Affairs and More Affairs: The Series As a Whole & Speculation for the End

[grommit2]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:46 PM, Razzberry said:

An earthquake  dislodges Helen's house from the precipice and they all go screamin' into the canyon?

There it is!  THE best comment in the entire series. 
Major kudos to Razzberry.
Probably get an Emmy. 

[Otherkate]

19 minutes ago, grommit2 said:

Wait.  This is not good.
The cops will catch her.  The trial will use Ben's fudged notes to convict her and sentence her to life in the looney bin.  Not a good ending. 
But it sure does fit with the show's overall premise...which is...umm...wait...not sure what. 

Although, she's so miserable anyway, what does it matter? I don't think she can enjoy life any less than she already does.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, grommit2 said:

The cops will catch her. 

If the cops are anything like the ones Joanie summoned to Ben's place or the ones who investigated Alison's death, then Joanie has no worries.

[LoveLeigh]

The series might end in 2020 with Noah and Helen getting back together but maybe when Joanie visits 30 years later she finds out their reconciliation lasted only a short time. 

I think Joanie will bump into Trevor and his husband and it will be Trevor who brings her up to date on the Solloways. 

As for Joanie, I think her story will end with a cliffhanger. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[grommit2]

Oh boy...major pondering:
1) Did Helen and Noah come close to some kind of reconciliation in episode 10?  Understanding?  Or did Helen verbally clobber that cheatin', self-centered, egotistical Noah.  (Hmm...was that a bit too harsh?)
2) Are the California fires being used as a metaphor for the Solloway family?  Everything burning out of control.  Or is that too 9th grade English?
3) Recent episodes have put Whitney front and center.  Are the writers giving us just a little bit of relief from all the self-centered craziness?  Or is this just another setup, which ends with severe disappointment?
4) Will Furkat (major kudos to the writer who came up with that name) and Sasha Mann collaborate on a mixed media project?  Seems like a compelling collaboration, eh?
5) I still want to know what happened to the coke business that used to operate out of the Montauk taxi operation.  And the coke stash that was buried somewhere on the Lockhart ranch in season one.  Ooh ooh...I've got it...Noah and Helen have financial issues...the coke will be dug up, sold, and they will get the Lockhart ranch AND Lobster Roll back up and running. 
HA...I should be a writer...
6) And and...that college, "Livingston"...we know this is not the Livingston Campus associated with Rutgers.  But the police were supposed to be from Livingston, a town in New Jersey.  So, where exactly did they film this faux college?  IMDB does not list it.  Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited October 28, 2019 by grommit2
Forgot one.

[LibertarianSlut]

Has the theory been floated yet that Noah will avenge Alison's death by killing Ben himself?

[Diane12251]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:54 AM, Stad15 said:

Based on the promo pic for Episode 11, looks like it's a good possibility.  She could be holding Cole's old shotgun from Season 4.

Where did you get this pic?  I haven't seen anything online about this.

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, Diane12251 said:

Where did you get this pic?  I haven't seen anything online about this.

If you go to Anna Pacquin's IMBD  and click on episode 11 under The Affair it gives the synopsis of the ep and underneath there are 5 photos. If you click see all  photos it expands to 8,  of which this is one.

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Has the theory been floated yet that Noah will avenge Alison's death by killing Ben himself?

There's a lot to that idea. Just as season 1 ended with Noah's arrest for a murder he didn't commit, the series ends with his arrest for one he did. Both times, to save a mother he loved: penance for what he can't help feeling was his original sin, wih his own mother.

I could see his being all right with that, for his last chapter. (And Helen frustrated yet loudly, loyally resigned. Not ever able to put the book down. Not wanting to.)

[T Summer]

[Stad15]

15 hours ago, Pallas said:

There's a lot to that idea. Just as season 1 ended with Noah's arrest for a murder he didn't commit, the series ends with his arrest for one he did. Both times, to save a mother he loved: penance for what he can't help feeling was his original sin, wih his own mother.

I could see his being all right with that, for his last chapter. (And Helen frustrated yet loudly, loyally resigned. Not ever able to put the book down. Not wanting to.)

That's definitely a theory, but I have a hard time seeing a 90 year old limping Noah being arrested.  If anyone needed to kill Ben, it should have been Cole.

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, Stad15 said:

That's definitely a theory, but I have a hard time seeing a 90 year old limping Noah being arrested.  If anyone needed to kill Ben, it should have been Cole.

