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S02.E01: Running With the Bull


Lisin

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Daniel’s family fears he won’t recover from his injuries and his attackers will escape justice. Judy Dean shows Bobby some unexpected affection. Ted, Jr. hides a shameful secret from his wife. Sheriff Daggett investigates Daniel’s beating.
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I feel so sorry for Daniel. It would be a twist for me if he actually is guilty although I don't think so. It is hard to watch because so many of the characters are jerks, mainly Teddy. I don't remember seeing Melvin before, who is he?

  • Love 2
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I think Melvin is new.  Apparently he was a childhood friend of Daniel's, and it looks like he may have feelings for Amantha.  Or maybe he's just socially awkward.  But what a well-written character!  I've never warmed to Amantha -- which wouldn't bother her one bit -- but I warmed to her when she warmed to Melvin.  So many people would just say "thanks for the turtle" and dismiss him. 

 

I'm okay with Teddy.  He's jealous and insecure and doesn't have the insight to deal with that. 

 

Amazing episode, amazing show.

 

 

  • Love 1
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I think Melvin is the guy who rented the apartment to Amantha and he told her about Daniel helping him with his turtle back when they were kids.  

 

It might have been just me, but was it implied that Teddy Jr played a part in the attack on Daniel?  

  • Love 4
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It might have been just me, but was it implied that Teddy Jr played a part in the attack on Daniel?

That was my take with his neck pain.  In which case...yikes.  Regardless, he's got secrets.

Still can't get a bead on the causes of the tension in the Tawney/Teddy marriage.  Did they pre-date Daniel's release?  If, so is it that they married for the wrong reasons (she seems very young) and are growing apart or is there something else.  He's a tool, but he seems to genuinely love her.

 

I like that this show doesn't make fun of Tawney's faith.  That would be so easy.  She, like all the characters, are flawed but essentially honorable people who are just trying to what they think is the right thing.  It's very uncynical.  How refreshing.

  • Love 2
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I feel like Tawney was young and and naive, and may very well still be, and married the person she thought she "loved." Then as she learned more about Ten Jr and/or herself she realized she made a mistake. Aroudn this time Daniel gets released and she's drawn to him.

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I thought Teddy's neck pain was from the coffee encounter.  But I don't remember how that went down, just how it ended.

 

Odd and sad that Teddy could only manage to hold Tawney for a few seconds. 

  • Love 1
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I thought Teddy's neck pain was from the coffee encounter.

Ah.  Yes. I forgot that the whole of S1 took place over 6 days and his neck would still be sore from the stranglehold.

 

Odd and sad, too, that in one ep of S1 she seemed to have such a hang-up about Teddy seeing her naked.  Not sure if there is a deeper issue other than her general feeling about her marriage.  In this episode, it seems to be Teddy doing the pulling away.

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(edited)

Isn't Melvin also Amantha's landlord? We met him last season when she was looking for an apartment.

 

ETA: Sorry. BlueBonnet already answered. Good callback with him and the turtle. I really liked the scene with him and Amantha.

Edited by Fisher King
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I really should have rewatched S1. It's strange having so much time pass for us viewers betw the attack on Daniel and his being in a hospital, but it's only been, what, a day or so? But man, every time we see Daniel lying there, his face red and swollen, I just teared up. When he awoke and was thrashing around, that was hard to take. It reminded me of a similar experience I had with my late husband in the hospital, so that really hit home.

 

IIRC, I hated Ted Jr last season, but I'm actually feeling a bit more sympathetic toward him. Again, I had to remind myself that the coffee incident happened only a couple of days ago for him, so it makes sense that he's still recovering. The way he was staring at the coffee pot made me feel for him, as well as just the way he was with his dad and the sheriff. He seems like he wants to say something, but how could he. Not at this time. Also, it would be a humiliating thing to talk about.

 

I'm not saying I think he's a swell guy, but I can see some complexity being hinted at.

