MatildaMoody

I agree with you about LisaR. She not only still looks human, she actually looks pretty and photographs well. More importantly, you can still see her current face/features in her older photos. I think that even though she has done some experimentation when it comes to her lips, she was very good about not overdoing it on her face as a whole, and that is the difference. LisaR will probably not go anywhere near catwoman territory until she is well into her 70's because she knows how important it is that she is recognizable. So, she will keep the same hairstyle and the lips - because those are the things people recognize about her. But, as for the rest, if she has had more done, it isn't noticeable to me because she still looks like her.

Right. The confusion comes in defining the phrase as a slur, which technically is correct as it acts as a slander or denigration upon a specific behavior, person or group of people. However, in modern parlance, we generally use the word slur to refer specifically to race, gender, sexuality, etc. So, while it is technically a slur, it isn't what we in our modern culture define as a slur. When I say technically, I mean the definition of the noun, which is: ETA: I am not trying to speak for you MissMel, so please correct me if I am wrong. But, I believe that what she is saying is that this is one of the worst things that you could call someone within NA/FN community. So, I can understand it immediately getting her hackles up. My understanding of the phrasing is more removed from the original culture than MissMel's, as my great grandmother was NA, while my grandmother - who taught me about my NA culture and encouraged me to learn as much about it as possible, had a black father and felt that part of my heritage was just as important since she would later identify as a black woman.

I think the confusion is in that it is being called a "slur." In current times when we hear the word slur we always think in terms of race, sexuality, gender, etc. This is an apt phrase that the First Nations used to describe the practices by invaders. In the battles between the French and the Iroquois, the French invaders would invite members of the Iroquois tribe to participate in peace talks only to slaughter them on arrival. Or, the issues when invaders would provide Native Americans with poisoned blankets or water. They came bearing gifts, but the gifts themselves were meant to kill off entire tribes. So, when you accuse someone of speaking with a forked tongue, you are denigrating their character as being untrustworthy at the least, and downright evil at the most. It is not a racial denigration, although at the time it was primarily used to describe white invaders of the Native American First Nations. My great grandmother was Choctaw and Blackfoot, my grandmother would use the phrase "forked tongued devil" to describe anyone who had tried to scam her or anyone else by telling egregious lies or through other forms of deceit.

I can't tell you verbatim what the exact time line was. But here it is as i understood it. Bethenny was on the West Coast doing her book tour and a bunch of entertainment media outlets when she found out that Bobby was in hospital having tests done. Bethenny sent Bobby flowers and a note saying she hoped he would feel better soon. Jill starts freaking out and contacting every media outlet that interviewed Bethenny to try and get booked along side her and Bethenny left her the message about needing a hobby. Bethenny tried to reach out to Jill again to see how Bobby was doing and Jill had stopped returning her calls, texts, and emails. Bethenny had no idea other than that Bobby was having tests done, just how sick Bobby was. Jill downplayed it not just to Bethenny but to the other women as she was out partying with them in the Hamptons. I am not saying that Bethenny is saying she had no idea that Bobby was in the hospital. Jill told her he was getting tests done and she sent him flowers. Then, Jill cut off all communications before Bethenny was able to suss out what the actual situation was with Bobby. Bobby's illness was exploited by Jill to win an opening salvo in the feud she started for the cameras. ETA: There was a conversation that Bethenny had with Mill during that season where she even said, that since Jill was so angry with her and not returning any calls, she didn't even feel like she could reach out to Bobby directly to check in on him when she got back to New York. Jill essentially cut Bethenny off from all contact with her and Bobby and used that to say that Bethenny had been uncaring that Bobby was in the hospital with "his throat cut from ear to ear."

But, Bethenny did reach out to Jill, it is how she even knew Bobby was in the hospital in the first place, and why she sent him flowers. At no point did Jill let Bethenny know that Bobby was seriously ill - she phrased it as Bobby was having some tests done. Since Bethenny was on the west coast during all of this,all she could do was take Jill's word for it. Jill misrepresented how ill Bobby was - first by downplaying it to Bethenny and then by using it to exploit the argument she wanted to use as a story line. Jill's anger was that Bethenny wasn't calling her multiple times a day and including her in all of her media rounds. It had nothing to do with Bobby being sick and everything to do with Bethenny telling her to get a hobby. And while I agree that people will put up a pretense on social media that everything is fine. My point wasn't about that. No one knew that Bobby was as sick as Jill would later claim he was. Do you think Kelly and the Countess were sitting vigil with Jill over Bobby's hospital bed? No, they were partying with her in the Hamptons and Jill was fine with it. Bethenny was limited by the fact that she was on an opposite coast. Unless she was supposed to drop all of her West Coast commitments because Jill told her Bobby was having tests, what more was she supposed to do to show that she cared?