Well...the show isn't based in logic and factual timetables as much as it is in delivering a story.  Seeing as how Cole is dead, he is an unlikely candidate, and a 90 year old can kill someone (and if they couldn't, the show would just make Noah 70; they don't care).  For the record, I don't know whether Noah would be arrested.  There are so many more interesting ways to take him out than by police escort.

[Otherkate]

10 hours ago, T Summer said:

Whoo boy, please lord don't let my daughters end up anything like this horrible girl. 

Any GOT fans in here? I think we finally found Joffrey's perfect match. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Otherkate

[nara]

Why oh why did I start my diet/alcohol moratorium before Whitney’s wedding episode? How will I survive?

[JenE4]

Whelp, Helen definitely told us exactly how the finale will end for her and Noah when she said she always dreamed about them dancing together at Whitney’s wedding celebrating after all the hard times they’ve been through as a family. 

[T Summer]

😯

[Stad15]

22 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Well...the show isn't based in logic and factual timetables as much as it is in delivering a story.  Seeing as how Cole is dead, he is an unlikely candidate, and a 90 year old can kill someone (and if they couldn't, the show would just make Noah 70; they don't care).  For the record, I don't know whether Noah would be arrested.  There are so many more interesting ways to take him out than by police escort.

Logic or not....Noah isn't killing anyone or getting put away.  Sarah Treem would never allow that to happen to her favorite character.

5 hours ago, T Summer said:

😯

I guess Bruce's alzheimers has gotten worse.

[AngelaHunter]

So the only reason Whiney is allowing her mother to attend the wedding is so her friends won't think it's creepy that neither of her parents are there?

On another note, Maura Tierney has great arms for her age.

On 10/29/2019 at 10:02 AM, Stad15 said:

but I have a hard time seeing a 90 year old limping Noah being arrested. 

Wouldn't 30 years in the future make him 75?

[Stad15]

38 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

So the only reason Whiney is allowing her mother to attend the wedding is so her friends won't think it's creepy that neither of her parents are there?

On another note, Maura Tierney has great arms for her age.

Wouldn't 30 years in the future make him 75?

No.  Noah was older than Cole.  Cole died at 73-74 so Noah is in his 80's or 90's.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Stad15 said:

Cole died at 73-74 so Noah is in his 80's or 90's.

Oh, okay. I don't know what age he's supposed to be in the show, and the timeline often confuses me. So if he's 50 now - same age as the actor - he'd be 80 by then.

[T Summer]

IMBD's info isn't always 100% accurate but this photo was in with the other 7 where that one of Joanie with the gun can be found. Above the photo it reads s5 ep11.

Do you think E.J. will appear in the finale?

This looks like a scene from s5 ep6 at Cole's house. Same clothes and all, except I just looked at that ep and E.J. appeared to be wearing  dark blue jeans  where his pants in this photo appear gray.

[Razzberry]

3 hours ago, T Summer said:

Do you think E.J. will appear in the finale?

We can only hope 😉

Sasha Mann, hearing nothing from Helen, sees the smoldering husk of his Tesla on the news. Its famous gullwing doors an epic fail when it's learned the missing roof was a desperate attempt by Jaws-of-Life equipment to free the occupants. 

Lawsuits abound, enough to keep 20 attorneys busy for years to come.  The pregnant couple's family sues Helen for abandoning them in a death trap, Helen sues Sasha who sues Tesla who sues all of them for not reading the instruction manual.

[JenE4]

17 hours ago, T Summer said:

😯

“Weekend at Bernie’s”-type situation?

[grommit2]

15 hours ago, Razzberry said:

We can only hope 😉

Sasha Mann, hearing nothing from Helen, sees the smoldering husk of his Tesla on the news. Its famous gullwing doors an epic fail when it's learned the missing roof was a desperate attempt by Jaws-of-Life equipment to free the occupants. 

Lawsuits abound, enough to keep 20 attorneys busy for years to come.  The pregnant couple's family sues Helen for abandoning them in a death trap, Helen sues Sasha who sues Tesla who sues all of them for not reading the instruction manual.

Whoa!  Fantastic story line...IF it is true.
And if it is NOT...still a fantastic story line.
 

[Stad15]

21 hours ago, T Summer said:

Do you think E.J. will appear in the finale?

