Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[BusterHymen]

37 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah maybe it landed differently in the early 80s--though I doubt it--but as someone who reads a lot of true crime and is familiar with several cases of women who've murdered mothers for their kids, including an instance that happened the next county over from me, I was absolutely appalled their reaction was to just shrug off all the incredibly alarming things she did and give her a kid and act like that was HEA. 

I was going to mention the orphan boy as well but the only reason I didn't was because he genuinely wanted to be adopted by a family and didn't want to go back to the orphanage. He said he was going to run away if forced to go back. Considering the lesser of the two evils, it was probably best for all parties involved for him to go to a family that will love him and give him a decent life. Having said that, let's be perfectly clear. That still doesn't absolve the psychopath Rose-Napper of any wrongdoing! there should have been some harsh consequences for her actions. 

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, BusterHymen said:

I was going to mention the orphan boy as well but the only reason I didn't was because he genuinely wanted to be adopted by a family and didn't want to go back to the orphanage. He said he was going to run away if forced to go back. Considering the lesser of the two evils, it was probably best for all parties involved for him to go to a family that will love him and give him a decent life. Having said that, let's be perfectly clear. That still doesn't absolve the psychopath Rose-Napper of any wrongdoing! there should have been some harsh consequences for her actions. 

That's fair. I just seriously have my doubts that someone who'd behaved that erratically was going to be a stable parent or that that level of crazy she'd displayed was going to just magically disappear once she got a kid.

Clearly the best solution was for Pa to bring another kid home to be raised by the most upstanding citizen in Minnesota! 😁

Edited June 14, 2023 by Zella

[Egg McMuffin]

13 hours ago, BusterHymen said:

That still doesn't absolve the psychopath Rose-Napper of any wrongdoing! there should have been some harsh consequences for her actions. 

At the very least, they should have given her Nancy to adopt instead.

[BusterHymen]

12 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

At the very least, they should have given her Nancy to adopt instead.

that definitely would have been some just deserts and comeuppance!

[jason88cubs]

[jird]

Just turned on the TV and it's the last few minutes of the Schlong of Healing episode. With exceptionally bad special effects (not something we usually have to say about Little House!)

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm watching the end of it right now. Charles' beard is an exceptionally bad special effect. 

 

Also, I happen to be a masonry engineer by trade, and I know that the Schlong of Healing itself appears to be about 25 years old. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Why didn’t Charles build a Scholong of Healing to cure Mary’s blindness? If I were her, I’d be pissed.

[jird]

16 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Why didn’t Charles build a Scholong of Healing to cure Mary’s blindness? If I were her, I’d be pissed.

Or for Albert's fatal nosebleeds?

[Egg McMuffin]

Charles knew deep down that a Scholong of Healing wouldn’t work for Albert, who killed Mary’s baby and Alice Garvey.

[Blergh]

9 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Charles knew deep down that a Scholong of Healing wouldn’t work for Albert, who killed Mary’s baby and Alice Garvey.

It probably would have worked better than the Dunk Tank of Shame did on Nancy! Of course, it was only after the Olesons found out that she'd evidently lied about having been abused by her mother (who'd , in fact, died giving birth to her)  that Harriet wanted to punish her at all- and first proposed just sending her to bed without. .. dessert!  Laura's [allegedly] wiser and cooler head prevailed, and voila the Dunk Tank of Shame with Harriet aiming straight at the lever. Of course, IIRC, Harriet just vented about how rotten Nancy was for not loving HER- neither she nor anyone else brought up the fact that Nancy had tricked others to lock the ice house door to deliberately  leave a one-shot girl trapped inside who only got saved from dying of exposure to cold by chance JUST because Willie and Albert were paying more attention to this girl than to HER.  Yep, as per Harriet and the others,  lying about one's childhood seemed to be far more of a serious transgression than attempting to have another person murdered!

Of course, the Dunking just exposed Nancy to the Walnut Grove citizenry as  wet liar but didn't prompt her to do a 180 re being a spiteful and entitled brat! Brilliant idea, Laura!

