nara

This episode was brutal, but a good reminder of how awful things really were for slaves. The punishment was graphic, but sometimes you have to see things as they really are to appreciate them. It was also a good reminder of how people can maintain a good self-image of themselves, while doing morally repugnant things. Jocasta (love the name, BTW) seems to rely heavily on Ulysses and puts a great deal of trust in him. She probably thinks he has a great life, and he probably does in comparison to other slaves. However, he's still a slave. Not that I want to see anything bad happen to him, but I really wonder what would happen if Ulysses were the one they wanted to punish...Would she stand up for him? I thought it was interesting that, even in those times, Quakers were speaking out against slavery and other abolitionists existed too. Also a great reminder of how the system was stacked against people who wanted to not own slaves. I was not aware of those things. The reckless gene seems to run in Jamie's family too. Leaving Jamie an estate after reconnecting for a few days? Seems quite foolish to me.

I actually like the idea that there are these mystical places around the world and that knowledge of them is pre-historic I liked it too. The irony of the idealized America next to the brutal reality of the early days (and even modern days) of this country made sense to me. They've used modern music before, and as long as they do it sparingly, I'm okay with it.

I think it’s probably due to translating novels into a tv show. The show runners seem reluctant to sacrifice “events” that happen in the books for moments of characterization. I feel the same way about the sex scenes. I was wondering about why Jamie talks so much during sex and someone told that it’s because he has all these great lines during sex scenes. Apparently, when they consolidate those scenes they are reluctant to sacrifice the dialogue that fans like. As a result, he talks alot

I have been worried about Fred Thursday's fate since season 2. After all, in all stories, the hero(ine) has to move forward without his/her mentor at some point. Plus, there's such an air of melancholy about this show, that it will be a tragic fate whenever it does happen. So I was happy to see him live to another day, but I did not expect Fancy's death at all. In fact, I'm rather sad that the 2 youngest characters are gone. The show needed fresh blood to enable Morse to start rising to the leadership role he'll eventually have. That being said, maybe a spinoff or one-time movie is possible with Trewlove at the Yard?

I think the point was that he probably didn’t come out and ask for the kidney like that. Perhaps he mentioned needing a kidney and she (already on edge) interpreted it as a demand. Agreed. There’s been a lot of complaining on this board alone about how repetitive her story is. re: Anton, I like that we’re seeing the wit and maturity expected of a Princeton hopeful.

In my crackpot theory, he's in on it. I would not put too much importance on my comment, because it was probably my way of dealing with the shock of the female lead being killed off.

Incredibly sad episode. Cole's range of emotions was interesting to watch. And the moment he collapsed and got sick on hearing the news was really well acted in my opinion. I'm starting to like Anton, too. He's going to get one hell of an admissions essay out of this road trip. I can't decide if I want a murder mystery or for Alison to have faked her own death to start fresh or a straight suicide.

I laughed at the “looks” part too, but she’s not wrong about him being treated differently. Also, given that teachers are still mostly women (I think) Noah would stand out as a good looking man. It is unfair, but he just got a death sentence, so he may not be rational. Ultimately, that neighbor girl will be the one to get pregnant so I guess that will work out for everyone. I was afraid that he would have an affair with Whitney (no evidence, just because a fertile womb is needed) so this seems like a better option.

Cole may not be able to bust him, but he can still beat him up or shoot him for robbing him and drawing on his face

I only have experience with 1 mentally ill person (schizophrenia), but after 2+ years off her meds, she was pretty lucid after a few hours back on them. So on this case of Carrie, they may not have felt that keeping her on meds was critical for a trade. I don’t think Geneva convention would apply since she is not a prisoner of war, but rather, a “spy”... I disagree. My schizophrenic friend had the same expression after months off her meds.

Doesn’t Michael have a brother we haven’t met? Or am I making that up? Perhaps this is his brother who is working with Rose and pretending to be him? either way, I gasped really loudly at this twist. First time since Game of Thrones went on break, so well done!