Yes, he will be in the finale.  I think he will tell Joanie where old Noah lives, as I predict Noah and Helen will raise Eddie in Montauk.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

1 hour ago, Stad15 said:

Yes, he will be in the finale.  I think he will tell Joanie where old Noah lives, as I predict Noah and Helen will raise Eddie in Montauk.

That would explain why he is weirdly inappropriate in his interactions.  Noah and Helen have such a great track record when it comes to child rearing. 

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, Stad15 said:

Yes, he will be in the finale.  I think he will tell Joanie where old Noah lives, as I predict Noah and Helen will raise Eddie in Montauk.

How well would Joanie remember Noah? Would she be looking for him?

As usual there is something messed up with the show's timeline🙄

When Alison told Noah he might not be Joanie's  father at Cole and Luisa's wedding, how old was she... pretty little right? Noah came from their NYC apartment to the wedding. Not long before that Noah was complaining about washing so many dishes and changing so many diapers in the therapy session with Marilyn and to his agent who wanted him  to pump out a quick sequel to Desent. So Joanie would've been  under 2 then, no? Then there was Scotty's remark about Joanie that Oscar overheard at  the wedding "that's our baby". He'd been in NYC and seen Alison with Joanie, a  baby in a stroller shortly before Alison and Cole bought the Lobster Roll and just before Cole and Luisa's wedding. Plus at the wedding  Margaret asked Noah to see  his baby pictures. He showed Alison a video where Joanie was barely trying to walk, still wobbly.

When Alison came out of Woodlawn after no one knew where she'd been for six months how old was Joanie  supposed to be then?   Cole and Luisa had been caring for  her and  dealt with her crying for Alison, and they were left to run  the Lobster Roll. No mention of Noah comforting Joanie  during that time. When all that Cole + Luisa / Alison visitation talk went on, we heard no mention of Noah ever visiting  with Joanie. She appeared around 5  or 6 years old at the birthday party where she rode the pony. That came up pretty soon after Alison surfaced and begged to see Joanie.

I'm not sure if I even remember Noah saying hello to Joanie over the computer one time? Maybe once.

We heard Noah say  to  Alison  I'd hoped you'd bring Joanie with you when she showed up in California. That as supposed to be shortly before Alison's death, right? Joanie was 7 when Alison died.

Did Joanie do all the aging Stacy never did?

[Stad15]

Joanie - "Bye Noah, see you latoh!"

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, Stad15 said:

Joanie - "Bye Noah, see you latoh!"

Yes, that's what I thought I remembered, one convo shown over the computer.

However Noah didn't seem to factor in when Cole + Luisa were working out how to re-establish visitation with Alison. They showed no time together and only this one convo that I can recall. Was he already in Ca.?

I put Joanie at 5 or 6 there, what do  you think?

How did she go from a baby under 2 at the time of Cole and Luisa's wedding to 5 or 6  when Alison (missing 6 mos) came out of Woodlawn? She already looked 5 or 6 at the B'day party and  that was soon after.

Alison  decided she wanted to do counseling instead of devoting her time to the Lobster Roll just after she came out, something that frustrated Cole.  Then she met Ben at a seminar and started seeing him.   So it seems like they aged Joanie 3-4 years in that 6 mos Alison was in-patient. IDK?

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, T Summer said:

How did she go from a baby under 2 at the time of Cole and Luisa's wedding to 5 or 6  when Alison (missing 6 mos) came out of Woodlawn?

The story jumped three years between seasons 2 and 3, to account for Noah's three years in jail. That's why Alison died in October 2021 (as seen this year), rather than 2018. 

[T Summer]

21 hours ago, Pallas said:

The story jumped three years between seasons 2 and 3, to account for Noah's three years in jail. That's why Alison died in October 2021 (as seen this year), rather than 2018. 

thank you Pallas

I think I so cannot deal with s3 that I continually block it!

We were discussing what E.J. might be doing in the finale, and  then of course there's that photo of Joanie holding  the gun...

Someone suggested older Noah and 38 year old Joanie might have a talk where she learns a lot about the circumstances that surrounded her mother's death. So I was trying to figure out who Noah  is/was to Joanie  and when she would have last seen him with any regularity. If she were 2 when he went to prison and 5 when he came out and Noah spent time in Paris, then on a book tour and then moved to Ca., did he have visits with her between ages 5 and 7?  They never showed that or discussions of such, IIRC.

