S03.E17: Chapter Fifty-Two: The Raid

[Bort]

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As Betty enlists Cheryl's help to infiltrate The Farm, Archie and Veronica help an ally from his past. Meanwhile, Jughead's attempt to put a stop to Riverdale's drug trade puts him on a collision course with Gladys. Finally, Hiram breaks some surprising news to Veronica.

Airdate: Wednesday, March 27, 2019

[WhosThatGirl]

Okay.. honestly I only have a few thoughts on this episode so here we go.

Adorable adorable Bughead scene in the opener. Adorable. Glad they are still together by this episodes end. Seriously, constantly feel the need to be thankful for that! I’m always awaiting a breakup for stupid reasons but I’m hoping wishing that they end this season as a couple.

clearly the farm is giving the joiners or potential joiners drugs to make them see dead people right? Because this show isn’t supernatural and if turns out to become like that.. I think I’m out.

Now that Bettys ending is meeting with Edgar, I’m really even more worried about her safety. I want to believe knowing what I know about the character that she wouldn’t join the cult but I’m unsure because it’s this show. And two I’m worried that she fake joins to get information and then something happens and they push her without her consent into cult rituals.

Also can we stop acting like Betty has a real reason to stop the cult now? The more they have characters join the more I’m kind of like “whatever”, or maybe that’s just me I know people here like Alice and Kevin and Cheryl but I’m completely over them in the series now and it’s hard for me to be upset they joined a cult. I’m upset for Betty because no matter what I totally see the season finale of her being locked in the cults headquarters and her being tortured. I mean considering the hq is now what the sisters once was, I fully expect the show to recreate the same scene when nuns were forcing fizzle rocks down bettys throat, only this time it’ll be her mother and sister and her best friend and her cousin. Good times.

I liked seeing Archie and Jughead team up against the the drug teens but again sadly like Betty and the cult, Jughead isn’t going to win against Gladys. Also.. I honestly wish he wasn’t to scared of her empty threats and would just tell FP. I think FP would definitely believe him, unless the show changes his character again. How many changes has he gone through this season? 

I do have to say though as someone who watches the YouTube channel cinema sins, when Jughead fell out of the window with Kurtz, I thought of “They survive that” Which that channel does whenever a character does something that would cause death and survives...  because really? Also love that fh seemed to have a broken bone or two but the next day Jughead was fine when confronting Gladys.

I don’t care about Veroncia and her family? I know a lot of people here aren’t into Varchie. I’m meh on them as I say but I definitely realized during her scenes with Archie I prefer them to hers and Reggie. I don’t see the big hot Veggie chemistry. I just don’t ever. When they are on screen I see the show forcing something. I didn’t understand her family scenes at all. The only thing I liked was her acknowledging that. It was boring though because more than likely by next episode she’ll be over it.

I’m really worried about bettys safety. I have to say that and the show is making me wait two weeks which is annoying, how am I supposed to survive my birthday if there isn’t a new Riverdale? 

Also this was meant to be short but it ended up not being one. I’ll probably have more thoughts later.

But again I’m worried about bettys safety.

[catrice2]

No Josie? 

[Advance35]

"I'm trying to find a lining of even tarnished silver....." I know she gets crap for the way she talks but I honestly like Veronica's dialogue.  Pretentious and out of touch.

I'm not HUGE on the Betty and Veronica friendship but I did think it was cute how Veronica let Evelyn hang her flyers at Pops, then looked at Betty and said "Of course I'll go with you."  It made me smile and considering I don't even especially like the Beronica friendship, that's an accomplishment.

Though Veronica's scene with Archie kind of displayed what I don't like about her character.  I sometimes feel like she lets herself get used.  Because her parents have money and clout she's like a genie in a bottle some.  Would they bother with Veronica if she didn't have money and connections to throw around.   Although maybe I'm bias, I myself, am not a giver.

That said, she is very much her Mother's daughter.  She's horrified at the things Hiram and Hermione have done, but they've groomed their Mija to take things in stride.  Neither Hiram nor Hermione regret the horrible things they've done to each other or other people.  Hiram handwaving all the times he tried to kill Archie and Hermione's indifference and refusing to apologize or express regret to Hiram about her own murder attempts.  I'm still not sure about Ronnie, I could see her ending up with a "bad hat" or a do gooder, I'm still not sure.

I was surprised she sent the fish to Hermione.  She was holding Hermione's hand and stormed into Hiram's Hotel all fired up.  She's like a new, modern day, Lucy Ricardo.  Her plans are outrageous, over the top and creative but seemingly destined to fall miserably apart.   This was one of the most teenage storylines Veronica's ever had.   Actually one of the most teenage storylines on the show at the moment.

Veronica's been underhanded, selfish, shallow, petty and cold, but for me, the most unforgivable thing the character has ever done, was pair that purple top with that greenish skirt. Both were gorgeous on their own but NOT together.  Someone should be fired for that ensemble.

