SusanSunflower

Tediously, Blake may be back on her dance card (temporarily) if Mary goes into full Scarlett O'Hara mode being unable/unwilling to accept that he's not that into her. Her look of surprise and abandonment in E4 (I think) when Blake declared he was off to bed was priceless. However, I think the idea of Mary pursuing an uninterested Blake is unlikely to be developed by Fellowes as both unthinkable and unflattering to his precious. I think there will be someone else ... where/when I have no idea. (totally unspoiled in this regard). I'd really hate for Mary to get her into any sortof romantic relationship with Tom ...that Mary-Daddy-Mary's Man triangle would be even more fraught for Tom than it was for Matthew (who had no child in the game).

For no reason at all, I feel certain that Blake will have told several people -- there were telephones and Blake is a social butterfly -- so even after that oh-so public dinner with Mary (after that oh-so public run-in at the fashion show) -- I suspect he'd be eager to spread the news that Tony was a bad lay ... and Mary was sick of him. Tony may just be one of those 'principled' men who do not accept defeat as a point-of-honor but more likely a competitive person who feels humiliated to have failed to win the prize anyone-and-everyone who knows him knew he was seeking. Mary is cold and pretty much heartless ... but he and we knew that.

All this talk about Daisy's revival as an "interesting character" made me realize I had forgotten her husband's name, William Mason. He was among my favorites as was the actor, who like Daisy seemed fresh and promising. Apparently after a part in "Anna Karinina" (which I vaguely remember) -- poof .. Downstairs has seen a lot of young men come and go, but to me William Mason was special. Actor: Thomas Howes http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2765309/

I'm trying to remember. I think each of the servants individually is beholden to Robert and Cora and Violet ... let me count the ways .... Bates, because Grantham hired him and kept him on despite (too numerous to count) ... Thomas ditto to the too numerous to count nth power ... Moseley would have gone to war had it not been for Violet and he was forgiven the incident with the wine (he's mostly beholden to Carson), Mrs. Pattimore received her eye operation, Baxter lied about a criminal past and was forgiven. Tom was "accepted" despite seducing and marrying the Earl's daughter. I think that Carson, Mrs. Hughes, Anna and Daisy have neither been forgiven or received upstairs generosity (at least as far as I can remember.).

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/29/downton-abbeys-future-in-doubt-after-julian-fellowes-fails-to-commit lots of speculation -- interestingly it sounds like Fellowes' American show may be on the shelf as well. ... beware: itty-bitty Tom spoiler Leave them wanting more is always better than the alternative ... and future Christmas reunions (of all sorts of shows) seem to be a British tradition -- probably unthinkable to American television culture.

People were leaving service (and the agricultural sector) and had been leaving service in significant numbers to go work in the factories where they ONLY had to work 12 hours a day and had some privacy and control over their lives and the freedom to quit one job and take another better one as their skills increased. They were happy for the freedom to live in bare-basic housing, have lovers, get married, have babies, free to eat their own cooking or dine at the pub (and drink at the pub) as long as they could pay. I'm guessing some balked at going back into harness after the war. See: Gaskill's North and South much earlier. The shortage of trained and/or qualified applicants has been mentioned, even at a grand house as Downton.

I liked and appreciated this much more on re-viewing. There's a lot of texture to the relationships that I had largely missed or resisted (particularly conflict between Elizabeth and Darcy) that's well developed and then well resolved. It was disconcerting to have Darcy (Matthew Rhys) "upstaged" by the stunningly gorgeous Wickham (Matthew Goode) with those blue-eyes (oh my) and Fitzwilliam (all lanky sun-kissed charm); and then to have Elizabeth (Anna Maxwell Martin) overshadowed in the physical beauty department by Jane, Lydia, Georgiana and sundry other young women. (For some reason, on my TeeVee, the color was "better" and she looked much less washed out and/or made sallow by the green costumes they put her in.)There were so many characters barely touched on that I really didn't remember them, having failed to register them on first viewing. I'm not sure I'd watch it a third time, but I might well on some dreary weekend afternoon. Yes, it probably could have been a franchise.

