S20.E21: Exchange

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Oh and of course Olivia speaks Italian. I give her a pass on Spanish because she’s a NYC cop and it certainly comes in handy. But where and when did she become fluent in Italian?

Are they trying to make Olivia Benson and Mariska Hargitay one person. What ever attributes that Hargitay has, apparently Benson has them also. I guess they will write in a couple of international episodes, so they can give Benson a chance to speak Hungarian and French.

[SarahPrtr]

On 4/28/2019 at 5:18 AM, wknt3 said:

I'm sure that Mariska would tell us that all crimes matter and they all get solved off camera. You just need to figure out how you want to fanwank it:

Oh.My.God. Fanwank.  Fanwank!!!  You are sooo funny!!!!!!!!!!!!  I laughed so hard!  In that very sudden burst of screechy laughter!

(Glad that you're only reading about me doing that, and not actually hear me screechy-laugh).

21 hours ago, Fellaway said:

But, it's a real shame when one dies.  "She was so pretty..."

So... it's not a shame when a non-pretty girl dies?

Effing shits me when they Go There.  I won't even get started on that.

11 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Are they trying to make Olivia Benson and Mariska Hargitay one person. What ever attributes that Hargitay has, apparently Benson has them also. I guess they will write in a couple of international episodes, so they can give Benson a chance to speak Hungarian and French.

I'm actually surprised that they haven't done that yet.  They had Connie Nielsen speak French in one of the episodes, but mostly just some Spanish with Mariska.

.

[Fellaway]

12 hours ago, dttruman said:

Will the writers ever address this so obvious and apparent  improper and unbecoming behavior? I wonder if they are setting her up for a two part episode where a hearing is called to question violations of the code of conduct for police officers?

I doubt we'd see it this season, what I hope is the last season of Ever-Abiding Love and Devotion and (especially) Non-Criticism of Our Saint and Martyr Olivia Benson.  I could see Leight going there, though.  I am really interested to see what he's going to do with the current state of the show, especially since some of the things he was really into are gone.  Of course, I'd be just as happy if he decided to Bobby Ewing the last three seasons and go right back to where we left off in 17.  It won't happen, but I'd love it.

11 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Oh and of course Olivia speaks Italian. I give her a pass on Spanish because she’s a NYC cop and it certainly comes in handy. But where and when did she become fluent in Italian?

She must have been studying languages in her non-existent free time.  I was watching a Season 2 or 3 ep the other day, and they had a suspect the uni said needed a translator.  Benson said she spoke French, was okay in another language though I forget which (it wasn't Italian), and could Mirandize in a handful of others.  So she's been working hard on those languages!  RME.  Turns out what they needed was a sign language interpreter.  Alas, that was not in Benson's bag of tricks.  Then!  She probably knows it now.  Oy.

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

Turns out what they needed was a sign language interpreter.  Alas, that was not in Benson's bag of tricks.

No, Goren over on CI knew that part, at least a little. LOL!  To his credit, he only knew some and a translator in the episode was still necessary.

[BrianJ1962]

17 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

No, Goren over on CI knew that part, at least a little. LOL!  To his credit, he only knew some and a translator in the episode was still necessary.

Goren/Eames vs Benson/Stabler who you got? I got Goren and Eames 

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, BrianJ1962 said:

Goren/Eames vs Benson/Stabler who you got? I got Goren and Eames 

Definitely prefer Goren/Eames. (Sorry, SVU peeps!) But to bring it back to this show, at least Goren had his ass handed to him a few times. Still waiting for Benson to be humbled.

[BrianJ1962]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Definitely prefer Goren/Eames. (Sorry, SVU peeps!) But to bring it back to this show, at least Goren had his ass handed to him a few times. Still waiting for Benson to be humbled.

Saint/Mother Benson of NYC

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Definitely prefer Goren/Eames. (Sorry, SVU peeps!) But to bring it back to this show, at least Goren had his ass handed to him a few times. Still waiting for Benson to be humbled.

Here is one for you. What would happen to CI, if they decided to use the "All Powerful" Benson format?

