Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[kismet]

According to MG tumblr, from one of the posts it says she graduated at either 21/22. Which isnt too far off from the normal graduation age. I myself graduated at 22 along with all of my friends who were. My sister who is a December baby graduated @ 21, but then stayed a year and completed her masters in education thru an accelerated program. So my point is that, if Felicity was in a consolidated program track that granted a bachelors & masters together, it is not unreasonable that she would have graduated young, esp if she stayed @ MIT during summers to earn credits and take classes. I really don't see her heading back to Vegas, so probably she just worked through her breaks. So although I feel she is highly intelligent and skilled, I do not think it was a scenario where she was significantly younger than her peers. I think she is awesome, but I don't think her educational trajectory is dramatically different from many smart driven people with the goods to back it up.

 

As for her job in the IT dept, we all take whatever jobs we can get when we graduated. I myself started at a more secretarial position even though I was overqualified for the job, simply because it was an amazing Hospital. Similarly, QC was a international conglomerate so it would have been a highly respectable company to work for. Once you're in the company then its easier to find the role/dept that best suits you. The amt of time in the company probably correlated to her job level, which would be closer to entry level than executive. I agree, she wasn't your typical IT help desk person. Even her office indicated that she was probably working on some computer based tech for QC, she might have called herself an IT girl, but I doubt that's what her job requirements were. RP seemed to know about her work which indicates that she was doing a lot more for QC. Felicity is a strong female, but I don't always think she truly understands her value/worth. Multiple members of TA, Flash & RP have told her spoken of her value, said she was irreplaceable, followed her talent, but she hasn't fully believed them. I hope that will change as the season progresses, she already seems more confident in her worth.

 

Her year as OQ EA probably took some of momentum of her rise in the tech field. But to be honest, I never really saw OQ utilizing her as secretarial staff. In big companies CEOs have multiple secretaries. He probably let her spend her time designing tech for the Arrow that he could explain as being part of OQ. I am excited that RP put her back in the applied sciences division because I think it is a better opportunity for her to develop tech. And if OQ does come back to the company, its a way they can work together on a more even partnership professionally, similar to how they work together as equal partners on TA. Honestly, I never had an issue w/ her being his EA. It seemed logical to me that he would want to keep his closest partners, closest to him in an unfamiliar environment. I never thought he felt that Felicity/Dig was only good enough to be his EA/driver. He just wanted his team around him to support him in his new role, and didn't know how to explain their presence. He had zero business experience, so he probably thought it was the most logical place for them under the circumstances. He really should spend some of his free time earning a business degree. RP had an edge in placing Felicity because he had the business acumen to know how to get her into that role if there was board objection. Plus RP wanted her help for his suit, he didn't need her around to discuss secret saving the city plans day in and day out. Clearly, its been mentioned that OQ was not the best CEO, so the company & board were able to recognize Felicity's potential, her role as EA probably helped RP justify placing her in her current role. After all, she was the one who was interacting with the board to get him the meeting to take back the company. In 3 years since joining the company, she had acquired both executive & tech experience, which is a good combination for her current role as VP.

[calliope1975]

After all, she was the one who was interacting with the board to get him the meeting to take back the company. In 3 years since joining the company, she had acquired both executive & tech experience, which is a good combination for her current role as VP.

 

I agree. Last year, I took a higher position at my job after being an admin asst. for many years. By being an admin though, I had access and interaction to all the top exec and the board members. I sat in those meetings only as support, but as a result of being there got to hear how the decisions were made and how they came up with our policies. I've even asked my supervisors to give me a greater role in our committees/negotiations which my position generally isn't involved in because sitting in those boring committee meetings actually helps me out in my new job (we're a labor union.) 

 

I can absolutely see how Felicity made herself known both to Walter and to other board members as intelligent, resourceful, and willing to work hard. She had to wrangle the Oliver Queen he put out to the public after all. I'm sure an eyebrow or two or more were raised when she became VP, but anyone who had known her would know it was more than just a glorified title. She had the capabilities to actually do the job. 

[BkWurm1]

I could be wrong but I thought there was this subtextual overtone to that scene of Felicity really speaking to Oliver in her grief.  So when she said "Anna wouldn't want", she subconsciously was talking about herself, and her lashing out at Ray was really lashing out at Oliver.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I absolutely agree, but Ray wouldn't have known that and I think that is kind of why when he got upset Felicity suddenly realized what she was saying and that she shouldn't be attempting to have this conversation.   She was Anna in the conversation  and it was only partly about Ray but of course Ray isn't going to hear what the audience could.  I don't hold it against Felicity in the slightest. 

 

According to MG tumblr, from one of the posts it says she graduated at either 21/22.

