Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[ban1o]

 

 

And yet with Laurel we know practically every fucking thing about her whole life and and I still don't feel like I know who Laurel is.  IMO that's all on the actor and what kind of internal life they create for the character. 

This is because Laurel's characterization is very poor and I don't think the writers completely know where to go with her character. I do hope that they improve it this season.

Felicity's characterization is a lot better so we have a more consistent look on who she is and around how she would react and act in situations (thought there have been episodes where she acts out of character but this is probably due to bad writing). That being said, I do want to know more about her and why exactly she is the way she is :) 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[Chaser]

If you can spot the inconsistent moments in a character, then you got a bad writer. If you can't diferenciate, you got Laurel.

[ban1o]

ban1o, I think Moira is a good character because of what Susanna Thompson brought to the role. But we know even less about Moira than we do about Felicity (she was married to a very rich man; she put up with his infidelities but she didn't like it; she will do anything to protect her family; she sat on committees but didn't appear to have a job until after Robert died; she blames herself for Robert's death because she is the one who convinced him to go against Malcolm;  she lies).  Thompson took those few bits of information and made Moira complex and fascinating.

 

 

I just saw this comment! I don't want to go into too much detail because this isn't Moira's thread and I don't want to go around in circle but I feel  with Moira's actions due to her past we got more of her motivations for doing what she does. Also she has flaws and strength about her character. She a lot about her family more than anything else, but on the other hand, she is willing to do horrible things in order to protect them. She`s conflicted between doing what is right and wrong. She is very self-serving. I do agree that ST performance made the character even more interesting, but I think the writing made her complex as well. I think she is easily the best actress on the show and I'm sad to see her go (RIP Moira lol) 

 

I do understand some of the things you said about Felicity and I do think her characterization is good, I just wish we knew more about her when before she was on Team Arrow or when she's not around Team Arrow. I do want to emphasize that I do like Felicity and I like her character I just WANT to see her have more dimensions and more of a background, because I do like her :) Also I would like to see her make more mistakes. I think the story-line with her not telling Roy he killed the cop could be a little bit interesting depending how the writers treat it. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

 

Why exactly didn't she notify the police about all the Sketchy things Ollie were giving her?  (SHe said it was because she trusted him, but why, I would have liked to recieve more info about this, is she just a trusting person in general, did something in her past make her trust someone like Oliver)

What could she have said? Oliver Queen brought me a laptop with bullet holes and the plans for a building on?  Oliver Queen brought me a sports drink in syringes and asked me to analyze where the water came from?  Oliver Queen wanted to get in touch with the former foreman of his father's company who was later found dead?  He asked me to decrypt a program that had military grade encryption and was found to be about armored cars?

 

I think in the first instance, Quentin would have jumped at it but anyone else at the police station would have told her to run along home, little girl.  By the time it came to Trust But Verify,  she had come to trust Oliver maybe more than the police.  

 

But generally she trusts someone until she finds out that the other person hurt someone she cares about or did something wrong (e.g. Helena tying her up, Moira being shady) so it seems to be a personality characteristic..

 

 

know they mentioned a few passing comments about her family, like her mother was a cocktail waitress and her dad was absent but I wonder how they affected Felicity, because she doesn't really seem to have any darkness to her.  WHy exactly did she continue stay on team arrow. I know at first she joined because of Walter, but what influenced her to continue assisting a murderer

By the time Walter was found, she had realized that Oliver was doing good things (going after the Dodger, saving Roy) and she wanted to stay on and help.  Also, she had convinced Oliver to stop killing people first.  She told Oliver that before he found her, she didn't think that she could be more than a boring IT girl so working with Oliver and Diggle gave her a purpose and a substitute family since she's estranged from her own.

 

I think her darkness manifests two ways:  her fear of abandonment; and the many things she's afraid of, from heights to being left out, to not thinking she's worthwhile as a person or a lover beyond her tech skills.  You don't see the darkness affect her because when it's there, she bites down on the bullet and soldiers through.

 

At least that's what I got from the show.

 

eta:

ban1o, thanks for listening to my rant and thinking about it.

 

She a lot about her family more than anything else, but on the other hand, she is willing to do horrible things in order to protect them. She`s conflicted between doing what is right and wrong.

I agree, I think her feelings about her family motivates her and she is conflicted. But we don't know why she is so motivated about her family. Did she lose her family at an early age and is determined to protect this one?  Did she marry the rich guy and wants to keep the good life,, as it looks like Laurel wanted to, so she turns a blind eye to Robert's cheating and Oliver's screw-ups?  Where did her sense of morality come from, that she wanted to persuade Robert to stop Malcolm?

 

We know the emotions, but like Felicity, we don't know the story that brought about those feelings.  ban1o, I think we're going to have to disagreed about Moira too.