But that coat she wore in her last scene with Hiram was exquisite.   And it looked like she was wearing a wonderful dress underneath.  MC and CM did very well in their scene.  We don't get to see Hiram express empathy often, or ever really.  He seemed sort of sorry that he couldn't give Veronica what she wanted.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Advance35

[WhosThatGirl]

I loved the beronica friendship moment. More of that but otherwise this episode just makes me worried for Betty. 

[tennisgurl]

Veronica desperately trying to keep her parents together was probably the most teenage plot this show has had in ages. I actually do feel bad for her, even if her parents splitting up really is probably for the best. I mean, Hermione tried to kill her husband twice now. Even by Riverdale standards, that takes work to come back from. Its not impossible, but they've got stuff to do.

God everyone is jumping on the farm bandwagon now, huh? The Coopers, Kevin, and now Cheryl? I had no idea that the powers of Chad Michael Murray went so far! Of course, there are literally 70000 cults in this town at this point, so I whats one more I guess? 

The little Veronica and Betty scene was nice, its been forever since they got a nice moment it feels like. And it was cool seeing some of Archie's prison friends, and that they got out of jail. I mean, really guys? Shipping a bunch of minors to an adult for profit jail so they can take part in your underage illegal fight club? I would say its over the top levels of villainy, but...

Archie and Jughead teaming up to fight the drug dealers was fun, even if the Serpents being some kind of police force is still just so ridiculous it makes my brain hurt. I guess its better than them just sitting around doing nothing I guess, when Jughead decided that this criminal gang should give up actual crime or whatever.

I missed Josie and Archie/Josie. Go figure.

[WhosThatGirl]

45 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Veronica desperately trying to keep her parents together was probably the most teenage plot this show has had in ages. I actually do feel bad for her, even if her parents splitting up really is probably for the best. I mean, Hermione tried to kill her husband twice now. Even by Riverdale standards, that takes work to come back from. Its not impossible, but they've got stuff to do.

God everyone is jumping on the farm bandwagon now, huh? The Coopers, Kevin, and now Cheryl? I had no idea that the powers of Chad Michael Murray went so far! Of course, there are literally 70000 cults in this town at this point, so I whats one more I guess? 

The little Veronica and Betty scene was nice, its been forever since they got a nice moment it feels like. And it was cool seeing some of Archie's prison friends, and that they got out of jail. I mean, really guys? Shipping a bunch of minors to an adult for profit jail so they can take part in your underage illegal fight club? I would say its over the top levels of villainy, but...

Archie and Jughead teaming up to fight the drug dealers was fun, even if the Serpents being some kind of police force is still just so ridiculous it makes my brain hurt. I guess its better than them just sitting around doing nothing I guess, when Jughead decided that this criminal gang should give up actual crime or whatever.

I missed Josie and Archie/Josie. Go figure.

Only two Coopers have joined, Betty has not. And I don’t tjbk she will. At least not with her consent, jury’s our on without her consent.

 Also Veronica and Betty has a nice moment when Veroncia told betty about Gladys and the moment in the miscall when veronica announced her parents divorce Betty hugged her.

Edited March 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

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clearly the farm is giving the joiners or potential joiners drugs to make them see dead people right? Because this show isn’t supernatural and if turns out to become like that.. I think I’m out.

I hope not: in reading about Victorian seances and Theosophic societies, they really pulled off some doozies with convincing people that they were talking to loved ones. Not just "there's somebody in the room who's missing someone" but super specific information they had to do a lot of work to get. Combine the same tactics, which the Farm is clearly using, with modern day tech and makeup skills and it's probably easier than expected to do the whole "here's your dead loved one who's not dead!" switch. 

Edgar clearly is gunning for Scientology levels of power, and I think Betty senses that. when she sat with him saying she wanted to "know everything," it was to lure him, as he's lured so many. And since he, like Betty, thinks he's "too smart" to fall for manipulation, she might just be able to defeat him in the end. Guys like Edgar are textbook narcissists: they have a pathological need for attention and admiration, but obtaining it through trickery from their marks isn't too much of a hit after a while. Having this Teen Girl Detective seemingly in his thrall is probably very, very tempting. (Also love how Evelyn is so nervous around him, so terrified to screw up.)

Well this one showed how very hard it can be to escape a system that's got a LOT invested in you staying right where you are. From Archie's Fight Club to Jughead and Gladys to the endless Farm machinations to Veronica's desperate attempts to keep her world from crumbling, some power systems seem impossible to shut down, while others simply peter out.

Things I liked amid the craziness:

Ex Sheriff Keller overseeing Archie's gym, so at least one responsible (ish) adult is around to make sure it isn't instantly turned into some kind of ridiculous out of JD version of the fight club that was happening in Juvie. However, you'd think he'd be interested in Elio sliming around. He knows damn well the guy's a Mob fixer. Also, does he even remember he's got a wife, stepdaughter, and SON?