With Joanie having to deal with calling Cole daddy, staying with Cole and Luisa, not seeing her mother for 6 mos and then her popping back up and dealing with split visitation... I could see dealing with Noah seeing her not being a priority, especially if he was traveling a lot. When Noah came to see Alison at the apartment she was fixing up for a visit w/ Joanie and she wanted him to sign divorce papers absolutely no mention was made of Noah seeing Joanie.

If he didn't stay in her life and see her with regularity, I cannot see adult Joanie looking him up.

Was he   only known to Joanie  as a friend of her mother's they said hello to over  facetime occaisionlly?

Edited November 2, 2019 by T Summer
typos

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, T Summer said:

Was he only known to Joanie  as a friend of her mother's they said hello to over  facetime occaisionlly?

That's never been spelled out. Joanie hadn't turned two when Noah was imprisoned. Sometime after that, while still living in Manhattan, Alison told Cole that Joanie was Cole's daughter, and the exes shared custody while also working together on the Lobster Roll.

Six months before season 3 begins, Alison had her breakdown: Joanie had just turned four -- the same age as Gabriel when he died -- then became ill and didn't seem able to get well. Spiraling, terrified of her incapacity as a mother, Alison left Joanie with Cole and Luisa on yet another stormy night in Montauk, and disappeared (to seek in-patient care for her PTSD, anxiety and depression). 

At the beginning of season 3, a recovering Alison leaves the facility and NYC: she moves to Montauk, taking an apartment there and furnishing Joanie's room with Gabriel's toychest and a dollhouse that Alison builds for her. Cole and Luisa aren't having it, at first, but though they sue for sole custody, Luisa eventually relents and even helps Alison regain physical custody. Luisa is guided in part by how much Joanie not only adores Alison, but trusts her. 

Noah comes to see Alison in Montauk mid-season (after attacking himself in his kitchen, the night he argued with his student Audrey about Descent and his/his avatar's treatment of Alison/her avatar). He negotiates another day with her on Block Island, in exchange for signing the divorce papers she's sent him. They end up missing the last ferry and spend the night speaking of their childhoods. How Alison's greatest fear is to emotionally and physically abandon Joanie as her mother did her. How Noah's worst impulse is to flee women he loves, to cut himself free of their pain, as he did with his mother. When they return to Montauk, he signs the papers, leaves with good grace, then hallucinates being driven off the road by the guard. 

What did Alison tell Joanie?  Something like, "Your father and I weren't together when I was pregnant with you, and that's when I married Noah. He helped me take care of you when you were a baby. But he had to go away, and I wanted you and your father to have each other. So your father and Luisa and I figured it out. And Noah moved to California to be near his own kids, so here we are..." With questions answered only if asked : "He went to jail for something he didn't do" and "I don't know; but when people are unhappy, sometimes that's why they do things. To really feel it."

[AngelaHunter]

I kind of like this article that talks not only about Noah's (non)relationship with Joanie, but about Joanie's visit to Ben:

https://tv.avclub.com/familiar-faces-don-t-bring-any-solace-on-the-affair-1838832451

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

I kind of like this article that talks not only about Noah's (non)relationship with Joanie, but about Joanie's visit to Ben:

https://tv.avclub.com/familiar-faces-don-t-bring-any-solace-on-the-affair-1838832451

Thank you Pallas,

Seems I'm / we're not the only ones with some issues with the writing  and time line issues.

I recalled all that above about Noah extorting Alison to spend one more day with him b4 signing and all that...

... but I had forgotten it was Joanie turning 4 that set Alison off and ultimately landed her in-patient at Woodlawn. I guess she turned 5 at the pony ride  nut allergy cake b'day party?  eh, as long as they're not taking her from barely 2 to 7 in a year or two I guess I'll reluctantly deal and follow along where they're going until the end, but it's still some mad sloppy writing.(IMO) ...and it will really be extra maddening if they now try and create some super close relationship between  Noah  and Joanie out of:

see ya later Noah

I'd hoped you'd bring Joanie with you

I'm going to see if I can say goodbye to Joanie

When Cole and Luisa ranted (justifiably) about how hard it was to sooth Joanie's terrors over Alison having just disappeared one day, they made no mention of Noah seemingly dropping out of her life too. Nor did they show Joanie asking where her 1st daddy went.

I guess we now know why adult Joanie is a little...off.

Edited November 1, 2019 by T Summer
typo

[Stad15]

Well then...

[LibertarianSlut]

^^^

That's pretty fun that Treem didn't address the substance of what was Tweeted to her...why not?

