Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[wonderwall]

This discussion is surreal to me. I didn't even notice Felicity being all touchy-feely until I read people complaining about it here. But then, I live in the most touchy-feely place on the entire planet, so that might color my impressions. Cultural differences, YAY!

 

LOL yeah I guess it depends on how you grew up. I grew up in SE Asia and my parents aren't the touchy type, actually none of my family is touchy at all. In fact I'm probably the most touchy one and I'm not touchy at all. I generally get uncomfortable when people kiss in front of me or make out... I generally have to look away when they do that because I feel like I need to give them privacy or something :p 

 

Like I said before, I'm good with hand holding, kisses on cheeks, hugging (but if it veers into a sort of sensual hug, I look away), everything Oliver/Felicity did the past 3 seasons was fine for me (except maybe Felicity putting her chin on Oliver's shoulder while she was dating Ray. I loved that moment between them, but I felt it was inappropriate with Ray standing right there next to the car)...

[tarotx]

I think it depends on how the people around react. Ray didn't seem into it. Everyone who watched from Team Arrow to Team Flash seemed awkward. Oliver and Felicity touching seemed mutual so it depends on whose around.

Edited May 27, 2015 by tarotx

[Genki]

I liked all the touchy/feely-ness in 3.23 because it was weird to me that there wasn't more.

 

The fact that there wasn't a kiss anywhere was jarring, so I liked the out of frame hand holding between Oliver and Felicity and all the other little stuff like the shoulder sniff, besides she just got him back and this time he was hers. 

 

I'm too biased against Ray to comment but was I not as comfortable.

[Ceylon5]

It's very much in the eye of the beholder.  I just rewatched the scenes with Ray and I didn't ever get the impression that he wasn't "into it".  The only one I found embarrassing was the one at the beginning of The Flash episode - but that was because they were putting their feet in their mouths and embarrassing each other in an embarrassment spiral of doom.  It was meant to be embarrassing, but was poorly written and I think we all could have done without it, in story and out.  Other than that, she didn't actually ever touch him for very long, and many of the touches tended to be very light (e.g. a brief touch of her hand on his arm) and on several occasions he initiated or responded in kind.  A couple were also after dramatic events where one or both of them had been beaten up by the bad guy, so that was understandable (in the first one of those I'm sure she was touching his shoulder in puzzlement, wondering where the hell his gigantic arrow wound from the previous episode had vanished to.  Or that's what I was wondering, anyway.)  And it only happened in 3 Arrow episodes in total, so ended almost as soon as it began.

 

I would have preferred the scene where Oliver tells her he wants to be with her to not have happened in front of the others.  It was weird to do that in front of her ex, his ex, his "wife", his sister and the hated Malcolm (Diggle by himself I wouldn't have minded as much because he'd been privy to the whole relationship - though he was the one who walked out, so what do I know?).  They should have had a private moment for something so intimate, especially since all their other conversations about their relationship happened in private.

[wonderwall]

I would have preferred the scene where Oliver tells her he wants to be with her to not have happened in front of the others.  It was weird to do that in front of her ex, his ex, his "wife", his sister and the hated Malcolm (Diggle by himself I wouldn't have minded as much because he'd been privy to the whole relationship - though he was the one who walked out, so what do I know?).  They should have had a private moment for something so intimate, especially since all their other conversations about their relationship happened in private.

 

Oh yes, I 100% agree with this. I'm surprised no one else found it a bit weird for Oliver to tell Felicity this in front of everyone. Then again, I'm not really surprised that he's so open and honest about his feelings. I don't think he gives a damn anymore :p 

[lemotomato]

I would have preferred the scene where Oliver tells her he wants to be with her to not have happened in front of the others. It was weird to do that in front of her ex, his ex, his "wife", his sister and the hated Malcolm (Diggle by himself I wouldn't have minded as much because he'd been privy to the whole relationship - though he was the one who walked out, so what do I know?). They should have had a private moment for something so intimate, especially since all their other conversations about their relationship happened in private.

Yeah, I loved that he declared his feelings, but I felt so weirded out that he did it in front of everyone. Nyssa actually had to scoot out of the way so he could get close to Felicity. (Maybe they were going for symbolism? It seemed like strange blocking to me.)

[olicityfan25]

Isn't this type of stuff dictated by the director or the people who direct the actors on what to do In a scene?

[kismet]

It only didn't bother me, because all season she was asking him to not dangle maybes and to make a choice. So when he had the opportunity, I think he just went for it. A public declaration of feelings is definitely making a choice. I was more surprised by his "I love you all the more for it" comment in the catacombs. But after the season they had whats a little love declaration in front of everyone? I also was not surprised because it does feel like the writers wanted to intentionally make the declaration in front of exes, wives, enemies and partners. It seemed like they were going for Oliver finally grows a pair and chooses himself and Felicity. It's his big moment, so why not share it with everyone? Although Nyssa moving out of the way was some weird blocking.They'll have many more private moments to come. Plus in my head canon, they most definitely kissed and had some type of conversation after the whole flying suit rescue.