Archie asking for Veronica's help and her agreeing with not one drop of angsty drama. These two don't hate each other, at all, and it was great to see two people still liking and respecting each other even if they're not dating.

Cheryl, until her brainwash, was her magnificent self and I hope she snaps out of this crap soon (where the hell is Toni? Does she know about any of this?) I like this character best when she's all This is Cheryl's World and I deign to let you live in it. 

Betty and Jughead continue to support each other's terrible agendas in the cutest way possible. (IS Betty staying there? Or with Vee? Or where?) 

I really think Jughead needs to pull the pin on the whole thing with his dad, if only to get the inevitable scene where FP takes him aside and goes " I KNOW your mom's the dealer, Jug; I lived with that woman for years. You think she's fooling me? Now QUIT with your independent study project before you blow this whole thing!" But man, Gladys sending her son into a shooting gallery, knowing the chances were high he could get killed, was ice cold even for this town. Although Jughead is apparently immortal and can both fall through glass windows from great heights and have 170 pound teenage boys dropped on him from stairwells to no ill effect, so maybe Archie's rubbing off on him.

Did Archie catch Kurtz there after he ran off, or what? 

The last scene with poor Baby Teeth was suitably creepy. If Edgar is behind the G&G gargoyle king setup I'd sure like to know what his endgame is.

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Snookums said:

I hope not: in reading about Victorian seances and Theosophic societies, they really pulled off some doozies with convincing people that they were talking to loved ones. Not just "there's somebody in the room who's missing someone" but super specific information they had to do a lot of work to get. Combine the same tactics, which the Farm is clearly using, with modern day tech and makeup skills and it's probably easier than expected to do the whole "here's your dead loved one who's not dead!" switch. 

Edgar clearly is gunning for Scientology levels of power, and I think Betty senses that. when she sat with him saying she wanted to "know everything," it was to lure him, as he's lured so many. And since he, like Betty, thinks he's "too smart" to fall for manipulation, she might just be able to defeat him in the end. Guys like Edgar are textbook narcissists: they have a pathological need for attention and admiration, but obtaining it through trickery from their marks isn't too much of a hit after a while. Having this Teen Girl Detective seemingly in his thrall is probably very, very tempting. (Also love how Evelyn is so nervous around him, so terrified to screw up.)

Well this one showed how very hard it can be to escape a system that's got a LOT invested in you staying right where you are. From Archie's Fight Club to Jughead and Gladys to the endless Farm machinations to Veronica's desperate attempts to keep her world from crumbling, some power systems seem impossible to shut down, while others simply peter out.

Things I liked amid the craziness:

Ex Sheriff Keller overseeing Archie's gym, so at least one responsible (ish) adult is around to make sure it isn't instantly turned into some kind of ridiculous out of JD version of the fight club that was happening in Juvie. However, you'd think he'd be interested in Elio sliming around. He knows damn well the guy's a Mob fixer. Also, does he even remember he's got a wife, stepdaughter, and SON?

Archie asking for Veronica's help and her agreeing with not one drop of angsty drama. These two don't hate each other, at all, and it was great to see two people still liking and respecting each other even if they're not dating.

Cheryl, until her brainwash, was her magnificent self and I hope she snaps out of this crap soon (where the hell is Toni? Does she know about any of this?) I like this character best when she's all This is Cheryl's World and I deign to let you live in it. 

Betty and Jughead continue to support each other's terrible agendas in the cutest way possible. (IS Betty staying there? Or with Vee? Or where?) 

I really think Jughead needs to pull the pin on the whole thing with his dad, if only to get the inevitable scene where FP takes him aside and goes " I KNOW your mom's the dealer, Jug; I lived with that woman for years. You think she's fooling me? Now QUIT with your independent study project before you blow this whole thing!" But man, Gladys sending her son into a shooting gallery, knowing the chances were high he could get killed, was ice cold even for this town. Although Jughead is apparently immortal and can both fall through glass windows from great heights and have 170 pound teenage boys dropped on him from stairwells to no ill effect, so maybe Archie's rubbing off on him.

Did Archie catch Kurtz there after he ran off, or what? 

The last scene with poor Baby Teeth was suitably creepy. If Edgar is behind the G&G gargoyle king setup I'd sure like to know what his endgame is.

Thanks for the info on cults and farms and stuff. Also yes the show is really playing this as a Scientology thing but clearly trying to avoid that actual group by name  so much.

I’m assuming Archie didn’t catch up with Kurtz as we would have gotten a scene about it, right?

I hope betty is playing Edgar but the promos don’t look too promising. I can keep going back and forth on what they are going to do with her. I’m really nervous about it all.