The Gabrielle/Joanie signature issue is not an issue for me.  Part of my job is to check documents for signatures, and part of my job is to sign documents, and very many signatures, including mine, are illegible.  I've always assumed Joanie just scribbled an illegible signature on the documents and it was the one area I didn't need to suspend disbelief.  It is puzzling to me that so many view this a smoking gun.

The larger question still stands for Treem to answer though:  why is the writing/storytelling so awful?

[T Summer]

23 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

^^^

That's pretty fun that Treem didn't address the substance of what was Tweeted to her...why not?

The Gabrielle/Joanie signature issue is not an issue for me.  Part of my job is to check documents for signatures, and part of my job is to sign documents, and very many signatures, including mine, are illegible.  I've always assumed Joanie just scribbled an illegible signature on the documents and it was the one area I didn't need to suspend disbelief.  It is puzzling to me that so many view this a smoking gun.

The larger question still stands for Treem to answer though:  why is the writing/storytelling so awful?

Yes! THIS^

Which s5 development was most egregious to you?

For me besides  Helen + Noah almost certainly reuniting after she wishes dying of cancer and perishing in a house fire on him...

and characters like Colin changing completely from one week to another...

The WORST had to be E.J. the answer man just happening to be loitering by Joanie's father's grave site,  her trying to escape this weirdo stranger the way she came in (on her bicycle), then  her tires go flat necessitating taking a ride from said weird stranger. AND  their time spent together resulting in E.J. rapid fire blurting out the answers to mysteries that have swirled around  in Joanie's mind  for the past 3 decades in between movie references and complimenting her "resilience". 🙄

[LibertarianSlut]

Hmm, I agree the EJ storyline was the most unrealistic--especially, as you've said in the past, beginning with EJ being a the cemetery to begin with.  But at least EJ seems clean.

The S5 development that was most egregious to me is Colin.  The whole segment from Whitney's perspective in the Colin episode was done really well as far as making Whitney's life seem awful.  After that episode aired, I posted that i thought the better option for Whitney would be to sleep her way up and ditch Colin.  I always knew they lived together in LA, and there was something so oppressive about the heat and the cramped, disgusting apartment and Colin being utterly worthless.  I think the one moment that cemented it for me was seeing Whitney working so hard and Colin was reading a book that he characterized as "an investment."  

Yes, it was all from Whitney's perspective, but we never saw Colin's perspective, so I believe it happened more or less that way.  Then, two episodes ago, when I am still vomiting in my mouth about Colin, he is suddenly here for pure altruistic reasons and he's sorry he's a slow painter, but he painted a picture of Whitney that he keeps in a closet, and he hates America (which he never bothered to mention), but he's trying to get the green card so he can be with Whitney!!!  That's not how this show ever worked--that a character changes his beliefs, his thoughts, his habits and bacially does a 180 in that same character's POV.  Even if Colin was forcing Whitney to learn all about him so that he can stay in the country, he still could have gotten a goddamn job, you know, one that earns money to pay for his book "investments," instead of slowing painting all day.  In addition, we are supposed to believe that Colin made no bones about hating America, the place he is setting up to live the rest of his life, only he never mentioned it to Whitney, who, if she'd known Colin hates America, could have made arrangements to live somewhere else, like, I dunno, maybe Canada?  Brazil?  Costa Rica?  Ireland? We were either led to believe that Colin had constantly told Whitney he hated America, and she just fluffed him off, as if he was telling her he changed the way he folds his shirts, or he was just keeping it a secret, both scenarios posing significant problems.  

I don't know if I would let Noah teach at my school, Scotty Lockheart was a bad guy, Vik started off as kind of a dick, Oscar was a troublemaker, Furkat treats women like objects, etc., and I still haven't seen a male character who turned me off as much as Colin.  It wasn't that he was poor--remember Helen claimed she had to work at 'a bagel factory' when she first married Noah--but it was the idea that he was willing to lay around in poverty, slowly painting and investing in books, while his fiancé was off working herself ragged, and then, not only did he not contribute, he nagged and bothered Whitney the second she walked in the door, and then he wanted to spoon her at night, like he was a real man!  