[AyChihuahua]

I didn't actually watch episodes between 9 and 23, but from youtube, she was hanging on Ray's arm in the beginning of The Offer when Ray was trying to work, and even acknowledged to Oliver, Ray, and Diggle that she was being inappropriate nearly kissing Ray in front of them in 19.  I can't remember the episode in which she was hanging on his shoulder, but I remember the scene.  And I agree there should have been a quick kiss in 23, I'm just not sure where.  Whoever said there's a difference between clinging and touching, I agree.  I don't remember EVER thinking she seemed clingy or desperate prior to getting together with Ray.  (Again, I give her a total pass with Cooper because she was maybe 19, and a total pass in 23 because come on!)  

 

I think if this were RL, Oliver and Felicity would be PDA-ing it up all over the place in kind of a nauseatingly cute way, it'd be totally mutual, and not bother me too much.  I don't, though, think they'll go there with SA and EBR.  I think they'll be somewhat touchy but she won't be clingy, and I can chalk the Ray-draping up to temporary insanity.  I feel like SA doesn't dole out a huge amount of on-camera overt physical affection. 

[statsgirl]

Isn't this type of stuff dictated by the director or the people who direct the actors on what to do In a scene?

I think they did that to save time. It was a super busy episode, and having Oliver make the declaration in front of everyone meant they didn't have to do two separate scenes, one with Felicity alone and the other announcing his plans to the team at large.

 

It only didn't bother me, because all season she was asking him to not dangle maybes and to make a choice. So when he had the opportunity, I think he just went for it. A public declaration of feelings is definitely making a choice. I was more surprised by his "I love you all the more for it" comment in the catacombs

I think he suspected at the time that he might not make it back to Starling City alive so this was the time to respond to Felicity's all-out attempt to save him with an all--out declaration of his own.

[olicityfan25]

Statsgirl sorry I meant for the clinging. Isn't that basically what the writers/scriopt/director placement people tell the actors what to do and where to stand?

[statsgirl]

Sorry for misinterpreting.

 

It's a combination of director and actors. The actors come up with ideas and that gets okay'd by the director, who may add or make changes on his/her own. With TV, which has to shoot a lot of scenes fast, I think the director pretty much counts on the actors while in a film which has more time to shoot, the director has more input.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if EBR did play Felicity as extra physically affectionate with Ray because it was really Oliver she wanted.  When Oliver and Felicity are together together, as in the restaurant in The Calm where they just do a slightly awkward hug, or in the car in the last scene, there isn't a lot of PDA, or even DA.  For example, in the car he hasn't got his arm around her and she's snuggling in to him, they're both seat comfortably but not touching.

[Chaser]

I'm of the opinion that a lot of the PDA was scripted. I contribute it to the general over exaggeration of anything involving Ray. Ray and Felicity was supposed to be this super affectionate relationship for Felicity (giving her what Oliver couldn't/wouldn't) and it was supposed to show Ray in the best possible light for the viewers. They over compensated. 

 

The only part that really had me uncomfortable (on Arrow) was 3x19 in front of Oliver. That just didn't make any sense. Ray just had Jello and Felicity to that point had been considerate of Oliver's feelings (jumping away from Ray when Oliver walked in). Then all the sudden they were almost kissing and really touchy coupled with Felicity's almost ILY to Oliver. All I could think is they wanted both Ray and Oliver to benefit from Felicity being their girl; this was Ray's 'Hero' episode and they still needed to more Olicity along. It all got jumbled. 

[quarks]

I think actors/directors/shows might also have felt the need to visually remind casual viewers that Felicity was in fact dating Ray - especially over on Flash. She had more scenes in that episode with Barry than with Ray, and exchanged about the same amount of dialogue with Eddie as she did with Ray. Ray, meanwhile, spent the majority of his time with Cisco.  For casual Flash-only viewers that had originally seen her discussing Oliver with Barry, then seen her show up with Oliver, clearly on at least good friendship terms with him, and then saw her pop up on Flash with Ray, that "he's my boyfriend" bit might have been missed without the added visual clues. 

 

With episode 19, viewers who missed a few episodes and just popped in would have started with the awkward scene where Ray backed off from his whole "I love you," with Felicity in the hospital - which could have been said prior to any actual dating - after all, Oliver declared his feelings for Felicity before they went on a date, and after they broke up after a half a date. It's not normal in real life, but it happens on television all the time - Agents of Shield did it just last season; Castle did this a few seasons ago. So that episode needed to visually establish that yes, Felicity is technically dating Ray -- thus explaining why, in her huge "I know who you are," scene with Oliver later, she doesn't say I love you to Oliver or launch herself into his arms even though Oliver could probably stand to hear both.

 

Going forward, I'm going to guess that, outside of sweeps months, most of the Oliver/Felicity PDAs will happen when/if the episode has a plot related reason to remind us that the two of them are together. 

