S01.E12: Faith

[DittyDotDot]

When Dean is accidentally electrocuted fighting a monster, he permanently damages his heart. When he's diagnosed as only having a month, at most, to live, Sam searches for a means to save him and finds Roy Le Grange, a faith healer who may actually be the real deal. After Le Grange heals Dean, the brothers discover that Le Grange is using black magic to bind a "Reaper" to do his bidding... and each healing comes with a terrible price of someone else's life.

[DittyDotDot]

I find this episode to easily be one that I'm most conflicted about. It's like the show grew up a bit and tried to reach beyond itself--which I really want to embrace--but then it also has the Sera Gamble preachy factor--with an actual preacher--that weighs it down. I really want to like it more and I do. It's like the good and bad are in exact equilibrium here and I just can't decide if I like it or not...

 

• Good: The monster of the week is actually interesting and I was fascinated and loved the way they dealt with reapers in the first couple of seasons of the show.
• Bad: Preachy preacher's wife, preachy mother with a dying daughter, preachy guy trying to stop people from going to the preacher...I even find Leila preachy and don't really care for her. Way too much preaching.

 

• Good: Sam and Dean are very Sam and Dean . I like and prefer them that way.
• Bad: This episode highlights, once again, what a self-absorbed asshole they have for a father who couldn't even manage a return phone call in the face of his oldest son dying.

 

• Good: Music. I find myself watching the beginning, but my attention wanes sometime after Dean gets healed, but that Don't Fear The Reaper montage draws me back in. A good musical choice can always bring me back--I'm kinda easy that way
• Bad: Some of Sam's dialogue--putting a leash on a great white--makes me bust up laughing each and every time.

 

This could go on for a while so I will just stop now. However, I want to make sure I mention that I think Jensen and Jared both really excel in this episode. Dean's laughing in the face of death and Sam calling bullshit on it and not giving up are both very compelling. I especially adore Dean in the hospital telling Sam he'll haunt his ass if he doesn't take care of his car. And I also especially adore Sam when he tells Dean that he didn't know that saving him would result in someone else dying. And I love the implication that even though Sam is sorry that other guy is dead, he's not sorry that he saved Dean. That's the difference between S1 melodrama and say S9...but I'm digressing.

 

I guess when it's all said and done, I really don't appreciate being preached at, so maybe it won't make my favorites list.

Edited June 20, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[amazinglybored]

Early era SPN where reaching beyond their abilities wasn't cringe worthy. They swung for the fences with this one and it largely worked, a "bit" preachy but overall really good. I liked the MotW and what they were trying to say, it was a good depressing episode and they actually made Dean look like shit. I still connect it a bit to organ donation where people live because someone dies, not that all organ donors are dead but when that does happen. This has been a good reminder of how much of an asshole John was from the beginning. Death means something and there's a price for cheating it,

I think that's actually been a theme they've largely stuck with. Given the angels and the prophecy I've always wondered how this episode fits into that, because Dean couldn't have stayed dead and it also started off him going to hell by him not dying.

 

So, I've discovered Sons of Anarchy (and by that I mean binge watched 6 seasons) and I've been re-watching season 1 of Supernatural. I find the use of music and the effectiveness of it to be in a similar vein, there's clear thought and sometimes a bit of fun with it.

Supernatural doesn't really have that any more and I miss it. They lost an intrinsic part of the show to me.

It's been a real reminder of that.

[7kstar]

I grew up in a Southern Baptist belt.  I find the characters to be real for some very small towns.  I grew up ignoring it so it just doesn't get to me that much.  Actually in some small towns it can be so much worse that I thought they were kind of at the middle of the road.

 

My problem with Supernatural is they always seem to embrace the dark side but don't seem to balance out with the good side or positive side.

 

I think they really goofed with John not making a phone call, even if they just had Sam say, "Dad called but he must have lost the connection and he hasn't called back yet.  I blame the writers on that one. 

 

I really like the last scene with Dean willing to die and not going to keep someone else from having a chance that he feels deserves a better shot.  I like that Sam knew that Dean needed to talk with Layla and her last speech reflects what someone would say that does believe in a Loving God.  Since I do, I don't feel she is too preachy. 

