Ragnar Lothbrok: Earl Of Bad Dads

[David T. Cole]

Leader of the pack, raider of England, bad dad.

[Zalyn]

Travis Fimmel always looks like he's trying to eyefuck anyone/anything he's looking at. I still haven't decided whether it supports or distracts from Ragnar as a character, but it certainly gives lots of captionable scenes.

[atomationage]

Travis Fimmel always looks like he's trying to eyefuck anyone/anything he's looking at.

And now he's eyefucking at just the idea of being reunited with Aethelstan. 

After the Blood Eagle episode, I hate Ragnar Lothbrook.

[Ohwell]

I'm just glad I don't know Travis Fimmel, because with those eyes, I'd get in his pickup truck and cross my fingers and hope I'd make it out alive.  I'd take that chance.

[PatsyandEddie]

So would I, Ohwell! This guy has some serious animal magnetism about him.  Makes you want to drop your panties and/or take up your sword no matter whether you are a man or a woman. 

[Zalyn]

So would I, Ohwell! This guy has some serious animal magnetism about him.  Makes you want to drop your panties and/or take up your sword no matter whether you are a man or a woman. 

I am now imagining a roomful of people dropping trou and grabbing their swords (or "swords") when RagnarLothbrok walks into the room.  It's like a Game of Thrones crossover!

I've started rewatching, and it's still not clear who was more interested in bringing Aethelstan in for a threesome - Lagertha or Ragnar.  It was such a great scene to offer a big contrast to Christianity regarding sexual tastes.

[heyerchick]

I have to look at Ragnar as a product of his times, culture and religion. His values flow like water, always situationally flexible.

 

Take the issue of consent. The show has carefully absented him from the raping part of the Viking raping and pillaging; he respected Lagertha's right to consent or refuse sex; when he wanted to have sex with Athelstan, he and Lagertha approached Athelstan and asked him to join them, where Ragnar would have been within his rights as Athelstan's owner to use him as he saw fit, as casually as Rolo used Floki's slave/servant girl; yet he forced his wife Aslaug into sex before the precious three days were up after his return to rescue them from squalor, and she fulfilled her prophecy of giving birth to a 'monster.' 

 

I don't think Ragnar is a character coloured within the lines. He seems to react to and to treat people very individually. Lagertha, Athelstan and Aslaug, they all hold unique places in his heart. I think he would cheerfully have sex with Athelstan if Athelstan was open to it, but even without those physical expressions, there's no doubting that Ragnar feels a deep, abiding affection for him. I think that may partly be about them being kindred spirits, in the sense that both think outside the box their culture, time and religion prescribe. They have this in common with Ecbert, this sense that they're something more, something deeper than those around them. Even so, I've been a little surprised at how bound up in Athelstan's fate Ragnar has been shown to be this season. It's a definite oddity, given Athelstan is not a wife or a brother or a trusted warrior or a friend like Leif. Enjoyable, because I adore Athelstan (I love the characters who are fucked, my current triumvirate is Kurt Hummel on the awful Glee, Will Graham on the batshit crazy Hannibal and Athelstan on Vikings, every one of them suffering every ill conceivable in their genre).

Edited April 24, 2014 by heyerchick

[green]

I was surprised that the old 1950's movie was about Ragnar and Ivar.  From Wikipedia:

 

"In The Vikings, a film of 1958, Ragnar, played by Ernest Borgnine, is captured by King Ælla of Northumbria and cast into a pit of wolves. His son Einar (presumably a variation of the historical Ivar), played by Kirk Douglas, vows revenge and conquers Northumbria."

 

After seeing Travis Fimmel in the role it is hard to imagine Ragnar portrayed by Ernest Borgnine.  And who knew Kirk Douglas was boneless, hah.  Also that snakes morphed into wolves.

 

Wikipedia also mentioned that:

 

" Ragnar Lothbrok's shipwreck, capture, and execution, as well as his sons' revenge, are portrayed in Harry Harrison's alternative history novel The Hammer and the Cross, the first of a trilogy."

 

Anyone here ever see/read this?  And what is "alternative" history?  History set to grunge music (cough)?

 

Also Ragnar seems to have made it into many a computer (video) game as well as a couple of music albums.  I feel I am so late to the party.  Oh yeah, Ragnar is the official name of the mascot of the Minnesota Vikings.  LOL.

 

One thing Wikipedia missed referencing Ragnar in popular culture was that the arsenal the Battlestar Galactica accessed in the miniseries pilot was Ragnar Anchorage.  I remember at the time thinking that Ragnar sounded like a cool place name and sort of Viking-ish but little did I know.