[debraran]

8 minutes ago, Blergh said:

It probably would have worked better than the Dunk Tank of Shame did on Nancy! Of course, it was only after the Olesons found out that she'd evidently lied about having been abused by her mother (who'd , in fact, died giving birth to her)  that Harriet wanted to punish her at all- and first proposed just sending her to bed without. .. dessert!  Laura's [allegedly] wiser and cooler head prevailed, and voila the Dunk Tank of Shame with Harriet aiming straight at the lever. Of course, IIRC, Harriet just vented about how rotten Nancy was for not loving HER- neither she nor anyone else brought up the fact that Nancy had tricked others to lock the ice house door to deliberately  leave a one-shot girl trapped inside who only got saved from dying of exposure to cold by chance JUST because Willie and Albert were paying more attention to this girl than to HER.  Yep, as per Harriet and the others,  lying about one's childhood seemed to be far more of a serious transgression than attempting to have another person murdered!

Of course, the Dunking just exposed Nancy to the Walnut Grove citizenry as  wet liar but didn't prompt her to do a 180 re being a spiteful and entitled brat! Brilliant idea, Laura!

Nancy had to be when Michael was busy with gossip and marriage woes, it was just so awful.  Being a man who adopted and was not against adoption, he showed Albert but was Nancy was warning to anyone thinking of it? Nothing the girl did was kind and she was a psychopath in the sense she couldn't feel for anyone but herself. You could see she'd sell Harriet off if someone came around to give her more, she learned how to act to get responses she wanted. Nellie was spoiled and a brat but it wasn't from birth. Willie was raised the same way and both matured. Nancy had no redeeming qualities. If you don't care if you kill someone, all the dunking in the world wont change you. It wasn't even impulsive like hitting someone which could happen, she planned it with her.

Edited June 16, 2023 by debraran

[Egg McMuffin]

And Nels, a genuinely kind man, did not like Nancy. At all. That was kind of odd and disturbing to see on a family show - a parent having no love for their own kid. But Nels had no say in adopting the girl; it was all Harriet.

The only time Nancy was written well was in one of the last episodes, where Willie gets married. Nancy is excited to be part of the wedding and seems relatively normal. The actress was capable of playing a mischievous, comic character. Too bad they saddled her with a such an awful characterization most of the time.

Does Allison Balson (Nancy) ever speak about the show? Melissas Gilbert and Anderson and Alison Arngrim have written books. I don’t see Jason Bateman talking much about it, but Melissa Francis (Cassandra), who is now a TV journalist, seems to fondly remember it. But I don’t recall seeing Allison Balson talking about it.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Egg McMuffin

[Blergh]

I have to admit that I felt sorry for Nancy when she dressed up as a ringmaster to present the 'trick' of a performer bursting out of burning haystack but, of course, it went horribly wrong with the performer getting overwhelmed by  the heat and smoke from within and burning to death in front of the entire crowd!  Even Nancy actually seemed to be horrified at that outcome despite (because?) of the fact that the performer had had nothing to do with her beforehand.

Of course, the performer had been a bully who'd just disowned one of his sons for NOT wanting to follow in the 'family tradition'  (but had successfully survived that stunt on countless occasions). Yet the 'prodigal' son somehow returned from his 'exile' to give comfort to the performer's shattered widow and younger son! I wonder if ML was trying to say something about pride going before the fall (as well as destroying filial bonds) and/or not quitting while ahead!

[jason88cubs]

I know nothing about Nancy. I always stop watching after season 5 usually

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

I know nothing about Nancy. I always stop watching after season 5 usually

You have done yourself a great favor and a great mercy.

[jason88cubs]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

You have done yourself a great favor and a great mercy.

I plan on watching the series in order at some point so I will get there!

[Mr. Sparkle]

I can watch through season 7, usually. As soon as James and Cassandra show up, I'm done. 

[jason88cubs]

I will say I do like the season 8 episode "The Legacy"

 

First time I saw the opening i was so confused!

 

 

 

so funny ^

[debraran]

14 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

And Nels, a genuinely kind man, did not like Nancy. At all. That was kind of odd and disturbing to see on a family show - a parent having no love for their own kid. But Nels had no say in adopting the girl; it was all Harriet.

