S09.E03: Hurricane

[Scarlett45]

21 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And if the defense went from "she's doing the best she can" to "she didn't have a supportive man to help her," well...

Yeah no I would never say such a thing. 

 

You can only parent adults if they WANT to be parented, once they are of the age of majority, unless they have a disability that prohibits them from ever living independently you cannot reward “misbehavior” ESPECIALLY when said misbehavior hurts other family members (like Jace). Hind sight is 20/20, Barb cannot fix the past but she doesn’t have to keep repeating the cycle.

[Dance4Life]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:53 AM, politichick said:

I don't like her speaking out against Nathan's family, either, but I think she's working overtime to keep things calm so that she and Jace can have some semblance of a relationship with the toxic Jenelle. 

The scene with Nova and her father was nice and he actually gave her some good daddy advice. I don't like calling children "Mama" either, but I think that's part of their culture.

Leah should have gotten an advocate years ago!

Kailyn: desperate much? Chris is never, ever going to respect her, especially after hearing that garbage she was spewing last night. Is this sister she spoke of Suzi's daughter or the father's from his Texas live?

 No, it is not part of Puerto Rican culture. We find it vulgar to call little kids Mami or Papi because when adults use it on each other it is Puerto Rican sexual slang.

It means hot sexy girl who is usually DTF.

So, why would anyone call their little girl that?

Similar, to when a grown woman calls their partner...Daddy.   It is just too close to sexual incest.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Dance4Life
Glad you understood typo ‘nicest’.....for incest..Lol!

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 6:53 PM, KittyKat133 said:

Briana is a cold hearted bitch. I would’ve been hysterical leaving my kid crying like that the first day of school!

Whoah!  Coming in hot, there.   My kids used to cry when I left them at daycare.  You know what?  Literally 2 minutes later I'd get a text picture of them happily playing from their teacher.  Kids cry.  Experienced mothers know this and are able to tell when their kid will be okay and when they won't.  Her becoming hysterical would've done nothing whatsoever to help the situation.  In fact, it would have made it 10 times worse.

I talk a lot of shit about Briana for various reasons, but I thought she acted totally appropriately (with the exception of bringing a camera crew to Nova's first day when it's obvious Nova is uncomfortable with attention on her) at the drop off.

Edited February 2, 2019 by lezlers

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:27 AM, alexa said:

I am not watching, and only follow here, but as to a group taking a kid to school--I am sure most schools would prefer they not do that.  lol.  It is already a big day for them getting through the first day.  In our school district, they purposely have an open house on an evening the week before school so the kids can bring their supplies, the parents can meet the teachers, etc.  All of this so that the first day of school is just the child going to school, not a group of people.

My son is in the first grade and they actually had the morning planned out to include parents, to the point where I went just because I didn't want my son to feel left out being the only one WITHOUT someone there.   So I think it's sort of expected now.

[alexa]

9 minutes ago, lezlers said:

My son is in the first grade and they actually had the morning planned out to include parents, to the point where I went just because I didn't want my son to feel left out being the only one WITHOUT someone there.   So I think it's sort of expected now.

I am sure schools vary in what they do. I am sure either way the teachers prefer not to have the first day be parent day. Lol

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:51 AM, DangerousMinds said:

I believe Barb did go to therapy herself a few years ago and learned at least a few techniques that were useful for being calmer and dealing more rationally with Jenelle. Small victories, maybe. I do know Barb’s son suffers from schizophrenia, and the parent can not be blamed for that.

True, but a parent can choose not to have her (grand)son around that schizophrenic adult who is in between halfway houses, yet Barb failed to do that.   A parent can also choose to refrain from doing things such as saying "he's been so BAD.  He's really BAD.  I told him if he doesn't stop being BAD he can't live here anymore!" which she admitted to saying to Jace a few seasons ago.  

I give Barb no passes.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

True, but a parent can choose not to have her (grand)son around that schizophrenic adult who is in between halfway houses, yet Barb failed to do that. 

I don’t believe that because someone suffers from schizophrenia, or another mental illness/disability they are prohibited from having familial relationships (even those with younger members of the family/kids). Colin isn’t a leper, and he’s been in treatment a long time. Barb didn’t let him take Jace out on a joy ride, they were all together.