Like I said, I'm torn on this one, because the showrunners did such a good job of evoking disgust in me over Colin the first time Whitney had a POV, so much so that I felt like insects were crawling on me, but when they pulled the old switcher-oo to, 'Oh, shit, y'all, Colin and Whitney need to get married, so we need to retcon his character, but our writing is so bad that he is still a sneaky, withholding, dishonest piece of trash, except we don't realize it, because our own moral compasses are so screwed up that we don't see what's wrong about a man pressuring his fiancé to the ends of the earth to marry him so that he can get a green card, except, he actually hates American and only wants to be with her, but doesn't respect her enough to confide in her about a huge component of their living situation" I couldn't see anything else being the most egregious.  

I would venture to say Colin is potentially the most egregious thing that happened to the show, and I saw season three!

[LoveLeigh]

I think the series will end with cliffhangers and many plots unresolved and left hanging. It will leave us wanting more episodes but it will be OVER. 

[T Summer]

On 11/2/2019 at 7:25 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Hmm, I agree the EJ storyline was the most unrealistic--especially, as you've said in the past, beginning with EJ being a the cemetery to begin with.  But at least EJ seems clean.

The S5 development that was most egregious to me is Colin.  The whole segment from Whitney's perspective in the Colin episode was done really well as far as making Whitney's life seem awful.  After that episode aired, I posted that i thought the better option for Whitney would be to sleep her way up and ditch Colin.  I always knew they lived together in LA, and there was something so oppressive about the heat and the cramped, disgusting apartment and Colin being utterly worthless.  I think the one moment that cemented it for me was seeing Whitney working so hard and Colin was reading a book that he characterized as "an investment."  

Yes, it was all from Whitney's perspective, but we never saw Colin's perspective, so I believe it happened more or less that way.  Then, two episodes ago, when I am still vomiting in my mouth about Colin, he is suddenly here for pure altruistic reasons and he's sorry he's a slow painter, but he painted a picture of Whitney that he keeps in a closet, and he hates America (which he never bothered to mention), but he's trying to get the green card so he can be with Whitney!!!  That's not how this show ever worked--that a character changes his beliefs, his thoughts, his habits and bacially does a 180 in that same character's POV.  Even if Colin was forcing Whitney to learn all about him so that he can stay in the country, he still could have gotten a goddamn job, you know, one that earns money to pay for his book "investments," instead of slowing painting all day.  In addition, we are supposed to believe that Colin made no bones about hating America, the place he is setting up to live the rest of his life, only he never mentioned it to Whitney, who, if she'd known Colin hates America, could have made arrangements to live somewhere else, like, I dunno, maybe Canada?  Brazil?  Costa Rica?  Ireland? We were either led to believe that Colin had constantly told Whitney he hated America, and she just fluffed him off, as if he was telling her he changed the way he folds his shirts, or he was just keeping it a secret, both scenarios posing significant problems.  

I don't know if I would let Noah teach at my school, Scotty Lockheart was a bad guy, Vik started off as kind of a dick, Oscar was a troublemaker, Furkat treats women like objects, etc., and I still haven't seen a male character who turned me off as much as Colin.  It wasn't that he was poor--remember Helen claimed she had to work at 'a bagel factory' when she first married Noah--but it was the idea that he was willing to lay around in poverty, slowly painting and investing in books, while his fiancé was off working herself ragged, and then, not only did he not contribute, he nagged and bothered Whitney the second she walked in the door, and then he wanted to spoon her at night, like he was a real man!  

Like I said, I'm torn on this one, because the showrunners did such a good job of evoking disgust in me over Colin the first time Whitney had a POV, so much so that I felt like insects were crawling on me, but when they pulled the old switcher-oo to, 'Oh, shit, y'all, Colin and Whitney need to get married, so we need to retcon his character, but our writing is so bad that he is still a sneaky, withholding, dishonest piece of trash, except we don't realize it, because our own moral compasses are so screwed up that we don't see what's wrong about a man pressuring his fiancé to the ends of the earth to marry him so that he can get a green card, except, he actually hates American and only wants to be with her, but doesn't respect her enough to confide in her about a huge component of their living situation" I couldn't see anything else being the most egregious.  

I would venture to say Colin is potentially the most egregious thing that happened to the show, and I saw season three!

uh... season 3 that  was grim. Plus apparently I'm not the only one who still doesn't completely understand what happened and what didn't.

When I rewatch I'm going to take note of   Colin's book as an investment line. I don't remember that. In my defense I did fall asleep a few times this season. Do you remember our first look at Colin in Helen's kitchen s4? He seemed sweet and good natured.

