nara

I know this is unpopular, but it pisses me off that Sidney didn’t leave with Amanda if he was going to leave the show. I really do like Violet and acknowledge that she is good for Sidney, but I don’t buy that he’s in love with her after 3 years of pining for Amanda. I wish they had closed out that storyline better. I can believe that he left the priesthood for a cause rather than for love, but not this.

I’m really glad they didn’t drag out the Jane and Rafael drama until the last episode. I was starting to get pissed off at Rafael for his hypocrisy towards Jane. He was recommitting to Petra and then suddenly decided to get back with Jane and then quickly got back into the dating pool, all while being angry that Jane was confused that her dead husband returned. Now we can focus on resolving the bad guys and getting happy endings for Xiomara and Petra...and Luisa.

I meant that if they settle in NC, he will likely be fighting against the British. (Not sure what happened to people living there who sided with the British, but I imagine they didn’t stay in the new U.S. afterwards.) Being British himself, that probably feels uncomfortable.

I agree. Roger has to think about living in a time that has been pretty miserable for him. Plus, he has few real skills for living in this world. And he has to be on the “wrong” side of the American Revolution so that has to be strange. He also has a father-in-law that threatens him at every opportunity. Regardless of what he feels for Brianna, this is a lot to think about, on top of the shock of hearing about what happened to Brianna. He seems less impetuous than our other main characters, so I can see him needing a few days free from Jamie’s disapproving eyes to think it through and make a lifelong commitment.

WTF? No more Ian? Good thing Jenny is safely in Scotland because she would beat the crap out of Jamie for getting her child into this situation. I did Iike the fact that Ian took responsibility for his role in what happened to Roger. Also, it was nice to see him ace the gauntlet. He finally looked like a confident adult when he completed it. He has always been into Native American culture so he will fit in. I thought they should have offered to take the exiled woman back to Fraser’s Ridge and give her a home there. Right now, she’s more collateral damage. I hope no one has squatted on their land while they’ve been gone for 8 months... Good for Claire for insisting that Roger be allowed to take his time to decide. Jamie’s behavior on that point was annoying. I was hoping a Jocasta Murtagh romance (Jotagh? Murcasta?) would happen and they delivered, but I think a little more bodice ripping would have been good. But wasn’t Murtagh crushing on her sister, Jamie’s mother, at some point? If so, that should have been part of the conversation, but I could be making that up. The run across the lawn was cliche, but okay IMO. 1776 is creeping closer!

Brianna to Lord John: “You are impossible not to like.” Perhaps the most true statement ever spoken in the series. I think he’s the most likable person so far in the series, with the possible exception of dear old Mrs. Fitz. Lord John has been a constant support for the Fraser’s. I just hope he doesn’t have a bad end because of it. And I hope Brianna and Willie meet soon. i think it’s incredibly stupid that they left the prison keys on the floor for Stephen Bonnet to use to escape. Yes, they were in a rush, but they apparently never learn that he’s good at saving himself. Given how soon the jail blew up after our guys left, there was not time for Stephen to escape, but I am sure he did, and will cause more havoc. I do like that Briana went to visit Stephen to ty to forgive him. that’s very mature. I was iffy on whether he should know that he possibly has a child, but it did appear that he felt some responsibility, so I guess that’s good. I liked Roger’s story and how he berated himself for stupidity, but continued to do “stupid” things. The priest’s story was interesting. I agreed with Roger that he should just say the Lord’s Prayer and call it a day. (It’s ironic that the Mohawk were converted to Christianity so thoroughly that they were adamant enough about the baptism to kill him because of it.) I admire faith but his stubbornness was more ego-driven in my opinion. I didn’t suspect the end of the healer until right before it happened, so that shocked me. I suspect Roger’s actions will make him more respected, but I could be wrong, because of the loss of a healer.

I think that the angst of deciding whether or not to go back through the stones was shown better with Roger than with Claire in a season 1 after the witch trial.