[Ceylon5]

Context is important.

 

I didn't actually watch episodes between 9 and 23, but from youtube, she was hanging on Ray's arm in the beginning of The Offer when Ray was trying to work...

 

Actually, he wasn't trying to work - she was the one working in this scene.  This was their first post-sex scene together and they were flirting like crazy.  She'd just done something clever that he had been struggling to do for weeks and he pretended to disbelieve her and came over to "check she'd done it right" (i.e. admire her brilliant work) and she watched over his shoulder for a few seconds (6, to be exact) and teased him while he was doing so.  It was a perfectly normal scene for a couple who'd just started dating.  And this wasn't really PDA because they were alone and she sprang away from him as soon as Oliver showed up.  It was the only time she touched him that whole episode, but was required as a necessary establishing scene to show that they're now officially dating (i.e. the sex wasn't just a one time thing).

 

Also, I think the touching in E19 should be partly ascribed to the fact that Ray almost died the previous episode (because he'd jumped in front of an arrow to save her).  When you almost lose someone like that, it's normal to touch them a lot for a while afterwards to assure yourself that they're really there and okay.  Plus he was putting himself in harm's way again and she was really worried about him.  And on top of that was her feeling bad about the whole I love you/jello debacle.  There were lots of in story explanations for why she might have felt the need to show him a bit of non-verbal reassuring affection, especially with Oliver standing about glowering and criticizing Ray. [ETA: Just checked this: she touched him three times in this episode - once for a split second in the "I could kiss you right now" moment when she leaned towards him, then immediately pulled back again, once for a little longer (touching his shoulder and arm) after he got beaten up and she was checking him for the mysteriously missing arrow wound, and then finally in the scene when he rescues her from the bad guy and she hugs him (that one wasn't PDA because the bad guy was unconscious).  I think people might be making far more of this in their heads than actually existed on screen.  In the same episode she hugged Roy goodbye and held Oliver's arm afterwards (both in front of Ray).  It's really just her thing.]

Edited May 28, 2015 by Ceylon5

[romantic idiot]

I like that the she is touchy feely. She is physically expressive and open and there is nothing wrong with that. Honestly, i think Oliver needs that too. He's quite closed off and was isolated for a lot, so being with someone who likes to touch would be good for him, IMO. 

[tv echo]

Just catching up on these posts...

 

I'm so sick of the double standard when it comes to Felicity - and not just in regards to her crying versus other characters crying.  So she had a raw, emotional reaction to the idea of losing Oliver again.   It's not like she pushed a button and killed thousands of SC citizens in order to save Oliver.  Ray asked her WWOD (What Would Oliver Do?) and she found another way to save him.  I don't believe for a second that she would seriously consider saving Oliver over saving the lives of thousands of other people.(*)  Her "But Oliver" was a plea to Ray for help -- it was a "but we must save Oliver as well (as the thousands of other people), how can we do it?" plea.  Yet, over on The Flash, Barry made a selfish, unilateral decision that risked the lives of billions of people in the world (without their consent) in order to travel back in time to save his mother (even then, he didn't save her, he just talked to her).  Yet he's still a hero - where's the Barry bashing?(**)  At least Felicity never made the deliberate, consciously selfish decision that Barry made.

 

(* Even if she had considered saving Oliver's life over the lives of thousands of other people for a split second, can we blame her?  If you were in the middle of a pandemic, a natural catastrophe or a war, and you had to choose between saving the lives of your family or the lives of thousands of strangers, what would you do?)

 

(** I have not visited The Flash forum lately because, tbqh, I just don't have the time to fully keep up with more than one forum.  So I don't know if fans have called out Barry for his decision over there.  But I have read some reviews of TF finale and they all viewed Barry's time travel moment as heartbreaking, not selfish.)

 

I'm also sick of the "because comics" argument for GA and BC.  It's already been discussed ad nauseam in this forum how Oliver and Laurel aren't anything like their comics counterparts in terms of back stories, jobs, personalities, families, friends, etc., plus the various versions of "comics canon" - so yeah, selective canonization is going on.

Edited May 28, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

I think actors/directors/shows might also have felt the need to visually remind casual viewers that Felicity was in fact dating Ray - especially over on Flash. She had more scenes in that episode with Barry than with Ray, and exchanged about the same amount of dialogue with Eddie as she did with Ray. Ray, meanwhile, spent the majority of his time with Cisco.  For casual Flash-only viewers that had originally seen her discussing Oliver with Barry, then seen her show up with Oliver, clearly on at least good friendship terms with him, and then saw her pop up on Flash with Ray, that "he's my boyfriend" bit might have been missed without the added visual clues. 

