Yolapukka

I don't think either woman was meant to be significant, they were just minor ingredients in a dish that didn't need them at all, Betsy was supposed to be a bit of spice, Zoe was filler. I like Zoe, but I don't need to ever see her again, nothing depends on her presence. Betsy was a mistake. I appreciated the idea of her kick-ass self, it's certainly preferable to an ineffectual witch who struggles to remain conscious, but she was a jarring mess of tropes and anachronisms, plus there was all the WTFuckery of her mere presence in the timeline. She might have worked rejigged as a minor fairytale character on OUAT but she didn't work in this supernatural universe at all.

This. I'm sure the box will be in play, but it's the absence of it that will be significant, not Ichabod's access to it. From what I saw, it's not where it was if it still exists at all. Was it irrevocably destroyed and what are the consequences of that destruction? Is it elsewhere? If so, where or what is elsewhere? Is it something broken that requires a specific sort of fix? I'm sure we are going to see Ichabod wrestling with the morality of what is necessary for him to bring Abbie back, but I don't think it will be as simple as opening the box to let a controlled selection of monsters out to make the tree blossom again. The box must be either located or reassembled first and it's nature defined, is it a container or a portal?

IMDB is not the final word on anything, nevertheless, Nicole is listed as in the cast for all upcoming episodes.

Good, this show needs people losing their minds and talking, just as long as the takeaway isn't "they totes killed Abbie and fired Nicole! Don't watch!!!" I'd say it would be damn near like BTVS killing off Buffy except they actually did kill her, just not "off". (Of course there is a small selection of fruitcakes that actually want the leading lady gone. I think they will be very sad to tune in and find her stuck in a tree instead.)

Loved. it. More build, mega suspense and a whole lot of eventful plot packed into a single episode. I really do believe they've effectively reset the series according to their own ideas and it's wonderful. Not a return to season one and the bat-crap crazy delight that it was, but something that legitimately comes from that start point and succeeds on it's own terms.

I don't think the Patty thing is that relevant to the actual plot. if you caught it during the show great, if all was illuminated when you saw Talking Dead, nice, but it was not a key point upon which an understanding of the episode hinged, there was no need to know Patty meant the truck because that wasn't the point of anything, anymore than knowing last week that the walker Jessie ended was Betsy and that she'd killed herself changed anything. The presence of the truck near the motorcycle could have been totally random and the three rando idiots could have just as easily been distracted over a missing companion outside the truck yard without it changing anything crucial. It's just details, It's great to catch what they precisely are because we are all so fond of arguing about What It All Really Means but the main plot points of the episode don't really change because we don't catch little background things, even those that tie together. It's only significant if we base entire elaborate theories on something misunderstood, and then it's only significant to not feeling silly afterwards. I find it satisfying to catch meaningful details, but I think it would annoy the crap out of me if that stuff was present in a way that was all-caps, bold-faced, IMPORTANT, I'd find it condescending and heavy-handed and this show already tends to lay things on a bit thick.

.... and being watched in return.

I can't ship them. I found his pass at Sasha off-putting, his words and attitude would have dumped a cold bucket of water over me if I'd been in her shoes and hitherto attracted. The Rosita issue is kind of squicky since they all presumably live under the same roof and if they don't, they are next door to one another. I don't know what their status as fuck-buddies is, but it still would be a pretty freaking weird situation. I've wanted to see Rosita move on from him for a while, but a mutual parting of ways seems preferable to essentially being dumped, particularly dumped for someone I enjoyed seeing Rosita interact and bond with.

I enjoyed the show overall, great fight sequences and a whole lot of pretty. A lot of the world it's set in seems to be unlikely, but that's what the premise is and it works for me overall. As others have mentioned, I'm not so taken out by the lack of guns as the lack of archery. Also the young regent needs to die sooner than later, his outstandingly bad acting was the worst part of the show and he seems like an important douchebag whose important douchey loyalties are going to be important to the plot, so we're probably going to have to put up with an awful lot of whatever it is that he's doing . Someone needs to whup him upside the head in the hopes that his setting will no longer be stuck on scowl. I think you're right, I'm sure I remember that mansion and slave quarters from a documentary series I saw about the Mississippi, IIRC it's called the Evergreen Plantation and it was in the part that featured Louisiana.

