Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, Superclam said:

I'm reading the books for the first time, and I'm up to "The Long Winter." It's very interesting that it's now Laura and Carrie as a team, rather than Laura and Mary. It's also interesting that Carrie is written like a real person, as opposed to the 10 year old toddler we see on the show. 

I'm reading the books for the first time too! (Just wrapped up Little Town on the Prairie.) And that stood out to me too.

[alexa]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

You mean, you didn't melt with James' "Gee, Mr. Ingalls? Geeee."? 

And I couldn't stand bug-eyed Cassandra and her "Mistah Ingahs Mistah Ingahs!" either. WTAF when Carrie was right there. And if the Greenbush twins weren't up to the challenge really expanding Carrie needed (newsflash - they weren't), they could have recast. It always grated that Carrie, who was much closer to Laura in age than show would have you believe (3 years in fact) was practically a piece of furniture in the show. See also, perennially stuck in her highchair even when she was four years old Grace.

It always bothered me too about Carrie.  Clearly they weren’t good actors so they tried to hide her, but she was a major character of the family and recasting would have made sense to allow her to actually speak once in a while.  

[debraran]

8 hours ago, alexa said:

It always bothered me too about Carrie.  Clearly they weren’t good actors so they tried to hide her, but she was a major character of the family and recasting would have made sense to allow her to actually speak once in a while.  

Both girls complained that they were made "young" on purpose, he liked all of them young but they also didn't have the ability Melissa had etc. I don't understand why Michael gave them that awful show, no amount of complaining about "Alyssa" could explain why someone WROTE it. He seemed to have it out for them or her family. He knew being 90min it would get lost like the other 90 minute shows. I also don't understand why she had to sit there at school when older and in braids and not say one word. ONE. She couldn't answer a question from the teacher? She couldn't say 3 words? At the table, she couldn't say how good the stew was? Was she paid by the word?  She said Mike was not always nice, very strict but when discussing that Godsister show, said he was so pleased every take took once, he didn't have to re-shoot. I always thought that was odd, it ws like he didn't care. It's done with now but I try not to pick on them because it was choices made early on. I just feel anyone can say a few lines without too much trouble. As she said  "In 2001, Rachel told People magazine, "Michael never made it fun for us. I was always petrified I was going to make a mistake."

Edited January 12, 2021 by debraran

[CountryGirl]

I do remember seeing Melissa's recent interview on CBS Sunday Morning last month where she talked about one experience with ML that wasn't as pleasant.

“Only one time did I not know my lines,” she said. “And it only happened once. And I kept forgetting and I kept forgetting. And Michael finally cut and he said, ‘You don’t know your lines, do you?’ And I just started crying. So, he cleared the set. He made everybody go away.”

“Just burst into tears,” Gilbert continued, “’cause I was busted. And he said, ‘Just calm down. We’re gonna do this. You’re gonna learn your lines.’ And we did it and we did it and we did it. And I finally got it. And I was ready. And I said, ‘Thank you so much.’ And I gave him a hug. And he said, ‘You’re so welcome.’ And then he got down right in front of me and he said, ‘And that is never happening again, is it?'”

It never did happen again.

There was something in her voice that made me think when he got down in front of her, it was very intense and scary, even if it was just "words," especially for a young girl. 

[jird]

39 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I do remember seeing Melissa's recent interview on CBS Sunday Morning last month where she talked about one experience with ML that wasn't as pleasant.

“Only one time did I not know my lines,” she said. “And it only happened once. And I kept forgetting and I kept forgetting. And Michael finally cut and he said, ‘You don’t know your lines, do you?’ And I just started crying. So, he cleared the set. He made everybody go away.”

“Just burst into tears,” Gilbert continued, “’cause I was busted. And he said, ‘Just calm down. We’re gonna do this. You’re gonna learn your lines.’ And we did it and we did it and we did it. And I finally got it. And I was ready. And I said, ‘Thank you so much.’ And I gave him a hug. And he said, ‘You’re so welcome.’ And then he got down right in front of me and he said, ‘And that is never happening again, is it?'”

