Roy Harper: Bad Boy

[chaos is welcome]

This season has been frustrating and off putting for me, but Roy has been my favorite character in terms of development this season. I wish they had given him more time in 6.

[tv echo]

This article is pretty on point about how Roy's character development has gotten lost in the shuffle this season...

 

Arrow’s Roy Harper Problem
By Randy Dankievitch on Dec 8, 2014

http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrows-roy-harper-problem-246233

Edited December 9, 2014 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

He makes a lot of good points.  Roy is a character I'm only moderately interested in but he deserves much better than the show has been giving him these past two seasons.  Another reason they should have held off on killing Sara for longer, to give time to storylines for characters like Roy before the speeding train of LaurelCanary took over.  

[TanyaKay]

Do people here think Roy Harper is ready to be a big boy in Oliver's absence and take on more responsibility?

[chaos is welcome]

He makes a lot of good points.  Roy is a character I'm only moderately interested in but he deserves much better than the show has been giving him these past two seasons.  Another reason they should have held off on killing Sara for longer, to give time to storylines for characters like Roy before the speeding train of LaurelCanary took over.  

And again, its frustrating they backburnered him for Sara in 2B only to kill her.

 

I for one am really enjoying Roy this season, not so much on his own but the relationships he has onscreen with Oliver (and Cisco in the cross, that was awesome).

 

Watching him struggle with the knowledge he killed someone is interesting, even though 99% of it happens off screen.

 

I can't imagine him calling the shots in Oliver's absence--he just doesn't have that much experience in the field.  I don't see how they'll make it work, but I suppose it will force him to grow up.

[calliope1975]

Do people here think Roy Harper is ready to be a big boy in Oliver's absence and take on more responsibility?

 

In short, no. In long, I think he is ready to take on more responsibility but is no where near a leader. This is the guy that always looks shocked that his arrows hit something, which I actually appreciate. Roy's a good kid and so far has been great hanging out in the background making reaction faces. I'm bummed we didn't get to see the 8 months of Team Arrow bonding over the summer, but this Roy isn't yet the Arsenal that ran the Outsiders with Nightwing (comic reference.) He could get there someday if the show ever decided to show that growth, but I'm sure it'll just be a handwave and a look how amazing Roy is now.

[Actionmage]

I can see Dig guiding Roy. Unless Dig puts on the leathers himself, I think Roy will step up as the public-accepted vigilante in Oliver's absence.  It could generate some fun scenes with Quentin wondering where the usual guy is. It could also give us some of the growing into the role of sidekick/ partner, with Diggle  not coddling Roy, but also not just letting him take on cases alone. 

 

That way, when Oliver returns, there will be more than just how folks react to Oliver's return, but also (hopefully) a pride in how Roy stepped up and had grown in his absence.

 

In short, no. In long, I think he is ready to take on more responsibility but is no where near a leader

 

Maybe there can be a Roy arc where he realizes he's good at backing folks right now.  That he, at the moment, isn't interested in leading anything, especially as it seems to make you a target or is a hassle. So Roy is cool with bonding with Oliver and John and Felicity, but is glad Oliver has been the main man. When Oliver comes back, whenever that is, Roy can mention his respect for Oliver's position in the team and that he prefers being "just" Arsenal,.

 

Which doesn't rule out leading anything in the future. I can see this Roy having someone point out that he's been leading things, when Roy just doesn't see himself in that light.

[BkWurm1]

I agree that Roy is probably ready to step up on the action front but not the decision front.  He doesn't have the skill or sheer fighting ability so they'd have to carefully manage his time in the field or risk him getting knocked out without back up and that's fine, he's on a team that can figure this stuff out. 

[Actionmage]

Hugs to Colton, for the scene with Malcolm! The zen-like parkour  vigilante dude v. the bsc crazypants ninja Magician assassin. I'd call it a draw. Roy may have stepped back, but not down. Malcolm felt the need to come partially clean to try to get Thea to go on the run with him. (Unless everything all the time with Malcolm is a contingency in case plan 49658J didn't work out.)