 

It is a contradiction so I'd be hesitant to take stock in it until there is some clarification.  The incident with Cooper was five-ish years earlier and she is now supposed to be 25 and we know she had been working at least since she was 21-22 (3 years on the show).  Either she was just fresh out of college or it had been about 2 something years and Felicity in season one didn't feel like a just graduated from college person.  She was established in her job, she felt comfortable, she was known and in her rant to Walter she called herself the most valuable person in the department including her so called supervisors and I just fell that says she'd been there for a while.  I'm more inclined to go with 19-20 than 21-22 for the correct graduation date.  

 

Maybe he got mixed up or misunderstood the question since the person was from Germany and the implied question was when do Americans normally graduate from college (Which I guess other countries often just refer to it as University)

Edited January 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Good call! If anyone can ID the triangle necklace, I'd love you forever. Worn On TV doesn't have it listed.

 

This site has the triangle necklace information… https://arrowfashionblog.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/felicity-3x10-left-behind/

[calliope1975]

This site has the triangle necklace information… https://arrowfashionblog.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/felicity-3x10-left-behind/

 

Yay! Thank you!

[Ariah]

I've been watching Hart of Dixie and it occured to me - if they ever want to do an episode with teenage Felicity, they should jus take the actress who plays Rose there:

 

 

McKaley Miller is the name and her antics remind me so much of Felicity. Plus, she has dark blonde haie (dark ash) so - present day Felicity would really dye her hair.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Ariah

[Morrigan2575]

I could see it

[BkWurm1]

This was posted over in the Spoilers Thread - not a spoiler

 

I am sorry to say, I 100% feel that it means she doesn't/didn't love Oliver.  Flirting with a new guy is not something a person does when mourning a newly-dead love.  MAYBE some we're-not-dead sex, but not flirting.  I get that it's just stupid writing, etc., but that is still what she did in the show.  I don't mean to intrude with real life too much, but imagine your female friend's husband dies in combat, and ONE WEEK later, she's flirting with her boss? 
No way you'd believe she was in love with her husband.  I get that this is tv time, so we can't see her mourn for years, but if he comes back next week that means she couldn't hold off for TWO WEEKS.  And I know he's not dead, but she doesn't.  I personally think it's despicable and a bit creepy, and if my friend behaved like that, I'd be pretty much done with the friendship.

 

So it’s acceptable that she have sex but after a friend puts himself in front of a machine gun and nearly dies and then confesses that he’s come to care for you so much that you’ve become a major reason for him wanting to be a hero, a woman can’t share a tiny smile and not be touched for two seconds without it being despicable, creepy and proof she never loved her lost loved one ??

 

She wasn’t flirting.  There was no banter.  No light hearted batting of the eyes or touches for no reason.  Yes, she was standing close and doctoring him up but the cut he wore came from a brush with near death.  Isn’t it reasonable that Felicity would be shaken that yet another friend had been in mortal danger?  Isn’t it in her nature and hasn’t it been her habit to attend to wounds? 

 

Then at the end of the episode she gave him a quantum processor and she was upbeat after a win against Brick and refinding a purpose that let her step out her fog.  Plus she was pumped that with her help at the start, maybe she’d found a way of saving this friend from dying.  Again, she wasn’t flirting, she just found a reason in that moment to be not miserable.  It’s the nature of grief to eventually realize you will have reasons to smile.  Not everyone has to stay covered in ashes and beat themselves while wailing to still be grieving. 

 

Felicity did nothing to make me think she didn’t love Oliver.

Edited February 1, 2015 by BkWurm1

[romantic idiot]

The problem is she responded. She smiled - not an awkward smile, not an absentminded smile, not a weirded out small acknowledging smile at this platonic friend saying he cares about her, but a soft, loving, happy smile. To me it read like a smile of realisation - this guy's cute and I'm glad he has feelings for me. My problem is, that I don't think, if Felicity had really been in love with Oliver, that she would have been in a headspace that allowed for that realisation. Plus, really, she's the one who made it romantic. He said he cared about her - that could have been platonic. Her smile of pleasure at his saying he cared for her? That was not platonic IMO and it was really jarring to me. 

 

Having said that, my head canon (till the show says otherwise) is that this is an actress screw up. While EBR is head and shoulders over the rest of the women in the current cast, she's no Kristen Bell or Allison Mack (ETA: or Allison Brie) so she just screwed up and made the smile more "love"ly than it was written.  That's my wank and i'm sticking to it. 