 

I didn't remember Melvin, so thanks for the reminder of who he is. I really loved one line of his -- "Regrets grow tiresome."

 

It's good to have the show back. Aden Young is wonderful. My second favorite character is Tawny.

  • Love 3
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"I didn't remember Melvin, so thanks for the reminder of who he is. I really loved one line of his -- "Regrets grow tiresome."

 

Yes!  For once, a socially awkward character who -- like Daniel -- has something to say that's worth hearing, and who says it without tics, no stammering, hemming and hawing, shuffling of feet, flop sweat, etc.

  • Love 3
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Does the picture look stretched out to you guys?  We have DirecTV and for some reason, the ratio looks "off", like it's shown in letterbox, with the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.  It makes me wonder if I'm seeing the show as it's meant to be seen. 

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I've missed this show so much. Every scene with Daniel and Kerwin was heartbreaking. His downward spiral after Kerwin was executed was tough to watch but I couldn't turn away because Aden Young is brilliant. I was really disturbed that one of the men who raped him was in the cell right next to him and was able to taunt him whenever he got the itch to. I wonder if that's part of the reason Daniel started meditating?

The town they live in is full of secrets. It seems like so many people know the truth about Hannah's murder but are hellbent on hiding it. I got the sense that Hannah's mom sent the brother to rough up Daniel. Something was off with her when the son came home.

I don't know what the guy who got rid of the body in season 1 has to do with all of this but he is seriously corrupt. Most of the people are corrupt.

I hope Daniel is really innocent because it would devastate me if he was guilty. He seems so sweet, if a bit eccentric.

  • Love 2
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First foray into the forums. So glad there are people I can talk about this beautiful little gem of a show with!

GayleM, I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one crying during that scene with Daniel and Kerwin.

When they took Kerwin away in S1, it was just heartbreaking to me so I'm happy to see him again even if it's a kind of a gutpunch to know that he's gone and it's all in Daniel's mind. But wow, what a beautifully written and acted scene that was with Kerwin telling Daniel he loved him and wouldn't judge him for choosing to cross over.

I couldn't remember Melvin either, so thanks to those who did. I really liked Amantha in that scene. I like her anyway, even when she annoys me, but thought she was great in that particular scene.

I'm curious to see where they go with Teddy this year.

Really happy this show is back!

  • Love 1
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I got the sense that Hannah's mom sent the brother to rough up Daniel. Something was off with her when the son came home.

 

I may be misremembering, but I think the son just did it on his own, esp after seeing how his mother continues to hold onto her grief and the past. My reaction to the scene in this ep was that the mother figured out her son was responsible for beating Daniel, and that made her happy, but the son is feeling conflicted about it.

  • Love 1
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Usually I would dislike an Amantha type character, but I like her because she is the only person who truly has Daniel's back. Even his mother who means well, I don't completely trust her because of her loyalty to Teddy and her husband. If it came down to Teddy versus Daniel I'm not sure she would choose Daniel.

  • Love 1
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I also had trouble remembering some of the details, like Melvin and what Bobby Dean looked like (I figured that out pretty quick but I didn't immediately know who he was when that scene started).  It's interesting that the episodes are unfolding almost at a 1 day per episode rate.  We are probably only 8-9 days since Daniel was released from prison at this point.  Daniel is probably in for a long road for his recovery... most television shows wouldn't have the lead character bed ridden for an extended period so I wonder if a time jump will happen at some point.   

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Such a good show and such wonderful acting, not to mention the excellent casting.  Spent a good portion of the hour wiping tears away.  It really got to me.  Count me in on forgetting a lot of what had happened last season (especially with Teddy, Jr.); I had to read a couple of summaries (after watching this episode) so I could follow along. I'm having a harder time understanding/following the creepy guy's story (who threatened to spank his daughter).  Too many questions about him and no answers. 

 

 

  • Love 1
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I'm having a harder time understanding/following the creepy guy's story (who threatened to spank his daughter).