 

With episode 19, viewers who missed a few episodes and just popped in would have started with the awkward scene where Ray backed off from his whole "I love you," with Felicity in the hospital - which could have been said prior to any actual dating - after all, Oliver declared his feelings for Felicity before they went on a date, and after they broke up after a half a date. It's not normal in real life, but it happens on television all the time - Agents of Shield did it just last season; Castle did this a few seasons ago. So that episode needed to visually establish that yes, Felicity is technically dating Ray -- thus explaining why, in her huge "I know who you are," scene with Oliver later, she doesn't say I love you to Oliver or launch herself into his arms even though Oliver could probably stand to hear both.

I guess my question would be - does it matter that casual FLASH viewers really know that RP & FS are dating? I mean the in-script references are fine. But at this point Arrow writers know they're returning to FS/OQ, so I don't think there was such an abundant need to drive home the fact that FS/RP are dating for the FLASH audience. But like I said before, I didn't really care for how they wrote FS as a whole for that episode anyway. It sorta felt like writers only had one view of who FS is. I feel her character is far more complex & layered than how they wrote her in that episode.

 

As for her behavior in 319, I really can't explain how the writers intentionally went from jello to FS hanging over RP in foundry, to then holding off on the break-up until 320. I get your point about showing the audience visually & I get whoever mentioned that she might be feeling awful for her jello response & thus overcompensating. But there did seem to be a bit of a disconnect. I think they were trying to use FS as a hero prop for both guys in 319 & it just was awkward to watch. My other theory is the writers' feelings towards FS/RP may vary and we might have seen some of those differences in personal opinions reflected in how they opted to write both FS & RP at times. Everyone has to stick to the general plan, but they can add their own spin on the facts which might describe some of the inconsistencies. 

[AyChihuahua]

If it helps at all, tons of people on various forums have called Barry a selfish asshole for risking causing a BLACK HOLE to suck in the ENTIRE EARTH just so he could maybe save his mother.  Who of course would also die if the BLACK HOLE sucked in the entire Earth.  Not his most shining moment.

 

I had zero problem with Felicity's "save Oliver" moment.  In general when people say something off the cuff in the middle of a huge life and death moment, I give them a pass.  I was much more upset with some of the crappy stuff she said to Oliver in their relationship fight in the wedding episode, because that was just a regular fight (for them), not a life and death moment.

[quarks]

I guess my question would be - does it matter that casual FLASH viewers really know that RP & FS are dating? I mean the in-script references are fine. But at this point Arrow writers know they're returning to FS/OQ, so I don't think there was such an abundant need to drive home the fact that FS/RP are dating for the FLASH audience. But like I said before, I didn't really care for how they wrote FS as a whole for that episode anyway. It sorta felt like writers only had one view of who FS is. I feel her character is far more complex & layered than how they wrote her in that episode.

 

 

In that episode, I think yes. Because otherwise it's difficult to explain why Ray is even there. In the previous two crossovers, Felicity had made a point of preserving both Oliver and Barry's secret identities, and yet in this episode - an episode that also happens to have the ongoing plot of "Why, really, tell Iris anything?" and an episode where Felicity continues to go along with not telling Iris anything even though about twenty people know at this point - Felicity tells Ray. Not to mention that Ray initially comes off as a bit of a clown, what with having problems with the landing and the suit, and that Team Flash in general, apart from Firestorm, has not reacted well to other characters with superpowers. And there's the question of why, exactly, Ray bought out an entire restaurant that ordinary people need to reserve two to three months ahead of time (although I don't think that the show did a great job with this). So I think the show had to establish why Felicity told Ray and why Ray is willing to make these grand gestures for her and Team Flash without making it look that bad.

 

I'm not going to try to defend episode 17.

[Ceylon5]

Continuity-wise, this show made zero sense this season.  When did that Flash episode even fit in and when did Ray start suddenly having trouble with his suit that needed Cisco's help?  That suit is like Laurel's fighting ability - it seems to work or not work solely at the whim of Plot.  Felicity didn't break up with Ray in E18, when it would have made sense, because they wanted her to still be dating him for the Team Up (not sure why they'd want that, but whatever), or even in E19, because they wanted her to borrow his plane in E20 (again, not necessary given how many times they managed that trip without Ray's plane before and after that one time).  So the breakup had to happen in a rushed little scene in the same episode she sleeps with Oliver and she didn't even get to initiate it.  Also, the only reason Felicity waited 3 weeks to tell Thea about Roy was because they wanted to show it on-screen at the end of the next episode and Oliver's LOA plot-line had fast-forwarded them all to 3 weeks later, so tough for Felicity's characterisation and things making sense, just have her randomly wait for 3 weeks for no logical reason.  