 

Till they prove me wrong within the first 5 min of the next episode, of course. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by romantic idiot

[apinknightmare]

My wank is that the smile was her genuinely being touched that he wants to protect her (and that he did protect her when someone pointed a gun at her) and by telling her that he wants to build the suit to protect the people he cares about (she said, "like the city?" or something like that) that she does care about the city-it's her city, and that could be her reason for continuing on. She told Laurel as much, and that was her reasoning getting back into the fold when she went back down to the lair. I just think there wasn't enough nuance there in the acting to get that across.

[jay741982]

This was posted over in the Spoilers Thread - not a spoiler

 

So it’s acceptable that she have sex but after a friend puts himself in front of a machine gun and nearly dies and then confesses that he’s come to care for you so much that you’ve become a major reason for him wanting to be a hero, a woman can’t share a tiny smile and not be touched for two seconds without it being despicable, creepy and proof she never loved her lost loved one ??

 

She wasn’t flirting.  There was no banter.  No light hearted batting of the eyes or touches for no reason.  Yes, she was standing close and doctoring him up but the cut he wore came from a brush with near death.  Isn’t it reasonable that Felicity would be shaken that yet another friend had been in mortal danger?  Isn’t it in her nature and hasn’t it been her habit to attend to wounds? 

 

Then at the end of the episode she gave him a quantum processor and she was upbeat after a win against Brick and refinding a purpose that let her step out her fog.  Plus she was pumped that with her help at the start, maybe she’d found a way of saving this friend from dying.  Again, she wasn’t flirting, she just found a reason in that moment to be not miserable.  It’s the nature of grief to eventually realize you will have reasons to smile.  Not everyone has to stay covered in ashes and beat themselves while wailing to still be grieving. 

 

Felicity did nothing to make me think she didn’t love Oliver.

I love this Post! I agree!

[romantic idiot]

IMO, flirting does not need words. At its core it is a glance and a smlle, indicating openness. So I'm afraid I don't agree with that post above. Having said that, I am willing to concede (desperately) that I am misreading what the actress was trying to convey. I hope to god you guys are right.

[Password]

Eh. Regardless, writing that scene in was bad taste. Ray is shameless.

[AyChihuahua]

 

 

She wasn’t flirting.  SNIP.

It’s the nature of grief to eventually realize you will have reasons to smile.  Not everyone has to stay covered in ashes and beat themselves while wailing to still be grieving.

I'm not the one who said they were flirting, that was the general consensus of these boards.  I am not watching these episodes and most likely won't be watching the show anymore.  And I have known people who lost loved ones in real life, and of course many television characters who have lost loved ones, and none of them, ever, have flirted with a new guy immediately, much less ONE WEEK after the violent and heroic death of the person they were in love with.  Literally zero.  

Edited February 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

IMO, flirting does not need words. At its core it is a glance and a smlle, indicating openness. So I'm afraid I don't agree with that post above. Having said that, I am willing to concede (desperately) that I am misreading what the actress was trying to convey. I hope to god you guys are right.

I agree with you, but I don't think a fond smile towards a guy Felicity is obviously friends with and felt compelled to kiss at one point not too long ago negates or lessens the feelings she had for Oliver at all. She and Oliver weren't together. He took himself out of the running. He didn't do anything before he left that led her to believe things would be different when he returned, so what exactly is she dishonoring by smiling at Ray? Yeah, Oliver told her he loved her before he left, but he's done that how many times in how many ways and never did a damn thing about it? She let him know in The Calm that once he backed off that was it.

She'd already been trying to move on from Oliver, it's not like that was something that happened only after he died. Oliver was not an option for her by HIS choice, so I'm not going to judge her for smiling at a guy who stood in front of a machine gun to keep her from getting shot and told her cared about her enough that he'd do it again, especially when that moment sparked something in her that made her want to want to go back to the foundry.

She doesn't know Oliver decided he didn't want to die down in the lair. She doesn't know his last thought before he died was of her. She doesn't know he dreamed of her. Yes, that's the problem with telling such a one-sided story with Oliver being so open towards her and Felicity being so closed off to him, but I'm not faulting the character for that. That smile made me uncomfortable, but that's because I know things that she doesn't. And also because I want Ray to rocket off into the sun. We know she loves Oliver. To what extent has she let herself realize it? Is it something she's compartmentalizing to keep herself from hurting? IDK. Hopefully we find out soon.

Edited February 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Agree to disagree.  IMO one week is not long enough to move on from the death of a person one is in love with, even in tv-time.  She is/has moved on, ergo, she wasn't in love with him.

[HighHopes]

Agree to disagree.  IMO one week is not long enough to move on from the death of a person one is in love with, even in tv-time.  She is/has moved on, ergo, she wasn't in love with him.

But Felicity started moving on from Oliver back in October. It wasn't like she and Oliver were dating and then he died and then she moved on. And we still don't know if Felicity has admitted that she was in love with Oliver, because the show hasn't told us that yet. We have heard other people tell her how she feels, but not her. And there's a difference between thinking about moving on and actually moving on. 

