SusanSunflower

I'll be happy enough if she has a glorious marriage to Talbot, a fetching new hairdo and is glowing, being 6 months pregnant if she'll get out of the way of Edith's happy ending. It is in Fellowes' self-interest to not utterly enrage Downton fans -- only those who absolutely loathe Edith will be fist-bumping over another failure to wed -- everyone else I think will find it needless cruelty heaped on the unloved middle Job-like child ...

Mary has almost no life except her love life ... but she's an equestrian marvel who we never saw riding for years on end ... and an old-hand at estate management because it's in the genes... She can be curious about Anna's opinion in a "how the other half lives" way and still only be interested in its novelty or contrast ... as one of the only not-rich not-family opinions she has access to and can command. She may "revere" Violet somewhat, but I suspect it's because of Violet's influence and power over both Robert and Cora ... identification with the most powerful person in the room, as ambitious people do. Anyone think Mary has ever bothered to read a single one of Edith's columns?

and I've always seen Edith as the more interesting character who had to find the initiative because little was handed her ... so she makes lemonade out of Strallen and leaps for the opportunity to write a column (which is well received) ... and then -- despite being conflicted about Gregson -- daringly decided to get closer ... Edith's actions have not always been admirable but she has experienced being jilted, being abandoned while pregnant, being overlooked and disparaged by her family ... and we're not even mentioning Patrick and Patrick's death and burned/fake Patrick and her gamely, volunteering in nursing and dealing with roomfuls of men who fairly terrified her. But then I always had great respect for Lavinia saving her father by outwitting Carlyle ... I don't find Mary the "more interesting" ... If she were to read a book I have no idea what that book might be ... if she had a friend, I wonder what hobbies or passions they might share ... Mary is not close to her mother, her mother-in-law, her sister or her Aunt ... she's not really "close" with Anna her servant ... It's not even that she's private or guarded -- I feel she not interested in their opinions about anything. She may be daddy's girl, but she's not really emotionally "close" to Robert either and at this point seems to consider him all-too-often as an obstacle to her ambitions. ...Tom will be her ally and facilitator ... not a competitor, not really, as long as Robert is alive. I've love to know more about what Edith writes and who she admires. I have doubts that Mary could articulate much of an opinion about anything ... more likely she'd offer some variation on whatever she'd heart Robert or Violet say ... or claim to have no opinion about such matters ...

yes, though in fairness, I doubt that Mary has put 2+2 together wrt Gregson's disappearance in Germany -- while trying to divorce his institutionalized wife and make an honest woman of Edith even BEFORE he knew Edith had a Marigold in the oven ...He wasn't going to marry her because she got pregnant, but because he want to marry her -- Anyway, Mary probably hasn't comprehended yet that Edith was essentially "widowed" by the man she loved while pregnant with Marigold ... that she held out hope but went through her pregnancy while alternatively hoping and grieving. Did Mary figure out Switzerland or was that explained to her -- or not even mentioned because she wouldn't care ... fwiw, yes, the lack of interest and extreme sympathy for Edith in Switzerland (and after return) has always bothered me ...

JF -- not a fan of improvisation ... not at all http://video.pbs.org/video/2169587369/

that cinches it -- I'd almost bet on Gregson's return ... so Marigold can be raised by her bio mom and dad -- her "forever parents" in her "forever home" my local humane society refers to adoptions as placing pets in their "forever homes" (since so many of them were relinquished after short stays with their original unprepared adoptive parents ... I think Fellowes is too much of a social conservative to let Little Marigold grow up with everyone thinking she's adopted ... hence -- magic wand ...

Similarly Tom as a chauffeur was responsible for keeping the cars in running order ... but while I remember him tinkering, I don't remember him being a "genius" and -- like his writing and his politics -- his interest in cars was pretty much never mentioned again ... and there have been innovations in the meantime, so his past skills (at whatever level) do not necessarily transfer to him being an "ace mechanic of raceway quality" -- one or the other of them -- preferably both -- should be hellishly clever with up-to-date skills as well ... I love the idea of them being terribly clever and having enviable skills ... and a whole circle of friends, acquaintance and even customers from various levels of society, etc. etc. etc. --much, much too.late I'm afraid. I guess I was also looking for another very reasonable reason for explain Mary's lack of enthusiasm .. your brand new husband has a hobby that terrifies you and costs a small fortune ... oh, and takes him away from home for days at a time in "manly" and lower-class company ... oh joy, but then I've seen Suspicion about a dozen times and it always terrifies me.