The only time Nancy was written well was in one of the last episodes, where Willie gets married. Nancy is excited to be part of the wedding and seems relatively normal. The actress was capable of playing a mischievous, comic character. Too bad they saddled her with a such an awful characterization most of the time.

Does Allison Balson (Nancy) ever speak about the show? Melissas Gilbert and Anderson and Alison Arngrim have written books. I don’t see Jason Bateman talking much about it, but Melissa Francis (Cassandra), who is now a TV journalist, seems to fondly remember it. But I don’t recall seeing Allison Balson talking about it.

It doesn"t seem like she wants to talk about her short stint on the show. All her web pages and few interviews are about music or other things she is doing. I suppose any interview would be hard about LHOP because she was awful in every episode. Nellie was at least funny at times.

The wedding was sweet but it was "all about her" and she dumped her mom to go of course. Not the actress's fault it was so bad, but I hope she got a little money to help in other endeavors. I'm sure I'm not the only fan that turns it to another channel if I see her on.

I think ML must have wanted to kill the show then....or he was in another head space.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

I think ML must have wanted to kill the show then

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I feel like some of the weirder and more obnoxious turns in the late stages of the series make a lot more sense from that perspective. It doesn't justify them or make them work any better, but I just can't fathom how someone who was still wanting the show to be what it was would have signed off on those decisions. 

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I feel like some of the weirder and more obnoxious turns in the late stages of the series make a lot more sense from that perspective. It doesn't justify them or make them work any better, but I just can't fathom how someone who was still wanting the show to be what it was would have signed off on those decisions. 

Tax loss write-offs, perhaps?

Don't forget at the time  ML had quit performing on LHOTP on a regular basis to produce the vehicle for  Merlin Olsen  Father Murphy ( which, like Victor French's Carter Country stint, is IMO simply  best left forgotten).

[debraran]

Yes, to say I blew up the town because ratings kept falling was a big "duh" . Of course they did. The bright idea of a orangutan in Walnut Grove, a sociopath, the Carter's squeezing into the Ingall's home with all their stuff wasn't a pull for fans? You pulled your family to work in the "big, bad city" and the only way the fans saw a glimpse of the old show, was Albert puking for an hour and then better, but at least you got to see them home.

So many things he didn't want, Alison was written off and given a bad wig, (really bad) and he could have done something with her and Percival and Willie. Willie and Rachel could have moved into the LHOP cabin, that would have been sweet, he gets the WHOLE house. ; ) Mike just didn't want to do it anymore and from the acting, neither did the ones left. He had a good core but let the stories get stale and dry and brought in way to many kids and extras thinking they would help. They don't, the fans liked the Ingall's and he mistakenly thought any cute kid will do. He reused scripts, how many bad newspapers can we have? (I realize the tabloids killed him, but that was a consequence of his behavior being a star)

We will always have the first 5 seasons but I really hate how he ended it. Maybe just having it end with them moving and leaving the cabin empty for visits or having doc or someone there buy it, would have been better. He hated movies done later about the show but still would have left it open. He could have taken down the set if he didn't want anyone using it. So silly.

[Mr. Sparkle]

29 minutes ago, debraran said:

The bright idea of a orangutan in Walnut Grove, a sociopath, the Carter's squeezing into the Ingall's home with all their stuff wasn't a pull for fans?

Ironically, the orangutan was the best of those 3. 

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

Ironically, the orangutan was the best of those 3. 

Likely because it was a broad comic scenario that lasted only ONE episode while the other two ideas were permanent millstones to the show's last gasp!

[Mr. Sparkle]

By "sociopath" do you mean the Robert Loggia one? That one was pretty bad. 

Looking at the list of episodes, I think I like the 9th season a little more than the 8th season. Both have clunkers, but the 9th season has some slightly better episodes. The 8th also has more Nancy and the Schlong of Healing. I can skip the Carters completely, though. 

[Blergh]

14 minutes ago, Superclam said:

By "sociopath" do you mean the Robert Loggia one? That one was pretty bad. 

Looking at the list of episodes, I think I like the 9th season a little more than the 8th season. Both have clunkers, but the 9th season has some slightly better episodes. The 8th also has more Nancy and the Schlong of Healing. I can skip the Carters completely, though. 