 

Everyone grieves differently, in 3 months Sara died, Felicity's college boyfriend came back from the dead and tried to kill her, and she started and immediately ended a relationship with Oliver- who besides the fact that he has said multiple times that he cannot be with her ever, has told her he loves her repeatedly. Girl is probably a little bit messed up emotionally. And when you are messed up emotionally, you may do things that you normally wouldn't.  

 

Do I believe that Felicity loves Oliver? Yes. Do I also think that she hasn't admitted that yet, because loving Oliver means she can get hurt? Yes. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by HighHopes

[Chiny11]

Well as an Olicity shipper even I don't know if she was/is in love with Oliver. I mean, I believe she had/has feelings for him but she hasn't said she loved/loves him (when talking to Barry about Oliver on Flash she didn't say she loved Oliver). Strong feelings? Yes. Love? I am no longer going to assume that till she actually says it.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Chiny11

[apinknightmare]

Agree to disagree. IMO one week is not long enough to move on from the death of a person one is in love with, even in tv-time. She is/has moved on, ergo, she wasn't in love with him.

Yeah, given that I actually watched the ep, we will have to agree to disagree.

[BkWurm1]

I'm not the one who said they were flirting, that was the general consensus of these boards.  I am not watching these episodes and most likely won't be watching the show anymore.

 

I would genuinely recommend that you view the scene.  Here's a link, the scene in question starts up at the 50 second mark.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CeoEtB9AnUU&x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404#t=59

 

The majority of the scene is completely platonic.  Even when Ray confesses his mission has now become about protecting the city, Felicity very deadpan says, "You mean the city?" without a hint of an idea that he's talking about her.  When he says "I mean you." there is a moment where she looks flattered but there's no moment where she's flirting back.  And then in the next scene she's in at Laurel's office she's just barely holding her grief back. 

 

I would recommend everyone rewatch the scene.  Ray's look and the light music in the background proclaim it as a moment, but on rewatch,, Felicity is barely reacting to him, like I said, the tiniest hint of a smile and then a wide pan camera shot where she looks down, slightly flattered and embarrassed.  No flirting.  Just no putting him in his place or getting upset with what he said. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

 

Yeah, given that I actually watched the ep, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

That is kind of rude.  As I've said, the general consensus on these boards is that she was flirting with Ray.  Obviously if she wasn't, then the calculus changes, and I simply dislike her for the Quentin thing.

Edited February 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

That is kind of rude. As I've said, the general consensus on these boards is that she was flirting with Ray. Obviously if she wasn't, then the calculus changes, and I simply dislike her for the Quentin thing.

I'm not being rude. Your opinion based on other people's interpretation of one smile in a 42-minute episode is that she didn't love Oliver and that she's moved on. I watched the episode, which consisted of several other scenes that indicate she hasn't moved on. I'm debating with you about something I've watched and you haven't. It's pointless.

[TanyaKay]

I fail to understand the whole moving on part. Even if we are to believe that Felicity did not think of Oliver as a romantic option for her because he took himself away, he was still a person closest to her and his death affected her - a lot. She was literally walking like a zombie through 2/3rd of the episode and the only time I felt her being energetic was when she came asking to borrow the helicopter.

Oliver, may or may not be a romantic option in Felicity's head, he was still the person closest to her. She loved him dearly and was mourning him. As another person who actually watched the entire season, I can vouch for her feelings for Oliver.

Edited February 1, 2015 by TanyaKay

[Chaser]

I would genuinely recommend that you view the scene.  Here's a link, the scene in question starts up at the 50 second mark.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CeoEtB9AnUU&x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404#t=59

 

The majority of the scene is completely platonic.  Even when Ray confesses his mission has now become about protecting the city, Felicity very deadpan says, "You mean the city?" without a hint of an idea that he's talking about her.  When he says "I mean you." there is a moment where she looks flattered but there's no moment where she's flirting back.  And then in the next scene she's in at Laurel's office she's just barely holding her grief back. 

 

I would recommend everyone rewatch the scene.  Ray's look and the light music in the background proclaim it as a moment, but on rewatch,, Felicity is barely reacting to him, like I said, the tiniest hint of a smile and then a wide pan camera shot where she looks down, slightly flattered and embarrassed.  No flirting.  Just no putting him in his place or getting upset with what he said. 

Thanks for link. Personally, I think people are making way to big a deal out of it. I got slightly embarrassed from that smile too. The biggest problem with that screen is it does show that Ray and Felicity are friends, but that really isn't something the fans have seen much. Now that we are getting to see them comfortable around each other, it looks awkward in the context of Oliver's 'dead'. But there was nothing in Felicity's actions in that scene that I would say were inappropriate.  