Quote by DittyDotDot

 

However, I want to make sure I mention that I think Jensen and Jared both really excel in this episode. Dean's laughing in the face of death and Sam calling bullshit on it and not giving up are both very compelling. I especially adore Dean in the hospital telling Sam he'll haunt his ass if he doesn't take care of his car. And I also especially adore Sam when he tells Dean that he didn't know that saving him would result in someone else dying. And I love the implication that even though Sam is sorry that other guy is dead, he's not sorry that he saved Dean. That's the difference between S1 melodrama and say S9...but I'm digressing.

Since you wrote this so well, I can't add much but I miss this from the show.  Little brother for the win and not going to let his brother go without a fight.  Also I think he knows that he can count on the same from his brother.  This is the part that made me love Supernatural when I really really HATE Horror.  Did I make it clear I hate Horror?  LOL>  But this puts this on one of the top 5 for me. 

 

I guess the preachy stuff is too real for me to think about it as being overdone. But then again I grew up where they preached if you drink you're going to hell.  I guess I'm going to hell.

Edited June 20, 2014 by 7kstar

[Linderhill]

This episode will always have a place in my heart.  Its the one that made me fall in love with this episode.  I liked the previous episodes but this one nailed it.  I don't compare it to the later episodes because its like a completely different world.  Between the massive changes in the mythology and story arcs, there's no way to actually judge any of the first season episodes by later criteria.  

 

"Faith" will always be one of my favorite episodes.  Preachiness?  of course there's going to be preaching, its a story about faith.  All kinds of faith whether in God or brotherhood or in someone's own worthiness or others beliefs.  

 

And yes, John is definitely up there for worst father of the year.  I sometimes try to fanwank that he was the one to pass on the faith healer information.  

 

Serah Gamble catches a lot of flack for what she did as show runner but I've always thought this was one of her best scrips.  Maybe it was the influence of Raelle Tucker or maybe it was before Serah became a total Sam fan-girl. 

[DittyDotDot]

Preachiness?  of course there's going to be preaching, its a story about faith.  All kinds of faith whether in God or brotherhood or in someone's own worthiness or others beliefs.

 

When I talk about the Sera Gamble preachy factor, I'm really not talking about faith or religion at all. I'm talking about how heavy-handed she tends to be with who is supposed to be right or wrong or good or bad and she has all the characters spout on about it. She hardly ever leaves it up to the audience to decide these things for themselves--it's very after school specialy and not a style I'm particularly drawn to. That's why I prefer her myth heavy episodes to the one-offs and I do think this episode could have been something really great if it wasn't so heavy-handedly written. I'm going to take the rest of my comments to TPTB thread or else everything will have to be under spoiler tags. 

[ElleryAnne]

This is one of the episodes I love from S1.  It hits a lot of good notes for me:

 

1 - Don't Fear The Reaper - one of my favorite songs anyway, and one of my favorite uses of a song in this show.  

 

2 - The Reaper in this episode reminds me of two other death-related characters: A) an episode of Twilight Zone called The Hitchhiker; and B) a haunting character from a movie called Carnival of Souls.  In my head, it's what I picture a reaper looking like, when he's not looking like the ghost of Christmas future.  

 

3 - Layla - she's one my favorite PiP's.

 

4 - Kevin McNulty - this actor eventually turns up in just about every show I've ever watched.  It makes this a good episode for the times we play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, TV version (which, yes, we play in my family).

 

5 - Sam and Dean.  They both nail it emotionally in  this episode.  They're exactly the way I love them.  Especially Sam's determination to save his brother.  We so often get that the other way around, and I love that in this one it's Sam who won't give up on Dean.

 

6 - Dean being seriously injured as a result of a hunt.  It makes sense that

even not counting the assorted deaths

they might sometimes face the risk of real injury.  It's a dangerous line of work.  From a medical standpoint I'm not sure the details work, but the concept of Dean being injured in a way they couldn't patch up themselves in a motel was a good point to touch on.

 

7 - The twist in having the villain be the wife.  I know it's not a major surprise, and it's not particularly original, but I like the way it works here.

 

The only sour note to me is John, or rather the lack of him.  He should have been there.  I'm a fan of the character of John, but that doesn't mean I think he's a great dad, though in cases like this I can only blame the writers for that.  It kills me that they didn't do a better job with him here.  Although again, it gives us Sam's voicemail to him, where he says "Don't worry, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get him better."  Yeah, I really love Sam in this one.

