Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Co-signed. At least we no longer have the ads about the couples having sex in a box after censoring a line about getting a chubby. I know some of the members don't think it's a big deal, but sometimes it does truly affect the viewing experience for the worse. "Carrier" is one that comes to mind as we've discussed here before. I believe I've mentioned here my theory that this is not a deliberate choice on the part of the networks airing the show, but simple laziness - the cable networks are using the broadcast syndication edits of the earlier season episodes which were censored so they could air in Omaha at 7pm without drawing too many complaints. Which in many ways is worse since they obviously have the uncensored versions that aired on TNT somebody at the networks or NBCUniversal should be able to make the effort to give us the real shows. I mean it's not like the series isn't making enough money for all involved to make the effort.

Carrier and Fools For Love come to mind as cases where the censorship directly affects viewers understanding of the plot - they censor “bareback” in Carrier which was what the defendant said and they censor “douche” in Fools for Love as used in the technical sense when ME Rodgers tells the detectives the killer used a douche on the victims. And the censorship always detracts from the viewing experience - either you are trying to figure out what was censored or in the case of racial epithets the episodes lose some of their power when the words are censored. And yes it’s just laziness, they are using the edited versions instead of the uncensored versions, and it’s obvious because only the earlier seasons are censored, there’s no censorship in episodes starting from around season 13 until the end. 

[Xeliou66]

I saw Driven tonight, and I have to say this episode kind of irritates me, I know my opinion isn’t politically correct or popular, but I don’t think the mother should’ve gotten the same sentence as the guy who actually fired the shots, she shouldn’t have gotten anywhere near the same sentence. Not saying she wasn’t somewhat responsible, she was, but let’s face it - the killer’s son and his friends started the whole thing by stealing the other kids ball, and the kids had the right to want their ball back, and I think the father who actually shot the kids did so in part because he was angry and didn’t like the white families moving into the neighborhood. And the mother was right that her kids had just as much right to use the playground as the black kids. While the mothers aggressive actions did escalate the situation, she didn’t fire the shots nor did her and her kids start the altercation. I found it ridiculous that the jury wanted them to get the same sentence, the actual shooter deserved a much more severe sentence. 

I still like the episode, I liked McCoy’s role and I liked his interactions with Van Buren, and the case was compelling, but I was frustrated by how they acted like the mother was just as culpable as the shooter. I know, probably not a popular opinion or PC, but that’s what I felt. 

[Ailianna]

She didn't just give them a ride though.  She actually ARMED them with BASEBALL BATS to go take back a basketball that was worth probably $15.  No one was entirely innocent here, except the little girl who died, and that was part of it.  But she definitely took it up several notches when she told them they had to GO BACK with WEAPONS to "defend" their "rights."  The dad who shot was sitting on the stoop seeing kids chasing his son with bats.  The race issues are real and were real, and definitely colored the entire issue on BOTH sides.  And both parents contributed to the death of the uninvolved little girl with their actions and attitudes.  TV Tropes has a good quick deconstruction of the episode.

And McCoy didn't treat them equally--he charged the shooter with murder and the mom with manslaughter--which is what each of them did, in my opinion.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Ailianna

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

She actually ARMED them with BASEBALL BATS to go take back a basketball

Yes, and, IRL, baseball bats are lethal when used as weapons. Sometimes baseball bats are murder weapons on crime shows, but more often the person hit with a baseball bat on TV is up walking around the next day with a non-swollen bruise or two. Of course, often on TV a gunshot wound is frequently just as unrealistically depicted, but I think the writers might have been considering that the viewers would see the bats as less lethal, and worked that supposition into the plot.

[Xeliou66]

I’m not saying that the mom wasn’t partially responsible, she was, but the shooter deserved a more severe sentence IMO, I thought it was ridiculous that the jury wanted them to get the same sentence. The mom did escalate the situation and was partially responsible, but her kids didn’t start the altercation nor did she fire the gun. The shooter was rightfully charged with murder and the mom with manslaughter, and the shooter’s sentence should’ve been much more severe, so it pissed me off that the jury wanted them to get the same sentence when they weren’t equally responsible. The mom was wrong to arm them with baseball bats and escalate the situation, but they had a right to get their ball back, they didn’t start the altercation, the shooter’s son and his friends started the altercation, if it wasn’t for them none of it would’ve happened. All I’m saying is that I don’t see the shooter and the mom as equally responsible and I thought they should’ve gotten different sentences. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:38 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Jeopardy tonight, great episode, where the judge, Schiff’s old friend, took the bribe from the defendants wealthy mother to acquit the defendant. Outstanding plot and some great moments for Schiff, I especially like the scene where Schiff walks in to the interrogation room where Hynes was being interrogated, and just stood in the doorway until everyone exited, it showed how Schiff could say a lot without saying a single word, implying with just a look that he wanted to speak to Hynes alone, and it showed everyone’s respect for Schiff. This was the only time Schiff visited the police station BTW. 

