Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[statsgirl]

Has EBR announced any new projects after the play? It ends at the end of this week I think and they're only on shooting 8.02 right now.  Even if she missed 8.03, there are still 7 episodes to go.

[KenyaJ]

Sounds like BS, since Stephen has said it was S6 when her told TPTB that S7 should be the last.

In other MG news, this is relevant to all the speculation last week about which characters might be working together in S8.

[Trisha]

47 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Has EBR announced any new projects after the play? It ends at the end of this week I think and they're only on shooting 8.02 right now.  Even if she missed 8.03, there are still 7 episodes to go.

There's nothing listed on her IMDB page except that "We Need To Talk" movie that seems to already be in post-production. She does a lot of really indie stuff that might not make it on her page right away (and who knows if her play's run will be extended), but as of now it doesn't *seem* like there'll be scheduling conflicts. I doubt she'd come back for more than one or two episodes (ideally the last two) but the fact that MG mentioned repeatedly that they're going to reach out to her, and that Greg Berlanti was hanging out with her and the jar crew this weekend makes me think there's no bad blood between her and the show/studio.

24 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

In other MG news, this is relevant to all the speculation last week about which characters might be working together in S8.

More evidence that Diggle will join Oliver on his Monitor mission. I wonder if DR and SA will even share any scenes with RG and JH, since they seem to be stuck in Star City? If not, I can't imagine they'll get much screentime (fingers crossed!).

[Featherhat]

I'd actually really love to know the timing for a lot of things. 

There's nothing yet announced that would mean EBR couldn't come back for at least a few scenes, but  it certainly doesn't seem certain by any stretch of the imagination and if the 7x22 scenes were the end of Felicity hopefully it holds up as a great, meaningful exit. Not as an Edie Thawne exit.

Re: JH, I assume there must quite a bit of Dinah and Rene be to link SC2020 to 2040 but that is the least interesting part of the last ten episodes.

[tv echo]

FYI:

-- On how the show dynamic will be now that Original Team Arrow has been broken apart, MG: "Good question... We're trying something a little new this year.  Um, I don't want to spoil exactly what the new Team Arrow is going to look like, but it will feel, I think, both familiar and new. Um, the familiar part will be - certainly the Oliver-Diggle relationship will go on in the way that you're used to. And then everyone else who is still working, you now, to save Star City, um, you know, that's a separate - that's a separate conversation. It's a separate thing." (SDCC, Jul. 20, 2019: Jul. 21, 2019 Whedonopolis Videos video of MG interview, page 2 of Spoilers thread and page 6 of Spoiler Discussion Final thread)

-- On whether she would consider going back to TV and signing on for another potentially long-running series, or whether that is something that she thinks she'll take a break from for awhile, EBR: "I think I’m going to take a break for awhile, and do a little bit of theater, coming up in New York [Reborning at the SoHo Playhouse from July 5th through August 3rd]. And then, after that, I’m hoping to continue doing theater for a little bit longer. My friends are a bunch of creative geniuses, so no matter what, that’s the way I’m going right now. I’ll never say no to doing TV again. For now, life has changed dramatically, already." (May 24, 2019 Collider article, page 136 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

Edited July 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

BB Exclusive: Rick Gonzalez Talks the Final Season of Arrow at SDCC
Published on Jul 29, 2019, by Beautiful Ballad

-- On Rene's story this season, RG: "I'm excited about it, I'm excited. I would've liked for Rene to fall in love, just to see that side of him. But I do like the idea of Rene, uh - I love the storyline of him being the mayor last season and kinda him losing his way. But his heart was in the right place. He thought he was doing the right thing. You know, instead of being a vigilante, going into politics where he could do more right. Uh, and so, his heart is still there, just - he lost his way. So, it'll be kinda interesting to see how he loses his way. You know? That's an interesting place."

-- On Rene's dynamic with the team this year, RG: "You know, last season, we kinda said goodbye to kinda like what was normal for us as a team and, you know, things have changed. Um, but there are people out there that are still trying to take down Star City, the Glades. So that work isn't over, so how do we come together? So that dynamic - the dynamic for them will still be there, in terms of getting along and at the same time, like, with Oliver like now on his own course. Uh, it's going to be interesting. We'll see."

-- On Rene's relationship with Dinah this season, RG: "I think they'll be okay. I think Dinah and Rene have been like sis - brother and sister, you know? They've always kind of like connected on that level, you know, protecting each other, cared about each other. So, yeah, I think that - that - that part will be fine. They'll still be totally connected."

-- On whether Wild Dog will be let off his leash for Crisis, RG: "I hope so. That's what I've been wanting since Season 5. Like, let that boy loose. Let him do what he do."

Edited July 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Given SA and CD's recent comments that fans are going to see the Tommy that they've always wanted to see in 801, I went back and looked at some May 2013 interviews that were given by MG and CD after Tommy was killed off in S1...

Arrow Postmortem: Is Oliver Done Being the Vigilante in Season 2?
By Natalie Abrams | May 16, 2013 
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season2-spoilers-guggenheim-1065736/

Quote

Everyone assumed that you would have Tommy eventually become the Dark Archer. Why did you decide to kill him off instead?
Marc Guggenheim: It really had nothing to do with his trajectory as the Dark Archer. It really had to do with the fact that we wanted Oliver to suffer a loss at the end of the season. When we thought about the characters that he could lose who would have the biggest impact not just on Oliver, but on the show, Tommy was the name that rose to the top very quickly. Tommy's death impacts pretty much every member of our cast. Obviously his death impacts Oliver and Laurel (Katie Cassidy), but there's a closeness between Thea (Willa Holland) and Tommy that we've established on the show, Lance, obviously because of the connection that Laurel has with Tommy and Moira (Susanna Thompson) because of her responsibility with Tommy. He's the one character whose death would have the biggest impact.