I don't claim to be speaking for @debraran but I think it's likely she considers Nancy (who tried to deliberately have another girl killed) to have been a sociopath. Although, I would agree with you that Robert Loggia's character (who crippled his wife after attempting to murder her and their daughter then held Laura and Jenny hostage deluding himself that THEY were his wife and daughter) was a sociopath, at least he was a one-shot (figuratively not literally) unlike Nancy!

FWIW, while I agreed with ML that the rags unfairly ragged upon him and, especially, his family. I have to say that ML himself was more unfair to his family by the 2nd Mrs. Landon  (who'd not chosen to be famous) by putting them through the whole adulterous bond deal . Moreover, ML  didn't seem to get that, having consistently opted to depict literally larger-than-life righteous heroes from Bonanza onward instead of cheaters, drunkards and/or bums, he somewhat handed the rags extra ammo to use against him when it was found out that he'd fallen off the fidelity wagon. In retrospect, it's somewhat amazing that they somehow continued to preserve the illusion that ML as every bit as sober as Pa Ingalls and it would only be long after his death via cast members' bios that his actual alcoholism would be revealed (and it seemed a virtual onset open secret if not in Hollywood itself) .

[Egg McMuffin]

Every show has a natural lifespan. The great thing about early LHOTP is the cast of characters had a little something for the entire family: you had the relationship between Charles and Caroline  and Charles and Isaiah for the adults; Laura, Mary, Nellie, and Willie for the kids; comic relief in the form of Nels and Harriet; and sturdy support from Doc Baker, Rev Alden, and Miss Beadle. The whole thing felt organic. And the cast had great chemistry.

Later on, when cast members grew up and/or left, they started bringing in all those clones. It started with Jon and Alice Garvey, a big step down from the Edwards clan. But it soon got worse with Nancy, Cassandra, Miss Plum, Jenny, the Carters, etc. It didn’t feel organic at all; they just plugged similar characters into the holes left by others and hoped the chemistry would be the same. It wasn’t.

Landon really amped up the melodrama in these later years, too. Early LHOTP had its share, but because it was used relatively sparingly, and it was more impactful. Later, the tragedies were just constant: Albert burning down the blind school and killing Mary’s baby and Alice Garvey; Sylvia getting raped and climbing up a Ladder of Doom; James getting shot and Charles willing a miracle; Jenny almost drowning (twice, I think); Almanzo suffering a stroke; a tornado destroying the house; Rose getting kidnapped; etc. The more tragedies that happened, the less impactful they were. It was kind of like the later years of “Melrose Place,” where they kept trying to top the genuinely fun twist of Kimberly coming back from the dead. They were never able to.

[debraran]

My son is a school psychologist and you can't in reality say that word before a certain age but you can say a child has tendencies to be a sociopath. Nancy tried to kill a human and would have had fake tears about that. She was scary. Nels did say she killed a rabbit by neglect.  It's scary for my son who has to teach them to get by in life, which in a sense is teaching them to fool other people because we can't lock them up at 10.

It was just a show but to make a family show so dark, I don't get it. It was much worse than the rape which he did for ratings too.

Common signs of sociopathic traits in children include consistent:

Lack of remorse

Impulsivity

Manipulating others

Violence or aggression

Frequent lying

Cruelty toward animals

lack guilt, or not learn from their mistakes

blame others for problems in their lives

Stealing

Edited June 17, 2023 by debraran

[BusterHymen]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:55 AM, debraran said:

Yes, to say I blew up the town because ratings kept falling was a big "duh" . Of course they did. The bright idea of a orangutan in Walnut Grove, a sociopath, the Carter's squeezing into the Ingall's home with all their stuff wasn't a pull for fans? You pulled your family to work in the "big, bad city" and the only way the fans saw a glimpse of the old show, was Albert puking for an hour and then better, but at least you got to see them home.

