S05.E15: A Wise Father That Knows His Own Child

[Dee]

Quote

As the Feds close in on Empire, Jeff Kingsley seeks the truth about what really happened between Lucious and Tracy Kingsley. Meanwhile, Teri and the Lyons pray for Andre's health, and Cookie faces the truth about her relationship with Damon Cross. Jamal and Kai reach an understanding, while Hakeem attempts to figure out where he stands among his relationships.

[SuzieQ]

When Lucious is talking to Kinglsey and he says "Your mom went from cute Tracy to crackhead Tracy to strawberry Tracy,  What does strawberry Tracy mean?  Hope I'm not embarrassing myself, LOL!

[Rebky]

Someone help me out.  What did Luscious mean when he said something like, "Tracy went from sweet Tracy to Strawberry Tracy"??

ETA: Great minds think alike SuzieQ!!!! 😄

Edited April 18, 2019 by Rebky

[Dee]

Strawberry means to become a pass-a-round.

[SuzieQ]

1 minute ago, Dee said:

Strawberry means to become a pass-a-round.

Thank you! I was very confused.

[Jeopardy15]

So much to unpack in this episode. 

• Cookie—she is really acting stupid. Confiding in the same man she almost had sex with. Really, girl!?!? This is going to blow up in her face and may be the reason some Lyon is in the casket. 
• Lucious—reunite with one son to “save” another one. Okay. Not sure that’s how God works, but okay. That dinner scene was awkward. 
• Andre—he will have a miraculous recovery (I hope). I wonder if Terri will lead him back to God and church?
• Jamal—can he and Kai have their “happily ever after” and leave forever so I don’t have to see Kai’s whinny ass ever again? Please and thank you. 
• Hakeem—just ugh! 
• FBI agent lady—Lucious is using the tour to ship drugs??? She has no real case against Lucious, because that is grasping at straws. Just dumb!
• Cute Tracey—>Crackhead Tracey—>Strawberry Tracey (thanks for explaining that Dee)—>”Lying my ass off to my son so save face”  Tracey. She can leave my screen at any time. Can she be in the casket? 

[AsiagoSauce]

 Why the hell does Cookie keep going to the man she almost slept with? The guy could become a dangerous enemy by tomorrow and she's eating dinner with him?

I'm starting to wonder if Kingsley's going to end up in the coffin after having the touching scene with Lucious this ep.

Also, what's with the look Tiana kept giving Devon? Why do the writers insist on making her somehow involved every guy at Empire?

Maya's starting to piss me off. She becoming such a shit starter and over Blake of all people. She should know better than to mess with the son and son's baby mama of her boss.

[Athena5217]

1 hour ago, Jeopardy15 said:

Cute Tracey—>Crackhead Tracey—>Strawberry Tracey (thanks for explaining that Dee)—>”Lying my ass off to my son so save face”  Tracey. She can leave my screen at any time. Can she be in the casket? 

Probably won’t happen, but I love the idea.

Has Kingsley just realized that his mother the drug addict lied to him? Addicts lie. Anyone who had ever watched a “very special episode” of a sitcom with an addiction storyline knows this. Yet Kingsley, the child of an addict, does not? Puleez. Most unbelievable plot point since whatever happened last episode.

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

Probably won’t happen, but I love the idea.

Has Kingsley just realized that his mother the drug addict lied to him? Addicts lie. Anyone who had ever watched a “very special episode” of a sitcom with an addiction storyline knows this. Yet Kingsley, the child of an addict, does not? Puleez. Most unbelievable plot point since whatever happened last episode.

"How can you tell a junkie is lying? Her lips are moving." What happened to Tracy is unfortunate but it's not Lucious's fault. 

11 hours ago, AsiagoSauce said:

 Why the hell does Cookie keep going to the man she almost slept with? The guy could become a dangerous enemy by tomorrow and she's eating dinner with him?

I'm starting to wonder if Kingsley's going to end up in the coffin after having the touching scene with Lucious this ep.

Also, what's with the look Tiana kept giving Devon? Why do the writers insist on making her somehow involved every guy at Empire?

Maya's starting to piss me off. She becoming such a shit starter and over Blake of all people. She should know better than to mess with the son and son's baby mama of her boss.