Also, I liked how Schiff slowly realized something was off with Hynes and his look of disappointment when he realized it, and his reaction changing from happiness at being able to put away Nicados to a look of sorrow at the end when finding out about Hynes’ suicide, and telling Kincaid to bring the liquor bottle to him. Schiff was awesome , an upstanding and wise man who said a lot with very few words. 

I really liked McCoy’s argument for reinstating the murder charges, saying that since the trial was rigged jeopardy never attached and justice wasn’t to be sold to the highest bidder. 

The investigation was good as well, but it was overshadowed by the more memorable legal stuff.

I liked McCoy’s quip after Nicados said he didn’t do anything - “you’ve already learned the Rikers island theme song, good for you”.

I liked the reference to Ben Stone, when it was mentioned Hynes had presided over one of Stone’s cases, where he made a different ruling allowing the forensic evidence in that he had tossed out in the current case.

Overall a fantastic episode, probably my favorite from season 6, great case with some good stuff for each character, especially Schiff. 

The icing on the cake for me was seeing that SMUG, SMARMY, SELF-RIGHTEOUS Rothenberg “lose” a case.

My GOD-the whiiiiining how getting the forensic report proving Nikodos was there, and how now it TOTALLY would change how he would have to defend his loser client. Like he can only think of one idea at a time.

And shut up, writers, for putting words in Van Buren’s mouth about things that were patently untrue in ”Savages” about Mike.

Curtis is an asshole who loves to go over the line. Yeah, Mike was a hot head, but he was no “Rambo” nor did he constantly beat up on suspects. Him punching Crossley was an instinctive plot point to usher Noth’s exit action. The many times we saw Mike in interrogation, he never once did what Curtis did.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The icing on the cake for me was seeing that SMUG, SMARMY, SELF-RIGHTEOUS Rothenberg “lose” a case.

My GOD-the whiiiiining how getting the forensic report proving Nikodos was there, and how now it TOTALLY would change how he would have to defend his loser client. Like he can only think of one idea at a time.

And shut up, writers, for putting words in Van Buren’s mouth about things that were patently untrue in ”Savages” about Mike.

Curtis is an asshole who loves to go over the line. Yeah, Mike was a hot head, but he was no “Rambo” nor did he constantly beat up on suspects. Him punching Crossley was an instinctive plot point to usher Noth’s exit action. The many times we saw Mike in interrogation, he never once did what Curtis did.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Yeah it was great to see Rothenberg lose. Jeopardy is a great episode all around, the case was great and there were some great moments for Schiff and McCoy, like I said I love the scene where Schiff enters the interrogation room and lets everyone know just by his facial expressions and gestures that he wants to talk to Hynes alone, and earlier when Schiff tells McCoy something is off with Hynes because he had ruled differently about allowing forensic evidence in in one of Stone’s cases a few years earlier (nice way to mention Stone as well), Schiff could say a lot with just his expressions and gestures, and then at the end as well after getting the call about Hynes’ suicide, just sadly telling Kincaid to bring over the liquor bottle. McCoy had some great moments as well - I loved his arguments about double jeopardy not attaching because the defendant was never in jeopardy, and his line about Nicados already learning the Rikers Island theme song was awesome. 

About Curtis and Logan - you are right that Logan never did what Curtis did in interrogation, although Logan had a few instances of anger problems, not just when he punched Crossley, but remember in Wedded Bliss for example he got rough a couple of times with suspects and Cerreta warned him about his behavior. But yeah Curtis was a self righteous dick who thought he had free reign to break the rules, and I thought Van Buren was correct in chewing him out and in chewing Lennie out for giving him free reign, about her line about Logan I understood why she said it because Logan had been demoted for assaulting someone even though the circumstances were different. 

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And shut up, writers, for putting words in Van Buren’s mouth about things that were patently untrue in ”Savages” about Mike.

Curtis is an asshole who loves to go over the line. Yeah, Mike was a hot head, but he was no “Rambo” nor did he constantly beat up on suspects. Him punching Crossley was an instinctive plot point to usher Noth’s exit action. The many times we saw Mike in interrogation, he never once did what Curtis did.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

About Curtis and Logan - you are right that Logan never did what Curtis did in interrogation, although Logan had a few instances of anger problems, not just when he punched Crossley, but remember in Wedded Bliss for example he got rough a couple of times with suspects and Cerreta warned him about his behavior. But yeah Curtis was a self righteous dick who thought he had free reign to break the rules, and I thought Van Buren was correct in chewing him out and in chewing Lennie out for giving him free reign, about her line about Logan I understood why she said it because Logan had been demoted for assaulting someone even though the circumstances were different. 

