wayne67

I think my problem with Annalise and the murder 4 is that she was under no obligation to help them cover up their crimes... Unlike her PAYING CLIENTS. It's one thing to cover up murders if you're getting paid or they are your friends... but the only reason I can understand her covering up for them is that she wanted more people to surround her that feels indebted to her. She's not a lawyer who happens to cover up murders, she's actively trying to find the most guiltiest looking people around to defend because she's bored and depressed and there's apparently nothing good on tv in her universe. Also she has at least 2 other murderers on her payroll... So it's not an incidental lawyery thing but something she actively pursues in her personal and professional life. If she wanted to not see the murderers who murdered her husband (like most sane people would prefer) she could just kick them to the curb and tell them not to get involved in illegal shit. Instead she's constantly getting them to commit one sort of crime or another for her benefit. Like harassing the interns to hack the police department.

I'm getting more and more annoyed that noone ever just tells Annalise that she's a chronic liar and they just don't believe anything she says... Every time she pulls out the tired I'm doing this all to protect you routine. BULL. It was a way to get 4 new office slaves. It's just that they're a lot more high maintenance than Frank and Bonnie who are mindless minions to her whims. For law students they're awfully gullible. Are they even get paid for all this grunt work Annalise is getting them to do ?

Felix is going to get his heart broken. Ah youth. Being reckless, stupid and wildly hormonal. I do not miss it.

I was really concerned that they were going to kill 10k. At least this show has that going for it. You can't tell who will die in any particular episode because characters do die off randomly. I'm not sure how I feel about Cassandra's death. She hasn't really been that interesting this season. I am glad they stopped showing Citizen Z in every episode mostly because a lot of the time his appearances added little to the episodes.

Yeah I always find that people who are actual lawyers or cops or doctors have such amusing things to say about the media's portrayal of their jobs on the forums. It's weird but last season it felt like the family drama was in the front seat and the business was in the back seat. Now it seems like it's all about the business and the family is kind of coming in second or third. I don't know but poorly thought out and unrealistic take over plots do very little for me. Haven't watched the next episode and I haven't looked at the forum thread for the episode either. It's gone from must watch tv to meh, maybe I'll watch it later tv for me. I haven't seen Dynasty or 1982. I live in Australia so... not sure if I can even watch those shows. Were either of those any good ?

I wish I went to an all boys school, in theory that would have been more entertaining ... I'm tempted to see if I can find the leaked episodes but then it'd be even longer until the next season and I kind of enjoy the anticipation of a prom showdown next episode. I do feel sorry for Felix that even though (in his head) he knows that Amy doesn't like him in that way he's also still hopeful (in his heart) that he might have a chance . He reminds me of Amy in that she sort of has her heart on her sleeve and is so easily emotionally bruised. I am curious about Felix's backstory. Less so in Shane's older sister. His whole family is full of attention seekers it seems.

My highschool experience was so dull in comparison, just had a crush on a girl and a guy and nothing really happened except bullying. The really interesting stuff happened after highschool like a couple of my bullies trying to hook up with me and general misadventures. Is anyone else watching this show ? This thread is dead :S

To be fair aren't most teen shows filled with semi inappropriate relationships ? Though this one is particularly bad with a cop dating a student, a college aged woman stalking a 17 year old who said he can't... Shane and his string of college age? bf's and the last MMA bf . Amy and her college age ex pressuring her to prove herself a lesbian with immediate lady loving. At least this show hasn't gone to that old cliche of having a student hot for teacher... Like PLL. Then again are there any teachers at this school ? I can only remember the Principal lady.

Wow I totally didn't realise he was the same guy as Ben/Glory. At least that explains why he looks vaguely familiar. I'm so daft sometimes lol I liked the whole... I was at a sex party and didn't want anyone there. It was such a roundabout way of having a character admit they were in LURVE without saying the words and so fitting too.

I FLOVED this episode. So much hilarity.

That was hilarious. It may be wacky but it is hilarious wackiness. "There was pie." Doesn't that just explain it all :p

I guess I'm not fond of static characters. Fish out of water stories are only fun for a while, at some point that fish is either going to die or adapt. Cookie is neither suffering any real consequences for bad mouthing employees or toning it down for the press. I found Cookie fun in the premiere because she was brash and fresh out a completely different environment. Now I'm just frustrated that in 6 months of being on the outside, she's showing little to no growth as a person/character. Except for being more tech savvy. As for Hakeem, he was sort of working at Empire too but now he's in a position of power sleeping with employees. I don't really think it's much of a positive character growth but we don't have to agree :p I don't think I'll watch this show any more. I may read the forums see if there's any forward momentum to... whatever the plot is supposed to be.