Edited September 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

 

By the time Walter was found, she had realized that Oliver was doing good things (going after the Dodger, saving Roy) and she wanted to stay on and help.  Also, she had convinced Oliver to stop killing people first.  She told Oliver that before he found her, she didn't think that she could be more than a boring IT girl so working with Oliver and Diggle gave her a purpose and a substitute family since she's estranged from her own.

 

I think her darkness manifests two ways:  her fear of abandonment; and the many things she's afraid of, from heights to being left out, to not thinking she's worthwhile as a person or a lover beyond her tech skills.  You don't see the darkness affect her because when it's there, she bites down on the bullet and soldiers through.

 

At least that's what I got from the show.

I actually like these explanations you gave :P I think you made me revise my view on her slightly. I guess she doesn't have many friends so she clings onto Diggle and Oliver, and revers to the Arrow-cave as her "home" which is why we really don't see her life outside f Team Arrow. I do find it slightly unbelievable that she doesn't have any friends considering she's funny, nice, caring and really pretty but that's typical for these type of shows I guess lol. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[Chaser]

How do you guys think it will go down with Roy? I think she made the right call at the time but she probably didn't tell him later. I want them to be friends and I want him to feel betrayed that she never told him. I think it could be a really good scene.

[wonderwall]

How do you guys think it will go down with Roy? I think she made the right call at the time but she probably didn't tell him later. I want them to be friends and I want him to feel betrayed that she never told him. I think it could be a really good scene.

I hope it actually does go down with Roy. I want Felicity to understand and accept the consequences of her actions regardless of her reasons.

 

The way it would probably go down is Roy will probably go ballistic on Felicity and will yell at her, she will try to calmly explain why she did what she did and Roy will continue to yell at her and probably insult her (because he's human and when people are angry they say stupid things), and Oliver/Digg in the background will probably say "Roy that's enough!" trying to diffuse the situation. Roy will walk out of the foundry because of course they both would be on Felicity's side. Roy will probably then end the episode will come to an understanding with Felicity. 

[ban1o]

How do you guys think it will go down with Roy? I think she made the right call at the time but she probably didn't tell him later. I want them to be friends and I want him to feel betrayed that she never told him. I think it could be a really good scene.

yeah I was just saying above that I hope the writers play this out well because I do think Roy and Felicity will be friends so if he feels betrayal for her lie that would be  interesting to see how that plays out. 

 

Technically though I guess, the WHOLE team is lying to him lol. She was just the first one to do it so he'll probably just be mad at everyone haha. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

Felicity might be the one Roy feels closest to since Diggle is so much older and Oliver is the boss and Thea's big brother.  That would be an extra conflict for Roy.

[Chaser]

True. The whole team is in on it, but he did ask the question directly to Felicity and since she told him he was out the whole time he may not have brought it up to anyone else. 

 

I see Felicity and Roy having a sibling relationship. Not an affectionate one I see with Diggle but a 'I'm going to mess with your computers to bug you" relationship. I could see Roy trying to talk to Felicity about Thea since he probably wouldn't want to talk to Oliver. And she is going to have her own romantic problems.

Edited September 19, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Chaser]

New Head Canon: She hates mysteries, thats why she didn't turn him in: She wanted to solve him lol

[ban1o]

New Head Canon: She hates mysteries, thats why she didn't turn him in: She wanted to solve him lol

lol  :P That was one my gripes in the earlier part of season 1.. Like all this obviously sketchy incriminating stuff and she didn't turn him in at all...Like he could have been dangerous or some sort of criminal. Obviously it was for convenience sake and it was supposed to be funny with him giving her all this weird stuff all the time, but I didn't really buy it. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[catrox14]

Well considering Felicity is a hacker herself, it's possible she didn't want too much attention herself at that time. Or she thought...hmmm doesn't that make me a hypocrite? I have no issues with her not turning him in.

[wingster55]

Re: Roy and Felicity...I'd like to see her be the one to apologize first instead of the scenario above..

 

As for Felicity being a character..she has a few...traits but I feel she's mostly a plot device. Need to advance the plot? Felicity! 

Need some awkward babbling/comic relief? Felicity! 

 

She hasn't been presented as having many negative qualities 

[ban1o]

Re: Roy and Felicity...I'd like to see her be the one to apologize first instead of the scenario above..

 

As for Felicity being a character..she has a few...traits but I feel she's mostly a plot device. Need to advance the plot? Felicity! 

Need some awkward babbling/comic relief? Felicity! 