oddly enough -- others saw faberage egg(s) https://www.facebook.com/DowntonAbbey/posts/914671738573432 It would be glorious for the Granthams to find out that they had knock-offs (like everybody else). Yes, we were told Violet's frame (that I guess is also one of the items mentioned above) was Faberge. (Just rang a mental bell that there had been discussion of eggs appearing in the prior episode)

I bailed early, doubt I'll try again ... it was the oh-so arch moment with all the women smoking and gossiping, iirc, about what a catch the vicar was considered to be ... ....

Gosh, didn't Lavinia somehow save Mary's bacon ... why yes she did ... Yes, UO, I liked Lavinia and thought she'd be a much better match for Matthew ... oh -- is this an UO, I don't really "like" characters based on how relatively attractive they are, rather how "alive," interesting and stimulating they are. YMMV. Blake over Gillingham -- G's much more classically handsome. Carlysle was a rotter, a real big-league moustache-twirler -- infintiely more dangerous than Thomas could ever be. Thomas is spoiled for me because of the absurdity of his still being employed much less allowed on the grounds.

Yesterday, I was wishing Carlisle would come back -- Mary (and we) should be so lucky... but then I remembered how "badly" he took her rejection ...

me too: because then all of Gillingham's anger might have been directed at Blake (although what Blake would think after he learned that Mary had spent the preceding week in G's bed, I don't know, except I suspect he would think that G was an absolutely abysmal lay.) What G is going to think when he hears of Mary meeting up with Blake at a fashion show, and having dinner together (yes, that same dinner) the night before she dumped him ... much less if Blake prematurely blabbed to friends about G's impending status of "ditched" -- Seriously bad form

JAP -- Jewish American Princess doesn't ring a bell? followed by BAP -- Black American Princess JAP seen currently in GIRLS -- http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/revolution-of-a-stereotype-what-s-a-jewish-american-princess-today-1.437064

As I understand it, blaming the Treaty of Versaille in 1919 for WWII was part of the general rehabilitation of Germany's image after two world wars -- and spread the blame for the failure of the post-WWI leaders at Versaille to forge a lasting peace. WWI ended in an armistice (rather than a defeat) which was not terribly satisfying for many of those who lived in countries devastated by the fighting , not only casualties but the destruction of infrastructure, like railroad lines and roads, munitions left in agricultural fields turned battle grounds. Germany's infrastructure was largely unscathed -- which was why they were "made to pay." There are revisionist views about just how much of this blame is based in reality. Still being rehashed. ETA: for conservatives and isolationists, blaming Versaille became proxy for blaming Wilson and his idealism, League of Nations, etc.

We were subjected to episode after episode of tensions growing between Matthew and Robert and then Matthew demurred because it would have "spoiled" his relationship with Mary -- you can call it something else, but Mary controlled Matthew's relationship with Robert ... eta: He was supposed to be Robert's equal ... no, not hardly, with Mary's support always inconstant, usually ending up siding with Robert (for emotional/personal reasons)

I never understood why Matthew accepted being p*ssywhipped by Mary and disregarded by Robert when he was the one who began the process Robert could not face -- setting Downton to rights -- utterly apart from Lavinia's money role in Saving Downton. Matthew was a lawyer -- he studied and trained, apprenticed, proved himself under supervision -- he could and did read financial balance sheets, productivity reports. He was able to consult and disagree with the lawyer and financial manager (who let Robert lose Cora's fortune) and the estate manager who was ... I don't remember ... incompetent? corrupt? ineffectual? -- remember the unpaid rents?

