Temperance

I read in more than one place that Jinger was the only Duggar bridesmaid with Jordyn as flower-girl. I also read that her bridesmaids include Ben's sisters (all of them who were older). I'm interested to know what's real. I can see Jill being too pregnant to be a bridesmaid in their culture. We're not fundie, but my family expects sisters to be bridesmaids. I'm sure they'd be shocked if I was Jessa and, Jana and Joy weren't included. I love Jessa's wedding dress. So much prettier than Jill's. That back is even more lovely. The bowtie and shirt are "in". They look very up-to-date compared to Jill and Derrick. I wish them well.

Could you explain the difference between the Seewalds and the Duggars, because to me there's no much choice between the two families.

Wedding toasts are like that! In my experience, it can be very hard to come up with a pithy anecdote especially one that get mocked or won't embarrass the bride or groom or run too long or bring up sensitive issues, etc. I thought Dan's toast was funny, pithy, and managed neither to offend the Duggars nor bring up what he doesn't like about them while honoring his family and the hard times they've been through. So far I have never heard a man give a better toast and I've heard both men and women give what I considered bad toasts.

Catching up on the season: With so many women, this show needs lesbian/bi characters. Pam and Deacon are funny, but she has an agenda. Avery needs to get a grip on his actions. That wedding dress Rayna was wearing was ugly. I missed on a lot of the second season, but I want to hear Jeff sing. What makes Jeff think Teddy will sign the girls? Right now, I don't care if any of these couples are together or not.

I'm a northern with southern roots. My family (who also never had any slaves) never had the kind of money the Wilkes and the Gone with the Wind plantations owners had. That to me isn't "Southern" (although I don't know) that's rich people's way of entertaining. My family was lucky to have the clothes on our backs and the food on our table and any amount of money saved we could. (I know this from family stories and genealogical research.) Some people in the south were rich and knew how to party (still do). They have the wonderful hospitality people have heard of. My family came from the same Appalachian roots that the Duggars did and we could also be frugal. The two big differences between us and The Duggars are 1) If we were trying to save money, we wouldn't have invited so many people. I know what GEML has said, but the biblical size multitude still seems a bit much especially if budget conscience. (Even more so, with the 500 extra people.) 2)When we have more money, we tend to put it towards the wedding. In my opinion, the Duggars are wealthy to an extent and that they could have spent more on the hospitality side and didn't. Remember the Duggars old JOY model. (Jesus_others_yourself)? At Jill's wedding, the hierarchy seemed Jesus, Ourselves, and other people, since catering to their guests seemed the least of their concerns.

I don't see Ben as abuser either. I saw that as cultural. He seems to come from the same conservative cloth as the Duggar kids and of course he's following courtship rules. When your courtship lady (girlfriend?) and you are not allowed to do more than side hug or whatever and stand next to each other. Then seeing another gent stand next to her is as blatant as seeing them kiss or more or whatnot. (Especially considering they weren't engaged and the wedding therefore not allowed to hold hands) Also if Jessa wasn't courting, she seems like the most likely to flirt with Derrick's friends. Too bad she was in a courtship already.

I agree with much of what you said. However I want to point out that I thought Cathy looked lovely. She may have pulled her outfit together, not only because the wedding planning was rushed, but because the women was battling cancer. That may leave her with less time for perfect dress selection. She may have had to grab her dress last minute, because of the scheduling of her treatments. I also thought the color was fine, and suited her skin tone. The somber color may not have been spring like and in general the dress looked more wintery, but to my mind it looked formal and maybe in keeping with her own personal situation. Michelle's dress could have been more fitted particularly on-top.

I don't watch this show, but reading the recap just proves my theory that one sure fire way to be on and have your own reality show is to never, ever accept that you might have enough kids and that your family is fine the way it is or it is what it is or that you're really lucky to have the kids you have and quit crying and make the most of it. My list now includes Tori and Dean, Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar, and any of the polygamous but particularly the Browns (Sister Wives) (not to get off topic but Kody seemed to marry Robin , because he freaked out his other wives couldn't have more babies.) If you count people who now want the grand-kids to be part of their nuclear family, the list is longer. While all of these families are different sizes, all of these people including Tori and Dean had enough kids of various genders that one could think they would be happy. But they're never happy and they never accept the family is enough. Maybe one of these networks could start a support group for all of these people to attend. Anyway I seem to remember Candy Spelling used to collect a lot of things as well. It seems to be passed down through the generations, although Candy had more money and easier time parting with things. Still if you were raised with a lot of stuff around, maybe you get used to it.