 

She hasn't been presented as having many negative qualities 

Yeah I agree that sometimes her character is used as a plot device. Obviously she's essential to the team but some of the things her tech genius can make her do is far fetched (but hey, it's a comic-book show). which is why I'm looking forward to more development to her character and I actually want her character to make some mistakes and have to regret things, which she really hasn't done. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ban1o

[Chaser]

I don't want her to apologize first because I want there to be a blowout. If she goes to him and says "Hey, with everything that was going down with Slade and Argus, I lied to you. This happened…….and I'm so sorry for lying to you but I was afraid to tell you…..the city needed you….its not your fault…." How much conflict would you get from that? Technically I believe she was right, it wasn't the time. But if he finds out from a third party and his friend never told him the truth? That is where you get the sense of betrayal and the consequences that should be addressed. 

[Ceylon5]

From Wikipedia (on characterisation):

 

There are two ways an author can convey information about a character:

Direct or explicit characterization:
The author literally tells the audience what a character is like. This may be done via the narrator, another character or by the character him- or herself.
Indirect or implicit characterization:
The audience must infer for themselves what the character is like through the character’s thoughts, actions, speech (choice of words, way of talking), looks and interaction with other characters, including other characters’ reactions to that particular person.

 

Just because we're not directly told what to think about someone, it doesn't mean that we're not being given any characterisation.  In real life, we get to know people through our daily interactions with them.  I don't know about anyone else, but I don't spend much time talking with people I know about our parents and childhoods.  One tends to focus on the now, and if your parents live far away and you rarely see them, then they most likely won't come up in conversations with people unconnected to your family or past.  Sure, when you get to know people extremely well, there will usually come a time when you run out of current topics and will start to talk about family and anecdotes from your past and so on, but you can actually be very good friends with someone and still know next to nothing about their family or their childhoods.  Especially with people who are not confiders/big talkers by nature (and this isn't necessarily a character flaw!).

 

There are two types of knowing:  knowing about (e.g. Felicity knowing Oliver's grades from high school because she looked it up on-line - okay, now I'm wondering why she was poking around looking up Oliver's school records...) and knowing from spending time with someone. It's like the difference between seeing an orchestral score written in a book and hearing an orchestra actually playing it - the two experiences are worlds apart.  You could have a full dossier telling you every detail about a person you've never met, but until you actually interact with them, you would never answer the question "Do you know each other?" with "yes".  Conversely, you can know nothing at all about someone, not even their name, but if someone asked that same question about, say, someone you once chatted to in the check-out line at the grocery store, as soon as you recognise them, you're liable to answer "yes, we met at the grocery store".   So our language confirms a truth about human relationships - how well you really know someone is directly correlated to how much time you spend interacting with them.

 

I think Felicity works as a character because instead of relying on telling us things about her, they've instead allowed us to get to know her for ourselves, alongside Oliver and Diggle.  Would I love to know more personal details about her? Absolutely, because I like her and find her interesting.  Would I feel I knew her better if I could see her home and knew what she did in her free time? Of course, though I'm not sure she has any free time!  Do I feel that she's a fully realised person just as we know her now?  Definitely.  Between some relatively consistent writing and an excellent, whole-hearted job from the actress, I find Felicity a very real, relatable person.  In Emily's hands, she isn't just a plot device to provide computer-related information or light relief, but has been thoroughly three-dimensional and captivating from her first scene.

 

(On a side note: With regards to the bizarre idea that Oliver doesn't know Felicity well enough to be in love with her, all I can say is: good grief!  Even if you're not a fan of the concept of love at first sight, this is setting the bar ridiculously high!  If working closely with someone for two years (and spending basically every waking hour with them for the better part of a year), being repeatedly in life-and-death situations with them and saving each other's lives, keeping each other's secrets, protecting each other, etc. isn't enough for people to get to know each other well enough to fall in love, then I'm at a loss as to what would qualify?!)

Edited September 19, 2014 by Ceylon5

[Morrigan2575]

Great post.

[tv echo]

Thanks, wonderwall, Ceylon5 and others, for your great analyses.  There is a difference between knowing a character's character and knowing a character's background.  This discussion made me think of another show I'm watching called Legends.  I'm getting to know the lead character on that show as an increasingly complex man through his behavior, his actions and his emotions (beautifully acted by Sean Bean), but I don't really know the character's background because it could all be a fake background (a "legend").  I don't know a lot about Felicity's background, but I've learned a lot about her character over two seasons through her words, actions and emotions, and how others interact with her.

Edited September 19, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

What I love about Felicity is the air of mystery surrounding her. I don't know if it was deliberately played that way by the writers or they just didn't spend any time on her, but the questions I have about her don't make me feel gosh I don't know this woman, it makes me think as Quentin would say "Who the hell is Felicity Smoak?" At this point she's a blank canvas in terms of her past and how her past led her to be the woman she is today.