Edited February 1, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[doesntworkonwood]

I personally did think that the scene had romantic undertones. Talk of saving Felicity and the romantic music, along with the look etc. That doesn't necessarily mean that Felicity was flirting, but I do feel that the writers seem to be attempting to set something romantic up between them. It does feel like it's more on Ray's side however, and by god I hope it stays that way. 

 

I don't think that this scene, in particular, reflects badly on Felicity, I think it reflects far worse on Ray (dude, she told you a week ago that she'd just lost someone she was more than friends with). 

[Password]

Firstly the helicopter scene is funny. More of this Ray...in other words more of this writers.

Hmm the dreaded scene. It started out pretty innocent, but I would agree with @apinknightmare's earlier assessment that it was just a little uncomfortable. Not flirting per say, but unearned maybe? I really wish they just laid a solid friendship foundation before any romance. With Oliver's romances I could roll my eyes but I'd watch it. With Ray I'm like "give me strength". If he continues to be a FRIEND I'd much more enjoy their interaction. But they tend to chuck in "uncomfortable" scenes here and there that annoy me.

I don't think that this scene, in particular, reflects badly on Felicity, I think it reflects far worse on Ray (dude, she told you a week ago that she'd just lost someone she was more than friends with).

This absolutely.

[Chaser]

I would describe it as pre-romantic. I feel the whole scene was so that in a couple episodes when/IF PLEASE they go out, the audience can't say it came out of no where. 

 

I do agree that the helicopter scene was funny. If there was more of that and less of necklace-borrowing-dress-borrowing-phone-pinging Ray, it could be a really fun dynamic between Felicity and Ray. I still don't know if I would want it to go past platonic, but buddy Ray would be great.

[Genki]

It seems to me that Felicity wasn't opposed to what Ray was put out there. Which makes me sad.

It is open to interpretation, but for me, I'm uncomfortable with the vibe. 

 

What makes me annoyed was Ray's, underlying paternalistic attitude, "I must protect you".

[Password]

I would describe it as pre-romantic. I feel the whole scene was so that in a couple episodes when/IF PLEASE they go out, the audience can't say it came out of no where.

That's pretty much what I think. But it's still "hold up no" for me. Uncomfortable. Oh Ray Ray.

I actually read the light score as a sort of come-to-realisation music.

I'm confused is Ray from Starling? And his main offices are in Central city or? He said he wants yo protect people he cares about? Are there more in Starling?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Limbo

[Carrie Ann]

I've watched the entire season, several episodes/scenes multiple times, and I remain uncomfortable with the way they've portrayed Felicity in several instances--the OOC stuff in Guilty and this Sara voice thing--but also in her dynamic with both Oliver and Ray. It's not just this episode, for me, it's a culmination of a season's worth of seeing and hearing so little from Felicity herself, and of moments that cause cognitive dissonance for me. That dissonance stems from the fact that I had certain beliefs about her feelings for Oliver and about the strength of their relationship, and there have been several moments that gave me that immediate "No, that's not right" reaction. The two scenes with Ray are examples of that for me, in that I did read the flirty vibe in them. (And there are many people, here and around the internet, whose gut feeling was the same. This isn't a matter of watching this or any other scene in the right or wrong way. It's a matter of perception, and opinions based on our different perceptions.)

 

And I'm going to take the rest of this to the Relationships thread.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

Thing is, I can't even put a fine point on why that smile made me uncomfortable. She was moving on in Ray's direction even before Oliver died. Nothing happened between her and Oliver between The Calm and The Climb that would've made her dating Ray wrong to me, as long as I put my personal feelings about him aside. Yeah, he told her he loved her, but he'd said as much before and he didn't get her hopes up with a "when I come back we're gonna figure this thing out'." Much as we joke about how they're "so married," they weren't. They weren't even dating. How is she disrespecting Oliver's memory by smiling at a guy who tells her he cares for her and wants to protect her? I didn't expect her to tell Ray she couldn't get in a relationship with him because she loved a man she couldn't be with when Oliver was alive, why would I expect her to do that when he's dead? Is it unfair to get into a relationship with someone when you're in love with someone else? Yeah, but that's true whether the someone else is dead or not.

I wish she would've told him a definitive no, but that would be more for my benefit than for hers, haha.

Edited February 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

One of the problems for me is a lack of Felicity's voice. It's been mentioned here a few times already, and it's a very valid point of contention. We SEE her moving in on Ray, we SEE her telling Oliver she won't wait for him. But we also hear about the impossible dreams and staring while he's not looking from The Flash.