 

Roy and Diggle with Ollie's special vodka was nice. This is a Roy/Diggle I believe (not the Diggle who'd get skittish about under-the-influence Roy.) The guys who speak for us by saying 'Who in the what now?!" when Laurel takes to the street as Canary and insists on going out to get her ass handed to her again.

 

Roy was much more laid-back about snotty Laurel getting stitched up than I would have been. He probably told her what he learned and what he was going to do, so she'd know what to expect (Roy seems kind enough to do that.) For Laurel to get pissy for the pain of getting stitched up, when she could have gone to a hospital and lied about a mugging and gotten the good meds, it came across as ungrateful and disrespectful. Nice to know you'll sit on your snark until he's finished sewing your wound up before the assiness commences.

 

What actually is funny, to me, is that I think I am more angry on Roy's behalf than Roy is. He has no fucks to give Ms. ADA vigilante and acts that way. He won't let her die if he can help it, but he's just not that concerned about her otherwise.

 

Still, Colton looked very handsome tonight and it was a good episode for he and Roy.

[Actionmage]

There's Roy! He was playing Hide-And -Seek last week.  There's the Roy who got tired of slapping water and lying to Thea and got his knee arrowed because he was going to help get to the truth about Sin's friend, dammit! Glad he was back and had Thea's. 

 

I cheered when Roy was all "Don't talk to her like that!" Then I almost cheered again when it looked like he was ready to throw down with Oliver over Oliver's tone with Felicity. More of Roy/ Felicity/ Diggle bonding, please?  (If I don't ask, how will they know what not to give me?  :p )  Maybe even Diggle supervising Roy/Felicity training so that Roy stays in fighting trim and Felicity can expand her defensive moves repertoire?  I know! Dig asks Felicity and Roy over for a meal and Oliver is excluded this time. Due to "training".

[Actionmage]

I apologize if this gets ranty; I'll try to not do that.

 

This last episode "Nanda Parbat", showed us that Roy is still torn up over killing a police officer. Good step.  He keeps an eye on them, anonymously helps where he can, even mentioning  buying a toy for the son for Christmas. I get the Guardian Angel thing, but it is slightly less stalkery than Ray Palmer.  I don't get the feeling that all of Roy's free time is spent in his highly recognizable red car across the street from a policeman's widow's house.

 

The thing is that it would be an actually interesting story to have Roy go through a trial, not unlike Moira. Instead of a guilty that we were all expecting- with good reason, Roy could end up with a not guilty, because not all people have to be written as idiotically, blindly stupid. 

 

If Roy were to turn himself over to Quentin, confess all, and agree to a jury trial, it could be interesting, if not meaty. Laurel could get a chance to show court chops, even as an  ADA ( because no one else is shown to handle trials, as they are summarily killed in some fashion.) We may have suspense because Malcolm will not be willing to by Roy's freedom like Moira's. Twelve reasonable people could find Roy not guilty due to extenuating circumstances, but it's not a given, considering it's Roy.

Colton's Roy exploring and talking about what he's experienced since finding out. Thea not willing to give up on Roy because she realizes he is a very good friend and doesn't want to lose him, even temporarily. Dig worried that Roy will have to face jail, but not knowing how to help Roy. Felicity working to figure out some loophole, sending admissible, but anonymous evidence to help exonerate Roy, but not sure if it's enough. Oliver, totally at a loss on how to mentor Roy through the trial, but showing up and telling Roy that he believes in him and he'll do whatever Roy needs to have peace of mind. Sharing with Roy, Moira stories and hoping it helps Roy. Laurel, putting on a very good case ( "Look what vigilantes have brought to the city"), but also being torn at going after someone for doing what she is doing too.

 

Even though I think the cast could handle it, I don't trust the writers to write a picture book right now.

 

That is why I am happier that they are futzing around with other bits. We get Roy being awesomely supportive of Thea still. They are up with Dig and Lyla as healthiest relationship, outside of Felicity and Mama Smoak.

 

Yay, Colton!