I forgot that they cut to what the men were doing. Mario was a TOTAL douche. I did like the wedding dresses made of toilet paper though. I think if Kelly had stayed for that, she would have really gone ballistic because the women were once again paying attention to Bethenny. I don't know if you noticed, but the majority of the fights Kelly picked were when people were either praising or paying attention to Bethenny.She would have gone crazy if she had to actually watch the rest of the women celebrate Bethenny's upcoming marriage.

For me, the issue is timing. Everything you say is true. If Carol had been up front in the beginning, yes it would have been a better more mature look for her. But, I seriously doubt that it would have changed anything. Mainly, because after discussing it with Lu during filming, everything seemed to be fine. Otherwise, there would have been something about this feud in the media during filming. Instead, Luann and Carol were seen hanging out together and going to each other events. That was the case up until about 2-3 weeks ago. So, this feud, to me, really has nothing to do with Carol dating Adam or Adam having dated Luann's niece. All of that seems to be a straw man for an issue that was essentially moot until Luann started blasting Carol on Twitter.

I agree with everything you say here. I wanted to point out the bold part of your post, because I think this was a pattern with Jill. She wanted that "Bethenny and I had a fight" story line, so even after she was warned against it she went with it. She wanted to dictate the terms on which she made up with Bethenny, so even though she was obviously ready to make up with Bethenny when Ramona set up the meeting between the two, she didn't want to disrupt the time frame she put on the make up. So, she left with Luann leaving it unresolved. By the time she heard that Bethenny was pregnant and getting married she realized she messed up and tried force a makeup by crashing Ramona's trip after she had already declined the invitation. Even though the Countess warned her that showing up uninvited was a bad idea, Jill had an image in her head of "two girls on the beach with gifts" so she went for it. I'm sure that if we revisit some of the earlier Jill footage - even back when she was on good terms with Bethenny she was repeating this same pattern.

It was more like a low key bridal shower for both Ramona and Bethenny after Kelly left than a stag party. Alex gave them super fancy designer wrist restraints and Sonja had to show Ramona how to use them. It was really cute.

Remember though, that while Bobby was having this surgery, Jill was partying in the Hamptons, so it's not like Jill treated it as a high risk surgery either. It only became a high risk "throat cut from ear to ear" surgery when the cameras turned on for filming. That was one of the things that really bugged me about that entire feud. Jill was exploiting Bobby's cancer as a way to gain the upper hand in an argument that she created for story line purposes. Bobby on the other hand, was grateful for the flowers (Bethenny sent them to Bobby not Jill, which is as it should have been), and thought that Jill was being silly by fighting with Bethenny over any of it.

That may be true, but it is an exception that even Luann has utilized with Sonja and Harry. So, Luann just needs to zip it.

Well since we know that Luann and Carole were fine during filming and even up until a few weeks ago, I doubt there is going to be some major love triangle drama happening. I am much more curious about what caused Luann to have such a change of heart between the wrapping of filming and the past couple of episodes airing. If this isn't a grab for relevance, then something else had to have happened besides this nonsense over Adam.

I don't know. No one thinks Brandi is lovely. She may be talking about someone else.

To be fair, and this is my understanding of the situation, Carol had only been on a couple of dates with the guy. At that point they only just liked each other and were seeing what happened. I don't know many adults who declare themselves to be an item after what amounts to about a week or two of dating. Plus, I never got the impression that Luann and Carol were close the way Carol and Heather are close. Hell, even after they called a truce and began being friendly, Carol was still closer to people like Kristen than she was to Luann. Telling Luann that she had gone out with Adam would seem much more weird to me than her waiting until they had a few dates in and were actually starting something. I know that for the sake of Reality TV Carol probably should have said something to Luann off camera first - of course, it is possible that she did when you consider how they were fine and hanging out during filming and after. I don't know, I am starting to believe that Luann started this feud after the season aired for relevance and standing. Mainly, because her reaction goes completely against her sunglasses wearing "be cool, don't be like uncool" admonition in the trailer. Also, the timing of Luann making a stink over this just screams "Reality Show Beef" to me.

Well, I am pretty sure that the guys that Sonja is parading in front of the camera are paid actors/escorts. I guess Adam was technically in his 20's at the time of filming, but since he was knocking on 30, I really don't see the age difference between he and Carol as all that big of a deal. If he were 22, I would seriously side eye someone Carol or even Brandi's age hitting on him. But, when he is an eyelash away from 30, I am not going to second guess his ability to choose someone he wants to spend time with.

