All Episodes Talk

[Ms Blue Jay]

27 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As for favorite episodes from the first season, "A Midwinter Night's Dream" will always be a personal favorite of mine :). The Niles/Daphne of it all is just so great, but I love all the little details, too - the "Heathcliff" reference, the "glockenspiel has sprung to life!" line, Daphne mangling Niles' story about what makes his relationship with Maris so special ("And how they laugh at white people!")...

That episode has one of the best lines, and one of the best David Hyde Pierce deliveries:

Quote

Niles: [staring into her eyes:] Oh... Daphne, don't worry. You are a very special person, and some day a man worthy of you will come along... just as soon as the gods create him.

Daphne: [laughs] That's the loveliest thing anyone's ever said to me. Thank you, Dr. Crane. You're a good friend.

27 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As for favorite episodes from the first season, "A Midwinter Night's Dream" will always be a personal favorite of mine :). The Niles/Daphne of it all is just so great, but I love all the little details, too - the "Heathcliff" reference, the "glockenspiel has sprung to life!" line, Daphne mangling Niles' story about what makes his relationship with Maris so special ("And how they laugh at white people!")...

...and the whole thing of Niles showing up at Frasier's in the middle of the night, dressed as a pirate XD. I don't care how many times I see that scene, it never fails to make me laugh. 

LOL, you're right, all of this is so funny.  And towards the end it's a huge storm and Frasier bangs on Niles's enormous floor to ceiling windows right?  

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That episode has one of the best lines, and one of the best David Hyde Pierce deliveries:

LOL, you're right, all of this is so funny.  And towards the end it's a huge storm and Frasier bangs on Niles's enormous floor to ceiling windows right?  

Awwwwww, yeah, I love the way he ultimately helps Daphne genuinely feel better about her breakup :). That's a really sweet moment between them. 

And LOL, yes, Frasier's all drenched from the pouring rain and he comes upon the house just as Daphne kisses Niles on the cheek and starts banging away and screaming :p. And then at the very end, Frasier, Niles, and Daphne are all happily singing songs together while Martin's the one stuck outside in the rain and banging on the window. 

And that's another fun thing about the episode, Martin and Frasier arguing with each other as they frantically rush to Niles' house. "You'll make better time if you take the side by the fountain. " *Pause* "Well, same to you!"

[Ms Blue Jay]

That always makes me think of other episodes at Niles's house with the big windows.  

Season 3, "The Last Time I Saw Maris"

Like when he starts breaking all the plates.

or Frasier's big speech which is one of my favourites:

Look, all I'm saying is that along with the good things in your marriage, there were problems — things you said you couldn't live with anymore. Now if you want those to change, you have got to stand up to her. If you back down now, you will go through the rest of your life feeling weak and small because you never had the courage to say, "I will not let you treat me like this, Lilith! ...Maris!"

Niles and Martin stare at him.

Frasier: Well, I've lost all credibility here. Dad, would you please say something?

[Annber03]

LOL, I like when they start arguing over which things to break, too - Martin doesn't want them to break one 'cause he'd brought it as a wedding present for Niles and Maris, and Daphne wants them to leave one vase alone 'cause she thinks it's pretty :p. 

And then Marta comes in and sees everything and Niles tells her she should try this, it's cathartic. So Marta breaks a vase, and Niles is like, "....I meant at your place.." 

And ha, yeah, Frasier's big speech there is great. He had a really good thing going with his advice, right up until the end :p. I also like Martin being all, "We'll support you either way"...and then when it looks at first like Niles is going to go upstairs to see Maris, he goes, "Are you NUTS?!" I mean, he's saying what we're all thinking, of course, but still...:D. 

That episode is a great example of what "Frasier" did so well, though, blending the funny moments with the more serious, poignant ones. Niles' reflection as he quietly leaves his house at the end...you just want to hug the poor guy. And as frustrated as Niles does eventually get with Frasier for his constant meddling, there's a nice little moment between them early on, when Niles is all freaked out at the thought of Maris going missing. Frasier immediately rushes over to Niles' house and the moment Niles sees him, you can see the sheer relief on his face and he's all, "Oh, thank god you're here!" and they share a hug. I love those moments where we get to see that, for all their squabbling and competition and whatnot, they genuinely do care about and love each other. And I just always like it when Frasier instantly goes into "protective big brother" mode for Niles in general :). 

I also like how Martin relies on his cop skills to help try and track down Maris. It's a nice nod to how good this show was at its characterization, and knowing how to utilize each character's strengths and abilities. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

If anyone in Canada has the Women's Channel (or "W"), they've just started airing "Frasier" and "Will and Grace" from the beginning.