Great episode. One of the few where I didn’t feel the length. The cake reminded me of The Help and the terrible awful chocolate cake—-don’t eat anything sent by someone who hates you. Luckily that wasn’t the plot here. @Chaos Theory, I didn’t know about the Twitter reaction to Kim Kardashian’s robbery. I do remember thinking it was very fortunate that she hadn’t been raped, but I didn’t realize people were actually wishing it on her. Disgusting. I honestly don’t know what I would do if given the power to smite people I don’t like, but I hope I’d do the right, humane thing. I immediately thought of the people who post trophy hunting pictures and get a violent backlash...

I don’t think it’s right that the 2 pedophile characters were made to fight to the death. However, I am concerned that you think that pedophilia and homosexuality should be treated the same way in terms of public opinion. At least, that’s how your comments read to me. Also, I think you’re completely mistaken in the notion that watching child pornography is not hurting anyone. One, it creates an audience for the posters. I am sure that they, like everyone else, keep track of views and likes for what they post. Seeing interest in what they post motivates them to post more. Two, any person who has been the victim of revenge porn would likely say that knowing pics of them are out on the internet forever continues the trauma for them. That being said, we don’t actually know if Kenny was looking at porn or pics of fully clothed kids, since they did not show us or specifically tell us. However, his reaction and his mother’s seems to suggest the former. I do think his willingness to kill himself rather than killing the other man does speak well about him. It’s unfortunate that he is getting a potentially worse punishment than the other pedo, who showed no remorse. I don’t think Hector was meeting an underage girl. The “punishment” seemed to be based on the crime and he was not punished like the 2 pedos. I do think he was lying about the prostitute and Mindy is someone known to him and his wife. He had bought lingerie and that suggests it not being someone he would pay and not the first time. The way his wife said Mindy suggested it was someone she knew. However, he may get pegged as a pedo if that annoying woman remembers Kenny when she sees him on the news and tells people he was associating with a robber/murderer/pedo. With regard to the comments that Kenny could claim the malware planted the photos, I don’t think that would work. Although that is a plausible story, the leaked video and other data would alert the police to investigate him, and their tools would be sophisticated.They would get a warrant that would enable them to search his computer and find photos that predate the malware.

I loved this episode. I guess watching it in 2017 made it much more believable than when it originally aired.

PM was forced to have sex against his will. Regardless of who was penetrating whom, most people would probably consider that rape. The poor pig was also raped. The PM actor was fantastic. Will have to look for him in other, hopefully more cheerful, stuff. I don’t think anyone would have wanted him to commit pedophilia, regardless of the outcome for Susannah. The price would be too high. Unfortunately for the pig, animals are valued less than humans so people were fine with that tradeoff. Now, incest with a sibling or an adult child might have been considered in the middle but I am glad that they didn’t go there. I also assumed that there was a political motivation behind the incident.

