SusanSunflower

But then Matthew never met the gloriously gorgeous Mr. Pamuk .... even he might have felt a tingle ... (Matthew was not "my type" but he grew on me ... and I gave both Dan Stevens and Michelle Dockery high praise for managing to make their stilted dialogue sound real-enough and spontaneous)

Agree -- Imagine the utter outrage if Robert had slapped Cora during the bedroom dust-up with Bricker or even just grabbed her wrist in anger (even by accident). Or simply vented spleen when Cora told him to stop beating the living daylights out of Bricker after sucker punching him. Actually, I really wished th Bricker had at least sustained a bloody nose, an unmistakable black-eye or been knocked unconscious so Robert would have had to deal with the consequences of yet another of his (he's a lord so it's okay) (he's a man so it's okay) "blind furies" (aka tantrums). Realizing that Edith was in the next room and Cora could have rung her bell/pulled her sash to summon aid if need be. Yes, Robert will likely forgive Edith and eventually "adore" Marigold (despite himself) when the time comes. How wonderful if he were genuinely outraged to have been kept in the dark -- umm, see also Cora when someone bursts her (#1 mom) bubble. Maybe Isobel could get a "family values" stiletto of the "The mother is always the last to know" type of told-ya-so my mother reserved for certain sanctimonious neighbors critical of HER no-rules mothering philosophy, when THEIR brow-battered children got knocked up. (The lack of face-to-face interaction Cora has with her daughters is quite extraordinary. It's as if she doesn't exist to them or they to her.) I admit I was rather hoping (yes against hope) that Cora would do more than "be flattered" by Bricker's attentions -- even though -- oh my -- that would be unthinkable.

Edith's best bet might be to find some artsy feminist collective where her bravery will be appreciated ... along with her writing and wit (yeah, I know) ..... and of course her money most of all (because Fellowes will make sure we all know what sort of phoneys those artsy fartsy folks really are!!! doncha know). ... Hey, I like that idea. I'm sorry to realize that we have seen the last of both Bunting and Bricker ... which means I guess that Cora goes back to being a battery run-down half-wit (better than a suffering in silence Cora or animatronic Cora, I think, ymmv) and Tom goes looking for love somewhere else ... maybe he could ... I guess not.... I think the priesthood didn't take widowers with small children in those days.... historians?

Bricker did not touch Cora. He did not touch her. She did not appear alarmed TO ME, surprised, but not alarmed. They were both fully clothed and remained so. I think he would have left after a few more protestations of his love ... Truly, much ado about very little, IMHO. She did not need to be "rescued" by the ridiculous (once again) Robert -- sucker-punching a man half his weight. Poor them, they won't have their painting vastly increase in value because Bricker put it in his book ... (Lucky Bricker didn't open Edith's door by mistake) ETA: Most men do not attack women they claim to want a relationship with, that they declare they love. Most men are not rapists. Most men accept that no means no, at least in my experience.

Actually, I'm not sure what we know about the sojourn in Switzerland, or I've forgotten. Was there a birth certificate? Was Marigold born in a hospital, duly registered to Edith as mother so that she could be adopted by the Swiss couple from Edith? Fellows tends to be both lazy and sloppy when it expedites his story-writing. See payments for Gregson's wife's upkeep and care, "the magazine" ... etc. Rosamund can "testify" and the Swiss can testify ... but I suspect Fellowes believes that the Drewes will accept this as part of their lowly status -- Who knows what Edith's arrangement with them is or what Mr. Drewe is doing with the monthly payments ... There are payments aren't there? So much money and "aristocracy" on one side, I expect Fellowes thinks the details don't matter. Did anyone actually talk about the Swiss couple legally "relinquishing" or did they accept Edith walking out with the baby?

I've been trying to figure out what Edith might possibly be writing her column about these days .... It's really too bad that she hasn't been writing about adoption laws -- for instance -- so we at home might gain some insight into little Marigold's legal status (and the rights of Edith and Mr. and Mrs. Drewe, if any). Did Edith have proper papers-in-order to bring Marigold across borders and home to Downton? I don't remember, however, without such paper, there's no DNA test invented yet to prove her parentage. Did the Swiss parents legally adopt? (If they didn't, one can only hope they learned the perils of 'informal adoption' and formally adopted their new replacement child). I feel it's inevitable that Edith and Marigold will co-habit and be "mother and child" fairly soon by whatever machinations -- and the Drewes will be left "holding the short end of the stick" -- maybe someone can very very generously buy them out so they're not lurking at every village fete.

