S02.E02: Worth It

[sugarbaker design]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:19 PM, sereion said:

I am confused, though-didn't they start the new cocktail drug around that time (late 80's early 9o's)? I remember hearing about it as a teen, it.was hailed as a major breakthrough as it made the virus more manageable, and significantly increased the survival rate. I would hope her Blanca's doctor made her aware of it

If the life-prolonging cocktails were in existence wouldn't the characters, esp the doctors, be talking about it?  I don't think they're available just yet in the timeline.  Maybe a season finale plot development?

[ElenaFR]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

If the life-prolonging cocktails were in existence wouldn't the characters, esp the doctors, be talking about it?  I don't think they're available just yet in the timeline.  Maybe a season finale plot development?

Magic Johnson revealed he was HIV positive in 1991 and he could easily afford the medications. I wonder when the life saving drugs become more affordable.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, ElenaFR said:

Magic Johnson revealed he was HIV positive in 1991 and he could easily afford the medications. I wonder when the life saving drugs become more affordable.

I had always heard that even with the "cocktail" there were a lot of side effects in the early days and medication had to be titrated differently for different people.  

I have always wondered if, in the early days, magic Johnson hid some of his bad days from the public.  I would understand it, but it seems like other people had such struggles.

[ClareWalks]

If AZT was too expensive for Blanca, there's no way she could afford a brand-new cocktail.

ETA: I found this NYT article from 1989 that says AZT cost $8,000 a year and was the world's most expensive prescription drug.

Edited June 21, 2019 by ClareWalks

[qtpye]

On 6/20/2019 at 10:16 AM, eejm said:

Who exactly is contributing to the rent on House Evangelista?  Blanca opened her own nail salon and while that’s awesome, she won’t be making money for a while.  Blanca smartly deterred Angel from prostitution, but she doesn’t seem to have another job unless she has paid modeling gigs now.  (Why didn’t she go back to the peep show?  It wasn’t ideal, but it was safer work and she made good money.)  Damon just started teaching voguing at a community center, so he contributes a bit. Elektra and Ricky are gone.  Does Papi still have his job?

Count me in on saying that Elektra has found her calling as a dominatrix.  I get the feeling her two working worlds may collide at some point, though.  

Is Pray Tell still dating the guy he met at the end of last season?

I know Angel told Stan last year that she wanted more but Elektra is proof that there are rich men who are willing to keep beautiful Trans women very comfortably.  I know that is prostitution but It is much safer than the piers and more lucrative than a peep show. The right powerful man could also help her break into modeling. Evangelista really has no income now that Elektra is gone, Blanca is starting her own business, and Angel is trying to get into modeling. Those Vogue classes Damon teaches are not enough.

[RealReality]

32 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

If AZT was too expensive for Blanca, there's no way she could afford a brand-new cocktail.

ETA: I found this NYT article from 1989 that says AZT cost $8,000 a year and was the world's most expensive prescription drug.

That is so damned upsetting.  

[Angelsmom1009]

On 6/21/2019 at 11:19 AM, RealReality said:

I had always heard that even with the "cocktail" there were a lot of side effects in the early days and medication had to be titrated differently for different people.  

I have always wondered if, in the early days, magic Johnson hid some of his bad days from the public.  I would understand it, but it seems like other people had such struggles.

He did...I watched a documentary he did called “The Announcement” where he talked about his career, finding out about his status and ultimately retiring, nd the aftermath...people and colleagues he had played with and worked with for years stopped speaking to him, other NBA players refused to play with him, etc. and he did talk about trying out several types of medications in the early stages, including “the cocktail” and AZT, and how horrendous the side effects were. I’m sure Magic’s money plays a huge part in how he’s been able to take care of himself all these years, but the fact that he went through a similar situation as someone in a lower socioeconomic level like the Pose community, says a lot about this disease. It doesn’t care how much money you make ☹️

Edited June 22, 2019 by Angelsmom1009
Grammar

[AgentRXS]

1990 is a horrible time to have HIV progress to AIDs. I keep thinking about Freddie Mercury, Pedro Zamora, and other celebrities that died in the early 90s from it. 

