MatildaMoody

Now I feel like an asshole for disliking Heather so much her first season. I feel like an even bigger asshole for only starting to like her when I saw her need to want to fix just one thing for him (his hearing). I think I am just going to watch the show and skip the threads from now on. With this kind of heavy shit going on, I will always feel like an asshole for snarking on any of these women. They all have too much personal shit going on to make the show easy to make fun of for me.

I didn't know Jax had life threatening medical issues. I thought his issues were related to his childhood transplant. Is he still facing life threatening issues? I honestly thought he was out of the woods when it came to whether or not he would live. The only reason I actually started to like Heather was because of her wanting to "fix" his hearing and how important that was for her as a mom. I had no idea that he was still at risk of losing his life to his illness. Now I feel awful for even commenting on the show when such heavy shit is going on.

I just read Bethenny's blog and I didn't see her blaming Heather for anything? As a matter of fact, Bethenny' doesn't mention Heather in her blog.

I think this is where my confusion comes in. Kristen and Heather were ok with Bethenny the trip leaving early, yes? And Bethenny didn't ask them to reschedule the trip, right? So if both of those things were true, why is there an argument? I get that Ramona stirred some unnecessary shit for screen time, but why is there an argument about who had to reschedule what for whom? I didn't think that happened when I watched the episode, and it sounds like that didn't actually happen from what I have gleaned from this discussion. So, what is the actual issue, aside from Ramona doing a very good job of stirring unnecessary shit?

That is interesting. I have never gotten the feeling that Andy would turn on someone he really enjoyed being around. He seems like the type that will enjoy a housewife, but will also be careful about which ones he befriends. Like, he seemed to REALLY enjoy Jill, but I never thought he considered her a friend. I think he enjoys Tamra and Brandi and Vicki, but I don't think he considers them friends. I think that Andy enjoys pitting the housewives against each other, but I think it is very rare that he actually befriends any of them. Even as much as he fauns over VanderPump, I don't think he likes her very much. But, I also think that Andy doesn't actually like the individual housewives so much as he LOVES the Housewives shows. I always think of him as more of a pimp than anything else. He convinces these women to sell out their lives and makes a great living from it. He babies the ones he needs to in order to keep them going or get them to come back, but I never think of him as selling out his actual friends. Because I don't think he is actually friends with any of them. He knew Carole socially before she joined the show. I think Bethenny is the only one that he intentionally socialized with after she started the show. But, I don't think Andy is loyal to ANY individual housewife.

I haven't caught WWHL since the NY season started. So this is a good point. I didn't know that there hasn't been a "whose side are you on" poll. But considering that everyone except the OG housewives seem to have an issue with Bethenny, maybe he was trying to spare her one more reason to get all emotional and cause the audience to tune out? I always assumed the reason that Andy liked Bethenny was because she says the acerbic thing that we are all thinking. Maybe he is actually playing favorites? Or, maybe he is trying to keep his show moving in a direction that doesn't point to his mistakes? I would need to watch the episodes before I could be sure.

I am so glad you get it. I do have housewives that I actively dislike, but none of them are in the NY cast. I used to dislike Luann until she was demoted. Then, I feel like I actually met LuLu. And I loved LuLu - I will be willing to bet that SiLex is really pissed off that LuLu only made her appearance AFTER they moved to Austraila. And I am loving LuLu even more because she can't seem to choose between her haughty "don't you dare date my help, dahling" and "If Bethenny doesn't poke fun she doesn't like you." Or even her toast about the total girl crush she has on Dorinda. The Countess would never have admitted to something so plebian (even though she was probably knocking boots with as many pirate/Johnny Depp Lookalikes as she could at the time) as to have a girl crush on a cast mate. I think she is actually adopting a little bit of Sonja in her attitudes when it comes to being open on camera about sex. But then, I keep reading about how awful Sonja is with her delusions and her con artistry. It all kind of takes away from how much I enjoyed the show.