If she hadn’t cared for Colin before his next placement she would be criticized for throwing her son to the wolves and abandoning him for something that isn’t his fault (or hers). 

[Christina87]

34 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t believe that because someone suffers from schizophrenia, or another mental illness/disability they are prohibited from having familial relationships (even those with younger members of the family/kids). Colin isn’t a leper, and he’s been in treatment a long time. Barb didn’t let him take Jace out on a joy ride, they were all together.

If she hadn’t cared for Colin before his next placement she would be criticized for throwing her son to the wolves and abandoning him for something that isn’t his fault (or hers). 

This, plus I think it is soooo good for kids to be exposed to people with disabilities as much as they can. Hopefully interacting with Colin teaches Jace empathy and tolerance. Now, if Barb was sending Jace out in a car with Colin or something like that, I'd side eye the hell out of that situation, but we don't know what the amount of interaction between them was. It's a good lesson for Jace to learn that even though Colin says strange things, or acts differently at times, he is family and they love him unconditionally.

I think barb is far from perfect, though trying the best she can, and we can all disagree about where that line is, but I do think she would protect Jace if Colin were likely to hurt him. The main difference I see in Barb is that she has genuine emotions and cares for others, unlike Jenelle who seems to be a sociopath. While they have some of the same bad habits, like yelling, Barb seems like a frustrated human, while Jenelle seems like the most heartless turd ever. I do think barb was a much worse parent in the early days, and whether that was due to stress, being overworked, having Jenelle under her roof, or that she's since started going to therapy, is anyone's guess. and I definitely blame Jenelle's dad for over 50% of how bad the kids turned out, as they have half of his genes (and dude sounds like a sociopath too), saw him abuse their mom, and then he abandoned them. It was just a no-win situation for barb.

Just imagine if barb herself had grown up in a well-off family where people behaved civilly, made a difference choice in partner initially, and hadn't had to be a single mom holding a chaotic family together alone. She would have had the tools to succeed, and her best would have likely been good enough. She's not a bad person, like Jenelle is, but just sorely needed guidance with parenting that she never got. Obviously her best wasn't good enough the way things did turn out, but everyone has their different opinions about just how much it falls short. 

[Polliwollidoodle]

6 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I think barb is far from perfect, though trying the best she can, and we can all disagree about where that line is, but I do think she would protect Jace if Colin were likely to hurt him. The main difference I see in Barb is that she has genuine emotions and cares for others, unlike Jenelle who seems to be a sociopath. While they have some of the same bad habits, like yelling, Barb seems like a frustrated human, while Jenelle seems like the most heartless turd ever. I do think barb was a much worse parent in the early days, and whether that was due to stress, being overworked, having Jenelle under her roof, or that she's since started going to therapy, is anyone's guess. and I definitely blame Jenelle's dad for over 50% of how bad the kids turned out, as they have half of his genes (and dude sounds like a sociopath too), saw him abuse their mom, and then he abandoned them. It was just a no-win situation for barb.

 

Yes. I think I feel for Barb because I can see she is clearly at her wit's end which implies that she has a wit and cares.  I used to kind of feel for Jenelle but she repeatedly does stupid hateful hurtful things and then whimpers about it. I truly find her eyes to have no sign of life or humanity behind them.

[Christina87]

4 hours ago, mayvenne said:

Yes. I think I feel for Barb because I can see she is clearly at her wit's end which implies that she has a wit and cares.  I used to kind of feel for Jenelle but she repeatedly does stupid hateful hurtful things and then whimpers about it. I truly find her eyes to have no sign of life or humanity behind them.

I agree! I felt for Jenelle a little bit the first season, when barb yelled at her so much and constantly nit picked everything she did with jace. Now, watching it again, I'd bet $1000 that Jenelle was only helping with Jace for the cameras...ESPECIALLY when you consider that she was horrible at the end of her 16 and pregnant, and basically said barb was jace's sole caregiver. I doubt she gave a damn for a short time; putting on a show is more likely, because of backlash from her 16+P. Then, when you have a routine with a baby, but someone is messing up his routine for the cameras, I can see why you might be pissed. Yes, it was petty to pick on Jenelle for every little thing (the outfit's too big!) but I can see why barb would have felt resentful that Jenelle was playing mother of the year for the cameras, yet didn't even know how to take care of Jace. I'm also betting barb tried to teach her, but she had no interest before the cameras came. Barb didn't need to worry, though, because by the end of the first season, Jenelle was basically attached at the hip to keiffer, so no one in their right mind would have thought Jenelle was a good mom. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Christina87

[HeySandyStrange]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t believe that because someone suffers from schizophrenia, or another mental illness/disability they are prohibited from having familial relationships (even those with younger members of the family/kids). Colin isn’t a leper, and he’s been in treatment a long time. Barb didn’t let him take Jace out on a joy ride, they were all together.