I'm with @Xeliou66 on this one. The anger issues were an established part of the character from early on in the series. As charming as the actor and the character are there is a tendency to forget that the portrayal was always a complicated and nuanced and his flaws were always there. The writers aren't pulling things out of their nether regions when other characters talk about him being perceived as maybe not always seeing women equally or having problems with as Cragen so memorably put it "his famous temper". Was it a fair comparison? Not necessarily, but Van Buren was not an infallible character either and it certainly was a quick and effective way of making a point that needed to be made.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

I'm with @Xeliou66 on this one. The anger issues were an established part of the character from early on in the series. As charming as the actor and the character are there is a tendency to forget that the portrayal was always a complicated and nuanced and his flaws were always there. The writers aren't pulling things out of their nether regions when other characters talk about him being perceived as maybe not always seeing women equally or having problems with as Cragen so memorably put it "his famous temper". Was it a fair comparison? Not necessarily, but Van Buren was not an infallible character either and it certainly was a quick and effective way of making a point that needed to be made.

Yes Logan’s hot temper was something that was established early on as part of his character - his punching Crossley wasn’t an isolated incident, he showed several instances of having a hot temper, although I found him very different from Curtis, in that Logan wasn’t a self righteous dick and Curtis seemed to think he had the right to get rough with suspects whereas Logan just came across as having a quick temper. I didn’t have an issue with Van Buren’s comparison in Savages, because she was right to berate Briscoe for giving Curtis free reign to assault someone and she was reminding him that assaulting someone was what got Logan demoted and transferred. That being said I thought Van Buren should’ve gone in herself and pulled Curtis out when she saw he was starting to get rough with the guy. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Logan’s hot temper was something that was established early on as part of his character - his punching Crossley wasn’t an isolated incident, he showed several instances of having a hot temper, although I found him very different from Curtis, in that Logan wasn’t a self righteous dick and Curtis seemed to think he had the right to get rough with suspects whereas Logan just came across as having a quick temper. I didn’t have an issue with Van Buren’s comparison in Savages, because she was right to berate Briscoe for giving Curtis free reign to assault someone and she was reminding him that assaulting someone was what got Logan demoted and transferred. That being said I thought Van Buren should’ve gone in herself and pulled Curtis out when she saw he was starting to get rough with the guy. 

I don't dispute that Logan had a temper. He did. He was a hot head. We saw him bump heads with Max and Phil; saw him get smart assy with Internal Affairs/other cops who were being assholes ("The Blue Wall") in refusing to help him figure out who was setting Cragen up as a dirty cop.

And yes, he pushed the envelope in "Confession" but that was due to his grief over Max's murder.

I certainly don't think Van Buren is infallible. I've criticized her for accusing Mike of not respecting her "rank in a skirt" line that came out of nowhere. What she said about him in the movie that NEVER happened! And now this.

He never out and out got overly rough with any suspects. Okay, yeah, there was that guy in "Mayhem" where he shoved that sandwich? down his throat.

[shapeshifter]

6.16 "Savior" just aired on Bounce:

Quote

The murder of Joyce Weber and her son Billy who were found shot in their beds. Her eldest daughter Jenna survived the attack but the father, Ron Weber, says he was out drinking and passed out in a local diner. Weber had been having a hard time of late. His alcoholism was getting the better of him and he had lost his job, something he had failed to tell his wife. He was worried about how he would care for his family and meet his responsibilities as the head of the family. Dr. Olivet confirms that he fits the pattern of a family annihilator and ADA McCoy proceeds with the prosecution. Part way through the trial however, Olivet begins to have doubts leading the police and the DA's office to take a second look at Jenna Weber's boyfriend Chester

Original air date was March 13, 1996. It was interesting/amusing that the final-twist-killers turned out to be the recognizable-to-me, award-winning actors in early roles before they were known: 21-year-old Shawn Hatosy and 27-year-old Ellen Pompeo, who was believably playing a teenager.

[GHScorpiosRule]

"Charm City" is an episode where the hypocrisy of Lennie, Curtis, Van Buren, and McCoy is off the charts.

As if Lennie and Curtis don't cross the line or get very close to it whenever they question perps who ask for their lawyers. Do they stop questioning? No. Lennie always pulls out the "well, if you want us to help you, the lawyer will just muddy all that up" or similar dialogue.

Jack does his own kind of crossing the line, with his "I don't have to disclose blah, blah, blah," because as far as he's concerned, it's not exculpatory, blah, blah, blah.

I was totally #TeamPembleton in this.

Curtis and Lennie were just pissed off because Pembleton and Bayliss had gotten Egan's name and address.

Edited August 24, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[Broderbits]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As if Lennie and Curtis don't cross the line or get very close to it whenever they question perps who ask for their lawyers. Do they stop questioning? No. Lennie always pulls out the "well, if you want us to help you, the lawyer will just muddy all that up" or similar dialogue.

That's why it's so important to remember "you have the right to remain silent"! In these situations it always amazes me that people might believe the police want to "help" them.

