Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[statsgirl]

On 2017-01-16 at 7:28 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

She's not completely original Thea Dearden Queen is based on Mia Dearden (comics Speedy). Which is why comic fans/Reddit didn't object. That plus, she wasn't a love interest and, she's the little sister.

Felicity Smoak isn't completely original either, she was an IT genius in the comics with a blonde ponytail and glasses, so closer to the original than Thea is to Mia.

It's the love interest part that's the rub, and not having a masked destiny,IMO.

Edited January 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

40 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity Smoak isn't completely original either, she was an IT genius in the comics with a blonde ponytail and glasses, so closer to the original than Thea is to Mia.

It's the love interest part that's the rub, and not having a masked destiny,IMO.

I think it's a bit of both. Felicity wasn't a Green Arrow character, Mia/Thea was. Felicity really is just a borrowed comic name. Thea was introduced in the Pilot as Speedy and had some connection to Comic Character (drug issues, teenager, Oliver's mentee, etc)

I mean Thea was very heavily setup in early S1 to eventually become Speedy. Felicity was introduced to take someone's comic destiny.

However, I do think that the biggest issues with Felicity isn't that she's not a Green Arrow character but, that she's a non GA Comic character that is more popular than all of the comic characters and 'stole' the comic character's destiny.

Plus she's a girl. 

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity Smoak isn't completely original either, she was an IT genius in the comics with a blonde ponytail and glasses, so closer to the original than Thea is to Mia.

Ehhhh.  I'm far from a comics expert so I could be wrong, but I think you're thinking of the New 52 Felicity that was based on Arrow's Felicity.  The original Felicity Smoak had black hair and managed a software company, and eventually married a reporter named Ed Raymond, Ronnie Raymond's father.  

Which makes me think.  If they ever wanted to introduce a LI for Felicity that might actually seem like a legitimate threat to Olicity instead of a placeholder, they could bring in a character named Ed Raymond.  Just say he's Ronnie's brother instead of father (like Wally is Iris' brother instead of nephew).  That might really cause a fandom meltdown.  

(To be clear, I'm in no way saying they SHOULD do this.)

Edited January 18, 2017 by Starfish35

[kismet]

On 1/16/2017 at 4:12 PM, Angel12d said:

Haha. I thought they were exaggerating because let's face it, Felicity is not the first geeky tech genius but LOL after watching that video. She even babbles like Felicity.

There will only ever be one though because EBR. 

Yeah, I think that for me is the biggest difference. So much of what I love about FS is probably EBR portraying her. Remove EBR and yeah FS is an adorkable character, but I don't think I would find her special. Geeky, tech girl with glasses is not original. But EBR's portrayal of it is original and relatable.

[kismet]

15 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Ehhhh.  I'm far from a comics expert so I could be wrong, but I think you're thinking of the New 52 Felicity that was based on Arrow's Felicity.  The original Felicity Smoak had black hair and managed a software company, and eventually married a reporter named Ed Raymond, Ronnie Raymond's father.  

Which makes me think.  If they ever wanted to introduce a LI for Felicity that might actually seem like a legitimate threat to Olicity instead of a placeholder, they could bring in a character named Ed Raymond.  Just say he's Ronnie's brother instead of father (like Wally is Iris' brother instead of nephew).  That might really cause a fandom meltdown.  

(To be clear, I'm in no way saying they SHOULD do this.)

My first preference would always be for them to repair and reinstate Olicity as both a romantic pairing and core of the team. That being said after watching them at odds in s3 and then this weird platonic non-friendship thing that have in s5, I would prefer that they decide soon whether a reunited Olicity is in the cards for the show. I don't think they have the potential to be will they won't they anymore and the temporary love interests are just that temporary. But if they never have any intention of reuniting Olicity, I actually would love to see them cast a talented and interesting male actor to be Ed Raymond and actually give FS a successful romantic pairing that is not for a spin-off or a plot point.

I think the show really needs to decide what it wants to do with O/F besides not writing to the romance or whatever it is they are doing in s5. Because they are ruining what made the show special by having O/F be unable to interact properly, even if it only ever is platonic moving forward. And all these random LI for FS are simply filling up the script with useless plot, when they could actually give FS a real storyline about her. Her character is smart enough and deserving of one. And frankly EBR is not given her due when they only use her as prop for other characters or plot.

[TrueMyth]

Yeah, at this point, if Olicity is dead, I could get behind an actually love interest for Felicity, but even in that I doubt these writers.  From interviews they really seemed to think that Ray Palmer and Billy Malone were the stuff of Valentines, and neither did anything for me.  I agree that part of Billy's problem was his impermanent status that meant very little screentime to sell the character.  However, EBR sold me Felicity in only two scenes, so I do blame casting for some of the flop of the two men.

An Ed Raymond guy who is a business man without a comic destiny could be interesting.  He could help support Felicity's stated desire to help the world with tech not vigilante warfare.  He'd eventually have to learn about Felicity's night job... And I think he'd actually have a problem with it, because it is DANGEROUS.  But it would be nice to have another non-mask.

[dtissagirl]

I don't think I'm willing to 'ship Felicity with anyone else at this point -- it might just be too late for me -- but I do agree that IF they gave her a really real not-temporary 'ship stall love interest, it would all come down to who they cast [and the chemistry, obviously]. It would have to be like, Joshua Jackson levels of OKAY I can 'ship anyone with that guy. Aldis Hodge levels of OKAY I can 'ship anyone with that guy.