I would be so bored by this show if there were no noobs and redshirts, just the core cast wandering forever on the road and alternating walker trouble with bad-people trouble. I enjoyed this weeks random idiots and the pursuing baddies are obviously going to have more to say than Argh-chomp. Zombies have really fucking boring dialogue. It's like they've got nothing to say. I thought pixie-twit might get wacky due to high blood sugar and do something boneheaded but instead she got straightened out and still managed to be bone-headed enough to cuddle the recently dead. I assume we'll see more of the other two in the future, even if they're just identifiable smears on the road when Daryl gets the bike back. I don't care that they took the stupid bike, because it's, well... stupid. I do care that they took the cross-bow. It would have been a little less scummy if they'd taken it from him for their own protection and dropped it when they were too far away for Daryl to catch up and use it against them. I don't blame them for having no interest in and even hostility to another "safe" place, they just left one and it had obviously turned into an ugly trap. In their shoes I quite probably would have got as far away from Daryl as possible myself once he started talking along those lines, especially when they saw he had some convenient transportation that could get two people far away from a bad spot.

I think this season has had an increasing sense of excitement, I'm really enjoying so many bread-crumbs coming together. I love that and I thought there was a great sense of momentum in this week's plot, both within the episode and for the seasonal arc. I thought it was excellent. I wish the season had kicked off with something that had a similar sense of excitement rather than an episode that was a relative dud, though I did find things to enjoy in it. I have to wonder if the investigation of Nevins is straightforward law enforcement work or if it originates in an X-files type special division that Daniels may or may not know about, in an "above his pay grade" sort of a way? The twist with Sopie, the undercover agent could have very bad implications for Crane's attempts to achieve citizenship. It was an awesome twist, BTW.

That's what I'd been wondering when she mentioned the dowry and then I really started considering the possibility when Pete Mensah was cast as an upcoming significant villain, because it sounded like he'd be a regular. I am very glad that they seem to be going there.

I really didn't go sour until the last episode, when Daniel's stupid and evil rescue plan unleashed a horde which led to the deaths of hundreds in one night, likely countless more over time and most unforgivably, led to the death of Liza, the only character I felt fully invested in. My wish for season 2 is for that fucker to perish, I'm sure Ruben Blades will act the hell out of it. Also, I hope his final act is to take Madison down with him. I mostly hate her.

Meh, I watched Homicide; Life On The Street for 5 of it's seven years on the air in the Friday death slot. IIRC, all it was expected to do was beat Nash Bridges in the ratings and I don't think it ever pulled even that off. Mind you, it was a critical darling that won awards, not a genre show that squandered it's potential. SH is still fun to watch though. What I've been reading in reviews is more positive than not, but definitely can be described as mixed.

My son found it and we spent an afternoon watching it and killing ourselves laughing. Then we had to spend a day convincing my husband that Carl wasn't actually singing any of that stuff.

When the show was at it's best, Abbie was the clear lead and Crane was her partner, If either of them was to have been relegated to sidekick, it was him as the goofball fish out water. The show works best when Abbie's viewpoint is the one written to. Crane works well as the hook to hang the show on but Abbie is the relatable character. If the new showrunners really want to course-correct, they have get back to what kept the show grounded and and use that base to get a little crazy and take some risks, because so far they've been playing it safe and formulaic. They are depending too heavily on the MOW to thrill but some of the monsters have looked just plain silly and there have been few moments that managed to startle or scare, although there still have been some. If I'd had my druthers they would have kept C Thomas Howell on as Abbies' boss for longer than a single episode and they could still have introduced Daniels as a fellow agent. There would have been more shock attached to boss-dude's death if we hadn't known he was doomed shortly.

Taking my answer to the therapy thread

I'm fine with keeping the Abraham part of the horseman as long as it doesn't lead to the head returning with more whinging from him over his broken heart or from Ichabod over his guilt as a shitty friend. He is still tied to evil, but now it's less service of a specific evil than bedevilling the man who stole his fiancee and was responsible for her death. I do like the idea of trying to neuter him by releasing Abraham's soul only to have it backfire. That could make for a good arc in a future season. My unpopular opinion? everything is fine, fine! and the show is totally going to be back for another season. Less an unpopular opinion than crackpot wishful thinking, really.