I did not mean to imply that it is a bashing of Bethenny. So I am sorry if I came across that way. I was just saying in general, I have been enjoying the season so far and I feel left out when all of the responses to it are negative. It makes me worry that we won't have the show around much longer. I don't care who is being bashed. I say bash away. I was just stating why I don't follow this thread as closely as I once did and will sometimes need clarification on what the discussion is actually about from time to time. EDIT: Because, I was sincere in my apology and I realized it may not have been worded that way.

So the real issue is that Ramona stirred some shit up. And instead of blaming Ramona, Bethenny blamed Heather. And instead of others blaming Ramona, they are blaming Bethenny? I'm not snarking, I am trying to get this straight because I don't spend nearly as much time on the New York boards as I did in the past. I will come to the thread after having enjoyed an episode and find myself scrolling through pages and pages of bashing and feel left out because I don't hate, or even dislike anyone on the show. With the exception of how superfluous Kristen is, I am loving all of the women and the different dynamics they are bringing. It feels more like the old seasons, because everyone is still trying to find their niche in the new line up. And, I have found every episode so far to be fun, with a touch of over emotional drama, and then right back to fun again. So, I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss a crucial plot point somewhere. Thanks for clarifying.

You know what I love about this particular franchise? They take themselves so much less seriously than Atlanta or New Jersey or even the OC sometimes. Although, OC is funny because the women take themselves so seriously that they are inadvertently hilarious. But, the NYC gals always seem to strike a really good balance between being serious and not taking themselves too seriously. I loved what Luann said in her blog about getting a laugh from Bethenny's line about it seeming like a Stay Free commercial. Because let's face it, it really did. But, Luann's take is that if Bethenny doesn't poke fun at you, she doesn't like you. It shows that she DOES actually get Bethenny, but more importantly, it shows how much she has grown in the not taking herself so seriously department. I mean if Bethenny had compared her modeling her fashion line to a maxi pad commercial back in season 2 or 3, the Countess would not have been amused and it would have been a season long fued over a throw away quip. ETA: I am just catching up on the past couple of posts. What is all of the back and forth about Heather and Kristen having to reschedule? I thought the end result was Bethenny not having a problem with the schedule, only that she would need to leave early. So, I don't understand the arguing points about it. Can someone clarify? Did I miss Bethenny asking them to reschedule, or did she agree that the date was fine and she would just need to leave early?

To be fair, Adam is 30. Sonja would NEVER date a 30 year old, so Luann was totally being snarky when she said that. Sonja likes them either just out of high school, or just before they go into an old age home. So, I didn't blame Carole for being offended by that.

CRAP! Bethenny is older than I am and I still use that saying. I didn't realize it was cliched.

I hate to be that douche who quotes her own posts, but I just wanted to riff on this a little bit more. When it comes to Kristen, I would say that she is the one Housewife who gets a story line out of being treated like shit by her coworkers/friends. Heather taking over whatever the hell outing Kristen had planned in Montana gave Kristen screen time and time for her to allow Josh to diminish her feelings over the phone. Ramona almost KILLED her with an oar, because Kristen got Ramona's hair wet! The fact that Ramona split her lip with the goblet/glass/plastic was always secondary to me. Ramona tried to hit Kristen in the head with an OAR! And that was after she split Kristen's lip. Sonja said that it was Kristen's own fault that Ramona split Kristen's lip and tried to hit her with an oar, because Kristen got Ramona's hair wet! Not to go too far back to she who must not be named, but I think it speaks to Kristen as a housewife. She who must not be named was dropping F-bombs in front of Kristen's children and her own, simply because Kristen said she wanted to get to know She who must not be named and Carole and not be involved in whatever was going on with the two of them. The beauty of that scene, Kristen came out the winner because She who must not be named first said she didn't want to discuss anything in front of the children. Kristen was the one who had presence of mind to send the children to play with the nanny. EVERYONE treats Kristen like she is nothing, and she keeps coming back for more. Seems like she would have a chance to work that to her advantage and get some sympathy and possibly a story line out of it.