The main problem I see with that is that it would have to be a guy to make the audience go "Oliver who?" FOREVER, and I honestly do not see Steve's ego letting that happen on his show.
 

[Chaser]

Steve's like "How about Mayo? Goes on all the sandwiches, everyone likes sandwiches."

Olicitys an OTP for me. I honestly can't see them bringing in another guy I could enjoy more with her.

[Guest]

I don't think I'll ever ship Felicity with anyone else tbh. When I ship a couple, I pretty much ship them forever, although my level of investment lessens with time and (bad) writing. But the only way I could maybe be okay with it is if they cast someone super hot. Shallow as hell but that's how I feel. LOL. Mayo and Ray did absolutely nothing for me. Sorry not sorry! ;P

The trouble is, when I think about the possibility it just leads me back to someone who is exactly like Oliver. He needs to be hot and they need to have amazing chemistry that at least matches EBR's with SA. He needs to be a contrast to her, so they play off of each other (because Ray and Felicity were far too alike and whenever they spoke really fast in a scene together it was like nails on a chalkboard and I switched off). He probably should be in the vigilante/double life business otherwise Felicity would be keeping secrets all the time. So...It's basically Oliver. Haha.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Guest

[kismet]

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't think I'm willing to 'ship Felicity with anyone else at this point -- it might just be too late for me -- but I do agree that IF they gave her a really real not-temporary 'ship stall love interest, it would all come down to who they cast [and the chemistry, obviously]. It would have to be like, Joshua Jackson levels of OKAY I can 'ship anyone with that guy. Aldis Hodge levels of OKAY I can 'ship anyone with that guy.

The main problem I see with that is that it would have to be a guy to make the audience go "Oliver who?" FOREVER, and I honestly do not see Steve's ego letting that happen on his show.

I'm lucky in that regard that I'm really not a shipper. If presented me a well-cast LI that has chemistry, and the show has pretty much gotten rid of my favorite pairing. I can be flexible with the romances. Because I would rather see happy healthy romantic relationships, than just throwing up some pathetic temporary LI in there as placeholders until all the predestined ratings moments. I hate when shows become very predictable or conform to norms. FS deserves to be happy and not stranded on temporary LI spin cycle until the writers get their act together or we have the perfect for ratings timing.

I do agree that I don't think SA's ego could handle it. Well, maybe he should get more involved in writing a better story for FS. Because I found myself FFwd through her scenes this season. Because she had become inconsequential to the narrative, even as a side narrative her story was just tumbleweeds. Also SA may be willing to boldly go beyond comic canon or standard TV coupledom, however not sure TPTB really have the strength or skill to keep up the bold strokes. So far they have receded on all of the bold strokes they made in earlier seasons either because of external pressure or internal failings.

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Steve's like "How about Mayo? Goes on all the sandwiches, everyone likes sandwiches."

Olicitys an OTP for me. I honestly can't see them bringing in another guy I could enjoy more with her.

Ironically, I dislike sandwiches. And I intensely despise mayo. Seriously, who invent it? Most overrated condiment hands down in my opinion.

Olicity is my preferred pairing. But I have watched enough years of TV to know that unless Arrow decides to be bold again, the merry-go-round of O/F standard couple TV cliches may not be worth it for me. I want a real relationship, not just quickie screenshots to sustain my interest. Their chemistry is so powerful that to write against it like they are doing now is really detrimental to the show and the characters.

[Starfish35]

I wasn't meaning someone to actually replace Olicity.  I was just thinking that if they wanted people to think they were actually going to do that. I mean, did anyone actually think Felicity and Billy was a serious option?  I don't know.  I was working with two hours of sleep yesterday, so it's possible I'm not making any sense at all. Lol.

As far as Ray and Felicity, at least for me, the problem wasn't them being alike, because I could have shipped Felicity with Barry very easily.  The problem was Ray.  For whatever reason, I just need Ray to be playing off an opposite character type, like Mick or Oliver, for me to really enjoy him.  (I didn't figure that out until Nate came along.)

[Cleanqueen]

50 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I don't think I'll ever ship Felicity with anyone else tbh. When I ship a couple, I pretty much ship them forever, although my level of investment lessens with time and (bad) writing. But the only way I could maybe be okay with it is if they cast someone super hot. Shallow as hell but that's how I feel. LOL. Mayo and Ray did absolutely nothing for me. Sorry not sorry! ;P

The trouble is, when I think about the possibility it just leads me back to someone who is exactly like Oliver. He needs to be hot and they need to have amazing chemistry that at least matches EBR's with SA. He needs to be a contrast to her, so they play off of each other (because Ray and Felicity were far too alike and whenever they spoke really fast in a scene together it was like nails on a chalkboard and I switched off). He probably should be in the vigilante/double life business otherwise Felicity would be keeping secrets all the time. So...It's basically Oliver. Haha.

I am the same way, once I ship officially a couple to me it's the official ship that must be endgame. I casually ship other characters together if I am not that invested in the main ship. At this point, it would take a pretty damn good actor who has insane chemistry with Emily to me to be like "Oliver who?". If the ship isn't to my liking story wise, usually I just dump the show because they ruined something I liked.

[statsgirl]

While I really enjoy it when a favourite show goes on for several seasons, it really can mess up the writing.  Nothing sharpens up storylines like knowing you have to finish your story in X number of episodes.  I hated it when Babylon 5 turned off the lights but there was some very find storytelling up to then.  This "Arrow may go 6 seasons..... or maybe 7 ... or maybe we'll do a 200th episode" is just killing it.