I think the scene is a bit of a mistep because they should allow Ray and Felicity's relationship to grow without the hinderence of Oliver-is-dead hanging over her. We assume she wouldn't even think of moving in on Ray right now but the writers throw us a curve ball when Ray, who knows she's emotionally cut up, makes it clear (to me) that he's an option, and she doesn't blink it away or shut it down some other way. There's something called too soon, regardless of whether or not she was waiting for Oliver.

[romantic idiot]

It seems to me that Felicity wasn't opposed to what Ray was put out there. Which makes me sad.

It is open to interpretation, but for me, I'm uncomfortable with the vibe. 

 

This. This is what made me sad. A Felicity open to Ray a week after Oliver's death was icky. I mean, even Laurel turned Ollie down after Tommy's death. 

[Genki]

I think the scene is a bit of a mistep because they should allow Ray and Felicity's relationship to grow without the hinderence of Oliver-is-dead hanging over her. We assume she wouldn't even think of moving in on Ray right now but the writers throw us a curve ball when Ray, who knows she's emotionally cut up, makes it clear (to me) that he's an option, and she doesn't blink it away or shut it down some other way. There's something called too soon, regardless of whether or not she was waiting for Oliver.

 

 

Unless that is his MO...get them while they are vulnerable. It worked (from his perspective) in 3.02 while he was trying to recruit her. (Not really serious, but...)

 

OnTopic: More Felicity perspective please, and stuff written for Felicity. I'm bummed that Diggle and Felicity didn't connect in 3.11.

[apinknightmare]

This. This is what made me sad. A Felicity open to Ray a week after Oliver's death was icky. I mean, even Laurel turned Ollie down after Tommy's death.

But Laurel and Tommy were in a relationship. Oliver and Felicity never were. Felicity was open to Ray before Oliver died, why is it icky now? Oliver is/was one of the people closest to her in her life and a man that she loved even though he was unwilling (for whatever reason) to be with her. Oliver's death changes none of those things. Smiling at Ray changes none of those things. Getting into a relationship with Ray changes none of those things. It was something she did even before Oliver died. That's why I can't figure it out.

ETA: not questioning you or your feelings, just examining my own. :)

Edited February 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Unless that is his MO...get them while they are vulnerable. It worked (from his perspective) in 3.02 while he was trying to recruit her. (Not really serious, but...)

 

It's pretty much why I think the scene made Ray look like a dick. She is very vulnerable. Lay off Ray, don't be that guy.

Then again, it seems Felicity and Ray only have each other. This might seem a legit option to Ray.

[statsgirl]

The problem is she responded. She smiled - not an awkward smile, not an absentminded smile, not a weirded out small acknowledging smile at this platonic friend saying he cares about her, but a soft, loving, happy smile. To me it read like a smile of realisation - this guy's cute and I'm glad he has feelings for me. My problem is, that I don't think, if Felicity had really been in love with Oliver, that she would have been in a headspace that allowed for that realisation. Plus, really, she's the one who made it romantic. He said he cared about her - that could have been platonic. Her smile of pleasure at his saying he cared for her? That was not platonic IMO and it was really jarring to me. 

 

Having said that, my head canon (till the show says otherwise) is that this is an actress screw up. While EBR is head and shoulders over the rest of the women in the current cast, she's no Kristen Bell or Allison Mack (ETA: or Allison Brie) so she just screwed up and made the smile more "love"ly than it was written.  That's my wank and i'm sticking to it.

I think they told her to play it ambiguous.  The EPs want to push this to be a O/E/R triangle so while they don't want her overtly encouraging Ray, they still want the Raylicity shippers (and there are quite a few on MG's tumblr and other boards) to be shipping.

 

In my head  canon, and possibly MG's, she's still so stunned by Oliver's death that she didn't take it as Ray caring for her romantically.  Remember, this is the woman who last year said that finally a man takes an interest in her and then he ends up in a coma.

[GirlvsTV]

I love Felicity Smoak.

She really is what brought me into watching Arrow and I've felt, for the most part, the show has done really well by her character. I've never really had a moment of disliking her until this season and both moments have been related to Ray.

The first was the weirdly flippant attitude I felt she had in 3.07, when QC became Palmer Technologies. I can't believe we didn't even get a small moment of her expressing that the change might be difficult for Oliver. I mean, if she brought it up with Oliver he probably would have brushed her off with an 'I'm fine,' but the fact that she didn't try at all felt very OOC to me. I guess I can fanwank maybe it happened off screen, but every time she or Ray twirled their fingers in the air I wanted to yell at the tv.

The second time was the much discussed Ray/Felicity scene in 3.11. I feel like the lighting, direction, framing and underlying score are all meant to tell me, as a viewer, that this is a moment with romantic undertones. On watching it the first time my reaction was pretty much, "WTF, Felicity?!" and then "Gross!"