Edited June 25, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[7kstar]

I agree what they did with John stinks.  I don't think John really was an awful dad but he got lost and made some really bad choices.  If he had been such a bad Dad, neither Dean or Sam would care about him.  So I wish they had shown more reasons why Dean felt his Dad was a hero to him and showed him concerned about his boys.

 

I still watch this one over and over.  It holds up over time and not many do from season 1 and Yes I like Sam in this one.  Why can't they do this more often now?

[Frisky]

Re-watching today on TNT I noticed that Hannah the angel was the nurse at the hospital who asked Sam for the insurance information after Dean was electrocuted. Do we know if Hannah was really a nurse before she was possessed by the angel or did they just re-use the same actress? Also the wallpaper in the motel room where Sam called John was the same wallpaper in Sam's old bedroom at the Lawrence house in Home.

[Altered Reality]

Re-watching today on TNT I noticed that Hannah the angel was the nurse at the hospital who asked Sam for the insurance information after Dean was electrocuted. Do we know if Hannah was really a nurse before she was possessed by the angel or did they just re-use the same actress? Also the wallpaper in the motel room where Sam called John was the same wallpaper in Sam's old bedroom at the Lawrence house in Home.

I don't think they've ever said anything about her being a nurse previously, but I suspect it's just a case of re-using the actress.  She was also the mom on the empty playground in "Something Wicked".

[DittyDotDot]

Also the wallpaper in the motel room where Sam called John was the same wallpaper in Sam's old bedroom at the Lawrence house in Home.

 

This is also a very fun game--just like the "what other episode was this actor/actress in" games I've been playing as of late. They reuse a lot of their set decorations and also reuse locations quite a bit. I always enjoy trying to figure out what episode I've seen things previously in. There's a particular starburst clock that seems to show up at least once a season. I find the stranger the item, the more it delights me to see it again.

[Altered Reality]

This is also a very fun game--just like the "what other episode was this actor/actress in" games I've been playing as of late. They reuse a lot of their set decorations and also reuse locations quite a bit. I always enjoy trying to figure out what episode I've seen things previously in. There's a particular starburst clock that seems to show up at least once a season. I find the stranger the item, the more it delights me to see it again.

Okay, now I'm going to have to watch for this too!  Not that I really need another thing to play, along with the "other episode" game, I've been playing spot the Canadian with the guest actors and extras.  But we're sneaky and I don't always catch 'em :D

[DittyDotDot]

I was watching this episode last night...first, I really enjoyed it this time...more than I've ever enjoyed it. Maybe I was just in the right headspace to be preached at.

 

Anyway, I got to wondering why the reaper killed Roy's wife once it was released from the binding spell? It's interesting that the reaper didn't kill Roy as he was the original target, but chooses to take out the person who bound him instead. Really paints reapers in a different light--vengeful rather than just doing their jobs--than they later are depicted.

 

Also, when Sam says "maybe it's time to have a little faith", all I could think of was Houses of the Holy. Maybe I'll re-watch that one too!

[Diane]

And this is where I was done with John, not answering Sams call

[Binns]

I was watching this episode last night...first, I really enjoyed it this time...more than I've ever enjoyed it. Maybe I was just in the right headspace to be preached at.

Anyway, I got to wondering why the reaper killed Roy's wife once it was released from the binding spell? It's interesting that the reaper didn't kill Roy as he was the original target, but chooses to take out the person who bound him instead. Really paints reapers in a different light--vengeful rather than just doing their jobs--than they later are depicted.

Also, when Sam says "maybe it's time to have a little faith", all I could think of was Houses of the Holy. Maybe I'll re-watch that one too!

I thought the vengeful reaper was really interesting too. In my mind they are neutral parties. But it must have been building up some serious resentment.

And this is where I was done with John, not answering Sams call

Agreed. I have no idea why they made that choice.

Things I loved in this episode: Sam and Dean <3 I love their relationship here. I loved Sam's remorse at the jogger dying but at the same time clearly not unhappy that Dean was cured. Good dichotomy. And I loved that Dean heard Sam's explanation, processed it, and moved on rather than dwelling. Loved the music. And the reaper was really well done. It's probably in my top 3 for S1.

[Diane]

I just love this episode, watched last night even though I should have gone to bed instead.  I like the color or lighting of the episode (miss that now, loved the mood of the 1st season) I like the fact that the reaper goes after the wife and not the husband, who was a good man.  He had no idea what she had done.  I liked that Layla had faith in the good times and the bad.  I stand by my earlier comment that John just pisses me off with not answering the phone, I was so done with him by now.