'Arrow' Season 1 finale: Colin Donnell speaks out on Tommy's terrible fate and what's next
CARINA MACKENZIE   MAY 15, 2013
http://screenertv.com/news-features/arrow-season-1-finale-colin-donnell-speaks-out-on-tommys-terrible-fate-and-whats-next/

Quote

“I found out toward the end of February,” Donnell tells us. “[Executive producers] Marc Guggenheim and Andrew Kreisberg came up. They were really cool about it, they came up to Vancouver and they asked me to come into the office to have a meeting. I was like ‘I wonder what they want to talk about? I’m sure they just want to talk about what’s going to happen in Season 2!'”

Obviously, the meeting quickly took a mournful turn. “As we sat down, they just said ‘Hey, man,’ and I looked at them, and I was like, ‘Oh, man! You’re killing me off, aren’t you?!’ It was a bit of a shock, of course it was a shock, because I had one idea of how things might go, but ultimately, once they explained it to me, I totally understand. That’s the way stories have to go sometimes.”

Arrow Finale Shocker: Dead Man Dishes on His Departure and Its "Powerful Impact"
by TIERNEY BRICKER | Wed., May. 15, 2013
https://www.eonline.com/news/418729/arrow-finale-shocker-dead-man-dishes-on-his-departure-and-its-powerful-impact

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We chatted with [Colin] Donnell about Tommy's heroic death, the impact it will have on Oliver and whether or not fans will be seeing him again in flashbacks. Plus, find out what Donnell wants written on Tommy's tombstone!
*  *  *
When did you find out that Tommy would be the one dying in the finale?
I found out towards the end of February. Marc [Guggenheim] and Andrew [Kreisberg] came up to Vancouver to visit the set and they asked me to come in for a meeting while they were there. I was like, ‘It'll be good to see those guys. We'll probably talk about what's coming up for the rest of the season and season two.' And I walked in the room and I was like, ‘Oh, something's different.' [Laughs.] They were really, really cool about it. I don't think it was an easy decision for them to come to by any means, but they were like, ‘There's no easy way to say this.' I was like, ‘You're killing me off, aren't you?' But they were really sweet about the whole thing.

Were you at all suspicious that Tommy's time on the show would be short-lived after he learned Oliver's secret?
Yeah, I tried not to think about something like that over the course of the season because I was just taking it one script at a time.
*  *  *
Are you a little bummed you never got to don the Dark Archer suit or a hood of some kind?
There was all that stuff that would lead people to believe maybe he's going to put on the dark hood eventually. Who wouldn't want to put on a dark good and be an evil character? But I like the way that it all ended up panning out because it really speaks to and stays true to the character Tommy has become over the course of the season.

The show easily could have taken that turn with Tommy when he saw Oliver and Laurel together at the end of the last episode.
It would have been something that everybody would have been like, ‘Oh obviously, we saw that coming.' They made the hard decision and said, ‘We're going to throw everybody for a loop and this is the way it's going to be.'
*  *  *
Have they talked to you about possibly returning for flashbacks sometime down the line? 
There are a lot of flashbacks in this show! [Laughs.] They left the door open in that regard, and time permitting and schedules permitting, I would never say no to these guys. They gave me an amazing opportunity to really somebody who is unknown on this coast. I'm forever grateful for that and I'm excited to see maybe somebody see an earlier version of Tommy, but who knows?

Edited July 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

BB Exclusive: David Ramsey Chats Arrow's Final Season at SDCC
Published on Jul 30, 2019, by Beautiful Ballad

-- On what's on his bucket list for Diggle, DR: "A few things... Number one, what happens ultimately to his relationship with the leader of ARGUS, Lyla MIchaels? Um, I think that's important because - and Lyla plays a very big role in this season... And number two, his two sons that are influential in the future. Um, where was he? What happened? Does Diggle exist in the future? And, um, number three, is he or is he not Green Lantern? ... I mean, all those questions have to be answered - and will be answered in 10 episodes."

-- Referencing the infamous line in last year's Elseworlds crossover, DR: "And 'where's your ring, John?' And that connects obviously to Crisis... And my stepfather is named Stewart. And now - another homage with the uniform that has green piping... I think we better give you guys some answers quickly on that... I know. Now I know what's happening."

-- DR: "My perfect ending for Oliver and Diggle should be much like the beginning, when they agreed to take on this journey together and take care of each other... They're brothers... And I don't think we have to put a button on that. We just have to be real with that... That's why I like the episode where we had that fight so much, because, you know... it was just very well-choreographed at first and then it was just punch and punch and kick, and it was just like, these two guys are brothers, they will not do that. I have two brothers. They're going to break things. They're going to go through windows. There'll be no technique. They're just trying to pummel each other. And Mom is going to come in - and Felicity was Mom - to break it up. To continue to tell that kind of story with these two brothers is the way you end the story. Um, I don't think there has to be a button on it, besides being true to that. And, um - and ultimately knowing now the end, I think that's exactly what happens."