Thanks -- that would be good news ... because a 2-year gap could create a "magic wand" effect -- where literally any plot or character developed can be "defended" because of the time gap. ... next question -- Is Henry going to need Mary's financial support to keep up with his racing hobby? I gather he isn't bringing "wealth" to the marriage ... but will he then be a drain? For Tom and Henry to start a motor car business to finance his "hobby" -- i.e. become tradesmen -- might be as great a fall from on-high as as marrying a chauffeur or a middle class solicitor ... yes, it looks like a marriage from hell to me... and I'm very disappointed to hear how little chemistry was seen, romance was written into this "whirlwind" (for Downton) courtship... some mad sexual attraction (which we saw Mary was capable of back with Pamuk) would have gone a long way to make this a happier ending ...

I thought of Sarah that way -- as a "good British colonial" -- until there was shift as she accepted that she could do nothing or was not willing to do what she might wrt justice for Hari Kumar ... I was so shocked when we saw Hari, so many years later ... I think I thought he was dead or disappeared ... (I'm fuzzy on both the story and what I thought -- when I saw him I wanted justice for and then seeing nothing come of his having survived, just poverty -- despite his superior education and intelligence ... from wiki: as I recall that "delicacy" by Perron made me heartsick ... he never knew that he was not utterly forgotten.

How solid is the information that the Christmas Special will be 2 years from the end of S6E8? Everyone -- wanted and/or expected Fellowes to rise to the occasion in E8, but Mary's less than ecstatic marriage is a serious damper ... to which can be added so many unresolved plot threads, most obvious Edith and Marigold ... but also (and the list goes on and on) ... Changes made in two years can cover a lot of ground, but they can't add character/plot development -- only factoids -- Bates and Anna now have a toddler, George and Sybbie and Marigold are 2 years older ... a stray character may have died, been mourned and their death accepted... Room in E8 to add Pratt and Patmore "business" but not enough to properly dispose of Thomas ' future or Edith's love life ... "Suprises" and "wow finishes" may well end up looking like magic wand maneuvers, rather than clever story-telling ... If Edith and Bertie are actually to be shown getting married in the Christmas Special that means they apparently did not reconcile and wed in the intervening 2 years .... or Bertie has been wooing her for 2 years and is finally taking her to the altar.... feh. If the show were continuing I might be amused to find that Henry's a dreadful lush and bad-in-all-ways husband ... but I doubt that would make him interesting and I'm beyond wanting Mary to "pay for her sins" ... will she have one or two small wailing babies in tow? I'd love for Bates and Anna and Mrs. Patmore and Daisy and Carson and Mrs. Hughes-Carson to have all moved on to new lives ... even if the idea that all of them magically have the money to become "small business owners" rankles ... Thomas should have an equally nice nest egg via savings and theft and blackmail. ... oh nevermnd.

I don't know -- I was mostly struck by the different attitudes of the 3 generations of Brits depicted and their relationship to India and Indians (and each other) ... the first generation -- including Daphne Manners, Barbie and Lady Manners -- seemed to love India, at least some Indians and to be there "for the duration" as a positive force -- as teachers, nurses-- or just in service within the expat community, like Merrick. The next generation (the war wives) seem to have become less busily useful and purposeful and long both for their husband's return and England -- India is "duty" but without mission or affection for the place or the people. The young ones seemed even less engaged, like tourists. Merrick was able to rise in status dramatically over the years by virtue of his hard work and brutality I'm not sure that's what the miniseries or the books or the author intended ... I just found I liked the older generation and felt they liked and cared about India personally in a way that was lost to the second and third generation shown. This too may be a fairy tale -- I don't know what Indians thought or if they noticed any change in British attitudes over time -- checked Wikipedia -- the raj extended from 1858 to 1947. Gandhi returned from abroad and the cause of home rule rose in opposition in 1915 ... Although it's not acknowledged, just mentioned in passing, Merrick career success was a result of his "success" and job performance (which we know obliquely was brutal) ... I think It's possible that Merrick embodies Britain's colonial paranoia and "need" to control and exert (racist) domination / supremacy over India -- leading of course to disaster and -- via his double-life -- his murder... I'm not sure. I also noted everyone's utter inabilty or unwillingness to "deal" with Merrick's known brutality and bad acts -- While Daphne has no confusion about rejecting of Merrick (she sees what he is)... by the end, he has become a "member of the family" despite being deeply mistrusted, feared and even loathed ... but no one really is willing to admit what they know they know... only "delusional" Susan is clueless to the taint of suspicion on Merrick.