So many things he didn't want, Alison was written off and given a bad wig, (really bad) and he could have done something with her and Percival and Willie. Willie and Rachel could have moved into the LHOP cabin, that would have been sweet, he gets the WHOLE house. ; ) Mike just didn't want to do it anymore and from the acting, neither did the ones left. He had a good core but let the stories get stale and dry and brought in way to many kids and extras thinking they would help. They don't, the fans liked the Ingall's and he mistakenly thought any cute kid will do. He reused scripts, how many bad newspapers can we have? (I realize the tabloids killed him, but that was a consequence of his behavior being a star)

We will always have the first 5 seasons but I really hate how he ended it. Maybe just having it end with them moving and leaving the cabin empty for visits or having doc or someone there buy it, would have been better. He hated movies done later about the show but still would have left it open. He could have taken down the set if he didn't want anyone using it. So silly.

Yup, kind of ironic really...seems like the show, producers, Michael Landon, etc. were always anxious to kill and get rid off characters, but yet Charles Ingalls never met an orphan he didn't like! 

[Blergh]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:28 PM, BusterHymen said:

Yup, kind of ironic really...seems like the show, producers, Michael Landon, etc. were always anxious to kill and get rid off characters, but yet Charles Ingalls never met an orphan he didn't like! 

Are you sure about that? Why would he have had them live in that sardine-can crackerbox that was already packed with his own progeny if he had liked them- especially since it didn't even to have a chamber pot on the premises?

I wouldn't be surprised if Albert didn't wish he'd stuck to shining shoes and stealing coins on the Winoka streets nor that James and Cassandra may have wished they'd just taken their chances with the strict Amish [?] couple and their framing son instead of winding up  in such cramped quarters - both in Walnut Grove and on those mean Burr Oak, Iowa big city streets!

Edited June 23, 2023 by Blergh

[BusterHymen]

13 hours ago, Blergh said:

Are you sure about that? Why would he have had them live in that sardine-can crackerbox that was already packed with his own progeny if he had liked them- especially since it didn't even to have a chamber pot on the premises?

I wouldn't be surprised if Albert didn't wish he'd stick to shining shoes and stealing coins on the Winoka streets nor that James and Cassandra may have wished they'd just taken their chances with the strict Amish [?] couple and their framing son instead of winding up  in such cramped quarters - both in Walnut Grove and on those mean Burr Oak, Iowa big city streets!

No doubt about it, Blergh....Common sense (which ain't so common with LHOTP) would tell us that Charles Ingalls should have been more fiscally and socially responsible when taking in orphaned children! Which leads me to another point...we all know the narrative of the poor farmers of Walnut Grove, right? but especially with the Ingalls family...One has to wonder if Charles had any vices like gambling, drinking, piss poor investments, soliciting prostitutes, etc. that we the audience weren't aware of??!! How is it someone like him who was multi-talented and very hardworking (farmer, craftsman, carpenter, insert whatever) but yet never had a dime to his name or two pennies to rub together??!! LOL!

[Zella]

He was unlucky, guys! The weather and Harriet were always out to get him and destroy his crops and deny him cash on the barrel! 

[Zella]

On a more serious note, I know the show was never going to show Charles with tons of flaws, but I do think that the real Charles's financial insecurity was often the product of his own bad decisions, specifically his perpetual urge to move. I know a lot of people who are like that in real life. They can be very talented and bright and quite likable, but they're constantly dissatisfied and moving and quitting jobs. And it's always for the most petty reasons. Sometimes bad luck just happens, but if your response to any hardship is just to quit and move, you don't leave your problems behind. They just follow you. 

And all this is not to say that a fresh start isn't the right call sometimes or that a strategic realization your energy would best be used elsewhere isn't the right one either sometimes or that some people really do just seem to have bad luck even when their decisions are solid. But when it's your default to throw your hands up and escape anytime you encounter issues, that's not a great way to adult, and it's not surprising when that person has a shaky financial situation as a result.  

Edited June 20, 2023 by Zella

[Mr. Sparkle]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

He was unlucky, guys! The weather and Harriet were always out to get him and destroy his crops and deny him cash on the barrel! 

Plus the quite baffling number of fractured ribs. 

