Vaysh

They are against privacy, hence the ever present accountability partners. Apparently, if you're alone at any time you will immediately break rules and commit "sins" so you can't ever be alone. Classic cult behaviour. My best friend almost got caught in a cult disguising as a charity, some 15 years ago (fortunately she had a good enough head on her shoulders to get away from the compound before they'd managed to brainwash her like they did to some of her fellow "charity workers") and the thing that stood out in her description of that place was that she was never ever left alone. They shared sleeping quarters, they ate together, they worked together, they spent all of their precious little free time together and they were "encouraged" to share every thought in their head with each other and with their leaders. Total lack of privacy, public confessions and tattling disguised as "sharing troubles", lots of hard work, constant feeling of always being watched. Sound familiar? Even if Boob and Mechelle didn't consciously attempt to recreate a cult environment, they sure managed to do so anyway.

Did Bin go to public school? I thought he was home schooled as well.

I've always considered 'Duggar Time' to be yet another symptom of Boob's endless need to assert control and to manipulate other people. Chronic lateness is a classic passive agressive behaviour which could stem from Boob's insecurities (as do most things with that man). Forcing people to hang around and wait for him and his offspring probably gives him a bit of a thrill and makes him feel like the important Big Man he isn't. I don't think the kids have necessarily inherited this behaviour. Hopefully they've realised it's disrespectful and, in Jill's case, simply an impossible way to live if you or your husband has got a real job.

I think a lot of them are probably frugal by necessity, but with Boob I honestly think it's some kind of personality disorder. Even his adoring wife said he's so tight with money that he squeaks when he walks.

Is that likely though with the extreme focus on the family that Gothardites have? I have no problem believing that Josh would like that kind of setup, he seems to be a bit over married life, but Anna would have a cow. As would Jim Bob.

From what I've read on Recovering Grace and other places for survivors of spiritual abuse there appears to be quite a range when it comes to ideas about sex among Gothardites and other fundies. There also seems to be a discrepancy between what is said (sex should be pleasurable for both husband and wife) and what is actually practiced (sex is mainly for the pleasure of the man, the women must always be available, women doesn't have as strong physical urges as men et cetera). Also, the obsession with keeping their children "pure" in body and mind leads to these extreme ideas that Boob and Mechelle showcase in the interviews above. From what I've read they're not alone in this obsession and judging from survivor testimonies, that kind of attitude about sex as dirtybadwrong right up until the second you get married can have some severely damaging consequences for those children once they becaome adults. I just do not understand how sex became this important in the fundie quest for salvation. I admit I haven't read the Bible from start to end, but from what I have read there doesn't seem to be that great an emphasis on sex, especially in the New Testament. I mostly remember the bits about not being judgemental, love everyone and give all your stuff to the poor, but then I'm a heathen so what do I know? ;)

I'm just watching the episode on Youtube and did I just hear Jessa saying that she never knew her mother had a pet tarantula? I knew her mother had a pet tarantula! Does Michelle not communicate with her children at all? If she told the outside world that she had an unusual pet like that, why wouldn't she tell her own kids about it?

No no, the article is just about Kate; it was me that made the comparison! And I didn't really mean it so much as a critical comparison as a curious one because I really have no idea about what is "normal" when it comes to pregnancies. I just found the difference in their sizes fascinating.

I've read about this Gothard obsession with the family unit being the sole provider of... well everything really, but I've never understood the point of it. Why is it so important that your immediate family is the only significant point of contact with humanity that you have? Why do your kids have to do everything together at all times no matter how old they are? What is the purpose? How do they think it will benefit their kids, being so isolated from society? I mean, even in an insular group like the Amish there is a whole culture with family and neighbours and an extensive support system that share the same beliefs, but the Gothard families all seem isolated even from each other, aside from a few conferences here and there. It seems like such a lonely life.

