MatildaMoody

So Reality Tea did a Throwback Thursday post featuring Kim Richards. In light of all of her substance abuse issues, two pictures in particular really stood out for me. How was Kathy able to avoid going down the same path that Kim did? They obviously partied together and considering the company, it was definitely hard core partying. Kim is extremely lucky that she did not end up like Dana Plato, although I suspect that having wealthy people support her is the only thing that has kept her alive this long.

That's how I remember it as well. I think Carole was annoyed and possibly offended that Luann would put her friends in an awkward position after she had already done Luann a favor involving those friends. If Luann had simply emailed or had an assistant email the way these things normally happen, I doubt Ranjana would have even brought it up to Carole in the first place. It would have been business as usual. But because Luann was asking directly, it became more awkward because they were basically put on the spot.

Just a minor point, but all of the women asked for a salary increase for hair and makeup, not just Carole. It was part of all of their salary negotiations and it was speculated that Lu's salary demands also played into why she was demoted to Friend of. As for the borrowing of the dress, I also thought that was tacky. She friend jumped when that friend had already delivered a favor. For me, it was the timing of the ask more than anything else. The couple had already made an allowance for the jewelry. You would think she could have been happy with that and at least done something nice for them before asking for another favor. I get that it is just something that even d-list celebrities do, but it seems like there is also a protocol involved. The designer would have felt put on the spot when declining Luann directly versus declining to a marketing assistant. The whole thing was just awkward and poorly handled on Luann's part. ETA: The scenario reminded me of that surfing incident between Luann and Bethenny. Bethenny was planing to take surfing lessons, Luann invited herself to the outing, and because she felt she was invited, she believed Bethenny should pay. Not the same situation, granted, but again it is an example of Luann not really reading the confines of the interaction correctly.

This actually made me wonder about Kim's immediate request to use the bathroom when she got to LisaR's house on Poker Night. I would assume they would let her use a guest bathroom and not their actual one, but I wouldn't be surprised if she rifles through the medicine cabinets of pretty much anyone who lets her into their homes.

Wow! Toulene? Huffing would totally explain her behavior on Poker Night. No way she was that wasted from a single pain pill.

I don't know what her mother did for a living. I just remember the scene of Nene taking a ghostwriter to what was supposed to be her mother's Athens house - I actually know that house as I used to live near that neighborhood. And it was locked up and she was spinning some story about it being her mother's summer home when she wasn't in New York and then she talked about how she came to visit her Aunt and her aunt loved her so much she wouldn't let her mother take her back to New York. The second she told that story, I knew that Nene's mother simply didn't want the responsibility of raising her because there was no way her aunt could have stopped her mom from taking her back to New York with her. And I think either out of desperation or delusion, Nene stubbornly stuck to that story rather than admit to herself or us that her mother abandoned her in favor of another family. That was one of the few moments when I actually felt for Nene because there was some obvious damage there that she did not want to address. I don't think the interviews were performed by TT. I just think that she likes to find "proof" regardless of how reputable it may be to back up her bashing of particular HW, even though she claims she does not believe in "hate blogging." Again, nothing against her. I enjoy most of her posts. I just know to take anything she says about Nene or Kenya with a grain of salt and a lot of side eye.

No, you missed the point of my question. How do we know that she didn't say something to Reid on camera and simply didn't make the show?

How do we know that Carol didn't say something to Reid? I mean most of the things that you are calling out as her thinking she is hot and/or putting the other women down was filmed in a talking head. Her laughing at something Reid said could have been "get along to go along" or simply spliced in footage. Not saying either of those things is the case, but it is just as likely that it is the case as it is that her talking heads are being used by production to provide a narrative to the actual footage. I can get behind the idea that Carole is smug, she totally is. They all are and, depending on how much you like or dislike a certain HW the smugness seems greater or lesser. But, I like to view all of the housewives, even the ones that I truly dislike, through the same lens when it comes to production influence. What I really enjoyed about earlier seasons of all of the housewives, was that the talking heads used to be a simple punctuation to a scene. Now, so much of the drama is created based on what was said in a talking head. And, now that I know that the TH's were filmed so long after the season wrapped and was largely dictated by a producer question, I only look to them for a funny one liner or a groan/snark worthy attempt at comedy. I never count on them as part of the actual film narrative of the women interacting with each other anymore. That said, I don't dislike Carole as much as others do. I don't love her as much as others do either. I just think of her the way I think of all of these crazy HO's. Some of their bullshit is really them. Some of their bullshit is put on for the show. Most of their bullshit is producer influenced. I always think about how much I disliked Heather in her first season and then how much I liked her in her second season. Then I think about OC's Heather, and how much I disliked her in her first season, only be proven right in my dislike in her subsequent seasons. I try to keep my like/dislike of any HW fluid.