-- On Diggle's biggest obstacle this season, DR: "Wrapping his head around the consequences. Um, what happens with the Monitor is a deep thing. What happens in Crisis is big, big, big - it's a big thing. And, um, it's gonna - it's gonna do something to Diggle particularly. So I think, kinda wrapping his head around that is gonna be a big [unintelligible word-step? struggle?]."

Edited July 31, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

7 big spoilers for Arrow season 8, from huge nostalgia trips to Black Siren's redemption
BY DAVID OPIE  31/07/2019
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a28561976/arrow-season-8-spoilers-cast/

Quote

Ahead of the show’s final outing, we put the cast and crew in our sights, quizzing them on what season 8 has in store. Here’s what they had to say:

1. Oliver Queen will make amends with a "mortal enemy"
...
While season 8 will presumably wrap things up for Arrow as a whole, Oliver in particular will get ahead of the game and make amends with five characters in the first three episodes alone.

According to star Stephen Amell, the people involved will come as a surprise to viewers, hinting that at least some of them might have already left the show before.

While Amell couldn’t elaborate on who these characters might be, at least one is “his f**king mortal enemy”, which suggests that Oliver will do some growing before death comes for him in the near future. Our money’s on Prometheus, the season 5 antagonist who’s already set to return now that Josh Segarra is officially reprising the role.

2. The Diggle/Green Lantern rumours will finally be answered
...
When asked what lies in store for Diggle in the final season of Arrow, David Ramsey reveals that his relationship with Argus and Lyla will be wrapped up by the end, as well as any involvement with his two sons in the future. That’s not all though.
*  *  *
While Ramsey is hesitant to confirm that Diggle will definitely join the intergalactic peace corps, he does say that season 8 will finally address “whether he is or he is not Green Lantern” and that he’s happy with the final outcome.
*  *  *
3. There will be no filler episodes in season 8
...

Veteran Arrow director James Bamford claims that the final season “has zero filler”, explaining that, “Each episode is chock full of spectacle and action and emotion”. Black Canary star Juliana Harkavy alludes to something similar when she says that “It’s larger than life... Each episode is like one little movie".
*  *  *
Wild Dog actor Rick Gonzalez tell us that the show isn’t necessarily moving faster than before, explaining that they're just “cohesively moving to a deadline in a way that doesn’t waste any time”. Dodgy pacing has affected the Arrowverse before, so it’s reassuring to hear that Arrow will stay on target in the final stretch.

4. The premiere will revisit the pilot in some surprising ways
...
We’ve suspected for some time now that the season 8 premiere will skip back in time thanks to the episode’s official title, 'Starling City', which harks back to Star City’s original name. While the cast haven’t revealed the mechanics behind this just yet, showrunner Marc Guggenheim reveals that the upcoming premiere, “is like a mirror image of the pilot”.

However, the episode will still revisit “key moments with a different spin”, which probably explains how newer characters like Wild Dog and Harkavy’s Black Canary will appear, even though they were introduced long after the original season 1 pilot.

Curiously enough, Amell also mentioned that filming the season 8 premiere was easier than usual “because we got to use a bunch of footage from the pilot”.
*  *  *
5. Season 8 will pay tribute to every season of Arrow
...
Guggenheim has already revealed that every episode building up to 'Crisis' sees “Oliver dealing with the various stages of grief that come with that discovery”, but during his discussion with Digital Spy, the Arrow co-creator went into even more detail, explaining that, “there’s an acknowledgement of the entire show’s history in every episode… it’s like we’re playing our greatest hits".
*  *  *
Amell also elaborated on this further by revealing that the first seven episodes of season 8 will pay homage to specific seasons: “Episode one is the pilot… and episode two is an ode to season 3, and episode 3 is also an ode to season 3…” It seems likely then that Oliver will revisit past seasons somehow with the Monitor’s aid, potentially learning from or even undoing his previous experiences.

6. Black Siren will become a hero
...
Katie Cassidy has a lot to be excited for when it comes to the final season of Arrow. Not only will she direct the third episode, but her character Black Siren will sport a new costume to reflect Laurel’s newfound love of heroism.

“We’re fulfilling the promise of her becoming good, of being a hero… teaming up with Oliver and fulfilling his quest to save the multiverse.”
*  *  *
The pair haven’t always seen eye to eye in the past, but Black Siren’s growth has been a real highlight of later seasons and as Cassidy herself predicts, Laurel's evolution into a bonafide hero is “going to be f**king epic".

7. Batwoman represents the future of the Arrowverse
...
With Arrow taking its last bow and Batwoman waiting in the wings, it’s easy to see how Kate Kane’s own brand of crime fighting owes a debt to Oliver Queen and Guggenheim feels the same way.

“The Batwoman pilot is a great successor to Arrow… This is where the whole universe is going. It’s what the future looks like.”

Edited July 31, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[JamieLynn832002]

Has it ever been explicitly stated whether the end of series retrospective is counted as one of the 10 episodes? I would have assumed not but Jane the Virgin's was counted/labeled one of their 100 episodes so it made me wonder.