The quality for the Frasier episodes looks pretty bad, though. Funny to see a warning for coarse language and mature subject matter. Though I believe it did air at 9 pm or 9:30 pm back in the day.

Okay, I've played with the colour/brightness settings on my TV and it's better.  But I can still see weird little flaws in the film.  

The Pilot:

Niles:  Maris and I were just discussing how we should share responsibility.
Frasier:  You mean you'd take (Martin) in?
Niles (gasps and scoffs):  Dear God, no.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Interesting that Martin offers up "The room right across from mine" for Daphne to live in and Frasier says that's his study.  However, it always seemed to me that Frasier and Martin lived on the "left" wing of the suite while Daphne was alone on the right.

Here's a floorplan from online and I have added my best guesses in red.

[Ms Blue Jay]

For goodness sake, how much did a newspaper cost in 1993 Seattle?  If Frasier could almost be reduced to tears if his roommates read the newspaper before him, order two.  Not good for the environment though I admit.... 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Interesting that Martin offers up "The room right across from mine" for Daphne to live in and Frasier says that's his study.  However, it always seemed to me that Frasier and Martin lived on the "left" wing of the suite while Daphne was alone on the right.

Here's a floorplan from online and I have added my best guesses in red.

That line about the room across from Martin's always struck me, too, 'cause yeah, from what we've seen of that section of the apartment, there is no room across the hall from him. You've got Frasier and Martin's rooms down that hall, and on the other side is that gigantic window. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

This bathroom set up is just insanity. There shouldn't be TWO bathrooms in Daphne's wing, and you would certainly think Martin and Frasier should each have their own bathroom rather than Daphne having two, especially with Martin's needs.

Oh wait, there ARE two bathrooms in the top left corner.  But Martin's looks enormous compared to Frasier's?  Maybe I should reverse Martin and Frasier's names.

Frasier buying (renting?!) this apartment and having 4 bedrooms and 4.5 bathrooms.  Sigh.  Sigh.  What a life!

Have we ever seen use of that 4th bedroom?

I guess this is right, this makes the most sense I guess.  Especially because we know Frasier has the bed in the middle of his room.  And the big window @Annber03mentioned.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bort]

I don’t know what that map maker was smoking, there’s not a second bedroom on Daphne’s side of the apartment. If there were, Frasier would’ve just made THAT his study instead of bemoaning the loss of it with Daphne moving in.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I don’t know what that map maker was smoking, there’s not a second bedroom on Daphne’s side of the apartment. If there were, Frasier would’ve just made THAT his study instead of bemoaning the loss of it with Daphne moving in.

But Frasier also threw a fit when Martin had to move in.  And we know he had at least two extra bedrooms at that time -- What ended up being Martin's, and Daphne's.  So I say, what's an extra one?

It always made absolutely no sense that Frasier should take Martin in rather than Niles and Maris in their gigantic mansion.  It probably worked out better for Martin because Frasier was so close by to him at all times and they grew closer emotionally, but it's really far fetched that it would work this way.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bort]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

But Frasier also threw a fit when Martin had to move in.  And we know he had at least two extra bedrooms at that time -- What ended up being Martin's, and Daphne's.  So I say, what's an extra one?

It always made absolutely no sense that Frasier should take Martin in rather than Niles and Maris in their gigantic mansion.  It probably worked out better for Martin because Frasier was so close by to him at all times and they grew closer emotionally, but it's really far fetched that it would work this way.

Because it didn’t exist? They made it pretty clear throughout the show’s run that those three bedrooms were it.

If I recall, Martin didn’t want to live with Maris at all. Daphne was the compromise, Niles was paying for her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I just watched the pilot, and Martin didn't say Maris's name.  Niles claimed they didn't get along as a reason to not have to take him in.  It could be true, but he also made it clear he was not going to take Martin in.  

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

If I recall, Martin didn’t want to live with Maris at all. Daphne was the compromise, Niles was paying for her.

That brings up another interesting question - like you said, Niles said that he and Maris would help pay for whomever Frasier hired to help take care of Martin, and Daphne was the one Frasier picked.

So I wonder if, and how, Niles (and Maris) handled that once he got to know Daphne better, and given his own crush on her. 'Cause I can imagine that would've caused some potential issues as time went on, no? Did they ever go through with that offer? And if so, for how long?

