S09.E16: The Storm

[AngelaHunter]

17 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Would there be wild packs of dogs?  IMO probably not. Especially in the south where heart worm is a continued problem. 

Agree. And dogs probably wouldn't live much longer than 5 years, if even that, so it makes Negan's pack of docked and cropped sleek, healthy dogs -10 years post-ZA - look even more an eye-rolling absurdity created by someone at the far end of the clueless scale.

Modern, ornamental fireplaces are useless for heating. In fact, they suck heat out of the room. Wood stoves - preferably combustion - are the best and can throw amazing heat. I found this out during an ice storm that knocked out power for two weeks in January.

[Eulipian 5k]

FPP = FNTF, Negan's best line.

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, Gobi said:

I can't see walkers doing 30 miles a day, for that matter. 

Okay, so let’s be generous to their decaying falling arches and say half that; even at 15 miles a day, the walkers could cover 300 miles in under three weeks, give or take.

Also worth considering: walkers don’t need breaks to eat, sleep, piss or shit.  Walkers just keep walking all day, every day, for as long as the Whisperers let them - the only real downtime on their progress, in fact, would be that needed by their shepherds.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Usual base figure for a relatively healthy adult walking across uneven rural terrain is 30 miles a day, give or take.

Let's not forget that the Whisperers move very slowly because they shuffle along in packs of Walkers. One wonders if they ever have trouble steering their herds in the right direction. What happens when the herd of Walkers want to go in some other direction because they hear a noise or something? Do the Whisperers have to work double-time to round them up and steer them back in the right direction, like cowboys? 

You know, everything we know about the Whisperers "steering" walkers flies in the face of everything we've learned about them in the past eight seasons. The amount of hand-waving this show expects us to do is phenomenal. 

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Not everyone has the time to watch the "Talking Dead" to fill in all of the gaps where Hardwick gets all orgasmic over how each new episode is the most special episode ever made.

I have never watched it, so never find out the reasons for what we see during the show since it seems this show has need of an aftershow to explain. Never had that on any other program I've watched, yet I managed to figure out what was going on all by myself. Poor Hardwick has to be multi-orgasmic to keep jonesing about this show.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

King Useless, and Queen Dumbshit some tips on how to survive one winter storm. 

🤣 The Royal Couple.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

They can still be used to cook over or to melt snow to be used for drinking water.

It can, but it won't keep you warm unless you stand right in front of it and keep turning around so one side of you won't freeze.

I was thinking: When they skedaddled from the Kingdom, what about the animals? Did they have no animals at all, other than horses? No chickens, ducks or livestock of any kind? Or did they abandon them to die? I believe there are a lot of wild turkeys in VA, but never did we see one.

[Gobi]

39 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I have never watched it, so never find out the reasons for what we see during the show since it seems this show has need of an aftershow to explain. Never had that on any other program I've watched, yet I managed to figure out what was going on all by myself. Poor Hardwick has to be multi-orgasmic to keep jonesing about this show.

🤣 The Royal Couple.

It can, but it won't keep you warm unless you stand right in front of it and keep turning around so one side of you won't freeze.

I was thinking: When they skedaddled from the Kingdom, what about the animals? Did they have no animals at all, other than horses? No chickens, ducks or livestock of any kind? Or did they abandon them to die? I believe there are a lot of wild turkeys in VA, but never did we see one.

Oh, I think we saw a lot of turkeys.

[heisenberg]

One of the worst episode I have seen on this show.  I don't care anymore about the relationships, alliances, characters, etc..  They can do what they want, they are not coherent anyway.

The only thing I was caring about was the plot and maybe new interesting characters I would like but it all went to sh... hell in the last episode.

They are not even able to figure out what winter is, they just do random things for the sake of it without even trying to make it look real.  Everyone on this show is walking around trying to look badass with a stick but none of them are able to do a simple task that requires some "learning", "Craftsmanship", "logic" or even "science".

This finale just gave me the interest to view back the movie Idiocraty,  the people in that movie are way more clever than in TWD.

It is sad because I was able for most of the season to make abstraction that they are just dummies walking around and I was able to appreciate most of the plot.  But in the end they are really too dumb.

Even some walkers are more clever than the real people,  and I am not even talking about the whisperers.

Boy the writers are taking the viewers for (insert a word of your choice here).