If they couldnt beat it with money and resources, Blanca  (or Pray Tell even) IRL wouldn't stand a chance of surviving long enough to have access to today's drugs. 

I wonder if the show will actually go there, with either her or Pray Tell. They both add so much heart to the show, but I know that both actors could act the hell out of someone dying from the disease. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by AgentRXS

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, AgentRXS said:

1990 is horrible time to have HIV progress to AIDs. I keep thinking about Freddie Mercury, Pedro Zamora, and  celebrities that died in the early 90s from it. 

If they couldnt beat it wirh money and resources, Blanca  (or Pray Tell even) IRL wouldn't stand a chance of surviving long enough to have access to today's drugs. 

I wonder if the show will actually go there, with with either her or Pray Tell. They both add so much heart to the show, but I know that both actors could act the hell out of someone dying from the disease. 

It's hard, I love this show for exposing me to a world that is fabulous and fashionable and has campy villains and fun shade throwing.  I also love this show for the more serious undertones.  Angel island and the various casket scenes have been sad....watching pray tells ex boyfriend (costa?) And the former dance student suffer the indignities of the disease was hard enough. 

I'm not sure if I could handle watching pray tell or Blanca go through that, and not get better.

Question - if going from HIV to AIDS is based mostly on lab results can a person ever go back if they have aggressive treatment?  Can you never get your t-cell count up enough to qualify as having HIV instead of AIDS?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One minor thing that annoyed me was that during the Romeo & Juliet walk, Angel said, "Where art thou, Romeo?" The actual line is "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" (and "wherefore" means "why" so this misquote changes the meaning of the line completely).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips:

Damon's welcome home

Squatters rights

[Blakeston]

A few reactions to this episode:

1. Are we supposed to know who Derek was?

2. Was Elektra accepting coke from her client? Or was she just allowing him to use it? (Also, that pretty, white, dark-haired, toned client was clearly from Ryan Murphy Central Casting - ie, "Guys Ryan Murphy Desperately Wants to Bang.")

3. I'm sick of them acting like Blanca is so easily clocked. It's as if the makers of the show are saying, "Look, just pretend that everyone can tell she's trans. We insisted on casting someone feminine-looking and conventionally pretty, because it's TV, so just make believe, okay?"

4. Some of the language felt anachronistic. No one would be saying "Wintour is coming" before Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire. And then Angel had a line about acknowledging her privilege. People didn't throw around the term "privilege" in 1990 to the same extent that woke people do today. She would have been a lot more likely to just say "I know I'm lucky."

[ClareWalks]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

3. I'm sick of them acting like Blanca is so easily clocked. It's as if the makers of the show are saying, "Look, just pretend that everyone can tell she's trans. We insisted on casting someone feminine-looking and conventionally pretty, because it's TV, so just make believe, okay?"

I so agree. It's like in those 90s teen movies when they'd put the gorgeous actress in a pair of glasses and be like "SEE HOW HIDEOUS SHE IS?!"

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

I so agree. It's like in those 90s teen movies when they'd put the gorgeous actress in a pair of glasses and be like "SEE HOW HIDEOUS SHE IS?!"

She is so nerdy, the captain of the football team will NEVER ask her to the prom!  Until she tutors him (because everyone who wears glasses is smart) and he realizes he likes her for her personality.  

And then BOOM! she takes off her glasses and we realize she is a total knockout!  Though maybe slightly less intelligent because she isn't wearing glasses.

But yes, I thought maybe I was the only one who thought Blanca looked feminine and pretty most of the time.  Even in her early drag days, the worst they could do was a short wig.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

A few reactions to this episode:

1. Are we supposed to know who Derek was?

2. Was Elektra accepting coke from her client? Or was she just allowing him to use it? (Also, that pretty, white, dark-haired, toned client was clearly from Ryan Murphy Central Casting - ie, "Guys Ryan Murphy Desperately Wants to Bang.")

