Vaysh

Haha, I was actually excited to read that sentence! I was all Oh, Jana threw a party! Jana has actual friends?! Yay! ...and then I clicked the link and saw she was just doing what she does every day, with the same kids, only with added funny hats. Oh Jana...

I'm in two minds about Jessa. On one hand I really love the fact that she isn't keeping sweet because it isn't in her nature; she seems to know her own mind and won't bend to the will of others, which in that environment is quite an accomplishment for a woman IMO. On the other hand, that unwillingness to bend combined with her woeful (wilful?) ignorance about all things Not Duggar often makes her come across as arrogant and occasionally cruel. I mean, it's one thing to quietly believe that sinners will go to hell, it is quite another to publically (and rather smugly) declare that everyone with different beliefs than hers will be horribly tortured for all eternity. I guess I just don't see a lot of empathy or compassion in her (though to be fair we only ever see her public persona, she might be different out of the public eye).

Well, I can't blame her for not looking happy, she's got a lot to worry about right now and might not be feeling too good in general due to the pregnancy and concerns about her future. It is peculiar how different the kids age. They come from the same gene pool, live in the same environment, eat the same food, do everything together, share the workload etc, yet most of the boys age horribly, have bad skin and lose their hair. The girls seem to fare better (at least they get to keep their hair!), but Jessa looks like she might end up in the early ager camp. If you put her next to Jana you'd think Jessa was the older one, mostly because of her bad skin and her efforts to cover it up. My theory is that she's over-tanning in order to keep her acne in check (I have a friend who used to do that) which is giving her early lines instead. I do think Jessa would've made a magnificent Regina George!

It is a little strange how her latest selfies all seem to be taken in the Duggar home. She must be spending an awful lot of time there. I would've thought she'd like to spend as much time alone with her new husband or in her new home as possible. Isn't that what newly married people do?

I'm terribly sorry to sound like the discourse analysis nerd I obviously am, but that sounds an awful lot like the logical fallacy of Whataboutism or Tu quoque or perhaps even more accurately the Fallacy of relative privation. The less nerdy reply would probably be: Yes, ISIS is doing horrible things to gay people (and to an awful lot of other people as well). What has that got to do with the Duggars? Are you saying that because worse things are happening elsewhere, the Duggars should not be critised for their cover-up and hypocrisy? As for your other question, Muslims are being criticised (and attacked) on a daily basis. And if I remember correctly there was another TLC reality show about Muslim families (All-American Muslims) that was cancelled due to pressure from, among others "born-again Christian David Caton" and sponsors pulling out due to controversy. And those families, unlike the Duggars, hadn't actually done anything wrong.

I don't do it myself because the sun is my enemy (seriously, I swear I can get sunburn through window glass) but it's not terribly uncommon around here to tan and mow at the same time. Things have moved towards a more conservative and modest approach though, these days people actually use their bikini tops.

I don't know. From the statement it looks like the Board is very much siding with those poor, innocent, persecuted Duggars who are under "increased attacks" and pressure. ETA: And they've apparently been in talks with Jim Boob for the past few days so I think it might be the Duggars who are afraid of showing their faces in public before the scandal has blown over. I think they were honestly expecting a much more favourable reaction to their Megan Kelly interviews and are reeling a bit right now; they probably feel they can't trust anyone in the public not to throw rotten eggs at them or something. They know can't control people at a conference away from their home turf, and I think they must be aware that at least some people in that audience would be disgusted by their molestation cover up. Jim'chelle may not entirely understand why or agree but there must be some awareness on their part past PERSECUTION OMG, right?

Milking the persecution card to its very last drop I see. Duggars, you are not being attacked, you are being caught out.

How does that work in regards to modern science and technology? Do they consider cars improper too? Electricity? Antibiotics? From what I've read here on the boards my understanding is that the CoC don't live like the Amish, or have I missed something?

Michelle looks like she wants to bite someone.

I don't know... If they look at Twitter simply as a marketing tool, why would they feel the need to follow anyone? There are other ways to keep up. And I don't know how odd it is to be on twitter and only follow 12 people. I'm on twitter and I only follow a handful. I don't post much either and I don't really use it as a personal social vehicle. I drop in now and then to get updates on people I'm interested in and I do a search when there's a particular tag (like #duggarinterview) or anything else that I want to know more about. For me, twitter is more about keeping an eye on the zeitgeist than it is about socialising.

Forgive me for my ignorance but I thought prostitution was illegal in the US? Is this Bunny Ranch an actual real thing?

I'm not really seeing any of the supposed freaking out TBH. Michelle looks more relaxed, animated and happy than I've seen her in ages and the "covering up" Josie's shoulders with her hands just looks like she's illustrating the point they were talking about. i.e modesty in the wedding party dresses. I agree that using the word modesty in relation to a little girl is weird and rather off-putting, but Michelle doesn't look particularly upset or anything. I agree with bluebonnet; from the commentary here I was expecting something a lot worse.

