S09.E10: This Can Go One of Two Ways

[geauxaway]

Like it or not, Adam is still Aubree’s legal father.   Bottom line, if Chelsea dies, he gets the kid.  It is what it is.  His rights have not been termed.  Now, if Chelsea dies and he gets the kid, and then continues to fuck up and CPS comes im and take Aubree into care, then she would most likely go to Randy or Mary first, then on down the line.  These is the breaks, my friends.  I’m not saying I agree with this, but I know what I know.  Cole ain’t shit as far as Aubree’s custody is concerned.   He really shouldn’t have even gone to get Aubree, but clearly Donna was OK with it.  Legally he has no rights to obtain the kid.  She IS NOT HIS KID.  Chelsea needs to buck up and handle this without her savior Cole.  Again, I’m not saying it’s “right,” but it is the legal matter of it all.  

[Rebecca]

I’ve only done a little research but I guess it’s not always that cut and dry. I’m not sure what other states this includes (probably not SD, in any case..) but Chelsea should consider moving to Colorado...it’s not that far..

https://info.legalzoom.com/legal-rights-stepparents-vs-real-parents-21583.html

Sounds like this would qualify in “these jurisdictions.” I also think it helps the case that Cole is the involved father of Aubree’s brother and sister and Adam gave up custody of his other child. Plus, Aubree has basically never lived with Adam, except when he would mooch off Chelsea and live with her on and off early in Aubree’s life, whereas Cole has been consistently around and parenting the kids in their home for years. Adam can’t name her teacher, doctor or best friend. I bet Cole can, or at least knows some things like that about her.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Rebecca

[ghoulina]

Obviously we can only speculate about what went down at the Linds' house, since it wasn't filmed. But I tend to believe Cole's version of the story, as I've never really seen any dishonesty from him during all his years on the show. Whereas, the Linds have repeatedly violated custody agreements and court orders, defended their scumbag son. So I don't have a lot of faith in them. 

I believe Donna texted Chelsea because she knows what the court order says and wants to cover her ass. Now there's actual evidence that she "did the right thing". But then when Cole shows up, presumably in front of Aubree, she trys to guilt him. Or maybe she hoped they just wouldn't show up at all. It's late; they've got babies at home. 

I think she was calling their bluff. If she REALLY wanted to do the right thing, she'd send her stupid son away and honor the arrangement she has with her granddaughter. 

[Scarlett45]

16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I can't make heads or tails of what happened. I agree that everyone knows the parameters of the court order and that Cole told a selective version of events, but I don't get Donna either. If it's the one weekend a month she gets to have her granddaughter, why the hell wouldn't she tell Adam to leave? Was she covering her bases with the text but also hoping Chelsea wouldn't feel like driving over there to get Aubree? Or was Adam being a dick and refusing to go, giving her no choice? Then to ask Cole to bring her back after Adam left? (If that even happened). Unless Donna's in the same I.Q. bracket as Lois Griffin, none of this makes sense.

I think Donna was being passive aggressive and sending the text to cover her ass technically, but really didn’t expect them to pick Aubree up. Donna refuses to set boundaries with her son and wouldn’t put Aubree before him (even though Aubree is a minor and not the one with a criminal record). Adam may have shown up and Donna been too “scared” or “guilty” to ask him to leave. 

Im watching the episode now. It’s completly obvious that Chris likes to keep Kailyn “in queue” for easy sex and access to her pool. I don’t think he would hurt/mistreat any of the boys or anything like that (he’s got enough sense to bring Lincoln a gift) but Chris has NEVER been interested in being in a relationship with Kailyn. NEVER. Kailyn just stop “trying to make things work”- there was nothing to make work! You were the side chick that got pregnant, nothing more, nothing less.

You were married Kailyn- to Javi!! You didn’t want to be married any more, which was 100% your right; but what makes you think Chris, the guy you were cheating on your husband with is now obligated to marry you?!!!!

I can believe Kailyn is lonely- she is still a human being after all, but I think her best bet to find someone decent is 1. Drop Chris, 2. Invest in a year of therapy and a good vibrator (so no calling him up for sex) and THEN try dating someone. 

[Blissfool]

Maybe Donna secretly texted Chelsea. When Cole showed up, she didnt want Adam to see that "she had gone behind his back," so she acted surprised and confrontational. It's tough being the middle-man, y'all!

Of course, this is all speculation.

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Maybe Donna secretly texted Chelsea. When Cole showed up, she didnt want Adam to see that "she had gone behind his back," so she acted surprised and confrontational. It's tough being the middle-man, y'all!