I wonder if this question should be posted in the CI discussion or the Saint Olivia thread?

[SunnyBeBe]

Is there any way that someone else could get control of the show or even an episode?

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, dttruman said:

Here is one for you. What would happen to CI, if they decided to use the "All Powerful" Benson format?

I wonder if this question should be posted in the CI discussion or the Saint Olivia thread?

I'm rather surprised that never happened (but am grateful) since CI and SVU had Warren Leight and many of the same writers in common.  Yet, unlike with SVU, he never seemed as popular with CI fans when he took over for Rene Balcer. (His very first episode as the new EP found Eames kidnapped and mentally and physically tortured - no doubt  a prototype for what would repeatedly befall Benson. At least she saved herself.  But that was the only time over there,  thankfully.)

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yet, unlike with SVU, he never seemed as popular with CI fans when he took over for Rene Balcer. (His very first episode as the new EP found Eames kidnapped and mentally and physically tortured - no doubt  a prototype for what would repeatedly befall Benson. At least she saved herself.  But that was the only time over there,  thankfully.)

So who is more responsible for involving the personal lives of the detectives, Leight or Hargitay? From my prospective it looks as if Leight experiments with one episode to see how it works with viewers, i.e. with Eames. But it looks like when Hargitay became an executive producer, she decided to run with the idea and hasn't stopped.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

So who is more responsible for involving the personal lives of the detectives, Leight or Hargitay? From my prospective it looks as if Leight experiments with one episode to see how it works with viewers, i.e. with Eames. But it looks like when Hargitay became an executive producer, she decided to run with the idea and hasn't stopped.

Hmm, I'd say a little from column A, a little from column B, since Goren's family issues went into overdrive under Leight with his schizophrenic mother (introduced in S6 when Leight started and played by Rita Moreno, though only spoken of in the Balcer era) diagnosed with terminal cancer, finding out his biological father (Roy Scheider) was a serial killer on death row, and his drug-addict brother (Tony Goldwyn) turning up and later ending up dead by Goren's own mentor from his Army days (with help from Goren's nemesis, Nicole Wallace). I bunched it all together to make it more evident.

So clearly Leight loved turmoil, physical and otherwise. But on SVU, I guess Mariska Hargitay liked Leight's formula, since the personal stuff is still very much in the forefront, especially with Rollins and Benson. I can only imagine how much worse (is that even possible?) it will be with both Hargitay and Leight having deep fondness for personal traumas.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm, I'd say a little from column A, a little from column B, since Goren's family issues went into overdrive under Leight with his schizophrenic mother (introduced in S6 when Leight started and played by Rita Moreno, though only spoken of in the Balcer era) diagnosed with terminal cancer, finding out his biological father (Roy Scheider) was a serial killer on death row, and his drug-addict brother (Tony Goldwyn) turning up and later ending up dead by Goren's own mentor from his Army days (with help from Goren's nemesis, Nicole Wallace). I bunched it all together to make it more evident.

Yes, I remember the conflict Goren went through with his problems, but those were few and far between. CI episodes also included social and political issues, but they were written in so objectively well they enhanced the story line. That's what separates CI, from today's SVU.

Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong point of view. Maybe it's SVU that wants to change their format to CI's? Maybe Haritay wants SVU to be about two detectives (Benson & Rollins) like you mentioned earlier and Carisi and Fin are slowly phased out?

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is there any way that someone else could get control of the show or even an episode?

I think only Wolf could, but as long as there is a steady stream of money coming in, he doesn't care.

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm rather surprised that never happened (but am grateful) since CI and SVU had Warren Leight and many of the same writers in common.  Yet, unlike with SVU, he never seemed as popular with CI fans when he took over for Rene Balcer.

Much like comedy, timing is everything when it comes to being a popular showrunner. On CI he was following a great run and coming in when everything was working against him,with all the backstage issues we've discussed before on that forum. On SVU he was taking over after Baer had gone off the rails completely and proceeded what is IMHO the worst season of any L&O ever and was in a situation where he clearly had the backing of TPTB.