Given how much some fans seem to idolize Jamie, it’s good to see the moments when he is a complete jerk/more human. I liked how he got Brianna to realize that it was not her fault and that surviving the rape was what mattered. When confronted with his mistake regarding Roger, however, he became very defensive. “I could not have known...” Yes, but you could have brought the man to Brianna and given her the opportunity to decide what happened. However, this was a very realistic reaction IMO. Unfortunately, he didn’t learn anything, and now Murtagh is tasked with bringing Bonnet to be killed by Jamie. I think it’s likely that he will do this in secret again, rather than letting Brianna decide what happens. I am worried that there will be some further ramifications, like Murtagh or Ian or Lizzie being hurt in the process. I like that the abortion option was discussed because I was wondering about that last episode. Ditto for the option of returning to modern day. I guessed that Roger would end up at the American stones but I still liked it when it happened. Go, Roger, go! But of course he won’t. Nice to be back at River Run again. I Wonder how Brianna will react to slavery. Maybe engineer Brianna will bring some modern day invention to at least make their lives easier?

I thought there was also an element of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” when it came to Bonnet, which a very dangerous sentiment.

As much as I enjoyed the meeting of Jamie and Brianna, I was grossed out about the idea of him holding his d**k one minute and caressing her face the next. 🤢 I was also afraid that Brianna would not share the truth. I’m glad she did. That scene was very well done. And I’m glad Claire figured out who was the rapist. I am so tempted to go to the book thread to find out if Bonnet is ever served justice for his crimes. I do think that this episode really highlighted unintended consequences and how they continue to happen. Are Jamie and Claire morally responsible for all the actions of the man they freed from the scaffold? Including the rape and the child who was thrown in the ocean? I think that would be an interesting discussion. I think that Jamie just lashed out at Lizzie because of his own anger at not being able to protect his daughter. He sent Claire and Brianna to the future to protect them and it’s gotta feel like all that was for naught. I’ll give him a pass for that... But attacking Roger without Brianna’s confirmation was a stupid stupid thing to do. Typical of his compulsive behavior, and the flip side of the way he can think on his feet. I fear that this will end up being a permanent wedge between him and his daughter. Roger deserves a verbal beat down for his sexist condescension, but not a physical one. I really enjoyed the “get to know you scenes” and the discussion of Frank. They do need to age up Jamie, though, because he doesn’t look old enough to be Bree’s father.

Also, Blackjack’s men were about to ambush Douglas and co at that rooster shaped rock, but Claire warned them. Otherwise, they might have been killed and Jamie might have been raped anyway. I wonder if Dougal would have maneuvering without Geillis’s influence. I got the impression that she played a big role in his actions, but I am not sure if that was explicitly stated.

Enjoyed meeting George Washington! But now he’s another victim of Hurricane ClaireandJamie, having been accidentally framed for treason. Maybe they can find a way to frame Bonnet instead? I mean, he was already slated to be executed by the British. By helping him go free, Jamie and Claire have done damage that needs to be repaired, I wish we knew more of Murtagh’s people so we could speculate about the mole. I was annoyed that Jamie sent Fergus into a potentially dangerous situation when he has a little baby. I’m glad Murtagh was a little miffed too, even if for a different reason. I am tired of everyone loving Jamie. In any case, I want a story line for Fergus! I hate hate hate that they put another rape on this show. I am beginning to wonder if something is seriously wrong with the author. However, I will say that they did a good job staging it, and we felt the horror of it without us having to see too much. The callous disregard of the pub customers did not come as a surprise to me at all. Poor Bree—I hope she doesn’t feel like she deserved it. Perhaps Jamie will help her get through the recovery process. On happier note. I thought the love scene between Roger and Brianna was well done. I do wonder why all the men have to talk so much during sex! And what was up the carpet-drape question? Do men really speak like that?

I thought she told Laoghaire she was headed to the harbor.

My interpretation is that you have to be a person to whom the stones call, which appears to be hereditary. Also, Geillis figured out that it was related to precious stones. IIRC, having a precious stone and concentrating guided your direction (but I could be wrong). Claire had 18th century Scotland and BJR on her mind due to Frank’s discussions and that’s where she ended up. Geillis was trying to change the planning for the uprising and that’s where she ended up. Brianna is concentrating on Claire, and Roger, on Brianna. It would be nice if it that concentration took you to right location and not just the right time period.

No, but have friends and relatives there. :(

At the time of the post, it was an assumption, but I subsequently saw an article about it. https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/16/outlander-jenny-laura-donnelly-laoghaire-nell-hudson/ Thanks! Downton Abbey—that’s why he’s so familiar

What made me laugh/worry was her starting a fire under a tree . A little sensitive about forest fires right now. I think they’re saving actor salaries for the big America and boat scenes, which require a lot of people.