And I HATE HATE HATE that the writers have made me react that way to one of my favorite female tv characters. The only reason to include that scene with those two making googly eyes at each other is so they can push a romantic relationship between them a few eps from now, even though the undertone in the scene makes no sense within the episode itself.

The sad thing is the writers have had half a season to build up Ray/Felicity but they've managed to completely squander it. So much so, that they have shoehorn scenes like that one into episodes where they make no sense just so they can catch up to where the plot needs them to be.

[doesntworkonwood]

But Laurel and Tommy were in a relationship. Oliver and Felicity never were. Felicity was open to Ray before Oliver died, why is it icky now? Oliver is/was one of the people closest to her in her life and a man that she loved even though he was unwilling (for whatever reason) to be with her. Oliver's death changes none of those things. Smiling at Ray changes none of those things. Getting into a relationship with Ray changes none of those things. It was something she did even before Oliver died. That's why I can't figure it out.

ETA: not questioning you or your feelings, just examining my own. :)

 

I think, for me personally, it's not the fact that she's moving on, it's the fact that she's moving on in a week (though I should point out that that hasn't happened yet).

 

For us, it's been months since Oliver died, but for her it's actually only been a week. They haven't even had a funeral for him, there's not been any formal goodbye from the team at all.

 

Last week we saw a very passionate, emotionally compromised Felicity, and we saw that at the beginning of this weeks episode too. She admitted that she saw Oliver as more than a friend last week, and she was very stunted, and very much still dealing with her feelings about that this week, especially at the beginning of the episode.

 

For her to go from that slightly harsh demeanor that she had in the beginning of the episode, to being open and warm and receptive to Ray (depending of course on how you percieved that exchange) in a matter of a few hours, doesn't make sense and seems to undercut her feelings for Oliver. It makes it seem as though she could get over her feelings for him quickly. This definitely shows that there seems to be a problem with the pacing of the show, but even so...

 

I think I'd have the same reaction if it was Digg that died and Felicity seemed to get over it quickly. It would be a bit weird to see her a week later in any scene not infected by her relationship and her feelings for Digg. 

[apinknightmare]

For her to go from that slightly harsh demeanor that she had in the beginning of the episode, to being open and warm and receptive to Ray (depending of course on how you percieved that exchange) in a matter of a few hours, doesn't make sense and seems to undercut her feelings for Oliver. It makes it seem as though she could get over her feelings for him quickly. 

 

 

I guess this is where my point of contention with my discomfort is. She's not replacing Oliver's role in her life romantically with Ray - Oliver wasn't in her life romantically. He wanted to be - he would've been if he hadn't been such a dumbass after their date. So what exactly is she getting over quickly? Whatever she feels for Oliver she's locked away in order to not get hurt by/dwell on/be held back by wanting something that Oliver told her she couldn't have, and she did that a while ago. If I didn't feel her kissing Ray betrayed her feelings for Oliver (and I didn't), then why should I feel like a smile does? Yeah, he died, but literally nothing changed in Oliver and Felicity's relationship between that kiss and that smile. 

 

Yeah, I would've felt a bit better about it if she'd turned him down, but why would she? She's alone, the guy she wanted and couldn't ever have is dead, and this one whom she obviously likes (unfortunately) says he cares about her, and she's hurting. It was probably nice to hear. 

 

I guess my issue is that I wouldn't feel like she was doing anything wrong or betraying her feelings or getting over anything if she was doing these things while Oliver was alive (because she did), so why should I feel that way now that he's dead? I should probably stop thinking about it before it drives me crazy.

Edited February 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

You have no idea of the discomfort you just caused me. *crying for days*

[AyChihuahua]

 

so why should I feel that way now that he's dead?

Because he's dead.  Moving on from an unsuccessful romantic relationship is pretty typical.  Moving on from one's loved one dying in a week just isn't typical human behavior.  In any of the various crime shows on tv, it would make Felicity a prime suspect in his death.

[doesntworkonwood]

I guess this is where my point of contention with my discomfort is. She's not replacing Oliver's role in her life romantically with Ray - Oliver wasn't in her life romantically. He wanted to be - he would've been if he hadn't been such a dumbass after their date. So what exactly is she getting over quickly? Whatever she feels for Oliver she's locked away in order to not get hurt by/dwell on/be held back by wanting something that Oliver told her she couldn't have, and she did that a while ago. If I didn't feel her kissing Ray betrayed her feelings for Oliver (and I didn't), then why should I feel like a smile does? Yeah, he died, but literally nothing changed in Oliver and Felicity's relationship between that kiss and that smile. 