I wonder if he also bribed Thomas .... and if there will be sequelae.

Tom wasn't the one who kept inviting Bunting ... it was the women folk, upstairs and downstairs, looking after his interests ... since god knows he's not going to find a lady friend UPSTAIRS at Downton. Robert has tutored Tom to be a right-little-gentleman he can take places without being embarrassed too often -- except Tom is 30 year old, a grown man, an Irish man, a Socialist and an ex-chauffeur and the widower of a fine lady and the proud father of their child. Robert "treats Tom like a son" and praises him for losing his rough edges, gaining good manners (most importantly), for being tamed, for being neutered. Robert never had a son. Lucky Tom. Sarah could see the contradictions. She believed what Tom said about himself and saw how much he clung to who he was, rather than who he has become. She believe he could be saved. Oh well, Tom (and the audience) can live happily ever after now ... not that any upstairs ladies are likely to be interested in him ...and we can all hope he's learned his lesson about those radical socialist types.

Since Anna's rape is still unknown by most people (even if there is suspicion of something having happened), I think it's a mistake for her to fail to mention that both Bates and Carson disliked Green for encouraging rambuntious and high-spirited behavior downstairs -- card games and wildness. I'm not even sure I'm remembering it correctly, but my memory is that Green raped Anna as revenge on Bates, something I'm not at all sure that Anna realizes. The idea that Bates or anyone would murder Green over his bad downstairs behavior is less intriguing / interesting than the idea that there's secret "bad blood" -- since that would be in the wrong direction -- hostility on Green's part towards Bates /Carson.

Hadn't Robert made it quite clear to both Bricker and Cora that he disliked Bricker and/or the attention Bricker paid Cora intensely??? I thought I remember some high-level unmistakable rudeness on Robert's part maybe 2 episodes back toward both Cora and Bricker ... Making her invitation for Bricker to come and stay over (with or without Robert present) and Robert's greeting at Bricker's arrival more mixed. Wasn't a photograph for the book supposed to be being taken??? anyone? Was Cora showing Robert her independence in inviting Bricker despite his distaste of the man or was she showing Bricker just how little she minded Robert's objections? FWIW, I think these ambiguities were intentional ... as were the parallels to Violet and the Prince (and Violet's concern about Isobel's happiness if she marries Merton) ETA: Funny to remember that Pamuk needed to bribe/blackmail Thomas to show him the way to and identify Mary's room and provide a key to unlock the door ... I remember being rather surprised that Mary locked her bedroom door, but then it made sense enough in a big house with lots of valuable, lots of staff and many wings. Pamuk as a guest had no way of knowing which was Mary's room.

Mixed signals -- I thought Bricker might well have gotten mixed signals from Robert about his wife's availability until the next afternoon when Robert returned ... People, even high class people, even long married people were sometimes promiscuous, sometimes had affairs ... and discretion ("Behave") was to avoid the servants' prying eyes and gossip ...

And I've found myself wondering who was supposed to be taking that precious photograph and when -- I don't remember seeing a camera or hearing that Bricker was an accomplished photographer (such photos require a lot of very controlled and careful lighting and heavy large-frame cameras) . Bricker may have had other happy alliances with other lonely wives over the years -- or -- he may just be a horndog (I really didn't see it) or Cora may have reminded him of his first love -- or -- the sight of her living her life on the shelf may have genuinely grieved him (see the Prince with Violet). I don't think Bricker is/was a terrible person but then "Room with a View" is one of my favorite movies.

To me, Cora looked in imminent danger of Bricker sitting down in that big armchair and demanding she listen to him about all the reasons she should leave Robert and come away with him ...

and what of Violet -- who entertained the Prince's courting and, I presume flitation, to the point of allowing him to suggest they run away together -- and accepted the fan -- which she felt the need to keep hidden from her husband -- testimony of how provocative her acceptance would appear. Violet at least was TEMPTED by the Prince's offer . My goodness, I do not need to defend Cora's "honor" when I suggest she enjoyed Bricker's attention and company at least at first -- and did not banish him despite his repeatedly bringing up his ardor towards her and, in fact, continued to meet with him, even alone. All of which she had every right to do in the expectation that she could control Bricker and was not "in danger" from him -- a reasonable expectation. Unilke others, I don't think Bricker was "about to rape her." Robert punishing Cora indefinitely merely reinforces HIS disregard of her as a person. Wasn't it let known in Season 1 maybe that Cora and Robert had an active and healthy sex life? Do they still? If Violet can entertain a Russian "suitor" why is it unthinkable that Cora might do so also ... she's not that old and Robert treats her like an inert placeholder, my wife, you remember her? No need to to listen when she speaks, much less resist the impulse to openly denigrate her opinion .. Is she now "sentenced" to exactly the privileged married life Violet wants Isobel to avoid in her second marriage, y'know as Violet suffered in her marriage? eta: Of course the Prince was a prince ... and Bricker's merely an art expert, practically in trade ... times they are a changin'