12 hours ago, kismet said:

maybe he should get more involved in writing a better story for FS. Because I found myself FFwd through her scenes this season. Because she had become inconsequential to the narrative, even as a side narrative her story was just tumbleweeds.

Worse for me, she was irritating.  What I really loved about the character, her intelligence, her forthrightness, and her determination to do whatever needs to be done no matter how frightened she is, fell by the wayside.  it was all "wacky Felicity' who needed Curtis to help her write an algorithm and mansplain' her ideas to Cisco (!), who was so excruciating with the bad lines and the Lucy Ricardo impression that I couldn't watch her.  My favourite character, and I couldn't stand to watch her.  Tell me again how great this "back to basics"season is.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

While I really enjoy it when a favourite show goes on for several seasons, it really can mess up the writing.  Nothing sharpens up storylines like knowing you have to finish your story in X number of episodes.  I hated it when Babylon 5 turned off the lights but there was some very find storytelling up to then.  This "Arrow may go 6 seasons..... or maybe 7 ... or maybe we'll do a 200th episode" is just killing it.

Worse for me, she was irritating.  What I really loved about the character, her intelligence, her forthrightness, and her determination to do whatever needs to be done no matter how frightened she is, fell by the wayside.  it was all "wacky Felicity' who needed Curtis to help her write an algorithm and mansplain' her ideas to Cisco (!), who was so excruciating with the bad lines and the Lucy Ricardo impression that I couldn't watch her.  My favourite character, and I couldn't stand to watch her.  Tell me again how great this "back to basics"season is.

Well basically, if I'm giving into my more cynical tendencies I would say that they are writing FS down to her basic elements to lessen her importance to the show. They basically took away a lot of what made her special and unique from the beginning. And if I'm cynical enough, I would say that as much as they love her popularity and the fact they invented her - but they don't like how she's taken on a life & power of her own. They are basically jealous of their own success and finding ways to self-sabotage themselves. Maybe they write OQ as stupid & self-sabotaging is not a coincidence, maybe it's a self-reflection.

They now have their basic tech girl. No romance. Minimized interaction with the lead to prevent unintended sparks. Provides a basic link to a recurring for plot character. Provides a basic entry point for all the new characters who then get storylines of their own.

I have to wonder if this is what they envisioned FS to be from the beginning and the last few seasons were just them getting away from the original vision. If EBR was not a regular, I have to wonder if they would find a way to minimize her screen time moving fwd. Also if EBR was never cast, I wonder if this is what FS would have looked like from s1.

Edited January 20, 2017 by kismet

[Chaser]

Or it's S5 and they felt the need to give the show a jolt so they introduced a bunch of new characters in the first half and as such put less focus on the main cast. And Felicity has been in the Lair working all season. Thea and Lance are out in the cold and Diggle missed the first few episodes.

As for lack of story and reducing her to wacky tech girl, they addressed Havenrock at the start and they offed her boyfriend in the MSF in dramatic fashion. They already said she was avoiding and hiding in the Lair. 

Spoiler

Per spoilers all this is intentional set up for 5b. Everything bottled up for a darker turn, setting her sights on Prometheus, mingling with cohorts, key role, finding a legacy, etc. I have no idea how the follow up is going to be and it may be a massive disappointment but it doesnt sound like they are cutting screen time and reducing her to a happy disposable techy. It actually sound like the opposite. It sounds like the idea is to let her simmer in the background well they get the boobies settled. Look at the recent synopsis we have, OTA with Felicity taking the B plot in both.

Frankly, Felicity has it the best outside of Oliver. Diggle, Thea and Lance are lacking.

[LeighAn]

I love the fact that of all the upcoming 5B plots its Felicitys that seems to be getting the most traction and interest online and within the entertainment media. I was listening to that Natalie Abrams EW Superhero podcast and the Arrow portion started off with (paraphrasing) "wow Laurels back oops the promo spoiled her entire storyline but moving on let's talk about Felicity that's what Im most interested to see".

Even if I brought that the writers wanted to sabotage her out of some misplaced jealousy over her popularity I don't see how they could when she actually brings them more buzz then their title character. I mean is anyone in the entertainment media talking about Oliver? Or Oliver/Susan? There's not many articles  about what the newbies of Diggle and even Laurel/Not Laurel hasn't generated much buzz since the promos basically left nothing to talk about in regards to her storyline. 

I wouldn't not be shocked if her upcoming storyline flopped or was over sold even though I'm willing to give the writers a chance but hey at least people are talking and genuinely intrigued about her storyline.

[Cleanqueen]

I see that Brian was indeed honest back in the summer when asked about Felicity's storyline and that he did say her story was making dividends until 5x12. So I get now why she was written that way and why especially towards episode 6-9 she seems detached and closed off, I don't think I've ever seen Emily play her like that unless it was intentional.

And yes all anyone can ask about is Felicity because that's the only character that the most passionate fanbase is interested in anyways. 

[kismet]

3 hours ago, Chaser said:

Or it's S5 and they felt the need to give the show a jolt so they introduced a bunch of new characters in the first half and as such put less focus on the main cast. And Felicity has been in the Lair working all season. Thea and Lance are out in the cold and Diggle missed the first few episodes.

