nara

A lot of exciting things happened this episode, but the casual "your other wife" blew them all away. Kudos to all those who predicted this! OF COURSE, Fergus lost his virginity in a menage a trois. You can take the boy out of the brothel... Claire's recklessness has gone beyond charming to tedious. That waitress (Bridget, I think) reminded me of Laoghaire a little in her coloring and expressions.

It's amazing what a fresh set of clothes will do. Like others, I want Armitage to stay and be a potential husband for Morwenna. I think Demelza still looks at Drake as boy, so it may not have occurred to her that he would run off to war.

The behind the scenes discussion said they made an active choice to give a few clues that they aged rather than using a lot of makeup/ forcing actors to gain weight/etc. It’s strange but I have decided to accept it. Ooh yes! Forgot about that! I am sure shippers are hoping he finally hooked up with John Grey! ?

Forgot to mention, now that I know that BPC escaped to the Isle of Skye dressed as a woman, I am even more upset that they didn't show his escape!

I really enjoyed this episode. The reunion: Awkward,shy, with callbacks to their wedding night (especially the interrupted kiss). Well done, slow re-connection. Loving the new Fergus and Claire's genuine delight at seeing him. Is the Madam the new Laoghaire who is going to try to come between Jamie and Claire? She clearly has a thing for Jamie. Geordie is awesome! Jamie needs one person around him who doesn't want him or her worship him. Did Jamie just drop his pants by the press? Why not take them with him to the sleeping area? Why did Claire put a zipper in her dress? Surely the washerwomen will wonder what it is. I'm glad she thought to bring pictures of Brianna. Will Brianna find the pictures somewhere? I was wondering if Frank would be in any of the pictures, but i guess that would be too traumatic for Jamie. Of course, Jamie is printing seditious material and smuggling. I swear, he has a death wish! Also, of course, Claire cannot be in town 1 day without being attacked and threatened with rape!

I could not believe that even George, who is now a "father", could be so callous about the death of a baby! However, I guess I should not be surprised. My relative lost a baby and years later another close relative referred to that death and commented that the mother had always been careless. I don't remember the circumstances of the baby's death, but I always thought that was a horribly unfeeling comment to make. So I guess the comment was not too mustache-twirling, but actually realistic. I agree with Demelza in this case, because there are privileges that come with being wealthy or being male that didn't apply to being a non-wealthy young woman. It's not fair, but that was the reality then. Morwenna may be able to adapt to living in an impoverished fashion, but it far more likely that she will regret her decision. Drake is charming, but we have seen no real evidence of his ability to hold down a job or make any sort of living for himself, let alone a wife. If he had any property, Morwenna could possibly help him work it--but he doesn't. She has not ever seen the conditions in which he'd live --if he were not staying with Ross and Demelza, but Drake and Morwenna can hardly expect to continue to stay with them after marriage. She's seen him outside in the fields and by the sea, where class doesn't matter, but she's not really seen him interact with others of her class or people of his own--that might change her feelings. Already, she's seen him be somewhat inappropriately forward during the discussion about her attending the christening celebration. Plus, if she elopes, there may be real consequences for her younger sisters with regards to their ability to get married. Highborn men and their families will not want to be associated with a family where one of the daughters has eloped. For this to work at all, I think they would have to go to where no one knows them and he can work in a mine/field/mill and she can be a teacher. However, I'm not sure to what extent that's possible in this historical period (as opposed to late 19th century). I kind hope this will end as a beautiful, brief romance, the memory of which will keep Morwenna happy when she marries some moderately wealthy man. In other news, Caroline continues to use her power for good. She is fast becoming my favorite. Have they officially announced her marriage to Dwight? I don't remember it being mentioned, but everyone seems to know she is worried about him... Elizabeth's lack of her affection for Valentine--is it anger at Ross or post-partum depression? The drugs seem to suggest the latter. I hope she doesn't do something awful to the baby. The thread about Aunty A being cut off from the rest of the world and frozen to death went nowhere. They'd better deal with that issue ASAP.