Quote

(His very first episode as the new EP found Eames kidnapped and mentally and physically tortured - no doubt  a prototype for what would repeatedly befall Benson. At least she saved herself.  But that was the only time over there,  thankfully.) 

Yeah his fondness for that plot is not something I'd put in the plus column. Fortunately KE is not MH and doesn't think endless suffering is the apotheosis of drama.

 

4 hours ago, dttruman said:

So who is more responsible for involving the personal lives of the detectives, Leight or Hargitay? From my prospective it looks as if Leight experiments with one episode to see how it works with viewers, i.e. with Eames. But it looks like when Hargitay became an executive producer, she decided to run with the idea and hasn't stopped.

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm, I'd say a little from column A, a little from column B, since Goren's family issues went into overdrive under Leight with his schizophrenic mother (introduced in S6 when Leight started and played by Rita Moreno, though only spoken of in the Balcer era) diagnosed with terminal cancer, finding out his biological father (Roy Scheider) was a serial killer on death row, and his drug-addict brother (Tony Goldwyn) turning up and later ending up dead by Goren's own mentor from his Army days (with help from Goren's nemesis, Nicole Wallace). I bunched it all together to make it more evident.

So clearly Leight loved turmoil, physical and otherwise. But on SVU, I guess Mariska Hargitay liked Leight's formula, since the personal stuff is still very much in the forefront, especially with Rollins and Benson. I can only imagine how much worse (is that even possible?) it will be with both Hargitay and Leight having deep fondness for personal traumas.

The personal lives and families of the detectives has always been a bigger part of SVU than other shows, at least for the leads. Remember how we hated the plots about Stabler's daughters back in the day? I do think that Leight deserves some blame and it's good to remember that, especially with all the posts here that seem excessively optimistic that he can fix things that he was involved in breaking, but that it needs to be shared more widely including with NBC, DIck Wolf, and the writers. I'm not expecting things to get better, but I don't think things will get much worse either, but who knows? Maybe the season premiere will be a multi-part arc where Simon returns to kidnap and abuse Noah with Rollins' sister?

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, dttruman said:

Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong point of view. Maybe it's SVU that wants to change their format to CI's? Maybe Haritay wants SVU to be about two detectives (Benson & Rollins) like you mentioned earlier and Carisi and Fin are slowly phased out?

No one knows but Hargitay and now Leight, but I doubt that. I really don't think the show would ditch Ice T. I think the show just forgets it is supposedly an ensemble. In the case of CI, even Dick Wolf admitted in an interview that was basically VDO's show with others supporting. SVU was always an ensemble until Chris Meloni left. Then it became Olivia Benson: Super Detective and the Others in Her Orbit.

[dttruman]

19 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Maybe the season premiere will be a multi-part arc where Simon returns to kidnap and abuse Noah with Rollins' sister?

Would Dick Wolf's tightwad budget allow for such a possibly good beginning? IMO, they need to open up the pocket book more and not just for certain episodes, but for all of them. Granted the show has it's problem with Benson, but the cheapness of everything else is so apparent.

Edited April 29, 2019 by dttruman

[wknt3]

10 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong point of view. Maybe it's SVU that wants to change their format to CI's? Maybe Haritay wants SVU to be about two detectives (Benson & Rollins) like you mentioned earlier and Carisi and Fin are slowly phased out?

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

No one knows but Hargitay and now Leight, but I doubt that. I really don't think the show would ditch Ice T. I think the show just forgets it is supposedly an ensemble. In the case of CI, even Dick Wolf admitted in an interview that was basically VDO's show with others supporting. SVU was always an ensemble until Chris Meloni left. Then it became Olivia Benson: Super Detective and the Others in Her Orbit.