[tv echo]

^^^
-- CW President Mark Pedowitz: "Arrow is ten episodes, plus a retrospective to celebrate the eighth season." (The CW Upfronts, May 16, 2019: ComicBook article, page 12 of Spoilers thread and page 135 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- ET's Philiana Ng tweeted: "#Arrow will get a retrospective special following its 10-episode final season, with the cast and creative team looking back on the eight-year run. #Upfronts." (The CW Upfronts, May 16, 2019: Philiana Ng tweet, page 135 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Why Oliver Queen's Final Arrow Season Journey Could Be All About Crisis On Infinite Earths
BY LAURA HURLEY   JULY 31, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2476452/why-oliver-queens-final-season-journey-could-be-all-about-crisis-on-infinite-earths 

Quote

... Stephen Amell said this about Oliver early in Season 8:

"Oliver in the first three episodes basically closes the book and reconciles in some way, shape, or form with five different characters that I don't think the fans ever would have expected that he would have reconciled with."
*  *  *
David Ramsey, who plays John Diggle on Arrow, addressed what he's most excited about for "Crisis," and his words also suggest that an ongoing build to the crossover is in the works. Here's how he put it at SDCC:

"I think how we get into 'Crisis.' How we get into it. And each episode is kind of obviously a sprint to that finish line. That's what's kind of exciting me the most. Just in terms of each piece is kind of like, oh, you're getting closer and closer. The anticipation of it. But in terms of 'Crisis' itself, the actual script and what we'll see on that day... I don't know if I have any expectation because I'm kind of deeply involved in the journey at this point... Getting there has been very exciting..."
*  *  *
James Bamford, who will direct the series finale as well as the Season 8 premiere, shared some of what to expect from Arrow when it returns. When asked about the biggest challenge of Season 8 outside of the crossover, Bamford said this:

"The biggest challenge is each episode is being written like a finale. So each episode has the scope and scale and the cast and the budget, the over-budget of a finale. So it's full-on. We are all-hands-on-deck 24 hours a day trying to get just the premiere done, and we're going to be shooting until the end of November. So aside from that, the scripts are coming in early. The writers are delivering these wonderfully crafted epic scripts you'd think are impossible for television. We are charged with making them possible. That's the biggest challenge, and we want to do justice, of course. It's the last season. So we're going, all cylinders are firing, and we're going for it as hard as we can."

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrowverse's The Monitor Talks Crisis on Infinite Earths & Beyond
by Meagan Damore – on Jul 31, 2019  
https://www.cbr.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-monitor-lamonica-garrett-interview/  

Quote

A few weeks ago, executive producer Marc Guggenheim revealed work had begun on the crossover. Have they told you anything about it yet?
[LaMonica Garrett:] ... "Crisis on Infinite Earths," that crossover hasn't started, you know, but like [Arrow showrunner] Beth [Schwartz] said, pretty much Arrow's whole season is a "Crisis" build up, you know, leading up to the "Crisis." So from day one on Arrow Season 8, it starts the "Crisis." It's a prelude to what's happening.
*  *  *
At the end of Arrow Season 7, the Monitor appeared to Oliver and enlisted him for his quest to warn the multiverse about "Crisis." How much will we see you in Season 8?
I think I'll be around. I'll be around kinda like last year, popping up on season finales here. One episode here, two episodes there. It's like he's one of those characters, which is fun, that he's a Where's Waldo kind of. When he comes, it's something ominous that's following you. So it just heightens whatever scene is going on, whatever presence that's already around. It heightens that moment, and it just reminds the audience that "Crisis" is around the corner. So it's one of those things. I won't be on, I don't think, one show every episode. But I will be bouncing around the universe, just to remind people like, "Hey, I got a big brother." That he's coming.
*  *  *
How does the Monitor's relationship with Oliver evolve?
I think they're still at a stage. The rest of the superheroes included, they're trying to figure out if they can trust this guy. Because he comes in, you know, he's not doing the best intentions as far as the audience is seeing... But that was him in the comic book as well. He was an arms dealer to villains. He was doing bad things for a greater good, but you didn't know that at the moment. So I think they're just still trying to figure out if they could trust this guy. He says, "Come with me, and we'll do this." I'm just some guy that came that shows up in your living room... but they've seen how powerful he is. So you gotta roll with it.

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No prob...

The Flash's Eric Wallace Says He's Trying to Borrow Arrow's Mister Terrific
By RUSS BURLINGAME - July 30, 2019
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/31/the-flashs-eric-wallace-says-hes-trying-to-get-mister-terrific-f/ 

Quote

... Played by Echo Kellum, Curtis came into the series a little later, but has made himself a regular presence on the show. The character also appeared in an acclaimed, short-lived series that featured stories written by Eric Wallace.

Wallace, years later, is now the showrunner on Arrow's sister series The Flash, and so when ComicBook.com's Brandon David met with him on the press line at Comic Con International in San Diego earlier this month, we had to ask whether he might bring Curtis on board to tell some of those Mister Terrific stories that he either did tell in the comic, or could have told if he had been on it longer. And, lucky for fans of the series (which includes this writer), the answer is at least a tentative yes.

"I was talking to Marc Guggenheim about this a couple of weeks ago," Wallace admitted. "I said, 'how can I borrow Mister Terrific and get him on The Flash for a while, because I really love the guy?' I’m not saying that’s happening immediately but I’m certainly going to try."

Edited August 1, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Why do MG's words fill me more with dread than with excitement?...