As for lack of story and reducing her to wacky tech girl, they addressed Havenrock at the start and they offed her boyfriend in the MSF in dramatic fashion. They already said she was avoiding and hiding in the Lair. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Per spoilers all this is intentional set up for 5b. Everything bottled up for a darker turn, setting her sights on Prometheus, mingling with cohorts, key role, finding a legacy, etc. I have no idea how the follow up is going to be and it may be a massive disappointment but it doesnt sound like they are cutting screen time and reducing her to a happy disposable techy. It actually sound like the opposite. It sounds like the idea is to let her simmer in the background well they get the boobies settled. Look at the recent synopsis we have, OTA with Felicity taking the B plot in both.

Frankly, Felicity has it the best outside of Oliver. Diggle, Thea and Lance are lacking.

I want nothing more than for what you proposed and an actual storyline for FS about FS. And perhaps the writers will actually deliver on their promises for FS. Nothing in their past work has indicated that what they promise is even close to what they deliver, especially when it comes to females on this show. But it could be a new day in the writers room, who knows?

And I agree that all the main characters have been pushed aside the narrative for the newbies. TQ & QL are essentially doing the same thing they do every season, just on a different set & less fanfare. Dig being shipped off was a new and odd choice. But I believe that was more about not finishing off the Andy story effectively in s4. All of these choices made OQ dependent on people outside of his OTA & family. I don't think the show needed a jolt in s5 of newbies and as the ratings have indicated perhaps the newbies were not as needed as TPTB believed.

I was merely making a critical analysis of what was shown in the season so far. And I do think that putting FS back in a limited role was an intentional choice to put her back in her place as comic tech support relief. FS & Dig together used to be the heart & brain of the Arrow team & mission. But no longer are they the important lifeblood of the mission. It is to be noted that a lot of her previous work has been delegated to Curtis over the past 2 seasons.  And as a viewer, I saw Havenrock to be about Rory. The BF to be about OQ and his pain in killing him. They were only loosely connected to FS. Their excuse that FS is hiding in the lair, is just shorthand PR that they are too lazy to write for her outside of the limited scope of she runs the computers in the lair. Plus since she has no real story outside of the lair, why bother giving her a different set or people to interact in?

And yes, FS character and storyline get the most traction in the media because frankly she is one of the best and most original things to come out of the show. The writers and TPTB are dumb to not use her popularity & originality. But honesty, the writers intelligence is never something I would bank on. And TPTB have been wishy washy about the direction of the show and have not always made the best choices for the show.

[wonderwall]

I honestly don't really get the complaints about Felicity being mistreated especially now that we know about what's going to come up for her... I agree with @Chaser, Felicity DOES have it the best out of everyone on the show (bar Oliver)... 

Also in hindsight - I appreciate the writers pushing Felicity's arc till the midseason because it's clear her arc would've been marginalized by the setting up of the newbs in 5A. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by wonderwall

[kismet]

A critical analysis is not a complaint. It's merely an analysis. And just because she has the best scenario out of heaping pile of crap does not mean its a best scenario for her character or the show. And there is no guarantee that moving forward her arc won't be marginalized because the newbie set-up is over.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, kismet said:

And just because she has the best scenario out of heaping pile of crap does not mean its a best scenario for her character or the show

I really don't understand what you want... Nothing will change unless the EPs and writers change and that will never happen. The best case scenario for Felicity on the show as it is right now, is the best that the character will get. 

12 minutes ago, kismet said:

A critical analysis is not a complaint.

Sorry, but don't you think that critical analyses are essentially statements that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable? They may not outwardly look like complaining, but I still consider them complaints. 

[tangerine95]

I don't think she's been sidelined in an effort to make her into a strictly tech comic relief role, I agree all the main characters got less screentime and focus on their storyline in 5A because they wanted to introduce the newbies. And I agree Felicity has it better than Digg  but especially Thea and Lance who are so far removed, it's like a different show.

Imo her importance to the show or team hasn't been lessened at all. She was still on the team doing what she's always done and was the one who found the newbies and came up with the idea of a new team  which has been the big storyline of 5A and was basically a co leader to them with Oliver. I mean I do think the whole new team storyline being such a focus is totally dumb and unnecessary but that's what they chose and Felicity had a big part in it. Her Havenrock stuff was way too little, i get saving it for later but they should have made it more clear she was avoiding her issues and pushing it down since it seems like that was their intention anyway but it came out looking like she was just fine after her conversation with Rory. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by tangerine95

[kismet]

56 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I really don't understand what you want... Nothing will change unless the EPs and writers change and that will never happen. The best case scenario for Felicity on the show as it is right now, is the best that the character will get. 

Sorry, but don't you think that critical analyses are essentially statements that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable? They may not outwardly look like complaining, but I still consider them complaints. 

Honestly, I'm not here to debate with what you believe. I was making an analysis and that is not a complaint. An analysis is a detailed examination of something, and sometimes that can include negative or unsatisfactory elements. Sometimes it can include positive things. I could make an analysis of s5a that includes some of the positive elements of FS, but I chose not to do that since it has been covered before. We come here to have conversations and make analyses. But sometimes I feel if you say anything critical or negative on this forum of FS you get immediately jumped upon, so its pointless to try to have an open conversation.