I hope fP knows what’s up with Gladys. Only because I don’t find her all that interesting. I don’t find this story at all interesting. I feel like there’s supposed to be some stakes here that Jughead really feels like he’d been breaking up something really special if he told his dad, but his mom has been back for how long? A month at most, right? If even that. It’s not like they’ve been a happy family for a few years now. Hell like three months before Gladys reappeared FP was hooking up with Alice here and there. It’s kind of a ridiculous story to me. I also feel like we’re supposed to believe FP would refuse Jughead telling him the truth about Gladys.. which again really show? I don’t know. It’s just dumb and it’s making me hate the storyline. It’s not all that interesting. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[the-grey-lady]

If Veronica says "family is the most important thing" one more damn time...

Gladys might be the worst parent on this show, which is really saying something. Or maybe she's forgotten she's supposed to be Jughead's mother.

[HunterHunted]

Hallway fights! Not just for Netflix.

Jughead has to spill the beans. FP can take it. There's no way that he'll be more devastated by this than the any number of times Jughead's life was in jeopardy including when Jughead was nearly beaten to death. I mean really?

Are all of Archie's juvenile detention pals supposed to be over 18? If not, they should be in school. They actually make way more sense as FP's junior deputies because they only have an existing loyalty to Archie.

The Farm is somehow manipulating everyone into believing that they can see a lost loved one? Ok.

[WhosThatGirl]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Hallway fights! Not just for Netflix.

Jughead has to spill the beans. FP can take it. There's no way that he'll be more devastated by this than the any number of times Jughead's life was in jeopardy including when Jughead was nearly beaten to death. I mean really?

Are all of Archie's juvenile detention pals supposed to be over 18? If not, they should be in school. They actually make way more sense as FP's junior deputies because they only have an existing loyalty to Archie.

The Farm is somehow manipulating everyone into believing that they can see a lost loved one? Ok.

Yeah the Gladys thing is making less and less sense right now when I keep thinking about it. As I said in an earlier post, Jughead telling FP really couldn’t destroy him that much. Gladys and J.B. have only been back a couple weeks at this point. I.. don’t understand? Unless they are trying to have it be a situation where Jughead thinks FP Wouldn’t believe him if he told him the truth about Gladys. Which is an annoyance I felt where I was scared that this is was maybe how they were going to have betty tell Jughead about the drugs and luckily they didn’t, so why would they go through that with FP and Jughead? Again as I said the stakes are aren’t that big right now and it makes the story boring. It’s just a lot of people not talking to each other.. which is sort of the theme for the season when you think about it so maybe it makes more sense. I mean let’s hope FP knows already and he’s just playing the waiting game for a reason we don’t know yet.

And yes I didn’t mention it’s nice that atom is helping out Archie in his gym, like that’s great and all, but maybe Tom shouldn’t be doing that and he should be checking on his actual son who has joined a cult and is giving open house tours for said cult and walking across fire and eating drug infused brownies. I’m just saying it’s greatbhes there for Archie but he he has a son who I guess he hasn’t checked in on in a while.

[Snookums]

He's also got a new wife and stepdaughter who apparently don't need any attention either!

And yeah, why the hell is Gladys so into both crime and being vindictive against Jug? Is it because he chose to stay with his then actively drinking/abusive dad rather than go set up her Fagin-in-Cleveland outfit with her and Jellybean? If all she cared about was money she could easily have franchised Fizzle Rocks or JIngle Jangle into a much bigger area where she was, so she's got some kind of revenge against Riverdale thing going. 

[HunterHunted]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And yes I didn’t mention it’s nice that Tom is helping out Archie in his gym, like that’s great and all, but maybe Tom shouldn’t be doing that and he should be checking on his actual son who has joined a cult and is giving open house tours for said cult and walking across fire and eating drug infused brownies. I’m just saying it’s great he's there for Archie, but he he has a son who I guess he hasn’t checked in on in a while.

Is Kevin living at home? Is Tom so into banging Sierra that he missed the fact Kevin  is in a cult?

Much like Gossip Girl, this show works better when the parents have on screen storylines.

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, Snookums said:

He's also got a new wife and stepdaughter who apparently don't need any attention either!

And yeah, why the hell is Gladys so into both crime and being vindictive against Jug? Is it because he chose to stay with his then actively drinking/abusive dad rather than go set up her Fagin-in-Cleveland outfit with her and Jellybean? If all she cared about was money she could easily have franchised Fizzle Rocks or JIngle Jangle into a much bigger area where she was, so she's got some kind of revenge against Riverdale thing going. 

Um he didn’t choose, she left him with FP and then refused to let him come live with her. She’s a great mother. I hate that the show doesn’t really acknowledge this information. It’s part Gladys fault Jughead is even in the serpents. Granted if he were with her he’s probably be running drugs as well but no it was never his choice, if she is mad he would chose FPS side that is on her for abandoning him. Again when you think about the Gladys it doesn’t make sense. She really does seem to actively hate her son, for reasons that don’t make any sort of sense because it’s of her own doing. 