[debraran]

I always wondered since they killed or grew their food mostly and didn't have electricity or gas to worry about, didn't buy his kids toys really or books, why he had to be shown always without any money in the bank or jar on the counter. Edwards and Garvey worked with him and did okay with a larger home (Garvey) and child and wife. He worked at the mill and sold crops and did odd jobs for things. When Mary got sick, he went to work, always dangerous work and made money but just a train or buggy ride was a big thing. He gave his bonus which was nice to the guys family who got blown up, but he still made a lot more than at the mill that season. I guess it varied show to show but I never felt others suffered the same way....especially the way most ate at Nellies, lol. I don't eat out that much. ; )

Even all the work and sweat and gossip he did for that varnish/woodwork for Mariette Hartley, (maybe worth it) those dumb dishes, a really nice thing, were never shown again, because the "poor" Ingall's couldn't have something that wasn't tin or mismatched even when you worked hard for it. (sorry, I put that to bed a long time ago, but it always bothered me, I don't know why)😛

[Blergh]

Maybe Mariette Hartley's dishes got sold off to pay off some of the Ingallses' debts including all the stuff they bought when pinning everything on a kook uncle's inheritance.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Blergh

[jird]

21 hours ago, Blergh said:

Maybe Mariette Hartley's dishes got sold off to pay off some of the Ingallses' debts including all the stuff they bought when pinning everything on a kook uncle's inheritance.

Thedishes (that Laura said they used every day) might be in the dungeon outside of town with all the characters that were their best friends for one episode.

[debraran]

i'm off today and saw a later LHOP (when Willie fails a test for college) I love how Jon finally got something meaty in his acting on the show and was so proud of how he told his mother what he was going to do. Nel's talk with him was very sweet too and although he went to college, it wasn't needed for Willie to have a living. Of course Harriet was thinking he'd meet a woman of "breeding" and she'd have rich inlaws and everything would be wonderful but of course, he probably would live in another town (what could he do in Walnut Grove?) she'd hardly ever see 2 sets of grandkids or children and of course this was before they knew St Mike would blow up the town. lol

Jon has the most beautful blue eyes, and turned out quite handsome back then. I wonder why no one ever interviewed or asked the actress who played Rachel what she thought of him or if he ever kept in touch. He did with some of the cast or had "friends of friends".

This was one of the last episodes I liked and glad it was on and not so many of the others. Not many without Laura etc in it mostly.

Edited June 28, 2023 by debraran

[Snow Apple]

That was one of the few episodes I like in the later seasons.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Hallmark Channel is showing a marathon today and tomorrow. Most of seasons 3 & 4. There goes my chance of getting anything done this weekend! 

[Mr. Sparkle]

The end of "Carrie Fall in the Well" always gets me in the feels! 

[Blergh]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:43 AM, debraran said:

i'm off today and saw a later LHOP (when Willie fails a test for college) I love how Jon finally got something meaty in his acting on the show and was so proud of how he told his mother what he was going to do. Nel's talk with him was very sweet too and although he went to college, it wasn't needed for Willie to have a living. Of course Harriet was thinking he'd meet a woman of "breeding" and she'd have rich inlaws and everything would be wonderful but of course, he probably would live in another town (what could he do in Walnut Grove?) she'd hardly ever see 2 sets of grandkids or children and of course this was before they knew St Mike would blow up the town. lol

Jon has the most beautful blue eyes, and turned out quite handsome back then. I wonder why no one ever interviewed or asked the actress who played Rachel what she thought of him or if he ever kept in touch. He did with some of the cast or had "friends of friends".

This was one of the last episodes I liked and glad it was on and not so many of the others. Not many without Laura etc in it mostly.

Mr. Gilbert definitely had better acting chops by the end than he was given credit for. I suppose either he himself decided and/or was told that there could only be ONE Gilbert sib in 'the biz' and bowed out of acting as soon as the LHOTP run was done shortly before he parted ways with/ was thrown out of the Gilbert family.

Regardless, I  agree with you that none of his adult or fellow minor performers seemed to attempt to keep in contact with him after . .the parting of ways- to say nothing of ML himself.

Does anyone know if Mr. Gilbert attended ML's funeral a few years later ? None of the accounts of it within the bios mention his presence. ..or absence!

I don't pretend to offer any proof but I think it's possible that since he was adopted that he may have found out his original birth name. .and possibly have been using THAT as his legal name to maintain his low profile all these decades.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Blergh

[debraran]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

Mr. Gilbert definitely had better acting chops by the end than he was given credit for. I suppose either he himself decided and/or was told that there could only be ONE Gilbert sib in 'the biz' and bowed out of acting as soon as the LHOTP run was done shortly before he parted ways with/ was thrown out of the Gilbert family.

