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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Arrow

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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow's Ben Lewis breaks down that 'strange' family reunion: We were 'emotionally exhausted'
By Chancellor Agard November 05, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/05/arrow-ben-lewis-8x04-william-mia-oliver-reunion/

Quote

Connor, Mia, and William don’t return to the future. How long can we expect them to stick around in the present?
I can’t say how long, but I can say that there will be several missions. Obviously, the missions are extra special because it’s members of OTA and members of FTA working together for the first time. As always on Arrow, the stakes are extremely high, but they may be even higher and more dynamic by these added family dynamics. [They] just make it even more potent and dramatic.

Going forward, does William still view this as an opportunity to change the future?
I think they all feel that way. I think they all sort of recognize the toll that the future takes on their children and that they have an opportunity to potentially rewrite that future and create a better, safer version of Star City for their kids. I think [that’s] what really drives and motivates them over the next few episodes.

How does William being back in the present with Oliver affect him going forward?
Everybody falls into their roles to play quickly because there’s a lot to do. They have to get down to business and they have to work together if they want a chance to save the future.

We still don’t know why the Monitor brought FTA back to the year 2019, and I can’t imagine it’s because he just likes drama, which he clearly does. What can you tease about his motivation?
Yeah, I think the Monitor and the fans have that in common, and the writers as well. I don’t think I can speak to why the Monitor did this, but I can say I think from a creative standpoint, I think the writers really recognized maybe some of the concerns that some of the fans had about the future storyline just being a little bit grim and hopeless. Now that’s really been turned on its head and anything is possible.

Looking ahead, what are you most excited about fans to see after 804?
In 805, if you thought William was impressive before, just wait until you hear him speak Russian.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow's Ben Lewis Says Oliver and William's Reunion Has a 'Huge Emotional Impact'
By Lindsay MacDonald | Nov 5, 2019
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-episode-4-ben-lewis-interview-oliver-william-reunion/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b

Quote

Why do you think it was so much easier for William to dive headfirst into reuniting with his dad than it was for Mia?
Lewis: I think that you see in this episode, and you will see in the coming episodes, that Oliver and Mia butt heads a lot just because of how similar they are. I think they see a lot of themselves in each other. I think because Mia never really got the chance to know Oliver, there's just been a lot of confusing mythology that she's grown up with, if that makes sense. She's really struggled with a lot of the different narratives that she's been told about her father. I think, more than anything, she really is deeply wounded and traumatized by her feelings of abandonment. Whereas William, he didn't have a lot of time with his dad, but he knows his dad. He knows who he is and the type of guy he is. Of course, they haven't always seen eye to eye themselves, but I think that losing his father at such a young age and, as we see in this episode, not having the opportunity to come out to him for example before he died — William's probably harbored a lot of regret about things left unsaid to Oliver, never imagining that he would have an opportunity to see him again. So, I think for William, I think he feels more purely grateful for the opportunity to see Oliver again, whereas for Mia, it brings up a lot of hard feelings.
*  *  *
There was a lot of talk in this episode about changing the future. Will Mia and William see this as an opportunity to try to save their dad's life?
Lewis: I think that particularly where they're at in 804 — I think anything seems possible. If it's possible to travel back in time 20 years and see your dead father, the sky's the limit. You know? So I think of course they are hopeful there might be a way to find a better outcome, not only for Oliver but for Zoe (Andrea Sixtos), for JJ (Charlie Barnett), and for the entire future of Star City. I think this development, going back in time, sort of blows the lid off of anything they really thought was possible before.

What can you say, if anything, about why the Monitor may have dropped them in the past?
Lewis: I don't know that I can speak for the Monitor's motivation, but I think from a creative perspective, I think giving Oliver this opportunity to reunite with his kids and giving them the opportunity to reunite with their father is something that I think the fans have clearly expressed that they wanted to see. Even just since the ending of 803 last week, the response has been so amazing. Even people who are a little skeptical about the future storyline just in general... I think a lot of people who were critical of that, their feelings have sort of shifted because now there's hope for Star City again.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Ben Lewis Breaks Down a Beautiful Father-Son 'Arrow' Scene (VIDEO)
Damian Holbrook November 05, 2019
https://www.tvinsider.com/829304/ben-lewis-arrow-season-8-episode-4-oliver-william-coming-out/ 

Quote

What does William's arrival in this timeline mean for Team Arrow?
I think it’s very meaningful to William to get to show his dad how far he’s come and how he’s personally able to contribute to Team Arrow. And for me, I think it’s important for young boys watching to see that you don’t need to be physically dominating—or be able to do a salmon ladder—to make the world a safer, better place. [Laughs] Like Felicity before him, William really shows that there’s more than one way to be a hero.