It never did happen again.

There was something in her voice that made me think when he got down in front of her, it was very intense and scary, even if it was just "words," especially for a young girl. 

I remember hearing that from her in an interview some years ago and thinking exactly the same thing - it was clearly really scary and intimidating for her, especially for a young child that had so many lines in each show.

13 hours ago, Superclam said:

I'm reading the books for the first time, and I'm up to "The Long Winter." It's very interesting that it's now Laura and Carrie as a team, rather than Laura and Mary. It's also interesting that Carrie is written like a real person, as opposed to the 10 year old toddler we see on the show. 

Yes! The show missed such an opportunity to have Laura and Carrie be friends, especially after Mary left town. Instead they just kept Carrie mute and Laura spending all her time running around with random boys.

[Zella]

I'm more familiar with Michael Landon's behavior on the Bonanza set because I've watched way more Bonanza, but I always got the impression that, while he could be charming, he could also be quite difficult. So, I'm not really surprised.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I'm more familiar with Michael Landon's behavior on the Bonanza set because I've watched way more Bonanza, but I always got the impression that, while he could be charming, he could also be quite difficult. So, I'm not really surprised.

He had that reputation.  He could be fun but if you didn’t like his fun, his practical jokes, tough luck. The drinking etc might have added to it at times .  Mrs Garvey said she asked to change a scene once and he let her but others warned not to do that twice.  ( she insisted it was better!) 😉. I wish she could have changed a few more. 
I would have cried too if Melissa. I felt bad for Carrie twins too 

 

[Zella]

12 minutes ago, debraran said:

He had that reputation.  He could be fun but if you didn’t like his fun, his practical jokes, tough luck. The drinking etc might have added to it at times .  Mrs Garvey said she asked to change a scene once and he let her but others warned not to do that twice.  ( she insisted it was better!) 😉. I wish she could have changed a few more. 
I would have cried too if Melissa. I felt bad for Carrie twins too 

 

I'm pretty sure he also lied about Pernell Roberts (who was no picnic to deal with either 😄 ) . He used to claim in interviews that Pernell wouldn't speak to him on the set of Bonanza. But there's a lot of evidence that suggests that wasn't actually true. Apparently Michael got butthurt when Pernell said he didn't challenge himself as an actor but should and held a grudge about it for years. I think Michael then rewrote history and had Pernell snubbing him from the beginning, purely out of spite, and he knew people would believe it since Pernell also had a reputation as difficult.

I read an interview with Pernell, who was very blunt and never apologized for all the things he'd said about Bonanza, but he emphatically apologized for his comments about Michael being misconstrued, and he even said something along the lines of him repeatedly trying to apologize to Michael about it. 

I've also read that Michael Landon increasingly became a real diva on the Bonanza set, especially after he started writing and directing episodes. He would hold up production to argue about every detail. The showrunner conceded that Michael was a talented writer and director, but that seemed to make his behavior worse as he realized it.

Incidentally, the first episode he wrote of Bonanza is pretty bad and shows some of his worst instincts as a storyteller, IMO. Little Joe is basically Rambo and is the only one who gets to do anything interesting. The rest of the Cartwrights look ready to fall asleep through the whole episode though their lives are in danger. 😄 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Zella

[BigBingerBro]

It seems to me that they left Carrie mute because the twins were pretty mediocre actors.  It's too bad because I agree that more Laura/Carrie as friends episodes would have been a nice change.  Did both twins continue working on the show as they got older or was one of them phased out??  I read Alison and Laura's books and they said that the Greenbush mom was loud, brash and a typical stage mom.  Too bad she didn't send them to more or better acting classes.

Edited January 12, 2021 by BigBingerBro

[Zella]

Just now, BigBingerBro said:

It seems to me that they left Carrie mute because the twins were pretty mediocre actors.  It's too bad because I agree that more Laura/Carrie as friends episodes would have been a nice change.  Did both twins continue working on the show as they got older or was one of them phased out??  I read Alison and Laura's books and they said that the Greenbush mom was loud, brash and a typical stage mom.  Too bad she didn't send them to more or better acting classes.