 

Yeah, I would've felt a bit better about it if she'd turned him down, but why would she? She's alone, the guy she wanted and couldn't ever have is dead, and this one whom she obviously likes (unfortunately) says he cares about her, and she's hurting. It was probably nice to hear. 

 

But Felicity did see Oliver romantically, she said they they were more than friends, and she talked about the little dreams that she had about him, she definitely did indicate that she saw him as a romantic presence in her life. 

 

And like I said above, I'd feel the same if she seemed to move on so quickly after Diggle died. For me it's not just the fact that she's moving on romantically, more that she seems to be able to get over Oliver's death so quickly. Oliver was still her friend, and one that she'd gone through a lot with, and for her to get from that point of emotional instability, where she seemed to be functioning by just going through the motions, to the point where she was comfortable having deep moments with Ray in a matter of hours, just doesn't connect with me. 

 

I don't see it as a betrayal of feelings, but I do think that it undercuts feelings. A lot of that probably comes from the fact that we've never really heard Felicity's voice this season, and most of her scenes have been there to prop up Ray, so it's really difficult for us to see the true extent of her feelings, and when you don't see that, it's a lot easier to dismiss. 

[apinknightmare]

Because he's dead.  Moving on from an unsuccessful romantic relationship is pretty typical.  Moving on from one's loved one dying in a week just isn't typical human behavior.  In any of the various crime shows on tv, it would make Felicity a prime suspect in his death.

 

Right, but she didn't kiss him. She didn't ask him out, agree to go out with him, she didn't tell him she loved him or that she cared about him in return, she didn't do anything other than smile at him. She smiled at him after he a) stood in front of a machine gun to protect her and b) told her he'd do it again. He expressed a feeling that she didn't reciprocate. She didn't shoot it down, but she didn't confirm she felt the same way. She just smiled at the guy.

[looptab]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's a big deal. She should have shut ut down? It's not like he jumped her..how was she supposed to react? Was she supposed to run away in tears, or screaming "how dare you?!" or slap him or being indigned?

She replied with a kind smile to a kindness from her friend. I know the framing and the music and all suggest it's a romantic moment, but if you picture Diggle in Ray's place and she reacted the way she did, there would be no issue. Just my opinion:)

[Password]

Probably because Diggle has never been framed in a romantic light with Felicity. Seeing as they kind of went there with the kiss and then the aftermath with Ray being all he didn't regret the kiss, the framing was romantic because it was meant to be. It's where they're leading.

But still, I pretty much only throw shade at Ray. Sleazeball.

[looptab]

Probably because Diggle has never been framed in a romantic light with Felicity. Seeing as they kind of went there with the kiss and then the aftermath with Ray being all he didn't regret the kiss, the framing was romantic because it was meant to be. It's where they're leading.

But still, I pretty much only throw shade at Ray. Sleazeball.

Yeah,it's true. What I meant was, If you look just at her reaction, ignoring the music etc, it's pretty innocuous. It's what we know on how television works and ttheir previous and possibly future interactions that affects the perception of the scene, IMO.

[Password]

Hmm but it's often music that sets the tone to scenes. It's why it's used, it's like emotional manipulation. One can't really take it at face value alone because everything is included, including their "history".

I wish we had another EBR interview. Seeing as we're getting no "Felicity voice" I'm now relying on outside interviews to tell me what I'm seeing.

[calliope1975]

But still, I pretty much only throw shade at Ray. Sleazeball.

 

It also undercuts Ray. They want us to buy him as a hero and want to watch him - enough that they're discussing a spin off. Where's the love for his dead fiancee? He sure moved on quick. I've read the speculation that they are both transferring feelings which is possible, but I don't know if these writers are capable of being that subtle. I'm almost sure that they aren't. So, I'm going to need it spelled out for me if that's true. They were able to do it on The Flash when both Barry and Felicity discussed how they work on paper but not in real life. Why can't we get that on Arrow? 

[apinknightmare]

It also undercuts Ray. They want us to buy him as a hero and want to watch him - enough that they're discussing a spin off. Where's the love for his dead fiancee? He sure moved on quick. I've read the speculation that they are both transferring feelings which is possible, but I don't know if these writers are capable of being that subtle. I'm almost sure that they aren't. So, I'm going to need it spelled out for me if that's true. They were able to do it on The Flash when both Barry and Felicity discussed how they work on paper but not in real life. Why can't we get that on Arrow? 

 

Oh, if only I cared enough about Ray to worry about this undercutting him or how people perceive him like I do Felicity. That would be a nice problem to have. 

 

I think we need whoever wrote the Felicity/Barry and the Felicity/Oliver scenes over on The Flash to make a permanent relocation over to Arrow.