That's kind of hilarious. I thought I put too much thought into this show but I guess it's like those people who evaluate how much money Iron Man's chamber of armors would be worth on the open market.

He may not be a sycophant but he's not exactly his own boss at Lyon Dynasty any more than he was at Empire. He is still having a parent over his shoulder at work telling him what to do. He didn't listen at Empire and he's not listening at Lyon Dynasty. I just don't really see much growth for him. He still comes across as a petulant trust fund brat. If he wants to be in charge, why can't he start his own company? Yeah... Cookie continues to show a lack of decorum, despite months away from prison. I just find it hard to consider her a savvy business woman when she storms into a corporate meeting and interrupts. It shows lack of respect to current leadership and a lack of respect to her prospective employees. Why would anyone who had another option want to work for her ? Why would anyone respect her ? She acts like a spoiled child, making a mess because they don't get their way. Like that dinner scene, she was annoyed at Lucious and she dragged out all the food so that someone else would be forced to clean up the mess. Just like the mess she made with Chris Rock's character. When Cookie and Hakeem bond over make scenes at work functions/places I roll my eyes and want the episode to end. I guess for me it's a repetition issue. It feels like a sitcom already with characters running in place, going nowhere.

Well let's see Jamal is bowing down to his father's whims, letting himself being used as a puppet after spending the entire first season telling his father he wouldn't bend to him. Hakeem went from being a smart mouthed trust fund brat and sort of favored son of Lucious to being under his mother's thumb. Andre has been abandoned by his dad again and he doesn't want to be in a start up but he's still desperate for his father's approval instead of getting a clue that his father is a prick. Cookie's racism was less annoying in the first season because she got out of jail like one minute previously and her dissing out Jamal's boy of the week was kind of amusing. Now she's sass mouthing the talent she hasn't bothered signing and the woman who just gave her valuable information after being out of jail for quite a while. She also interrupts business meetings and interviews showing no sense of decorum even though she's saying she's some sort of wannabe business mogul. As for Lucious he made some really assy comment about not letting Andre inherit because he might have have some biracial kids and he didn't want white people anywhere near his company, totally ignoring the fact that he's selling out his company to the highest bidders by going public. There's also the comments he made about that woman in episode 2 who was standing close to Cookie who bought a controlling interest in the company. I have no idea if they ended up divesting shares in any particular way since their last meeting about it got interrupted by some crazy dude with a gun.

I think my problem is that nothing really hangs together in this show. If nothing has consequences for the characters, it makes me less invested in their lives. Andre disposed of Vernon's dead body and seems none too concerned about it, Cookie got a head mailed to her and is more concerned about getting back at her ex husband or something. Honestly why is Cookie starting a new company to give to her sons ? Shouldn't the point of this series about these adult men actually making their own money instead of being handed Empire or Dynasty once their parents are done with their power plays over their children ? Jamal and Hakeem are theoretically successful artists, why do either of them need their parents to 'produce' them. I guess I don't really like any of the characters any more because the sons have no backbones and the parents are rampant racists.

I enjoyed Season 1 because while they were all fighting to take the throne it seemed less hostile somehow as they were merely trying to prove they were a worthy successor to the empire to dying Daddy. Now it seems like they're all trying to climb all each other to claw it out of Lucious grip and it just comes across as kind of offbeat and petty IMO. Not that Lucious doesn't deserve to be knocked down like 50 pegs but it all seems like the attempts are so grade school. Hakeem just announces that he essentially stole a song from his previous label and leaked it online. Frankly Cookie and Hakeem both seem to be unable to keep their mouths shut. You don't announce that you're trying to take someone down. YOU JUST DO IT. They have a start up and they're going against an established brand that has millions of dollars and multiple artists and declaring themselves to be the ones to bring Empire down. All I can think is maybe you should sell a record or something before you get all high and mighty about how you're going to be the next big dogs. More importantly when did Lyon Dynasty hire so much staff? How are they getting paid? Who's bankrolling this start up ? I don't know. This show isn't doing it for me, half the time the sub plots show up and disappear so fast it's like wait am I supposed to care that Jamal or Papa Lyon may have a daughter ? No DNA test ? Are we supposed to forget about the head in the box, or Lucious organising a hit in prison or the crazily unprofessional prosecutor. I'm also not a fan of all the casual racism. It's not even funny racism. It's just tedious.