[tessaray]

I always imagined that once Bebe renegotiated Frasier's contract, he probably paid Daphne directly. She spent more time on housekeeping tasks than Martin's therapy anyway.

[raven]

I just figured that Frasier paid Daphne and Niles reimbursed Frasier; I thought their agreement was that they would split it but I don't remember the exact terms.

Niles writing a check to Frasier each month would be easiest for everyone.  IIRC, Niles offered to pay not because Frasier couldn't afford it but because he would not take Martin in himself, even though he had a bigger home.

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 minutes ago, raven said:

I just figured that Frasier paid Daphne and Niles reimbursed Frasier; I thought their agreement was that they would split it but I don't remember the exact terms.

Niles writing a check to Frasier each month would be easiest for everyone.  IIRC, Niles offered to pay not because Frasier couldn't afford it but because he would not take Martin in himself, even though he had a bigger home.

Yes, that is what was said in the pilot.

[Ms Blue Jay]

What are some episodes you always skip?  I was reading about Frank Sinatra and I realized that I never rewatch the episode where Martin sends him a song because I can't bear how sad he is.  @Annber03I'd love to know if you have any like this, because you seem to be able to watch any episode that I can't 😄

[jird]

I always skip the Nanny G episode and all the ones with guest stars from Cheers. And the one where Niles and Frasier are competing courtroom experts.

[chessiegal]

I tend to skip the first 2 seasons because I really dislike Frasier's fru-fru haircut. 😅🤷‍♀️

[Ms Blue Jay]

Cutting off people's ties at the Timber Mill is so ridiculous.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I tend to skip the first 2 seasons because I really dislike Frasier's fru-fru haircut. 😅🤷‍♀️

That's so funny, because my brother used to say that when Frasier had that "long hair", you knew it would be a good episode.  But I thought that hairstyle only lasted for Season 1!  But you're right, it's 2 seasons I guess.  Also, I know my brother likes way more than Season 1 and 2 lol.  

Edited September 6, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Egg McMuffin]

7 hours ago, jird said:

I always skip the Nanny G episode and all the ones with guest stars from Cheers.

The Lilith ones excepted, I hope? I thought Lilith and Diane fit well into the Frasier universe. Everyone else, not so much.

[jird]

29 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

The Lilith ones excepted, I hope? I thought Lilith and Diane fit well into the Frasier universe. Everyone else, not so much.

Yes, I love the Lilith ones.

[ljenkins782]

20 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

The Lilith ones excepted, I hope? I thought Lilith and Diane fit well into the Frasier universe. Everyone else, not so much.

Yeah, I make exceptions for Lilith and the Diane episode is good, but outside of that, I don't care for Cheers guest stars on this one. And honestly, unlike other spinoffs, this show truly didn't need the call backs to the original show. They could have made no reference to Frasier's time in Boston after episode 1 and I wouldn't have noticed or cared.

Quote

I always imagined that once Bebe renegotiated Frasier's contract, he probably paid Daphne directly. She spent more time on housekeeping tasks than Martin's therapy anyway.

I mean, I guess it was worth it for the room and board, but the casual way they turned her into basically a servant bothers me. She's a physical therapist, that's an entirely different career choice than a housekeeper and the way Frasier would snap his fingers at her to answer the door or serve guests kinda bugged me.

Quote

I tend to skip the first 2 seasons because I really dislike Frasier's fru-fru haircut

I love the episodes in seasons 1 and 2, but completely agree on the haircut. Balding on top with hair to the collar in the back is so not attractive.

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I mean, I guess it was worth it for the room and board, but the casual way they turned her into basically a servant bothers me. She's a physical therapist, that's an entirely different career choice than a housekeeper and the way Frasier would snap his fingers at her to answer the door or serve guests kinda bugged me.

It bothered me too, but I'm rewatching from the beginning.  I'm only on episode 3 and she's already doing Frasier's laundry.  At first he's uncomfortable with it, but when he sees how good she is at it, he's happy.  I wonder how the heck that happened.  

But also, here's the job description from the pilot:  (I bolded some interesting points)

Niles: Funny you should mention that. Maris and I were just discussing this. We feel we should do more to share the responsibility.
Frasier: You mean you'd take him in?
Niles: [laughs incredulously] Dear God, no! But we would be willing to help you pay for a home care worker.
Frasier: A what?
Niles: You know, someone who cooks and cleans and can help Dad with his physical therapy. Frasier: These angels exist?
Niles: I know of an agency - let me arrange for them to send a few people over to meet with you.