 

Likewise, the much discussed "But Oliver..." moment from the finale - nothing about that set-up made sense.  Why were the cops waiting politely for the duel to be decided?  Why did they want to shoot the winner?  And why won't they obey their boss?  In what universe did any of that make any sense to anyone?  Who are these writers?  Then they put Felicity on the spot and instead of the logical response ("Ray, I can code 5000x faster than you, so I'll take over the computer stuff and you can fly your temperamental suit and go fetch Oliver"), they have a really awkward conversation that is suddenly dropped in the middle because they wanted the "Gotcha" moment when we see Felicity in the suit after the rescue.  Now I liked Felicity getting to save Oliver, but they set it up so poorly that it made everyone look stupid in the process, and I'm not sure that much stupidity is worth the pay-off we got.  Everything about the season was like that.  It's like they had a list of results they wanted but how they got there didn't matter to them at all.

 

Now I can't hold any of this stuff against the characters, because it was too clear that all the stupidity belonged solely to the writers.  But knowing that takes me out of the story and weakens my connection to the characters because I have to dismiss half of what's going on in their lives because I can see the plot bending them every which way to fit each new silly plot-point and "surprise" the writers have in store.  Nothing made sense. Nothing was consistent.  Nothing followed on from anything that had happened before it.  So that leaves the audience unable to really get involved in the story or care about the characters or what's happening to them.  I'm going to just largely erase this season from my mind and hope for better things next season.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Ceylon5

[kismet]

In that episode, I think yes. Because otherwise it's difficult to explain why Ray is even there. In the previous two crossovers, Felicity had made a point of preserving both Oliver and Barry's secret identities, and yet in this episode - an episode that also happens to have the ongoing plot of "Why, really, tell Iris anything?" and an episode where Felicity continues to go along with not telling Iris anything even though about twenty people know at this point - Felicity tells Ray. Not to mention that Ray initially comes off as a bit of a clown, what with having problems with the landing and the suit, and that Team Flash in general, apart from Firestorm, has not reacted well to other characters with superpowers. And there's the question of why, exactly, Ray bought out an entire restaurant that ordinary people need to reserve two to three months ahead of time (although I don't think that the show did a great job with this). So I think the show had to establish why Felicity told Ray and why Ray is willing to make these grand gestures for her and Team Flash without making it look that bad.

 

I'm not going to try to defend episode 17.

Fair assessment. As a casual viewer of the Flash, I think him showing up at Star Labs to work out the kinks of the suit would have been fine enough reason for me. Who he's sleeping with didn't really cross my mind - nor did I need hear about it through FS explanation of that poorly written sexual innuendo/quasi joke. If Team Flash trusts FS, and FS trusts RP then that probably would have been enough reason for her to bring him & his suit to Cisco who has more mechanical engineering talents. Their romance added nothing to the story, other than to perhaps further remove FS as a love interest for BA. But he seemed a little preoccupied to care about LIs at the time. As for the dinner, well that was really a crappy way to write Ray. Honestly, the more I think about the more that episode was just poorly written all around.

[Angel12d]

Just leaving this here. Relevant to a discussion we've all had about Felicity and crying this season. Also, love that this guy defends Felicity against the haters. 

 

http://ah-maa-zing.tumblr.com/post/120182778839/stereoheart07-ah-maa-zing-matt-leiberman

[olicityfan25]

Yeah I say to everyone to reblog that and like it. Spread it around. They just want to erase all the great stuff she did in season 3.

[wonderwall]

I am a fan of this meta regarding Felicity: 

 

It occurred to me that everyone on this show has their families with them no matter how dysfunctional they are.. except for Felicity

Oliver has Thea, Diggle has Lyla and Sara, Laurel has her father and Felicity is completely alone in Starling City! Yes she does have a mother who loves her very much but she’s thousands of miles away from her. sometimes when everything goes to crap, we just need our family to confide in and she never had that during these 3 years. In 2.07 after Count’s attack Oliver told her to go home but to whom? She was completely alone that night. She almost died and she had no one to confide in, no one to tell her that everything’s going to be okay. Yes she does have her friends but that’s not the same. Felicity was lonely. Even in season 2.5 moment before she gets kindapped she enters her home and says “honey i’m home” and that was extremely heartbreaking to me. Felicity Smoak lived half of her life alone, ever since her father left her.
 

That’s why Oliver is so important to her. He gave her family, a sense of belonging. That’s why it’s so easy for Felicity to leave her job and her house in Starling City because for her, home isn’t Starling City or Las Vegas, it’s Oliver Queen. 

“If you ever need to tell someone about your day, you can tell me”
 

Felicity brought light and direction into Oliver’s life and in return he gave her something she never had before: A Home (source)

 

This is exactly the reason why when Oliver was pushing Felicity away, I found it believable that Felicity would want to look for someone else. I feel like Felicity craved for that human connection with someone after having a taste of it with Oliver. I think that Felicity has been lonely during her time in Starling and had gone through so many hard times that it makes sense why she would want someone to come home to. Someone to talk to when her day was rough. Just, someone. I think Felicity's desperation for a human connection was the reason why she wanted to hang onto Ray for a while. She was having a hard time dealing with Oliver's death that she just needed someone. In the end though, I think Felicity sort of realized that even though she has that connection with someone that doesn't mean she'll love them, nor would she truly be happy.