Teen Wolf has some great parents, some of them far more interesting and nuanced than their teenaged offspring who get way more screen time. It was good to finally see that Shane had some family after so long.

I'll try and be concise since this is getting way off topic but A) if they refuse to show up, default judgements are probably going to go against them and they'd still end up owing money to Empire. By not showing up they're more likely to lose the fight. B) Tianna could owe Empire money for promotion costs, recording costs, distribution costs and other sundry costs that would have been taken out of any future earnings and since she's theoretically a low to mid range Empire talent, there's no indication that she could pay for that out of pocket. C) If Hakeem and Cookies are sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars and have a default judgement against them for not showing up how exactly are they going to bankroll Dynasty ? D) You're assuming that the contract terms are unreasonable. If it's only a one year non compete agreement, it's unlikely to be struck down by a judge for being unreasonable. Especially if none of the Dynasty Crew shows up to contest it for being unreasonable in the first place. E) You're assuming the woman who spent 200 million dollars on a controlling share of a company is going to be worried about a few hundred thousand dollars of litigation costs. We've seen no indication that this woman cares about bottom lines. Why would litigating against traitorous family members and a bailing artist be considered bad press. It would sell the image that Lucious is a stone cold operator in the minds of the public.

You're assuming that Empire would use litigation to get payment, when Empire if it was actually a multimillion dollar company would be using litigation as a stalling tactic and as punishment. If they pursue Tianna in court, it will provide an example of what happens to artists that try and abandon Empire for greener pastures. Their legal team could bog down Tianna, Hakeem and Cookie in personal litigation for weeks or months, reducing their ability to produce and distribute music until the matter is resolved. As for how they'd enforce it, well there's cease and desist orders on the distribution of music, personal liens, fines and so forth. They could appeal or they could try and ignore it but I'd imagine that Empire could just go to the court and continue litigation indefinitely. For example in the real world record executives use A & R reps to have bands sign a letter of intent that has no end date that locks band into a limbo until a record contract is signed. For all we know Tianna is locked into a 5 record deal and an exclusivity contract. http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17 Dynasty is under no obligation to help Tianna with the costs of breaking the contract but I can't imagine that it'd help them if she was broke because of their failed power play. As for the billionaire, she may not care about Tianna either way but if she wants to keep Empire profitable and Lucious happy then she wouldn't mind shelling out a few hundred thou to bury anyone who might try and take away her newly acquired company and the assets (artists) that entails.' ETA: Didn't Hakeem ditch his posse when they tried to mug his brother for his watch ? I don't think he rolls with anyone these days, hence why he was helping his mom sweep the floor.

I'm aware that Dynasty has no backstory with Empire... YET. My point was that Cookie signed a contract in her very first episode of this show. Minute 40:42 with Lucious in a board room with 4 lawyers and presumably a legal clerk/assistant telling Cookie where to sign. Where she doesn't even LOOK at the contracts before signing. Presumably she'd have to sign even more paperwork when she got a promotion/new job as a manager for Empire artists, so that she couldn't take any Empire talent unless their contracts had expired or been terminated by the record company. Lucious the man who expects betrayal around every turn would totally get his ex wife to sign a contract stopping her from running away from his sphere of influence. As for whether Lucious has the pull to kill Dynasty... well they kept making a big deal about how he knows the POTUS so I'm going to say he has enough power to at least slow down the release of any more of Hakeem's Empire owned stuff. As for whether Jamal can prove it, Hakeem already told him that he did and Hakeem is probably dumb enough to have done it from his own laptop so it's not going to take a lot of effort to verify. Admittedly Dynasty can release music via online sources but do Cookie or Hakeem seem like the sort of people that could create a website that could monetise downloads of music. Anyway Hakeem leaked his music. We have no idea if he did so on Empire's website so we have no idea whether Empire will get any money back from the money invested in producing that song in the first place so Empire may have some ground for damages. As for whether they'd win, that's highly debatable but Empire has billions of dollars to fight a war and Dynasty has ? money from Cookie's and Hakeem's time in Empire's employ. I'd doubt they'd last long in a legal arena against high priced lawyers. I'd imagine that for Tianna it'd be easier to pay whatever the cost is to break the contract and have her new label pick up the cost so Dynasty would have to pay otherwise why the hell would Tianna leave Empire which has established networks for an organisation out in nowhere with no monetised distribution networks?