[shapeshifter]

6.16 "Slave" is airing now on Bounce:

Quote

A woman is killed after stray bullets travel through her apartment window. Briscoe and Curtis learn that an abused 13-year-old who was forced to work for a drug dealer by his drug-addicted mother was the shooter.

I never noticed before the little flirtation between Lennie and Van Buren:

Quote

[LENNIE DEFENDING REY CURTIS TO VAN BUREN] Hey, I need somebody around like him, otherwise I'd never get out of bed.

[VAN BUREN] Well, chill him out, please.

[LENNIE] You know me:
"I play it cool, I dig all jive
"That's the reason I stay alive
"My motto, as I live and learn
Is dig and be dug in return"

[VAN BUREN] You read Langston Hughes on a men's room wall?

[LENNIE] Back when I was a beatnik for about five minutes,
it used to work pretty good on the Jewish girls from Riverdale.

[VAN BUREN SMILING COYLY] It does pretty good with girls from Washington Heights.

 

[shapeshifter]

In 16.20 "Girlfriends" (1996) --

Quote

While investigating the murder of undergraduate Bridget Kaylin, who is found dead in her college's library. Briscoe and Curtis learn from campus authorities that there have been a number of attacks on female students recently, so they check out an ex-boyfriend and several of her friends, but that leads to nothing. A credit-card receipt leads them to a posh restaurant, where one of the workers recognizes her photo and is convinced that she working as a high-class prostitute. The detectives set up a sting, and one of Bridget's classmates admits that several of them have been working as high-class call girls, organized by Shelley Taggert (Cara Buono) with the tacit approval - if not more - of her father, businessman Barry Taggert. After Taggart's daughter flees to Europe, ADA McCoy uses racketeering statutes against Taggert to force her to return.

There's a physical resemblance between the actor (James Naughton) who plays the father who, with his daughter, recruits college girls to be prostitutes for his wealthy clients, and the late Jeffrey Epstein. I wonder if this casting was on purpose and/or if the episode was inspired by Epstein's own "enterprise corruption."

  

Edited August 25, 2020 by shapeshifter

[KHenry14]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

In 16.20 "Girlfriends" (1996) --

There's a physical resemblance between the actor (James Naughton) who plays the father who, with his daughter, recruits college girls to be prostitutes for his wealthy clients, and the late Jeffrey Epstein. I wonder if this casting was on purpose and/or if the episode was inspired by Epstein's own "enterprise corruption."

  

OK. now that's creepy/weird

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

There's a physical resemblance between the actor (James Naughton) who plays the father who, with his daughter, recruits college girls to be prostitutes for his wealthy clients, and the late Jeffrey Epstein. I wonder if this casting was on purpose and/or if the episode was inspired by Epstein's own "enterprise corruption."

I don't see it.

Since Epstein's crimes were pretty much hidden until recently, I doubt casting was thinking about him. Michael Jackson was their go to ripped from the headlines plots. None of their episodes based on the headlines had the actors who looked like the alleged criminals cast.

Then again, what do I know?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, KHenry14 said:

OK. now that's creepy/weird

Even weirder and creepier to me is this picture I found while Googling a young Ghislane Maxwell because I kept thinking the daughter and madame (played by Cara Buono with short dark hair) resembled her. In this picture, the other young women also bear strong resemblances to the dead prostitute (uncredited, but the character's name is Bridget Kaylin) and the other one (played by Joelle Carter) who takes the stand against the others.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/02/16/30316232-8483641-Deborah_Blohm_Jeffrey_Epstein_Ghislaine_Maxwell_and_Gwendolyn_Be-a-47_1593705574734.jpg
I'm just posting it as a link because (a) the resemblances creeped me out, and (b) it's probably coincidental. Right?

 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Then again, what do I know?

I don't know anything either. I do freelance portrait painting, so the resemblances might have stood out more to me.

Edited August 25, 2020 by shapeshifter

[blondiec0332]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

In 16.20 "Girlfriends" (1996) --

There's a physical resemblance between the actor (James Naughton) who plays the father who, with his daughter, recruits college girls to be prostitutes for his wealthy clients, and the late Jeffrey Epstein. I wonder if this casting was on purpose and/or if the episode was inspired by Epstein's own "enterprise corruption."

  

That episode aired in the late 90s. That was before Epstein's crimes were known. So if that character was based on Epstein someone on the writing staff would have had to known something.  Which I really hope isn't the case.  Let's chalk this up to a spooky coincidence.  

[stonehaven]

Just watched the opening of "Humiliation". I love the episode overall but I think a shout out must be made to Herb Lovelle(RIP) who played Luther. He had some other bit roles on L&O over the years but watching Herb was such a joy. Plus, I cheer for him whenever I see him, as he played drums for John Denver back in the 70's.