Edited April 3, 2019 by heisenberg

[AngelaHunter]

42 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

This finale just gave me the interest to view back the movie Idiocraty,

When I first viewed "Idiocracy," I thought it was just a mildly amusing, slightly silly comedy. But now I see it as prophetic.

Call me stupid too, but I'm not getting why the denizens of the Kingdom couldn't just patch the roofs (and maybe clean a chimney or two?) and hunker down til winter passed, but seemed to think it preferable to abandon the whole place and go off on a sojourn in a blizzard. I know the blizzard hadn't hit when they left, but somehow the King, or maybe Jerry, had some forecast from somewhere and knew it was coming. No one with any sense would venture out in it. 

14 minutes ago, 3jt said:

I thought that it was the boiler that was having problems -and ONLY Henry knew how to "fix" it. I thought learning to weld and such was the reason that he was going to Hilltop to apprentice.

Henry could fix it! Hee! I thought he was there to learn blacksmithing, but it really doesn't matter because he learned nothing and did nothing productive - not a single thing. He only created problems for the grownups and acted like a spoiled, privileged Heir to the Throne. "Useless as tits on a bull," as we used to say.

[heisenberg]

33 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

When I first viewed "Idiocracy," I thought it was just a mildly amusing, slightly silly comedy. But now I see it as prophetic.

Yeah, we are living in some scary times.

[heisenberg]

35 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Call me stupid too, but I'm not getting why the denizens of the Kingdom couldn't just patch the roofs (and maybe clean a chimney or two?) and hunker down til winter passed, but seemed to think it preferable to abandon the whole place and go off on a sojourn in a blizzard. I know the blizzard hadn't hit when they left, but somehow the King, or maybe Jerry, had some forecast from somewhere and knew it was coming. No one with any sense would venture out in it.

I have just been throught one of the most difficult winter, there is still 10 feet of snow everywhere around me (I live in Quebec), my front neighbor's house collapsed under the weight of the snow, it was mosly -25 celsius, etc...

I don't expect the show to reproduce to the perfection the winter conditions but they at least could have rent a freezer for one day or two with a green screen or else,  it was just ridiculous.

I have been caught in the same situation than Eugene and his gang.  There was no fireplace, -45 -50 celsius, we were about 8 people in a shack in the woods and a fuse had blown off leaving us with no electricy and heating for a night.  We never went roaming into the storm waiting to die... lol!,  we just lited up a few candles stuck hugin each other with blankets and waited for the morning, no one died :-).

Most people who lives in cold weather carry candles in their car.  If you get stuck that small little flame can save your life.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Let's not forget that the Whisperers move very slowly because they shuffle along in packs of Walkers.

Yup - but they can do so 24/7.  At a guess I’d say Awful has the Whisperers split up into shifts so they can rotate continuously herding / eating & sleeping / catching back up with the herd.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

One wonders if they ever have trouble steering their herds in the right direction. What happens when the herd of Walkers want to go in some other direction because they hear a noise or something? Do the Whisperers have to work double-time to round them up and steer them back in the right direction, like cowboys? 

Ya kidding, right?  Daryl set off a fuckin’ 4th of July fireworks show trying to divert a herd, and it didn’t do much more than twitch in his direction before continuing on its original (Whisperer-herded) course.  Pardon my French, but it lmost makes you wonder if somebody came up with spray-on walker pussy scent or something similar.

In truth, the only thing I’ve ever been able to guess is the herding Whisperers carry with them some method of making singular sharp noises. The herders make a single rap / crack / whatever, the nearest part of the herd turns towards the sound, and they don’t see anything but other “walkers” (Whisperers) - but those “walkers” appear to be moving in a particular direction towards something, the herd instinct kicks in and the real walkers play Follow-the-Whisperer.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

I know the blizzard hadn't hit when they left, but somehow the King, or maybe Jerry, had some forecast from somewhere and knew it was coming. No one with any sense would venture out in it. 

Jerry had some kind of barometer, so they knew worse weather was approaching; they apparently didn’t have any real idea when it would hit, though, or how bad.  The first snowflakes started falling right as the Kingdomers departed the Kingdom gates, but (according to Jerry in the episode) the barometer didn’t start seriously dropping - indicating a significant weather shift - until they were already on the road.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Nashville
Wording

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, heisenberg said:

(I live in Quebec),

Me too! Gets damned cold here! During our famous ice storm, so much ice was on our roof it bowed, making opening the door very difficult. We took Rick's advice to Carl and "stayed in the house", which is what anyone with an ounce of sense would do. It may be cold in the homes, as no one thought of cleaning the chimneys since it seems it's the first time it's ever been cold in VA but I can guarantee it's much colder out in the open in the wind-driven snow that feels like it's cutting your face off. Just watch the movie "Everest" and see what real cold looks like. 