And writers and EP do change or are given orders that change the dynamic of the show, so what I want is a more fleshed out and better storyline for FS. I want a show that tells us more about its characters and is not so restricted by its plot points. Every character point for FS has been for plot purposes only. I would like to see her & other characters be more than plot puppets. And I can be critical of the writers room in that they have failed to deliver on a lot of that for s5a. They used her as a vessel to tell the story they wanted to about other people, and not a story about FS. And I will always hope for better for characters that I enjoy. I may have to accept certain things, but accepting that this is the best FS can get is never going to be a sentiment I will agree with.

[BkWurm1]

I think that in general that Felicity and the rest of the regulars from last season have been sidelined and underwritten and reduced in importance to make room for the newly introduced characters, but I also think there is more to it than just that.  (I tend to toss Curtis in as a newly introduced character since he was moved in a totally different direction with the mask.)  I also think that Oliver himself has been reduced in importance and underwritten.  There is such a lack of connected-ness to Arrow right now.  

The team can have a scene all together and still feel emotionally distant and that's such an intensely different feel for Arrow.  Even Oliver and Thea don't really feel connected.  

I get the analysis of how they've written Felicity and I'm not convinced that some of it isn't deliberate to make her a more generic version of herself like Kismet suggested.  Like the complete lack of tonal logic to how Crossover Felicity (and the Newbs even more so) were reacting to Oliver and Co's kidnapping.  There's been a lot of Felicity not having feelings when logically she should have them.  

I do think that she's been written that way both to help set up this upcoming arc AND to strip the "drama" from Arrow that a certain segment last season vocally railed against.  Two birds one stone, so to speak as a part of the attempt to get "back to basics" even if in reality the Felicity and Diggle in seasons 1 & 2 were more emotionally fleshed out than they are now.  

I'm hoping that we'll look back and see that F&D were purposely written more aloof to portray their added trauma that they were coping with, but right now, we haven't been getting that info from the show (or if we have it's been far too subtle for me).  Right now it feels like they are just getting ignored, not that it's a writing choice.   

[insomniadreams88]

I think that one of the reasons for the argument that Felicity has been sidelined for the new characters is because Felicity's the one around the newbies the most. Thea and Lance have been shipped off to City Hall/rehab island. Thea has been in the lair, what, a handful of times? And Lance has been there I think once? So it becomes a matter of seeing things like Felicity in the background with the newbies, having Rene call her "Blondie" and Curtis doing things that Felicity has done herself in the past. 

It's easy to say (and hope) that her behavior in 5A is because of her 5B arc, but looking at it without the interviews/tweets/etc. and just with what we saw in 5A? It really just looks like they decided to eliminate anything that could lead to "drama" by not including feelings where they should have and that the Havenrock stuff was mostly about Rory. 

[Featherhat]

I understand that everyone has their favourite characters and that "Felicity buts heads with Oliver over "Laurel's" miraculous return and is then proven correct" won't be to everyone's taste (especially if you'd hoped LL might be returning for good)" but I'm frustrated that "Felicity is ruining the show" comments have increased this week. What's she supposed to do let Oliver's feelings at seeing LL cloud his judgement? Have one wise crack per episode and then disappear? (Yes I think so). She and Oliver haven't dated in nearly 1 season and she hasn't been at the forefront much at all this season until last week's episode. And it's certainly not ERB's fault that they might be on 3rd BC.

[Mellowyellow]

Are people bitching about her elsewhere?

Haters will hate, and they are not rational so you can't use logic here! I get the impression that for everyone who hates Felicity she also has a very mad devoted following too (meeeee I adore her) so it all evens out in the end!  

[LeighAn]

Basically nine times out of ten they don't rationalise their complaints, they decide that it must be the fault of an entirely fictional character or fictional relationship (and their fans) rather then accept that maybe just maybe the character and the actress just don't work. 

[Chaser]

I haven't noticed an increased in anything but it wouldn't surprise me. This was the big LL/KC returns episode and it sucked in the ratings, was Felicity/Olicity heavy and established another BC.

If you were a KC/BC fan the entire episode was a punch in the face and the show set up Felicity to deliver it.

[dtissagirl]

It's a hell of a statement too. This was the first time the show made a textual attempt to pitch Felicity against [not]Laurel. Fandom's been doing that from day one, but the writing has always avoided making them adversaries.

And this time they KNEW they could totally get away with it too, because 1. they're wrapping up everything Laurel anyway, and 2. it's not just that it's not really Laurel -- it's in fact EVIL Laurel, so they can have Felicity punch her in the face as an actual *heroic* moment.

Then they even went overkill with Curtis telling BS to shut the hell up. I gotta admit, I didn't think they would ever be this blatant about shading Laurel, but also, I'm never ever gonna stop cackling with glee about it. It was fucking awesome.
 

[LeighAn]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

I haven't noticed an increased in anything but it wouldn't surprise me. This was the big LL/KC returns episode and it sucked in the ratings, was Felicity/Olicity heavy and established another BC.

If you were a KC/BC fan the entire episode was a punch in the face and the show set up Felicity to deliver it.

Yeah actually to be fair to that fandom mainly I've seen more crap given to the writers about Tina and how she's not worthy to be Black Canary. 

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

It's a hell of a statement too. This was the first time the show made a textual attempt to pitch Felicity against [not]Laurel. Fandom's been doing that from day one, but the writing has always avoided making them adversaries.

And this time they KNEW they could totally get away with it too, because 1. they're wrapping up everything Laurel anyway, and 2. it's not just that it's not really Laurel -- it's in fact EVIL Laurel, so they can have Felicity punch her in the face as an actual *heroic* moment.