It was really good to see nice Laoghaire, who took in a stranger despite not having much herself. I laughed at how easily Joan accepted that Claire was a witch—and she seemed quite nonchalant about it. Briana is 18 or 19 at the time of the conversation and I think her reaction is pretty normal. Her world is being rocked, so it’s pretty natural to be a little selfish in her initial response. Later on, she might have realized that this was not about her, but Frank died first. Speaking of Frank, I was so happy to see him again. I hate when important characters are forgotten once their time in the plot is over. Good job on including him. I wonder why Brianna didn’t try to go to Lallybrock before heading to America. She could have sent a letter to Claire and Jamie and warned them and/or alerted them to her arrival.it would have given her time to learn the ways of 18th century in a safish place. She could have also gotten the latest news on Jamie and Claire. Was sorry not to see Jenny, but I assume the actress was not available. I wonder what they will make of Brianna at River Run. maybe she will be named heiress! ;) That Bonnet guy! I guess he’s the big bad of the season. Pretty horrifying to see him throw a child off the boat, but I wonder if there was a place to quarantine people on the boat. The story of the sacrifice was good. That happened last season too until the Chinese gentleman distracted everyone, so it’s a nice throwback. I almost didn’t recognize Roger without the beard. Why did he have to shave it? We’ve see other characters with facial hair. Despite no Jamie and Claire I enjoyed the episode. At least we know they didn’t get into trouble for one week. I know lots of posters don’t like the Brianna actress, but I think she did a great job as the lead for this episode.

Lol. I had the same reaction! Agreed! It annoyed me when he was detached from her after returning from the war and when she returned the favor. Both cases were understandable, but made me yell at the tv. I think that George did love Elizabeth, but let his greed and desire for revenge distracted him. That’s one of the things that makes this situation so tragic. I don’t think that Elizabeth and Ross were ever engaged, they were in love. Also, engagements were considered legal contracts back then, and breaking the arrangement with Francis would have had serious repercussions for her reputation. Additionally, it would have created a wedge within the Poldark family. I think that Elizabeth did the right think and mostly did a good job of hiding her feelings for Ross. I always liked Elizabeth, though I wanted her to exert more influence over her husband to stop his ungenerous behavior to the people. I do think it’s good that this chapter of the story is over and the love quadrilateral is over, but I will miss her.

But they could have given us a few episodes!

I was really glad to see Murtagh. I’d forgotten that he was sent to America. Willie from season 1 went there too, but I think it’s unlikely we’ll see him. America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair. I am also glad that his storyline appears to be less Jamie-centric now. I thought the story with the Muellers and the Cherokee family was well done. I think it’s more nuanced than season 1’s “Scots good, English bad” approach. It’s sad but realistic to see how issues can get escalated quickly, and how the difference in ideas and inability to see the common ground can create fear and violence. However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly. What is this, Game of Thrones?

@Netfoot and @BitterApple I am impressed that you guys thought of the red herring idea regarding the deaths. It didn’t occur to me! I wonder if Jamie ends up doing that to avoid fighting for the British in the American Revolution? Probably at least a season away, though, right?

Really enjoyable episode. It’s the type of slower “characterization” episode that some of us have been craving for a while. I enjoyed the slow building of trust between Jamie and the Cherokee family. I think that grandma is going to be one of my favorites, along with John Quincy Myers. I am curious about how Claire feels about being part of the colonization of America, which had its own brutality, given her principled stance on slavery. It hasn’t occurred to her yet, but I wonder if she will think about it later. You just know that the governor is going to make them do something awful to the Cherokee... I am glad that Claire continues to think about Briana and how her daughter might miss her. Claire was already married at her daughter’s age, and had grown up without a mother, but Briana grew up differently, and will miss her during key points of her life. Glad that was addressed. Lol. I have a picture of Grandfather Mountain on my phone. I like to think that the scenic overlook from which I took the picture is Fraser’s Ridge. I think that it’s interesting that the color which is continuously associated with Claire: white dove, La Dame Blanche, she was wearing white when she went through the stones. I wonder what it means... Fiona is my favorite tertiary character. Glad she had an important piece of info, and knew more than anybody suspected, but I am not sure how I feel about sharing it with Briana... I really hope that “visiting her mother” is a euphemism and not Briana going through the stones, but the daughter of Jamie and Claire will do something reckless, of course. Any bets on how soon she gets attacked?