Of course, this is all speculation.

This is also possible. 

[Rebecca]

1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

Maybe Donna secretly texted Chelsea. When Cole showed up, she didnt want Adam to see that "she had gone behind his back," so she acted surprised and confrontational. It's tough being the middle-man, y'all!

Of course, this is all speculation.

That’s a good point! She may be afraid to offend Adam for fear he’ll cut them out and disappear. That probably sounds like a win to most of us but she is his mother and loves him, somewhat inexplicably. Adam is also an addict so maybe he only shows up randomly on occasion and she was just happy he came there and wasn’t dead. I wish we knew more about Donna. It’s hard to assign motivations and feelings to someone when we don’t “know” them at all.

[geauxaway]

Is Adam an only child?

[Rebecca]

4 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Is Adam an only child?

Massive digging has led to the fact that Adam has at least one actual brother. He’s 29 (but so is Adam?  Is he a twin?! EDIT: Sam is actually 28, I think the thing below says 29 because he turns 29 this year still.) and named Sam. He’s newly married and lives in Phoenix. I found his wife’s Instagram, she is Brazilian. They got married in Brazil and it looks like Adam didn’t attend (there are pics of the rest of the family). They also had a wedding in SD a year ago and Aubree was there! Looks like she was the flower girl, the wife tagged Chelsea, she and Chelsea follow each other too. It doesn’t look like Adam attended that wedding either. (I don’t think I should link to her page because she’s not on the show or anything.) Some proof it’s his brother:

EDIT: There’s definitely at least one (much...I think he’s 38/39) older brother (Darren) too, who is married with 3 kids. I found his wife's Facebook but again, I don’t think I’m allowed to link it. This older brother is kinda HOT! He’s been married for 16 years and they look extremely normal in every way. (I’m an obsessive researcher with no plans for 3 more hours...I’m going to learn what I can about these mysterious Linds.) 

EDIT 2: Another older brother. They all seem so normal. What the hell happened to Adam? 

Here’s Robert, since this is public and widely accessible: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=204776160

He’s 31 and his bio on that site states that Donna and Vern have 4 kids - Adam, Sam, Darren and Rob. His bio also says that his brother, Sam, is (was, because this bio is from 2011) in college and plays(/played) baseball at school too. So all the other brothers are presumably college graduates. Adam is really the only absolute fuck up! From what I can tell the other three have had no issues. And no teen pregnancies. Here’s another article about Rob, he talks a little about his upbringing: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=205135595

EDIT 3: Wow, here’s Sam, his younger brother, since this is also publicly available: http://www.vaquerosports.com/sports/bsb/2017-18/releases/20170908wj83d7 He’s the new coach, as of 2017, of his old college’s baseball team. He’s also better looking than Adam! Apparently he was an amazing baseball player during his time at the school and played professionally (see article)! The whole thing practically is about what a hard worker Sam is. His bio on the college site: http://vaquerosports.com/sports/bsb/coaches/Jon_Wente?view=bio (looks like the wrong link but it’s not...no clue why it says Jon Wente.) Another article about him: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.argusleader.com/amp/12903201 This all probably really bugs Adam!

I’m really starting to think that Adam is the problem, not the Linds in general...otherwise the other sons would be messy as hell too. I wonder if Donna is just so flabbergasted about Adam and his behavior that she doesn’t know what to do? She’s definitely fucked up in her behavior regarding him but I have more empathy knowing that the other three aren’t like Adam. Sometimes bad kids happen to good people, I’m more inclined to think there’s some of that going on here now. I’m shocked, frankly, by this information, I would have assumed at least one of the other brothers would be “an Adam” too. 

I wonder how Adam gets along with his three much better looking, far more successful, hard working, normal life living brothers? Not well, I’m assuming.

Too long, didn’t read: He has 3 normal, successful brothers. 😆 

EDIT AGAIN: I’m at a grill out and since everyone is watching the stupid NCAA crap I’ve been in the corner still researching Linds... 🤓 #LiveYourBestLife

Anyway, I just had to mention that 2 of the brothers are married to women named variant spellings of Chelsea!! How weird would it have been if Adam and Chelsea married?! 3 out of 4 brothers with the same wife’s name. Weird! Is that the only name in S.D.? So anyway, all 3 of Adam’s brothers are also married and 2 have kids.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Rebecca
Clarity, removed some unnecessary info

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Maybe Donna secretly texted Chelsea. When Cole showed up, she didnt want Adam to see that "she had gone behind his back," so she acted surprised and confrontational. It's tough being the middle-man, y'all!

Of course, this is all speculation.