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

Just watched the opening of "Humiliation". I love the episode overall but I think a shout out must be made to Herb Lovelle(RIP) who played Luther. He had some other bit roles on L&O over the years but watching Herb was such a joy. Plus, I cheer for him whenever I see him, as he played drums for John Denver back in the 70's.

I caught that the other day too. I loved that Lennie treated the homeless guy as a neighbor rather than a person of  interest, although in other episodes and IRL that probably wouldn't happen. Regardless, unvarnished warmth in the writing towards the homeless is conveyed:

Quote

[LENNIE] Luther here found the body. He was giving CPR.

[LUTHER] The Hamlick.

[REY CURTIS OR LENNIE?] You mean the Heimlich?

[LUTHER] What's a Heim?

[LENNIE] It's right around the corner from the ham.

[LUTHER] That, too, then.

 

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Skate or Die, and I thought Cutter should’ve been taken off the case after he provoked Applebaum into assaulting him so Olivet would medicate him and he would be rational enough to testify against the business partners who committed the murders at the start of the episode thinking one of the people they were killing was him. What Cutter did was wrong, and he did it for his own selfish reasons of wanting to win the case, and Olivet called McCoy wanting Cutter suspended, McCoy at the very least should taken him off the case and had Rubirosa finish the case as lead prosecutor. I was irritated that Cutter didn’t face any consequences for his behavior.

Overall I liked Cutter, not as good as McCoy or Stone but I liked him and thought he had good chemistry with the rest of the characters, but he irritated me a few times, and at times in season 19 it seemed like he couldn’t win a case straight up and he had to resort to using some form of trickery to put the perps away. Fortunately that stopped in season 20.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

at times in season 19 it seemed like he couldn’t win a case straight up and he had to resort to using some form of trickery to put the perps away. Fortunately that stopped in season 20.

I felt the same way watching some Cutter episodes recently. I imagined the writers sitting around saying something like:
[WRITER 1] So. We get to write for a new, young DA. How can we make him unique?
[WRITER 2] Let’s make him go crazy pants with the law. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I felt the same way watching some Cutter episodes recently. I imagined the writers sitting around saying something like:
[WRITER 1] So. We get to write for a new, young DA. How can we make him unique?
[WRITER 2] Let’s make him go crazy pants with the law. 

Yes - Cutter specifically pissed me off in Bogeyman when he pretended to be part of the Systomotics cult to bully the defendant into taking a plea, and in Skate or Die for the aforementioned incident. He should’ve been taken off the case in Skate or Die, McCoy just let him get off with a minor reprimand. There were a few other incidents where he had to resort to trickery as well, it was irritating. I thought he was a pretty good character but he annoyed me a few times. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm taking this show off of Bounce. Not only are they as bad as Sundance with the ridonkulous censoring, but they edit more scenes out!

"Homesick" is one of my favorites, and I will always be bitter Wolf and company couldn't or wouldn't lure Patti Lupone to be more recurring, as I LOVE Ruthie Miller! She was a great defense attorney and a worthy adversary for Jack. They cut out the whole exchange where Curtis and Lennie question that doorman/guard whoever that the au pair "liked". who told them he was only interested in banging her because of her accent.

And they also cut out the scene in "Bitter Fruit" that led them to suspect the mother--that the kidnapper knew her through his boss, who was in rehab with her. They just went to her being found guilty, but her punishment being probation/halfway house, to Jack and Claire trying to figure out how to get her for being involved in her child's kidnapping.

And they cut these scenes right in the middle of the scenes so it's obvious it's additional and sloppy editing.

Plus I can't stand Curtis. I don't know why he's a cop, when he doesn't give a shit about the job; thinks most of the cases are a waste of his time and aren't worth investigating.

I watched "Aftershock" only for Claire's step father to show her no pity and throw in her face her "moral superiority" when she went whining about wanting to quit because of the death penalty--something that was on the table and that she was willing to go through in "Savages". Fast forwarded everything else, except for Lennie  and Jack scenes. And man, do I loathe Cathy. And they cut out the scenes with Van Buren with her husband!

But Carey Lowell is such a better and stronger actor and Jamie so much a stronger character than Claire/Jill.

Edited August 28, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[blondiec0332]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But Carey Lowell is such a better and stronger actor and Jamie so much a stronger character than Claire/Jill.

I liked Jamie so much better than Claire. She was an adult. An actual lawyer. With Claire it always felt like she was a law student.

Although the Jamie years was when they shifted a lot of focus to the character's personal lives.  We knew so much more about Jamie than we ever did about Abby.  

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I liked Jamie so much better than Claire. She was an adult. An actual lawyer. With Claire it always felt like she was a law student.

Although the Jamie years was when they shifted a lot of focus to the character's personal lives.  We knew so much more about Jamie than we ever did about Abby.  

I liked Jamie Ross a lot as well - she was very competent and had good chemistry with the rest of the cast. Claire was decent but she was rather soft at times. 