 

 

At this point the audience isn't supposed to understand his story or his role in the murder.  There haven't been many details revealed either about him or mystery as a whole.  He and the guy who killed himself in the beginning clearly know more about the murder than police, and maybe even Daniel.  The guy who killed himself seemingly was unclear about what had happened but nevertheless killed himself... the reason why is again a mystery.  The creepy guy (Trey Willis) felt a motive to cover up the suicide.  So we know a) he's hiding something b) he was somehow involved in the original murder (though this does not necessarily mean he is the murderer).  He may in fact be the only person alive who actually knows what happened, since Daniel seemingly does not have a clear idea on account of being under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms when it happened.  I believe that is more or less the gist of what we are supposed to know about him.  It might be too obvious if he were in fact the actual murderer since he's the only other suspect that the audience is privy too, but obviously more about how he ties into the murder will be revealed as the story goes on...

  • Love 5
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Does the picture look stretched out to you guys?  We have DirecTV and for some reason, the ratio looks "off", like it's shown in letterbox, with the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.  It makes me wonder if I'm seeing the show as it's meant to be seen. 

 

We DTVers are not seeing it as it's meant to be seen. As of now, DirecTV still doesn't carry Sundance in HD. Which in and of itself is pretty much inexcusable in 2014. But to both stretch the picture horizontally and letterbox the picture at the top and bottom... well, that's just being a dick about it. I compensate by using the "Zoom 1" setting on my HDTV, which at least fixes the stretched-horizontally issue and stops everybody from looking like Stewie Griffin, and hides the letterbox bars off-screen. But the picture quality remains rabbit-ears crappy regardless.

 

Fortunately, the show itself is so unbelievably awesome that I can resist the urge to, just out of principle, refuse to watch it. Still pisses me the hell off, but what are you gonna do?

 

Anyway... Daniel and Kerwin. Wow. Part of me wishes Daniel would just give up and opt to go hang out with his bestie in the afterlife. The only times when Daniel seems truly happy, comfortable and at ease are when he's with Kerwin. Not even Amantha nor Tawny can bring that out in him quite like Kerwin does.

 

Can I also say how much I absolutely love the "Particles" recap format? Those are my favorite. The format itself adds such a whole other layer of enjoyment to what is already great recappage. Love it.

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I'm new to the show. Watched the first season and ep 1 of the second season this weekend. The show can be a little intense at times, but I'm hooked.

When the day of the week ends in a Y

This is about Amantha from Sarah's post and accurately sums up my level of annoyance with the character. There are many unlikeable characters on this show, but she has annoyed me from scene 1. I'm not sure why. It may be because I feel like I've seen this character type too often (not exactly the same, but Deb Morgan springs to mind) and I'm just tired of this type of portrayal.

I got the sense that Hannah's mom sent the brother to rough up Daniel. Something was off with her when the son came home.

  

I may be misremembering, but I think the son just did it on his own, esp after seeing how his mother continues to hold onto her grief and the past. My reaction to the scene in this ep was that the mother figured out her son was responsible for beating Daniel, and that made her happy, but the son is feeling conflicted about it.

I don't think they showed how the decision to beat up Daniel came about. I do think the son did it on his own too, but not because of the mother holding onto her grief (although, that may be a part of it). I think he did it because he was nonexistent in his mother's eyes. Now he's done something worthy as far as she is concerned and she's acknowledging him. He does seem conflicted.

  

Usually I would dislike an Amantha type character, but I like her because she is the only person who truly has Daniel's back. Even his mother who means well, I don't completely trust her because of her loyalty to Teddy and her husband. If it came down to Teddy versus Daniel I'm not sure she would choose Daniel.

 

Although Daniel and his mother have a strange/distant relationship - her inability to hug him in the scene where he completely breaks down as an example - I think the mother showed her loyalty when she asked Daniel to help renovate the kitchen. Earlier her husband mentioned to Ted that they were thinking of asking Daniel to leave and how difficult that would be to do. I think in that scene the mother was about to do so but couldn't go through with it and asked him to help with the kitchen instead.