If she hadn’t cared for Colin before his next placement she would be criticized for throwing her son to the wolves and abandoning him for something that isn’t his fault (or hers). 

Yes, it's a pretty big misconception that people with schizophrenia are somehow dangerous. Truth is, they are more dangers to themselves, if anything, and aren't anymore violent then most people, mentally ill or not. Schizophrenia is no joke, I have a lot of compassion for Colin. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a safer, better person for Jace to be around then UBT and his birther.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Yes, it's a pretty big misconception that people with schizophrenia are somehow dangerous. Truth is, they are more dangers to themselves, if anything, and aren't anymore violent then most people, mentally ill or not. Schizophrenia is no joke, I have a lot of compassion for Colin. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a safer, better person for Jace to be around then UBT and his birther.

Ditto. Also they were at home playing video games and eating- not you know, playing with firearms like they do on the land. 

[jacksgirl]

Barb will do almost anything to get/keep Jenelle in her life. Nuff said. 

 

Yes in a perfect world Ali would have the same aide year in and out. Maybe this aide didn't want to work with Ali anymore Perhaps she prefers a change-of-pace maybe she prefers to work with older kids or younger kids. I've been in public schools for years and have yet to see an aide go all the way through an elementary school with the same child. Aides are not well paid. If Ali has a kind/patient person working with her, she is lucky. If you aren't happy Leah, you can send the girlses to private school or homeschool them.

[Bridget]

54 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Barb will do almost anything to get/keep Jenelle in her life. Nuff said. 

 

Yes in a perfect world Ali would have the same aide year in and out. Maybe this aide didn't want to work with Ali anymore Perhaps she prefers a change-of-pace maybe she prefers to work with older kids or younger kids. I've been in public schools for years and have yet to see an aide go all the way through an elementary school with the same child. Aides are not well paid. If Ali has a kind/patient person working with her, she is lucky. If you aren't happy Leah, you can send the girlses to private school or homeschool them.

Exactly. Fellow teacher here. In 10 years of teaching, I know of exactly one person who has been a 1:1 aide to the same student from grade six to now (grade 11). The situation is extremely rare because the parents are amazing, the student is high functioning and everyone gets along really well. That said, the aide is ONLY working another year with her student because while she’s exhausted, she wants to see the student finish grade 12. The aide already told the district she’s leaving in 2020. 

This is also exactly why Leah & Cory need to learn the freakin basics of how the Special Ed dept and an IEP work, especially when their daughter is eligible for a 1:1 aide.  

Ali’s IEP undoubtedly states she “will have a 1:1 aide”, but I can guarantee it doesn’t say “Jane Doe will be Ali’s 1:1 for the remainder of her school days.” IEPs don’t even mention specific names; it’s always typed as: “Teacher reports ______________” or “The team agrees that ______________.” It’s not meant to be shady at all. It’s recorded as very general on purpose in order to get the student the services they need. 

Districts don’t hire 1:1 aides for the entire duration of a student’s academic career. Just like any job, it might not always a great fit. The burnout rate is sky high and the pay is minimal. It’s not even a full time job with benefits. There are way too many variables to think about having the same 1:1 for X years. 

Even IF Ali had a specifically assigned aide named in her IEP from now until 12th grade and the aide was horrible, Leah & Cory would (and should) request a new aide. Perhaps then they’d understand why students aren’t guaranteed the same 1:1 aide from Kindergarten to grade 12. Ali will always have an aide, as her IEP is a legally binding document, but when they bitch about certain details, all it does is continue to illustrate how uneducated they both are about the very basic details of the IEP.