As I recall, it took most of season one for people to realize that Sybil -- not Mary -- was "the beauty". I recall realizing this a bit early in the game and being told that Sybil was nothing special. Sybil and Tom were very different in the first seasons -- young and feisty towards each other -- they were not yet "in love" for a while, that was to slowly dawn on each of them (Sybil quite reluctantly as I recall) separately and at different times. Tom didn't want to even be attracted to the underaged daughter of his boss. Sybil enjoyed having someone to talk to who treated her and her views as intelligent. She sought him out platonically for a long time. (Much more nuanced character development back then). From Season 2 on, Tom and Sybil became duller and duller, endless platonic meetings in the garage with longing looks, going nowhere -- it became a drag and many were actively hating on both of them for being tedious. Currently, Branson is back to his well-fed and growing staid look. I like him and his character better about 20 pounds lighter (he's done this before, camera/costume/diet - who knows). Bates/Coyle seems lighter, without particular explanation. Carson looks about to blow (since actor is an athlete guessing that's deliberate but with his "heart scare" a few seasons ago, there should be concern, particularly with his temper). The women are all ageless and unchanging, except Violet who last season (or the one before) was looking much heavier (less mobile, less active?) and now looks much thinner and vivacious (again, no reason given -- she may not like walking about town, but she's not winded or needing to be rescued). Vagaries.

Ugh, what has Tom become? In the final scene, with Mary and Isis and Grantham as Robert said, "no, no I"m not against progress, I just want it done the right way to preserve the beauty of all this!!" -- Who's going to quarrel with that because who can quarrel with that? But Tom is standing there like he thinks Grantham is a man of vision and wisdom, when frankly he should know by now that Grantham can be eloquent to get his own way. Next, comes bullying and tantrums. Grantham always has Mary in his corner, Mary's final vote. It's amazing how little skepticism Tom shows in response to Robert's blustering ego tripping. Sarah Bunting caused Grantham to have a total meltdown at dinner in front of guests??? What a baby he is. See also his rudeness towards Cora and Mr. Bricker. I thought everyone at table was embarrassed enough by his dragging Daisy and Mrs. Pattimore up from the kitchen on a moment's notice to .... prove a stupid point... which failed. Even Violet looked embarrassed for him. If Tom's going to be leaving or even just threatening to leave (again), the seeds of this discontent are not visible. He reacts to Robert (and most of the rest of the family, see accepting their endless matchmaking with Bunting) like an employee, in all things. Unwilling to upset the applecart by being honest. Sad.

Gillingham and Mary had been courting in Mary's cold sort of way for 2 years, as I recall. Gillingham had made it clear he was "goal oriented." He was willing to take it as slow as Mary insisted on (because she's a control freak who controls people as best she can) and, despite glacial progress, Gillingham saw the end of this endless process when she agreed to go away for a week -- succumbed to his charms, as it were -- offered herself to him -- with plenty of looks acknowledging she was about to accept his proposal for marriage -- necessary for announcement and wedding plans. This wasn't a shout-from-the-rooftops moment. I'd have liked to see Mary and G on the morning after the first night. Mary was not cold or seething or much of anything -- rather bored or tired or distracted (about to go home and resume her life). Fine if she decided to break up with him, but in public, in the middle of the day, while walking? No, late afternoon invitation to some private place. Tea or a cocktail and some sort of a regretful "It's me, not you. You're too good for me." well no Mary would never say that. To get dumped for no reason but "I changed my mind." Gillingham said he had wanted them to spend a week together to talk and make love, to become genuinely intimate. While there little to indicate that they'd become soul-mates, there was also little to indicate it had truly gone badly, that she had been put-off, distant, withholding, sexually unresponsive or that they had quarreled over petty things or that she had found him boring ... I wondered that he had not found her tedious and dull on prolonged contact, but apparently not.Anyone who is "broken up with" after two years has a lot of explaining to friends and family, even casually. To not know why -- Is there another man? Was the sex THAT bad? are not unreasonable questions. The likely match of such an eligible bachelor who has been off the market for a year or more will be common knowledge. Mary behaved callously and coldly.