 

The guy who killed himself seemingly was unclear about what had happened but nevertheless killed himself... the reason why is again a mystery.

I think the guy who killed himself may have testified that he saw Daniel commit the murder which, if he did, would have been a lie based on his conversation before he shot himself. I think he shot himself because everything was going to open up and he clearly couldn't go through it again. The prosecutor made a comment to the senator along the lines of how it would be nice if the sheriff could track down the one witness who saw/testified that Daniel committed the murder. I took that to mean the guy who killed himself. I could be misremembering that though.

  • Love 6
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I think the guy who killed himself may have testified that he saw Daniel commit the murder which, if he did, would have been a lie based on his conversation before he shot himself.

 

 

You are right... I had to read a recap to remind of that scene.  Not sure about the comment from the prosecutor... I can't find many detailed recaps online.  I may have to commit to a rewatch of season 1 and recap some of the details surrounding Trey Willis and George Melton (the guy who killed himself) in the speculation thread.

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(edited)

I may be misremembering, but I think the son just did it on his own, esp after seeing how his mother continues to hold onto her grief and the past. My reaction to the scene in this ep was that the mother figured out her son was responsible for beating Daniel, and that made her happy, but the son is feeling conflicted about it.

 

I agree that the son did it on his own and his mother's grief helped spark the son into the revengeful act.

I also got the impression from her reaction that not only was she aware that he did the deed but that she is also scared of her son. Maybe that's just me. I felt even more strongly about that on a second viewing last night.

 

There aren't too many people in that town that I trust at all, especially the deputy assisting the sheriff.

 

I think the Senator has some skeletons he wants to keep hidden, and may not be if more truth about Hannah's death is revealed.

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Edited by Fisher King
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I also got the impression from her reaction that not only was she aware that he did the deed but that she is also scared of her son. Maybe that's just me. I felt even more strongly about that on a second viewing last night.

That's interesting. I didn't sense she was afraid of him, but more that she was proud of what he did. When he tried to talk to her earlier when she was rummaging around fixing things in her daughter's (?) room, she wouldn't even acknowledge him. Then, after the beating occurred, he all of a sudden existed in her eyes and she was trying very hard to talk to him. I'll have to rewatch those scenes now to see if things look differently. If we saw more of their relationship beforehand, it would be clearer.

  • Love 5
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I haven't rewatched it, but I didn't get the impression that the mom was afraid of him. She seemed kind of desperate to get a loving response from him. The way I saw it was she was happy that Daniel was beaten up, and she 'knew' that her son had done it, and maybe done it for her. Then he comes home but he's sullen and unresponsive. She loves him for doing this deed for her, but now she sees there's a distance betw them. I guess I can see that she's afraid, but not of him hurting her or what he's capable of; she's afraid that he's pulling away and maybe doesn't love her anymore now that he's committed such a violent act.

  • Love 1
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I didn't sense she was afraid of him, but more that she was proud of what he did. When he tried to talk to her earlier when she was rummaging around fixing things in her daughter's (?) room, she wouldn't even acknowledge him. Then, after the beating occurred, he all of a sudden existed in her eyes and she was trying very hard to talk to him. I'll have to rewatch those scenes now to see if things look differently. If we saw more of their relationship beforehand, it would be clearer.

 

I see what you're saying. She did have a look of glee on her face as he walked in and the news was on the TV.  That spark of life in her was something that we've not seen before. The impression of fear hit me first, but that's probably just because their dynamic kinda creeped me out. And yes, we don't know enough about their personal history. Maybe they've both just been zoned out for years since Hannah's death.