And yeah I have no idea why Tom isn’t at all concerned about Kevin, I think we’re supposed to like that he’s helping Archie our with the gym and yeah that’s all great and stuff but then you’re reminded that Kevin is off giving tours of Scientology Lites headquarters and you kind of are like “why isn’t Tom all up in this?”

Edited March 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

I mean, you really can't blame the Farm for moving in on Riverdale, whose motto is apparently "Nothing But Low-Hanging Fruit."

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Snookums said:

I mean, you really can't blame the Farm for moving in on Riverdale, whose motto is apparently "Nothing But Low-Hanging Fruit."

Also I’m suspecting we will find out later on more adults are actually part of the cult.  Like it would explain why Tom isn’t all up in arms about Kevin being a part of  it, he’s in it too! 😉 

But I’m not sure what the end point is for the farm storyline.  I’m sure it will Involve a redemption of Alice of some kind but really? Into what? She’s never been decent so I guess were going to get Alice after cult which will probably Alice season one and yeah she was real great then.

Also.. at some point we have to connect these stories in some way, don’t we? There’s a whole lot of plots that haven’t meshed at all this season.

Edited March 28, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Wilpen]

- Betty/Veronica scene... so brief but so beautiful. Second scene at The Farm, too, was brief but at least they're now sharing some scenes together.  

- It's so funny because Evelyn absolutely knows there's no way on earth Betty's joining (willingly). The "interview" was all kinds of hilarious. 

- I'm so confused... in season 1, the insinuation was Gladys and Jellybean left Riverdale to get away from FP and his alcoholism/dead beat ways. Gladys makes FP and his alcoholism look like a toddler getting into trouble. Gladys is the worst and it was conjured up out of thin air. The story really lacks continuity. 

- It's clear TPTB are portraying Scientology = The Farm with Edgar as the leader but fall short of making it 100% obvious. Edgar is narcissist with sociopathic tendencies... as a Clinical Psychologist, that’s my take, LOL. 

- I just don't understand why Veronica is so desperate to keep her family together. She basically wanted to divorce her parents. Yes, it's true, divorce is tough for a child to endure, no matter the age, but it's just weird how Veronica is taking it so hard. She's worried about the wrong things. I mean, I could see her worried about her mother's safety (she sent the dead fish not even out of worry for her mother, just to keep them from divorcing, she basically used the protection angle as a card to play)... more like the side effects OF the divorce but not the actual divorce since that was set in stone to happen for a while now. She does need to lean on others like Betty and Jughead who have had it way worse. 

- Jughead just hanging out at Archie's, eating, lol, even commenting on eating is so fun. We need more of this! I also loved when they joined forces with the Serpents, Mad Dog, and the others in an attempt to take down the druggies in the apartment. 

- I like Keller connected to Archie's gym, so at least one adult is around to make sure it is clean and safe. However, does he know what his son is up to? He might want to check in with Kevin. 

- Archie asking for Veronica's help made me smile. They will reunite. Also, their "operation" worked out perfectly. Take that, crooked Gov.

- It was interesting to find out the real reason why Veronica dumped Archie. It wasn't for Reggie. She chose her family, period. I mean, we saw this overall but it was nice for Veronica to spell it out to the audience. More proof she will turn to Archie soon knowing she made a grave mistake choosing her family over Archie, who essentially will end up being her real family (along with Betty/Jughead). 

- I love how Betty had to get Cheryl a shake/malt in order for her to even listen to what she was requesting. Haha.  I also love Cheryl making fun of Jughead's hat. I have my issues with Cheryl but MP plays her so perfectly she just cracks me up sometimes. 

- Cheryl, until her brainwash, was interesting  (and I love the two cousins working together) but I hope her cult connection is short. Where is Toni? They were working things out, you'd think they'd be in a semi-honeymoon period again. Does she know about any of this? Would love to see Toni and Betty team up and save Cheryl. The thing is... we witnessed a hint of foreshadowing when Cheryl was telling Toni about Jason... it is very true... Cheryl has not truly gotten over losing her brother. She has so many emotional scars and pain deep inside of her. It's weird to say but this cult storyline might, in the end, help her finally heal from the loss of her brother. Not with The Farm helping her, but once she's free from the cult, she'll realize she needs to grieve and in a healthy way... finally. 

- I forgot about Jason telling Polly they were running away to The Farm. That is actually great continuity. 

- I know it's beyond ridiculous that FP is Sheriff and a gang would be undercover detectives but I think it's awesome. I rather see the Serpents use passion on worthy things instead of just hanging around being boring or doing bad stuff. 

- Betty and Jughead continue to demonstrate how perfect they are together. This is THE stable, solid as a rock relationship of the show. Don't mess with them, writers. They are too pure. 