I suspect you're right. I didn't mind Carrie when she was little, but I'm in season 5 now, and the girls have trouble saying basic lines. And I don't just mean because they're little kids and can't enunciate their words. I know it's not their fault because they were small children, but if I'd been saddled with them on set, I wouldn't have been highlighting them in scenes either. 

[jason88cubs]

I always wished there was  abit more episodes regarding the Doc. I guess they couldnt do too much for his character though but I always liked him alot

[jason88cubs]

Michael Landon was always good at getting you sucked in with the emotional tearjerker moments

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, jason88cubs said:

Michael Landon was always good at getting you sucked in with the emotional tearjerker moments

And if he was featured front and center, all the better.

 

On 1/7/2021 at 11:34 AM, BigBingerBro said:

It certainly was!

Seeing Mary and Laura's crocheted doilies, ahem, winter hats, made me think of this:

[debraran]

7 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I always wished there was  abit more episodes regarding the Doc. I guess they couldnt do too much for his character though but I always liked him alot

I liked him too and he always got the doc trying to replace him or the "vet" jokes and only one young woman who almost married him. I could never believe an educated, average looking, very kind doctor could never find a date. With all the widows and ladies around, he was a good catch!The show was on for 10 years or so and one girlfriend.  Sad.

Edited January 14, 2021 by debraran

[jird]

14 hours ago, debraran said:

I liked him too and he always got the doc trying to replace him or the "vet" jokes and only one young woman who almost married him. I could never believe an educated, average looking, very kind doctor could never find a date. With all the widows and ladies around, he was a good catch!The show was on for 10 years or so and one girlfriend.  Sad.

Yes! He and Grace clearly got along and had similar interests, and it always seemed crazy to me that she just sat around alone until the irresistible smelly old Mr. Edwards showed up to sweep her off her feet.

[jason88cubs]

"Harriet's Happenings " is a good episode that gets some laughs

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

"Harriet's Happenings " is a good episode that gets some laughs

I watched that one last night, and it is pretty funny!

[jason88cubs]

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

I watched that one last night, and it is pretty funny!

I love Harriet so much!

[Zella]

38 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

I love Harriet so much!

She's a national treasure in her own horrid way! 

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

She's a national treasure in her own horrid way! 

Me too and smart. She was controlling but I liked (even if rude at times) she stuck up for herself or changed dumb lines to the chagrin of Michael or other writers. An article quoting Alison in her book, The problem was, MacGregor’s love of changing the script and director’s cues wasn’t limited to her role. She worked on everyone else as well. Some of the actors such as Dean Butler who played Almanzo Wilder and Karen Grassle who portrayed Caroline Ingalls on the series sought out her advice. Sometimes if she didn’t care for the lines, she simply changed them,” Alison wrote. “This drove Michael [Landon] and [show producer] Bill Claxton nearly insane, but she would not be swayed.” I had to laugh, I could see that so clearly.

I know someone else told Michael lighting and delivery could be better and he agreed but she knew not to do it again. It was in an interview with either Mrs Garvey or Miss Beadle (think Garvey because of blind school episode)

Edited January 16, 2021 by debraran

[Mr. Sparkle]

15 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I love Harriet so much!

Every show needs a villain, and she's a good one. And legit funny a lot of the time! 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Superclam

[jason88cubs]

There's a few episodes where Laura would sneak out at night and that always surprised me.

 

Not safe at all but also the fact she never got caught

[Zella]

Can someone please explain the behind-the-scenes reasoning about the move to Winoka? I remember reading something about it, but it was before I'd seen the episodes, so it didn't stick. 

The Winoka episodes were weird, but they didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the return to Walnut Grove that just hand-waved away all the serious reasons why they left. 

Was the show planning a permanent move to Winoka before audience backlash caused it to be cancelled or was it always envisioned as a temporary stay? 

 

[BigBingerBro]

I want to say there was some sort of issue with being able to film in Simi Valley.  If I have time tomorrow I will check my books are see if I can find the behind the scenes reason for them filming at the studio aka Winoka.