I tend to think Moonlighting is an awful example of the dire consequences of bringing together a teased couple. Speaking as a fan of the initial seasons I lost interest as a regular viewer because there was no meat to the teasing, just increasingly contrived roadblocks. There was something badly off about the two stars interactions as time went on, so it was no surprise when news of backstage feuding broke. That antipathy fed the banter, but it made moments that were actually supposed to be romantic very uncomfortable to watch. Pairing them was less fan-service than a desperate attempt to prop declining ratings and like many couples that are all tease, they were awful together, not least because all the forced separation had done a good job of establishing why they were actually a terrible couple. (see also "Friends", Ross and Rachel, the only reason I wanted those two together by the end was I wouldn't wish them on anyone else.) One of the reasons I love the witnesses is romantic is the least of their chemistry, they have ample connection on all levels, their success as a pair does not rise and fall on whether they they can muster sparks (which they do). By least of their chemistry I don't mean inferior, I mean least explored, it's an aspect of their interactions that was dropped midway through season one when the show decided to play with the notion that Katrina could be rescued from purgatory (which ought to have meant passing into the next life) and then actually did so and centred her in the main cast, like she was some sort of surprise breakout character instead of a droning bore. Heres the thing about romance on this show, anything involving the witnesses with others is not going to work out. As well as upsetting fans of the ship it's just not on with anyone else, it's never going to be much more than a c-level plot and a distraction and when it intrudes into the main plot it's because that other person is a liability who is endangered and needs rescue. Abbie and Ichabod have a destiny that puts those who are close to them in danger, both personal danger and danger of being a tool of the other side. That can be a compelling story, but when you know where it's going to go before it goes anywhere, it's hard to get invested in a minor character and when they try to make that character important, they risk another Katrina-style disaster. Ichabod and Abbie already have solid bonds that have survived a lot, including acts of bad faith on Ichabod's part and Abbie's tendency to keep her emotions private. These two aren't about longing looks, missed connections and sad-faced pining. If they get together, it should be a lively joyful thing to watch.

I'm not sure the short break between the two halves of the last season was useful either, that second half seemed to just fly by and I almost missed the start. With the change in nights, the wider gap gives them more of a window to promote the change and less of a gap between one season and the next, if there is a next. I think the wide gap between the end of last season and the beginning of this one hurt viewership. Poor promotion didn't help.

I didn't hate the episode, Overall, I enjoyed it but I thought it would have played better last week, since it essentially represents a break from the tension of the other zombie parade day episodes while building towards the next dire event. In fact my real problem with the episode is that it comes after the Morgan episode which also stepped away from the tension. One after the other, it's just annoying. I really don't know where they are going with this character, they certainly mean for him to have a place, but is it as a character who has a defined arc wherein he proves himself or just as a designated douche-bag who lets everybody down and dies an ignoble death? Because the selfishness shown in the pantry raid could go either way, it could either be a low point or a defining action.. I think they are also drawing a parallel between Deanna's ability to lead and her history as a parent, she (and Reg) raised two sons who are overconfident, underskilled, weak-minded in a crisis and tend to point fingers when they encounter a problem beyond their abilities, her community is filled with people who lack necessary survival and fighting skills, few take responsibility for the welfare of others and those that do are taken for granted. She covered for Spencer's pilfering by taking the food back (and nearly got killed by the one remaining walker) even though he's a grown-ass man because she didn't want him exposed. As leader of Alexandria, she was selectively blind to Pete's drinking and abuse of his family until he slashed Reg to death, prior to that she was unwilling to expose herself to the admission that she'd committed a grievous error in how Pete had been indulged. She wanted to pretend that Pete was "better" but still covered for him when it was clear he was not, when that lead to the fight with Rick, she was ready to take Pete's side and expel Rick until Drunky Pete's violence had the cost of her husband's life. Her willingness to avoid containing difficult issues has greater costs in the long run, costs which may not be predictable consequences, but are still part of a linear progression. Why did no-one question and change Reg's decision to put the wall supports on the outside? Perhaps at the time it seemed expedient but did they all defer to his position as an architect and Deanna's husband? One thing I appreciate about Rick, is despite all the Ricktatorship moments, he considers and accepts the counsel of others and is motivated by the concern of protecting his people, not protecting his place of precedence. It's not lost on me that part of Deanna's motivation in siding with Pete was due to the challenge Rick's mere existence represented to her position. A sewer is properly any underground or sunken conduit for carrying away water. There are different terms for different types of sewers, depending on locale, such as sanitary sewer, storm sewer, rain sewer, foul sewer, waste sewer, storm drain, surface water drain or (unfortunately) combined sewer. I think maybe where you're from the generic term sewer is used for one specific type. Either way It's still a disgusting place to walk, obviously the type used for runoff water is considerably less disgusting, though I can imagine it would be pretty horrible to encounter the corpse of a small dead animal, never mind two mostly rotted zombies. I thought it was kind of convenient and by convenient I mean bullshit, that the exit was so close to the community that they were still within the area of the horde. Yet another reason to have a second fence-line, as well as being a conduit out for water, it could be a conduit in for invaders.