3. I'm sick of them acting like Blanca is so easily clocked. It's as if the makers of the show are saying, "Look, just pretend that everyone can tell she's trans. We insisted on casting someone feminine-looking and conventionally pretty, because it's TV, so just make believe, okay?"

4. Some of the language felt anachronistic. No one would be saying "Wintour is coming" before Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire. And then Angel had a line about acknowledging her privilege. People didn't throw around the term "privilege" in 1990 to the same extent that woke people do today. She would have been a lot more likely to just say "I know I'm lucky."

I agree.  Sometimes I forget details from one season to another, but I just watched season 1 and I don't remember Derrick.  I wanted to be equally outraged, but it was hard when I didn't know him at all.  I was still mad at the boys though.

I don't think Elektra was accepting coke/uppers from her client.  Just letting him use them so HE could go all night and pay her her hourly rate.  I suspect Elektra could beat the hell out of a guy for hours without so much as an extra cup of coffee!

Also, yeah, I let the "wintour is coming" line slide because it was delivered with such panache, but I also didn't think it was a thing in the 90s.

[DrSparkles]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:09 PM, RealReality said:

It's hard, I love this show for exposing me to a world that is fabulous and fashionable and has campy villains and fun shade throwing.  I also love this show for the more serious undertones.  Angel island and the various casket scenes have been sad....watching pray tells ex boyfriend (costa?) And the former dance student suffer the indignities of the disease was hard enough. 

I'm not sure if I could handle watching pray tell or Blanca go through that, and not get better.

Question - if going from HIV to AIDS is based mostly on lab results can a person ever go back if they have aggressive treatment?  Can you never get your t-cell count up enough to qualify as having HIV instead of AIDS?

I don't know if this has changed, but used to be once you had an AIDS dx, it was permanent. The positive side of that is that a person qualifies for disability & other resources. You can certainly get those T cells back up nowadays so that your health is better.

USCF info: https://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/aids/diagnosis.html

Mayo clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hiv-aids/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20373531

[AgentRXS]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:50 AM, Blakeston said:

3. I'm sick of them acting like Blanca is so easily clocked. It's as if the makers of the show are saying, "Look, just pretend that everyone can tell she's trans. We insisted on casting someone feminine-looking and conventionally pretty, because it's TV, so just make believe, okay?"

This! I was watching documentaries "The Life and Death of Marsha P. Johnson" and "Wig" this weekend---both contained archival footage of drag queens and trans women from the 70s-'90s. There is no way Blanca would have been clocked compared to some that I saw---some of the trans women were really rough around the edges without makeup. MJ, Indya, and the other trans actresses clearly have had hormone treatments that their characters and real life trans women in their socioeconomic status likely wouldn't have been able to afford at that time. The show looks silly when they try convince us otherwise.

Also Marsha P. Johnson was found dead off the Christopher St pier in '92, trans women of color are still being killed or found dead and police are doing little to nothing to investigate it. I think the show would be remiss if they don't address that in some way, shape, or form.

Edited June 25, 2019 by AgentRXS

[Ohwell]

What does "clocked" mean?

[ClareWalks]

29 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

What does "clocked" mean?

"Clocked" means you've been called out or found out. Like, "she clocked my wig" means "she saw that my wig was askew." Or "he can't clock me" means "I am so convincing and flawless that nobody can say anything about it."

[Ohwell]

Ok, thanks.

[RealReality]

11 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

This! I was watching documentaries "The Life and Death of Marsha P. Johnson" and "Wig" this weekend---both contained archival footage of drag queens and trans women from the 70s-'90s. There is no way Blanca would have been clocked compared to some that I saw---some of the trans women were really rough around the edges without makeup. MJ, Indya, and the other trans actresses clearly have had hormone treatments that their characters and real life trans women in their socioeconomic status likely wouldn't have been able to afford at that time. The show looks silly when they try convince us otherwise.