Edited April 24, 2014 by green

[CommodusMad1]

So would I, Ohwell! This guy has some serious animal magnetism about him.  Makes you want to drop your panties and/or take up your sword no matter whether you are a man or a woman. 

 

Hahahaaaaaaaa! It's funny 3 days ago on YouTube I've watched an interview of Travis Fimmel, he was on a LA Good Morning show, he shamelessly flirted with the anchor girl, it was awkward hilarious.

I'd love to hang out with the chap. He seems very quiet/bored in interviews but I'm sure he is something else after a few beers.

[heyerchick]

Stick him anywhere near George Blagden, and watch both the flirting and teasing dial up to 11. Fimmel has a wicked streak :)

[Zalyn]

I think that may partly be about them being kindred spirits, in the sense that both think outside the box their culture, time and religion prescribe. They have this in common with Ecbert, this sense that they're something more, something deeper than those around them. Even so, I've been a little surprised at how bound up in Athelstan's fate Ragnar has been shown to be this season. It's a definite oddity, given Athelstan is not a wife or a brother or a trusted warrior or a friend like Leif. Enjoyable, because I adore Athelstan (I love the characters who are fucked, my current triumvirate is Kurt Hummel on the awful Glee, Will Graham on the batshit crazy Hannibal and Athelstan on Vikings, every one of them suffering every ill conceivable in their genre).

Great analysis of Ragnar in the context of his society.  I agree that there are a lot of similarities between Ragnar and Ecbert; they are both visionaries who question how things are done now while yearning for something more.  Athelstan serves as both a grounding force and an inspirational one - a true priest - who doesn't demand they seek his approval, but who nonetheless makes them crave it.

One thing Wikipedia missed referencing Ragnar in popular culture was that the arsenal the Battlestar Galactica accessed in the miniseries pilot was Ragnar Anchorage.  I remember at the time thinking that Ragnar sounded like a cool place name and sort of Viking-ish but little did I know.

Whoa, good find!  (BSG fan)    This is one thing I find that I enjoy about watching/reading historical fiction: it inspires me to go look up and learn about the characters referenced to learn the real history about them.  I think that if the audience is willing to do that independent research, these types of media can be awesome learning opportunities.  I'm only now realizing how important Ragnar was as a figure in that history.

[PatsyandEddie]

   This is one thing I find that I enjoy about watching/reading historical fiction: it inspires me to go look up and learn about the characters referenced to learn the real history about them.  I think that if the audience is willing to do that independent research, these types of media can be awesome learning opportunities.  I'm only now realizing how important Ragnar was as a figure in that history.

I spend a lot of time on line researching historical events when I'm reading historical fiction. Even if the actual novel is fluff, the truth behind it can be very exciting and enlightening.

Still laughing at Ragnar being played by Ernest Borgnine. I do believe I've seen that movie! *showing my age*

[duckyone]

I think we also have to realize that one of the reasons Ragnar wants Athelstan back is because he is an incredibly valuable military asset. He is the key that helped Ragnar unlock the West. He taught him their language and customs, how their governments and military work and the most valuable places to raid. This also applies to Ecbert because he now has someone who can do the same thing for him in regards to the Northmen.

 

While I believe that Ragnar has developed an intense friendship with Athelstan, there are also very practical reasons he is so invested in getting him back.

[CommodusMad1]

Ragnar likes Athelstan for practical and personal reasons indeed. I think with Athelstan he levels up on a deep philosophical level, the approach of different cultures, religions and visions... Athelstan is literally a big change from his usual pagan world. He was in anchor in terms of intelligent thoughts, not just politics. I mean I'm African, and if in my village I had a foreigner coming up, I would be fascinated to know about a different world and had the foreigner left, I'd feel a bit lost too. So I get Ragnar excitement to see him again.

[Zalyn]

I think we also have to realize that one of the reasons Ragnar wants Athelstan back is because he is an incredibly valuable military asset. He is the key that helped Ragnar unlock the West. He taught him their language and customs, how their governments and military work and the most valuable places to raid. This also applies to Ecbert because he now has someone who can do the same thing for him in regards to the Northmen.

While I believe that Ragnar has developed an intense friendship with Athelstan, there are also very practical reasons he is so invested in getting him back.

I agree that there is great strategic value to the knowledge Athelstan has.  But strategic value isn't mutually exclusive to curiosity; another Viking could easily just go with greater might to overpower and smash other countrie, but Ragnar wants to engage smartly.  He also is willing to participate in the customs of England to the extent that it gives him more opportunities to learn about them or to bide time for when they have an advantage.  The little things he does, like observing when the English bow and then copying them, indicate an appreciation for understanding others, even if it a means to conquest. 