ARROW: Stephen Amell and Marc Guggenheim on the Show’s Very Final Scene
August 2, 2019 by Marisa Roffman   
http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2019/08/02/arrow-series-finale-final-scene-stephen-amell-marc-guggenheim/ 

ARROW: Marc Guggenheim on ARROW's Final Scene
Published on Aug 2, 2019, by GiveMeMyRemoteTV

-- On what he can tease about the final scene of the Arrow tv series (which he's already written), MG: "Well, I'll tell you, the idea - I never intended to write the last scene ahead of time. Um, every morning I meditate and one morning I happened to be meditating, and I came out of meditation and I had the entire last scene. I mean, I just had it. It was in my head. I just took it down on paper. (Mimes typing with his hands) Um, and, you know, what I would say is, it - it just feels right... I've obviously thinking a lot about how we end the series, and Beth Schwartz and I have been talking a lot about how we end the series. And, in many ways, this scene is almost independent of all those conversations. Um, it's really it's own separate thing. In fact, in the stage direction that I wrote, it's like, you know, we do whatever we do and then we dissolve over to now this moment. Um, so it kinda exists on its own terms. And, um, I hope we get to film it. You know, I really - I really do. Um, I think Stephen said, like, there's a few hoops we gotta jump through and hurdles we have to cross in order to make it happen. But, it feels right, um, it feels good, and, uh, it - it just - I'm a very big believer that, you know, when the muse or god hands you the whole package, you listen and you just take dictation and type it down, and that's all I did." When asked if he'll do multiple endings just to see if he's right, MG: "No, no, I'll tell you why not. Um, it's just the nature of television production. Like, you know, um... if I can do it, it's not going to - whether or not I'm quote-unquote 'right' is not going to be determined on how we film it. It'll be determined on whether or not logistically we can film it. If we can, oh, we're going to show it."

ARROW: Stephen Amell Teases the Very Final Scene of the Series
Published on Aug 2, 2019, by GiveMeMyRemoteTV

-- On his reaction to what MG wrote for the final scene of the Arrow tv series, SA: "I haven't read it. I've been pitched it. Um, and, uh, I mean... (pause) ... I can't talk about it. It's really cool. Um, I think that, uh - do you have a favorite finale?" Interviewer: "Probably Season 2." SA: "No. Do you have a favorite series finale?" Interviewer: "Not Game of Thrones." SA: "I loved the Game of Thrones finale, but it was an epilogue. There's a difference." Another interviewer: "Cheers." SA: "Okay. Just [unintelligible word] Cheers. Because the last scene is - it's just Sam going, 'no, we're closed,' and then he goes and he fixes the thing. If I were to pick the way we go out, we would go out like that. And the way Marc pitched it, he was like, 'so you are, like, here,' and I'm like, 'what?' And he goes, 'and then this happens,' and I go, 'oh.' And then that's it. And I go, 'f*ck.' I hope it works out."

Edited August 3, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

KC must have amazing lobbying skills...

Katie Cassidy Rodgers | Arrow Season 8 | Comic-Con 2019
Published on Aug 2, 2019, by KSiteTV

-- After commenting on her cool new costume, on what her character is calling herself now, Black Siren or Black Canary, KC: "She's the Black Canary... and she's also really come into her own in taking a stand, and it's going to be awesome."

-- On whether her character is now the Laurel that she always hoped for her to be, KC: "Hell, yes. I wanted her to be, like, strong... I like to consider her her own island, because she should be, she can be. Why not? And, um, just being strong. And she is that."

Edited August 3, 2019 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

20 minutes ago, tv echo said:

KC: "She's the Black Canary

Arrow still hasn’t told me why this Laurel wants to be a Black Canary and couldn’t have just kept the Black Siren title and made it something good or come up with something new. (And then stand out from all the other Canaries in the future.) And I doubt it will in Season 8 either because it seems to simply be KC/LL must be BC. 

(And I don’t buy it if the reason is Star City knows Laurel as BC because what about Dinah? Also, SC wouldn’t care, if we’re being honest.)

[Featherhat]

42 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Why do MG's words fill me more with dread than with excitement?...

ARROW: Stephen Amell and Marc Guggenheim on the Show’s Very Final Scene
August 2, 2019 by Marisa Roffman   
http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2019/08/02/arrow-series-finale-final-scene-stephen-amell-marc-guggenheim/ 

ARROW: Marc Guggenheim on ARROW's Final Scene
Published on Aug 2, 2019, by GiveMeMyRemoteTV

-- On what he can tease about the final scene of the Arrow tv series (which he's already written), MG: "Well, I'll tell you, the idea - I never intended to write the last scene ahead of time. Um, every morning I meditate and one morning I happened to be meditating, and I came out of meditation and I had the entire last scene. I mean, I just had it. It was in my head. I just took it down on paper. (Mimes typing with his hands) Um, and, you know, what I would say is, it - it just feels right... I've obviously thinking a lot about how we end the series, and Beth Schwartz and I have been talking a lot about how we end the series. And, in many ways, this scene is almost independent of all those conversations. Um, it's really it's own separate thing. In fact, in the stage direction that I wrote, it's like, you know, we do whatever we do and then we dissolve over to now this moment. Um, so it kinda exists on its own terms. And, um, I hope we get to film it. You know, I really - I really do. Um, I think Stephen said, like, there's a few hoops we gotta jump through and hurdles we have to cross in order to make it happen. But, it feels right, um, it feels good, and, uh, it - it just - I'm a very big believer that, you know, when the muse or god hands you the whole package, you listen and you just take dictation and type it down, and that's all I did." When asked if he'll do multiple endings just to see if he's right, MG: "No, no, I'll tell you why not. Um, it's just the nature of television production. Like, you know, um... if I can do it, it's not going to - whether or not I'm quote-unquote 'right' is not going to be determined on how we film it. It'll be determined on whether or not logistically we can film it. If we can, oh, we're going to show it."