- I really think Jughead needs to tell FP the truth. Gladys is evil allowing him to almost get killed. I don’t really understand her deal. Is this the same person who called Fred to help Archie and seemed concerned about her son? I mean, we saw her reject Jug when he called that one time (horrible) but overall she seemed to care about him slightly when they went to Toledo and now all the sudden she’s acting like she loathes him and wishes him death? What the heck.

- Did Archie catch Kurtz? 

- The last scene with poor Baby Teeth was creepy. 

- Theories on how The Farm makes its members "see" their dead loved ones... drugs have to be involved. Don’t think it’s supernatural. LR mentioned at a Con supernatural wasn’t on this show. Of course she might have just meant G&G but I don’t think it’s supernatural. Drugs and maybe even hypnotism. 

- Jughead's "this is the best pillow talk ever" was so cute. 

- CMM continues to have the perfect Cult Leader presence. He's brilliant.

  
 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Wilpen

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t get the CMM love so I can’t wait for the farm stuff to be over for a lot of other reasons but a big one that they casted him as their leader. Not into it. Sorry, thank you next.

[Advance35]

Quote

- It was interesting to find out the real reason why Veronica dumped Archie. It wasn't for Reggie. She chose her family, period. I mean, we saw this overall but it was nice for Veronica to spell it out to the audience. More proof she will turn to Archie soon knowing she made a grave mistake choosing her family over Archie, who essentially will end up being her real family (along with Betty/Jughead). 

Why couldn't the writers articulate this back when they broke up?  They could have moved both in separate directions without doing the hatchet job they chose to use on Veronica.  Sigh.   It was interesting to hear Veronica's outlook on Her and Archie as well as her view of her parents.   I've always said, it's been just the three of them for a long time, walking away from that safety net would not be easy.  Her parents, Hiram directly (Hermione in her own way) will almost always set fire to the other people in Veronica's life.  Hiram because of the sense of possession he seems to feel towards Veronica and Hermione because she very much wants to groom Veronica into a younger version of herself (implying Veronica should use sex to control Archie, a few times if I'm not mistaken).

The girl has a lot to unlearn.  Even with everything he's been through I might credit Archie as stronger and more experienced on an emotional level than Veronica.  I also think he really loved/loves Veronica, he never once blamed her for anything her family did to him or anyone else.

I hope the writing strengthens Veronica's ties to Riverdale and some of the people in it.  Maybe she'll feel more confident if she does come to see others as family.

Quote

- Betty and Jughead continue to demonstrate how perfect they are together. This is THE stable, solid as a rock relationship of the show. Don't mess with them, writers. They are too pure. 

LOL.  You will never let your guard down until the credits roll on the SERIES finale of Riverdale will you? LOL.  Well I don't think you need to worry.  I'm pretty sure Bughead does makes up the bedrock of Riverdale's fanbase.

Though I think they may have shot themselves in the foot with Falice.  I don't see anyone really clamoring for Falice anymore when, for a while, they were ahead of Choni in terms of popularity.  Apparently absence doesn't always make the heart grow fonder.

[WhosThatGirl]

Well MA and SU didn’t help With the Falice stuff. The way the promoted it in sm was off putting. I hope they don’t venture back there.

Also I Hope Bughead is safe. I worry all the time. You never know what this show what mighty do them.

Also I think there are a good number of Varchie shippers even if others don’t think so. Instagram would beg to differ.

[SourK]

If I had to pick the thing I hate most about these characters, it would be that, whenever they solve a problem related to abuse, they solve it for themselves and their closest friends, and leave everyone else to rot. The scene were Veronica and Archie confront the Governor about Prison Fight Club was basically a re-play of the scene where Betty (IIRC) threatened to tell on the Sisters for abusing kids if they didn't cooperate with her. In both cases, you should be telling on these people anyway! You should be going to the media. You should be going to the police. Why would you ever, ever, ever agree to keep this a secret in exchange for some favor that benefits only the people you know? I don't understand and I'm genuinely upset about it.

On 3/27/2019 at 8:59 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I do have to say though as someone who watches the YouTube channel cinema sins, when Jughead fell out of the window with Kurtz, I thought of “They survive that” Which that channel does whenever a character does something that would cause death and survives...  because really?

Not only did they survive but they were able to get up and keep running right away! I feel like movies and TV shows have warped our perception of how high is too high to fall from but, in this case, IIRC, nothing even broke their fall. They just smacked into the ground.

20 hours ago, Snookums said:

Edgar clearly is gunning for Scientology levels of power, and I think Betty senses that. when she sat with him saying she wanted to "know everything," it was to lure him, as he's lured so many. And since he, like Betty, thinks he's "too smart" to fall for manipulation, she might just be able to defeat him in the end. Guys like Edgar are textbook narcissists: they have a pathological need for attention and admiration, but obtaining it through trickery from their marks isn't too much of a hit after a while. Having this Teen Girl Detective seemingly in his thrall is probably very, very tempting. (Also love how Evelyn is so nervous around him, so terrified to screw up.) ...