And I mean, those aren't friendly dinners. Those are dates. Dude lit candles. If they're just friends, they can meet in public and talk. Take walks. Meet for coffee. Carol is right - she's leaning on another man for emotional support, and that's a threat to her marriage. (Now, please note I have no problem with this for Cookie - I think she should have gone ahead and fucked him, given all that Lucious has put her through. It's just that it's not as innocent as she thinks.)

I'm over the whole tour. It doesn't help that those actors are the weaker links in the cast. I just don't care.

[Vixenstud]

Shit at this point, Tiana's becoming 'Strawberry' Tiana.  What in the bluedilly hell does a strawberry have to do with someone being a ho?!

Never thought I'd say this but I hope Andre has a miraculous recovery....never had much use for the character but he's really improved.  Love Teri, especially since she seems to be the only woman that can shut Cookie down.

Speaking of Cook...girl, you might not be fucking Baldy but you might as well be.  And you know at some point he's going to 'accidentally' out their emotional sessions to Lucious.

Loved Becky's dress when she was asking Hakeem for a favor.

Oh, and Tracy?  You can up and die now, tired of your crackheaded ass.

[AsiagoSauce]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm over the whole tour. It doesn't help that those actors are the weaker links in the cast. I just don't care.

Yeah, the additional actors this season just aren't bringing it.  The drama is lukewarm.

[luckyroll3]

17 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

When Lucious is talking to Kinglsey and he says "Your mom went from cute Tracy to crackhead Tracy to strawberry Tracy,  What does strawberry Tracy mean?  Hope I'm not embarrassing myself, LOL!

17 hours ago, Rebky said:

Someone help me out.  What did Luscious mean when he said something like, "Tracy went from sweet Tracy to Strawberry Tracy"??

ETA: Great minds think alike SuzieQ!!!! 😄

Man, I had the same damn question, but was too lazy to google it.

17 hours ago, Dee said:

Strawberry means to become a pass-a-round.

Thank you!!

3 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

 What in the bluedilly hell does a strawberry have to do with someone being a ho?!

This is my next question.  Someone please explain!

Also, Tracy:  

No one forced you to be crackhead.  And you should be thankful that Kingsley, as annoying as he is, wasn't a crack baby.  And of course she treats her nurses like crap!

[tennisgurl]

God shut UP Tracy! Nobody held you down and forced you to do crack, and you could have told Lucious about the baby at any time, you just didnt, then made up some bullshit story to make yourself sound better to your kid! I mean, its like the one thing that actually wasnt Luciouses fault! And I get that Kingsley loves his mom and wants to believe the best of her, but she was also a crackhead! Crackheads arent known for their truth telling! And of course she is a massive ass to the poor nursing staff that has to deal with her., 

Kingsley should just his affairs in order now, because he is so the one heading for the coffin. All the heartfelt "I wanna reconnect with my dad" stuff is about five seconds from him announcing his retirement or showing pictures of his children in a war zone. 

[SimoneS]

It was a good episode, but I am just so annoyed with Cookie. She is playing with fire. I am worried about her and everyone around. When Lucious finds out about her "friendship" with Damian, he is going to lose his damn mind and destroy everything in sight. He is evil, but I really like Damian. Of course, he will always be Avon Barksdale like Idris Elba will always be Stringer Bell to me. And where was Damian when Cookie was single and dating? He would have been perfect for her then.

I have to admit that Lucious has evolved as a character. I used to hate him and wish every episode that someone would stab him in his evil heart, but he is trying to be a decent person these days. His reason for reaching out to Jeff was convoluted, but it was the right thing to do. As far as we know, Jeff is his son so he belongs at that table. Cookie found it in herself to grudgingly welcome him. I actually thought that was one of the calmer Lyon dinners. No one got shot, there was no yelling, no wine or food was thrown, and no butts were displayed. Ha. Too bad Jeff came at Lucious so hard and he is likely to be in the one in the coffin. He would have added a nice dynamic of the new son.

Andre is having his miracle recovery as expect. Hakeem will never truly grow up.

I love Jamal, but damn, I can't wait to Kai to take his leave for good. Go away and stay away, Kai.