However what I do find irritating is that her life revolves around team Arrow and Oliver. When that is fixed this season and I see her life and past outside Oliver then I'll be far more comfortable saying Felicity Smoak is fully fleshed out.

I'm not confident enough to say the writers deliberately made it so that she has no life outside of team Arrow, but I imagine that we'll learn more about why she is so attached to her pseudo family. Already we know she has abandonment issues so she'd feel/be very loyal and attached to people whom come into her life and stay for an amount of time. Probably more so when they accept her quirks, all of which team Arrow do. (And probably what her mum didn't do).

Felicity's story this season only makes me excited. Finally some of my many questions will be answered about her.

[fantique]

@Ceylon5

Because liking it is not enough...

[dtissagirl]

I'm thrilled we're gonna be seeing Felicity flashbacks and meeting her mother in present time, but I'm okay with the fact that she doesn't seem to have a life outside of Team Arrow. We don't even know for sure if that's how it really is -- and I get it that it's because of super lazy writing -- but I would buy it if Felicity legit was lonely and just going through the motions of life until she met Oliver and Dig. I keep seeing people saying that Felicity's lack of a personal life and lack of a background are character faults, but I feel that through her acting choices, EBR made the apparent loneliness and mystery into character traits.

 

And it is a sad view if I think about it, especially since Felicity always seems so full of life and joy -- and HOW could anyone so cheerful be lonely? -- but I can accept if she never felt like she fit anywhere before [or maybe she did during MIT, but lost it after graduation], and the foundry is the first place she felt like she could be herself to the fullest.

 

I know that all of this perception I have of her is mostly due to the acting choices. Not only EBR's, but also the way Amell and Ramsey play Oliver and Diggle in relation to Felicity, and to a lesser note, also how Sara and Quentin react to Felicity.  How the other characters react to her IMO is just as important in rounding her development as EBR's acting choices and the writing, probably way more than whatever factual tidbits about her past that the writing can give us. Do I want those tidbits? Hell yes. But I don't really need them.

[Morrigan2575]

And it is a sad view if I think about it, especially since Felicity always seems so full of life and joy -- and HOW could anyone so cheerful be lonely? -- but I can accept if she never felt like she fit anywhere before [or maybe she did during MIT, but lost it after graduation], and the foundry is the first place she felt like she could be herself to the fullest.

 

The deleted Felicity/Sara scene from 219 supports this theory.  The Foundry (and I assume by extension Team Arrow) is the first place she's felt at home.  I

[wingster55]

I never thought of Felicity as an overly joyful/optimistic person. She's not dour or depressing albeit. 

[catrox14]

I think Felicity is a hopeful person.  Being hopeful doesn't make you less emotional, or prone to sadness or that you don't have challenges or make mistakes. But I think Felicity approaches things with a hopeful outlook.  She's tenacious. I mean you'd have to be to be a successful hacker. 

 

 

ETA: Because I totally combined two different posts! Sorry

Edited September 19, 2014 by catrox14

[foreverevolving]

so the season 2 soundtrack came out, and it seems as if the melody from the mansion scene is titled "Purest Heart" and we all now which character that title refers to.

should we consider adding that to the thread title?

Edited September 20, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Orion]

Purest Heart plays during the Thea and Oliver scene in the Mansion when Thea is leaving. "You have the purest heart and I can't ever have you loose that, okay, promise me?" From episode 2X21 City of Blood

Edited September 20, 2014 by Orion

[wingster55]

So I guess we don't all know ;)

[foreverevolving]

so what's the theme heard at the "I love you" scene?

because they sound almost identical, with the ILY one sounding a bit more "heavier" but the notes sounds the same.

[looptab]

They are very similar pieces, but however I don't think the one heard during the mansion scene has been included in the OST, at least not in the digital version. The composer said the physical one would have two bonus tracks, so maybe it's there (one of them is the theme of the Dollmaker).

[wonderwall]

Purest Heart isn't what was played during the 'I love you' scene. It's similar in the sense that the main instrument used is the piano, but the one in the mansion is a lot more simple. Also, the soundtrack in the mansion can also be heard in the beach scene when Oliver/Felicity talk about the whole ruse. 

 

I actually really liked that track and hope it gets released at one point. But my favorite one was the essence of heroism (aka the one where Felicity tells Oliver that he's not done fighting :'))

[Orion]

They do sound very similar. Both the "I love you" and the "Purest Heart" are layered over the "Oliver Queen Suite"  from season one, the former with a simply two note piano motif and the former with a 4 note piano motif and additional violin added. The "I love you" music recurs a few times in Season 2 during "because of the life I lead", "there was no choice to make," and the island scene.