Ice-T is too popular and too much a part of the SVU brand (there's a reason he was the one in the SNL sketch with MH). He isn't going anywhere unless he develops serious health issues like Belzer although he might get even more episodes off. I don't see Carisi going anywhere either since PS is still on his first contract, can run, and seems to be content to become part of the Dick Wolf Players and move on to FBI: Chicago Field Office when the show is finally blessedly cancelled. I don't think there is any sort of overarching plan, just a series of responses to two imperatives - Cut Costs, and Keep Mariska Paid and Happy. They would be more likely to replace Giddish with somebody younger and cheaper for Benson to mentor and show the One True Way. Of course if's most likely that the show ends in a year or two anyways with the same core 4.

[wknt3]

11 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Would Dick Wolf's tightwad budget allow for such a possibly good beginning? IMO, they need to open up the pocket book more and not just for certain episodes, but for all of them. Granted the show has it's problem with Benson, but the cheapness of everything else is so apparent.

 "Possibly good beginning"???? A multi-part Benoah arc with Rollins' sister and additional Benson family drama??? Who are you and what have you done with @dttruman? Have the Russian hackers taken over Primetimer too?

[Xeliou66]

Warren Leight wrecked CI while he revived SVU, it’s bizarre. With SVU he brought realism back to the show after the ridiculous storylines of seasons 10-12, the stories became much more compelling with him at the helm, and plus he gave us Barba and Carisi. While he does like personal storylines too much, SVU has always had too much personal soapy drama. On the other hand he destroyed CI by making it into a soap opera with weaker plots when it was a brilliant show up unity he took over and nothing needed to be changed. I hope he will bring some fresh air to SVU but I’m afraid all we will get is more Benson and Rollins personal stories.

[SarahPrtr]

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Maybe the season premiere will be a multi-part arc where Simon returns to kidnap and abuse Noah with Rollins' sister?

Oh no, for the love of god, NOOO!!!  I like our television and don't want to break it by throwing something at it!!!

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

somebody younger and cheaper for Benson to mentor and show the One True Way. Of course if's most likely that the show ends in a year or two anyways with the same core 4.

Like how you said that like it's a cult.  It kind of has become one, with Olivia High And Mighty.  Her way, or the high way.  Don't forget, she also knows how to do the job of a lawyer AND a psychiatrist. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Warren Leight wrecked CI while he revived SVU, it’s bizarre. With SVU he brought realism back to the show after the ridiculous storylines of seasons 10-12, the stories became much more compelling with him at the helm, and plus he gave us Barba and Carisi. While he does like personal storylines too much, SVU has always had too much personal soapy drama. On the other hand he destroyed CI by making it into a soap opera with weaker plots when it was a brilliant show up unity he took over and nothing needed to be changed. I hope he will bring some fresh air to SVU but I’m afraid all we will get is more Benson and Rollins personal stories.

At least S10 was calmer, though. Some new blood (Chris Brancato) as EP helped send CI out on a high note. One can only hope the same fate awaits SVU, but with recycling old EPs, I'm not as hopeful there. (Before CI, I don't think Brancato was part of Dick Wolf's usual stable of names. I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing his name before. All I read was he was involved in that one-season critically-lauded NBC show UC: Undercover, waaaaay back in 2000 or 2001.)

Maybe some new blood wouldn't be amiss for the SVU gang. I'd think fresh eyes could conjure fresh perspectives and ideas, but what the hell do I know?

[12catcrazy]

I couldn't keep rolling my eyes while watching this episode.  And frankly, the only reason I still watch this train-wreck of a cop show is because my SO still enjoys it for some  reason and he'll sit through Fosse/Verdon for me, so I've got to return the favor.  

The girls' lack of accents didn't bother me as much as their - stupidity, or whatever you want to call it.  And they could both be brainwashed into thinking their father was an abuser and think that Rich, White, Dude "loved them".  WTF???  Were these girls given frontal lobotomies somewhere along the way?   And I love how the camera just lingered on the supposed 15 year old's bra and panty clad body at the start of the show.    Melodramatic, hypocritical, crap.

Just before watching this show, we had finished watching the latest episode of "Unforgotten" on PBS.   Now that's what I call a show about police work and caring about victims.  Well acted, well written, and you don't feel your brain cells oozing out of your head while watching it.  