Then they even went overkill with Curtis telling BS to shut the hell up. I gotta admit, I didn't think they would ever be this blatant about shading Laurel, but also, I'm never ever gonna stop cackling with glee about it. It was fucking awesome.
 

They also had BS go on about poor pathetic Laurel Lance and not contradict her. Lol

[kismet]

I'm glad FS was right about BS. I'm glad she got to knock her out. I'm not happy about the writers pitting female characters against each other good or bad, esp. when they spent so much of the episode having OQ try to save E2LL. I would have hoped they could have found a better way to paint the picture. OQ did not need to be so in E2LL's corner. A universal questioning of BS's true motives would have been better. Leave the knockout to FS, but they did pit portions of the fandoms against each other, which I don't think was necessary.

[insomniadreams88]

Hey, you could even argue that Felicity was being a better friend to the actual Laurel than Oliver in this episode because BS was going around pretending to be their dead friend and Felicity rightfully so just wasn't having it and refused to see any good in her after that. 

[BkWurm1]

22 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I understand that everyone has their favourite characters and that "Felicity buts heads with Oliver over "Laurel's" miraculous return and is then proven correct" won't be to everyone's taste (especially if you'd hoped LL might be returning for good)" but I'm frustrated that "Felicity is ruining the show" comments have increased this week. What's she supposed to do let Oliver's feelings at seeing LL cloud his judgement? Have one wise crack per episode and then disappear? (Yes I think so). She and Oliver haven't dated in nearly 1 season and she hasn't been at the forefront much at all this season until last week's episode. And it's certainly not ERB's fault that they might be on 3rd BC.

This is it exactly.  Felicity's very existence is problematic to some so shutting up except to make a few jokes and relay info dumps before vanishing is all they'd be ok with, otherwise, she's being made too important to the show.  Of course why that is a problem varies for different people and could be a combo of reasons.  

Some may have objected because of her threat to Laurel's position on the show.  Some objected because of IMO misogynistic reasons (girl stuff is icky) Some for Comic Book reasons. Some may even actually not like her personality.  And then there is that group that blame Felicity for anything they don't like about Oliver.  It's the same kind of stuff I used to hear about Chloe helping Clark on Smallville; there is this contingent that really hates Superheroes needing, relying, or being influenced by other people.  

If Oliver loses too many fights, he's distracted or Felicity is making him weak.  If he doesn't want to be a vigilante because of the darkness he lets inside, somehow Felicity brainwashed him.  He's more emotional than the viewer wants (or not emotional enough) it's Felicity's fault.  Oliver is doing something dumb, well they have to make him look dumb to give Felicity something to do.  It's not just wanting the hero to do it all, but a way to absolve him of anything they don't like about his character.  Felicity is often IMO just the most prominent scapegoat.  

I've heard praise for this season because Oliver has been doing so much all on his own.  (Which for me negates the most important lessons he's learned)  And anything that I see as really stupid, like Susan is actually Oliver being really smart, wait and see, or at least, hey she's hot so why not!  

So I guess that's all my way of saying that cries that Felicity is ruining the show suddenly don't bother me.  Annoy me but not bother me.  I swear it's always the same kind of thing on any show where there is a main hero and anyone dares to be an equal (while wearing high heels.)   

Edited January 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Tazmania]

On 1/29/2017 at 10:06 PM, insomniadreams88 said:

Hey, you could even argue that Felicity was being a better friend to the actual Laurel than Oliver in this episode because BS was going around pretending to be their dead friend and Felicity rightfully so just wasn't having it and refused to see any good in her after that. 

It also means that Felicity knew real Laurel better than Oliver which is not really surprising because the show has told us many times that Felicity is very astute while Oliver is more self absorbed in general and never really paid much attention to Laurel in particular ... 

[kismet]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

What focus did Felicity get in seasons 1-2? And actually, she was potential love interest since the start of season 2, so I guess her "drop in her own character" should have started then.

I did not see her written as a LI in s2. I mean may be a dark horse cuz i was rooting for O/F, but was written as OQs partner not LI. In s2 I saw her as a vital part of the Team. So perhaps adding more people to the team also contributed to the drop. I just liked it better when her role was not about propping up her LIs, having a new LI or taking over the job her LI was fired from after another LI handed it over to her. 

FS may have had thg talents and skills to be CEO, but per the show that is not how she got the job. Perhaps they should have let her keep it and I would have believed they actually wanted to show her in leadership role outside of the lair.

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

It wouldn't matter if the show focused 95% on Felicity as an individual and 5% on her romantic relationship. Clearly, the fans will only focus on the 5% and dismiss the 95%.

Look at S5. Her semi-BF was nothing. We got zero development of their romantic relationship, barely any screentime. He was just a roadblock for Olicity and another straw to break to push Felicity towards her dark arc. But some are acting like Felicity spent all of 5A sleeping with him instead of you know doing things like putting together this new Team. He was literally introduced to die so she can be propelled in a new direction. How come when that happens for the Male Lead its an actual storyline but when the roles are reversed the Female Lead is just banging people?

I really do get that S3 and S4 featured less than satisfactory storylines for Felicity, but she did more than just sleep with a couple of guys. She kind of saved the day a few times, make some big moves in her professional life and explored some of her family dynamics.

The fact that they dropped her professional life & family by the end one season to me diminished their importance to the overall story of Arrow. If they really wanted her to be a CEO they didn't have to have her lose the company. It was cuz they got tired with writing those parts. Frankly, they never knew how to write her as a CEO. Her father SL was a bust for me after all the build up.