It's hard to read Violet's motivation. Isobel's grandchild is at Downton -- which as far as I can tell -- with Fellowes translating -- would appear to matter to her not at all. She'll care more when George is in school, perhaps, reading, talking and thinking. If Isobel married very well, Violet might deign to visit; which she would not do if Isobel married Dr. Clarkson and stayed in Downton (no reason, no big house). Clarkson's a great match -- except his track record as Violet's pet doctor suggests he is weak. I think Isobel knows this. Since Isobel appears midway between Violet and Cora in age, perhaps she simply does not want Isobel to retire from life prematurely, as she did. My impression from Violet's demurral wrt to the Prince and learning her husband's "true nature in time" was , in fact, her marriage was quite unhappy. She did not learn "his true nature" in time and at least part of the Prince's attraction was because she longed to leave ... the frame was a firm reminder that if she did, she would never see her children again. (It was very very long ago.) I think she feels somewhat guilty towards the Prince's (now missing) wife whom she treated like inconvenient furniture. Perhaps we will learn more, but I'm guessing the wife was aware that she had captured her husband's heart.

I don't like Gillingham but he really was blindsided. He may not wear his heart on his sleeve, but damn, he jilted what'shername for her, only to be publically humiliated by this. He believed they were engaged, just shy of public announcements to family, friends. Her consenting to a tryst (or even possibly weekend) might be a test-run, but a whole week -- a whole week spent together and she never gave him a clue. (Imagine being married to someone like that!) Pretty heartless and for her to suggest she had a sudden change of heart without taking the care to explain it quite thoroughly (intimately) is absurd. Of course he thinks she has cold feet and will change her mind. They spent a whole week talking and making love. Her heart may have been saying no-no-no, but her eyes and demeanor did not give her true feelings away. I had liked Blake better, but now I'm doubtful... IMHO, it's going to end up being someone else. Mary needs another boy-toy she can wrap around her finger (and emasculate) like she did Matthew. I pity the lucky fellow. I was sorry that the policeman said so clearly they were observing Gillingham's flat wrt Greene. I had sudden hope that they were watching Gillingham's house because of Gillingham. I don't have to "like" Gillingham to feel strongly that Mary is badly in need of a comeuppance.

I've never understood the sack-dress because while it can look fetching standing up, it tends to balloon or drape awkwardly when seated .... it may or may not look good while walking, and all that unbound fabric is prone to wrinkle unattractively if clutched. I love the beading and the decoration, but they often look like nightgowns -- and I think they were rather supposed to -- and, worse, they look chilly to wear, particularly in big houses.

Yes, even today in the Charlie Hebdo fall out was the fact that a cartoonist published a blurb about Sarkozy's son converting to Judaism prior to marrying his Jewish bride with the note "He'll go far!" -- when it wasn't true ... somehow this false-factoid was considered humorous because: Jews, ambition ... I don't know what else. It wasn't true. The family objected, the cartoonist (this was not a cartoon) was asked to apologize and he refused and was fired. Cause was given as antisemitism ... blah blah blah, he sued and it was judged unlawful dismissal and he got money. The fabrication of this "to make a joke" to disparage the President's son's character .... huh? They do things differently there about a lot of things, but that seemed to me to be extreme reach by the cartoonist to be offensive / witty.

Exactly, even if, as I suspect we will find out, Baxter has known about Thomas' "problem" since he was a wee boy and has grieved over his plight as a gay man and rationalized his horridness to her ... nah, he's a jerk ... I'm sorry.

... are we forgetting that there were (reportedly) rumors (reported by Rosamund?) of Mary's involvement with Pamuk resulting from Edith's letter (though there was no investigation of the circumstances of Pamuk's death) resulting in some vague sort of smudging/soiling of her presumed impeccability? Yes, it was a million years ago.. followed by a happy marriage and her husband's tragic blameless death ...but still, Back-on-the-Market Mary's previous vague poorly-remembered, demi-scandal all forgotten or not?