 

  • Love 1
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We DTVers are not seeing it as it's meant to be seen. As of now, DirecTV still doesn't carry Sundance in HD. Which in and of itself is pretty much inexcusable in 2014. But to both stretch the picture horizontally and letterbox the picture at the top and bottom... well, that's just being a dick about it. I compensate by using the "Zoom 1" setting on my HDTV, which at least fixes the stretched-horizontally issue and stops everybody from looking like Stewie Griffin, and hides the letterbox bars off-screen. But the picture quality remains rabbit-ears crappy regardless.

 

Fortunately, the show itself is so unbelievably awesome that I can resist the urge to, just out of principle, refuse to watch it. Still pisses me the hell off, but what are you gonna do?

 

Anyway... Daniel and Kerwin. Wow. Part of me wishes Daniel would just give up and opt to go hang out with his bestie in the afterlife. The only times when Daniel seems truly happy, comfortable and at ease are when he's with Kerwin. Not even Amantha nor Tawny can bring that out in him quite like Kerwin does.

 

Can I also say how much I absolutely love the "Particles" recap format? Those are my favorite. The format itself adds such a whole other layer of enjoyment to what is already great recappage. Love it.

You can switch to Dish!

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You can switch to Dish!

 

Or if you are on a contract, at the very least raise hell about it and threaten to switch.  Hell maybe you will get a free month or something for your trouble, and maybe they might quit screwing around and offer the network in HD.  This is such a beautifully shot show, a terrible presentation like the one described is totally unacceptable.

  • Love 1
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The best part was Kerwin jumping on Daniel's shoulders with glee when Daniel told him he got out of prison.  Daniel even had a little smile on his face that the news had made Kerwin so happy.

  • Love 1
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(edited)

I think the guy who killed himself [George] may have testified that he saw Daniel commit the murder which, if he did, would have been a lie based on his conversation [with Trey] before he shot himself. I think he shot himself because everything was going to open up and he clearly couldn't go through it again.

The prosecutor made a comment to the senator along the lines of how it would be nice if the sheriff could track down the one witness who saw/testified that Daniel committed the murder. I took that to mean the guy who killed himself.

You're right about what the senator said in season 1, episode 1, and in episode 4 Trey told Carl:

I saw them arguing with each other. I saw 'em wandering off together. Now, that's what I testified to then, and that's what I remember now.… Look, I wish I had seen him do it, Carl, because I know he did. But I didn't, so I can't lie.

So why did George testify that he saw Daniel kill Hanna? Perhaps an authority figure told the kid "we know Daniel did this, but we don't have a rock-solid case against him. You're the only one who can make sure Daniel pays for what he did to Hanna." Maybe George shot himself out of guilt, rather than fear.

As for this episode, Melvin the landlord (who looks much older than Daniel, even though there's only 2 years' age difference between the actors) became Mr. Foreshadowing:

You're way too smart to be in Paulie. You stay there too long, you do too much thinking at the same time, it's bad for your mental health.

So will Amantha choose to leave Paulie, or to be more stupid?

Edited by editorgrrl
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So very late to find this show, and I sat through all of Season 1 with a fascination I didn't quite understand.  However, this first episode of season 2 was breathtaking.  I didn't see any wasted movement.  It was beautiful.

The scene in the winter woods with Kerwin and Danny - the actor who plays Danny had his character tuned perfectly.  His face was magnificent as Kerwin was talking.  It felt as though all of Season 1 was a warm up for that performance.  Bravo.

The actress who plays Tawney has also become completely believable.  And Danny's mom gave a beautiful performance.  I can't give enough compliments about the casting director(s) on this show.  Everyone is pretty much perfect, especially the women.  (And the actress who plays Amantha blows me away because I have only known her as Scottie on Suits, and she is completely different here.)  Speaking of Amantha:

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It may be because I feel like I've seen this character type too often (not exactly the same, but Deb Morgan springs to mind) and I'm just tired of this type of portrayal.