I said banging because that is all the really showed me of her & Billy. I would say the same thing about OQ & reporter chick.

I know FS did more than sleep with guys. But the emphasis was never look at all these amazing things FS does. For me s1 & s2 highlighted that FS can do cool, intelligent and unique things with tech. They passed a lot of those traits off to Ray, Cisco, & Curtis. So FS unique skill set diminished, it also happened right around the time she got promoted to LI. So maybe its just coincidental. And now she is stuck on comms, when the entire cast is in the field. To me the optics are not what they used to be when TA was smaller and FS love life was not a plot point.

And I personally do look at the character as a whole. The difference is I think her relationships have taken up more than 5%. And even with her accomplishments outside of romance, its her time spent on her LIs that stick out the most. Even the first episode devoted to FS was really about her ex-BF.

For me, s3 was not about FS in a relationship - it was about RP. Palmer tech in s4 was about Curtis. Havenrock in s5 became about Rory. FS has never had a major SL independent of a male character. When has her major story arc ever been just about her? They even made her paralysis recovery be about Curtis & her break-up. S1 & s2 may not have had FS in the focus, but at least her screentime was about her & TA.

[LeighAn]

19 minutes ago, kismet said:

I did not see her written as a LI in s2. I mean may be a dark horse cuz i was rooting for O/F, but was written as OQs partner not LI. In s2 I saw her as a vital part of the Team. So perhaps adding more people to the team also contributed to the drop. I just liked it better when her role was not about propping up her LIs, having a new LI or taking over the job her LI was fired from after another LI handed it over to her. 

I think the point trying to be made was that even if people didn't see Felicity as a love interest in season 2, the writers by their own omission began writing her as a love interest as of season 2.

I think when it comes to Felicitys storylines or any character not named Oliver it's very much an expectation vs reality thing. Brian or Marc spelled the show out once that ANY characters storyline must always relate to or inform Olivers journey or character. That's the show, rightly or wrongly. So it's not just Felicity who is singled out every characters storyline is largely about or propping Oliver to an extent and it has been that way since the shows inception. 

Oliver will always take the A plot of an episode and the others have to battle it out for B C D.

I for one appreciate that at the very least Felicity is being given a little more autonomy as a character in her storyline this season and while I'd love more from the storyline and if we had less newbies around there would have been more time to give to her storyline, Felicitys Helix storyline has been the bright spot in a rather tepid season.  

[kismet]

I don't mind the show revolving around OQ. It is his show. But I think the failures in FS SLs runs deeper than making it relate back to OQ. I know I'm the minority opinion, but what made FS great in s1 & s2 was that she didn't need other men to make her interesting. Her accomplishments were her own and were not given to the newest male to join the show. 

I was invested because of her. I didnt need Ray, Rory, Curtis or even Olicity. S3 & s4 let me down by being too much about other people. s5 has barely even made a blip on my interest meter. I have ffwd thru her scenes, not all but some & I never would have imagined that a few seasons ago. Perhaps Helix will be different,  however I'm not holding my breath. 

FS moreso than any of the other characters have been used to prop characters. And part of that is because of EBRs chemistry. None of the other characters have had season long prop jobs for multiple seasons. I guess I'm just tired of it. I think they pigeon holed FS as LI or character prop, so her writing always falls shallow and short. 

I know people love her here. So I hate being critical of the character. But I don't think they have done right by her. And I don't think the writing has done her character & its potential justice. The reasons might be multifactorial, but I do think a major part of the reason is because she switched from person on TA to being a LI.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, kismet said:

I know people love her here. So I hate being critical of the character. But I don't think they have done right by her. And I don't think the writing has done her character & its potential justice. The reasons might be multifactorial, but I do think a major part of the reason is because she switched from person on TA to being a LI.

I love Felicity but I don't think they've done right by her character either (although I don't think they've done right by any character on this show).

I mainly have minor issues where she's used to prop other characters to her own detriment (they've made her OOC quite a few times for this reason) but one of my main issues comes from the inconsistencies, especially last season. She was mad that Oliver lied to her, and rightly so. I was totally on her side and she was right to end things, especially when she heard him sending his son away without telling her. You'd think he'd want to confide in his soon-to-be-wife, especially when Felicity knows what it's like to grow up without a father. So I understand all of her actions with regards to the baby mama drama.

But then later in the season she found out that Donna had lied to her about her dad her whole life and she just shrugged it off and hugged her, like it was no big deal. That's where they did a bit of damage to Felicity, IMO, because it was a big deal. Donna's lie basically shaped who Felicity was as a person and how she struggled with issues of abandonment. And it was those issues that played into her relationship with Oliver. 

Being so angry about Oliver's lie and being totally fine with Donna's lie (that lasted for twenty years) is one of the most inconsistent things they've done. And it's really frustrating because it could've been so easily fixed, as with most things on this show. Sigh.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

53 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But then later in the season she found out that Donna had lied to her about her dad her whole life and she just shrugged it off and hugged her, like it was no big deal. That's where they did a bit of damage to Felicity, IMO, because it was a big deal. Donna's lie basically shaped who Felicity was as a person and how she struggled with issues of abandonment. And it was those issues that played into her relationship with Oliver. 

Being so angry about Oliver's lie and being totally fine with Donna's lie (that lasted for twenty years) is one of the most inconsistent thing they've done. And it's really frustrating because it could've been so easily fixed, as with most things on this show. Sigh.