Likewise, Ecbert wouldn't just dismiss another custom or outlook because it's done by Pagans; he actually is willing to consider whether another perspective is valuable or allows for better justice.  As someone who is cross-cultural, I really appreciate seeing leaders doing that, and I think it's reasonable to show in this historical context.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Zalyn

[PatsyandEddie]

Ragnar trying to convince Athelstan to come with them was quite intense and when he gripped him by the thigh, it showed a deep friendship to me. Most certainly Athelstan is a great asset to Ragnar's cause but I think there is an element of respect, affection and desire to learn from his friend that drives this relationship. It seems to be mutual. Ragnar knows it isn't popular with some of the other Vikings but he doesn't seem to care. 

[Zalyn]

I was assuming a platonic friendship, but Travis Fimmel just couldn't help adding a little more subtext this past episode.  He just clung to Athelstan's thigh a bit longer than needed.  It was quite amusing.

Edit: Also the mule walk with his arm around Athelstan - Fimmel communicates so much just in how he touches people.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Zalyn

[lawless]

yet he forced his wife Aslaug into sex before the precious three days were up after his return to rescue them from squalor

You know, given how careful the Show has been to avoid involving Ragnar in the rapes, or even in any sex beyond Aslaug and Lagertha, I thought it was really strange that Aslaug said that to Siggy.  I tend to think she is not an entirely reliable narrator about it, and/or her definition of "forced" is this respect is different than other people's.  I say this because 1) Aslaug also chirpily reports that her famous father killed a dragon, which, on account of dragons not being real, I don't think he actually did, and 2) because last we saw of them during this time period, though Ragnar was definitely making a strong pitch for having sexytimes, Aslaug looked like she was being persuaded.  (And who would blame her)  She said that weird thing to him about waiting three days (without any explanation) and Ragnar put his moves on her and she looked like she was into his ideas.  I hate to doubt someone reporting sexual assault and to feed that stereotype, but there's nothing else to suggest that Ragnar actually, truly forced her and Aslaug is a person who sees visions and has odd perspectives at times.  I wonder if Aslaug's definition of "forced" in that instance really meant "did not heed my weird, arbitrary psychic warning" and seduced me. 

Edited April 26, 2014 by lawless

[CommodusMad1]

You know, given how careful the Show has been to avoid involving Ragnar in the rapes, or even in any sex beyond Aslaug and Lagertha, I thought it was really strange that Aslaug said that to Siggy.  I tend to think she is not an entirely reliable narrator about it, and/or her definition of "forced" is this respect is different than other people's.  I say this because 1) Aslaug also chirpily reports that her famous father killed a dragon, which, on account of dragons not being real, I don't think he actually did, and 2) because last we saw of them during this time period, though Ragnar was definitely making a strong pitch for having sexytimes, Aslaug looked like she was being persuaded.  (And who would blame her)  She said that weird thing to him about waiting three days (without any explanation) and Ragnar put his moves on her and she looked like she was into his ideas.  I hate to doubt someone reporting sexual assault and to feed that stereotype, but there's nothing else to suggest that Ragnar actually, truly forced her and Aslaug is a person who sees visions and has odd perspectives at times.  I wonder if Aslaug's definition of "forced" in that instance really meant "did not heed my weird, arbitrary psychic warning" and seduced me. 

 

What I understood by "forced" is Aslaug meant that Ragnar would not listen and ignore her prophecy and sleep with her as per usual. When Ragnar came back from Wessex and started stroking her hair, she started talking about the 3 days no sex or something might happen, but Ragnar brushed it off saying "no more prophecy, I want feel the heat of it", it's like his thirst for sex was greater than any other reason so they had sex before those 3 days have passed. Aslaug then seemed to follow the prophecy. Either way, something would have happened, she just didn't know what specifically. Had she known that something would happen to the baby, she probably would have stopped it, knowing that Ragnar wants healthy children. She knew about Sigurd but the snake eye isn't a handicap per se.

 

I also have a problem with Aslaug selective visions. Like she can see about Sigurd but she can't see when Borg would attack them and try to harm her sons. And suddenly she cann see something happening if they have sex... I mean what??

[Lillybee]

TF is going to be a big part of the movie Warcraft. His talent is enough to make me want to see it.

[Captanne]

Ouf, if you're looking for TF's "talent" don't bother with the short-lived horrible Tarzan television show.  Ouch.  