[catrox14]

This rewatch just reminds me that John was the literal worst father.  He could have at least returned a call.  I know folks blame the writers for writing John poorly but  I can't help but think they wanted to make John a negative in the boys life at this point.

I think it was to show them having to survive without John and IMO mostly to show that Dean's loyalty might be misplaced.  And to show that  fathers are not always that great and sometimes fathers are the worst no matter how much we like to think they are not the worst. 

Interesting to me that Dean and Sam  each called John begging for help with the other brother and John ignored both of them.

Fuck you, John Winchester

s11 parallels

Spoiler

 

Chuck. You are like John. Stop trying to retcon your own shitty history.

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Personally, I don't think the show was trying to show anything in particular with John, but just didn't know what to do with John exactly in S1--basically, more New Showitis. They didn't want to kill him off yet, but they also couldn't really have him hunting with them every week because it changes the whole dynamic of the show. Plus, they probably only had Jeffery Dean Morgan for a handful of episodes (he was also doing Grey's Anatomy that year, if I recall properly) and just simply didn't know how to address him being absent. IMO, they've never figured out what to do with recurring characters who can't physically be around in every episode, but should be around anyway.

However, I think it accidentally made John a richer and more layered character in some ways. It really establishes him as a very conflicting character and why Sam and Dean see him as two different people at times. But, for me, it's not until S4 or S5 that I really started to see some of that. It's weird how many things on this show worked simply by accident and how many things they've tried to plan and work out ahead of time that just falls flat for me

Edited June 9, 2016 by DittyDotDot
Because physically and fiscally may sound similar, they have totally different meanings and spellings. DOH!

[catrox14]

They could have just had John check in with a phone call and still had him away to explain why he couldn't be there to adapt  for JDM's scheduling conflicts.

IMO it was a purposeful choice to make John a deadbeat dad because Kripke was all about the family angst and what better angst than the deadbeat dad at that point.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, if the show purposely meant to show John as a deadbeat dad, they shouldn't have went to the pains of telling us how he drug Sam and Dean all around the country with him and trained them to be hunters instead of dumping them at some random friend's house and forgetting about them. Personally, I think he was supposed to be hero-single-parent dad, myself, but didn't think it through how best to handle that.

I'm probably also being colored by a few of the featurettes and commentaries on the S1 and S2 DVDs where Kripke talks about John a bit.

Spoiler

Kripke basically says they killed John only because they couldn't keep him around all the time without changing the show and there really was no good reason why John would stay either. Which says to me they didn't have any real purpose to why John was staying away and ignoring their phone calls other than he simply wasn't in the episode and they hadn't thought it though what that would mean for John as a character.

Like I said, IMO, it was a happy accident because it gave a whole other dimension to John he would've never had otherwise for me.

Edited June 9, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[GirlyGeek]

Had to watch this without the great music (you suck Netflix) :)  But still a great episode.  Man, they managed to make Dean look so bad.  Makes me wish they would bother showing more on-the-job injuries cause you know it happens.  More often than not, though, the boys seem invincible, getting up from things that should have knocked their brains loose or killed them.  Oh well

I love Layla and Julie Benz.  Loved that she and Dean seemed to connect, that Dean felt responsible for her. He didn't run or try to fight off the reaper at the end, either...

I also, like mentioned above, love the way it was discovered that Dean had been saved at the expense of someone else.  Sam didn't know that would happen.  But while Sam was upset that someone had died, he wasn't going to feel bad for saving Dean's life.  I'm glad neither brother held on to that or caused a big fight about it: they heard each other out, knew what's done is done, and moved on.

Yes, John sucks for not answering/being there for Dean.  Yes, I am one of the ones who blame the writers for not knowing what to do with John.  I will never believe it was their intention to make him this awful.  And I will believe that John would have been there if he could have.  Because he loves his sons.  I have to believe that (and believe it was poor planning/bad writing not to explain this in the episodes) because the alternative is to hate John Winchester, and I just can't because

Spoiler

every.flipping.time we see him onscreen after this point he is not a bad guy, he hugs and cries with his kids, tries to protect them, yes he's gruff and not great in the dad dept and has serious issues, but he totally redeems himself in 2x1 and I just can't hate him. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[MysteryGuest]

I'm not sure they were intentionally trying to portray John as such a shitty father, but they certainly managed to do it, at least in some of these episodes.  I'm sure there were scheduling conflicts with JDM, and probably the fact that they didn't want to have to pay him to be in multiple episodes, but the end result was that he really looked like a heartless bastard in a few of these episodes...Home and Faith, specifically.  