"She lifts right out" would be a perfect thread title for Betsy, except then we'd have a thread dedicated to a pointless character of no consequence. One of my biggest problems with her is one I had with Katrina, her mere presence necessitates tearing Ichabod down to make her matter. In the guise of writing background for Ichabod, they've created a character who takes story that should have been written for him and undermines him as a proactive, admirable person of action and principle. They've excised Captain Crane out of his own narrative and replaced him with a colonial era taxi driver who chatted a lot with an oddly dressed passenger. They started the season telling us she was his partner, but he was clearly her sidekick/ getaway driver. The only way this is an improvement over the worthless witch is she's not eating the show and Abbie, at least continues to be a character in her own right, as opposed to last season when they often tried to reduce her to the sidekick's sidekick.

It was certainly the final tipping point for me.

Assuming Abbie is fully supporting him with money out of her own pocket is as much fanwank as how he might be earning his own income. We've seen nothing to support either side of things. Abbie dropping off groceries at Corbin's cabin doesn't count, all that inescapably proves is she went to the grocery store and he didn't. Also, he was bunking for free (probably) at a place Abbie had access, to , if not ownership of. Either way, it's fun to snark about his lack of paid work or speculate on whatever legitimate employment or odd jobs in the underground economy might be keeping him in pin money. I tend to think she was paying most or all of the bills in the first two seasons but after the red-headed millstone finally provided great joy by diebitchdying, part of his walkabout involved paid work. After all, he was no longer needed to linger at her side lest she need a comfy throw pulled over her slumbering form. Anyway, it doesn't look like Ichabod is a lavish spender on dates.

I enjoyed the episode, I felt it held together well from beginning to end. I finally got a sense of structure from the Pandora story and it led into a great sense of anticipation over what is to come. The way Reynolds was used in the episode was a good development and they had some interesting moments, plus his memory loss was a useful way of hand-waving his experience of his normal life intersecting with Abbie's ties to the supernatural. There is a reason I've complained about the current disconnect between Abbie's job and her duty as a witness leading to Ichabod tagging along unchallenged to crime scenes swarming with investigators. In season one that sort of thing informed story, while for most of the initial episodes this season it was just kind of... there, flat and inert. For me those little rationales and details add up to convincing world-building, not how many extras you can muster for a scene. Not that I'm complaining that Sleepy Hollow now has a visible population and no longer seems like everyone is at home and in bed while mayhem ensues. Ichabod's presence was well incorporated into the crime scenes this episode, in one, he literally walked into it as it was happening, in the other, he was not there except by phone. As a consequence Abbie interacted with Reynolds so it was a win for me, even if he was in a peevish mood due to that potentially fatal bug sting. I'm scared for Jenny, those nightmare/possession scenes creeped me out. She doesn't seem to have told Joe about the shard being absorbed into her hand, I wonder if there is a reason for that. The scene in the herbalists shop was good. I was kind of amused by his non-specific vaguely African, vaguely Caribbean accent. I don't know what the heck that was supposed to be, maybe his backstory is that the accent is totally fake but he puts it on because he thinks it makes him sound hot. I didn't mind Betsy this episode, I thought she was well-used for a change and I loved that the show gave themselves an excuse to use Grace. I think in too many of the memories that feature both her and Crane, his role is comparatively passive and rather than give her purpose, it just makes me feel that she doesn't really need to be there, much the same thing could be written without her presence and we'd get to see Captain Crane, not screwball Ichabod. I'm not sure why she is so often dealing with the same phenomena as Abbie and Crane, are they suggesting that she may have been a witness(?) or some other significant target of Pandora or did TPTB just not consider that it would look like it was adding up to something when it meant nothing at all? The Zoe scenes were again cute, sweet and funny. I don't really care about her or the romance, such as it is, but I'm neither bored nor offended by her time on screen. She's such a little fluffy rabbit and she's probably doomed, poor thing, either that or a figment sent by Pandora.