ARROW: Stephen Amell Teases the Very Final Scene of the Series
Published on Aug 2, 2019, by GiveMeMyRemoteTV

-- On his reaction to what MG wrote for the final scene of the Arrow tv series, SA: "I haven't read it. I've been pitched it. Um, and, uh, I mean... (pause) ... I can't talk about it. It's really cool. Um, I think that, uh - do you have a favorite finale?" Interviewer: "Probably Season 2." SA: "No. Do you have a favorite series finale?" Interviewer: "Not Game of Thrones." SA: "I loved the Game of Thrones finale, but it was an epilogue. There's a difference." Another interviewer: "Cheers." SA: "Okay. Just [unintelligible word] Cheers. Because the last scene is - it's just Sam going, 'no, we're closed,' and then he goes and he fixes the thing. If I were to pick the way we go out, we would go out like that. And the way Marc pitched it, he was like, 'so you are, like, here,' and I'm like, 'what?' And he goes, 'and then this happens,' and I go, 'oh.' And then that's it. And I go, 'f*ck.' I hope it works out."

He also said it's a happy ending previously. I think it might end up being one of those weird 30 seconds that ends up annoying people and/or derailing the whole damn thing, but sigh, who knows. If it does I'll just use 7x22 as my finale. 

As for KC, well she's the damn BC and she's sticking to it, even though Dinah is as well (and Zoe in the future). Since it's always what she wanted in the first place, even though she was only 2nd best BC even then. As well as being the LI but that's out unless the last scene is totally insane (joking). So she's off kicking ass doing her own thing, joining with Dinah and maybe assisting Oliver in the first ep. This could be more than she's had to do since S2, potentially. Then again she has her headcannons. 

[tv echo]

Honestly, I'm confused. We know from last season's flashforwards that Dinah is known to the public as the Black Canary in the future and that there's this whole Canaries network. So are they all known as the Black Canary?

If E2 Laurel stayed on Earth 2 and was known as the Black Canary there, then maybe that'd be less confusing. But we know she comes to Earth in the future to help Mia, but we don't know when she returned or for how long she's been on our Earth.

And if COIE collapses the multiverse, leaving only our Earth, then we have two (or more) Black Canaries in the future, each known as the Black Canary? Or does the future change so as to eliminate Dinah as the Black Canary?

But if the future changes, then what does that do to a possible Next Gen spin-off, starring the OTA kids?

The whole Canaries thing is a mess.

Edited August 3, 2019 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

MG and co. have seemed sour to Black Canary since Season 3 and have had no problems diminishing  Black Canary as a character so it's no surprise that they just see it as a title and nothing more. It's been one the more controversial aspects of the show so why not try to pull a Buffy (that they love) and make EVERYONE a Black Canary but put no actual story or emotion behind it.

[Primal Slayer]

34 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Arrow still hasn’t told me why this Laurel wants to be a Black Canary and couldn’t have just kept the Black Siren title and made it something good or come up with something new. (And then stand out from all the other Canaries in the future.) And I doubt it will in Season 8 either because it seems to simply be KC/LL must be BC. 

(And I don’t buy it if the reason is Star City knows Laurel as BC because what about Dinah? Also, SC wouldn’t care, if we’re being honest.)

Had Dinah not been around, her taking up the BC mantle I would've liked more but since Dinah is around....I would've preferred she stay Black Siren as well. But we know they barely care about that kind of character development.

[tv echo]

Also, both KC and JH have loved the idea of a Birds of Prey spin-off. Although I doubt it will happen (because of the big screen movie), if it did, then which one would be the Black Canary?

[apinknightmare]

Eh, who cares about Black Canary? There are 100 of them. There’s nothing special about the name, no motivating factor to be one. Anyone who has a modicum of fighting ability and can fit into leather pants can take the name - you don’t even have to be a good person. 

The Black Canary is superhero clown shoes on this show. 🤡 

Edited August 3, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

9 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Also, both KC and JH have loved the idea of a Birds of Prey spin-off. Although I doubt it will happen (because of the big screen movie), if it did, then which one would be the Black Canary?

KC would be the more "popular" choice while JH would be the cheaper choice...if they were to do it and bring them both on I wouldn't be surprised if they just gave one another title. Obviously setting it on a different Earth would've been the best choice but we have COIE...which I guess could also fix the Canary issue.

[tv echo]

Pro-Laurel sites are picking up on KC's comments at SDCC...

Laurel May Travel The Multiverse With Oliver In Arrow Season 8
By Eric Joseph   August 2, 2019
https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/laurel-travel-multiverse-oliver-arrow-season-8/ 

Quote

According to actress Katie Cassidy herself, her evolution into a full-fledged hero is “going to be f**king epic,” but the other thing she recently had to say really caught my attention:

“We’re fulfilling the promise of her becoming good, of being a hero… teaming up with Oliver and fulfilling his quest to save the multiverse.”
*  *  *
Now, there is some room for interpretation there, but it sounds to me like Laurel will join Oliver as he travels the multiverse this fall. Granted, her kicking ass alongside the Emerald Archer was a given, though learning she may get in on the sci-fi action is huge.

As you may have heard, Ollie is indeed working with the Monitor, so it should be intriguing to see if Mar-Novu shares any scenes with Laurel. If not, at least we’re guaranteed more of her going forward. Hey, if this series isn’t ending with a Green Arrow-Black Canary romance, then I suppose this is the next best thing.

Edited August 3, 2019 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

25 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Also, both KC and JH have loved the idea of a Birds of Prey spin-off. Although I doubt it will happen (because of the big screen movie), if it did, then which one would be the Black Canary?