Cheryl, until her brainwash, was her magnificent self and I hope she snaps out of this crap soon (where the hell is Toni? Does she know about any of this?) I like this character best when she's all This is Cheryl's World and I deign to let you live in it.

Agree with all of the above. However, Cheryl is the last person I would ever send to infiltrate a cult because she's so vulnerable. Like your scare quotes indicate, getting sucked into a cult isn't really about being "smart" so much as it's having the specific kind of vulnerability the cult's designed to exploit, which can vary depending on the cult. But, since Cheryl has no real support system, is estranged from her parents, lost her primary relationship recently (her brother), was recently abused by religious fanatics, just had a difficult coming out process, and all the other reasons... I wouldn't send her to the cult interviews, Betty. Veronica would be a much better choice. Ethel would even be a better choice.

10 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah the Gladys thing is making less and less sense right now when I keep thinking about it. As I said in an earlier post, Jughead telling FP really couldn’t destroy him that much. Gladys and J.B. have only been back a couple weeks at this point. I.. don’t understand? Unless they are trying to have it be a situation where Jughead thinks FP Wouldn’t believe him if he told him the truth about Gladys. Which is an annoyance I felt where I was scared that this is was maybe how they were going to have betty tell Jughead about the drugs and luckily they didn’t, so why would they go through that with FP and Jughead? Again as I said the stakes are aren’t that big right now and it makes the story boring.

I agree that this story doesn't make sense. But it's also not awesome that they're living in the house that Gladys bought and Jughead just burned down their old place. I also think there's a good chance FP wouldn't realistically care that Gladys is a criminal since he's a criminal too? I think maybe Jughead is the only one who is genuinely bothered by this? I don't know and I don't really care.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know the way the show is writing FP as of late they seem to be trying to make him good now and stuff. Like a changed good doer. He’s gone through like a hundred changes this season though so yeah it’s clnfusinf. Remembering when he was super odd and creepy at the start of this season enough that he was a contender for the g and g game stuff. He and Alice were so secretive about the whole thing.

Also yeah it’s bad that these characters don’t solve thing for everyone and only for themselves and their friends what bothers me most about this show is that we are continually expected to forget about the really terrible things characters do over and over. Like let’s be real Alice by the end of this season will be out of the cult and probably redeemed and Betty will forgive her, and not remember her mother’s terrible choices that she did to betty. But next season Alice will do something equally as awful. It’s so dumb. And it really upsets me. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Snookums]

Quote

- I just don't understand why Veronica is so desperate to keep her family together. She basically wanted to divorce her parents. Yes, it's true, divorce is tough for a child to endure, no matter the age, but it's just weird how Veronica is taking it so hard. 

I think her reaction, like most of the others this episode, was along the lines of "careful what you wish for." It's one thing to want a huge life change--even one that anybody with eyes could see NEEDS TO HAPPEN, LIKE, YESTERDAY--and quite another to confront the actual thing as it happens. No matter how many times you rehearse or fantasize about the scenario of Hiram being out of your life, when he actually says the words "there is no family anymore" and his idea of taking care of Hermione is annulling their marriage, negating the entire thing and rendering Veronica illegitimate in the process (SYMBOLISM), well. 

Who wouldn't be thrown off kilter? Who wouldn't at least think up a wild scheme to "make them come to their senses?" (this is Riverdale, so of course Veronica actually tries to pull it off, but still.) Reality is different for every person, and as sad and twisted as it may be, for her it's home.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Snookums

[thuganomics85]

Man, you know a show off the walls bonkers when Archie first says Mad Dog's name and I go "Oh, yeah!  Totally forgot this season started with Archie in the world's deadliest juvenile detention and was force to participate in underground fight clubs!"  Because for most shows, that would have been an insane storyline, but for this season of Riverdale, that falls behind the likes of cults, evil Dungeons & Dragon knock-off games, and a teenager running a Speakeasy under a diner, while dictating terms to her two parents that consist of the mayor and the gangsters to end all gangsters (or so we're told!)

Anyway, so now Cheryl has drunken The Farm's Kool-Aid (and since Kevin apparently is already their official tour guide, I'm sure it will be easy for her to move on up in the organization!) when Betty tries to have her go undercover, and get some dirt.  Pretty obvious that was all going to go south, but this was probably the most I liked Cheryl in ages, since they brought up her relationship with Jason and how much is death affected her.  While it doesn't excuse her horrible actions and attitude, it at least is a reminder that she has gone through hell, and clearly hasn't really addressed her issues.

Meanwhile, Jughead tries to basically make the Southside Serpents his own SWAT team, but after they mess up an actual bust from FP, Gladys uses it as a way to make FP decide the whole "deputizing a teenage gang" thing was a bad idea (which.... point, Gladys?  Kind of?)  But, instead, Jughead and the Serpents team up with Archie and his newly formed gang of former boxing inmates, and hit the Gargoyles hard, but fail to really change anything.  Nice try, though!  