I hadn't thought of that. Very likely possibility. From all we've seen from her, it seems like she's the type who coddles her son, makes excuses for him; and she wouldn't want to make him mad and be perceived as "siding" with Chelsea. 

[Mkay]

8 hours ago, Rebecca said:

Massive digging has led to the fact that Adam has at least one actual brother. He’s 29 (but so is Adam?  Is he a twin?! EDIT: Sam is actually 28, I think the thing below says 29 because he turns 29 this year still.) and named Sam. He’s newly married and lives in Phoenix. I found his wife’s Instagram, she is Brazilian. They got married in Brazil and it looks like Adam didn’t attend (there are pics of the rest of the family). They also had a wedding in SD a year ago and Aubree was there! Looks like she was the flower girl, the wife tagged Chelsea, she and Chelsea follow each other too. It doesn’t look like Adam attended that wedding either. (I don’t think I should link to her page because she’s not on the show or anything.) Some proof it’s his brother:

EDIT: There’s definitely at least one (much...I think he’s 38/39) older brother (Darren) too, who is married with 3 kids. I found his wife's Facebook but again, I don’t think I’m allowed to link it. This older brother is kinda HOT! He’s been married for 16 years and they look extremely normal in every way. (I’m an obsessive researcher with no plans for 3 more hours...I’m going to learn what I can about these mysterious Linds.) 

EDIT 2: Another older brother. They all seem so normal. What the hell happened to Adam? 

Here’s Robert, since this is public and widely accessible: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=204776160

He’s 31 and his bio on that site states that Donna and Vern have 4 kids - Adam, Sam, Darren and Rob. His bio also says that his brother, Sam, is (was, because this bio is from 2011) in college and plays(/played) baseball at school too. So all the other brothers are presumably college graduates. Adam is really the only absolute fuck up! From what I can tell the other three have had no issues. And no teen pregnancies. Here’s another article about Rob, he talks a little about his upbringing: http://www.georgiastatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12700&ATCLID=205135595

EDIT 3: Wow, here’s Sam, his younger brother, since this is also publicly available: http://www.vaquerosports.com/sports/bsb/2017-18/releases/20170908wj83d7 He’s the new coach, as of 2017, of his old college’s baseball team. He’s also better looking than Adam! Apparently he was an amazing baseball player during his time at the school and played professionally (see article)! The whole thing practically is about what a hard worker Sam is. His bio on the college site: http://vaquerosports.com/sports/bsb/coaches/Jon_Wente?view=bio (looks like the wrong link but it’s not...no clue why it says Jon Wente.) Another article about him: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.argusleader.com/amp/12903201 This all probably really bugs Adam!

I’m really starting to think that Adam is the problem, not the Linds in general...otherwise the other sons would be messy as hell too. I wonder if Donna is just so flabbergasted about Adam and his behavior that she doesn’t know what to do? She’s definitely fucked up in her behavior regarding him but I have more empathy knowing that the other three aren’t like Adam. Sometimes bad kids happen to good people, I’m more inclined to think there’s some of that going on here now. I’m shocked, frankly, by this information, I would have assumed at least one of the other brothers would be “an Adam” too. 

I wonder how Adam gets along with his three much better looking, far more successful, hard working, normal life living brothers? Not well, I’m assuming.

Too long, didn’t read: He has 3 normal, successful brothers. 😆 

EDIT AGAIN: I’m at a grill out and since everyone is watching the stupid NCAA crap I’ve been in the corner still researching Linds... 🤓 #LiveYourBestLife

Anyway, I just had to mention that 2 of the brothers are married to women named variant spellings of Chelsea!! How weird would it have been if Adam and Chelsea married?! 3 out of 4 brothers with the same wife’s name. Weird! Is that the only name in S.D.? So anyway, all 3 of Adam’s brothers are also married and 2 have kids.

Donna also has a Facebook.  I remember finding it a yr or so ago.  

[Rebecca]

2 hours ago, Mkay said:

Donna also has a Facebook.  I remember finding it a yr or so ago.  

I found one too but you can only see one picture of her and her husband and you can’t even see her friends, lol. There’s about 15 for Adam...why the hell would anyone want to catfish and pick him to pretend to be? *shudder*

[TheRealT]

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I hadn't thought of that. Very likely possibility. From all we've seen from her, it seems like she's the type who coddles her son, makes excuses for him; and she wouldn't want to make him mad and be perceived as "siding" with Chelsea. 