Josh is not my favorite person, but I want to defend him a little. I don't think he felt this wedding was much nicer and more lux than his. I thought what he was getting at was the difference in attitude from his parents. His parents seemed like they wanted to be rid of him, but they can't bear to let Jill go. To me, it was more about feelings and getting recognition from his parents. I felt Jim Bob especially seemed to be sadder about Jill getting married with his dragging out "I'm giving up my baby daughter." (And boy did that annoy me. (One minute she's his baby and the next she's looking forward to her wedding night.) If it's gender related, Michelle didn't have equally sentimental thoughts about Josh leaving. (Leave and cleave!) Anyway Jim Bob and Michelle seemed sadder to "lose" Jill than Josh something I could see possibly being true. On the other hand, it may be affected by how helpful she is and their "new season of life". On the other hand, they bounced back at the end of the episode and Jim Bobs "2 down, 17 to go" seemed keeping in the spirit with leave and cleave so maybe after seeing the episode Josh may feel better.

I could believe it would cost more than 2 thousand if they had paid for it. Like the retail price is much higher and the cost to throw yourself this wedding is valued at, but what they actually paid for was much less. Especially in terms of labor. They could have spent more if they had to pay all those volunteers. I believe they paid to rent a special freezer for the root beer floats. The freezer didn't look like it was already in the space, but custom built to hold individual cups. I would add the money to buy suits for the men and boys and the outfits for the little girls. Plus those shoes! (: Possibly they paid the officiant for his time. Also the special marriage license might cost more. But I agree 200,000 dollars cost a bit much. Unless they paid for everyone's airline fare, which I find very hard to believe.

Watching the episode: I have friends who are in big families. When you have a big family, baby daughter or baby sister is a technical term usually used for the youngest or youngest few. Jill is no way the baby of the family. Josh is three years older than Jill (thanks, Wikipedia) . She is not his baby sister. I can sort of see Jim bob saying but with 7 younger sisters he's pushing it. Some of Derrick's friends are cute. It could be a good way for Jana or Jinger to meet someone. Unfortunately, they probably come off a little weird to people who are more mainstream. Wow Josh seemed bitter. His whole monologue came off Dad always liked her best. In the first talking spot, he was comparing his wedding to Jill's and he was probably right. My drinking words would be "give her away" or anything similar, but do not die of alcohol poison please. I thought Dan's toast was one of the best toasts I've ever heard at any wedding. The video and the song did not improve on seeing them again. I was surprised they agreed to see each other before the wedding. Who was chaperoning them when they arrived at the ceremony? (the day of the ceremony) Also they seemed to be alone several times before the ceremony. It doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't have felt they needed a chaperone at all. 3,000 people. No wonder Jim Bob is worried about paying for the wedding. My family isn't as money cautious as the Duggars, but we would never invite that many people due to worrying about costs. Of course we usually do dinner or lunch or brunch. I've never heard of "first look". Has anyone else? Cathy was so sick and yet she looked better imo than Michelle. Not to belittle Derrick but for a adult child to have their only surviving parent there is also a big deal. It's too bad his father died young. Where did they run to? Of course the weddings I've been tend to drag the leaving the church part out. This was the season finale except for the proposal next week! huh! I would have liked to see more of the reception. "When two or three of the children are gone, but it feels like the house is empty." Sorry don't buy that. Michelle "Jill has something that's vital to this family." Me: "A functioning uterus" Michelle: "We'll miss that when she's gone." Most of them were annoying me by the end. Not so much Jinger. But even Anna was a little annoying and in general I like Anna.

I agree with someone who posted that Justin's reluctance to avoid introducing his family is a red flag, but a red flag of what? Either he's a commitment-phobe who hates introducing anyone to his family as serious intent or his family doesn't care or want him to find anyone and sabotages things or his family is so dysfunctional that it brings him pain to see them no matter the circumstances. Based on the first episode, I would have picked commmitment phobia. In this episode, I would pick 2 or 3. If it is 2 or 3, I hope he and new fiance are happy together. I don't like Chelsea. I had very little sympathy for her when she was "put on the spot" by his manager. You're engaged. You're moving your fiancee to your hometown far from his home and culture. He's a public figure in his own home. You're filing a federal claim (telling the government that you're engaged and they should let your man in the country.) Engagements are generally public announcements, even in small towns, where engagements are often announced in the local paper. And oh yeah, you really don't want anyone to know you're engaged? Don't go on a show called 90 Day Fiance. Seriously you're mad at the manager for announcing to his fans he's engaged when you're letting an international audience of people whom you've never met you know? Amy's fiance looked a little like Matthew Crawley (Downton Abbey). I get the feeling Danielle has many strange relationships over the course of her life.