 

"Essence of Heroism" has the music from the Lair 2.0 scene, "Felicity someone once told me the essence of heroism is to die so others can live" and the clock tower scene "You are not alone and I believe in you." You can hear the two note Olicity motif when the camera does a close up of Oliver tightening his hand on Felicity during the hug. It is the only Felicity scene music in the soundtrack.

 

The composer said on twitter that the mansion scene music was to short and would be expanded this year so I guess that is why it wasn't included. I'm disappointed with that. Actually a lot of the music I liked wasn't included.

[Betweenthisandthat]

I like Felicity  and I like the lightness and atmosphere she brings to the show but I don't think she's a very developed character lol.

 

I agree.  I enjoy Felicity.  She's fresh and she brings a great humor and energy to her scenes. I like that she doesn't seem like a tortured soul or to be suffering in silence.  I love her fashion sense as well.  I don't necessarily find her layered as a character though. I still see her as the cute sidekick with a lot of airtime, and what I know of her feels superficial.  There are a few moments, like her scene with Diggle in his car when she said something about being able to take care of herself or something like that, when she wasn't the cute girl friday but a woman who knew her own mind.  I'd like to see more of that.

 

I also don't think she's been shown to have many or any weaknesses or flaws and I fear that because she's such a favorite that she'll become a bit of a Mary Sue.  Now, I hate that term, but for the most part it does seem like everyone loves her.  Oliver has gotten angry at her, but in the end it was his fault, not hers.  Everyone on this show has screwed up royally except her, at least to my knowledge.  I don't need her to make big mistakes or to be dramatic or tormented like everyone else, but I do think a lot of the depth she seems to have is infered but not necessarily shown.  In general, I don't need the character to change, but if she's going to be Oliver's great love interest for the season, I need to know what he sees in her romantically.  I often don't know what is drawing Oliver to any woman, but I don't know why Felicity went from being a friend to a potential lover.  I know I'm in the minority in this, but fleshing out her character in the here and now not just in flashbacks would help.

[pootlus]

Everyone on this show has screwed up royally except her, at least to my knowledge. 

 

I think not telling Roy he murdered someone while he was in mirakuru-rage

and continuing to not tell him about it counts as a pretty major fuck-up that will come to bite her in S3

.

[wonderwall]

I also don't think she's been shown to have many or any weaknesses or flaws and I fear that because she's such a favorite that she'll become a bit of a Mary Sue.  Now, I hate that term, but for the most part it does seem like everyone loves her.  Oliver has gotten angry at her, but in the end it was his fault, not hers.  Everyone on this show has screwed up royally except her, at least to my knowledge.  I don't need her to make big mistakes or to be dramatic or tormented like everyone else, but I do think a lot of the depth she seems to have is infered but not necessarily shown.  

Now I already made a long post concerning this, so I'm not going to bother writing about how Felicity isn't a layered character, because she is. So I'll let someone else tackle that. As for the mistakes Felicity has made:

• Lying to Roy
• Going to get the Vertigo cure or whatever alone in State Vs. Queen (where she got kidnapped)
• Going to the bank to catch the Clock King

 

Felicity also has her flaws: 

• Insecure
• Jealous 
• Abandonment issues
• Low self esteem (Why else would she feel easily replaced in Time of Death?)
• She lets her emotions cloud her judgment sometimes
• Her stance on killing flip flops considering the circumstance
• She lets work consume her (which is a flaw because her private life suffers)

 

While I would like to see Felicity fail at her duty once or twice in season 3, I don't need to see her royally screw up in order to see her as a layered/non mary-sue character. 

Edited September 21, 2014 by wonderwall

[DrSpaceman10]

I'd also like to see Felicity make some mistakes, so I hope they give the lying to Roy storyline/arc to Felicity instead of someone else 

because Colton Haynes said in an interview at Comic-Con that Laurel finds out secrets about the team or something, so I hope they don't give that storyline to Laurel instead

[statsgirl]

If it's going to be a meaty storyline, I can see them giving it to Laurel as a way to jump-start her onto the Team.  Conflict!  Redemption!

 

Hopefully there will be some on-going Felicity-oriented storylines next season, like Diggle's baby.  But between Malcolm and Thea, and Diggle, and Laurel 

as Oliver's partner and prosecuting criminals and Count Vertigo and Ra's

and the whole new set of flashbacks, there doesn't feel like there will be much room for Felicity, as opposed to Felicity/Oliver or with the team or

introducing Ray Palmer

[Guest]

I know Roy needs to be told the truth about what he did during his mirakuru-induced rage but I actually thought it wasn't the appropriate time for him to find out when he asked. So I think Felicity did the right thing in that moment. If, however, he's continued to ask over the months and she (they) still hasn't told him, that's the mistake. But when they were trying to save the city? Not the right time at all. I don't think Felicity should be placed at blame for that.