I honestly thought that Bethenny was joking with Heather because she kept saying no one was mad at Heather for being late. To me, Bethenny's defensive manner and rapid fire delivery just makes most of her "Patented Bethenny Frankel One Liners (TM SkinnyGirl)" fall flat. She is slowly getting into the groove of working with the new women versus being a bit more understanding/protective of the ones that were filming during her tenure. Honestly, I think the reason, Bethenny keeps saying how much she enjoyed filming this season has just as much to do with her finding a groove with the other women later in the season as it does her wanting to be on TV and hawk her products. I've yet to see anything in real time that makes me think that Bethenny is completely on the outs with Heather. I haven't seen anything that makes me think that Heather hates or has a current feud with Heather either. From what I can see so far, both Bethenny and Heather have been feeling each other out to find the line of where they can work together as two alphas in a group of Real Housewives.

My only point with the part that you quoted is that I take anything that TT says regarding Nene with a huge grain of salt due to her very loudly and proudly stated bias against her. Of course it is up to the blogger to give their opinion. And, I don't think anyone should ever get on the "I hate [insert housewife name here]" train because it makes for less snarking and more point proving, which is less entertaining for me as a reader and commenter. ETA: I like TT's blog. I don't read the comments very often because they get really gnarly and antagonistic towards each other. But, I have no issue with TT. I just wanted to point out that I disagree with her assessment that Nene is lying about being abandoned and I feel like the only reason she is calling Nene a liar on this is because of her hatred of Nene and love for Kenya.

I don't want to get too off topic here. But, I think it is patently obvious that Nene's mother did in fact abandon her as a child. Back when I watched the show, I remember her trying to spin this story about how she came to visit her Aunt and ended up living with her and being raised by that part of the family because they just couldn't bear to let her mom take her away - because they loved Nene so much. I always always thought that was a story they made up to tell a child whose mother didn't want her, and that Nene held onto that story into adulthood out of desperation even when she knew it couldn't possibly be true. Also, from what I have read of Tamara Tattles, she despises Nene and will find anything she possibly can to make her the loser in the Kenya/Nene feud, even going so far as to believe every lie Kenya has ever told. To bring this back on topic, I believe that in the Kim/Nene face off, Nene would win simply because she hasn't had a lifetime full of money and enabling that Kim has had. All of this stroking of the ego and having someone else pay to make sure she was taken care of is new to Nene whereas it has been Kim's expectation since she was a child.

My remark about them not sealing the records had nothing to do with Bethenny or Jason's privacy and everything to do with Bryn's. Because of them being on a reality show, I know they forfeited their right to certain privacy constraints. But, I would think that because of precisely that, they would both do what they could to protect Bryn's privacy. I don't know anything about how all of this stuff works, thank goodness. My parents are still married after 5 children and 40 years and I am still married after 11 years myself. So, I feel very grateful that I never had to learn the ins and outs of something like this as a child or an adult. So, if it isn't the norm for these types of cases to be sealed, so be it. But, if there is even a small opportunity to keep anything having to do with Bryn private, I think they should jump on it.

But Carole didn't tie her banging body into a conversation. She looked at a scantily clad dancer and then in a talking head made a quip about how she would have been a stripper if she had known she would have this body at 50. It wasn't bragging to anyone or even said obnoxiously. It was a quick line in a talking head interview in which we have no idea what the production question that led to it was.

I wondered about that too. I am noticing a pattern with Bethenny and the new versus original Housewives. No matter what issues she seems to have with the originals, she really doesn't want to discuss the originals with the newcomers. Whether it's to gossip or throw shade, or just tell an anecdote. Is it possible that she may actually feel protective of them when it comes to the newer women? Like she had issues with Ramona coming in, but pretty much wanted to shut Heather down when Heather wanted to discuss Ramona. She has been extremely patient with Sonja. And then that reaction to Carole saying Luann wasn't European. It's all very strange.

Odd. I didn't see the Berlin Wall thing as a dis. I thought it was something Ramona herself would say (you know when she has her moments of not mangling metaphors). The not fitting in one of her dresses seemed much more shady to me than the Berlin Wall thing or even the everyone gets phone numbers after midnight. I actually saw her as including herself in the after midnight one. But the Berlin Wall thing just seemed like a funny way to state the obvious - that Ramona had not dated a really long time but she still has it going on.