That's part of what I meant with my previous comments about the "weird dynamic" with Aubree not being allowed to be at family gatherings with Adam. It's likely very hard for Donna, (presumably) a traditionally-valued woman who has a son who's a drug addict/fuck-up who has a daughter whom Donna loves/wants to be part of her family. Donna is likely happy/relieved when Adam shows up for a family gathering/to see his daughter seeming (at least relatively) sober, behaving appropriately, etc. Not only does that make Donna feel good, but she genuinely believes that it's good for Aubree.

It's likely that Donna's greatest fear is that Adam will die from a drug overdose/car accident while he's intoxicated/whatever drug-related cause and that, from her perspective, that would also be a terrible tragedy for Aubree. So she wants to prevent that outcome (maybe Adam having some positive experiences with Aubree at family gatherings will help!), or, if that's not possible, to at least give Aubree some positive memories of times with her dad/her paternal family. In addition to her fears that Adam will die young, Donna is also probably concerned that Chelsea/Cole will somehow succeed in cutting the Linds out of Aubree's life (whether Adam is alive or not). So she's invested in strengthening Aubree's connection to the Linds (which, in Donna's mind, includes a connection to Adam) however she can.

It's undeniable that the Linds aren't as hard on Adam as some think they should be, but I think it's pretty standard for drug addicts' families to be mixed-up/inconsistent/pained/etc. about how to deal with their addict relatives. To me, it's not so "outré" for an addict's family to want to find some way to keep the addict's child in their fold along with the addict. That's "right" or "reasonable" in some situations and "wrong" or "unreasonable" in others. And all of that is subjective. To me, empirical evidence pretty clearly indicates that it's best for children to help them have as positive a relationship as possible with their parents/families, regardless of whether the family members "deserve" it or not.

[lilmarysunshine]

OK....is the adoption talk just about a storyline or a way to pretend Aubree's not Adam's or both?  I know Mary Houska, Esq. keeps bringing it up but why won't Chelsea just ask the attorney SHE ALREADY HAS regarding it?  Because really how would that change Aubree's life at all? It really wouldn't because in every practical sense, Cole plays the role of her father. He lives with her. He takes her to school. He provides for her. He does daddy-daughter dances.

They got the name change and it just wasn't good enough so Mary has to keep talking about Chelsea dying as an excuse for Cole to adopt Aubree. 

[TheRealT]

2 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

OK....is the adoption talk just about a storyline or a way to pretend Aubree's not Adam's or both?  I know Mary Houska, Esq. keeps bringing it up but why won't Chelsea just ask the attorney SHE ALREADY HAS regarding it?  Because really how would that change Aubree's life at all? It really wouldn't because in every practical sense, Cole plays the role of her father. He lives with her. He takes her to school. He provides for her. He does daddy-daughter dances.

They got the name change and it just wasn't good enough so Mary has to keep talking about Chelsea dying as an excuse for Cole to adopt Aubree. 

I feel like the "adoption talk" is mostly a storyline. I would assume that Chelsea has discussed the issue of what could/is likely to happen with custody of Aubree in the event of Chelsea's death with her attorney, but they haven't revealed any of that on the show. She has also almost certainly discussed how/whether Cole could adopt Aubree with her attorney, but, again, none of that has been on the show. So it's all "fake drama" for the cameras, except for how their asking Aubree about it on-camera is real.

And, hey, it occurs to me now that that might be a "bargaining chip" with Adam to ensure what's best for Aubree. Chelsea could offer to allow Adam supervised visits with Aubree at Lind family gatherings in exchange for him legally agreeing to let Aubree stay with Cole/Chelsea's family in the event of Chelsea's death.

[Adiba]

8 hours ago, TheRealT said:

That's part of what I meant with my previous comments about the "weird dynamic" with Aubree not being allowed to be at family gatherings with Adam. It's likely very hard for Donna, (presumably) a traditionally-valued woman who has a son who's a drug addict/fuck-up who has a daughter whom Donna loves/wants to be part of her family. Donna is likely happy/relieved when Adam shows up for a family gathering/to see his daughter seeming (at least relatively) sober, behaving appropriately, etc. Not only does that make Donna feel good, but she genuinely believes that it's good for Aubree.

It's likely that Donna's greatest fear is that Adam will die from a drug overdose/car accident while he's intoxicated/whatever drug-related cause and that, from her perspective, that would also be a terrible tragedy for Aubree. So she wants to prevent that outcome (maybe Adam having some positive experiences with Aubree at family gatherings will help!), or, if that's not possible, to at least give Aubree some positive memories of times with her dad/her paternal family. In addition to her fears that Adam will die young, Donna is also probably concerned that Chelsea/Cole will somehow succeed in cutting the Linds out of Aubree's life (whether Adam is alive or not). So she's invested in strengthening Aubree's connection to the Linds (which, in Donna's mind, includes a connection to Adam) however she can.