And in the same way that William takes after Felicity, Mia obviously takes after Oliver. As we saw in 803, Mia struggles with teamwork and allowing William to play his role if it means putting himself in harm’s way. As a result, they lost Zoe, so now the challenge becomes, how do OTA and FTA work together to protect and possibly rewrite the future of Star City?

How long should we expect his crew to stick around?
I can’t say an exact amount of time or how many episodes, but it’s enough to make a really dramatic impact on everyone involved. I can’t wait for the fans to see these next few episodes, because every one of them feels so vital and important. Beth and the writers are really not f**king around. [Laughs]

Edited by tv echo
Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

Will any other characters from Arrow’s 2040 storyline be included in the Green Arrow and the Canaries spin-off? –Matt
Charlie Barnett, who plays JJ/Deathstroke, told me that he appears in the backdoor pilot episode.

https://tvline.com/2019/11/06/walking-dead-season-10-spoilers-negan-tested-by-alpha/

way2interested

way2interested

806 press release

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/11/arrow-episode-806-reset-press-release.html

Quote

ARROW
“Reset” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

YOU CAN’T FIGHT YOUR FATE – After being double-crossed by Lyla (guest star Audrey Marie Anderson), Oliver (Stephen Amell) finds himself facing a life or death situation that seems
very familiar. Laurel (Katie Cassidy) has the opportunity to make amends with the past. David Ramsey directed the episode written by Onalee Hunter Hughes & Maya Houston (#806).
Original airdate 11/26/2019.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Quote

ARROW
“Reset” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

YOU CAN’T FIGHT YOUR FATE – After being double-crossed by Lyla (guest star Audrey Marie Anderson), Oliver (Stephen Amell) finds himself facing a life or death situation that seems very familiar. Laurel (Katie Cassidy) has the opportunity to make amends with the past. 

Lyla, no!

Does he end up on Lian Yu again? Or is that just in the following episode?

Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)
15 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Lyla, no!

Does he end up on Lian Yu again? Or is that just in the following episode?

That's the Shocking Cliffhanger of that episode. 

Soooo curious about Reset and what it means. Does all the meeting up get wiped away? Is that what you meant OB?

Though aren't there pics of FTA on Lian Yu and isn't that the "lots of people on the team" ep? And IIRC SA says Oliver once again has to choose to believe in Felicity's promise that they will meet again and a big test. I hope that's actually reflected in the episode.

There will be lots of non stop drama leading into COIE though. 

Edited by Featherhat
way2interested

way2interested

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Does he end up on Lian Yu again? Or is that just in the following episode?

807 is the one named "Purgatory" with Yao Fei coming back and what looks like FTA at the Lian Yu prison set, but I think the 2 have to be connected with 807 being Oliver's last big test

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

14 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Soooo curious about Reset and what it means. Does all the meeting up get wiped away? Is that what you meant OB?

Maybe Laurel does actually betray Oliver and get E-2 back, then it winds up affecting other things, so she does something to undo the bringing back of E-2, and that's the "reset" for her arc. IDK how it would pertain to Oliver's, unless maybe it's referring to him ending up on Lian Yu where this whole thing started.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
14 hours ago, way2interested said:

806 press release

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/11/arrow-episode-806-reset-press-release.html

If you recall, IMDb is listing a character named "Vincent" (but played by Bradley Stryker, not Johann Urb) among the guest cast for 806. Maybe E2 Laurel has the chance to go back and undo Vince's death (thereby absolving her of all past murders), but they couldn't get the same actor to play him. Or maybe she saves the life of Vince on an alternate Earth. Or maybe it's just an entirely new character who happens to be named Vincent. Who knows? Who cares? Right now, I have zero interest in this episode (unless it turns out FTA returns to the future and finds things changed).

Bradley Stryker's IMDb credits list is too long for him just to be a background player or cameo in this episode.

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
13 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Though aren't there pics of FTA on Lian Yu and isn't that the "lots of people on the team" ep? And IIRC SA says Oliver once again has to choose to believe in Felicity's promise that they will meet again and a big test. I hope that's actually reflected in the episode.