I agree. I also think that it is especially important to think highly of your body when it does not fit whatever beauty standards are prevalent. The fact that someone who is stick thin like Carole could be super proud of her body and shape in the world where everyone is trying to look like a Kardashian is a great and refreshing thing to me. There is already so much body shaming out there, that being proud of your body no matter what size should be applauded and not denigrated for not having enough humility. Women spend their entire lives making comments about their bodies in a backwards notion of "this is how I show that I have humility and am humble and not a braggart." In actuality, they are practicing self hate so that others don't hate them first.

I remember that differently. Both Bethenny and Jason filed for primary custody according the court documents that neither of them bothered to have sealed for Bryn's sake. Jason either additionally filed for joint custody or later changed his filing to joint. But, whatever the case, the initial filing on both sides was the same with Jason winning additional points for adding joint custody to his petition. I remember being kind of disgusted with the blogs at that time because instead of just posting the court documents, they were busy highlighting that Jason included joint custody in his petition but ignored the fact that both Bethenny and Jason filed for the same thing, at least initially. I remember seeing the court documents posted on TWOP and a few other places and thought it was odd that so many people were vilifying Bethenny and ignoring Jason's full filing.

The only reason I asked is because of all of the speculation that the two were still sleeping together or that she thought they were getting back together as the reasons for Luann's outrage. I don't believe either of those things and wanted to know where this speculation was coming from if Nicole has never spoken about any of this publicly. I get that she isn't a part of the story, but Luann has invoked her as part of the story.

Here is my thing about Bethenny and Jason. When they first got together during Real Housewives, I never doubted that they were an actual couple who truly liked each other. Bethenny actually looked smitten in all of those pre-pregnancy scenes she had with him. And she looked downright giddy when he said that he wanted some sort of commitment before they officially moved in together. So, I don't think she was simply using him as a sperm bank, because I saw no evidence of that. I think the first real red flag for me about their relationship was how anxious Jason was to get married. I think Bethenny would have been just as content to have the baby and get married later, but Jason really didn't want that. And when Bethenny wanted to elope or do something really simple, Jason pushed the formal wedding. Which would not have been such a big deal to me if he had taken the time to involve himself in the actual planning. I think that was when I realized that Jason was not the nice guy that he seemed. He put all of that pressure on her to have a wedding that he wanted but did nothing to help her plan it. It's why Bethenny Getting Married? was the only spin off of hers that I watched. I just couldn't stand Jason after that and absolutely refused to believe that he cared about her as anything other than a meal ticket. And knowing how stubborn Bethenny was, she would refuse to see that she had made a huge mistake with him and that just didn't sound like an entertaining prospective show for me.

So here is what I am confused about. Other than the fact that none of this was an issue for Lu until a few weeks ago, do we actually know where Nicole stands on it? I mean I keep reading posts about "friends with benefits" and that Adam used Nicole and lied to Carol. But, other than Lu throwing that out there on Twitter has either Adam or Nicole said a single word about any of this?

Yep, I'm with you on that.

Yes she has. They are her trademark at this point. At one point in time, when she and Harry had their own reality show, she had the implants removed, and it left some very strange scarring. So, I can't remember if she simply started going the injection route or had more implants added, but those lips are definitely her thing.

Can someone provide the exact transcript of Carol's talking head without the footage before or after? I don't remember thinking it was all that awful as a TH on it's own, but there seems to be a disconnect that I am completely missing based on the comments here. If you can't provide the exact transcript of just her talking head, can you point me to a link that contains the talking head even with the before and after footage? I always find that reading the exact transcript of the talking head helps me decide whether it actually relates to the scenes before and after, or if it is simply something that was cut into the footage because it seemed to fit and made for more drama.

I am so glad I could contribute, and I hope this discussion isn't deleted. I love words and I love when a word is used literally, even though I understand that sometimes the literal interpretation is lost in the translation of how we use words in modern parlance. MissMel's use of the word "slur" made sense to me (I tend to do better with the literal in general), but I also understood that many would assume that she meant it was racially indicative and I wanted to make sure I understood both her point and yours. And I am glad that you didn't bow out of this discussion. I think there is so much that we can learn if we treat the Housewives as an anthropological study. This is awesome, Kathy Hilton managed to bring up all of the things that my grandmother taught me by using a single phrase on Twitter. Where else in the world can you get that kind of education? Hell, where else in the world is Kathy Hilton responsible for this type of intellectual discourse?

You're welcome :). I thought you explained it just fine. I think that the only confusion was that you used the word "slur" in it's literal definition and in our PC world, that would definitely throw people off when trying to get across such an immediate emotional response to a cultural phrase.