From where do we know Joseph is at Clown College in any capacity? I've only heard it mentioned on these boards. Did the Bateses talk about it on their blog or something?

"The minor"/"the child", not the minors or children? So not just a general check-up on the whole family caused by the no doubt numerous calls they've recieved in the past weeks, but something specific about just one of the kids?

I think he is incredibly insecure and that it shows quite clearly, but I believe he's got a massive entitlement complex as well. Insecurity and entitlement are not mutually exclusive traits. Whether he had this complex from the start, and that is why he was drawn to Gothardism in the first place or if the chicken came before the egg, we'll never know. But isn't this unpleasant mix of personality flaws pretty much the embodiment of Gothardism? It appears to attract the insecure weenies who yet somehow feel they have a God given right to demand submissiveness from women in order to feel like the big strong men they so obviously are not.

I think the brightest thing for both Josh and Jimchelle to have done, would be what we here call "do a poodle", which is basically a roll over, show your underbelly, accept all blame, don't argue, don't make excuses, publicly apologize, apologize apologize, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, throw yourself on your sword type of thing. Whether honestly meant or not it is surprisingly effective in making people and the press back off and/or forgive. It's such a common strategy that I was actually surprised that none of them performed a proper poodle. Josh did a half-assed one with his letter and resignation, but ruined it by slinking away into hiding and letting his family defend him, and JimChelle went and did the exact opposite which makes me wonder if they had any actually PR working for them or if they just tried to deal with the situation on their own (and miserably failed). And the thing is that their church confessions in front of a congregation sound an awful lot like poodling, which makes their failure to do it in front of the public even more baffling.

Jessa is using such blatant distancing language here that I must admit to having a hard time believing her assertion that she is over it and all is forgiven. She's literary incapable of putting herself into the situation she is describing; it's "the girls", "they", "the victims" all the way. I'm not a psychologist so I have no idea what this is a sign of, but to me it is a very odd way of speaking about something that happened to her.

I guess that would depend on whether your sister actually listens, understands and supports you no matter what, or if her idea of love and comfort is spouting clichés and platitudes about being a good helpmeet and supporting your husband no matter what and wow, be really grateful when he points out all those mistakes you make every day but is so kind to forgive. I want Priscilla to be someone Anna can lean on, but judging from her youtube vids I'm not too hopeful tbh.

I have to hand it to whomever decided that Jill and Jessa are to be interviewed; that's a really clever move. Because while most sane people have no problem "attacking" Josh or Jim Bob and Michelle it will be much harder to criticise the girls, no matter what they say, without looking like an insensitive douche. They are the survivors of the abuse and it will be a tough balancing act to point out the faulty mechanics and sick ideology behind their forgiveness without it sounding like an attack on them or like their experiences and feelings are being disregarded and minimized. I think we can manage that balancing act here, because we are all aware of Gothard's teachings and the patriarchal, victim blaming bollocks of their religion, but I do wonder if the media will be able to, or have the guts, to do the same or if they will fold.

That looks absolutely charming Happyfatchick. Lovely details on the birdhouses and the flowers are gorgeous; I just love that intense nuance of red and pink. :)

I will never stop being curious as to how this group of people explain people who are born intersex. If anyone in the know could explain (in the religion thread perhaps?) I would be most grateful.

I sincerely doubt the kids know. Somehow I don't think that mythology or comparative religion is part of the Gothard approved curriculum.

Re-evaluate that as well according to our new knowledge would be my guess. Isn't that what people do? Hah! I certainly hope it was passive-aggressive. >:) Since they aren't allowed to show any real, proper aggression, I'll gladly take the passive kind over none. JenCarrol: I don't know if the story is in any of their books as I haven't read them, but from what I understand it was recounted at a speaking appearance but not on the show. I could very well be wrong though. :)

I don't think anyone's treating them as victims only or making everything in their lives about Josh's abuse of them; I haven't seen all that much speculation aside from a few obvious things. With Jana though, we have spent years discussing the 'jewellery box incident' and her reaction to it. A very public, teary, clearly emotional reaction from a girl who normally comes across as extremely reserved and self-contained, at least in public. And the discussions have usually ended in general bafflement. 'Why is she reacting so strongly, how can anyone get so upset over a childhood trinket, over something that happened so long ago? Wow, she really must've loved that box!' It was such a strange scene that made very little sense at the time, at least to me. She may very well be talking about the jewellery box and Jessa when the tears start but her words "There are people that may hurt us, there are people who may have done things to us, and it is our responsibility to forgive them." sound like she's thinking about something a little more serious than an annoying little sister and a lost box. YMMV of course. I'm crossing my fingers that this scandal will turn into an opportunity for Jana, that she will get out and be able grab some autonomy for herself and that Boob will allow it, for the sake of damage control if nothing else. The pessimist in me fears it might go in the opposite direction, that the whole family will buckle down, circle the wagons and put Jana and the other kids right in the middle with no chance of escape.