Gabby looked really good last night. I really liked that dress and coat. They have always dressed her well. Kudos to wardrobe. I am sure it is Lee Daniels making them step up so kudos to him also. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by SimoneS

[AsiagoSauce]

I don't understand why the writers insist on making Cookie so unlikeable. She used to make the show in earlier seasons but now I find myself liking Lucious more!

Edited April 18, 2019 by AsiagoSauce

[Dee]

Why is Cookie unlikeable? It's Lucious who keeps screwing up.

He's the one using her charity for unseemly purposes. He's the one forcing his outside kid on her. He's the one offering Cookie little to no support during Andre's ordeal. He's the one constantly obsessing about getting Empire back. He's the one who still refuses to credit Empire's success to anyone else besides himself when push comes to shove.

Lucious has made huge strides as a husband and a father over the years, but he's still terrible. 

[Biggie B]

My guess is that it will be Kingsley who dies. Just as he and Lucious are establishing a relationship, someone will kill him, perhaps. Or maybe just an awful accident. But his character is superfluous. And his death would profoundly affect Lucious in a bad/sad way, while leaving Cookie somewhat relieved (as cold as that would be). She won't grieve for Kingsley, and that could serve to drive Cookie and Lucious apart. Or not. But that's my thought on who's in the coffin. Who else's death would Lucious be so emotional about?

If Jamal is still being written out, that leaves Andre and Hakeem - so I doubt Andre would die, since that would leave one son, Hakeem - and I think that scenario would compromise the whole family aspect of the show.

I am bothered by Andre's apparent miraculous recovery. As a cancer survivor, albeit only Stage 1, I know too many people who are Stage 4. You do not recover from Stage 4. You manage it, in the best of cases. Some of my Stage 4 peeps have been living with cancer for 15-20 years. But they will die from it, period. Why can't Andre's story go that route? He can still be a character for many years, just a character who's got Stage 4 cancer. Plus, it could worsen at any given time, making for good drama.

[AsiagoSauce]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Why is Cookie unlikeable? It's Lucious who keeps screwing up.

He's the one using her charity for unseemly purposes. He's the one forcing his outside kid on her. He's the one offering Cookie little to no support during Andre's ordeal. He's the one constantly obsessing about getting Empire back. He's the one who still refuses to credit Empire's success to anyone else besides himself when push comes to shove.

Lucious has made huge strides as a husband and a father over the years, but he's still terrible. 

Lucious is still a horrible person but like you said he's been making strides to better himself and his life. Cookie, on the other hand, is actively seeking a relationship (friendly or otherwise) with a man who's dangerous. Cross is nowhere near as trustworthy as her Cookie's own sisters. It took a conversation with her to realize that having intimate dinners with a virtual stranger might be a bad idea. The Cookie from earlier seasons was more perceptive and all around smarter and wouldn't have done that.

It's unfair for Cookie to judge Lucious for a love child that was born before he'd even met her and wasn't ever made aware to him until 30 years later. Out of all the horrible things that Lucious has done and is doing, this one isn't really his fault.

[Dee]

Cookie is leaning on a man (who she doesn't know is dangerous) for emotional support. She has been willing to disclose their friendship to Lucious several times, before being dissuaded by Carol or Cross.

Cookie from earlier seasons was primarily focused on getting her fair share of Empire, which put her constantly in Lucious orbit. And even then she was always looking elsewhere for a primary romantic partner who could provide for her what Lucious wouldn't/couldn't.

Now that she's relatively settled, in life and her marriage, she's doing the exact same thing.

Quote

It's unfair for Cookie to judge Lucious for a love child that was born before he'd even met her and wasn't ever made aware to him until 30 years later.

It's unfair for Lucious to parade that love child in front of Cookie, especially after years of abandonment & expecting her to play second fiddle to an endless string of women in his life.

If the tables were turned, and Cookie were in Lucious current position, Lucious wouldn't be nearly as forgiving or gracious as Cookie has been.

If Lucious wants to make amends with his son, that's his right. But expecting Cookie (and the rest of the family) to accept Jeff (especially given Jeff's previous behavior) is a bridge too far.