[Zella]

Just now, BigBingerBro said:

I want to say there was some sort of issue with being able to film in Simi Valley.  If I have time tomorrow I will check my books are see if I can find the behind the scenes reason for them filming at the studio aka Winoka.

Thank you--that makes sense! 

[debraran]

14 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

There's a few episodes where Laura would sneak out at night and that always surprised me.

 

Not safe at all but also the fact she never got caught

Or that after scaring her parents to death with running away and having Pa and Edwards look for her for days, she was going to do it AGAIN with the friend with leukemia! Just hop a train to the ocean and hope we get back without going to detention hall. Sentiment aside, that was a dumb thing to do and Charles ended up helping for Highway to Heaven type of ending but if she did just leave, you know, she'd be okay. Mary would get grounded for a year. ; )

[jason88cubs]

13 hours ago, Zella said:

Can someone please explain the behind-the-scenes reasoning about the move to Winoka? I remember reading something about it, but it was before I'd seen the episodes, so it didn't stick. 

The Winoka episodes were weird, but they didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the return to Walnut Grove that just hand-waved away all the serious reasons why they left. 

Was the show planning a permanent move to Winoka before audience backlash caused it to be cancelled or was it always envisioned as a temporary stay? 

 

i've looked in the past. can never find anything

[alexa]

Speaking of sets, this site has a cool video showing the ranch now versus with the set buildings.  
https://dustyoldthing.com/little-house-on-the-prairie-set-then-and-now/

One more link...some facts about the show, and a cute video at the end of Melissa singing and dancing.  I guess she was preparing early for dancing with the stars...lol

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/70752/17-pioneering-facts-about-little-house-prairie

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by alexa

[VCRTracking]

Whoa Dean actually looks like a 19th century farmer now!

 

[die Frau]

I just saw the episode about Graham and his father. I'm not sure I'd ever seen it in its entirety. Otherwise, I think I would have remembered Mr. Stewart hallucinating a bat... negatively.

I thought I remembered Charles confronting Mr. Stewart and beating him up in a "pick on someone your own size" manner. Did he do that to somebody else in a similar situation in another episode or was that my hallucination?

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by die Frau
To clarify something

[jason88cubs]

Random question: Did we ever see Doc Baker's house? or did he live in his office? I dont recall seeing his office being attached to his possible house

[debraran]

Just now, jason88cubs said:

Random question: Did we ever see Doc Baker's house? or did he live in his office? I dont recall seeing his office being attached to his possible house

I think he slept upstairs but used downstairs as office and room to see patients. Maybe when he was making the ring for Harriet's niece he was in bedroom, he was getting something out of a box, his dad's chain I think.

[jason88cubs]

5 minutes ago, debraran said:

I think he slept upstairs but used downstairs as office and room to see patients. Maybe when he was making the ring for Harriet's niece he was in bedroom, he was getting something out of a box, his dad's chain I think.

did his office have an upstairs though? i know the post office did

4 hours ago, die Frau said:

I just saw the episode about Graham and his father. I'm not sure I'd ever seen it in its entirety. Otherwise, I think I would have remembered Mr. Stewart hallucinating a bat... negatively.

I thought I remembered Charles confronting Mr. Stewart and beating him up in a "pick on someone your own size" manner. Did he do that to somebody else in a similar situation in another episode or was that my hallucination?

 

well in Bully Boys he attacked them, for them grabbing his wife. Charles got ina  few fights so I could see that happening

[debraran]

I I

@jason88cubsIn his bio it says the same on wiki  His office is located in the same building as the post office; he rarely worked with help except on a few occasions.

Edited January 19, 2021 by debraran

[jason88cubs]

13 minutes ago, debraran said:

I I

I thought he lived above but maybe not.

wait is his office on the side of the post office?

[debraran]

17 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Whoa Dean actually looks like a 19th century farmer now!