 

I think this is why I didn't find Felicity pathetic for going between Ray and Oliver. I think that it's human for her to want to have that connection with someone. That's why I was never frustrated with her regarding this issue. 

 

In the end though, even though Felicity did have Ray, she couldn't overlook the fact that she found a home in Oliver and Diggle and the team. And that's why she stuck with Oliver. He'd given her something no one else ever had. Which is how I think he opened her heart in a way no one else ever had. And I think that's just beautiful. 

Edited May 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

I never found it pathetic or unrealistic that she would want to be with another person while OQ was pushing her away. Human connection is very important. I was surprised that she did not get with Ray before the winter finale almost for that same reason. I mean the way the writers wrote some of her scenes in s2 it was as if she virtually/mentally dated from a distance while he was in a coma. Now that she had an option that was actually in town, I would have thought she might have tried to make a connection sooner - especially when OQ was being such a knucklehead.

 

It wasn't a R/F relationship that suprised or bothered me. It was the timing & execution of the storyline. It was the fact that I did not like some of the ways they chose to write Ray, that he would not have been a choice I wanted for FS. His character for as idealized as they tried to make him, had some pretty questionable character traits that made raised concern flags in my head. It's also that they seemed to diminish FS as a character to accomodate for her relationship. I would have liked to see more of a storyline about her and not just her propping up Ray's storyline. But then again, as with most of s3 - it was a writers' fail on execution not concept.

[tv echo]

Screenshot of Felicity's PT personnel file (taken by fan, another fan transcribed the file info)..

 

Name: Felicity Megan Smoak

Address on File: 2318 N. Highbury Ave, #413  Starling City

Contact: © 878 555-0130 (E) smoakfelicitymegan@gmail.com

Company Position: Vice President, PALMER TECHNOLOGIES 2014 - present
 

Selected to create a full business case package to support investment of $780M in industrial materials from Kord Enterprises. Constructed winning bid chosen over major consultancy firms based on straightforward, credible approach.

(source for screenshot)

(source for info)

Edited June 6, 2015 by tv echo

[BunsenBurner]

A Pittsburg Pennsylvania area code? I would have thought she would have a Cambridge MA or Vegas number.

Edited June 6, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[statsgirl]

She won a major bid from Kord Enterprises, and she was working at Tech Village?  Are medical and dental packages in the US worth that much?

Edited June 7, 2015 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

She won a major bid for Kord Enterprises, and she was working at Tech Village?  Are medical and dental packages in the US worth that much?

Extremely condensed and non-political answer? Yes. Working for a company that provides health and dental is makes more financial sense than buying an individual plan or going without health insurance in the US. Even if it's a job you don't like. 

 

Although, given how she kept avoiding going to the hospital even after getting shot or blown up, maybe she could have gone without insurance.

[Ceylon5]

She won a major bid for Kord Enterprises, and she was working at Tech Village?  Are medical and dental packages in the US worth that much?

 

It says she won a major bid FROM Kord Enterprises, not for them.  I'm assuming that it means that she closed a $780m deal for Palmer Tech to do business with Kord Enterprises.  This wouldn't have had anything to do with Tech Village; it would have been her biggest achievement to date since she started working at Palmer Tech.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Ceylon5

[kismet]

My question was always why she didn't just back to working in the IT dept or another dept of QC? Doesn't she at one point in 301 mention how OQ cares about the people (including her) still working at QC & that is part of his appeal. I know OQ lost his role there, but she still could have kept her job there. At what point does she leave OQ? Was her working at Tech Village just another way to write Ray into the story? If that is the case, I think I would have preferred if he just promoted her internally rather than buy out a whole holding company that owns Tech Village. That felt very overbearing creepy stalker way of recruitment.

[wonderwall]

In the comics, it said that Felicity was working for Kord Industries but got fired because she had a tough time balancing real life and vigilante life (and also because she got kidnapped and she didn't go into work). I think Felicity, at that point, started working for Tech Village because she knew that working for another company like Kord would be short lived as it would would interfere with her vigilante life and she wouldn't be able to give it much attention. Tech Village probably allowed for more flexible hours and less attention so she could focus on helping TA save the city. 

 

Now then you'd ask, but then why would she work for Ray at PT? Well because Ray didn't really give her much of a choice, did he? He bought out Tech Village, and not only that, I feel like Felicity thought that because he was so desperate to have her work for him, the hours would be more flexible and she wouldn't have to worry about getting fired. Someone who goes through all that trouble just to hire someone won't just fire them because they miss a few days of work. 

[Chaser]

At the beginning of the season I was really excited at the prospect of Felicity getting this amazing position at this big company. But now I think it would have been a much more interesting storyline to mesh more elements of the 2.5 comics. Instead of opening with Felicity at Tech Village, have her still working at Kord Industries. The blow-up on the date, her missing work because of trying to find Sara's death, have her boss make some comments about her being to distracted and always having to leave, show her getting fired a few episodes in. Have a few episodes of her unable to get a job in her field because of her spotty employment history and rumors surrounding her and Oliver, forcing her to take a job at Tech Village. 