So the wedding invitation is online. I read an article that featured it. Their "side hug" looks funky to me. It seems more like 90 degrees versus the 150 degrees of the usual side hug. It says Mr. & Mrs. Jim Bob Duggar. It also says Ben is the son of Michael & Guinn Seewald. Jessa may be bossy and cold to Ben, but she's got that "infatuated glow, beaming up at him" down. For all I know it's genuine.

Okay a few things.. I agree with everyone about Evelin and Justin. He said he wanted to be a better person, let's see it! I'm reserving judgment on Daya, just because my Spidey-senses are tingling something is wrong with her guy. Danielle is pathetic. She looks in her forties to me, just not skinny. Finally Chelsea seems not too great to me. I think she kind of likes the guy and she kind of likes the power she has over him. I'm going to get man who's the Justin Beiber/Timberlake of his country and move into my small town in my country where he doesn't speak the language and he's going to do this because he loves me! I am so special to I can get a guy to give up everything. I think his manager is spot on about the situation. sigh

Watching the episode again. At many a wedding shower I've heard of or been to, there was recipe sharing. It's seems normal to me. Also I know a lot of teachers. They tend to give showers at school for the person getting married, even if they're not going to the wedding. Other than maybe a few close family members, friends outside of school tend not to be invited if one of the other teachers is hosting. Following what I said before about Jill loves spending time with her family. "She has very close relationship with her sisters." says Michelle. You mean like prison cellmates? Michelle sounds strangely neutral about it, like she wishes the girls were closer to her or she doesn't care since she (Michelle) isn't close to her sisters. Jana "I think Joy should lead the buddy team. " Translation: To avoid being stuck with more work, I am nominating the person most likely to get this job besides me. I haven't watched all the seasons. I was glad that Jill was able to help Jason. It's good to have someone who knows what to do, who's literally right there before the paramedics are able to show up. I think Jill definitely wants the supersize family. She seems to be a huge baby lover. I know it's the airport security system, but it annoys me very much that their frontal hug set off alarms. Really? That even looks staged. Any theories on why Jim Bob blushing explaining his problems with it? Does Jill look a little like Taylor Swift? I don't why but she does to me. I think Jana needs someone who roll their eyes at her family more. Derrick is too in awe of the family and whatever.

No Josiah! (that I noticed) I hope he's escaped, but I doubt it. Shouldn't he be back in time for the wedding? Especially since everyone else showed up for the wedding last week.

I don't remember who Venessa is, but Venessa threw a wedding shower for Jill. (I accidentally wrote Baby shower and had to remind myself, no she wasn't pregnant in the episode.) The wedding shower was for gifts from Jill's midwife/doula clients. In lieu of guestbook, they had a picture to hang on the wall, which Venessa the organizer had people sign and either put their thumbprint or their babies thumbprint on the sign. Since most of the babies were very youngish (Mostly under two year old and mostly present), it was a way of getting babies involved. Michelle was attending the shower as the mother of the bride, which seemed normal to me. There were two love birds on the big picture card. Michelle joked (not funny) that she should put her thumbprint and sign in the middle since they were still in the chaperone period. She mercifully decided not to.

TLC is expecting this wedding to be a ratings boost. For those of you just tuning in, meet Jill, our virgin sacrifice, I mean blushing bride. Venessa. I wonder if Jill really helped all those women, or if a few of 'em wanted to see a celebrity. Michelle is at her most honest when she said "Where did the time go? It was like I blinked and missed it. " She has so many kids, she seems to trouble keeping track of everyone growing up and individual milestones. how to describe Jill in one word. "Useful" says her brothers. To be fair, useful people might be hard to come by in that house. One of the things she enjoys is spending time with the family. What choice does she have? Jill laughing at the old hair was funny, The buddy team thing is awful. Good for Jill doing all those activities. Jill on Josie. "It's been great watching her grow from micro-premie to a healthy little girl with an attitude." (No sure if that's the exact wording.) The healthy is debatable, but the attitude seems to be real. I would not have picked Jim Bob based on his "interest in missionary work" It's good to see Cathy look good and sort of healthy. It cracks me up that both Derrick's family and Jill's family did sibling letter themes. If I had lost one or both of my parents, I would have been very vulnerable like Derrick. He went to Jim Bob to make up for a loss of a father and ended up marrying into the family. My fundie lite friends had similar relationship with a young woman that didn't end well. In general I think Jill and Derrick are well-suited, but the similarities are a little disconcerting. I don't believe you can have "thousands of closest friends". I agree with bigskygirl Cathy and Dan see the writing on the wall. I'm not a baby person, so the baby picture freaked me out. (I'm weird I know.) I really do think Jill loves babies and not just, because she's a Duggar girl. None of her sisters seem quite as in love with babies.