Both. And it wouldn’t be Birds of Prey. It would be called Black Canaries. And somehow they’d be able to tell which Black Canary someone wanted by the inflection in their voice. Also, it would totally be a comedy. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

if this series isn’t ending with a Green Arrow-Black Canary romance,

If? Really? I think the better word choice would’ve been “since” or “because.” “If” implies something could still happen. I suspect we’ll keep seeing articles like this even after Arrow is over.

[Velocity23]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

KC would be the more "popular" choice while JH would be the cheaper choice...if they were to do it and bring them both on I wouldn't be surprised if they just gave one another title. Obviously setting it on a different Earth would've been the best choice but we have COIE...which I guess could also fix the Canary issue.

any chance KC had of getting her spinoff died in s2. Also i dont think the CW has enough faith in either of them to carry their own show.  Either of them is basically only good enough to be a supporting character to a much younger lead. And basically in a mentor role. I think all of them know this because of how the people incharge decide to shorten season 8. When there was talk to going on even after Stephen left. WB/CW realized none of the talent who were team Arrow could carry a show. 

Regarding KC and how we see some promo with Black Canary attached to her name i wonder if its just so people associate Black Canary again (and probably what she wanted through her negotiations) or will it be reflected on the show also. Because for all purposes Dinah is the face of the Canaries in the future. Both actresses consider each other Black Canary so i bet it wasnt determined that either of them be THE Canary. They arent like Highlander where it can be only one. 

Also it seems the people who will be left in Star City will be responsible for the downfall of the city. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Velocity23

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

any chance KC had of getting her spinoff died in s2. Also i dont think the CW has enough faith in either of them to carry their own show.  Either of them is basically only good enough to be a supporting character to a much younger lead. And basically in a mentor role. I think all of them know this because of how the people incharge decide to shorten season 8. When there was talk to going on even after Stephen left. WB/CW realized none of the talent who were team Arrow could carry a show. 

Regarding KC and how we see some promo with Black Canary attached to her name i wonder if its just so people associate Black Canary again (and probably what she wanted through her negotiations) or will it be reflected on the show also. Because for all purposes Dinah is the face of the Canaries in the future. Both actresses consider each other Black Canary so i bet it wasnt determined that either of them be THE Canary. They arent like Highlander where it can be only one. 

Also it seems the people who will be left in Star City will be responsible for the downfall of the city. 

Luckily when it comes to Birds of Prey it's a 2-3 person lead show so it wouldn't be something that either of them would be the sole lead of. Birds of Prey was always a natural spin off in the Arrowverse imo but if they didn't do it earlier then they probably won't do it later.

I think once they gave E2 Laurel, E1 Laurels suit that she'd be a Black Canary again. Even if I wasnt a fan of it, giving her E1's suit and still have her go by Black Siren wouldn't make that much sense. Just Arrows lazy way to try to make fans happy and shut them up.

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Luckily when it comes to Birds of Prey it's a 2-3 person lead show so it wouldn't be something that either of them would be the sole lead of. Birds of Prey was always a natural spin off in the Arrowverse imo but if they didn't do it earlier then they probably won't do it later.

I think once they gave E2 Laurel, E1 Laurels suit that she'd be a Black Canary again. Even if I wasnt a fan of it, giving her E1's suit and still have her go by Black Siren wouldn't make that much sense. Just Arrows lazy way to try to make fans happy and shut them up.

It would have been a natural spinoff but i am not sure Katie would have been given the role of Black Canary. I think it would definetely go to the other Caity. At that time i dont think the network had much faith in Katie as being able to carry a show. After Melrose Place and the way her role developed on Arrow. It honestly did nothing good to her credence as a leading lady. Even if we say the CW might overlook that and tries to go forward with a spinoff with JH and KC? We know that it probably wont happen before 2021/2022 since it seems Marc, Beth and Berlanti are more interested in Star City 2040 spinoff for the next season. And that show seems to want to keep the BC role with Zoe Ramirez. With Marc saying they going to try getting Kat to SDCC very soon it seems very probable they pushing for it. By 2021/2022 KC and JH will be almost 35 and 37 years old. No matter how people spin i think that is out of the demo for the CW.  The best chance either JH or KC have to reprising the BC role is landing a role either on LOT or Batwoman or even a mentor role on the new spinoff. 

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

. No matter how people spin i think that is out of the demo for the CW.  

TheCW does take risks, they have a show where the lead is in his to be 50s so I think they'd give a show to a 35 year old woman esp if they have two other characters of varying ages. 

[tv echo]

Looks like they started shooting 803 on Friday (which was also the last scheduled day of shooting 802)...

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marc Guggenheim on Crisis on Infinite Earths & Felicity Smoak's Return | Arrow Season 8
Published on Aug 3, 2019, by KSiteTV

-- On what he can tease about what's going on in the future, MG: "I think the fun thing about that storyline is, we're getting the chance to tell a story that we didn't get a chance to tell in Seasons, you know, 1 through, you know, 7, which were, you know, for as many internecine conflicts Team Arrow has had, they pretty much came into existence and were a well-oiled machine. You know, Original Team Arrow for sure was like, oh, it just works. It just works. Um, so we never got to tell the story of what happens when you're brand new at this and you're young and the growing pains. That's what we're getting a chance to, you know, explore in Season 8, and that's a lot of fun."