Totally knew Veronica was the one who actually sent the dead fishes to Hermione, in an attempt to have Hiram reconcile.  Instead, he simply has the marriage annulled, so that she'll remained protected, but not get back together.  Tune in next week when Veronica lures both of them into a room, locks the door, and refuses to let them out until they get back together!

Since Gladys keeps bringing up that Jellybean isn't involved with any of this drug stuff, I'm now almost at the point where I wouldn't be surprised if it all ends with Jellybean suddenly pulling off a coup, overthrowing her mom, and being the new Drug Queen of Riverdale.  I really wouldn't put anything past this show! 

Chad Michael Murray is fun as Edgar, even though I still don't see him as Edgar, but just Chad Michael Murray, who has formed a cult, so he can finally have people who will tell him that A Cinderella Story was totally great, ya'll! (why yes, I'm going to keep diving into CMM's filmography and milk it for all it is worth!)

[methodwriter85]

On 3/29/2019 at 3:12 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Since Gladys keeps bringing up that Jellybean isn't involved with any of this drug stuff, I'm now almost at the point where I wouldn't be surprised if it all ends with Jellybean suddenly pulling off a coup, overthrowing her mom, and being the new Drug Queen of Riverdale.  I really wouldn't put anything past this show!  

I can TOTALLY see that happening on this show. Jellybean just oozes all kind of wrong. She reminds me of that little girl who went psycho on season 1 of The 100 and killed the prodigal son for some kind of schizophrenic reasons.

You are right that it's really funny that the storylines on this show move so fast that I completely forgot about Mad Dog and Archie's Shawshank Redemption movie rip-off, because so much happens in this show.

On 3/29/2019 at 3:12 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Chad Michael Murray is fun as Edgar, even though I still don't see him as Edgar, but just Chad Michael Murray, who has formed a cult, so he can finally have people who will tell him that A Cinderella Story was totally great, ya'll! (why yes, I'm going to keep diving into CMM's filmography and milk it for all it is worth!)

I think he's taken inspiration from Andrew Keegan, former 90's teen actor and now running a cult. Although Andrew's seems more of a hippy dippy commune kind, whereas I'm pretty sure people from the Farm are going to wind up drinking the Cool-aid.

What's weird is that I'm so used to seeing CMM squint(he is like Josh Hartnett in that they both tended to squint a lot) that it's weird to see him with wide, "you can trust me" eyes. I did have a brief crush on him in the early 2000's due to Gilmore Girls, although I was kind of over it by the time he got to One Tree Hill. (I wasn't really into any of the guys on the show except for Matt Barr, who had a brief but memorable turn on the show as Psycho Derek.)

[WhosThatGirl]

But don’t we already know J.B. is in this? She’s well aware of what Gladys does. There was the scene when they first came to Riverdale and they spoke of their plan. Her being the big mastermind wouldn’t be surprising. She already knows what her mom does and is in on it, they haven’t been writing her as innocent at all. Especially that one scene this episode when the Jones were having breakfast and she seemed well aware of tension with Jughead and Gladys and she was like “dad let’s watch cartoons!” She’s playing him. 

I think the reason they keep having Gladys being up that jellybean isn’t a part of it is because we as viewers know she is. They put in that scene where Gladys talked about their big plan and jellybean was all “and I have dad wrapped around my finger” or something so that it’s a shock that when Jughead and FP find out she in it all along. But as viewers we know she has been part of it, maybe I’m wrong and J.B. will overthrow Gladys but we have always known jellybean was in on it. 

And the only reason I can think of any Gladys moved her drug business here is that she caught wind of FP being Sheriff and she figured she could sell drugs easily under his reign and not get caught because he probably isn’t that great of a sheriff considering his past and all. Which, fair, I guess? But also as much as I like Tom keller, he wasn’t that great of a Sheriff either. Did he even solve anything big? The teens solved Jason’s murder and Betty solved the black Hood case. Pretty sure Gladys could have easily gotten her fizzle rock drug selling done then too. Probably more. There are probably other reasons why she came back to Riverdale but I think that’s one of them. Also I think she made a deal with Penny. Who will probably be returning at some point.

Edited March 31, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[Dobian]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 11:28 PM, the-grey-lady said:

Gladys might be the worst parent on this show, which is really saying something. Or maybe she's forgotten she's supposed to be Jughead's mother.

Add Gladys to the long list of parents on this show who interact with their kids as anything *but* parents.

[WhosThatGirl]

19 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Add Gladys to the long list of parents on this show who interact with their kids as anything *but* parents.

Well to be fair there’s really only one who acts like parent and that’s Archie’s dad. And his mom too when she is on an episode. Even Josie’s mom barley mothers her daughter and for how great Kevin’s dad is with Archie, let’s remember his actual son is walking across fire and all up

in a cult so his parenting skills are super sketchy right now too.