Very true. But I think that has more to do with the fact that they wanted to resolve any Smoak family issues in that episode - and that they haven't brought either of Felicity's parents back and don't seem to have any plans to - than any consideration about what it did to Felicity's character. The best thing they could do is bring it up during a conversation Oliver and Felicity have about their relationship, but outside of that happening (and I think there's a very slim chance it will), I just don't think it will be explored - and that affects how Felicity's character is seen. 

[way2interested]

43 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Being so angry about Oliver's lie and being totally fine with Donna's lie (that lasted for twenty years) is one of the most inconsistent thing they've done. And it's really frustrating because it could've been so easily fixed, as with most things on this show. Sigh.

That bothered me too because seeing it I thought that it was going to come up again in 423 as a way to start the reconciliation process between Oliver and Felicity. Not that she'd automatically forgive Oliver as well, but show how inconsistent it was and idk I guess reason that if she can automatically forgive her mother theoretically because she loves her that there was still hope for Oliver's second chance because despite his lie too she still loves him? But instead, it just fizzled out into nothing and was even left up in the air at the end of 422 since right after she told Curtis about it and Curtis questioned the logic (in a weird way as well), Darhk came in. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Very true. But I think that has more to do with the fact that they wanted to resolve any Smoak family issues in that episode - and that they haven't brought either of Felicity's parents back and don't seem to have any plans to - than any consideration about what it did to Felicity's character. The best thing they could do is bring it up during a conversation Oliver and Felicity have about their relationship, but outside of that happening (and I think there's a very slim chance it will), I just don't think it will be explored - and that affects how Felicity's character is seen. 

That's probably accurate and it makes it even worse. They care so little about her character that they'll wrap up a storyline, even if it doesn't make sense. They never want to give anything any time or flesh anything out. It's so annoying.

[statsgirl]

By the time Felicity heard Donna say that it was her decision to leave Noah but she did it because Noah was doing bad things, Felicity had learned that

• Noah was the foe she was battling to safe the lives of hundreds of people before he cut off the electrical grid (or something like that);
• he had tried to use her to steal tech from her company;
• she found out that he had known for years where she was but hadn't cared enough about her to contact her.

So when Donna said "I took you away to protect you", Felicity could understand and maybe even agree with her.

All lies are not equal.   I agree that the show should have spent some time on Felicity's reaction but it was a completely different situation than Oliver's lie. 

[tangerine95]

I do think Donna's lie was different and Noah was clearly a shady guy so it makes sense if she left and I get Felicity forgiving her after she found out more about Noah.Felicity basically forgave Oliver's lie too, she just doesn't seem to trust him not to lie again.

 What bothered me was that Donna was actually milking the whole he abandoned us thing tbh. Like she kept bringing it up in her previous appearances and it clearly affected Felicity to think her dad left her. But that was probably a last minute decision to make Donna the one who left so they have some illogical parallel to Oliver's lie imo. And I also hated how Donna apologized and then went and did the same thing when she told Noah to leave behind Felicity's back. That's a weird thing to do if they are never going to adress it or make it an issue for them. 

[dtissagirl]

I think there's also a past lie vs. present lie factor going in. Felicity's very practical. There wasn't really anything she could do to change the past. She could've been mad at Donna, sure, but there was nothing Felicity could do that would change anything. Oliver lied about something that would have affected Felicity's future, and that she could change. Which she did by breaking up with him.

The part that bugged me was that Donna told Noah to scram again, behind Felicity's back again, and the story completely forgot about that, and I'm pretty sure the writers don't even remember Felicity has parents anymore.

[statsgirl]

14 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

And I also hated how Donna apologized and then went and did the same thing when she told Noah to leave behind Felicity's back.

Yeah, she should have told Felicity that she was the one who told Noah to leave, especially since she knew how Felicity reacted to Oliver's lie.  Bad Donna.

On the other hand, Noah is a big ass man and he didn't have to leave if he didn't want to.  But he did without even saying good-bye.

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

the story completely forgot about that, and I'm pretty sure the writers don't even remember Felicity has parents anymore.

Felicity has parents?  I know Lance talked to Oliver about his ex girlfriend...

Edited February 21, 2017 by statsgirl

[Guest]

Sure, the lies were different and they were for different reasons. But I still think Felicity should have had a bigger reaction than "Meh, whatever, I forgive you" so instantly after 20 years. But YMMV.

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Sure, the lies were different and they were for different reasons. But I still think Felicity should have had a bigger reaction than "Meh, whatever, I forgive you" so instantly after 20 years. But YMMV.

I can understand this, especially after Felicity told her father she hated herself growing up in 413. It's like they completely forgot about that scene when it came to Felicity's reaction to Donna's lie. And that was what, only 7-8 episodes before? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I can understand this, especially after Felicity told her father she hated herself growing up in 413. It's like they completely forgot about that scene when it came to Felicity's reaction to Donna's lie. And that was what, only 7-8 episodes before? 

Exactly. She had that whole scene where she wondered what was so wrong with her that her own father didn't stick around. That's a horrible consequence of Donna's lie, even if she was trying to protect her in the long run. I mean, Donna actually called Felicity a "pistachio" about how she never opens herself up and keeps her feelings to herself. Um, maybe that's because she was protecting herself as a result of her abandonment issues that Donna played a major part in creating? I'm just...I will never understand why Felicity forgave her so easily. It deserved more than that one moment.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Guest