I just skimmed an article about Kate Middleton and her 8 month pregnancy and wow what a difference between hers and Jill's bumps! Are we sure Jill isn't carrying twins? Because she's enormous compared to Kate. I really have no idea how big is normal but there is such a great difference between them it makes me start wondering. Does your level of fitness affect how big your belly looks while pregnant? Like I can't imagine Jill being very fit, just skinny, while Kate Middleton looks extremely fit and compact. Maybe her core muscles are holding the baby in more? Sorry it's the Daily Fail, but here it is: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3000256/Stepping-style-Pregnant-Kate-shines-35-polka-dot-maternity-dress-meets-children-London.html

Am I getting the timeline wrong if I think that Jana and John David grew up right smack dab in the middle of the early Gothard years? As in that's when their early childhood was spent? Boob and Michelle had Josh, then miscarried J'Caleb, then gave up on birth control and sanity, joined the Quiverful movement and ATI? Because if so, the twins probably had to suffer the brunt of all the glowing convictions of the newly converted. Young enough to be enthusiastically raised by the disgusting Pearl principles (whereas Josh had a few years of freedom from that at least) where any sign of "rebellion" (up to and including not cheerfully accepting corporal punishment with a smiling and grateful "countenance") would result in increasingly harsher punishments. We don't know for sure if the Duggars fully embraced the teachings of the Pearls but I don't see why they would recommend To Train Up A Child on their website if they didn't agree with the methods in it. It could just be that Jana and John David are both lumps by nature, but if you've had every sign of disobedience, curiosity or spirit beaten out of you in infancy and early childhood you will probably develop a personality as inoffensive and bland as you can, just to avoid notice and painful consequences. If showing your true feelings will have negative repercussions you will learn to hide those feelings out of self preservation. If you're constantly told those feelings are wrong and sinful (and will anger not only your parents but also your God), then you will probably learn how to suppress them throroughly. I don't think Jill and Jessa came out unscathed either, but their core personalities are different so they ended up as the perfectly enthusiastic kool-aid drinker collaborator child (Jill) or like Jessa who seems to put up a smiling yet indifferent facade whenever she is faced with anything that makes her uncomfortable (I still can't figure out how much of what we see of that girl is real and how much of it is a mask). The sub-conscious strategy of Jana and John David however appears to have been camouflage. ETA: Reading through this post again I realise I rather ran with it, but at the start it was intended as a reply to BitterApple's post above about how Jana and John David seem asexual. The point I was trying to make was that the early years of their upbringing may have contributed to that. Not that they necessarily are asexual but that after having learned to suppress any natural feelings and urges at a young age they may come across as such.

I think her midwife training could be both a blessing and a curse for her here. It's good because she probably knows all about relaxation techniques and natural childbirth (in theory at least) yet bad because she must have seen an awful lot of women going through excruciatingly painful labour over the past few years. And as others have said, in the past she hasn't reacted well to even the idea of pain. It will be interesting to see how it plays out; but then again, part of me kind of hope we'll never find out for sure because I really want Dereck to have balls big enough to tell TLC to shove it if they ask to film Baby Dill's birth.

Actually they're supposed to care loads about their physical appearance, especially their "countenance". Thus the massive amounts of make-up, big hair and no glasses in public. It's a Gothard thing.

But... can you really say that someone is "truly" bulimic or not if that's the criteria? Where do you draw the line? Do you have to go all the way to emaciation and rotted teeth to be considered a "true" bulimic? Like, until you reach that "goal" you're just seeking attention? People can be overweight and still have bulimia or anorexia and they can have seemingly perfect teeth and still have it. You don't automatically turn into a toothless skeleton the moment you start having an eating disorder, it's quite a journey. I'm not usually one to defend Michelle and I do think she loves attention, but just because people didn't notice doesn't mean she wasn't bulimic. And if she hid it she clearly didn't want attention drawn to it at the time. Honestly, I have no problem believing she had an eating disorder as well as self-esteem issues before she met Jim-Bob and later got involved in Gothardism, because cults prey on the weak and I do think both her and Boob were insecure enough to fall for the cult-speak, though perhaps for different reasons.

Depending on your definition of "good sized" I think they'd need double that for mash because people tend to eat more mash then just regular boiled potatoes. Even so, peeling one potato takes half a minute or less. Put two of the kids to peel and they'd be done in 15 minutes. Slicing 'em up as you go along and then boiling them will take maybe another 15 minutes. Mashing them will take 5 and there you have it. I don't see how heating up frozen mash for 15-20 people would take any less time. And I just spent 10 minutes analyzing mash making, I need to get out more...