You are entitled to your opinion of me, but I have to disagree with you on the options available to Claire and Jamie. Claire knows how much longer slavery will last in America. Making life a little less unbearable for several generations of people would definitely have been worthwhile. I did watch the previous episode. Just because they were not able to stop a mob does not mean that they could not do things to improve the daily lives of the slaves. (I doubt that the mob would come every day to River Run to interfere with how they run the plantation. They came in response to a perceived attack on a white man for which a punishment was stopped.) Jamie could take over running the plantation and replace the overseer with someone of his own choosing. We know from Season 2 that he is good at making friends and becoming influential, which over time might have earned River Run a little freedom to operate as they see fit. Claire's medical skills could heal people injured during work or help pregnant women. Between the two of them, they might be able to get the workers more food each day, or teach reading and writing, or convert River Run's crops to something less slave-dependent. Is that as good as being able to free them? Of course, not, but the obstacles to freeing them seem insurmountable (at least, right now). After leaving River Run, they are no longer in a position to help the slaves in ANY way. I don't blame Claire and Jamie for not wanting to be involved with slavery. However, IMO it's a missed opportunity to help the slaves, even in a small way. Instead, they've chosen to leave and go where the slaves are out of sight, out of mind. Of course, that might be a result of their futile attempts to prevent Culloden. Personally, I would rather try to fix things from inside an institution I despise, rather than simply moving away and burying my head in the sand. I hope I'm wrong and Jamie and Claire remain aware of the slaves' plight and do things to help them. Maybe they will become wealthy in a different way and exert influence and pressure on the plantation owners...but I'm not holding my breath.

I think Ian is meant to be 19. Wasn't Jamie 18-19 when he and Jenny were attacked by BJR? Then, 4-5 years later he had gone to France and was on his way home with Dougal when they found Claire. I'm too lazy to find the link, but I believe it was discussed in this forum in Season 1. I was expecting Claire to be kidnapped, so I'm glad it didn't happen, I like that Roger was a jerk on the marriage issue. It adds layers to the character instead of him being the perfect guy. I laughed out loud about your comment on the skull. I was thinking that only Claire would take a skull with her, instead of screaming at the sight of it. (Not meant to be sexist. I think that anyone who found themselves curled up with a human skull would run away screaming.) I thought it was horribly disrespectful that she didn't leave the bones alone, but I do think it's cool that there is another time traveler out there. What if it's Roger? We know he has the blood of a time traveler... I wonder if we will see Roger turn into a bad guy... I am glad Fiona got married and has the house, though I'm sad to see it leave the family. IIRC, Briana was a little snide about her having a crush on Roger, so I'm glad she is happy. I hope we will learn about the skull this season. BTW, did Claire make the connection between Geillis and the skull that Joe mentioned? North Carolina also has some similarly gorgeous views.. A lot of women went to college but abandoned their studies when they found a husband. Also, as Claire mentioned, Briana was unsure about what to study. Perhaps he assumed she would gladly give up college for married life. I do like that Briana is growing up from the whiny girl she was and is setting her boundaries. I would be nice to hear more about her experience as one of the few women at MIT. I think that it's natural that she would assume Jamie would prefer the life as lord of the plantation. Slavery or not, I think most people would choose a life of luxury over life in the wilderness. Also, being a laird makes you responsible for the entire ecosystem on your land, so I actually think it's disappointing that they did not stay at River Run. Yes, they would be forced to be slave owners, but they could have found a way to make the lives of the slaves and little less awful-- less brutal daily treatment, stopping rapes, etc.--even if they could not easily free the slaves. I feel like Claire and Jamie put their own needs of how they want to perceive themselves above a real opportunity to help the slaves. I think this is especially true of Claire, who is very black and while. Jamie is typically more practical and nuanced in his thinking, so I am surprised and disappointed that he didn't try to stay. I was in Asheville, NC a little while back and saw some ads for a highland games type event. Unfortunately, I was not there at the right time for them. Sounds fun! (But I would skip the haggis-eating contest...) I was hoping that RiverRun would be the new Castle Leoch and we'd be there for a few episodes, at least. I miss the days of Hamish and Mrs. Fitz and seeing the everyday life without always being horrified. I think it's interesting that in the opening scene of the series, Claire looked at a vase and wanted to make a home for herself (and Frank) but never seemed to be able to do that. I believe she asks herself what would have happened if she had just created a home for that vase... Planning is not Claire or Jamie's strength! Maybe the series would be boring if it were, but it does seem that they never learn from their experiences.