Not to minimize Ali’s health, but this is when I remind myself that this is a TV show. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was all planted. We didn’t see the bus driver tell Leah: “Sorry, no willchair on the bus.” They knew they had to call ahead of time. How does a parent forget that integral part of their kid’s first day of school? I refuse to believe that no one has ever said to Leah and Cory: “Ali will always have an aide, but we cannot guarantee it’ll be the same person for X years. Things happen. People might move away, get pregnant or have a different opportunity to work.” 

It’s straight up annoying to watch her continue to act like a victim as she talks about Ali & the school issues because I’m convinced it’s all a bunch of lies. She doesn’t work, so why doesn’t she march her ass down to the district office and get answers ASAP if she’s so worried instead of waiting for someone to call her back? It doesn’t make sense. She’s got no storyline/material to work with, so producers probably thought they’d be able to “educate people” about being the parent of a student with special needs. (Zero snark intended about the “being a parent”part. I see how draining it is on most parents whose kids have an IEP.) 

Stepping off of my soap box and taking off my tin foil hat now. 😉

[jacksgirl]

Boom Bridget! Well said. IEPs are written and met on yearly, so there is no way Ali is guaranteed anything except for more than 1 calendar year. Yes, I think public school is the best place for most kids including Ali, but schools juggle changing student populations, students with special needs while trying to recruit and keep good teachers who are leaving the profession in droves for better pay and better respect. Add into that every parent who wants the public school to provide OT services for  their SPD child and you will see what I see daily. Sorry Off Topic. An advocate would be a good idea for Leah and Cory. The advocate would need to meet with them first though and explain things so they all could go into any IEP meeting better informed and better ready to make decisions for Ali. I also think the wheelchair mixup was on Leah. That is not something you talk to the principal about, that is either special ed or the transportation department of the district or both.

Edited February 3, 2019 by jacksgirl

[heatherchandler]

On 2/1/2019 at 5:07 PM, Dance4Life said:

 No, it is not part of Puerto Rican culture. We find it vulgar to call little kids Mami or Papi because when adults use it on each other it is Puerto Rican sexual slang.

It means hot sexy girl who is usually DTF.

So, why would anyone call their little girl that?

Similar, to when a grown woman calls their partner...Daddy.   It is just too close to sexual incest.

 

Really??  My son had a Puerto Rican nanny and she called him "Papi" and "Papito" rather than his name.  I thought that was sweet.  Is it vulgar?

 

On 2/3/2019 at 3:03 PM, Bridget said:

Exactly. Fellow teacher here. In 10 years of teaching,

 

Thank you for your whole post, I wish the show would do a better job of clarifying some of the stuff they discuss.  Maybe once they get the advocate, they will talk about the ins and outs of an IEP.  I was totally in the dark when my son got one (the Catholic school version) for ADHD.  You clarified more in your post here than the show did in how many years!?  

I know someone mentioned a private aid - do people do that?  Is that allowed?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

It may vary place to place and by social class, but I have several Latinx friends (not just from PR) who call/called my toddler/then-baby son "Papi" as a term of endearment.  I thought it was a sweet, too, and never thought of it any other way (and I'm sure they meant it as a term of endearment).

Could this be something that varies across social classes maybe as far as how acceptable its use is as a term of endearment? 

In any case, I'm sure Brian and family mean it as a cute term of endearment when they call Stella mama or mami. 

[Polliwollidoodle]

Bridget that was a very good post- enlightening in face. I guess I never thought about it much, as thankfully I never had need with my now grown kids to have aides assigned. The point that cannot be mentioned enough though, is that Leah and her crew are so uninformed and unquestioning. Information and knowledge that should be pretty basic and understood by the vast majority of folks is just not in her realm. I don't mean this to sound so negative, but plainly and painfully, these people are so not aware of how things work.

I think she is very happy and grateful that she drives a good car, way nicer than most in her circle, and even has money to get the nails did... what more is she supposed to think about.

Edited February 5, 2019 by mayvenne

[AmyFarrahFowler]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 1:03 PM, Bridget said:

Exactly. Fellow teacher here. In 10 years of teaching, I know of exactly one person who has been a 1:1 aide to the same student from grade six to now (grade 11). The situation is extremely rare because the parents are amazing, the student is high functioning and everyone gets along really well. That said, the aide is ONLY working another year with her student because while she’s exhausted, she wants to see the student finish grade 12. The aide already told the district she’s leaving in 2020. 