I don't think there was time for her to think of that idea between finding out that Brianna was at risk and the showdown in the cave. I do agree with everyone who has said that there should have been a plan (like advertising in a specific newspaper every year on a certain date) to let Brianna know she was okay. I think she was channeling Brianna, so I think the prophecy may still be in play. An episode or 2 ago, I posted about which revolution they would get involved in. Now, it's looking more and more like the American Revolution. In fact, I think that Claire will somehow be the cause of the Revolution.. I think that Claire did not have the same relationship with John as did Jamie. She would not have that immediate trust in him to go to him. I also loved the wig thing! I actually was thinking they'd better kiss one last time in case she gets drawn back to the future. Was happy when they did that. I was glad to see Claire make the connection with the skeleton. Someone on the board had predicted it was Claire's skull, which might also have been interesting. I wonder what progress Joe made with that skeleton. No way, our girl not only can't stay out of trouble, but she's likely to be the cause. Perhaps she inadvertently suggests to people that they should dump the tea in the harbor. ***************** I thought this episode was very visually beautiful. I hope they submit it for a Emmy for cinematography (or whatever the equivalent is for television). I especially liked the dance scene. Just after I was thinking about how it reminded me of the ladies in the first episode, they intertwined the images. Beautiful. I though the storm was a bit CGI-ish, but still beautiful. I liked the underwater scene, despite agreeing with people on the issues of the water being so clear, when it had just been so turbulent. I enjoyed Geillis's interpretation of events--that Claire was always after her! Interesting way of looking at things, and cannot say I blame her. I wish she hadn't died because I felt like the threat to Brianna should have lasted longer. So what's the deal with the prophecy? I wonder if the Scottish king will turn out to be an American president with Scottish ancestry. Brianna would likely still be alive in our present day, but perhaps the prophecy is meant to come true after our present. If Diana Gabaldon had not written these books years ago, I would swear they were keeping current with the recent Scottish independence vote and one that may come again in the future. I hope they don't just drop the prophecy. I actually fast forwarded the love scene--boring and anticlimactic (no pun intended--okay, maybe a little). My wishes for the new season: a plot for Fergus and Marsali, return of Murtagh, Mrs. Fitz immigrates to America and sets up a B & B, we get to see the look on Laoghaire's face when Jamie and Claire pay her off and are officially done with her, we find out what's up with Brianna and Roger, John Grey finds love (very discreetly) and stops mooning over Jamie., Jamie and Willie reunite, Ian apprentices with someone in a relatively safe and stable occupation and stays out of trouble.

Great catch on Abernathy! I completely missed it. That, combined with the idea that the bones Joe examined were those of Geillis, opens up some interesting possibilities. It would be great if Joe were a bigger character than he appeared to have been.

I hope we see Geillis’s reaction when she realizes that if she had just stayed in the 1960’s she could have had a chance to kill Briana and bring about the prophecy. Of course, she would never have known about it.

Geillis F-ing Duncan! That was a twist. (But why is her hair now blonde?) I am so glad to have her back. Can she please have brought Mrs. Fitz with her as her cook? I really loved her. And Lotte Verbeek is a good sport, handling the blood bath with finesse. I'm glad she clarified if was goat's blood. Also nice to see Lord John Grey again so soon. I am not a Jamie/John shipper, but I thought the sexual tension was crackling in the scene where they reunited. Of course, it will be handy to have a governor friend who can pardon Jamie and end the fugitive status forever...or at least until he and Claire inevitably get involved in the American Revolution or the French Revolution. Glad we saw the point of the preacher and his sister. predicting a future romance between Willoughby and the sister. A lot of coincidences of meeting people again. Or perhaps the point is that souls are linked to each other. The slave market was hard to watch, but not nearly as graphic as it could have been. Very thankful for that. Was that slave trader really going to jerk off the slave (whose name I could not follow) in public? I'm glad Claire stopped it. And I thought her shock at becoming a slave owner to be pretty normal. It's something she never thought she would ever be. As for the prophecy, clearly Brianna must be the 200 year old baby--right? She was conceived in the 18th century and born in the 20th. And they cannot just forget about Claire and Jamie's daughter. I wonder if Claire will go back to the future to rescue her at some point. Perhaps as a season finale? I want Fergus and Marsali to have a storyline!!!

Actually, I think it may be a deterrent to have a man there. Even in today’s world women get advice like “tell them you have a boyfriend” or “wear a ring” as a way of fending off unwelcome advances. Sadly, some men will respect boundaries only if the woman is “the property” of another man. That being said, if they made a deliberate plan to attack her, he might not be able to protect her, but he might be able to hold them off until help arrives from the other men in the ship. And I agree, the ship society, like other societies, depends on the fundamental concept that people are basically decent.

Part of the problem is that Jamie still sees Fergus as a little boy instead of a man with his own responsibilities and priorities and judgment. It’s not unusual for someone in a parental role. It also explains why he doesn’t take the courtship seriously.