I don’t think he was concerned. He just commented that Valentine did not look at all like him (Geoffrey Charles), which is true.

Maybe time travel has some relationship to what is on your mind at the time. Gillian was passionate about Scottish freedom and I think even mentioned Culloden at the rally. Perhaps that steered her towards a time when she could Be involved in Scottish freedom and Culloden. Claire was learning about BJR in 1945 so maybe time travel took her to a time when she would meet him. This time she was focused on Jamie so it her to him. It still seems risky IMO. I guess the lesson would be not to think about Vlad the impaler or Nero when going through time.

I’m worried that the fart may be the beginning of her losing control of bodily functions, which may mean that she will die soon. I really hope that I am wrong. We all do it but I got the impression that scene was there for more than humor.

oops. I thought they were closer with the current Outlander season. Never mind.

It wasn't his complexion, but his hair coloring, I believe, to which Geoffrey Charles was referring. I think that bar woman was always a spy for the authorities and it didn't have anything to do with being spurned. George looked like he was sexually aroused when he was passing the sentence. What an sadistic jackass! *********** I guess that Elizabeth's arch this season is drug addiction. That makes me sad. Ross can learn from Caroline's tact. She handled her fact-finding mission well. If anything happens to Geoffrey Charles while Morwenna and Drake are making googly eyes at each other, I will jump through my TV screen and throttle them. @Arwen Evenstar. thanks for the education re: Methodists. I was not aware of that. BTW, can we do a Poldark/Outlander crossover episode? I would pay money for that!

I know, but I was still sort of hoping that it was not completely no-go for him, but rather a combo of Frank and Claire together that didn't work for pregnancy.

I'm very sorry for your loss. You are exactly right about the plan. First of all, she should never have returned through the stones before Jamie died. She should have gone to Lallybroch and waited a few days more. She could have still had Ian and Fergus escort her to the stones if Jamie died. Anyway, that's over and done. This time, she could have been more thoughtful. Could they have selected a place in Scotland that they knew was still standing in the 1960s, and had Claire carve a message to indicate that she arrived safely? ************** I thought this episode was interesting, despite the slow pace. It gave the consideration to the idea of going back in time that was not given to the decision when Claire chose to stay with Jamie. I cannot believe that Claire left Brianna on Christmas Day! What? Also, despite what Brianna said, it's pretty darn awful that she left Brianna in such a disrupted state--withdrawn from college, mourning Frank, confused about her identity. I get that the story requires a return to Jamie while they are both youngish and hot, but that seems cold. By the way, the first time she went through the stones was the day after Halloween. Do we think she was trying to hit New Year's Day for this trip? But I don't think that NYD has any particular mystical properties, right? The winter solstice would have been better, no? Or maybe this whole thing is irrelevant. LOL. Roger was lured by junk TV and junk food, just like every immigrant to America! (My friends and I joked about how we all gained weight after moving to the US.) Step away from the Hohos, Roger! So, it looks like Brianna might be more of an engineer than an historian (first she fixed the car and then she was fascinated by construction). I hope she goes back to school to study that. I wonder if we will continue to follow her story of that was the end of Brianna. Are we to assume that she and Roger get together? I'm glad that Frank was not so easily forgotten. I was kinda hoping Sandy was pregnant, but I don't know if that would have been good because Frank's line would live on or bad because Frank wouldn't be there to see the child. What was up with the skeleton that Joe had? It kinda felt like CSI Outlander. I wonder if that skeleton is Claire in the past-future. It wouldn't surprise me if Claire got murdered--she's constantly getting into trouble. If not, then it was kinda random. I was hoping that Claire would tell Joe about her story, but I guess he wouldn't believe her. Of course, Claire is brilliant at arts and crafts too! But at least they gave us a reason for that. BTW, her making Brianna's costumes is further evidence that she was not a distant parent (referring to a convo from a previous episode thread). I absolutely loved the Batman references. Glad they moved on from Wizard of Oz, as brilliant as that movie is. I was surprised that we didn't revisit the stones, but the puddle transition was nice too. I didn't realize that she would actually see Jamie this episode, so that was a lovely gift. His reaction was well done too. I literally burst out laughing when he fainted. I was certainly not expecting that! But it was awesome, compared to expected romantic reunion.