[DrSpaceman10]

I agree, in the moment it probably wasn't the right time to tell Roy that he had killed someone. I'm assuming in the event that they (Oliver, Diggle, Felicity) still haven't told him when the season starts 

which would seem to be the case given the interviews at Comic-Con

[wonderwall]

I know Roy needs to be told the truth about what he did during his mirakuru-induced rage but I actually thought it wasn't the appropriate time for him to find out when he asked. So I think Felicity did the right thing in that moment. If, however, he's continued to ask over the months and she (they) still hasn't told him, that's the mistake. But when they were trying to save the city? Not the right time at all. I don't think Felicity should be placed at blame for that.

If we are going to visit Felicity lying to Roy in the episodes to come, then it's clear that she didn't even bother to/ warred over telling him over the past 5-8 months after Slade's attack. It wasn't wrong to keep it from him when Starling was essentially falling, but it's wrong that she kept it from him in the months after. And I sure as hell know if Felicity didn't tell him in the last 5-8 months, she's not going to be bringing it up unless some outside force makes her.

 

But on the other hand, it's entirely possible that Laurel will be the one who will bring it up because she is working in the DAs office and Roy did kill a cop... Also, I wouldn't put it past Laurel to research the team because she doesn't trust them or doesn't understand why Oliver would bring them on the team and not her. 

Edited September 21, 2014 by wonderwall

[Guest]

I agree. I haven't seen/heard any spoilers about this so if they do revisit it and Felicity still hasn't told him, then absolutely there should be consequences for her. But at the same time, they all knew what Roy did so I don't think it should be on her completely. But I do understand why people will think that, given that it was Felicity who Roy asked first. 

[apinknightmare]

Not that I disagree with Felicity being at fault, but she's not the only one responsible for keeping that secret from him. If Roy doesn't know, that one's on Oliver, Digg and Sara, too. Not just Felicity. (basically what Angel12d wrote)

Edited September 21, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I agree. I haven't seen/heard any spoilers about this so if they do revisit it and Felicity still hasn't told him, then absolutely there should be consequences for her. But at the same time, they all knew what Roy did so I don't think it should be on her completely. But I do understand why people will think that, given that it was Felicity who Roy asked first. 

I think that Roy will be upset with the entire team, but Felicity will bear the brunt of his anger because she's the one who outright lied to him about what he did under the Mirakuru. It's actually kind of perfect for Laurel because in this sense Felicity will be made into the villain and Laurel will be made into the saint because she's the one who was being honest. While it's a cheap shot, I know some people (mostly casual viewers) will fall for it. 

[Guest]

I think that Roy will be upset with the entire team, but Felicity will bear the brunt of his anger because she's the one who outright lied to him about what he did under the Mirakuru. It's actually kind of perfect for Laurel because in this sense Felicity will be made into the villain and Laurel will be made into the saint because she's the one who was being honest. While it's a cheap shot, I know some people (mostly casual viewers) will fall for it. 

 

Ugh. That's exactly what they're going to do, isn't it? I can see that happening. I mean, as I said, I can totally understand Roy being upset with Felicity because he outright asked her but if he still doesn't know the truth when s3 comes round, then they all lied to him so they should all be blamed.

 

Do we know for sure that Laurel will be involved or is this speculation? I'm a little fuzzy on spoilers tbh so I'm not sure.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

I think that Roy will be upset with the entire team, but Felicity will bear the brunt of his anger because she's the one who outright lied to him about what he did under the Mirakuru. It's actually kind of perfect for Laurel because in this sense Felicity will be made into the villain and Laurel will be made into the saint because she's the one who was being honest. While it's a cheap shot, I know some people (mostly casual viewers) will fall for it. 

 

I don't know, I think it would depend on how Laurel told him. It's not like they're keeping a secret like...I don't know, like Felicity finding out who Thea's father is and not telling Oliver. Roy killed a guy when he was out of his mind - what good is there in him knowing that he did it? Felicity (and the team) didn't keep it from him to be hurtful, they kept it from him to be kind.

Edited September 21, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

It was Felicity who told him in a time of crisis that he had been asleep the whole time so that was on her. And I think she would be the one on the team closest to Roy, also being younger than the other two and with less leadership role.  

 

But Diggle is the soldier, the one who knows best how Roy is feeling and reacting. And Oliver is the leader of the Team so that part of the responsibility is on him.  Both Diggle and Oliver should have broached it with Roy during the hiatus, especially because it's on tape and there's no way to hide what he did in the long term.

 

So why do I think Laurel is going to be the one who tells Roy what happened?  Because they have to squeeze Laurel in every way they can.  (And if she does, way to be a team player, Laurel.) 