This is also exactly why Leah & Cory need to learn the freakin basics of how the Special Ed dept and an IEP work, especially when their daughter is eligible for a 1:1 aide.  

Ali’s IEP undoubtedly states she “will have a 1:1 aide”, but I can guarantee it doesn’t say “Jane Doe will be Ali’s 1:1 for the remainder of her school days.” IEPs don’t even mention specific names; it’s always typed as: “Teacher reports ______________” or “The team agrees that ______________.” It’s not meant to be shady at all. It’s recorded as very general on purpose in order to get the student the services they need. 

Districts don’t hire 1:1 aides for the entire duration of a student’s academic career. Just like any job, it might not always a great fit. The burnout rate is sky high and the pay is minimal. It’s not even a full time job with benefits. There are way too many variables to think about having the same 1:1 for X years. 

Even IF Ali had a specifically assigned aide named in her IEP from now until 12th grade and the aide was horrible, Leah & Cory would (and should) request a new aide. Perhaps then they’d understand why students aren’t guaranteed the same 1:1 aide from Kindergarten to grade 12. Ali will always have an aide, as her IEP is a legally binding document, but when they bitch about certain details, all it does is continue to illustrate how uneducated they both are about the very basic details of the IEP.

Not to minimize Ali’s health, but this is when I remind myself that this is a TV show. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was all planted. We didn’t see the bus driver tell Leah: “Sorry, no willchair on the bus.” They knew they had to call ahead of time. How does a parent forget that integral part of their kid’s first day of school? I refuse to believe that no one has ever said to Leah and Cory: “Ali will always have an aide, but we cannot guarantee it’ll be the same person for X years. Things happen. People might move away, get pregnant or have a different opportunity to work.” 

It’s straight up annoying to watch her continue to act like a victim as she talks about Ali & the school issues because I’m convinced it’s all a bunch of lies. She doesn’t work, so why doesn’t she march her ass down to the district office and get answers ASAP if she’s so worried instead of waiting for someone to call her back? It doesn’t make sense. She’s got no storyline/material to work with, so producers probably thought they’d be able to “educate people” about being the parent of a student with special needs. (Zero snark intended about the “being a parent”part. I see how draining it is on most parents whose kids have an IEP.) 

Stepping off of my soap box and taking off my tin foil hat now. 😉

I just want to tell you right ON! Every single word.

[KittyKat133]

On 2/1/2019 at 7:05 PM, lezlers said:

Whoah!  Coming in hot, there.   My kids used to cry when I left them at daycare.  You know what?  Literally 2 minutes later I'd get a text picture of them happily playing from their teacher.  Kids cry.  Experienced mothers know this and are able to tell when their kid will be okay and when they won't.  Her becoming hysterical would've done nothing whatsoever to help the situation.  In fact, it would have made it 10 times worse.

I talk a lot of shit about Briana for various reasons, but I thought she acted totally appropriately (with the exception of bringing a camera crew to Nova's first day when it's obvious Nova is uncomfortable with attention on her) at the drop off.

I don’t blame her for leaving her there. That’s a part of life she has to leave her there it’s school. 

I’m talking about the scene in the car after. She was so cold!! Her mom was saying it broke her heart and Briana was focused on herself like she could care less, 

moms work, you have to leave your kids, it’s a part of life. It doesn’t mean you don’t feel cold and un moved the FIRST time it happens! 

[lezlers]

12 hours ago, KittyKat133 said:

I don’t blame her for leaving her there. That’s a part of life she has to leave her there it’s school. 

I’m talking about the scene in the car after. She was so cold!! Her mom was saying it broke her heart and Briana was focused on herself like she could care less, 

moms work, you have to leave your kids, it’s a part of life. It doesn’t mean you don’t feel cold and un moved the FIRST time it happens! 

Or she genuinely didn't think it was a big deal because she knew Nova would be fine 5 minutes after she left.   That was the point of my post.  When I drop my kids off at daycare and they're crying, I'm not going to my car and bawling after the trauma of it all.  I'm fine because I know THEY'RE fine.   Again, kids cry.  Roxanne was being a drama queen.