Thank you! I was wondering where I'd seen that actor before.

To clarify, I meant the riding scene not the stairs scene

Is it possible that all that riding broken her hymen and that made it hurt less? I have read about that but not sure if that is just an old wives’ tale. They definitely didn’t say anything about impotence. That is pure speculation on our parts. However, a very wealthy man old enough to be a grandfather and still no kids? Something is up...or not up.

I agree on the more interesting secondary characters. The challenge with Jamie and Claire is that there is so much emphasis on their love story that it prevents other character development. I am totally down to create a parody version of that scene. Willing to play any character! See you in Scotland!

Where there are plot holes, I allow my imagination to fill them in. ?

Here’s how I interpreted it. He, like all men of his position, expected a virgin bride. However, he (for whatever reason) could not have sex. When she was revealed to be pregnant, he was willing to pretend in order to have an heir. I think that not having an heir may have been worse for his ego than pretending a bastard was his. In fact, if she had not been pregnant, he might have eventually found someone discreet to impregnate her. However, when the bastard “killed his wife”, whom he liked and was attracted to, the idea of raising it without the benefit of having a young and beautiful wife was unbearable.

I get his reasons but now they will have someone who is neither fair nor just

I had forgotten how much I liked Poldark because I was annoyed at Ross and Elizabeth's affair, but I am so glad it's back. (I am kind of a Ross/Elizabeth shipper but I was hoping for it when they got older, after Demelza had died.) Elizabeth and George are so freaking ungrateful. If you cannot be polite for 5 minutes after Ross has saved you and your baby, then you deserve what you get. I did wonder if Elizabeth was trying to hurt herself or the baby. Demelza's brothers are cute, especially Drake. I guess they needed new young, star-crossed lovers because Caroline and Dwight are now married. I do like how Morwenna and Geoffrey Charles immediately took to each other. I have decided that Geoffrey Charles is the best of the lot--which of course means something will happen to him. The way George keeps referring to the "Warleggan heir" is so annoying, but amusing since we know he is not a Warleggan. I will give George credit for defending Elizabeth to his uncle. Once again, Ross is short-sighted. How could he refuse the opportunity to be magistrate, knowing the other option was George? He has to know that George cannot possibly be just and impartial in dealings. What a selfish move that will clearly come back to haunt everyone! I really think he brings trouble upon himself. What was up with that moon? At first, I thought it was an eclipse, but it did not appear to be.

The scene in which Jamie shot the Earl of Ellsmere was awesome! He was trying to find a peaceful resolution, but did not hesitate to kill when his child was at risk. His quick thinking saved the day and I like how he held his child for the first time. I don't think everyone knew he was the father. Isabel did, but her mother did not. Mrs. Dunsany is the one who later mentioned that Willie is starting to look like Jamie to that other woman. She would never have said that out loud if she knew. It's not clear what Mr. Dunsany knew, but I think it's unlikely that either Geneva or Isabel told him. Claire's visit to Lallybroch in S2 was her first trip back and the discussion with Roger and Brianna in this episode happened after that on the same trip. I wish they had pursued Claire's story in chronological order. I would be much more interested in her story if I hadn't already known that Frank would die or that Gellis was Gillian. As it is, her story does feel like filler. Caitriona Balfe has that timeless beauty that seems to work with all styles. I would love for her to travel to Asia and wear a sari, kimono, etc.

I'm going with his teenage son

I know what you mean @taragel. It would be risky to reveal Laura as the liar but cliche to reveal Andrew as the liar. It is also possible that they had consensual sex and then she was raped by someone else, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. Or perhaps he's the one with the mental instability like multiple personalities, so he doesn't really know he did it?