1 minute ago, heisenberg said:

We never went roaming into the storm waiting to die... lol!, 

Uh, no. OTOH, I guess if the blizzard was so warm you don't need a scarf around your mouth and nose to prevent ice crystals in your lungs, and you can stand around having heart-to-heart convos like Carol and Lydia (BTW, Carol's tears would have frozen in a real blizzard) then you're good to go. I wish we could have warm blizzards here.

9 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Pardon my French

Don't start talking like Negan!🤣

[heisenberg]

24 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Me too!

Cool!   I now live in CHertsey but I used to be in Val-David the last 20 years.

[diebartdie]

It does not ever get -40C as far south as the show is set, very rarely even -20C really. I know to eyes used to temperatures like that "our heroes" looked silly, not properly bundled up, etc. I bet though, if you were USED to -40C in winter time and suddenly you found yourself in a "southern blizzard" (not truly southern but compared to Minnesota or Edmonton...y'all know what I mean) YOU TOO might traipse around with your heavy ass winter coat unzippered (probably not for an hours long trek but still...). I just feel like this is maybe the weirdest nitpick ever. They film in GEORGIA in the SUMMER TIME. Most of the "blizzard" shots were filmed in a sound stage.  Yall act like they should have a level of verisimilitude requiring filming on the top of Mount Everest during a blizzard, otherwise all this ACTING and STAGECRAFT is beneath us and should never be on anyone's tv screens. Hilarious.

[heisenberg]

13 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Yall act like they should have a level of verisimilitude requiring filming on the top of Mount Everest during a blizzard, otherwise all this ACTING and STAGECRAFT is beneath us and should never be on anyone's tv screens. Hilarious. 

Nope, no one said that. 

But the movie-tv industry have been able to do winters for a lot of decades now.   Like I wrote,  even if they are down south they could have rent a part of a freezer into a warehouse to do all the close-up like other does,  and they would have to button their coats because it is very cold. 

Most of the shows will make fake ice on the beard and the hairs, they did not.

Most of the other shows do it  so... Why don't they just?

Edited April 3, 2019 by heisenberg

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, diebartdie said:

if you were USED to -40C in winter time and suddenly you found yourself in a "southern blizzard" (not truly southern but compared to Minnesota or Edmonton...y'all know what I mean) YOU TOO might traipse around with your heavy ass winter coat unzippered

Just in the snow, yes. It can be reasonably warm even in deep snow on a calm and sunny day. I've sweated doing cross-country skiing even on freezing days because it was sunny and with no wind. In a howling blizzard - no. It's not warm and certainly not warm enough for open coats and no hats, unless you have a death wish. The wind makes it feel many degrees colder than it actually is, and the wind chill factor is what counts. Even if it weren't freezing, leaving your clothes open and your head uncovered in blowing snow conditions(and you lose most heat through your head) to become packed with snow would create wetness in both places, which would freeze at night.

I don't know why I'm surprised at this show giving us the fakest blizzard I've ever seen, but I don't like being totally conscious when I'm watching a show filled with peril and tribulation, "Oh, it's so obviously all fake on a sound stage".  That kind of ruins the illusion, IMO. 

1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

Cool!   I now live in CHertsey but I used to be in Val-David the last 20 years.

I visited Chertsey once and had friends in Val-David. Pretty place! I'm about 50km west of Montreal.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I bet though, if you were USED to -40C in winter time and suddenly you found yourself in a "southern blizzard" (not truly southern but compared to Minnesota or Edmonton...y'all know what I mean) YOU TOO might traipse around with your heavy ass winter coat unzippered (probably not for an hours long trek but still...).

Back in the ‘90s I spent a few years telecommuting from Nashville to a job in Anchorage, and every 3 months or so they’d fly me up for a week or two to deal with the 5% of my job which couldn’t be handled over the network.  I got to where I loved the January/February trips, for two reasons:

1. NO fucking tourists up there in winter.
2. After spending a couple of weeks in weather ranging from -15F to -40F, coming back to Nashville’s version of “winter” was an absolute hoot.  