Having someone answer the door when you're right there though........ I don't know.  That's a bit odd.  Obviously, Frasier is able to walk easier than Martin and cook etc. etc. ....... but Daphne's job definitely got immediately blurred.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[voiceover]

Last night was “An Affair to Forget”,  featuring the scene where Niles shows up to confront the married fencing instructor. Frasier translates Niles’ speech to Spanish, Marta tells Gunther auf Deutsch.  Then Niles is forced to throw down: “En garde!”

Frasier: “Oh yes, Niles, that’s just what we need: a fourth language!”

[Ailianna]

I just had home health aides (not live in!) after getting out of the hospital. They did things like laundry, floors, bed making, and so on. They were separate from my physical therapist, but I could see an agency offering full time care and combining the two jobs.

[raven]

 IIRC, Frasier wasn't intending the position to be a live in and he didn't want to give up his office.  I'm not sure but I think the job was originally intended as part time, but I could be making that up in my head.    By doing housekeeping, cooking, laundry, etc as well as the PT, Daphne made herself indispensable; justifiably full time and so more convenient to have her live there.  She would naturally think she was the one to answer the door. 

From what little we saw, the guys did a decent job of respecting boundaries and when they didn't, Daphne put them in their place - well, just Frasier, when he objected to Joe sleeping over.  

There was an episode where Frasier gave her 2 weeks vacation so she could see her family and take a relaxing trip, though really, she should have been entitled to more vacation. 

I liked that they did show her relaxing or going on dates or out with a friend, that she had a social life besides the Cranes. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, raven said:

 IIRC, Frasier wasn't intending the position to be a live in and he didn't want to give up his office.  I'm not sure but I think the job was originally intended as part time, but I could be making that up in my head.   

Yes, this is all correct.

5 minutes ago, raven said:

From what little we saw, the guys did a decent job of respecting boundaries and when they didn't, Daphne put them in their place - well, just Frasier, when he objected to Joe sleeping over.  

He also snuck in her room a few times :)

[chessiegal]

4 minutes ago, raven said:

 IIRC, Frasier wasn't intending the position to be a live in and he didn't want to give up his office.

Yes. There was some miscommunication between the agency that sent Daphne. Frasier intended it to be just PT, but Daphne was told it was live-in.

[ljenkins782]

28 minutes ago, raven said:

From what little we saw, the guys did a decent job of respecting boundaries and when they didn't, Daphne put them in their place - well, just Frasier, when he objected to Joe sleeping over.  

I just watched that one today, that was so uncomfortable. 

Although I think Frasier was out of line for trying to restrict her activities, I think if I were Joe, I'd feel slightly weird staying overnight at my girlfriend's employer's house. I get that there were circumstances that limited where they could go and I don't think Frasier should have been so puritanical about what was or was not happening in Daphne's space, there's still something about him staying over that seems slightly off to me.

[jird]

2 hours ago, raven said:

From what little we saw, the guys did a decent job of respecting boundaries and when they didn't, Daphne put them in their place - well, just Frasier, when he objected to Joe sleeping over

Although that changed by the time Donny came around.

There were a lot of sleepovers in that condo. I have never seen so many people comfortably hanging around in their bathrobes in front of (practically) strangers.

[Annber03]

23 hours ago, voiceover said:

Last night was “An Affair to Forget”,  featuring the scene where Niles shows up to confront the married fencing instructor. Frasier translates Niles’ speech to Spanish, Marta tells Gunther auf Deutsch.  Then Niles is forced to throw down: “En garde!”

Frasier: “Oh yes, Niles, that’s just what we need: a fourth language!”

Another one of my all-time favorite episodes. Just great from start to finish. 

(On a related note, I was watching some episodes of an old cartoon I liked as a kid a while back, and there was an episode where a couple characters had a fencing battle. There was also an episode of "Get Smart" where Max faced off with a bad guy in a fencing duel, and then this episode of "Frasier"...

I'm starting to feel like that can't be mere coincidence and I must just have a weird sort of thing for TV shows where characters get to face off by having a fencing duel :p.)

2 hours ago, jird said:

There were a lot of sleepovers in that condo. I have never seen so many people comfortably hanging around in their bathrobes in front of (practically) strangers.

Right? I always wonder how much they all heard whenever one of them had someone over for the night. If I had a boyfriend, even if I knew said boyfriend's parents were totally fine with me staying over, I'd still feel pretty weird about parading around in my bathrobe in front of them like that. Especially if we're still in the early stages of dating. If we'd been together for a significant amount of time, or if we were married and staying over, meaning we were at the point where I felt totally comfortable around his family, that might be a different story. But otherwise...