 

Instead of going to work for Palmer directly, have her start her own Consulting Business. Palmer finds her and offers her a contract with Palmer Tech. That is how she gets involved with with building his suit and the company.

[kismet]

Thanks! Her career options were not really well explained in the first episodes. I totally missed her Kord industry stint. I thought she went straight to Tech Village after OQ was non longer working at QC.

It never bothered me that she worked for Ray at PT. Thought it was great opportunity. I just didnt enjoy how writers/RP recruited her to the job. Personally I thought it could have been handled better without the RP stalker like behaviors.
 

Edited - because duplicated text. Posting from work can be challenging at times.

Edited June 7, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

It would have made far more sense for Felicity Smoak, tech genius and independent thinker, to be running her own consulting company than working at Tech Village, even if only for the fact that working for her own company would have given her more flex time for her Team Arrow activities when she needed it.

 

However, it wouldn't have put her in Ray's power, either to first tell him she's not working for him, and then later to go back and say she wants the job after all.

 

It also made Ray look good because she thought she was going for an EA job and it turned out that she was an executive with an EA of her own.

 

It says she won a major bid FROM Kord Enterprises, not for them.  I'm assuming that it means that she closed a $780m deal for Palmer Tech to do business with Kord Enterprises.  This wouldn't have had anything to do with Tech Village; it would have been her biggest achievement to date since she started working at Palmer Tech.

Sorry, a typo.  But it's a good point that if she won the contract for PT rather than for her own independent company (which I assumed from the 2.5 comics), it would be on her PT profile.

 

It also explains a) her worth as a vice-president if she can pull in that kind of contract and b) setting it up for her to run PT/QC/QI if that's what they want to do next season  because it moves her from tech to management.

[Password]

It also made Ray look good

You made me so sad by using this phrase.

[JenMD]

Thanks! Her career options were not really well explained in the first episodes. I totally missed her Kord industry stint. I thought she went straight to Tech Village after OQ was non longer working at QC.

I believe the Kord Industries stint is comics only, not mentioned onscreen.  As far as viewers know, she went from QC to Tech Village.

[wonderwall]

It would have made far more sense for Felicity Smoak, tech genius and independent thinker, to be running her own consulting company than working at Tech Village, even if only for the fact that working for her own company would have given her more flex time for her Team Arrow activities when she needed it.

 

You need capital in order to start your own company, something of which Felicity didn't have at that time. Even if she opened up a 1 employee consulting company she'd have to go through all the legal issues, forms, etc. That too, I feel like starting your own consulting company would take a lot of time, more time than Felicity was willing to give. So while Felicity did build a rep in the tech world, I'm sure normal people wouldn't know who she is so she'd have to build a rep for the non-tech people. I'm just saying it didn't seem feasible at the time. Especially if Felicity was banking on Oliver getting the company back. I mean, she prepped him and everything, so... yeah :p 

[Carrie Ann]

You don't have to actually start a company simply to be a consultant though, so none of that process would be necessary. You're just self-employed; you get your insurance through the ACA, pay your taxes quarterly, and that's that. It makes no sense that Felicity wouldn't have pursued this, and in fact, she did, because according to the comics, her "job" with Kord Industries was a contract position. I understand why she wouldn't seek out a permanent position at Kord or wherever, because she was holding out hope for QC, but with her capabilities, she could certainly have freelanced indefinitely. That whole Tech Village thing was ridiculous, and I'm convinced the writers did it because they envisioned a "started from the bottom, now we here" arc for her with the PT ownership thing at the end of the season.

[wonderwall]

You don't have to actually start a company simply to be a consultant though, so none of that process would be necessary. You're just self-employed; you get your insurance through the ACA, pay your taxes quarterly, and that's that. It makes no sense that Felicity wouldn't have pursued this, and in fact, she did, because according to the comics, her "job" with Kord Industries was a contract position. I understand why she wouldn't seek out a permanent position at Kord or wherever, because she was holding out hope for QC, but with her capabilities, she could certainly have freelanced indefinitely. That whole Tech Village thing was ridiculous, and I'm convinced the writers did it because they envisioned a "started from the bottom, now we here" arc for her with the PT ownership thing at the end of the season.

 

Thanks for making that clearer for me :D 

 

Yeah if the process is rather simple I can see why she may want to be self-employed. Maybe she just wanted a steady flow of income? That's the only thing I can think of. That and having to build a repertoire of clients takes time and effort. Otherwise she'd be broke fast. Freelancing is a risk and maybe Felicity didn't want to take that risk? IDK 

[statsgirl]

If Felicity is as good as the show says she is, she could earn a lot more consulting than she could at Tech Village and afford to pay her own dental and medical insurance..  She could have billed $200 an hour or more, and no one would question when she left work early to help Oliver and Diggle.