Oh, please, no.  I think Amantha is much more subtle in this incarnation (although I agree, we've seen a type of character like hers before).  I like her a lot.  To me, she conveys that she is brittle, and that she is trying hard to be the perfect sister for Daniel, despite whatever hurt she has experienced herself.  I also love that she seems genuinely happy around the lawyer.  It is such a difference in her demeanor.  I think she has a lot of layers.  If Debbie Morgan were playing her, I feel it would be all pathos, all the time.  Turned up to 11.

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I think the guy who killed himself may have testified that he saw Daniel commit the murder which, if he did, would have been a lie based on his conversation before he shot himself. I think he shot himself because everything was going to open up and he clearly couldn't go through it again.

I agree.  I originally thought the guy who killed himself was another of Hannah's brothers.  It does seem he killed himself out of guilt for lying that Daniel murdered Hannah.  I haven't figured out what happened to Hannah, yet, although I have to believe Kerwin that Danny didn't do it.  I would feel betrayed if Kerwin was wrong.

When he tried to talk to her earlier when she was rummaging around fixing things in her daughter's (?) room, she wouldn't even acknowledge him

Oh, thank you for explaining this.  I couldn't figure out what that scene was about.  I thought the guy who said, "I'm home" was the mean guy in the cell next to Danny's (who honestly deserves a shout out for his scene on the floor in this episode.  Much more effective than the one in The Americans, which was almost exactly the same setting.)

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I thought Teddy's neck pain was from the coffee encounter.  But I don't remember how that went down, just how it ended.

Oh, good comment, AuntiePam.  I, of course, had jumped to the conclusion that Teddy had beaten up Daniel.  That makes a lot more sense.

  • Love 1
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On 5/30/2016 at 6:58 AM, ToxicUnicorn said:

So very late to find this show, and I sat through all of Season 1 with a fascination I didn't quite understand.  However, this first episode of season 2 was breathtaking.  I didn't see any wasted movement.  It was beautiful.

The scene in the winter woods with Kerwin and Danny - the actor who plays Danny had his character tuned perfectly.  His face was magnificent as Kerwin was talking.  It felt as though all of Season 1 was a warm up for that performance.  Bravo.

The actress who plays Tawney has also become completely believable.  And Danny's mom gave a beautiful performance.  I can't give enough compliments about the casting director(s) on this show.  Everyone is pretty much perfect, especially the women.  (And the actress who plays Amantha blows me away because I have only known her as Scottie on Suits, and she is completely different here.)  Speaking of Amantha:

Oh, please, no.  I think Amantha is much more subtle in this incarnation (although I agree, we've seen a type of character like hers before).  I like her a lot.  To me, she conveys that she is brittle, and that she is trying hard to be the perfect sister for Daniel, despite whatever hurt she has experienced herself.  I also love that she seems genuinely happy around the lawyer.  It is such a difference in her demeanor.  I think she has a lot of layers.  If Debbie Morgan were playing her, I feel it would be all pathos, all the time.  Turned up to 11.

I agree.  I originally thought the guy who killed himself was another of Hannah's brothers.  It does seem he killed himself out of guilt for lying that Daniel murdered Hannah.  I haven't figured out what happened to Hannah, yet, although I have to believe Kerwin that Danny didn't do it.  I would feel betrayed if Kerwin was wrong.

When he tried to talk to her earlier when she was rummaging around fixing things in her daughter's (?) room, she wouldn't even acknowledge him

Oh, thank you for explaining this.  I couldn't figure out what that scene was about.  I thought the guy who said, "I'm home" was the mean guy in the cell next to Danny's (who honestly deserves a shout out for his scene on the floor in this episode.  Much more effective than the one in The Americans, which was almost exactly the same setting.)

Oh, good comment, AuntiePam.  I, of course, had jumped to the conclusion that Teddy had beaten up Daniel.  That makes a lot more sense.

I think they want you to jump to that conclusion . His neck hurting is kind of ambiguous . Could be from the coffee incident or from beating Daniel up . Why did Daniel attack ted again ? I didn't listen to what led up to that . 

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