-- SA: "He might face a test, apparently in episode 7, which is our last episode before the crossover. ... This final season is more about resolve. ... I don't know what the test is per se. I think the biggest thing is, is just him believing Felicity when she says, ‘Whatever happens, whatever happens to you, I’ll find you.’ That’s his guiding light." (Sep. 13, 2019 Entertainment Weekly article & video, page 4 of Spoilers thread and page 15 of Spoiler Discussion Final thread)

Edited by tv echo
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

(edited)
31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Also, it looks like E2 Laurel is teaming up with Anatoly...

“Remember when we inexplicably worked for Diaz when either one of us could have been a Big Bad on our own and crushed him with one hand while he mumbled away?”

Edited by insomniadreams88
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way2interested

way2interested

53 minutes ago, tv echo said:

If you recall, IMDb is listing a character named "Vincent" (but played by Bradley Stryker, not Johann Urb) among the guest cast for 806. Maybe E2 Laurel has the chance to go back and undo Vince's death (thereby absolving her of all past murders),

Didn't they already switch actors for Vince from s5 to s6? Maybe they'd do it again and have it that he faked his death again, so that Laurel still gets her big kill that the narrative remembered null and void, which would still make me lol

34 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Will we see Oliver fight Mia in 805 (Prochnost)?...

Looks like they tag team to me, but I laughed at one of the pics that looks like Oliver finds out right in the middle of the fight what his daughter did for money in the future

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Vincent Sobel was played by Clayton James f/k/a Clayton Chitty in 5x11 (Second Chances).

Vincent Sobel/Vigilante was then played by Johann Urb in 6x05 (Deathstroke Returns), 6x09 (Irreconcilable Differences), 6x10 (Divided), 6x11 (We Fall) and 6x12 (All for Nothing).

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

When you basically have the same bosses, why would you use the same episode titles in so many different shows in the same shared universe? ...

Tremors
Arrow 212
Supergirl 507 (airing Nov. 17, 2019)

Seeing Red
Arrow 220
Flash 511

Left Behind
Arrow 310
LoT 109

Legacy 
Arrow 501
Flash 522

Who Are You?
Arrow 510
Batwoman 104

Dangerous Liaisons
Arrow 519
Supergirl 505 (airing Nov. 3, 2019)

Fallout
Arrow 601
Flash 114
Supergirl 402

Edited by tv echo
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Trisha

Trisha

(edited)

As expected, retrospective will air before the finale:

https://telltaletv.com/2019/11/the-cw-announces-series-finale-dates-for-arrow-supernatural/

Quote

Arrow will be concluding Oliver Queen’s journey Tuesday, January 28, with a one-hour finale preview set to air at 8/7c leading up to the show’s series finale. Production is currently underway on the final episode of the series. 

Edited by Trisha
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

7 Things We Want to See in Felicity's 'Arrow' Series Finale Return (PHOTOS)
Meredith Jacobs November 08, 2019
https://www.tvinsider.com/gallery/arrow-series-finale-emily-bett-rickards-returning-felicity-oliver/ 

Quote

Arrow couldn't say goodbye without Felicity Smoak, and fortunately, it won't have to.