I recall red-eyeing it one time to be back home for my niece’s birthday party at a local roller skating rink - left Friday night, got in Saturday morning, and the fam and I (along with a multitude of other parents and kiddies who were also doing birthday things) were in line outside the roller rink by noontime waiting for the place to open.  In the Nashville area it was about 30F, and everybody in line was bundled up in winter wear - except me; 15 hours earlier I’d been in -20F, so I’m in a T-shirt and shorts.  People were looking at me like I’d sprouted an extra head or something. 😄 

My point - and I do have one - is this: sometimes strange, weird, or downright incomprehensible is simply a matter of different acclimatization. 😉 

[OoohMaggie]

Living in an area that gets a bit of snow every couple of years and certainly no blizzards, I thought the scenes looked pretty impressive, they did put a lot into creating it, as is shown in the ‘making of’ clip. It was certainly no more irritating than any of the other things that we let slide on a weekly basis.

Edited April 4, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[iMonrey]

Quote

But the movie-tv industry have been able to do winters for a lot of decades now.   Like I wrote,  even if they are down south they could have rent a part of a freezer into a warehouse to do all the close-up like other does,  and they would have to button their coats because it is very cold. 

The snow on the ground looks so damn fake. You would think by now Hollywood would have come up with something more realistic than whatever kind of fake flakes they've been using since the 1920's, but no. Any time they showed a close-up of walker hands reaching up out of the snow on the ground it just fell away like laundry detergent. That's not how snow on the ground looks, ever. 

[JasonCC]

Even if they weren't maintenance experts, cleaning the chimneys shouldn't have been that hard. The boiler finally going would really suck, though, but I tend to believe the "rot" mentioned was the biggest culprit in the fall of the Kingdom. They already seemed the least agriculturally adept settlement of the bunch---although they always had the most horses and mules. 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

I tend to believe the "rot" mentioned was the biggest culprit in the fall of the Kingdom. They already seemed the least agriculturally adept settlement of the bunch

Fairs and tigers and fake thrones and movie nights - cool. Maintaining their dwellings in any way seemed so totally beyond any of them they'd rather set off into dangerous open territory with a snowstorm on the way than do some half-assed repair job that might let them exist there until conditions improve. I'm pretty sure spring comes quite early in VA.  Couldn't they find a book somewhere on roof repair or chimney cleaning? Did no tradesmen, contractors or carpenters of any kind live in the Kingdom?

[mightysparrow]

On 4/3/2019 at 1:57 PM, icemiser69 said:

They can still be used to cook over or to melt snow to be used for drinking water.

They (Kingdomshits) should be able to build fireplaces for heating purposes.  If Alexandria has the capacity to make windmills and other items with no prior experience other than using the book lady's books, I am sure she must have given them a  book on fireplace building 101.

When Michonne was at Kingdom, she should have been able to give  King Useless, and Queen Dumbshit some tips on how to survive one winter storm.  Michonne had to know more as the queen bee of Alexandria.   Other than act like Ms. Bossypants, Michonne had to know how things were accomplished, how things were built,  to make Alexandria flourish.

Hell, I have camped in my old scouts days in frigid weather and had no problem building a fire for warmth.  It isn't rocket science.

I think I'm going to use 'King Useless and Queen Dumbshit' from now on. 

It's easy to blame Michonne, but last time I checked King Useless and Queen Dumbshit were grown ass adults.  They liked all the adulation and the perks of being 'royalty' but they didn't seem to want to do the hard work.  Michonne might be 'Miss Bossypants' but her community is safe behind strong walls with roofs over their heads.  And she risked her own life and the lives of members of her community to bail The Kingdom out.

Why wasn't anybody in The Kingdom making sure that the buildings were being properly maintained?  Instead of building a dunking tank, why didn't they have an artisans' tent where people who knew how to do stuff, taught other people to do it?  Useless and Dumbshit KNEW what a waste of air their kid was; they should have sent someone else to learn blacksmithing.  How many valuable man hours (not to mention valuable men/women) were wasted searching for that stupid punk, instead of working to keep The Kingdom going.