So when Michelle had Jana and JD, it was 60 days? Regardless of whether they have twins or not, as someone with fundie-lite friends who had three kids in less than four years (no multiples involved), it could seem like a big family sooner than later than Derrick. When there's three kids under three, it will seem like a lot anyway.

I just read an article that was a teaser and pondered whether they were having twins. The article said Jill and Derrick were looking at twin names just in case. It also said they may not have a letter theme, which surprised since I thought they had definitely decided against a letter theme. (Maybe pressure from both sets of in-laws since they both did letter themes?) I do think parents should have the final say in whether to do a letter theme. My question why do a spin off now? Oh they have one baby how exciting! Oh they have two! Oh they have three! It takes a least five or six (in short succession with more coming up) before they differ enough from other American families Maybe TLC is worried how long the opening is if they add spouses and children to the opening credits. Pretty soon, the whole first half hour will be Michelle explaining their family.

Did anyone else catch this perk of being married (watching the episode again) after they're married Derrick can Jim Bob Jim Bob? I feel like letting Josie talk over the littles is a "prove you wrong internet moment", because she talks and everything. she's normal. Now if she could just learn to let someone else talk.

I don't think she wants to get married. Why would she since the only concepts she has of marriage are her parents and her sibs? She may not feel comfortable being Michelle and making the oldest daughter do all the work. I don't know if she wants a career, so few careers are open to Duggar girls she may not feel like she can talk about them. But lately all her comments point to her wanting to be single and not a mommy/wife. She's CinderJana now and if she gets married she'll be CinderJana with his last name in her own house. I think she'd have to elope fast if she met someone who wouldn't be like Derrick and Ben tow the family line, "We're going to welcome as many children as God gives us." I think Jim Boob sees that as a requirement. My dream for her is she moves out and lives on her own to absorb other ideas about family and child-raising, which right she seems open to. (Meaning Jill seems happy to aspire to 19 kids, but I'm not sure Jana does.) Maybe finds a career, maybe a husband, but escapes her family enough to be able to make her own decisions about kids or not. I could her see choosing not to have kids if she could or maybe having a few or whatever, but I do hope she escapes first.

Okay count me as someone who always more than usually freaked out by this episode. Starting with Jim Boob as Polonius (Hamlet) in more ways than one. First it's neither a borrower nor a lender be.. Ok, but in a real crisis people generally do what they have to do. His examples and how far he expected to take it seemed a little extreme. I hope Arkansas has good public transit for people living as far out as Jill and Derrick seem to be living since the example seemed to be his car needing to be replaced. Or maybe the point was buy all your cars at my used car dealership. Then his continued emphasis on purity and his daughter's love (sex?) life "My baby daughter is getting married." My mom still sometimes calls me her baby, but somehow hearing Jim Bob say his baby daughter freaked me out. Maybe mom uses it more as an endearment, and he was using it while talking to complete strangers. Also he has seven daughters and fifteen children younger than her. Michael was cute with his suitcase. I actually like seeing Josh and Anna and kids. Who the f** are those other people? I know they're "friends of the family", but who are they? If I were Jill, I would not want all these people. It seems like Boob and Mechelle invited their entire high school graduating class (sarcasm)! Of course Jill doesn't exactly have too many friends she can call her own never going to school or college (Plus the basic Gothard principles). I know she has her midwife clients, but they're next week and they seem to live in the area. I hope Derrick gets to invite people important to him. It seems like there are so many Duggar friends there may be less room for his. and finally Run Jana, Run! Take Josiah with you, and get out before they start you in a courtship.

My favorite part of the episode was Brennan giving anthropologist examples when Booth questioned her about believing in psychology. The new intern was wash, but more good than bad, considering his interesting history and lack of overly weird behavior. The new guy (Aubrey) isn't working too well for me. By nagging Booth to give the new guy a chance and let him in, it felt like it could be saying to the viewers the same thing. I do like Brennnan coaching Booth, but rather than seeing her always being the one who needs to change. It seemed inconsistent with Angela's personality that she wasn't more excited or what about the S/M angle, but maybe that's growth. I liked how they handled the S/M parts. It fits the direction things seem to be moving. Also they've episodes that dealt indirectly with S/M before on this show. (Death in the Saddle and The Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, possibly more I can't remember?) It was really more about the pundit and political angle than his affairs. The message I guess being we need to work together and talk together as a society.

The two dads with the same name seem silly, but then again I seem to know a lot of people who remember/appreciate " Hi, I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl." Tradition?