[AsiagoSauce]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Cookie is leaning on a man (who she doesn't know is dangerous) for emotional support. She has been willing to disclose their friendship to Lucious several times, before being dissuaded by Carol or Cross.

There are other ways of receiving emotional support without going to a strange man's loft/apartment and not telling anyone, though. The only reason she told Carol was because Carol had to cover for her. Cookie is a grown woman who can realize that having intimate dinners with a guy she almost slept with isn't a good idea when she's married. She's also perceptive enough to realize that Cross might be even lying to her about his "daughter" by the way his gaze shift while talking about her cancer. Cookie is normally able to read people quickly and fairly accurately so it's just frustrating to watch her trust him so much when all he's really done so far is smooth talk her.

I feel bad about the fact that Cookie has to look into the face of the man who nearly destroyed her company. That would make anyone lose their shit. I'm also aware that Lucious parading Kingsley around will only cause Cookie and Cross' bond to grow even stronger. I'm just hoping that she'll realize how bad of a person he is before it's too late. I'm also hoping that their relationship won't inadvertently cause one of her sons to end up in that coffin.

I just feel like the writers are dumbing her down just to cause more drama or conflict without actually writing good drama or conflict.

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, AsiagoSauce said:

I just feel like the writers are dumbing her down just to cause more drama or conflict without actually writing good drama or conflict.

This is what has caused a lot of  daytime soaps to be cancelled over the years.  When you sacrifice a character to service a plot, it will only cause viewers to bail.  I think that the guy is manipulating Cookie  about the story regarding his daughter dying of cancer and it is sad that she is falling for his lies..

[Artsda]

Cookie has become a stupid fool, going back over and over to a man's place for dinner who she almost slept with and knows wants her. 

[Dee]

11 hours ago, AsiagoSauce said:

She's also perceptive enough to realize that Cross might be even lying to her about his "daughter" by the way his gaze shift while talking about her cancer. Cookie is normally able to read people quickly and fairly accurately so it's just frustrating to watch her trust him so much when all he's really done so far is smooth talk her.

Or an alternative? What if Cross isn't lying. Not liking them together is one thing, assuming Cookie is acting out of character is another.

Nothing so far has indicated that Cross is lying or that Cookie and/or viewers should second guess his backstory.

Even before Carol found about Cookie's emotional affair, Cookie knew her dalliances with Cross weren't good for her marriage. Hence her inability to actually sleep with him anytime they're alone together. Even at her angriest with Lucious, she refused to sleep with Cross.

That doesn't mean Cookie is stupid for being genuinely torn between a man she's genuinely attracted to versus loving another man who, despite his best efforts, continually disappoints her in on way or another.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Dee

[AsiagoSauce]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

That doesn't mean Cookie is stupid for being genuinely torn between a man she's genuinely attracted to versus loving another man who, despite his best efforts, continually disappoints her in on way or another.

Um, I've never said that Cookie was stupid. My precise point is that Cookie was naively trusting a man she barely knew and that seemed out of character for what's been previously established of her.  Torn or not, she was being naive and I'm glad now that she's begun to distance herself from him. 

[politichick]

With all of this Jussie business, is it possible that now no one will end up in the coffin? 

I could not believe my ears when Thursty said, "I still think you need to get a DNA test," or something to that effect. Why would Lucious trust that Tracy woman who seems like she still may be an addict but now to pharmaceutical drugs. She is the worst.

I, too, am waiting to learn what a strawberry has to do with being a ho. All of your responses to what does Strawberry Tracy mean were a riot.

According to the urban dictionary: To people out there not hip to the fact, a strawberry is a girl sellin' pussy for crack to the Dopeman.

(n) A prostitute. A woman who sells her "strawberry" for money. The money earned will then be used towards purchasing drugs, and then the process repeats.

That red dress Becky wore was a gorgeous color on her. Agree with whoever noted the great care they put into dressing her.

This FBI business is getting on my nerves. 

Cookie is definitely playing with fire and I would not be at all surprised if Damon "accidentally" outs their dinners. Speaking of which, I need either a new television or new eyes because until I read this thread today I had no fucking idea that was Avon Barksdale. Didn't even recognize the voice.