[BkWurm1]

Colton's Roy exploring and talking about what he's experienced since finding out. Thea not willing to give up on Roy because she realizes he is a very good friend and doesn't want to lose him, even temporarily. Dig worried that Roy will have to face jail, but not knowing how to help Roy. Felicity working to figure out some loophole, sending admissible, but anonymous evidence to help exonerate Roy, but not sure if it's enough. Oliver, totally at a loss on how to mentor Roy through the trial, but showing up and telling Roy that he believes in him and he'll do whatever Roy needs to have peace of mind. Sharing with Roy, Moira stories and hoping it helps Roy. Laurel, putting on a very good case ( "Look what

 

Alas, wrong show for something like this to happen.  They did a trial with Moira so I doubt they would repeat themselves either. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Tangerine]

I still don't care much for Colton's acting, but I've really liked Roy's scenes this year and feel kind of bad that he's also one of the characters getting the shaft in terms of development. He's really had no significant story lines of his own at all. It's nice that he's supportive of Thea, but he really is one of those characters that just exist on the periphery in a bloated cast already.

[Scribbles]

Roy's character really allows for a lot on the team.  For Diggle to be a father/husband and still "in the game", Roy provides a close action sidekick for Oliver that lets Dig not be in the direct line of fire all the time.  Dig can then step in when more is needed and yet often be the shotcaller/spotter in the field at a bit safer distance.  It creates a nice team balance.

 

Roy also allows Oliver to work out issues with failed previous attempts at saving lost souls in a long term and healthier way.  Roy humanizes Oliver as a big brother/mentor type.  Someday when Roy is further along it will also allow for him to sprout wings and possibly leave the nest.

 

The Mirakuru story line was a tough one to carry and seeing Roy written this season has been a bright spot. 

[Actionmage]

They did a trial with Moira so I doubt they would repeat themselves either.

 

Tbh, I doubt they would either, but it wouldn't have to be a copy of Moira's trial. Roy is more connected to the team and Oliver, while not having the same kind of bond as he did with his mom, could certainly deliver some good scenes  that end with " Did you find anyone for me to hit?"

[CabotCove]

Roy also allows Oliver to work out issues with failed previous attempts at saving lost souls in a long term and healthier way.  Roy humanizes Oliver as a big brother/mentor type.  Someday when Roy is further along it will also allow for him to sprout wings and possibly leave the nest.

 

Agree.

[kismet]

Can I just say with the release of the 317 editors preview video I can safely say I don't want to lose Roy permanently to the Arrow team for a long time. The look back that OQ gave him was priceless and then the whole adorable "reckless" response to appease OQ. I never thought I would say this about his character. But I've grown fond of him and want to see him around. I must admit I thought he was expendable in earlier seasons, but now I love his little one-liners of humor or insight. Like I said in an earlier post on a different thread, he is just the right fit for Team Arrow. I feel like he fits in perfectly without overshadowing any part. And I love the relationship he has with Thea, even as friends they are a great support system. If I can't have Tommy to be the less serious buddy foil to intense Oliver, Ill take Roy any day. OQ is also best when he can be a big bro to RH learning lil bro. And as much as I love Diggle, he does come off more as the more wise mentorly bro to Oliver, so the relationship has a different rhythm.

[Actionmage]

Hi, I'm Actionmage and I'm a friend of .... Red Arrow.  He's...you don't have a patient by that name here? He was electrocuted by a flying tin can! Why wouldn't Red be in a hospital? Did the cops get him? Then he might be in the jail wing/floor/ward/whatever. Can you check? No? I'll call Thea Queen down here and ... you don't care about an ex-socialite druggie? Nice mouth, you heal children with it?

 

Fine; out of curiosity: Do you have a Ted Grant listed as a patient?

 

-----------------------------

 

I know, IRL it was probably to give Colton a break, but the writing was just sofa king bad.  I think we're going to have more Roy next week, but still.  Ya know?

[kismet]

I;ve been wondering why Ray felt the need to electrocute Ray... here's what I got...