Agree Texas Gal, which made me suspect that Fellowes had not intended everyone (including Tom) to be loudly cheering her departure ... He managed to write the character so that 90% of the time (or more) we saw her at her worst. Remember when everyone "hated" Isobel?? But imho, Bunting's departure will in fact leave Tom very lonely and isolated. Even though he's become sufficiently "domesticated" that he no longer keenly feels or reacts to the slights and condescension, I think, in fact, her being "driven from Downton" shows him just how badly he'd be treated if he failed to self-censor or took up a cause. If he failed to speak in quiet tones, failed to accept the much less pronounced slights and rejections that were still evident to her. Heavens, if he failed to dress for dinner (as he used to do), Violet might proclaim him no better than a savage ...

I think during his time in London working for Mr. Squires was a time of freedom from prying eyes ... and I think his quiet life with his mother before the sinking of the Titanic may have been one of quiet freedom also from having to ask permission constantly, to be always aware of servants' eyes ... To go out to dinner with friends, take in a play, go to a pub ... middle class freedom to do as you please. There were only a few mentions from Lavinia of friends and socializing in London but I think I do remember they had friends, and Mr. Squires adored Matthew and was delighted at their engagement. So much simpler and less needlessly self-conscious and formal. Was it Isobel who last night, questioned something about the formal dressing for dinner only to be told that without proper attire they might as well be savages .... Indeed. Matthew and his beautiful honeymoon motor car ... with which he (alone or with Mary) just might run away for a weekend or even a week, though they never did of course. I wonder how much longer Robert will continue to give Cora "the silent treatment" ... eta: Yes, I think he thought that once "crisis mode" was over -- marriage, money, baby -- he would have arrived ... and he never really did.

I thought the whole triad of Mary forcing Matthew to accept Lavinia's father's money, then plow it all into Downton, and then still have to deal with both Robert and herself reminding him of his "place" and questioning his decisions wrt Downton because it wasn't really "in his blood" -- after Robert had apparently been incapable for some time of taking financial advice from his financial manager, or minding the store (wrt to the Railroad disaster and thing closer to home, the conditions of the tenants housing) including managing his estate manager ... It was all very eunuch-y, "Thanks for the bail out, thanks for marrying the difficult Mary, oh and thanks for the heir -- now sit down and shut up" -- Particularly when Mary would blow hot and cold to get her way. There was no indication until that last season when Matthew teamed up with Tom that the dithering and caviling would ever end. He had married Mary, plunged his good fortune into Downton, a baby was on the way and he was stuck, but good -- and there was never a flicker of restlessness, mental or physical, placid as a clear blue sky. Dull, dull, dull. No inner life at all, like most of the rest at Downton, but Matthew had known personal freedom -- being a lawyer in London, working for Lavinia's father, even being his father's son ...

Worse, I suspect they could have kept Stevens for another season or even a few episodes, imho, if the writing had been better and if Matthew were not so horribly rut-bound with no prospect of breaking free. That last season was god-awful repetitive and dull, little skirmishes with Robert , little tiffs and making up with Mary. I despaired and cheered when it was announced. Sort of how I'm feeling about Tom currently. He looks like Robert's adoring self-satisfied little son too often. Glad the repetitive tiffs with Bunting are over, but with her departure, what's up with Tom?

For such an experienced actress with really quite an impressive resume, in Downton McGovern so often appears to have no idea what her Cora is thinking or feeling. She often just google-eyes briefly and settles into defeat. In the scene in the bedroom with Bricker, she appeared an utter blank to me, negative space -- not angry, not frightened, not flattered, not happy-to-see-ya, not afraid of Robert, not angry when Robert pretty much cold-cocked Bricker for no reason (Really, Bricker was trying to leave nor was Cora visibly distressed)) Robert's "explosive attack" on Bricker seemed to come out of nowhere -- he had Bricker on the ground and was choking him, while Cora waved her arms about, and tended to the much-too-easily-put-off Edith. Then standing at the window watching Bricker's departure, how? wistfully, mournfully? I saw no good-bye and good-riddance in her countenance.