Actually I suspect Talbot is a race car driver because that was easier. Being a pilot would have required vast expense in research and stunt-doubles , plane rentals (care and feeding and security of same), that I would guess also wasn't something Fellowes wanted to research exhaustively ... early aviation -- like old locomotives -- has an avid and probably rabid following of enthusiasts. My grandfather was an early flier in WWI for the French ... it was expensive enough that to keep flying he became a mercenary in North Africa and as far as I know gave it up altogether when he returned to the United States. If Talbot were a flier, his character would have had to explain how he could afford such a hobby ... American barnstormers "put on shows" to pay for the privilege and were often, like Lindberg extremely skilled mechanics ... I'm guessing Fellowes had some personal reason for not making Henry an equestrian but I really cannot image what that could be... Has Dockery said if she "likes" her times in the saddle? Would her riding have stood up to scrutiny if there had been more of it? Does Goode hate horses?

yes, I was always surprised by the number of fights Mary and Matthew didn't have .... see also the remarkable lack of serious confrontation between Matthew and Robert ... If I had been Matthew, sparks would have flown and voices would have been raised ... nuf.

It might well be padding ... but it's odd. I wondered the same thing in past seasons as Carson became, if not a blimp, a rigid heavy old man -- while the actor playing him was often pictured trim and fit in shorts, an avid bike racer, irrc. What I wonder is WHOSE decision was it to age these characters/actors? It's the last season -- they will be going off to play other roles ... Carmichael has really been allowed to strut her stuff -- finally ... and it would be wonderful for Leech to have him remembered as trim and sexy ... it would be very good for Dockery to have some knock-down dramatic scenes (to show the world what she's capable of) ... See also the actor playing Carson -- unless he really wants to be a poor-man's Jim Broadbent or play butlers for the rest of his life.... Brendan Coyle's Bates is gonna be a daddy which helps make him seem at least potentially "potent" ... I was certain Violet was a goner two (or 3) seasons ago when she ballooned and had trouble moving about ... then -- voila -- all gone!! In short, if it's Fellowes deciding to make Leech look like that ... he's not doing Leech any favors. eta: When I was a kid, as I recall, actors in a final season were often given episodes centered around their character as a parting gift .... so that they could strut their stuff and impress the audience who was accustomed to only seeing a very limited part of their range.

Branson's weight has fluctuated before ... actually most of the male characters got significantly more stout as they got older ... yes, Matthew got the pudge as well. As did Violet ... only to get trim again later ... Coyle got very pudgy which made him look older and diminished his (long-standing) twinkle eyed sex appeal (which goes back decades). I remember it well ... it was either season 2 or 3 when our fiery Irish man began to look very domesticated ... Robert also got heavy and then got trimmer ... Carson was looking half embalmed last episode I saw last year. Violet got very very heavy and creaky two seasons ago (all padding) and then someone decided the character wasn't heading for the glue factory (Maggie Smith in Best Exotic Marigold Hotel was a shock) ... Still -- if they wanted Branson as a romantic figure ... I'm positive Allen Leech would have been happy, thrilled to work out and lose weight in preparation for whatever is next.