Regarding Daphne always answering the door, I always liked that moment in "Visions of Daphne" where she tells the Cranes that Donny's at the door and asks one of them to get it. They all wind up just kinda looking at each other awkwardly, and she finally snaps, "Well, you've seen me do it enough times, you just turn the handle and pull!" 

Backing up a bit to respond to this...

On 9/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

What are some episodes you always skip?  I was reading about Frank Sinatra and I realized that I never rewatch the episode where Martin sends him a song because I can't bear how sad he is.  @Annber03I'd love to know if you have any like this, because you seem to be able to watch any episode that I can't 😄

I honestly don't know that there are any episodes I flat out refuse to watch. There's some that aren't top favorites of mine, but I can't think of any I flat out refuse to watch because of x reason or whatever. Because even in the ones that aren't my favorites, there's still usually something about the episode I enjoy, even if it's just a scene or two or whatever. I think the closest example I could think of to answer this question would be that "Slow Tango in South Seattle" episode, mainly 'cause the storyline with Frasier and his piano teacher would play VERY differently today, so, yeah. 

But even that episode is still a perfect example of my above comment about finding stuff to like all the same, though, 'cause there's still some good elements in it. I love Niles' "Rachmaninovs" line, and I do love Frasier being snarky as hell about that guy's book and his oh-so-purple prose-y writing style XD. 

Another episode that's never been a particular favorite is "Motor Skills", simply because it centers around cars and I just...don't care about storylines focused on cars, LOL. I do like Frasier and Niles' teacher, though, and the whole bit of them goofing off in class is fun :D. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:23 AM, Annber03 said:

I honestly don't know that there are any episodes I flat out refuse to watch. There's some that aren't top favorites of mine, but I can't think of any I flat out refuse to watch because of x reason or whatever. Because even in the ones that aren't my favorites, there's still usually something about the episode I enjoy, even if it's just a scene or two or whatever. I think the closest example I could think of to answer this question would be that "Slow Tango in South Seattle" episode, mainly 'cause the storyline with Frasier and his piano teacher would play VERY differently today, so, yeah. 

But even that episode is still a perfect example of my above comment about finding stuff to like all the same, though, 'cause there's still some good elements in it. I love Niles' "Rachmaninovs" line, and I do love Frasier being snarky as hell about that guy's book and his oh-so-purple prose-y writing style XD. 

Another episode that's never been a particular favorite is "Motor Skills", simply because it centers around cars and I just...don't care about storylines focused on cars, LOL. I do like Frasier and Niles' teacher, though, and the whole bit of them goofing off in class is fun :D. 

Wow!  There are maaaaaaaaany episodes that I don't watch in my rewatches, especially during Seasons 8-10.  I wonder if there's even episodes in there that I haven't fully seen!  And I barely watch the last half of Season 11.

Good point about Slow Tango, that hadn't even occurred to me, but I barely watch that one too.  That "humour" about teachers and students sleeping together is so played out.  They had that on "Friends" too.

I actually do like Motor Skills, but that's an episode I skipped for years and only got into recently.  I love Niles and Frasier being the bad boys in class lol.  

Edited September 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[MisterGlass]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:54 PM, voiceover said:

Last night was “An Affair to Forget”,  featuring the scene where Niles shows up to confront the married fencing instructor. Frasier translates Niles’ speech to Spanish, Marta tells Gunther auf Deutsch.  Then Niles is forced to throw down: “En garde!”

Frasier: “Oh yes, Niles, that’s just what we need: a fourth language!”

I love this scene, but I always wonder, and sorry if it's been asked before, but is anyone else familiar with the version from I Love Lucy?  The background is that while traveling in France, Lucy was arrested for paying with counterfeit money.

[Annber03]

I don't know about here, but I have seen other people point out the "I Love Lucy" comparison over at the "Frasier" subreddit. Maybe they were trying to do an homage? Or maybe it's just yet another example of how influential "I Love Lucy" really was on the comedy landscape :D. 

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wow!  There are maaaaaaaaany episodes that I don't watch in my rewatches, especially during Seasons 8-10.  I wonder if there's even episodes in there that I haven't fully seen!  And I barely watch the last half of Season 11.

I will admit to possibly being a bit of an outlier in that regard, as I tend to have that attitude towards ALL my favorite shows :p. Sure, with every series I like, there'll be seasons and episodes I'll love more than others, and when I'm watching DVDs or watching via streaming, I'll tend to focus on watching my personal favorite episodes.