How funny was it when Colin was practically in tears apologizing to Whitney for being such a slow painter and lamenting he couldn't turn out work like Furcat... a photoghrapher!

Edited November 6, 2019 by T Summer
typo

[T Summer]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think the series will end with cliffhangers and many plots unresolved and left hanging. It will leave us wanting more episodes but it will be OVER. 

how many can you count?

1 Did Noah ever see Joanie again after moving to Ca when she was 6 or 7?

2 Did Noah lose his teaching job?

3  If Noah doesn't get screenwriting credit for the movie made from Desent, does he stay broke?

4 Did any of the 6 women bring  civil suits against  Noah?

5 Did  Helen sue when she lost the job with the design firm run by the crazy millenials?

6 Will we find out for sure who E.J. is?

7  Who will raise baby Eddie James?

8  Did Sierra escape her domineering mother?

    8 a Did Sierra kill the role of Madame Bovary and become a star in her own right?

9 Did Janelle win the Board of Education office she ran for?

  9 a Did Carl and Janelle get back together?

10 Did Sasha Man's step daughter ever get...   nevermind.  no one  cares

  where has Martin been?

[T Summer]

I started reading the ep 11 thread and realized I forgot to watch at midnight!

[Stad15]

7 hours ago, T Summer said:

4 Did any of the 6 women bring  civil suits against  Noah?

Yeah, looks like they just dropped that storyline.  I guess that storyline (and the LA wildfire) was just used to bring Noah and Helen back together.

[Razzberry]

EJ, the Answer Man - main duties to promote pet theories,  tie up loose ends, and provide Joanie a whipping boy with transportation.

I can't think of a better reason, Joanie.   But then EJ isn't the brightest scientist. 

[Razzberry]

I don't know where else to put this, but something always seemed off about Alison's alleged R.N. license.  I can't think of a less suitable career for someone who freezes up and almost breaks into tears at seeing a young cancer patient getting sick.  But this re-entry job interview was Alison's POV, so who knows.  

I began to suspect she was lying about being a nurse when hearing the circumstances of Gabriel's death and her failure to act appropriately.  Munchhausen-by-proxy crossed my mind when Joanie came down with a mysterious "flu" that never got better, and once again she avoids taking her child to the hospital.   Typhoid Mary would make a better nurse.  Seems I wasn't alone in my skepticism.

[Stad15]

I'm sure Alison was a decent nurse before the Gabriel tragedy.

[grommit2]

23 hours ago, Stad15 said:

I'm sure Alison was a decent nurse before the Gabriel tragedy.

Yes, Alison deeply regrets not having recognized that Gabriel was in trouble.  Regrets that she did not take him to the hospital.  The writers tapped into a powerful, powerful emotion.

Regret.  There may be no emotion more powerful than regret. 
Regret for something you did and realize that, maybe, you should never have done that.
Regret for something you did NOT do, and realize, umm...you should have done it.

Regret eats your soul.  Eats your being.  Gets into your head and never leaves.
Sometimes you can put it aside.  But then it comes back.  With a vengeance. 
That is what happened to Alison.

[Razzberry]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:24 AM, Stad15 said:

I'm sure Alison was a decent nurse before the Gabriel tragedy.

I think her incompetence as a nurse was directly responsible for his death.  This is another reason why I don't understand the choice of medical professional for her background.  For most people her (non) actions would seem reasonable, but an R.N. would know to take him to hospital or at least watch him carefully for the next few hours and not put him to sleep.  If Alison had been strictly a waitress or drug mule she'd have been far more sympathetic to me.

Long Island breathes a sigh of relief.

[nara]

3 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I think her incompetence as a nurse was directly responsible for his death.  This is another reason why I don't understand the choice of medical professional for her background.  For most people her (non) actions would seem reasonable, but an R.N. would know to take him to hospital or at least watch him carefully for the next few hours and not put him to sleep.  If Alison had been strictly a waitress or drug mule she'd have been far more sympathetic to me.

Long Island breathes a sigh of relief.

I think that’s the point. She should have known better but she still missed the signs. That’s why she feels so guilty for the rest of her life.

[SunnyBeBe]

I’ve just started in this series. I actually watched season 1, episode 1 and 2 years ago and thought it looked interesting.  Now, that I’m Season 4, I’m trying to figure out if this is for real. It has some of the most revolting characters I’ve ever seen. I’m not sure why I’m still watching. It’s pretty frustrating.