-- On the chances of seeing Felicity again by the end of the series, MG: "Um, you know, we're having those conversations. Um, it's - it's up to Emily. Uh, we obviously, of course, would love to have her back. At the same time, you know, we respect whatever she wants to do. Um, we wrote an ending to the character that works as an ending to the character. Um, and we'll see what the future holds."

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Katherine McNamara Instagram Live - August 3
Published on Aug 3, 2019, by Golden Warrior

-- KM: "I'm in a very silly mood today, guys. It's because I was up for 24 hours yesterday 'cause, of course, I'm a crazy person and woke up far too early because I wanted to work out and then had to go shoot Arrow, which turned into all night. But it's great. You know, I kinda love those days because everybody gets super silly at about 3 am and, uh, it's fun to have, you know, to get to know this new - these new folks, because I love them too. They're wonderful."

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

17 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

TheCW does take risks, they have a show where the lead is in his to be 50s so I think they'd give a show to a 35 year old woman esp if they have two other characters of varying ages. 

I think a show like BL which portrayed a black family with 2 young black female superheroes has more appeal to the CW than trying another go with an actress and character that has been on the same network for almost  decade now. Katie and the Black Canary saga carries too much baggage IMO. I think its the reason why the possible spinoff that actually picked up momentum would be the legacy kids 

[tv echo]

Hollywood still has the double standard where you can have action films starring actors in their 50's and 60's (Tom Cruise, Vin Diesel, Liam Neeson, etc.), but female heroes who star in such films are usually cast with women no older than their 30's. (Even the female love interests of these increasingly older male heroes seem to be limited to women under 40.) That's changing a little, but not enough.

The CW then scales down about 10 years for their shows' casts.

ETA: Cress Williams is 49.

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

I think the time for a BC/BOP spin off has past, though I could see both actresses on the CW in the future in different shows. The one they are or were talking about is/was Arrow:2040 which already has a BC in the team. Depending on how Arrow ends I can see them doing guest spots on other shows but I'd rather not. I think the future's staying the same because why tell the origin and growing pains of this young team if they're going to be wiped out or changed in 10 eps?

Seems like EBR might have again said she doesn't want to come back (like she did in her exit interview that she felt done) but maybe they haven't actually got that 100% yet. At this point I'm doubtful.

[Velocity23]

6 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I think the time for a BC/BOP spin off has past, though I could see both actresses on the CW in the future in different shows. The one they are or were talking about is/was Arrow:2040 which already has a BC in the team. Depending on how Arrow ends I can see them doing guest spots on other shows but I'd rather not. I think the future's staying the same because why tell the origin and growing pains of this young team if they're going to be wiped out or changed in 10 eps?

Seems like EBR might have again said she doesn't want to come back (like she did in her exit interview that she felt done) but maybe they haven't actually got that 100% yet. At this point I'm doubtful.

When?

Cuz from what i saw she said she is going back to Vancouver and she is taking a break. Since MG implied they will have talks seems it makes me think these talks will be happening soon now that her play is finished. If there is nothing signed yet i dont think we will be hearing a different answer. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Velocity23

[Featherhat]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

When?

With the is EBR coming back stuff just posted? I know they're all still quotes from SDCC and associated days but it just seems "yeah we're going to talk to her but we don't think she wants to come back but never say never." As probably not IMHO. But again I might be reading too much into it. I guess I'm just doubtful and not getting my hopes up. We'll see what everyone has to say today at the TCAs. 

[Velocity23]

8 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

With the is EBR coming back stuff just posted? I know they're all still quotes from SDCC and associated days but it just seems "yeah we're going to talk to her but we don't think she wants to come back but never say never." As probably not IMHO. But again I might be reading too much into it. I guess I'm just doubtful and not getting my hopes up. We'll see what everyone has to say today at the TCAs. 

I honestly dont expect them to give a clear answer until she either starts filming or they ready to make an announcment. IMO if there was no chances of her returning there would not make plans to have talks after her play.  Also they keeping it a secret who is returning or not for all the characters that have left the show in previous seasons. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Velocity23

[tv echo]

From late Friday night/early Saturday morning...

-- SA: "It is a little bit after midnight on Friday evening, Saturday morning, and I've just wrapped episode 802 of Arrow. That's 2 down, 8 to go."

-- SA: "I want to thank Antonio Negret, who directed his first episode in Season 3 and always painstakingly but diligently delivers really, really wonderful content for us."

-- SA: "I would like to really, really thank again the Set Dec Department because we had to recreate something that hadn't been seen on the show in several seasons and, uh, they did a great job."

-- SA: "I would really like to thank, um, the guest star that I can't talk about, that I'm pretty sure hasn't been renounced - renounced, announced. Um, but they were wonderful. And they were very gracious to come back. And I thought that we shared some wonderful moments together."

And from earlier today...

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Pretty sure that's Charlie Barnett on the left (fyi, he's 6'1", same height as SA), so I guess he's also at the TCAs...

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Im surprised that they've gone this long with no real Pap photos. Has that much of it been filmed in studio?

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Im surprised that they've gone this long with no real Pap photos. Has that much of it been filmed in studio?

Seems majority of it has been filmed in the studio. Its probably to not spoil all the guest appearances.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

808 air date...

Arrowverse 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' Crossover Adds Black Lightning Stars, Bruce Wayne — Get Full Schedule
By Matt Webb Mitovich / August 4 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/08/04/arrowverse-crisis-crossover-schedule-black-lightning-cast/

Quote

Arrow: Tuesday, Jan. 14 at 8 pm (special time)

Edited August 4, 2019 by tv echo