 

I like how Pam (Mrs Carter) gushed over Dean, lol. I'm like Woah! Good thing on Zoom. lol  I liked that Melissa brought up her brother, always left out in stories out of maybe a kindness to not have to answer questions. Alison stayed quiet but at least she made him "real" and funny, and no untrue stories about what he is doing. I sometimes wonder as he slowly broke off with people (Nel's a friend of a Melissa Sue)if they would know if he was alive.  That's sad. I noticed because the commentator didn't followup he knew not too.

Enjoyed the honesty and the story of the pond/wheelchair episode which brought out how really gross it was! 🤑

Edited January 19, 2021 by debraran

[alexa]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I like how Pam (Mrs Carter) gushed over Dean, lol. I'm like Woah! Good thing on Zoom. lol  I liked that Melissa brought up her brother, always left out in stories out of maybe a kindness to not have to answer questions. Alison stayed quiet but at least she made him "real" and funny, and no untrue stories about what he is doing. I sometimes wonder as he slowly broke off with people (Nel's a friend of a Melissa Sue)if they would know if he was alive.  That's sad. I noticed because the commentator didn't followup he knew not too.

Enjoyed the honesty and the story of the pond/wheelchair episode which brought out how really gross it was! 🤑

Is there a story behind this?  I haven't heard much about him but wondering if there is a reason they are quiet about him?

I enjoyed the video as well...I had to look up to see who a couple people were, but it was nice to hear all they had to say.  And I love Dean Butler...he has always seemed so nice, and he continues to look young for his age.  I love that he took on a passion for LIW projects in real life.

[debraran]

32 minutes ago, alexa said:

Is there a story behind this?  I haven't heard much about him but wondering if there is a reason they are quiet about him?

I enjoyed the video as well...I had to look up to see who a couple people were, but it was nice to hear all they had to say.  And I love Dean Butler...he has always seemed so nice, and he continues to look young for his age.  I love that he took on a passion for LIW projects in real life.

All I heard was he took his money and left after show. Melissa reported him missing back then but don’t know what came of it. I heard through Richard Bull interview he was ignored somewhat by mom but idk if that was part of it. Something was pretty bad to cut like that I would think.  Some cast had him keep in touch with letters or cards but not many. I can understand being under the radar but the stories and pics of him are never correct. If they were someone would find him. I just hope he’s well. 

[alexa]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

All I heard was he took his money and left after show. Melissa reported him missing back then but don’t know what came of it. I heard through Richard Bull interview he was ignored somewhat by mom but idk if that was part of it. Something was pretty bad to cut like that I would think.  Some cast had him keep in touch with letters or cards but not many. I can understand being under the radar but the stories and pics of him are never correct. If they were someone would find him. I just hope he’s well. 

It sounds like he just left the spotlight and became a rich stockbroker, 🙂  According to this google entry.  Interesting though, but maybe this story isn't correct either?  

https://biographypedia.org/where-is-jonathan-gilbert-today-wiki-bio-net-worth-married/

 

[debraran]

55 minutes ago, alexa said:

It sounds like he just left the spotlight and became a rich stockbroker, 🙂  According to this google entry.  Interesting though, but maybe this story isn't correct either?  

https://biographypedia.org/where-is-jonathan-gilbert-today-wiki-bio-net-worth-married/

No sadly all these have been debunked but I wonder how the “real” people feel seeing their pics. He might want to be unknown but most business people can be traced. They would make up things at fan gatherings, he’s a monk, he’s doing theatre, he’s in nyc.  

[alexa]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

2 hours ago, alexa said:

It sounds like he just left the spotlight and became a rich stockbroker, 🙂  According to this google entry.  Interesting though, but maybe this story isn't correct either?  

https://biographypedia.org/where-is-jonathan-gilbert-today-wiki-bio-net-worth-married/

No sadly all these have been debunked but I wonder how the “real” people feel seeing their pics. He might want to be unknown but most business people can be traced. They would make up things at fan gatherings, he’s a monk, he’s doing theatre, he’s in nyc.  

That is sad.  I had no idea!  