Another really great episode that made me cry! The modern story is less interesting, so I will start with that. Clearly, Fiona does have a bit of a crush on Roger, but it was a little mean of Brianna to make fun of it. (Especially since Fiona was kind enough to give Claire back the pearls that Jamie gave her.) But she’s rather young, so I guess we can excuse some immaturity. The awkward girlfriend discussion was cute and realistic. I thought it made sense for the research team to have a frustrating time finding Jamie and even to give up once or twice. @ElectricBoogaloo I don't think Briana is trying to find her father. Frank is her father and she seems satisfied with that. She is doing this entirely for Claire, so it's okay IMO that Claire decided when to stop. The 18th century story was really good, but I kinda wish it had played out over 2 episodes. The challenge with this season is that Jamie’s story appears to have more content than Claire’s. I wish they had not tried to keep equal screen time. Jamie is very lucky to be working a relatively easy job. Who knows what the other prisoners are up to? Geneva is a little obnoxious and the family is clearly elitist, but they seem overall to be decent people. Not sure why Geneva always has such a sour expression. I get that after being betrothed to an old man, she would be unhappy, but she was scowling from the very first scene. No wonder none of the grooms wants to ride with her, despite the fact that she is quite beautiful. It does appear that she truly enjoyed when Jamie stood up to her, so maybe she would have benefitted from a less indulgent upbringing. I don’t blame Geneva for wanting to have sex with someone attractive at least once, but she could have appealed to Jamie rather than blackmailing him. After all, she is very beautiful. But I guess her upbringing has taught her to demand rather than ask. She only knows how to use weapons, not lures. I wish we had known her for more than 1 episode, because it was hard to gain sympathy for her in the course of one episode. The sex scene: At first, I was annoyed that it played out as sexy as a Claire/Jamie scene, but then I decided it was well done. It drew a clear line between lust and love. At the same time, it was kind of Jamie to make it enjoyable for her, even though she did not necessarily deserve such kindness. And it was perfectly natural for Jamie to enjoy the sex when it came down to it. BTW, I wonder if they deliberately picked an actress with the same coloring as Claire. I get that birth control was not a thing back then, but couldn’t Jamie have at least tried to pull out??? And how stupid was Geneva not to have sex with her husband a couple of times? If they didn’t consummate the marriage, Lord Ellsmere could have annulled the wedding and she would be pregnant without a husband. On a side note, wasn't it strange that Geneva was allowed to go riding with a groom unchaperoned by a lady? Riding side by side with a young man (even one not as handsome as Jamie) might eliminate some of the social class boundaries and lead to trouble (as it did in this case). Does Lord Melton think that John and Jamie are lovers? Or is he just annoyed that Red Jamie is on the loose? I got the impression that it was both, but I’m curious as to what others think. Totally digging Isabel! She seems very kind and thoughtful and will be a great mother figure to WIllie. She deserves better than to be married to a man who cannot be attracted to her, though I imagine that John would do his best to be a great husband to her. I liked that Jamie tried to warn her away from John. Willie: This show does a great job of casting adorable young boys (Hamish, Roger, wee Jamie, Fergus, Willie). The natural connection he had to his father was really a pleasure to see and well acted by the young boy. However, they could have picked a child who looked more like Jamie if that was going to be an actual plot point…but maybe I’m nitpicking. I cried when Jamie had to make the choice to leave his son and when he said goodbye. Knowing he is alive and has a solid future as a very wealthy earl is great, but it’s got to feel a little bit like he’s lost another child. I wonder if we will see Willie again. “Stinking papist” – this was a good reminder that kids have to be taught prejudice. Willie clearly did not even know what that meant was just repeating what he heard. I was shocked when Jamie offered himself to John in return for taking care of Willie. What an insult to John, who should have earned his respect by now! But then I realized that Jamie has had 2 non-consensual encounters—with BJR and Geneva. He has had to trade his body twice for the safety of his family. Maybe it’s natural that he has come to assume that was necessary. John seems to be very genuinely in love with Jamie. I wonder if it will make him happy or sad to see Willie every day.