[TanyaKay]

Honestly, if they are going to tackle Felicity lying to Roy about him killing cops while all mirakuru-ed, it should only be about these two characters and nothing else. If they tried to shoehorn the worst lawyer in American into this, I am gonna cut a bitch.

[Ceylon5]

I agree.  I enjoy Felicity.  She's fresh and she brings a great humor and energy to her scenes. I like that she doesn't seem like a tortured soul or to be suffering in silence.  I love her fashion sense as well.  I don't necessarily find her layered as a character though. I still see her as the cute sidekick with a lot of airtime, and what I know of her feels superficial.  There are a few moments, like her scene with Diggle in his car when she said something about being able to take care of herself or something like that, when she wasn't the cute girl friday but a woman who knew her own mind.  I'd like to see more of that.

 

It's interesting that you see her as a "cute girl Friday" because I've never seen her that way, any more than I see Diggle as the "black driver".  I believe both terms were used tongue-in-cheek on the show because they are the exact opposite of what these two are.  They were their cover stories for a world that doesn't know who the Arrow is, but the truth, as the audience knows, is quite different.

 

One of the things I've always like best about Felicity is how independent minded she is. She's stood up to Oliver every time she's disagreed with him, she's yelled at him and called him on his BS right from the get-go.  When she didn't like his modus operandi when she first started working with him, she left, and Oliver actually had to change the way he worked in order to get her to come back.  She is very clear in her opinions and backs them up with her actions.  When Oliver bailed at the end of season 1, she didn't give up on him, but fixed up and refurnished the lair, tracked Oliver down and then went half-way round the world and jumped out of a plane to get him back.  She's always shown determination, courage in the face of fear, and integrity.  I think she's one of the strongest characters on TV and that's why I like her, along with her sense of humour and her ability to not take herself too seriously (how else would she survive all the embarrassing things she says?).

 

I also don't think she's been shown to have many or any weaknesses or flaws and I fear that because she's such a favorite that she'll become a bit of a Mary Sue.  Now, I hate that term, but for the most part it does seem like everyone loves her.  Oliver has gotten angry at her, but in the end it was his fault, not hers.  Everyone on this show has screwed up royally except her, at least to my knowledge.  I don't need her to make big mistakes or to be dramatic or tormented like everyone else, but I do think a lot of the depth she seems to have is infered but not necessarily shown.  In general, I don't need the character to change, but if she's going to be Oliver's great love interest for the season, I need to know what he sees in her romantically.  I often don't know what is drawing Oliver to any woman, but I don't know why Felicity went from being a friend to a potential lover.  I know I'm in the minority in this, but fleshing out her character in the here and now not just in flashbacks would help.

 

I personally don't equate royally screwing up with character depth.  When I think of faults/weaknesses in most people I know, I don't think in terms of massive screw-ups, but rather in terms of everyday things like their habit of telling really long, boring stories or eating/drinking too much or being incapable of keeping track of their finances or whatever.  Faults tend to lie mostly in small acts of selfishness or self-indulgence, thoughtlessness or poor impulse control, which may result in a series of life-long screw-ups or a couple of massive screw-ups, or may just be the gently irritating facets that everyone has and which might annoy us from time to time, but aren't of earth-shattering importance in the grander scheme of things. 

 

Felicity's one most obvious fault is her tendency to say incredibly embarrassing things. It might often amuse other people (or annoy or embarrass them, depending on the person or situation), but must be horrible for her.  Just because her weakness actually makes some people like her more, it doesn't mean it isn't a weakness (would you want to have that particular quirk?).  She also breaks the law all the time, which you may or may not consider a fault, but it definitely adds shades of grey.  Sure, she has her own set of standards of right and wrong, but she still enjoys breaking into the FBI, blowing up buildings, and whatnot.  The fact that we're used to people on TV doing stuff like that, and the fact that we've accepted Oliver running about killing people, might mean we've set a really low bar for ourselves here, but for me, her being so ready and willing to do these things adds plenty of layers of complexity and interest to her.  In my opinion, the things she does for Team Arrow are not things 'normal' people do, so her choices here make her unusual and intriguing.

 

She has, of course, failed from time to time.  Anyone who knows that the Arrow has a gifted IT person on his team has taken precautions which have defeated Felicity (e.g. when Slade cloned his signal so she couldn't track him, or when the Clock King blew up her computers).  She's also behaved rashly from time to time and gotten herself into trouble as a result.  She has enough vulnerability and insecurity to seem pretty normal in a world of superheroes.  