It's undeniable that the Linds aren't as hard on Adam as some think they should be, but I think it's pretty standard for drug addicts' families to be mixed-up/inconsistent/pained/etc. about how to deal with their addict relatives. To me, it's not so "outré" for an addict's family to want to find some way to keep the addict's child in their fold along with the addict. That's "right" or "reasonable" in some situations and "wrong" or "unreasonable" in others. And all of that is subjective. To me, empirical evidence pretty clearly indicates that it's best for children to help them have as positive a relationship as possible with their parents/families, regardless of whether the family members "deserve" it or not.

I am not made of stone when it comes to addict's families, particularly parents/mothers wanting to keep a connection with their addict child and any children of said addict. I get it. Hope springs eternal in a parent's heart.

In my own situation with my grandchild, I do not blame his other grandmother for having hope and wanting her son to get his shit together (opioids) and be a good father. As of now, my daughter (and I) trust her to supervise any visits. I wish my grandson were included more in family gatherings. However, no one should put my grandson's safety at risk in order to have the illusion of one big, happy family or to use my grandchild as motivation for the addict to get sober. And I do sincerely hope that he gets sober--for his sake, his family's sake, and for my grandson's sake.

However, if it has been determined through past experience that Adam should only be around Aubree if supervised by an objective authority. so be it. If the Linds had not let Aubree's safety be at risk in the past, the judge likely would have allowed them to supervise Adam's visits with Aubree.

[lilmarysunshine]

2 hours ago, Adiba said:

However, if it has been determined through past experience that Adam should only be around Aubree if supervised by an objective authority. so be it. If the Linds had not let Aubree's safety be at risk in the past, the judge likely would have allowed them to supervise Adam's visits with Aubree.

Didn't they let Adam take Aubree places while she was supposed to be under their supervision? And him driving with Aubree is probably their biggest fear because of his driving history. 

Seeing that the rest of their family seems pretty normal was surprising to me. Maybe he really just is the black sheep but they need to decide if Aubree comes before him or if she doesn't. Seems to me they could have just said "Hey, Adam -- we have Aubree this weekend. You'll have to come back another time."  Maybe if Chelsea felt like she could trust them again, she'd be OK with them supervising visits with him but they have to earn that trust back after violating it previously.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, Adiba said:

I am not made of stone when it comes to addict's families, particularly parents/mothers wanting to keep a connection with their addict child and any children of said addict. I get it. Hope springs eternal in a parent's heart.

In my own situation with my grandchild, I do not blame his other grandmother for having hope and wanting her son to get his shit together (opioids) and be a good father. As of now, my daughter (and I) trust her to supervise any visits. I wish my grandson were included more in family gatherings. However, no one should put my grandson's safety at risk in order to have the illusion of one big, happy family or to use my grandchild as motivation for the addict to get sober. And I do sincerely hope that he gets sober--for his sake, his family's sake, and for my grandson's sake.

However, if it has been determined through past experience that Adam should only be around Aubree if supervised by an objective authority. so be it. If the Linds had not let Aubree's safety be at risk in the past, the judge likely would have allowed them to supervise Adam's visits with Aubree.

2 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Didn't they let Adam take Aubree places while she was supposed to be under their supervision? And him driving with Aubree is probably their biggest fear because of his driving history. 

Seeing that the rest of their family seems pretty normal was surprising to me. Maybe he really just is the black sheep but they need to decide if Aubree comes before him or if she doesn't. Seems to me they could have just said "Hey, Adam -- we have Aubree this weekend. You'll have to come back another time."  Maybe if Chelsea felt like she could trust them again, she'd be OK with them supervising visits with him but they have to earn that trust back after violating it previously.

I agree with you both. Adam has had YEARS of bad & criminal behavior including driving under the influence, and it has been YEARS of the Linds (parents) making excuses for him and allowing him to do things like drive Aubree when he’s not supposed to. 

NO. Just no. No excuse. If Donna or her husband want to get in car with their addict son they are grown and it’s their perogrative but I don’t blame Chelsea one whit for not allowing Aubree to be around Adam outside of the visitation center. 

In my mind Aubree is the dependent being who NEVER did anything to hurt anyone, she comes before Adam end of story. 

[UnikornRainbowz]

Way to ruin Nova's dinner there on vacation, she was happy to talk about what she did that day then BAM nonsense from all the adults about names.

Leah is a terrible parent. She has created a literal monster in that Grace.