This was a great episode, though.  It's one of my go to episodes when I'm in the mood for something from the early days.  

[catrox14]

Kripke was surrounded by veteran directors and writers with Manners, Shiban, Singer et al. I do not believe they wouldn't know how John not being there for Dean's impending death would be perceived as John being an asshole. John being an asshole gave the boys both division point and a something to kind of bond over too.

I'm sure John did love his boys. I'm not saying anything to the contrary. Not all shitty parents are 100% shitty all the time. But if John cannot show up when his son is literally dying and can't communicate why he's not there. Fuck him. Seriously.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I'm not giving John any father of the year awards--he definitely pisses me off throughout S1--I just think it actually makes him more interesting as a character. IMO, John is the first character in a long string of characters who is doing the right thing, just going about it almost entirely wrong. It's kinda a "thing" on this show. I do think John has reasonable reasons for staying away--and his reasons become a bit more reasonable to me later--but they never seem to be reasonable enough to counteract my "What the fuck is important than your son dying" irritation here though. 

All that said, Kripke may have had some seasoned helpers, but that didn't stop him from doing quite a few things he even refers to as mistakes. See Bugs for more on this. So I have no problem with the idea they just didn't see what they were doing with John until after they did it. I've never been one to think the show was half as savvy--then or now--as most the fans give them credit for. IMO, so much of this show was, and still is, accidents. Just some turn out to be happy and, IMO, Kripke probably got the lion's share of the happy ones. 

[SueB]

This is one of my Top 10 Supernatural episodes (through S11). Maybe Top 5.  I so FREAKIN' LOVE this episode.  If I wasn't hooked on Supernatural before, I was gobbling it up now.

Hoodie Dean! - there is sooooooo much to his character here. How he doesn't have faith and yet Roy tells him God has a purpose for him. His guilt over living while Layla doesn't get healed. The way he JUST STOOD THERE for the Reaper to claim him.  That's some dark shit, 'yo.  But his instincts in this episode were very much on display. He may not have The Shining like Sam but he knows something is wrong and he's like a dog with a bone -- he's not giving it up and he gets his answers.

Hopeful Sam - But Sam DOES have faith and thinks God can save his brother.  And then it's crushed a little when he realizes it's actually a case.  

And the Blue Oyster Cult over the Reaper chasing scene is one of my top music cues.  So AMAZING.

Thru S11 adds:

Spoiler

 

HOLY SHIT.  In the S10 200th special, they talk about how Faith was a pivotal episode.  It certainly WAS.  Brings in God, brings in the Reapers. Sam has Faith, Dean is a skeptic.  And THEN... Dean is saved.  Did Chuck do it? Was that Angel influence? WHO moved Roy's heart?  Because I have to believe that Roy got the nudge to pick Dean from Heaven or Chuck... to keep the 'plan' alive.  

Also of interest is this is the FIRST of 200+ times one of the boys is about to die and the other goes to extremes to save them. Now Sam didn't know he was tapping into someones use of Black Magic so his hands are clean... but their success here establishes a series long pattern. 

 

[Diane]

22 minutes ago, SueB said:

This is one of my Top 10 Supernatural episodes (through S11). Maybe Top 5.  I so FREAKIN' LOVE this episode.  If I wasn't hooked on Supernatural before, I was gobbling it up now.

Hoodie Dean! - there is sooooooo much to his character here. How he doesn't have faith and yet Roy tells him God has a purpose for him. His guilt over living while Layla doesn't get healed. The way he JUST STOOD THERE for the Reaper to claim him.  That's some dark shit, 'yo.  But his instincts in this episode were very much on display. He may not have The Shining like Sam but he knows something is wrong and he's like a dog with a bone -- he's not giving it up and he gets his answers.

Hopeful Sam - But Sam DOES have faith and thinks God can save his brother.  And then it's crushed a little when he realizes it's actually a case.  

And the Blue Oyster Cult over the Reaper chasing scene is one of my top music cues.  So AMAZING.