She said, "we called the wine Collette because she's our favorite. Just kidding. We called it that because it sounds French." So, I don't think she was serious about playing a favorite, it certainly didn't come across that way to me. It sounded like a poor attempt at humor. I would call her out on bad parenting for naming a WINE after her 4 year old daughter, before I called her out on that ridiculous attempt at being "fun" in a talking head.

This made me laugh. Everyone treats Kristen like she is nothing. Heather is Kristen's friend and we saw what went down between them in Montana last year. Carole is Kristen's friend, but she made sure to take the opportunity to spread hurtful gossip that may or may not have been something that Bethenny actually said to her. Ramona tried to hit the bitch in the head with an oar. Sonja said it was Kristen's own fault that Ramona through a hard plastic wine goblet at her and split her lip. And we have seen how Josh, that prince of a husband of hers, has treated her. For me, very little of the other women's issues have to actually do with Bethenny. My issues as a viewer have to do with the way the other women keep the Bethenny thread alive. They can easily follow her own rules and just not engage her. But they don't. Instead they choose to have these "discussions" and "confrontations". I know that kind of stuff is par for the course with housewives, but if Heather had done to Bethenny, what Bethenny did to Heather, and say not cared whether or not Bethenny was going to eat the fish, Bethenny could have been a non starter at the dinner. If Kristen had told Carole that what she had just said was hurtful and unnecessary, she and Carole could have had an actual conversation on screen without Kristen being dismissed by Bethenny. These women just need to step up their own game and stop worrying so much about Bethenny. Bethenny obviously isn't concerned with them, so why engage her at all? Why not let Bethenny come to them and then decide if THEY think it is worth their time to engage her? It looked like Heather was the only person to pick up that message at the AOA party. Stay standoffish and let Bethenny come to her and then disengage. Easy. No muss no fuss and Bethenny doesn't get to be the star of the scene. Instead, Bethenny is put in the position of asking her for forgiveness and a hug.

So regarding Shannon.. Last season I immediately picked up on her as being a bored rich woman whose children were becoming less dependent on her. I thought there were problems in the marriage and that one of the real reasons she wanted to go on the show was to somehow be able to point things out to David, and say "See? Our problems are because of you not doing XYZ." She didn't expect to have her own behavior reflected back at her and she started to make her own changes. This year I see a continuation of that. Now she legitimately has a gripe with David because of the adultery, and she wants to hold that up to show that once again, David is the reason their marriage is having so many problems. I think that once again, she is going to see her own behavior reflected back on her. Once she starts to see just how much misery she projects onto David and all of these missteps with involving her daughters, she will most likely have another "Aha!" moment like she did with her and David going to bed at different times. I don't want to sound like I am defending David. if he is that unhappy, he should take his own advice and just be fucking happy - in other words, start the divorce proceedings rather than sneaking around (badly) behind his family's back. But, David seems like he is truly at a loss as to what he is supposed to do. And Shannon's deep pit of misery and anger aren't helping the situation. I think the two of them should separate and really think about whether or not the marriage can make it at this point. I mean, I think it is possible that they could work past it, but only if Shannon were really to truly forgive, which would mean she couldn't hold it over his head anymore. And, that is something I don't think Shannon is capable of.