Regardless, I  agree with you that none of his adult or fellow minor performers seemed to attempt to keep in contact with him after . .the parting of ways- to say nothing of ML himself.

Does anyone know if Mr. Gilbert attended ML's funeral a few years later ? None of the accounts of it within the bios mention his presence. ..or absence!

I don't pretend to offer any proof but I think it's possible that since he was adopted that he may have found out his original birth name. .and possibly have been using THAT as his legal name to maintain his low profile all these decades.

I don't think he did or it would have been talked about, sent somerthing, IDK? I know "Nels" spoke well of him, said he was the smartest kid on the set, very well mannered and ignored by his mom, Melissa was the star. From an interview "  Richard Bull said he was very close to Jonathan and his wedding on the show was emotional to him, seeing him grow up in many ways...also made mention of how smart he was, "terribly bright". Katherine said, "Darling boy, started at 6, ended at 15, finished high school, took 9 years of money and took off. He never thought of himself as an actor, MG got all the attention. She went on he was a normal boy, played with the kids, did as he was told and he made Willie his own.

Alison commented on his intelligence (too bad if he didn't go to college)and thought he was brighter than anyone on the set. Then she said, I adored him, foster mom ignored him (how sad)She felt that was one of the reasons he left. 

I had a thousand things go through my mind years ago, abuse of some kind had him bolt, mental illness, arrest, found his bio parents, things only inner circle know but it's sad he spent his childhood and teens with a family, and no one is close enough to be in touch. Sara, Melissa, his parents obviously not, but it was a big secret it seems. Melissa would just admit she saw him twice I think since he left and had the police look for him initially. They make up things about him which is insulting. I don't blame the Internet, tabloids and "Where are they now?" will lie to fill in blanks, but people closer to him? No. It's wrong to joke about plays, wall street, being a monk. Just say you don't know.  A guy told me no pics online are of him or any bio info true, he knew someone on the set. I can see that but it's funny how the internet makes it so.

Melissa Sue knew someone who knew him, one the "Carrie twins" for a bit, Richard Bull but then he dropped off. I wondered about Katherine, but she didn't like to interview much. I just hope he is well and taking care of himself. Believe me with all the things they have today to trace someone, even SS numbers, I can't imagine unless he left the country, they couldn't find him but at this point, doesn't seem like anyone does or they know things and leave it be.

Edited July 2, 2023 by debraran

[Lisa418722]

While I admit I'm curious as to what happened behind the scenes (but I also admit it's none of our business) I just hope Jonathan is living his best life, and he is happy being away from being known as Melissa's brother and he's finally his own person.  

[debraran]

I'm off today and saw beginning of The Racoon. Not a fav but I forgot about the doll. Now I had misgivings about a prairie girl not knowing what poison ivy was when Laura thought she had a bad disease, in another episode but what prairie girl puts a china doll on a branch precariously balancing and then plays ball 2 feet away? I think on the ground, she'd be safer. I realize plot device but have it fall out of bed or something, it just seemed silly. Laura was never that attached to dolls on the TV show either.

The other thing was the cheapest doll head was 59 cents and Pa said no, the winter money is never enough....of course. But don't they get more than that for selling eggs at times or doing chores. Nothing they can do for 50cents? Well 40, Mary had 11 cents. ; ) Working for Nel's Mary got over a 1.00 once to pay for book.  I know again, it's a plot device but the heavy emphasis on Laura loving a doll and not having 50 cents over some time, was kind of sad. They never had any money I guess. How did they afford the whole doll I wonder? I realize it's frivolous and I would make sure she knew how to take care of it in future but just another time of "we never have any money". I really think they didn't budget all the crop/mill money well. ; ) And of course the things Jasper broke probably added up the same. Food on floor, broken bowls, etc.