Thru S11 adds:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

HOLY SHIT.  In the S10 200th special, they talk about how Faith was a pivotal episode.  It certainly WAS.  Brings in God, brings in the Reapers. Sam has Faith, Dean is a skeptic.  And THEN... Dean is saved.  Did Chuck do it? Was that Angel influence? WHO moved Roy's heart?  Because I have to believe that Roy got the nudge to pick Dean from Heaven or Chuck... to keep the 'plan' alive.  

Also of interest is this is the FIRST of 200+ times one of the boys is about to die and the other goes to extremes to save them. Now Sam didn't know he was tapping into someones use of Black Magic so his hands are clean... but their success here establishes a series long pattern. 

 

Spoiler

This does start their saving each other at all cost, from here on out it only gets more costly, more desperate.

I love the faith that Sam had and even the doubts that Dean had we have all been there.

[DittyDotDot]

49 minutes ago, SueB said:

This is one of my Top 10 Supernatural episodes (through S11). Maybe Top 5.  I so FREAKIN' LOVE this episode.  If I wasn't hooked on Supernatural before, I was gobbling it up now.

Hoodie Dean! - there is sooooooo much to his character here. How he doesn't have faith and yet Roy tells him God has a purpose for him. His guilt over living while Layla doesn't get healed. The way he JUST STOOD THERE for the Reaper to claim him.  That's some dark shit, 'yo.  But his instincts in this episode were very much on display. He may not have The Shining like Sam but he knows something is wrong and he's like a dog with a bone -- he's not giving it up and he gets his answers.

Hopeful Sam - But Sam DOES have faith and thinks God can save his brother.  And then it's crushed a little when he realizes it's actually a case.  

And the Blue Oyster Cult over the Reaper chasing scene is one of my top music cues.  So AMAZING.

Thru S11 adds:

  Hide contents

 

HOLY SHIT.  In the S10 200th special, they talk about how Faith was a pivotal episode.  It certainly WAS.  Brings in God, brings in the Reapers. Sam has Faith, Dean is a skeptic.  And THEN... Dean is saved.  Did Chuck do it? Was that Angel influence? WHO moved Roy's heart?  Because I have to believe that Roy got the nudge to pick Dean from Heaven or Chuck... to keep the 'plan' alive.  

Also of interest is this is the FIRST of 200+ times one of the boys is about to die and the other goes to extremes to save them. Now Sam didn't know he was tapping into someones use of Black Magic so his hands are clean... but their success here establishes a series long pattern. 

 

Taking to All Seasons thread...whoooosh....

[catrox14]

I've read all the arguments for why John did what he did and I've tried to consider it but truly, I just can't forgive him. This is a bridge too far. 

I don't believe he didn't get Sam's message since I think it's pretty clear he got Dean's message and ignored it as far as Dean knew. Given that John texted the boys in Asylum and called them in Scarecrow, I cannot understand why he didn't text Sam with some kind of danger warning. I do not believe demons have the power to intercept text messages as I mentioned in another thread. John has NO reason other than his own death or dismemberment or being in a ditch somewhere to not AT LEAST get some kind of message to the boys.

He could have had Missouri call the boys or pass a note to an orderly or anyone to let Dean know he couldn't risk it. He could have paid a fucking stranger 5 dollars to use their phone to text them.IMO John's pride and ego and probably not a small amount of shame had as much to do with it as his or their safety. 

John made a choice to not communicate with his dying eldest son who stood by him and hunted with him and even kind of went against Sam in support of John and even defended him even when John probably didn't deserve it.

I love JDM and he plays John very well. But John is a great big bag of dicks and I would punch him in his stupid face on behalf of Dean.

Edited June 12, 2016 by catrox14

[The Companion]

I did not like this one and I can't really explain why. I liked the reaper and I liked the concept of a preacher who doesn't know about the reaper. I just didn't like the way the elements came together for some reason that I can't totally articulate. 

Perhaps it was that the preacher's wife fell into this moustache twirling evil persona. They could have given that scene some additional depth. It might be that I found Layla and her mother boring. There was just something about the dialogue and the characterization that missed the mark for me.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I did not like this one and I can't really explain why. I liked the reaper and I liked the concept of a preacher who doesn't know about the reaper. I just didn't like the way the elements came together for some reason that I can't totally articulate. 

Perhaps it was that the preacher's wife fell into this moustache twirling evil persona. They could have given that scene some additional depth. It might be that I found Layla and her mother boring. There was just something about the dialogue and the characterization that missed the mark for me.