 

I love Vikings and am delighted with him on this series.  For a while I kept mistaking him for Charlie Hunnam (sp?) on Sons of Anarchy -- whom I also like.

[Frido]

I keep hearing throughout the show people say Ragnar believes he is a descendant of Odin-- but what episode does RAGNAR actually say that. When in the show's history did this idea start?

[hammaboo]

I love Vikings and am delighted with him on this series.  For a while I kept mistaking him for Charlie Hunnam (sp?) on Sons of Anarchy -- whom I also like.

 

Yes, this so much.

[Advance35]

Ok I'm just catching up on Vikings but Wow,  this guy is good.  He is NOT a good person but I find him SO rootable for some reason and I think it's completely down to the way the actor plays him.   I think his driving force is ambition and he's had to break a lot of eggs to rise continuously higher BUT to me he does not come across like a villainous figure.   The writing and acting go hand and hand in that regard.

 

I love the relationship between Ragnar and Lagertha.   It's so under the radar but still very pivotal.   And now they are both two leaders with a tremendous amount of history.  I often find Lagertha is the more emotionally mature of the two and I think she keeps their history in mind whereas Ragnar is likely to get carried away and throw caution to the wind even if it does trample over their history but through it all I always feel like they care about each other.   It's unique and it works.

 

I'm interested in seeing how the dynamic between Ragnar and Borje continues as I think Ragnar is jealous of his own son.

 

And who can give consideration to the character of Ragnar without thinking about his relationship with Althelstan.   Ragnar was baptized because he wanted to make sure he would see Athelstan in the afterlife.  OMG WOW.  And I don't mean in Hoyay way, I just mean Althestan was probably the person he loved most in his whole life because that is a BIG thing in Ragnars world.   Sometimes I wonder if it came down to a choice between one of his kids or Athelstan which would Ragnar choose.   I think Athelstan would come out ahead if his life was balanced against Aslaug and MAYBE even Lagertha.   They might have been true platonic soulmates.  Very well written.

[LOA-maker]

Bad dad? how? I don't see it. A bad dad wouldn't have decided to keep his disabled son, an anomaly in that era. As for Bjorn, I think he accepted him leaving as a kid as "penance" for cheating on Lagertha. He knew Bjorn was angry with him for having sex with Aslaug and not honouring his mother.

 

Ragnar I like since he's a man of honour, and whilst raiding and killing will spare the innocent (like kids). And he has never screwed another Earl or King over, like Ecbert or Horik, or Kalf have done. The closest to deceiving another ruler is King Charles, when he wanted to become a Christian. We see now that he's an Odinist all the way, and not a Christian ever..lol.

I think at first he was using Athelstan, but overtime grew to love him since they imho were kindred spirits. Ragnar is an intelligent man, and sees himself in a way in Athelstan. Plus he was his confidant, and I guess as Earl and now King he needs somebody like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LOA-maker]

his raids cause suffering, but then i'd say he is.

 

he raids for a good purpose, to get more wealth. Ok these have bad effects, but then if people are desperate, they will act. it's human nature.

 

he loves his kids, and never betrays them, like Ecbert does. Ragnar would never sleep with Bjorn's wife, or Ubba, Sigurd, Ivar or Hvitserk's wives in the future. And he doesn't betray other leaders he has alliances with, like Jarl Borg, King Horik, and King Ecbert did to him. 

 

He doesn't rape women on raids, and hides kids and the innocent from danger. he only kills other soldiers. 

 

He is a cheater, but then he accepts responsibility for this by losing Bjorn, and never got mad at Bjorn for leaving him since he knew it was his punishment for banging Aslaug at the pilgrimage.

 

He is kind to his friends and family, and his subjects, and only punishes those who do wrong, liek Rollo with Jarl Borg, and Floki with Athelstan. He took the old man on the raid to Northumbria, when again he didn't have to, just so he could die and go to his friends in Valhalla.

 

And regarding Athelstan, he didnt' have to befriend him, and initially was using him for intel/info on England, but then he realised both he and Athelstan were similar as intelligent men. He could have kept Athelstan a perpetual slave just for info, and didn't have to free him or treat him well.

Edited April 3, 2016 by LOA-maker

[PatsyandEddie]

I can only say that it's hard to judge because we can only view him by the standards of present times. The Northmen weren't just raiders, they were also traders and farmers. They made contributions to society in many ways through language and culture.

You do raise a lot of good points LOA-maker! Of course Ragnar has much that is negative about him but *I* attribute that to the age he lives in.

[Harald Hardrada]

It's not easy to be a father and a king of Denmark at the same time.