The Kingdom was a going concern before Queen Dumbshit swanned in with her nose in the air.  If I lived in Alexandria, I'd be worried that she was going to suck the life out of my community next.  Once again, she (backed up by her sidekick Daryl) are going to force what they want down the rest of the community's throat.  Luke is probably not the only person who doesn't want Lydia around.  Should people have to live with her just because Queen Dumbshit wants it to be so?  Alexandria is already stuck with Negan for no earthly reason.  Why add another Jonah to the group?  It's not like Lydia has anything positive to bring to the table.  The only thing she appears to be good at is world-class moping.

Edited April 5, 2019 by mightysparrow

[Eulipian 5k]

What about those pans of coal taken from the main fire and used to heat up bedrooms that I learned about in 5th grade? Colonial Williamsburg, the tourist attraction, is "frozen" in the 1800s, couldn't they use the techniques from that century to survive in the Post ZA Kingdom?

I hope Elpha's group set up camp in Alligator Alley during their winter retreat to Florida. They can argue over who's territory is whose  with the lizards.

[Pixiebomb]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:52 AM, itsjustme said:

How far apart are these different communities anyway?

The Universal Question. 

[Pixiebomb]

On 4/2/2019 at 7:30 AM, Yodabeesh said:

They shuffled their way hundreds of miles to Hilton Head SC with their herd. Easy hike down I-95 which they can pick up south of DC/Alexandria.

Yes we do get our Snow Birds here. 

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Pixiebomb said:

The Universal Question. 

42!

(Miles, maybe?)

😄

[iMonrey]

Quote

Why wasn't anybody in The Kingdom making sure that the buildings were being properly maintained?  Instead of building a dunking tank, why didn't they have an artisans' tent where people who knew how to do stuff, taught other people to do it? 

I know Alexandria was supposed to be some kind of self-sustaining community even before the ZA, but what about Hilltop? From what I can see they are relying on windmill power. Couldn't the Kingdom do the same in the absence of a working boiler? Shouldn't they have been pursuing other energy sources long ago, when they first realized the boiler system was in need of repair? 

I suppose it's possible the plan is to return to the Kingdom next spring and try to rebuild but this episode made it look like they were abandoning it for good. 

[EllipticalAddicted]

Question:   How do the walkers know that they need to go south for the winter?   I would hazard a guess that their decision making skills are a big fat zero.   

Also, what does it say for the show that I laughed, stood up and cheered when the big reveal came?   For the first time since the show started, I chose to quit viewing and have purposefully missed the last three episodes.   The only reason why I went back and watched the "heads on a stick" episode was because I read that there were some shocking deaths....and I was glad.

Edited April 9, 2019 by EllipticalAddicted

[OoohMaggie]

4 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

How do the walkers know that they need to go south for the winter?

They don’t.

[AngelaHunter]

On 4/6/2019 at 12:38 PM, icemiser69 said:

If the distances between communities are really that far apart, anyone going to see a movie is going to have to find a place to stay before they go back home.

Yet, after Negan's Great Escape he walked to the Sanctuary in less than a day, or maybe in a few hours considering how much time he spent dawdling in Alexandria, with no one except the Brat spotting him. Ah, sweet Alexandria, the place where everyone knows your name and no one would think to lock a door.

4 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

The only reason why I went back and watched the "heads on a stick" episode was because I read that there were some shocking deaths....and I was glad.

I just felt relief that Tara and Prince Henry would no longer be on my screen. I really didn't know who the rest of them were at first. Not so shocking.

[Nashville]

SO - somebody asked me “Did anything memorable happen in TWD season finale?  I don’t recall.”  My response was twofold:

1. Immediate response: “That question is really kinda self-answering, if you think about it.”
2. Later: Coming back here to refresh my memory, because *I* wasn’t sure I remembered the season finale.

[nodorothyparker]

In the end, they managed a bigger winter than Game of Thrones had been threatening for eight seasons? 

[PurpleTentacle]

I don't see what the urgency about crossing through Alphas territory was about. You can easily go weeks without food. If you are on foot anyway it also doesn't matter if the storm piles up mountains of snow. You can make some improvised snow shoes and traverse to the next waystation that way.

Also how does Alpha's group survive the winter anyway? They can't exactly make fires amoung the dead. They should all be dead within a few days. Problem solved I guess. Only none of the writers care about simple logic.

On 4/1/2019 at 4:21 AM, tiredofwork said:

The absolute worse season ender in the 9 yrs this has been on the air.

True. I thought this short season and crappy final episode were due to covid, but looking at the dates of these posts: Nope, this was one year earlier. In this case I'm really baffled.