I'd imagine they could buy out Tianna's contract but it would take some time. As for Cookie she has an overinflated sense of importance. Managing one artist 20 years ago does not mean you can compete in the very cut throat world of business now. Considering it was illegally obtained money she doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. Also at the very start of the show she used that as a bargaining chip to get herself a very big salary based on very little experience including a contract that basically meant she could never bring it up again. She's already been paid back for her initial investment and had an opportunity to have a high paying salary indefinitely as long as she didn't rock the boat. That wasn't enough and she tried to organise a hostile take over to depose one son as head of company so that she could use the youngest son as a puppet to run the company herself. While I agree that Tiana's contract could be bought out at a fairly low price or litigated away, I highly doubt Lucious would have allowed his mud slinging ex wife of the first episode to sign anything less than the most legally binding of agreements to make sure she kept her mouth shut and her claws out of his company. That would have included Non disclosure agreements, Non compete clauses and anything else his very high priced lawyers would have added. Knowing Cookie she probably didn't even read the small print. Cookie was allowed into the upper echelons of the company, there is no way Lucious wouldn't have gotten her to sign something with teeth. Of course most of that could be avoided by having Hakeem be the face of the company... Except that Hakeem as favored son of Lucious at the time would have also been signed up to a non disclosure and quite likely an exclusivity deal. So this fledgeling business would have to buy/ rent property in the city, hire some really expensive lawyers to fight any potential suits from Empire and get distribution rights/ agreements with any new talent they hire since they probably can't afford to hire or buy out any of the talent out of the Empire label as they're living on the money from . Hakeem as acting CEO of Empire would have a few grounds to sue his family members, they probably accessed sensitive information so they could show Very Rich Lesbian (I don't know her name) why it'd be worth spending millions on to get controlling share of the company so they would be on the hook for exposing the company secrets to an unknown third party. They'd also be liable for illegally distributing Hakeem's song which was probably expensively recorded by Empire Records so at that point he wouldn't have distribution rights so unless he just sang it on his own and released that he'd probably be on the hook for stealing company property. I don't think Jamal could sue the company for anything successfully because the new business technically hasn't done anything wrong by hiring a previously employed artist but Jamal or Lucious could still blacklist the company with every distribution network in the city. It wouldn't stop them from becoming a new indie label but Empire could definitely bury Cookie and Jamal in paperwork they wouldn't understand for years. Not that I believe the show will mention or go into any of those details because SNORE... but it's not like Cookie or Jamal can't be sued personally. Jamal wouldn't even need to be involved, he would just have to give the word to Empire's legal department and they'd bury Cookie in boring paper.

What would we call that greenhouse zombie ? Ent zombie or zombie ent ? That drug gang is the worst, you'd think they'd want to increase their customer base by helping to find a cure and selling it to the highest bidder. Honestly with the current death rate of this show, it's hard to imagine that their customer base wouldn't be shrinking rapidly every day. What happened to that guy in red from the last episode? Did Cassandra or Murphy eat him ?

I think the part I've disliked most about this season is that it seems like they're trying to paint them as OTT evil and give them morals. It comes across as the characters being flimsy and wish washy all of a sudden. They should have left them as amoral career politicians who share a weird sort of reptilian love with each other and sometimes lure in a third for novelty/ leverage. Now they just come across as quick to anger and floundering around while having attacks of conscience after despoiling a grave and a jesus statue about what it all means. IMO they were more likeable when they had a clear purpose, now it just seems like they're treading water until the election and it's dull.

I find it hilarious that Frank becomes petulant and verbally abusive whenever anyone disrespects him as a President, when he dismantled the last president behind his back. Frank had the advantage while trying to gain power, he was in a position of trust and his main focus was obtaining the presidency, his opponent didn't even know Frank was gunning for him. The president of Russia has experience as an actual leader and isn't as naive as the last POTUS and isn't as easily manipulated as the people who were in the first 2 seasons. Dude expects loyalty and has shown none to anyone. If you buy someone you can't expect their loyalty, nor can you expect happy cooperation when you bully someone into agreeing with you at metaphorical gun point. I'm not surprised Freddy is tired of Frank's bullshit but quietly hides his contempt, he works in customer service, smiling and nodding is not an indication of friendship. Frank hasn't earned loyalty or respect from anyone in government. He was handed the presidency and during his time as interim president he's made a bunch of unilateral decisions alienating basically all other branches of governments along with at least 2 other foreign governments. Appointing your wife as a UN ambassador made them both look weak and pathetic.