Their realization of THEIR TRUE FEELINGS could so easily be nudged if some stranger assumed they were a married couple .... That said, I think if they wanted Tom as a romantic partner for Mary, he'd have arrived home in fighting-shape, not pudgy. Before he left for America, I complained they'd made him into Robert's mini-me ... and many women are attracted to father figures ... iow, this could work ... but I just don't see the plump-school-boy look stirring anything in Mary except perhaps an impulse to make sure he gets enough to eat and a second piece of pie with dessert.

even some picking lint of the other's lapel or adjusting a stray lock of hair or a milk-moustache can signal "caring" -- because of a heightened sense of caring about the other's presentability and the intimacy of casually touching ... see also gazing at the doorway after someone has left the room... or watching their departure from an upstairs window ... I'm hearing nothing of the kind ... see also concern that the other got enough to eat, had a headache, is coming down with a cold or had a nasty delayed journey... see also concern about the other's child ... IOW, there are many many ways to say "I care"

yes, they have referred to each other brother and sister also -- significantly -- they live in the same house and such close proximity such "intimacy" is often a sexual attraction buzz-kill ... of course that doesn't apply to Downton where no one ever talks about such things or anything. in "foreign cultures" a widow was often provided for by her husband's brother and was often taken as a second wife ... the ban may have been a left-over of missionary influence of "things god-less foreigners do"

People who have been happily married usually remarry ... they like being married and not having a partner, being "unattached" feels less fulfilled, even incomplete. I've no doubt that Tom Branson will not only marry again but most likely be happily married again.

""“He knows his heart lies with the family, but he also wants his own way outside of the house. Maybe he’ll start to dip his toe into the world of romance again.”"" This really does not sound as if Branson is already pining or in love with anyone .... people in love are not "looking for romance" somewhere else -- they're either romantic towards their beloved or the relationship's priorities lie elsewhere (making a life together) .... It certainly sounds to me as if he ends up alone ... even recently disappointed by someone, but not heartbroken (having just lost the love of his life, the woman of his dreams )...

That would be much much nicer than a successful suicide attempt ... I just really don't see Thomas having a credible happy-ever-after ...

Why no speculation that the funeral is Thomas Barrow's? bringing together people who knew him? I haven't seen the various spoilers or all the various still photos ... it could provide a dramatic opportunity for an end to his story ... I can hope not ... but it just struck me as possible.

well, my unpopular opinion last season was to hope that the publisher returns from the grave ... maybe Blake could return from Poland ... maybe arm in arm ... holding mistletoe.

Fwiw, Tom has perfectly reasonable (even selfish personal reasons) for wanting Mary to marry someone he deems worthy of her and Downton ... He's emotionally invested in the whole family and the estates. I'm doubtful he would consider himself "worthy" of her hand -- even if he were desperately, madly in love with her -- which is not what I'm hearing described. It would have been a great drama to watch Tom -- madly in love with Mary -- being the good friend, good "brother" -- steering her towards happiness with someone else ... but that's not what I'm hearing described (Best Friend's Wedding, anyone?) . This all sounds very Noah's Ark -- everyone including Tom needing to be mated up -- two-by-two for there to be a happy ending. I'd even applaud a truly soapy drama in which both Mary and Tom are desperately concealing their TRUE FEELINGS ... Again, that's not what it sounds like -- Is that even a remote possibility? Tom -- sighing deeply and pining for Mary would be a pretty sight ... More Fellowes under-statement, under-development, tastefulness? Mary secretly pining for Tom, similarly.

yes, let's not mention George and Isobel ... and / or Mary and Isobel ... fatherless children and grieving women and the utter lack of developed relationship between any of them ... Even Cora and Isobel -- as mothers who have lost children -- might have been developed ... George is a prop that Fellowes forgets about most of the time .... I am always amazed at how shallow my understanding of what makes any of these people "tick" remains ... it's all dresses and dinners and rivalries ... Speaking of chemistry, though, I think Edith -- or rather Laura Carmichael -- has always had rather effortless chemistry with everyone (at least once Sybil died and stopped eclipsing her). Rosamund and Elizabeth McGovern together manage reasonably well in creating a sense that these characters are family members - rather than fellow passengers on a voyage ... Cora or McGovern as Mary or Edith's mother -- seriously not.so.much. eta: because I must -- Isobel would have been obvious person for Edith to have consulted at some point about her pregnancy.