There aren't many consistencies in this fandom, but you'll definitely find yourself in the minority here. This is one of the most popular episodes of the series,  and one that was considered something of a turning point towards what the show could be.  

[The Companion]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There aren't many consistencies in this fandom, but you'll definitely find yourself in the minority here. This is one of the most popular episodes of the series,  and one that was considered something of a turning point towards what the show could be.  

I AM impressed that so many fans are commenting on my thoughts 14 seasons ago. I sorta expected to be talking to myself.

Perhaps, if it is a turning point, I will like it better down the road with some hindsight.

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Perhaps, if it is a turning point, I will like it better down the road with some hindsight.

You're in for a treat when you hit season 2. That's one of the favorites of quite a few of the posters here.

[ahrtee]

I'd say that Faith was a turning point for me in viewing--it was the ep that made me start watching seriously (and fall in love with the characters).  

I do have to say that I've never been a fan of the horror genre (one of my earliest movie memories is sitting on the (sticky) floor of a movie theater at about age 8 because I refused to watch the scary movie my sister insisted we see.)  So this ep is what switched my perception of SPN from horror to character-driven.  I especially loved the reversal of characters here--whereas Dean had, up to this point, been the strong, snarky, always-in-charge one and Sam was still unsure of himself, here we saw Dean being vulnerable and Sam taking charge, and we saw more of the brotherly dynamics that made them work so well together.  (Plus, I'm a sucker for h/c, so seeing wobbly Dean made me very happy.)

I can see from a strictly horror POV it wasn't that great an ep, for all the reasons @The Companion mentioned.  I also thought it felt rather disjointed, like two separate stories:  the first one, how Dean and Sam were dealing with his imminent death, and then, once the physical side was resolved (quickly and absolutely) it returned to the Wicked Preacher's Wife/Layla stories, which weren't nearly as compelling to me.  But it managed to keep the emotional side present, and opened both boys' characters up so that we could see the doubts and fears and insecurities underneath both of them, which is IMO what makes this show different from most others.  

I can't say this ep would be a turning point for everyone, especially if you love horror.  It softened the  focus on the MoW, letting it drive the plot, while focusing attention on the Winchesters and how they dealt with it,  which might not work for everyone.   MMV, of course.  

Edited November 3, 2019 by ahrtee
clarification.

[The Companion]

21 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I'd say that Faith was a turning point for me in viewing--it was the ep that made me start watching seriously (and fall in love with the characters).  

I do have to say that I've never been a fan of the horror genre (one of my earliest movie memories is sitting on the (sticky) floor of a movie theater at about age 8 because I refused to watch the scary movie my sister insisted we see.)  So this ep is what switched my perception of SPN from horror to character-driven.  I especially loved the reversal of characters here--whereas Dean had, up to this point, been the strong, snarky, always-in-charge one and Sam was still unsure of himself, here we saw Dean being vulnerable and Sam taking charge, and we saw more of the brotherly dynamics that made them work so well together.  (Plus, I'm a sucker for h/c, so seeing wobbly Dean made me very happy.)

I can see from a strictly horror POV it wasn't that great an ep, for all the reasons @The Companion mentioned.  I also thought it felt rather disjointed, like two separate stories:  the first one, how Dean and Sam were dealing with his imminent death, and then, once the physical side was resolved (quickly and absolutely) it returned to the Wicked Preacher's Wife/Layla stories, which weren't nearly as compelling to me.  But it managed to keep the emotional side present, and opened both boys' characters up so that we could see the doubts and fears and insecurities underneath both of them, which is IMO what makes this show different from most others.  

I can't say this ep would be a turning point for everyone, especially if you love horror.  It softened the  focus on the MoW, letting it drive the plot, while focusing attention on the Winchesters and how they dealt with it,  which might not work for everyone.   MMV, of course.  

That makes total sense. I did like the brothers' interaction. Honestly, I liked the concept but something about the execution was off for me. It may be the disjointed nature of the story as you mentioned. I think it is also how the secondary characters were painted with such a broad brush. I get that you aren't going to get a lot of character depth when you only have a character for a week, but somehow it bugged me more in this outing. 

I did love how Sam did the research and told Dean the truth even though he knew it would be upsetting. I also liked that they were becoming a team. 

I am looking forward to seeing where it all goes.