Maybe Ray was just jealous that his name was too close to Roy, and clearly Roy had to pay for that mistake. Apparently, Felicity should not be able to keep friends with similar names without explicitly telling him. Plus he probably felt Roy stole his red color theme, cuz clearly he had the idea first.

 

Edit - was trying to be snarky... problem with responding at work, you get called away unexpectedly & post prematurely.  @Quarks below is giving an accurate & logical answer. I just blame the writers for not actually having him use it on real bad guys and then having Arrow just walk away. Not even a passing comment about how Roy was doing was a little harsh.

Edited March 27, 2015 by kismet

[quarks]

I think the idea was to show viewers the power of the suit and that it could do other things besides run facial recognition software on people.  So credit for that, minus several hundred points for having Ray demonstrate this power on one of the heroes instead of a villain, a random mook or even Oliver, really, given that Oliver was his main target.

[tennisgurl]

And the fact that they both just left him there, in an electrocuted heap. I am really glad that Roy has no desire to get in dick measuring contests, like certain other costumed hero's. He just does the work, offers support (with a little snark) and avoids over angsting and drama. And he`s the teenager! 

 

I think anyway. How old is Roy supposed to be anyway? 

Edited March 27, 2015 by tennisgurl

[TanyaKay]

Somewhere it was mentioned that he is 22.

Thea is 20 and he is a couple of years older than her.

[tennisgurl]

So, if anyone was curious, MG said that they just forgot about Roy being electrocuted and left in a heap. As he said "our bad", and the later, after MUCH fan outrage "we fucked up".

 

Kind of says how much they care about Roy right about now. 

 

Seriously, what is even the hell? 

[quarks]

I like to think that a real ambulance eventually responded to the faked 911 call and someone helped out the poor guy.

[statsgirl]

But a real ambulance would have called the police because he was in his Arsenal leathers.

 

I like this one from Lord Mesa

[quarks]

Statsgirl, your insistence on logic is really interfering with my otherwise perfectly good fanwanking!

 

:: thinks ::

 

Ok, the ambulance that rolled up just happened to be staffed by EMTs who were once saved by Arsenal and/or the Arrow. Got it.

[statsgirl]

That brings up an interesting speculative point -- if the city does turn against the Arrow, what about those people who were saved by  Arsenal, or Canary or Arrow. like the police officers Arsenal and Arrow saved last episode?  Would they turn on them too, or refuse to follow orders?

[calliope1975]

That brings up an interesting speculative point -- if the city does turn against the Arrow, what about those people who were saved by  Arsenal, or Canary or Arrow. like the police officers Arsenal and Arrow saved last episode?  Would they turn on them too, or refuse to follow orders?

 

I actually love scenes like this - when the regular people help the hero. Spider-Man and reboot Spider-Man both had scenes like this as did Captain America 2 albeit with the non-Hydra workers taking a stand against Hydra in SHIELD. Maybe we'll get something like that on Arrow someday, and maybe I'll still be watching.

[Actionmage]

I actually love scenes like this - when the regular people help the hero.

 

Me too! I can see some cops wanting to do as the Captain says. Others, like patrolmen and beat cops, would probably be more on protecting hiding Arrow and company.

[KirkB]

I'm sure there are some hard line, by the book types in the SCPD who don't like vigilantes and have only stood down so far because the captain told them to, who will be the first to line up for Quentin's new task force. Others who have been saved by the Arrow or Arsenal, might be inclined to turn a blind eye or at least give them a head start. But even those guys, the ones who are "arrest anyone not in a police uniform" would probably call for an ambulance if they found a guy in smoldering red leather laying face down at a crime scene. If nothing else they'd need him better so they can take him to jail. Unlike some people I don't think they would walk off and leave him there.

Edited March 28, 2015 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

I don't think they would walk away.  Mostly likely, they would arrest him, and not only would Roy end up in jail, his connection to Oliver would probably be exposed.

[Actionmage]

Well, he could argue that he used to date and work for Thea. Also, yes, the Arrow saved him that time.  Roy could plead that due to his past run-ins with now-Captain Lance, he is being unfairly characterized? 