Emily Bett Rickards is returning for the series finale, and considering the future is already presumably changing — the kids were pulled back in time from 2040, and characters who didn't know Felicity and Oliver's (Stephen Amell) daughter, Mia (Katherine McNamara), existed in the future now do in the present — we have to wonder if any of her Season 7 finale exit in either timeline will change.
*  *  *
Smoak Tech Update
Felicity finally started her own company in the final season, though we didn't get to see much of it onscreen. (We did see her office in the flashforwards.) Even if it's just one sentence, hopefully we hear about her helping people with her work outside of the team as well, since it had been so important to her.
*  *  *
Felicity and Her Kids
As of Season 8, Episode 4, "Present Tense," Oliver has met the future versions of William and Mia. (They held off on calling Felicity.) We only got a few scenes of her with both of her kids in the Season 7 flashforwards, but hopefully we get to see Felicity with both William and Mia (kid or adult versions).
*  *  *
Felicity as Overwatch
Heroes aren't just the ones who fight in the field. Felicity has been one of the most important members of the team since the first season, operating as Overwatch. At the beginning of Season 4, even when Oliver had been happy to hang up the hood, she still worked with the team because it gave her a sense of purpose. And we know that she did some work as Overwatch in the future as well. Let's see her working from behind a computer or on a tablet one more time.
*  *  *
Felicity and Diggle
Though we didn't get as many scenes between these two in the later seasons, the early ones established they have a deep bond. (Remember when he watched over her when Slade was out there in Season 2?) As the team has grown, we've gotten fewer and fewer moments, but her return would certainly be the right time for another.
*  *  *
A Complete Family Reunion
Oliver and Felicity have both spent time with their children separately. Their plan had been to try to get custody of William after Mia's birth — until The Monitor showed up to collect on the deal Oliver made with him. It wouldn't be right to end the series without seeing all four of them together.
*  *  *
OTA: It Started With the Three of Them
There have been quite a few versions of Team Arrow over the years, but there's only one Original Team Arrow: Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity. The three of them have always worked so well together, from the moment Felicity became an official member of the team and drove an injured Oliver back to the bunker in Season 1. Their scenes in the bunker and Oliver and Felicity's cabin were highlights of the Season 7 finale. It wouldn't be right for the series to end without one more OTA scene.
*  *  *
As Happy an Ending as Oliver and Felicity Can Get
This is a given, especially after the two were separated soon after Mia was born and Oliver presumably dies in "Crisis." But 20 years later, Felicity was likely going to see him again somehow, given her final scene with The Monitor. Whether we see what happens after she stepped into the portal or the future is changed and Oliver and Felicity don't have to have a 20-year separation, let's just hope there's more love and happiness for them in the finale.

Edited by tv echo
  • Love 4
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Only LMG's Arrow-specific comments are quoted below...

Crisis on Infinite Earths star says the DC TV crossover will “shock” fans
Morgan Jeffery   11th November 2019
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-11-11/crisis-on-infinite-earths-spoilers/ 

Quote

Arrow, the first of the current wave of DC TV shows which launched the ‘Arrowverse’, is currently airing its eighth and final season, with two final episodes will follow the Crisis event, with the series finale Fadeout airing 28th January in the US.
*  *  *
“It’s the final season and you could tell that, like, the end of camp was coming,” Garrett said of filming the last episodes. “Like say, you went to this big camp in the summer and everyone’s having fun and it’s great… and then you know it’s winding down. It was more sentimental, I felt, the energy for Arrow.

“There was this realisation that this is all coming to an end, I’ve never been on a show for eight years so I can’t even imagine, but it’s gotta be hard.”

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

FWIW, Pagey heard that Felicity is only in two scenes in the series finale...

Multiple *SPOILERS* Return for Arrow FINALE! How Do They Come Back?! - Arrow Season 8
Pagey   Nov. 11, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFfOpVLQiw0

-- Pagey pointed out that, in SA's Nov. 6, 2019 tweet ("Tonight is the last night I wear the Arrow suit."), the tweeted pic shows Oliver wearing his S1 suit with the greasepaint around his eyes (no mask). So he could be S1 Oliver or there could be some time loop that brings Oliver back around to S1.

-- Pagey mentioned the news that EBR will be back as Felicity in the series finale. Pagey: "Apparently - I don't know if this is true, do not take this as concrete information at all, because I just heard it randomly, um, from someone who has said some true stuff in the past, but I don't know if it's true at all. Apparently it's only two scenes. Um, one might be like present day Felicity. One might be that older version of Felicity that we saw go into, I guess, like the paradise dimension at the end of Arrow last season. It could just be a scene with each of those versions. But I have to wait and see if that's correct. This could just be someone guessing. But they have been right in the past in regards to some information. So I have to wait and see in regards to that."

-- Pagey then talked about other spoilers that we already know (PB's return as Quentin Lance, CH's and DN's return in 805, JJ being in the backdoor pilot/809).

Edited by tv echo
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

41 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Pagey: "Apparently - I don't know if this is true, do not take this as concrete information at all, because I just heard it randomly, um, from someone who has said some true stuff in the past, but I don't know if it's true at all. Apparently it's only two scenes. Um, one might be like present day Felicity. One might be that older version of Felicity that we saw go into, I guess, like the paradise dimension at the end of Arrow last season. It could just be a scene with each of those versions. But I have to wait and see if that's correct. This could just be someone guessing. But they have been right in the past in regards to some information. So I have to wait and see in regards to that."

Wow, he sounds pretty sure of himself LOL.

If he does happy to be right, that's one more scene than I was expecting, so.