I thought Jamie’s selfishness made sense in this case. He has been seasick, so he’s physically weaker than usual. Plus, his wife, with whom he was recently reunited after 20 years, has been taken by English soldiers. He has seen a lot of the bad side of the English, excepting John Grey. He isn’t his usual self. As for Claire’s safety, he absolutely was right to be worried. The same way men were talking about Marsali on the Artemis is the way men might be talking about Claire on the Porpoise. I bet they talked about Annika (sp?) the same way. It’s not about the individual woman’s beauty—it’s about them not having had sex for weeks or longer. Now, talk doesn’t mean they would actually rape a woman, but who wants to wait around to find out?

I'm glad that Fergus realized that his first loyalty is now to Marsali, not Jamie. I hope to see him continue to assert himself in that way. Although the death of Elias was predictable, I still cried. And I know it wasn't unusual for young boys to work on ships, but it was still heartwrenching to realize that a child was doing such hard work. Is it just me or does Claire seem to be closer to the young boys she meets (Fergus, Hamish, Elias, Ian) than her own daughter? Of course, mother-daughter relationships do tend to be challenging... So was Jamie not pardoned when he left the Dunsany family? Of was it his subsequent printshop work that is going to get him hanged? Glad the British captain was not fooled by the Goat Escape. I hate it when authorities are portrayed as completely stupid. Though I do wonder if anyone will hear the big splash of Claire + raft jumping.

Late to the party, but apparently I'm the only one who enjoyed it! Some thoughts: 1. I thought it was an interesting commentary on balancing your convictions (e.g., unscientific things are foolish) with respecting local customs and traditions. Is touching the horseshoe a harmless nod to the sailors' superstition or a betrayal of your ideals? Personally, I would have touched it without a fuss,. However, where do you draw the line? It might be a different place for different people. Like Claire, I've traveled a lot in my life, so I'm surprised that she's not more willing to go along with such things. 2. Willoughby's speech was the best of the season IMO. What an excellent ode to women, loss, and loneliness. Well delivered too, and I was moved (and a little afraid he would jump). The way he tossed the sheets to the wind was well done too. It was so poetic that I didn't realize at first that he was stalling and throwing the papers to show the wind had started up again. Probably the only part of the episode I will rewatch. Now I want to go to the other thread to see if it was in the books. 3. The Jonah hunt was interesting too. Witch trials were over, but they found another way to do the same thing. "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" . I do think it was a missed opportunity to explain to Marsali that her mother had previously been involved in the witch trial. 4. With 2 women in the middle of all those men, I was expecting it to get rapey. Glad that didn't happen. 5. Good to see that Jamie is bad at something--sailing. Did not need to see him actually vomit. LOVED the acupuncture! Someone other than Claire with healing powers! 6. I wish we'd see the handfasting ceremony --> I'm assuming this was part of Scottish culture back then. I do enjoy these peeks into the culture of that era. 7. How old is Marsali supposed to be? She looks older than a teenager.. They really did a terrific job casting someone who looks like Laoghaire. 8. I want Fergus to have a bigger role with a true arc of his own. 9. They could turn that English ship footage into a pro-vaxx PSA! I am glad that Claire wanted to help. Her desire to help people is her best instinct. I was not expecting the English captain to essentially kidnap her. I'm hoping Jamie and Claire don't get separated for too long because I don't want distractions from finding Ian. However, maybe the Navy will be grateful and help in the search in some way. 10. For a second, I expected John Grey to be the captain of the English vessel. Really glad that didn't happen. 11. So Claire actually misses her daughter. Good to know! I feel like that loss should be a much bigger deal than they've made it.

WTF and WTF! Laoghaire--of all people?!!! I might actually prefer an incestuous affair with Jenny to that! Almost. At least her children seem sweet. However, the lack of aging the actors stands out even more next to young Ian and Laoghaire's older daughter, who are clearly not young enough to be their children. Jenny looked like she could be in her early 40's but not old enough. At first, I was annoyed by Jenny's behavior towards Claire, but she's right. Jamie is enough trouble on his own, but Jamie + Claire is a typhoon and a tsunami combined! Could they not wait a couple of weeks to get the jewels, rather than sending a teenager out to do their work? First Fergus looses and hand, now young Ian is kidnapped by who knows whom?