[zillabreeze]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Just before watching this show, we had finished watching the latest episode of "Unforgotten" on PBS.   Now that's what I call a show about police work and caring about victims.  Well acted, well written, and you don't feel your brain cells oozing out of your head while watching it.  

I'm a big fan of Brit crime shows, too!  So smart and believable.  Watch all of the previous "Unforgottens" if you haven't already! 

Put Saint Mariska up against Nicola Walker and it makes SVU almost an SNL skit!

I forgot to pack a hairbrush last time I went to NYC.  I quickly found a selection at the corner store ...Why, oh why can neither Rollins or St. O. find a hairbrush or comb????

As long as I'm being nitpicky, I've never known or seen a real life female cop with their hair hanging down all into the evidence!   TeeVee detectives do it all the time!

[SarahPrtr]

55 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

As long as I'm being nitpicky, I've never known or seen a real life female cop with their hair hanging down all into the evidence!   TeeVee detectives do it all the time!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's so impractical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I remember in the earlier seasons of Castle, Detective Beckett used to have short hair and then as the seasons went on, it was almost down to her waist and she never tied it back.  AND wore crazy 6-inch heels!!!!!!!!  You're a police officer!!!!!  You can't run and chase perps in those ridiculous shoes!!!  It STOPS you from doing your JOB properly.

[zillabreeze]

5 minutes ago, SarahPrtr said:

It STOPS you from doing your JOB properly.

Apparently, we don't know how to do heels!  Pretty detectives in stripper shoes tackle 20 year old sneaker wearing perps in primetime every week.

We must squeal together when there is a sterile lab/morgue scene and here comes the "professional" with her hair flying all around.

[dttruman]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:32 PM, wknt3 said:

 "Possibly good beginning"???? A multi-part Benoah arc with Rollins' sister and additional Benson family drama??? Who are you and what have you done with @dttruman? Have the Russian hackers taken over Primetimer too?

Mariska Hargitay is a wonderful person who strives to put on a tv show of high quality, that spares no expense in research, character development, and expressing objective views concerning social and political issues. She will sacrifice the Benson character camera time and dialogue each week for the betterment of other cast members and .. and..an.. a.... Oh my God, what have I done!!!!

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/26/2019 at 7:44 PM, MaryHedwig said:

Because he was a red herring and not what the show was focused on. The cab driver knew his place and did his duty.

Are we to assume that the wife will serve time for this?

The show got me. At first I thought the last scene with Rollins and Carisi was the end. Then we got one more chung-chung and I was expecting some big twist about how the wife was the perverted mastermind behind the whole thing. But I should have known that it would be one more scene about how awesome Benson is.

Also all the Italian started to annoy me. The Italian on the moat recent episode of Brooklyn 99 was more interesting, and that was just Andy Sandberg saying Mama Maglione!.

[sockii]

On 4/25/2019 at 11:55 PM, rhys said:

I had to laugh at everyone pronouncing the word Italy with an Italian accent but no other words. Crikey that was dumb.

It reminded me of watching a Giada de Laurentiis cooking show. Speaks with nothing but an American accent except when she's got to show off her Italian roots so she's making SpaghEETTEE with PAHN chet TA and MOE ZAH RRRRE LLAH.

[AzraeltheCat]

On 4/28/2019 at 5:31 PM, dttruman said:

Oh and of course Olivia speaks Italian. I give her a pass on Spanish because she’s a NYC cop and it certainly comes in handy. But where and when did she become fluent in Italian?

Actually, I remember Olivia speaking Italian a few times before this.  Back right before or right after Elliott left, they had the Italian diplomat case [he assaulted a hotel maid, I think?] and I'm pretty sure she spoke Italian in that one. There's another one, but I can't quite remember it now, even though I just saw it in reruns in the past couple weeks.  I don't mind the languages, but the whispering irritates!  And I think Carisi should be in every episode, as many scenes as possible, love him. 

[jabRI]

What I don't get is this girl is going to grown men sex parties, getting on while the wife watches, and she freaks out at a poker game with friends? just seems odd, but i know abused women are entitled to freak out just like everyone else, just struck me as odd