 

Which has the sort of bonus of being true and false.

[Lady Calypso]

ROY HARPER, YOU THE MVP OF SEASON THREE.

 

Ok, but seriously, I just wanted to throw out again how much Roy has grown and developed over the last three seasons, and also how Colton Haynes has improved. Roy is now in my top three favourite characters, and he has had the most organic and interesting character development. It's felt natural and, more importantly, it's felt earned. He's struggled through so much, and if we compare him to Oliver, he's had a similar journey but with different outcomes. With Oliver, he was forced to become a killer in order to survive. He did things to keep himself alive, and that's affected him in a way that's left him broken, damaged and problematic. He's a vigilante, but for different reasons and in different ways. 

 

But with Roy? He chose to become a vigilante on his own accord, to help the city and to do what's right. He's made some questionable decisions along the way, but he was never forced into this role. It's also interesting to see how he reacts to killing compared to people like Oliver, Sara and even Diggle. He didn't grow up in the environments that they did, so deaths affect him a lot more. It's great to see Roy genuinely crushed and guilt-ridden for the death of the cop, not because of his occupation but because he was an innocent person. Even when he knows it's not his fault, he blames himself, much like Oliver does. The difference is that Roy is trying to find ways to deal with this guilt. Ok, the results aren't that great (following the officer's family, giving them stuff, wanting to go to prison) but it shows that he hasn't been fully corrupted. He can still be saved and he's still fairly healthy, emotionally and mentally. Oliver will take a much longer time, if ever, to get the help that he needs, but Roy could bounce back from it faster. But the fact that he does feel guilt, and that he doesn't want to kill people, is just so fascinating.

 

He really is a good guy all around. He's there for everyone on Team Arrow (just give him more one-on-one scenes with them, like please! Can I have more Felicity/Roy scenes, as it seems Emily and Colton are really close IRL?) and he tries to help whenever he can. He's the best boyfriend to Thea ever, has been patient with her and not gone psycho-crazy on her when she got DJ Douchebag as a temporary boyfriend. He really does care about the people in his life and sacrifices himself for them, which is just...so noble and so selfless from him. I wouldn't have said this season 1, when I was still questionable about Colton Haynes (I watched him on Teen Wolf; I know what kind of character he plays and what acting weaknesses he had), but Roy Harper is amazing and I want him to be my boyfriend. 

 

Also...better vigilante origin story than Laurel 'Black Canary' Lance.

[Actionmage]

At least we still have Roy able to come back.

 

"I'll miss you most, Scarecrow" almost broke me.

 

I hope it's a temp thing and we get to see Roy in the finale or he comes back due to Ra's actions from tonight.

 

I didn't realize I had a Roy Harper-shaped spot in my heart until this season.

[statsgirl]

Roy is definitely the MVP of the season.  And just when they've learned to write for him too.

 

From Deadline

 

DEADLINE: When did you know that Colton Haynes was leaving after Season 3?
BERLANTI: When we made the deal. We made a two-season deal that had a clock on it, we always knew that. When he was coming off Teen Wolf, we described the role to him, and we agreed he would do it for a couple of years. At that particular moment, he had a lot of opportunities to do things, and we’re lucky he chose us. He brought a lot of nototriety and viewership to the show when we were growing, and the show wouldn’t be the show it is without him. He is such a talent and such a nice guy, everybody from crew to writers were so enthusiastic to have him for the time we had him. We are sad to see him go but excited to see what he does next.

 

GUGGENHEIM: We were able to deign his arc for the season with the end point in mind. We always knew he would take a heroic stance and redeem himself for his actions. It’s always a blessing when you know where exactly you are going to end up.

DEADLINE: Did you consider killing off Roy?
BERLANTI: We wanted to do something different. These characters are so young, they represent the next generation of superheroes, and we love the idea of having them just out there. And as a person we like Colton so much, we all would love to see him back. Such a talented, great guy.
GUGGENHEIM: The hope is that he’ll continue to be part of the universe we are building. We love working with his so much. We’ve talked to him about returning to one of the three shows, and if available, he has expressed interest. He is gone but definitely not forever.