I’ve said it before but season 8 had WAY too much personal crap that dragged down the show, it was unlike L&O to have that much personal stuff for each character - we had Briscoe’s daughter dying, Curtis’ wife’s illness, Van Buren suing the department, Schiff running for re-election, McCoy facing the disciplinary committee and some about Ross’ custody battle with her ex. And it was all for nothing and it just served to make the characters look bad, particularly in McCoy’s case, and then in that awful season finale Monster everyone looked bad - it was like they just threw logic and their ethics out the window and decided to coerce a confession from someone, guilt or innocence be damned. Everyone was too distracted by their own person crap to realize what they were doing - and while Judge Feldman was an ass, he was right in suggesting that the guy who was arrested at first that they coerced the confession from should sue the NYPD and the DA’s office, I hope he did and won. 

And nothing much came from all of this personal crap - for example Van Buren suing the department was a stupid storyline that went nowhere and was never mentioned again after the first episode of season 9 I believe. McCoy’s actions in Under the Influence just made him look bad and it was referenced a couple of times over the years but overall all it did was smear his character. Briscoe’s daughters death was just done to give Lennie more angst in his personal life. Schiff facing a challenge for re-election was somewhat interesting at least. The only storylines that really went somewhere were Jamie’s custody battle and Curtis’ wife’s illness, because those 2 things led to the characters exits from the show. 

Because of all the personal crap - season 8 is probably my least favorite season of the show outside of seasons 15-17. Season 8 had a lot of good cases but the personal stuff made it a tad weaker than the other seasons around it. 

[WendyCR72]

I know this show airs on millions of channels already, but (and maybe it has been and I missed it, as I don't often check listings) I see that BBC America is now among the show. Like MTV is no longer about music, I have heard that BBC America has not aired British programming in forever. Still, this seems sort of random!  😊

So be it. Just sort of surprised, considering the channel does not air the L&O: UK adaption (that I have seen, anyway!).

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I watched "Aftershock" only for Claire's step father to show her no pity and throw in her face her "moral superiority" when she went whining about wanting to quit because of the death penalty--something that was on the table and that she was willing to go through in "Savages". Fast forwarded everything else, except for Lennie  and Jack scenes. And man, do I loathe Cathy. And they cut out the scenes with Van Buren with her husband!

I only caught the last 5 minutes of “Aftershock” this week on Bounce, to refresh my memory about the details of the accident, so I can’t verify for my local Bounce
—but, wow. They cut the scene with Van Buren with her husband?!? 
Now that you mention it, I thought the accident scene was shorter than I recalled. Do you know if they cut something there too?

Edited August 29, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I only caught the last 5 minutes of “Aftershock” this week on Bounce, to refresh my memory about the details of the accident, so I can’t verify for my local Bounce
—but, wow. They cut the scene with Van Buren with her husband?!? 
Now that you mention it, I thought the accident scene was shorter than I recalled. Do you know if they cut something there too?

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen Aftershock, it’s an episode that I usually skip as it’s my least favorite episode ever by a mile, but from what I remember the accident scene at the end was quick and sudden and didn’t last long - Kincaid and Briscoe were driving along and suddenly the drunk driver plows into them, and after a minute Briscoe gets out and goes around to check on Kincaid and as he does so the camera pans out and the episode ends. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen Aftershock, it’s an episode that I usually skip as it’s my least favorite episode ever by a mile, but from what I remember the accident scene at the end was quick and sudden and didn’t last long - Kincaid and Briscoe were driving along and suddenly the drunk driver plows into them, and after a minute Briscoe gets out and goes around to check on Kincaid and as he does so the camera pans out and the episode ends. 

Pretty much.  And as I fast forwarded all scenes with Curtis, I did notice they cut out the sex scene with him and Jennifer Garner’s character. That is, I remember them undressing each other (curse my memory!) or something.

What is really odd is that ”Savages” took place maybe in early Fall? But by the time the sentencing phase ended, with the jury voting for death, it was February.

Which means that all episodes that took aired after, took place between the trial and sentencing phase!🤪🤪🤪 And Claire didn’t utter one word about how Inhumane it was; just that he would now go through the appeals process and who knew when he’d die.

But Claire revealed that she should have left the office and just gone over to the defense with her discomfort prosecuting the mother in ”Bitter Fruit”, telling Jack they should show the woman who killed her accomplice and the courtroom, “mercy” because she lost her daughter.🙄🙄🙄🙄

And as for trickery, Jack wasn’t above in using those tactics himself, or not revealing exculpatory information if it didn’t suit him.  So saying Cutter did it regularly isn’t quite fair.

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know this show airs on millions of channels already, but (and maybe it has been and I missed it, as I don't often check listings) I see that BBC America is now among the show. Like MTV is no longer about music, I have heard that BBC America has not aired British programming in forever. Still, this seems sort of random!  😊

So be it. Just sort of surprised, considering the channel does not air the L&O: UK adaption (that I have seen, anyway!).