OK, I studied Shakespeare and Chaucer as part of my English Lit degree. I have never considered myself to be "hip" or in any way cool enough to be a Downtown New York Gal. So, with all of that in mind, can someone please tell me what the word "bashert" means?

Carol asked if Aviva hired a ghostwriter because Aviva had come to Carole and asked Carole to help vet one for. Carole simply wanted to know if Aviva had chosen one based on a prior conversation they had. There was no implication of that being the only way that Aviva could get published.

Yeah, I wouldn't think the film crew and production would stay overnight with the women. They would just have call times for filming, right? Or do they make exceptions when the women are on trips?

Yeah, this is the niece that went out on the town with Luann and Kelly. Remember that scene where Luann asks Kelly what it would take to get Kelly to let her hair down? Kelly literally takes the clip out of her hair and let's it down. I laughed and laughed at that one. Housewives used to be so fun. I think that is why I can't let go. I keep looking for those moments, like Easter eggs full of good snarky fun. I don't know what Luann's play is here. Maybe she thinks feuding with Carole will give her enough of a story line to keep her apple, or maybe she really is jealous that Carole and Adam are hitting it off? I just don't see Luann wanting Adam for herself. Even though she was refreshingly less pretentious last season, I still think there is a part of her that views people that work for her as "the help." So while it would be fine for her to go slumming with a pirate while on vacation, I doubt she would shit where she eats. Looking at her tweets now that filming has ended, there is definitely something going on with her anger at all of this and it may just be a throwback to her anger at Carole for Carole's earlier slights her first season. Maybe she still feels like Carole is trying to one up her in some way. I just don't think Carole is trying to one up her with this. I think Carole is going for her "free spirit single and free" vibe and felt a connection - however superficial with Adam. As for why she didn't tell Luann right away. I think that it falls under two categories. 1. They have only been out a few times and for all of the friendliness that Luann and Carole shared last season, Carole just doesn't feel comfortable talking about it when she has no idea what if anything will come of it. 2. It really isn't any of Luann's business who Adam dates or what his relationship status is.

I totally agree. I'm addressing it from Luann's perspective. She keeps referring to him as part of her staff or her employee. Which, IMO, further hurts her stance. Because he does not appear to work solely for Luann which makes her stance even more ridiculous. I think the simple fact that Sonja agrees with Luann is what has me firmly in the "this is some ridiculous bullshit" corner.

You did not make that up. On Lu's list of grievances for why Carole is in the wrong by dating Adam, it is the friendship between the almost 30 year old chef and her 18 year old son. I do think that this is much ado about nothing. Luann is acting as though Adam has no say in who he can and can't date and as his employer she does not get a say in that.

I think this is where I differ. If Heather were just giving Bethenny a head's up, she would have picked a better time to do it. She wouldn't have done it at an event when Bethenny was getting to know Dorinda - who also wasn't invited. That is why I think there was a great deal of producer influence. I would hope that Heather is better at reading a situation than that. The thing that I like about Heather is that she seemed to be really good at cutting through the bullshit last season. That one scene made it seem as though she was playing into the producer influenced bullshit. I personally think that Heather is better than that. If she were just giving a head's up, I think she would have called Bethenny or maybe even done an off camera text - as the Housewives are so fond of doing.

That was the other thing that bothered me about that whole thing. In real life, no one would ever approach someone about why certain people weren't invited to a birthday party in front of someone else who also wasn't invited. And, it felt so odd coming from Heather, who is one of my favorites. I get that she was most likely nudged by production to address it. But, I was really hoping that Heather would be above that kind of thing.

But, I believe that trip was also paid for by production in the same way that Bethenny's party was paid for by production. It was to showcase Heather's business, no question. But, it's not like she was going to have Ramona traipsing along with her to a business meeting. I wouldn't have invited Ramona either. But, I am saying that she really should have let Kristen address Bethenny about the party because now the next interaction between Bethenny and Kristen is going to be awkward when it really shouldn't be over something so petty. As much as I like Heather, I just don't think she was owed an explanation for why Kristen wasn't invited and I really wish she had just stayed out of it. Doesn't excuse Bethenny's behavior, but I do think they were both wrong in that scene. Bethenny was definitely more wrong, but it really wasn't a good look for Heather to bring it up in the first place, IMO. And I think that it is a bit hypocritical of Heather to even question who gets an invite considering how strongly she felt about who she invited on a trip that she knew was going to be extensively filmed.

His ashes had been interred at a church. The church has been sold and they contacted her to remove the ashes. She talks about it in that scene where Bethenny says something about rebranding death.