THIS! I get that Bethenny is polarizing and a lot of people hate her or just love bashing her for the hell of it. But, the dynamic I am seeing on the show with the women is simply a matter of the women MAKING their story lines revolve around interaction with Bethenny. So, Bethenny arrives late and leaves early and is guarded and not letting them in. SO WHAT? If you don't want this to be the Bethenny show, don't rehash every small perceived slight. If she tells you that she can't do something because she has to spend time with her daughter, why is it a THING? Don't make it a thing, just do what you do in real life if someone tells you they can't make it to an event because of child care issues. Say, sorry you can't make it and MOVE THE FUCK ON! If my best friend says she can't go to girls' night with me because she couldn't get a sitter or she really wanted to spend time with her daughter that night. I don't go around to my mom, my sisters, my brother, and my mutual friends and say "she stood me up again. I have responsibilities to my family too. But, I was able to go out and have fun. I don't know why she is trying to exclude me from her reality." And in real life, none of these women would be all that concerned about why Bethenny isn't there. But, because they are trying their best to be filmed with Bethenny, there is no organic getting to know each other, or just lightly socializing. It has to be A THING. Then, we the viewers are stuck with this Bethenny-centric theme. I know, the women were probably filmed doing tons of stuff that didn't involve Bethenny. But, why give life to a Bethenny story when she ISN'T there? Why then drum it up as a reason to "confront" Bethenny? All they are doing is giving the producers the thread they need to make the show center around Bethenny. They could just as easily do what Bethenny is doing and simply not engage her or any conversation about her. But, they ALL want a piece of Bethenny and because of that we see stupid arguments about meatballs versus fish and nail polish trademarks. I see why Bethenny gets along with Dorinda. Dorinda isn't constantly in her grill trying to bond or call her out for not being open. She is just hanging out and not making things so serious. It looks like Dorinda and Carole were both able to befriend Bethenny, because they simply had their own shit going on and didn't seem to care if Bethenny was around or not. I could see Bethenny appreciating that type of low maintenance acquaintance and it growing from there.

I always thought that Alex and Simon got a raw deal when it came to how the show portrayed their kids. These were extremely young kids that had been kept up 6 hours past their bed time while filming that scene. I remember reading that the scene itself took about 8 hours to film and started in the evening - everyone was exhausted especially the kids who were simply not used to being up so late. Not only that, the producers wouldn't let any of them leave until the film was in the can. It would have been difficult for most adults to sit through filming an 8 hour dinner scene, let alone two pre-school aged children. I thought it was really shitty that out of 8 hours of footage, they chose to highlight the footage of the kids acting out. I think that was what Simon of OC's biggest worry was if the kids were allowed to film without him there to supervise. Also, their book was never about how to raise a child in NYC. It was about what their experience was as parents of young children in NYC. I remember reading it and actually thought it was really well done. Much better quality than any of the other housewives books that I have come across and that includes the ones that were obviously ghost written, like Bethenny's.

I don't really have any memory of Tamra and Lizzie interacting prior to the ugly sweater party. And I remember Tamra pretty much having Lizzie in her sights after Lizzie outed Tamra's shit talking to Heather at that party. Which, I have to admit kind of made me love Lizzie. I had hopes that she would really call Tamra out more, but the only stuff she ever called her out on was really petty stupid stuff so she kind of fizzled for me. As for Vicki, yes she is awful. But, I agreed with her warning the women not to trust Tamra. She had been burned and had watch Tamra burn so many people over the seasons, it would have been almost cruel of her not to warn them. But, I do agree that Vicki and Tamra deserve each other. Neither of them seem capable of maintaining a friendship. Tamra is just as bad as Vicki when it comes to that. The difference is that I don't Vicki feels she should always be fighting with at least one of the other women in order to have a story line. I also thought that Vicki was trying to be a friend to Tamra (as much as she is capable of anyway) when she warned Tamra not to take on Heather because she would lose, and when she decided to stay completely out of the Shannon/Heather drama and encouraged Tamra to do the same. Vicki's treatment of Lizzie was extremely crappy though. It wasn't unexpected, because it's Vicki, but it was terrible. And her telling Lizzie that Tamra didn't want to come to Lizzie's party seemed more designed to hurt Lizzie than it was to stir shit up with Tamra, IMO. Because Vicki is awful. Even if I find her more entertaining than Tamra.

I love how easily Tamra re-writes history. The grief she and Gretchen gave Vicki over something as innocent as calling her grandson her baby, is just wiped away when Tamra is a grandmother to "her baby." Vicki trying to stay neutral through all of Tamra's shit stirring or not allowing Tamra to dictate who she should date equals Vicki not being supportive and hurtful. She keeps saying that Vicki really hurt her last year, but I can't think of anything that Vicki did to Tamra last year except try to get Tamra to not stir shit between Heather and Shannon, and getting rightfully pissed that Tamra was trying to involve herself in Vicki's love life. Tamra's gift of being able to re-write history is insane.