Are you saying that BBC America is now airing this show? Because I checked my listing on my provider, after reading this, and nope. Not on the schedule. At all. I have ComCrap.

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Are you saying that BBC America is now airing this show? Because I checked my listing on my provider, after reading this, and nope. Not on the schedule. At all. I have ComCrap.

Maybe it is new then? Because the Zap2It TV Listings have it listed for September 7th. (Note: Not sure if the link will work as it is through my provider. But I'd think the schedule would be the same regardless! So, if the link doesn't work, try your zip code!)

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe it is new then? Because the Zap2It TV Listings have it listed for September 7th. (Note: Not sure if the link will work as it is through my provider. But I'd think the schedule would be the same regardless! So, if the link doesn't work, try your zip code!)

Didn't see BBC America listed in that article you linked. Just WGN, ION and WE

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Didn't see BBC America listed in that article you linked. Just WGN, ION and WE

Maybe a dumb question, but did you keep scrolling? 'Cause I just checked again and it's still there! 🙂

Just to show I am not hallucinating:

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe a dumb question, but did you keep scrolling? 'Cause I just checked again and it's still there! 🙂

Just to show I am not hallucinating:

 

 

I did, but didn't see it, so went to BBC America's website and saw it. Maybe my provider guide hasn't updated its schedule yet.

Of COURSE they start with Season 12.😒

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I did, but didn't see it, so went to BBC America's website and saw it. Maybe my provider guide hasn't updated its schedule yet.

Of COURSE they start with Season 12.😒

Must be some sort of licensing issue. Maybe with WE and Sundance having the full series, the other channels just have to take what they can...

[coffee drinker]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Are you saying that BBC America is now airing this show? Because I checked my listing on my provider, after reading this, and nope. Not on the schedule. At all. I have ComCrap.

BBC American just started airing episodes on Monday evenings.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, coffee drinker said:

BBC American just started airing episodes on Monday evenings.  

This is just odd. I had set it up for ION to record, but yes, now it’s showing up on my BBC AMERICA schedule as of September 7. BUT it’s starting with episode 14, that’s like from the half way season point.

The whole licensing/rights is confusing. I know Sundance has aired all 20 seasons, but only airs 13-20; not sure if IONhas all seasons or not. I no longer have WE so not sure if they air all seasons or not.

Peacock SHOULD HAVE ALL seasons! The earlier ones are the best.

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This is just odd. I had set it up for ION to record, but yes, now it’s showing up on my BBC AMERICA schedule as of September 7. BUT it’s starting with episode 14, that’s like from the half way season point.

The whole licensing/rights is confusing. I know Sundance has aired all 20 seasons, but only airs 13-20; not sure if IONhas all seasons or not. I no longer have WE so not sure if they air all seasons or not.

Peacock SHOULD HAVE ALL seasons! The earlier ones are the best.

WE airs all 20 seasons, they advertise it all the time. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the earlier seasons on Sundance so I’m not sure if they have access to them or not. ION only shows seasons 13-20. 

[Gramto6]

I would really like to rewatch LO:UK, I wish someone would rerun them, I love me some Jamie Bamber! And I don't want to have to pay to see them...

Edited August 30, 2020 by Gramto6

[dargosmydaddy]

12 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I would really like to rewatch LO:UK, I wish someone would rerun them, I love me some Jamie Bamber! And I don't want to have to pay to see them...

I think you can do a free trial on the SundanceNow streaming thing-y, if you ever have a week where you feel like binging... I've been tempted. (I have the DVDs of most of the Bamber years, but they never released his final season, which I would like to watch again... and I never got to see anything beyond that. I'd kind of like to watch the aftermath of his death episode at the very least. Although it looks like SunDance only has five seasons, and I think that was the sixth?).

Edited August 30, 2020 by dargosmydaddy

[FormerMod-a1]

Sundance does are all seasons, that's where I usually see seasons 1-5.  I don't have my DVR set to record, because my word it'd be recording all the time 😄 , but when I'm in the mood for L&O I check Sundance, WE, ION, BBCA (recent add since I noticed them airing it a couple of weeks ago, as discussed above), and TNT (out of habit).  It's usually Sundance or WE that I can catch the earlier seasons.

Also, I HATE! Aftershock.  Everyone was so out of character, and it was all so muadlin,  I could see maybe a couple of them engaging in destructive behaviors, but all of them? to that extreme?  I think I said it before, but I actually stopped watching for at least a whole season after that.  (Not that it mattered since we weren't a Neilson household).  I remember watching it live and being that pissed.  Even my mom knew I was pissed about it.  😄  

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

Sundance does are all seasons, that's where I usually see seasons 1-5.  I don't have my DVR set to record, because my word it'd be recording all the time 😄 , but when I'm in the mood for L&O I check Sundance, WE, ION, BBCA (recent add since I noticed them airing it a couple of weeks ago, as discussed above), and TNT (out of habit).  It's usually Sundance or WE that I can catch the earlier seasons.