 

It's a tricky balance - we want her to be normal enough (e.g. get scared when someone has a sword to her throat) to be a real person, but we also want her to be strong.  For me, Felicity works as a character because they've actually succeeded in getting this balance right with her.  Her being insanely brilliant on computers is on a par with Oliver being able to shoot dozens of tennis balls with his arrows - being over-the-top good at things is kind of a TV normal, but I don't think that defines either of them as people.  The way she shouts or jokes or panics; the choices she makes; the friendships she's made and way she reacts to situations - those are the things that show us who she is.  That is how we know her as a person.  We've seen her angry, sad, scared, determined, happy, bored, stressed, and so on.  All these have told us things about who she is.  For me, that's the only true way to get to know someone, and so far, if we've paid attention, we've been able to learn a lot.  So I'm happy with her just as she is, and I look forward to getting to know her even better in the future.  But you can't rush getting to know someone.  It just takes time.

[Password]

The way I agree with this ^^^^ is incredible.

[TanyaKay]

It's interesting that you see her as a "cute girl Friday" because I've never seen her that way, any more than I see Diggle as the "black driver".  I believe both terms were used tongue-in-cheek on the show because they are the exact opposite of what these two are.  They were their cover stories for a world that doesn't know who the Arrow is, but the truth, as the audience knows, is quite different.

 

One of the things I've always like best about Felicity is how independent minded she is. She's stood up to Oliver every time she's disagreed with him, she's yelled at him and called him on his BS right from the get-go.  When she didn't like his modus operandi when she first started working with him, she left, and Oliver actually had to change the way he worked in order to get her to come back.  She is very clear in her opinions and backs them up with her actions.  When Oliver bailed at the end of season 1, she didn't give up on him, but fixed up and refurnished the lair, tracked Oliver down and then went half-way round the world and jumped out of a plane to get him back.  She's always shown determination, courage in the face of fear, and integrity.  I think she's one of the strongest characters on TV and that's why I like her, along with her sense of humour and her ability to not take herself too seriously (how else would she survive all the embarrassing things she says?).

 

 

I personally don't equate royally screwing up with character depth.  When I think of faults/weaknesses in most people I know, I don't think in terms of massive screw-ups, but rather in terms of everyday things like their habit of telling really long, boring stories or eating/drinking too much or being incapable of keeping track of their finances or whatever.  Faults tend to lie mostly in small acts of selfishness or self-indulgence, thoughtlessness or poor impulse control, which may result in a series of life-long screw-ups or a couple of massive screw-ups, or may just be the gently irritating facets that everyone has and which might annoy us from time to time, but aren't of earth-shattering importance in the grander scheme of things. 

 

Felicity's one most obvious fault is her tendency to say incredibly embarrassing things. It might often amuse other people (or annoy or embarrass them, depending on the person or situation), but must be horrible for her.  Just because her weakness actually makes some people like her more, it doesn't mean it isn't a weakness (would you want to have that particular quirk?).  She also breaks the law all the time, which you may or may not consider a fault, but it definitely adds shades of grey.  Sure, she has her own set of standards of right and wrong, but she still enjoys breaking into the FBI, blowing up buildings, and whatnot.  The fact that we're used to people on TV doing stuff like that, and the fact that we've accepted Oliver running about killing people, might mean we've set a really low bar for ourselves here, but for me, her being so ready and willing to do these things adds plenty of layers of complexity and interest to her.  In my opinion, the things she does for Team Arrow are not things 'normal' people do, so her choices here make her unusual and intriguing.

 

She has, of course, failed from time to time.  Anyone who knows that the Arrow has a gifted IT person on his team has taken precautions which have defeated Felicity (e.g. when Slade cloned his signal so she couldn't track him, or when the Clock King blew up her computers).  She's also behaved rashly from time to time and gotten herself into trouble as a result.  She has enough vulnerability and insecurity to seem pretty normal in a world of superheroes.  

 

It's a tricky balance - we want her to be normal enough (e.g. get scared when someone has a sword to her throat) to be a real person, but we also want her to be strong.  For me, Felicity works as a character because they've actually succeeded in getting this balance right with her.  Her being insanely brilliant on computers is on a par with Oliver being able to shoot dozens of tennis balls with his arrows - being over-the-top good at things is kind of a TV normal, but I don't think that defines either of them as people.  The way she shouts or jokes or panics; the choices she makes; the friendships she's made and way she reacts to situations - those are the things that show us who she is.  That is how we know her as a person.  We've seen her angry, sad, scared, determined, happy, bored, stressed, and so on.  All these have told us things about who she is.  For me, that's the only true way to get to know someone, and so far, if we've paid attention, we've been able to learn a lot.  So I'm happy with her just as she is, and I look forward to getting to know her even better in the future.  But you can't rush getting to know someone.  It just takes time.

 

I agree with every word you have written. Felicity is fifty kinds of wonderful without being a wonder woman.