I'm glad it was Colton Haynes decision to have a two season contract. I'm happy that they left it that he can come back, and hope he does.

 

I think they need a deadline for all of the characters because wow, does it ever improve the writing.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm glad Roy.isn't dead but.I'm sad.he's leaving. I really grew to like him in s2 and now I'm going to miss him

[catrox14]

I am so upset that Roy is leaving. I'm happy he's alive but man, Colton really brought so much to a largely thankless role.  I loved everything he did here from day one.  I will miss him so much.

[Genki]

Colton did such a great job will Roy in 3.19, that was the best he has acted ever. I was getting feels in all of his scenes.

Glad they didn't kill him off. 

 

I was pretty "Meh" on him in S1 and indifferent on S2. Then I saw Teen Wolf (boy has he improved)

Season 3 he was a steady player and both his character and acting grew so much. 

 

I'm upset that he is off the show, and secretly hope that the producers are yanking our chain.

[statsgirl]

They were pretty definitive in the episode that "Roy Harper" is dead. I wonder if the next time we see Colton Haynes (hopefully), the character he plays will have a different name.

[nksarmi]

They were pretty definitive in the episode that "Roy Harper" is dead. I wonder if the next time we see Colton Haynes (hopefully), the character he plays will have a different name.

 Even though they didn't say, I am hoping that between Oliver and Diggle's contacts an Felicity's hacking skills - they set him up with a new identity instead of just sending him off with no support.

[statsgirl]

Well she did put an untraceable phone in his luggage.... kind of like Mom puts a special treat in her kid's bag when sending him off to camp.

[CabotCove]

Well she did put an untraceable phone in his luggage.... kind of like Mom puts a special treat in her kid's bag when sending him off to camp.

 

I like "sister" better, Felicity and Roy are quite close in age. 

Roy is a man, or has become one.

 

Season 3 he was a steady player and both his character and acting grew so much.

 

Yeah. Going to miss him but best wishes to Colton on his next project/s.

[kismet]

Roy & Colton truly are the MIP & MVP for this season. He really came out of nowhere to steal my heart. I mean I didn't mind him in the other seasons. But he was just there, having a good moment or two, so I never imagined myself by the middle of s3 hoping that they would not kill him off. Consider me pleasantly surprised that I went from not really caring about a character to willingly hoping that they didn't kill him. RH stepped up for TA & CH stepped up his acting. It was impressive. I'm glad they didn't kill him off, and hope they are able to bring him back when its organic & CH is available. I also appreciate that they let him out of prison & "killed" Roy Harper so that it doesn't linger along in future seasons about what to do about Roy. Oliver, Diggle & Felicity definitely set him up with a new identity & resources, they wouldn't let him just vanish without help that's not how TA rolls ~ they take care of their own. :)

[tv echo]

The CW's S2 character bio card for Roy...

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.307038822767490.1073741835.104137579724283&type=3

[BkWurm1]

Funny, in that picture he looks a bit like Barrowman.  It's the cheekbones. 

[kismet]

Funny, in that picture he looks a bit like Barrowman. It's the cheekbones.

He sorta looked like barrowman in the photobomb he did during the wedding bts pics between SA & DR. It must be the cheekbones.

[morakot]

He's ba-ack!

[kismet]

But sadly, he won't

stay around :(

based upon MG's tumblr.

[kismet]

I've decided I want Roy back... I truly never appreciated how much I enjoyed having Roy Harper around. He was funny and had chemistry with everyone. And he parkoured everywhere it was amazing!!

 

Also the man volunteers for missions and is willing to sacrifice himself to protect other and fix his mistakes. Shame they had to write him off last season for plot purposes. I wonder if OQ can pardon him when he become mayor, so RH can return.

[Guest]

I never realized I liked Roy all that much until he came back. He definitely adds a little something, especially when he's being used well. And I have to admit, they didn't use him very well in s3. I thought they bought him back in a really organic way this time so hopefully they can do it again.