I also think my dislike of raccoons, always being a little afraid of them, entered into my dislike and they are wild, not pets really.  It was enough to see the beginning and miss the rabies and angst at the end.
 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by debraran

[kathyk24]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:12 AM, Egg McMuffin said:

Every show has a natural lifespan. The great thing about early LHOTP is the cast of characters had a little something for the entire family: you had the relationship between Charles and Caroline  and Charles and Isaiah for the adults; Laura, Mary, Nellie, and Willie for the kids; comic relief in the form of Nels and Harriet; and sturdy support from Doc Baker, Rev Alden, and Miss Beadle. The whole thing felt organic. And the cast had great chemistry.

Later on, when cast members grew up and/or left, they started bringing in all those clones. It started with Jon and Alice Garvey, a big step down from the Edwards clan. But it soon got worse with Nancy, Cassandra, Miss Plum, Jenny, the Carters, etc. It didn’t feel organic at all; they just plugged similar characters into the holes left by others and hoped the chemistry would be the same. It wasn’t.

Landon really amped up the melodrama in these later years, too. Early LHOTP had its share, but because it was used relatively sparingly, and it was more impactful. Later, the tragedies were just constant: Albert burning down the blind school and killing Mary’s baby and Alice Garvey; Sylvia getting raped and climbing up a Ladder of Doom; James getting shot and Charles willing a miracle; Jenny almost drowning (twice, I think); Almanzo suffering a stroke; a tornado destroying the house; Rose getting kidnapped; etc. The more tragedies that happened, the less impactful they were. It was kind of like the later years of “Melrose Place,” where they kept trying to top the genuinely fun twist of Kimberly coming back from the dead. They were never able to.

The characters from the early years of Little House were actually in Laura's books. Once the show added Albert that changed. Most of the things that happened on the show never happened to the Ingalls family. Almanzo did suffer a stroke making it difficult for the Wilders to succeed. 

[debraran]

16 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

The characters from the early years of Little House were actually in Laura's books. Once the show added Albert that changed. Most of the things that happened on the show never happened to the Ingalls family. Almanzo did suffer a stroke making it difficult for the Wilders to succeed. 

That's true but Mike wanted something different than the wholesome show he said people wanted later. The stroke was real and losing baby Charles but that's about it. Having Mary marry when both blind and lose 2 babies, one tragically. Fires, how many attempted suicides by adults and children, John Jr had to die, Mrs Garvey, he didn't want Alison to stay but brought in a crazy child to replace her. I know not all the fans loved Albrert, but some for sure, but then he does James and Cassandra?  He was desperate but he never saw the ratings dropped because he messed with the formula. Walton's had dark shows but the core stayed the same.

Melissa Sue saw it, I think in part that is why she wanted to leave. They would never be happy, just one tragedy after another.  Hard times doesn't always have to be death and rape

I love the struggles in the beginning, the shows just about school or a friend or neighbor or illness but then things got a bit too crazy. But I'll always smile watching them get their stockings in the movie and their peppermint sticks and Charles being the richest man in Walnut Grove in one way even if after 20 years, they never got it in money. I just wish he ended it earlier and had different plots but it's easier to see it later.

Edited July 5, 2023 by debraran

[Blergh]

Yeah, it got bogus how, the instant Laura lost those pigtails, she suddenly became a Gibson Girl fashion plate despite having no means to have purchased that wardrobe much less taken any time in sewing it. I can't think of a single time Laura was shown so much as holding a skein of yarn for her Ma- much less actually sewing anything even in the earliest episodes. Yet, she's supposed to go through the plights of being a struggling teaching student, a storm-ravaged farm wife, etc. but never looks less than runway-ready!

Edited July 7, 2023 by Blergh

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

Yeah, it got bogus how, the instant Laura lost those pigtails, she suddenly became a Gibson Girl fashion plate despite having no means to have purchased that wardrobe much less taken any time in sewing it. I can't think of a single time Laura was shown so much as holding a skein of yarn for her Ma- much less actually sewing anything even in the earliest episodes. Yet, she's supposed to go through the plights of being a struggling teaching student, a storm-ravaged farm wife, etc. but never looks less than runway-ready!

Yes, she never seemed as "motherly" but I think that was true and didn't seem at least on the show, to want to cook etc. Nothing wrong with wanting to work but she always had more than her Ma with clothes, home, etc.

Of course, her Ma kept getting children dropped off and did the best she could. : )