Not to defend the cheater here, but David didn't insult her breasts. Shannon insulted her breasts while fishing for additional compliments. Remember, he complimented her on her dress. She said that he just liked it because it showed off her breasts and he agreed. Then she said something about them sagging and he agreed. Not whole heartedly, just in an whatever you say kind of way. I actually thought that scene was hilarious. Because I always think it's funny when someone goes fishing for a compliment and it backfires on them.

I think it is a very safe bet that Kyle will continue to do the show. If you look at it from the beginning, Kyle was the center of the show. Yes, Lisa V eclipsed her because of her fabulous-ness, but Kyle still holds the cast together. No matter how you feel about Kyle, the show wouldn't be a show without her. I have never been a fan of hers, but she was the reason I watched the show in the first place. I had never heard of Kim Richards before this show. But, I knew who Kyle was. I have an unhealthy obsession with the original Halloween Movie and the second I saw that Kyle was a Real Housewife, I was in. I expected to LOVE her. But, I found tons of things to snark on her about instead. I don't think that I am alone in that. I think that there are plenty of people who tune in just to see what Kyle will do and make fun of her just for the fun of it. I LOVE making fun of Kyle and I think that she loves us making fun of her. I just think that things got way too raw and too real for her and the people who wanted to make fun of her when it came to Kim. There is no way that Bravo would drop Kyle. She is the reason that this particular franchise even exists. BRAVO knows that it is Kyle's connections to the cast and to future cast members that keeps this show going. As much as I love me some VanderPump, Lisa V. was not the reason that this show got off the ground. Every woman on this show in the first season was someone that Kyle knew. Whether you like her or not, Kyle is the center of the show. BRAVO knows that.They know that even if Kyle leaves, they will still contact her for suggestions on who to cast. I'm down with that, because whether or not I like Kyle, she still brings the people that I either love or love to hate. That said, as much as I get her reasons for bringing Kim on, I really hate the fact that she brought Kim on. Kim has too many dark issues that take away from the fun of the show.

I'm not the poster to which you are responding, but I definitely think that Kyle could have any number of taglines: Some of my friends are morally corrupt, but they are also momentarily correct. My Sister used to hang with Rick James, but so did my other sister and she's a Hilton now! My Husband never stole a house, but just ask how many houses he has sold (ok, that one sucks)! I don't know who my best on-show friend is, but I guarantee I can get good press from her viewer response. I no longer have to pay my sister's bills, but the good sister does! I apologize in advance for not actually being funny in tag line form. I just want to snark on Kyle without the burden of Kim's addiction.

I think that Tamra is smart enough to know that just making shit up won't work. I think it's why she always comes prepared to the reunions with texts and emails to back up her position. What she didn't count on was Vicki being on both Heather and Shannon's sides in person while filming. I think Tamra manipulates behind the scenes. She sends a lot of texts and emails and does not seem above forwarding things that were meant to be sent in confidence. I have absolutely no doubt that she told everyone about the intent to "Take the Beadors down." But, I think she only committed it to text to people like Vicki who she expected to toe the line. Now, whether or not Terry actually said it (I do think he did in one of his Napoleon - "I am a big man" moments). is a different story. What Tamra didn't count on was that Shannon and David had friends off camera who weren't afraid to commit things to text, and who also knew Heather. Remember, Heather had lunch with her off camera friends almost immediately after her filmed lunch with Tamra. Heather talked about what she and Tamra had filmed and that conversation got back to David and Shannon. Tamra didn't count on connections outside of the show to bring her down when it came to Shannon. By the time she was aware that Shannon had gone back to Heather as the source, everything Vicki told her about how Tamra would lose against Heather became clear in her mind. For me, that was when the gaslighting plan began. ETA: While Tamra is totally devious/smart enough to gaslight someone, she is nowhere near educated enough to understand the term.

Yeah, I think that Tamra's downfall was that she was spread too thin. She originally tried to make Heather the target, but she realized that she would lose against Heather and Heather's actual money and standing would be no match for her. So, she tried to make Shannon the target, but didn't count on Vicki not going along with her or on the fact that Shannon was more than willing to call her and Heather out on their BS.