..there is such a thing as frozen mashed potatoes? ...why? It just seems like such an impractical and space consuming thing to freeze; wouldn't it just be easier to use instant mash if making the real stuff is too much of a chore? I think that the main cause and problem of the Duggar Diet is that Michelle and Boob married very very young. Mullet was the spoilt youngest child who never had to take responsibility or do chores and probably never had to learn how to cook. Her family moved away around the same time she got married at seventeen so no help there (I know I didn't know how to cook more than the basics at that age, spoilt only child here!). And Boob obviously couldn't learn how to cook because that's wimmins work. They were both very busy trying to make a living in the first years of their marriage and once the never ending string of new blessings came along there was no time for Michelle to learn. Add to that (and excuse my prejudices here, I know they don't apply to all Americans) there seems to be quite a lot of confusion and ignorance when it comes to food and nutrition among a large part of the US population. At this point in time I don't think there are any excuses, but I can see how poverty and lack of knowledge combined with disinterest in cooking could've contributed to the horrible food and nutrition in the Duggar past. From what the married daughters post on social media, at least they seem more health conscious these days. Michelle however is probably still stuck in her old habits (such as heating those protein-rich instant noodles in a crock-pot), especially since she hasn't had to cook much of anything once the j'slaves got old enough to take on that jurisdiction.

I've always wondered if we Swedes are the only ones who go shopping for engagement rings together. I guess so? Possibly because both parties get rings at the engagement and then the woman (if it's a man/woman marriage) get an extra ring at the wedding.

It looks like the twins are done with the home-schooling (at the mature age of barely 16) and have moved on from jurisdictions to occupations like the rest of the "adults". Seems like Boob really is using his kids as labourers. I wonder if they get payed. This list is really telling of their life-style. The boys have jurisdictions until their mid-teens when they're considered to be adults and get occupations. The girls remain as children with jurisdictions until they get married, when their occupation become wife and mother. Reading the younger girl's future plans makes me both hopeful and sad. Hopeful because at least they know enough of the world now to realize that women can be doctors and vets, and sad because I sincerely doubt they will ever be allowed to pursue those dreams. Once they hit puberty they will be "convicted" that their future lies in home-making and child-bearing.

I don't see why Anna should be held responsible for Josh's eating habits, he's a grown man not a child. And if the headship says he prefers full fat, then full fat is what will be served.

From what I've read there are quite a few denominations that still interpret the story of Onan as a story about masturbation and believe that "spilling your seed" is sinful and against God's will. This somehow translates into masturbation = evil whether it's a man or a woman doing it. Considering how literal fundies and the patriarchal movement are when reading the Bible I have a feeling that the Duggars fully embrace this interpretation. As for Gothardites, they also seem to have adopted a lot of Victorian ideals (the ideas on courtship, separation of the sexes into extreme gender roles and so on) so I wouldn't be surprised if they've embraced the Victorian obsession with and view of masturbation as something dirtybadwrong as well ("hands on the cover!", "it will make you go blind", the invention of corn flakes...). I honestly see the constant company of their siblings and "accountability partners" as a way to keep the kids from wanking. Of course it's not the only purpose, not even the main one, but I definitely think it plays a part, especially with the boys. And even if it's not intentional, how easy is it to have time for some self-love if you're constantly surrounded by nosy younger siblings? No wonder they have short engagements... For those of you interested: http://thechirurgeonsapprentice.com/2013/02/25/lets-talk-about-sex-victorian-anti-masturbation-devices/

Haven't seen the episode yet but minced beef with mash potato topping sounds like a Cottage Pie. Delicious stuff. :)

But how can they (or anyone) be certain that their way is the right way if they know absolutely nothing about any other way? I mean, thanks to their home-fooling they don't even get a hint about what other religions or denominations are about. Making the claim that any one thing is objectively "right" or "the best" without sampling or learning about other versions of that thing is just... words fail me here. Arrogant? Ignorant? Foolish? I admit I just don't understand this mindset. Yes. Yes it does actually. You don't get to act judgmental and dismissive about things you know nothing about. (Well obviously no one will actively stop you, free speech and so on, but you will look the fool while doing it.)

Oh god, she's got the "Faithful Dog Looks Adoringly At Master" look down perfectly already. Euch.

Jessa is looking very pretty in those wedding pictures posted above and the dress is lovely, but her size makes her look almost like a little girl playing dress-up. Jill's dress made her look more grown-up and mature, but Jessa is so tiny she actually looks younger here than she normally does. I didn't know Jill was as tall as 5'7"! Have they all stated their heights?

I just really really hope that Derick will put his foot down and refuse access to the TLC crew altogether. Your wife giving birth to your first child (or any child) should be an intensely private moment, not something flaunted on television for all the world to see.