Also, I HATE! Aftershock.  Everyone was so out of character, and it was all so muadlin,  I could see maybe a couple of them engaging in destructive behaviors, but all of them? to that extreme?  I think I said it before, but I actually stopped watching for at least a whole season after that.  (Not that it mattered since we weren't a Neilson household).  I remember watching it live and being that pissed.  Even my mom knew I was pissed about it.  😄  

Agreed with everything you said about Aftershock, it is the WORST episode of the Mothership and it’s not even close. There was no case and everyone was so OOC, I didn’t buy for a second that witnessing the execution of a killer would cause all 4 characters to basically have breakdowns, I especially didn’t buy that it would cause Briscoe to drink again. The only one I could see being really affected was Kincaid given her opposition to the death penalty. The whole thing was a pure soap opera and the complete opposite of what L&O is about. I hate that episode with a passion and I rarely rewatch it. Fortunately it was the only time the Mothership ever did anything like it.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Asterisk tonight, I like this episode a lot but Serena was irritating in this one. She was self righteous with McCoy regarding McCoy wanting to call the witness who sold Seleeby steroids, and basically acted like McCoy was unethical, Serena could be really whiny and annoying at times. And I had mixed feelings about Judge Bradley’s decision to preclude the witness from testifying - I understood where the defense was coming from but I also thought that how did they not know for sure that the victim wasn’t also blackmailing Seleeby about his steroid use? So I thought that it wouldn’t really be unethical to introduce evidence of the victim helping Seleeby get steroids. I had mixed feelings about Bradley’s decision, I understood both sides of it, what does everyone else think? But Serena’s whining was annoying, and McCoy was right at the end when he said he had nothing to apologize for. 

The episode was really good all around - I loved Briscoe and Green’s investigation, a lot of good detective work there, McCoy’s closing argument was strong as always, I liked the scene in the morgue where ME Rodgers demonstrates on Green how the killer snapped the victims neck and how she knew he was a lefty, and Skoda was strong as usual. 

And I think Branch was unfortunately right with his final line about the culture of locker rooms and how cheating is more sympathetic than being gay, I think that is still true today, seeing how there are no openly gay athletes in the major sports and how cheating seems more acceptable than being gay. This was also an episode that hinted at Serena’s sexuality IMO, with the scene with her at the gay magazine and her comments throughout the episode. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

If anyone wants to see Dann Florek (Donald Cragen) in another role, he is in an old episode of Hunter, also streaming on Peacock, from Season 4 (so about 1987, this was the Halloween episode, as I believe it fell on a Saturday that year! ETA: Google confirms!), called "Night On Bald Mountain".

And Richard Kline, a.k.a. Larry from Three's Company, plays one of his brothers.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

If anyone wants to see Dann Florek (Donald Cragen) in another role, he is in an old episode of Hunter, also streaming on Peacock, from Season 4 (so about 1987, this was the Halloween episode, as I believe it fell on a Saturday that year! ETA: Google confirms!), called "Night On Bald Mountain”

I am only familiar with the music of the opera “Night On Bald Mountain” from Disney’s Fantasia, “Still,” as Cragen might say, “I have to ask,”— 
—is the episode title (“Night on Bald Mountain”) at any point referential to 1987 Dann Florek losing his hair?
🧐😉

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I am only familiar with the music of the opera “Night On Bald Mountain” from Disney’s Fantasia, “Still,” as Cragen might say, “I have to ask,”— 
—is the episode title (“Night on Bald Mountain”) at any point referential to 1987 Dann Florek losing his hair?
🧐😉

LOL! Ouch. But I don't think so.  😉 

[SusieQ]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

If anyone wants to see Dann Florek (Donald Cragen) in another role, he is in an old episode of Hunter, also streaming on Peacock, from Season 4 (so about 1987, this was the Halloween episode, as I believe it fell on a Saturday that year! ETA: Google confirms!), called "Night On Bald Mountain".

And Richard Kiley, a.k.a. Larry from Three's Company, plays one of his brothers.

I think you mean Richard Kline was in Three's Company.I

Richard Kiley wasn't in that show. He was a great stage actor and was in the Broadway production of Man of La Mancha (sang "The Impossible Dream!!!) He also did tv and film but not TC.

[WendyCR72]

16 minutes ago, SusieQ said:

I think you mean Richard Kline was in Three's Company.I

Richard Kiley wasn't in that show. He was a great stage actor and was in the Broadway production of Man of La Mancha (sang "The Impossible Dream!!!) He also did tv and film but not TC.

Damn. I was thinking Kline and wrote that. Will edit. Thanks!