[Mr. Sparkle]

18 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

Random question: Did we ever see Doc Baker's house? or did he live in his office? I dont recall seeing his office being attached to his possible house

Now that I think of it, in the later season episode with Dr. LeDoux (sp?) he is seen peering out of an upstairs window, presumably his apartment. Was there an apartment building with rooms in the town? Did he share a bathroom with Miss Beadle?  

[jason88cubs]

5 minutes ago, Superclam said:

Now that I think of it, in the later season episode with Dr. LeDoux (sp?) he is seen peering out of an upstairs window, presumably his apartment. Was there an apartment building with rooms in the town? Did he share a bathroom with Miss Beadle?  

I think miss Beadle had her own place

[Zella]

Based on the size of the building, I wonder if he has his doctor office rooms on the ground floor as does the post office and then the living quarters for both and possibly any other boarders are above (but not together). Last night, I watched "Blind Man's Bluff" and he seems to have multiple rooms for the offices. 

[jason88cubs]

Just now, Zella said:

Based on the size of the building, I wonder if he has his doctor office rooms on the ground floor as does the post office and then the living quarters for both and possibly any other boarders are above (but not together). Last night, I watched "Blind Man's Bluff" and he seems to have multiple rooms for the offices. 

that would make sense.

I dont recall any epsiodes where they went on Doc Bakers house

[Mr. Sparkle]

32 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

I think miss Beadle had her own place

I think we saw it once or twice. My question is, where was it? Was it a rental? Who owned it? If she did, how did she afford a nice place in town when the Ingalls lived in a kid's clubhouse? 

In the episode where they come back from Winoka, Hanson is in some room upstairs. Was that above the Dr's office? Was it like an infirmary? Did Doc Baker live there too? 

These are all questions I have. The only people that we definitely know where they lived are the Olesons. 

 

[jason88cubs]

10 minutes ago, Superclam said:

I think we saw it once or twice. My question is, where was it? Was it a rental? Who owned it? If she did, how did she afford a nice place in town when the Ingalls lived in a kid's clubhouse? 

In the episode where they come back from Winoka, Hanson is in some room upstairs. Was that above the Dr's office? Was it like an infirmary? Did Doc Baker live there too? 

These are all questions I have. The only people that we definitely know where they lived are the Olesons. 

 

No idea if she rented or owned it and I have no idea where it was. i assume it was by the school. I know Charles walked over there in that episode where she was replaced by that male teacher. She also had a steady income at the school unlike the Ingalls. Not sure how long summer breaks were then?

 

I assume it was above the post office? Maybe Doc Baker was in room next door?

Edited January 19, 2021 by jason88cubs

[Zella]

From what I've read, school terms could be all over the place. The real Laura seemed to teach quite a few two or three-month terms during her career as a teacher, though that was in a far more rural South Dakota. In the books, she teaches a summer term that I think starts in late April. But from what I've read in general in farm communities, school was often held from around November to April, during the months when the kids weren't needed on farms. The rest of the year, school teachers were left to their own devices to either live on the income from their teaching or find other work in the mean time.

Miss Beadle never seems to have any other jobs, and their school year seems very regular, so maybe she got paid enough to not need it. 

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

Miss Beadle never seems to have any other jobs, and their school year seems very regular, so maybe she got paid enough to not need it. 

OTOH, I don't think we only saw the school days of the show.  It never seemed to be summer.  There were times when the boys (minus Willie) were out of school, but the girls were always there.  I don't know how a community who can't afford school books could afford to pay the teacher enough to live on for the whole year whilst only working half of it.  Maybe she had an inheritance and was better about keeping it quiet than Charles was.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

OTOH, I don't think we only saw the school days of the show.  It never seemed to be summer.  There were times when the boys (minus Willie) were out of school, but the girls were always there.  I don't know how a community who can't afford school books could afford to pay the teacher enough to live on for the whole year whilst only working half of it.  Maybe she had an inheritance and was better about keeping it quiet than Charles was.

That's true! Walnut Grove is a bizarre little town. I was just thinking the other day that Deadwood got a newspaper quicker in their history than Walnut Grove. 😂