Also Marsha P. Johnson was found dead off the Christopher St pier in '92, trans women of color are still being killed or found dead and police are doing little to nothing to investigate it. I think the show would be remiss if they don't address that in some way, shape, or form.

I think this would be an interesting storyline, maybe they have this in the pipeline for season three.

[aradia22]

LOVE that they made Elektra a dominatrix. Though the pulled back hair is way too severe on her.

Another storyline that doesn't make sense. We've seen Blanca with good, or at least decent style. What about her blazers? What about the stuff Pray Tell whips up for her? Now suddenly all she's got is oversized tees and bleached jeans?

Look, I love Patti but she seemed so bored with that heavy-handed dialogue. I hope nothing bad happens from Blanca not having a contract and just handing over all that cash.

When Ricky comes back he asks about the hearts. What hearts? Did someone forget to dress the set?

Elektra constantly ruining people's dinners is boring. I guess Elektra starting a brand new house means new characters but things are already getting a bit bloated. I don't even know the names of everyone in Ferocity. This was a Glee problem...

What is with these dumb skits? Marie Antoinette last week? Romeo and Juliet this week? 

I did like the Cinderella dress reveal. 

Where the hell did Elektra pull that knife from? Amazing. I didn't like the new house. Anna Wintour? She only became editor in chief in 1988. It's 1990. How is she legendary? And "Wintour is coming?" None of this makes sense for 1990. It only makes sense for 2019 when Anna is handing out invitations to the Met Gala.

This feels like a dumb fight for Blanca. They gave her back her money. Why doesn't she rent somewhere else? She's sinking all this money into a nail salon. Furniture, salon chairs, plumbing, etc. And with no guarantee she'll win. 

Thud. Blanca's monologue was rough. She's not a good enough actress to deliver those obvious clunkers. Thank God for Papi at the end.

Ricky is so sweet now. Where is Damon's irrational jealousy coming from? Why is he moving out? Did the actor get another job? Otherwise, this makes no sense.

Is Papi going to fall for Angel? What's happening there?

[aradia22]

Quote

Yeah- I think we as the audience see Blanca now, 1990 when she’s 32(I think she said she was 30 in season 1) and forget that she wasn’t able to transition until she left home at 18 so she went through male puberty and had to deal with all that as an adult. Again, as I said above she’s got every right to be scared by those experiences, the bigots are dangerous. If some racist bigoted asshole called the cops and she was arrested, would she the right ID? It would be a shit show. Poor thing. But she is gorgeous!

I think it's more that in the universe of this show we're just supposed to accept that Elektra passes despite being maybe a foot taller than the average woman and Blanca looks masculine even though the actress does not. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief because it means they cast actual trans actresses but they need to be more consistent about who is clock-able. I feel like they just do it to advance a storyline right now and it calls more attention to it. 

[latincoffee]

awww that moment when Blanca disclosed her HIV status to the haus 😞 Papi almost made me cry. 

Ricky did well in putting himself as priority! Good for him! 

Blanca has lots going on and she is a true soldier...she's got this and she has the support of her kids in the haus, Pray Tell and the nurse. Awesomeness!!

[latincoffee]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:10 PM, mtlchick said:

(Elecktra yanks the table cloth) me “didn’t she do that last week?” Elecktra “it’s my signature move.” Me “carry on.”

Elecktra becoming a dominatrix is a fitting career move. At least she got her closet with her designers in order. 

Kudos to Blanca for standing up to Ms Patti Lupone (!) but I was screaming at the tv “get this in writing!” Even though I knew that was one anvil that was going to drop. 

Elektra cracks me up. I was like don't invite her to dinner and piss her off because the table will be turned upside down or the table cloth will be yanked ☺️