  • Love 1
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

This caption makes it seem like it’s a new pic but he has short hair and this looks like the S1 bunker. Is the finale flashing back to the beginning at some point?

Probably. He was wearing his S1 suit with the eyeblack instead of a mask when he posted about wearing the suit for the last time the other day. Seems like he's wearing it in this pic too, but I'm not 100%.

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Featherhat

Featherhat

Pagey has been extremely hit and miss with spoilers but it wouldn't surprise me if this is true. Considering the probable nature of the final episode and the fact that they didn't know (allegedly) that she was coming back for sure until recently, it was never going to be a Thea/Tatsu etc style ep. Two new scenes is actually one more than I might have been expecting as well. 

Wouldn't be surprised if we get a new flashback to the foundry or possibly some post COIE stuff there. It's certainly my favourite suit. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Remember that Vimeo audition video of actress Chanika Desilva* who was auditioning for the role of "Bianca Scott" (previously posted)? Well, another actress, Hailey Graves, has posted her audition video of the same two audition scenes, although there are minor dialogue variations (again, strong Buffy vibes)...

(* At the beginning of Chanika Desilva's audition video, a title caption briefly appeared in the bottom left corner that said: "ARROW - #809 - 'BIANCA SCOTT'.")

Hailey Arrow Audtion JRS_1
Posted November 11, 2019 by Hailey Graves

Audition Scene 1:
HG: "Haul ass, Amy! Come on, let's go.!" 
Reader (offscreen): "You could've warned me before you punched that guy!" 
HG: "Yeah, probably. (Looking at another person) Hi! You must be his friend. (Back to first person) Think he's into you." 
Reader: "You're gonna pay." 
HG (mimicking fight moves): "Put it on my tab. That was funny."
Reader: "That was stupid." 
HG: "Come on! We had that under control. You're a badass. So am I." 
Reader: "You're reckless." 
HG: "I follow my instincts. And I'm not dead yet. So - must be doing something right." 
Reader: "And what if your luck runs out? And mine with it next time?" 
HG: "Not much of a gambler, are you?" 
Reader: "I don't like unnecessary risks!" 
HG: "No such thing. Life is risk. What we do is risky. And, yeah, sometimes that means getting surprised by 20 guys who want to kill you. And that sucks. But then you realize that you can handle it." 
Reader: "So this is what? Risk training?" 
HG: "You're not surprised if you're always getting surprised. See? Not just reckless. There is a method to my madness." 
Reader: "You're insane." 
HG: "Admit it. You had fun." 
Reader: "A little."
HG: "That's more like it. But even I know when the fun time is over. Run!"  

Audition Scene 2: 
Reader (offscreen): "Hey, baby girl. What a surprise." 
HG: "Hey, Dad. Can we talk for a minute?" 
Reader: "Sure, sure. Come on in." 
HG: "So. How's it going?"
Reader: "Great. Keepin' busy. Staying out of trouble." 
HG: "That's good to hear. How's the factory?" 
Reader: "Oh, I got out of there! That place was a waste of my talent. Want one?" 
HG: "No, thanks. You sure you want one?" 
Reader: "Yeah. That's why I'm having one. What are you doin' here, Bianca?" 
HG: "I was hoping that you could help me with a case I'm working on." 
Reader: "Help you out? How?" 
HG: "There's this new drug that's going around Star City. Nobody knows what it is or where it came from, but it's bad. Five people have already O.D.-ed." 
Reader: "How can I help with that?" 
HG: "I was hoping that you or one of your buddies knew where it came from."
Reader: "Sounds like you're accusing me of something. I'm on the straight and narrow." 
HG: "Dad. We both know that that's not true. You're clearly still drinking. I looked up your medical reports. Two weeks ago you were admitted to Starling General with symptoms of a possible overdose. You help me, we're going to be able to help so many people."
Reader: "Typical Bianca. So judgy." 
HG: "I'm not judging you." 
Reader: "I don't need your pity either."
HG: "You know what? I knew it was a mistake to come here. You want to drink your life away? Fine. Be my guest. I don't want any part of it."

Edited by tv echo
Trisha

Trisha

I wonder if Colin and Colton are just there to shoot interview clips of the retrospective? Although with the S1 bunker and suit, I wouldn’t be surprised if the finale had flashbacks, since they were such a big part of the series. Maybe Oliver “dies” in the crossover, ep 9 is about the birds while everyone thinks he’s dead, and ep 10 is him having flashbacks/visions before being brought back to life?

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