 

That whole Tech Village thing was ridiculous, and I'm convinced the writers did it because they envisioned a "started from the bottom, now we here" arc for her with the PT ownership thing at the end of the season.

Or because they were going for the comedy factor, and a nod to Buy More from Chuck.

 

Just like her emotional life s3 was not about Felicity but about Oliver and Ray Palmer, her working life ended up being about Ray and his need to build his super suit.  The EPs probably thought it was cute that she was working at Tech Village and Ray swooped in, wanted her so much that he bought the company and made her a VP.   They may have even thought that we would be cheering as Ray mansplained that her anger was not really about him, and then presented her with her own EA..

[AyChihuahua]

With how Felicity has been portrayed so far, she would already be a multi-millionaire on her own.  She'd have patents, etc., for all kinds of things.  I mean, she wrote a supervirus that took down a city IN COLLEGE (from which she graduated at 19).  Plus I always figured she'd drain Isabel's and Slade's various accounts, and they were both obviously wealthy.  So they stuck her at that stupid store for stupid plot reasons, just like they did everything in S3.

[wonderwall]

It's hilarious how The Flash is casting another love interest for Barry and they want this character to be like Felicity Smoak. Ummm......? Is it just me or is DC really trying to capitalize on Felicity and making Felicity-like characters everywhere? Kara Danvers reminded me of Felicity and now this? 

[lemotomato]

I hope decoy Felicity on Flash means that actual Felicity doesn't have to keep crossing over and having her character-building moments there. And that the Flash fans can stop hating on her.

Edited June 10, 2015 by lemotomato

[Betweenthisandthat]

Is it just me or is DC really trying to capitalize on Felicity and making Felicity-like characters everywhere? Kara Danvers reminded me of Felicity and now this?

 

I think the comparisons actually do an injustice to Felicity.  Not to pick on you because I've seen other people say this and even TVline is explicitly saying that The Flash is looking for another Felicity.  But what does that mean?  How is Supergirl like Felicity?  She's cute, white, young, awkward, wears glasses   That just seems like surface similarities when the two characters have different lives entirely.  

 

I would love to see Felicity being written as one of a kind, not someone who can be reduced and copied so easily for another superhero on another show to fall for.  I know it's hard to be original, and originality isn't something TV strives for what but about writing different kinds of female characters, not replicating the same one so obviously from the beginning?  What I loved about Felicity especially in the first season was how different she was from everyone else, and I enjoyed how different and diverse the female characters were in those first two seasons.  Writing diverse female characters and remembering what makes each one of them different and interesting is probably too much to ask from these shows, but I wish they'd at least try.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[statsgirl]

I also wish that Felicity were unique rather than copied everywhere but it's the way of entertainment media these days.  Something is good, or its successful and everything changes to copy it.  It's the 40th anniversary of Jaws, which created the summer blockbuster movie.  And then Star Wars happened and since then, for the last 39 years, every sci fi/fantasy movie has pretty much followed the same format, not a local threat like Jaws was but something that will devastate the Earth and requires a stoic male hero to save us.  None of the male leads on TV had scruff until Hugh Laurie auditioned for House while shooting a film in the desert and couldn't shave his off for the audition, and now at least half of the male leads are sporting scruff from Stephen Amell to historical pieces like Copper.

 

Up until Felicity, intelligent females tended to be written as caricatures like Garcia on Criminal Minds or Abby on NCIS.  (The Chloes on Smallville and 24 were an exception but they were never the leads either.)  It might be annoying to find so many females characters cast as a Felicity-type now but it's really quite a compliment to EBR and the writers who write for her. 

[Chaser]

One of the things I hope they never do to Felicity is turn her into a kick ass fighter ala late seasons Chloe (Masquerade was fun but I cringed at the FBI agent takedown). I don't want a mask or a costume for her. I want 'I have basic self-defense lessons' Felicity. I embrace quirky, assertive, slightly awkward, strong Felicity. I don't want them to 'cool up' Felicity. 

[kismet]

I don't want them to "cool up" FS per se. I enjoy the quirky, slightly awkward yet strong persona. But getting her into the field more would not be something I would be against. I enjoyed when she was in the field in s1 and s2. I think there are missions where her intelligence and skills could come in handy in the field. I also don't want her to just be the girl behind the comms. I find there is a balance they can strike where she can still be Felicity and still be out in the field as part of the team.

 

Also if there is going to be a mask/costume required for screen time or decent plot lines, then I definitely want her to get a mask/costume.

[wonderwall]

I would love Felicity to go out into the field to gather intelligence and whatnot once in a while. But I don't think she'd need a mask for it. I'd rather her use the ski mask she used in season 2 when they blew up the QC Labs or whatever that was...

 

I'd also love to see her go undercover. Wear a fancy dress or a good wig (not something shitty like Oliver's island hair or Laurel's BC wig) or something.