I prefer Clarkson because he's not a prig and he's relaxed and he genuinely likes (as opposed to venerates) Isobel and I trust Clarkson, having dealt with the obnoxious and stubborn Isobel over the years, will not suddenly feel betrayed when that side of her personality is again provoked. They survived the War and the Hospital together ... Merton has no idea, and I like Isobel.

I think Bunting could be a very good match for Tom and she's independent and has a skill -- teaching -- that could serve them both well in settling elsewhere, anywhere. He's still got his motor mechanic skills. I suspect she's lively and opinionated wherever she goes, but probably not antagonistic except towards people she, in fact, dislikes and doesn't care about. She can see how Tom is treated, even if he can't, how he holds his tongue and is so very polite when he does talk, acts subserviently towards "the family" and ever so slightly awkward with the servants (and they with him). How long was he their chauffeur? How long have they had to get over that? I'd have to rewatch past episodes but I think she also registers the "shock and surprise" that just her presence upstairs generates -- every single time -- as in "What is SHE doing up here?" Even without Robert's bad manners. "What is that middle-class ordinary person doing in our midst?" We really didn't see any development of a relationship between the two that I remember (nothing comparable to the endless pointless, content-free garage interludes with Sybil) and so we saw no meeting of minds platonic and/or intellectual, but they've been somehow "linked" for a couple of years I think. I'm always shocked at how very tiny she is. (She was written to be abhorrent, but I think even that's been exaggerated by our identification with Robert, and Cora and Downton). Run Tom Run.

yes, and I even think that Bricker took Robert's welcome of him (tepid as it was) and the acknowledgement that he was going to be out-all-night as well as Cora's admonition to "behave" (she said giggling) could easily be "don't set tongues wagging" ... as suggesting a rendezvous. Middle aged married of their set were rather notorious about extracurricular sex. Remember Gosford Park -- both HIM and HER ... Cora standing at the window watching his car drive off was a bit too wistful for someone whose marriage has just been jeopardized .... It would have been interesting if Fellowes had not timed Robert's arrival just-so. Much more interesting if he had arrived after Cora had, in fact, dispatched Bricker -- who it must be said, never touched her or even "cornered her" not really. She did not look at all alarmed. Too bad Robert did not knock him unconscious or bloody him and have to deal with the consequences of his absurd behavior, at least among the servants. Such a baby.

"Not leave when asked" is one thing ... even being allowed to enter is another ... and those were very very different times (as we are shown constantly). Did Bricker think that she was using him as a cat's paw to reignite Robert's interest in herself? Or did he just, as they say, want to see how far he could get? She's not a victim. Nothing bad happened to her. I'm saying, those tactics likely worked for Bricker before -- He may have thought Cora was being "demur." Remember Mary's protestations when Pamuk unlocked and opened her door?

Yes, Bricker has probably provided that "personal service" to the wives of other men with grand homes filled with unappreciated or underappreciated artwork. Poor little wives, like Cora, left all alone, unstimulated, unappreciated and -- in middle age -- quite under-loved by husbands whose interests lie elsewhere. Hard choices for the recently-emerged-from-emotional-coma Cora being a naïve tease (not from what we saw in London) or a deliberate jilter, having (like Mary) given Bricker a vista of green-lights all in a row only to pull some girlish -- "gosh, what a night." -- and then feign hurt-feelers indefinitely at the idea that Robert could possibly imagine she had invited Bricker to her bedroom ... All she needed do was latch the bloody door.

I think the Mary/Tom stuff is based on the fact that they are now "sharing" intimacies which is something we have not seen either do much of with anyone ever. With various reasons to try to manufacture a tie-up-the-loose-ends in season 6 and/or 7, if the presumed end of series involves "happily ever after" for both Tom and Mary separately ... given the glacial progress of courtship in Downton-land and given the disappointing prospect of Tony, Blake, Ms. Bunting (and that's not even to mention Edith's future happiness) ... matching Tom up with SOMEONE KNOWN saves a lot of character development machinations, matching Mary up with SOMEONE KNOWN ditto, and also Edith .. etc. -- the apparent alternative being introducing 2-3 new characters and rushing the courtship ... Perhaps Mary and/or Edith can get knocked up and rushed to the altar - if need be. Tom can stay single, as far as I care, so can Edith. As the Keeper of the Downton Flame, having a husband really would be of benefit for Mary. Does Tom have any money of his own that we know of? I'd guess he's paid some sort of salary or percentage ... but do we know?