But yeah,  even if an episode that isn't my favorite is on and I happen to come across it, I'll still watch it., 'cause hey, at least it's still an episode from a show I like, so...:).

Quote

Good point about Slow Tango, that hadn't even occurred to me, but I barely watch that one too.  That "humour" about teachers and students sleeping together is so played out.  They had that on "Friends" too.

Funny, that's the second time now someone's noted that "Frasier" and "Friends" had similar storylines. I was talking with a friend elsewhere about both shows and they mentioned another example of that happening (we were talking a bit about the episode "Mixed Doubles" and she noted that there was an episode of "Friends" that had a similar plot, with Rachel dating a guy who was very much like Ross :p). Either the writers from those shows were taking notes from each other or those are just common scenarios that are ripe for comedy, one of the two :D. 

Quote

I actually do like Motor Skills, but that's an episode I skipped for years and only got into recently.  I love Niles and Frasier being the bad boys in class lol.  

"We're not in trouble. We are trouble." And passing notes in French. Dorks, the both of them XD. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

22 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Funny, that's the second time now someone's noted that "Frasier" and "Friends" had similar storylines. I was talking with a friend elsewhere about both shows and they mentioned another example of that happening (we were talking a bit about the episode "Mixed Doubles" and she noted that there was an episode of "Friends" that had a similar plot, with Rachel dating a guy who was very much like Ross :p). Either the writers from those shows were taking notes from each other or those are just common scenarios that are ripe for comedy, one of the two :D. 

Some of those sitcom tropes drive me crazy by now.  

Off the top of my head there's

1)  Sketchy Pool Bar

Somebody is stuck at a sketchy pool bar and has to hustle their way out of being beat up by thugs.  Daphne on "Frasier", "The Fresh Prince", "Who's the Boss", "Rules of Engagement".

2)  Somebody suddenly has to learn how to dance and someone else has to teach them.

Now this one drives me CRAZY.  Because it's so over the top convoluted, it's so silly, and EVERY SHOW FEELS THE NEED TO DO IT.  Daphne teaching Niles on "Frasier", "Friends", "Will and Grace".  "Home Economics", an entirely NEW show that started around 2020 (?) had this plot on and my eyes rolled out of my head.  I can't believe it!  Seriously?  Write something new!

3)  Murder Mystery Party (I actually like this one)

Frasier, Saved by the Bell, The Golden Girls (Classic ep)

Also Roz being promiscuous and Frasier constantly making cracks about it definitely reminds me of Blanche on "The Golden Girls".   That's why Sex and the City was so revolutionary.  The sex obsessed character Samantha was not the butt of jokes (well definitely not as much) but rather glamourized and women idolized her. Apparently the head of NBC also had a problem with Monica's promiscuity on "Friends".

Edited September 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Annber03]

54 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Some of those sitcom tropes drive me crazy by now.  

Off the top of my head there's

1)  Sketchy Pool Bar

Somebody is stuck at a sketchy pool bar and has to hustle their way out of being beat up by thugs.  Daphne on "Frasier", "The Fresh Prince", "Who's the Boss", "Rules of Engagement".

2)  Somebody suddenly has to learn how to dance and someone else has to teach them.

Now this one drives me CRAZY.  Because it's so over the top convoluted, it's so silly, and EVERY SHOW FEELS THE NEED TO DO IT.  Daphne teaching Niles on "Frasier", "Friends", "Will and Grace".  "Home Economics", an entirely NEW show that started around 2020 (?) had this plot on and my eyes rolled out of my head.  I can't believe it!  Seriously?  Write something new!

3)  Murder Mystery Party (I actually like this one)

Frasier, Saved by the Bell, The Golden Girls (Classic ep)

Also Roz being promiscuous and Frasier constantly making cracks about it definitely reminds me of Blanche on "The Golden Girls".   That's why Sex and the City was so revolutionary.  The sex obsessed character Samantha was not the butt of jokes (well definitely not as much) but rather glamourized and women idolized her. Apparently the head of NBC also had a problem with Monica's promiscuity on "Friends".

Funny you mention "Rules of Engagement", I got into that show late last year :p. 

I love the trope of someone having to learn how to dance. There was a hilarious episode of "Wings" that featured that trope, and of course, on "Frasier", we got "Moon Dance" out of that, and that's another one of my all-time favorite episodes, so...:D. If you want an opportunity to put a favorite/potential ship together, it's certainly a good trope to play with, LOL. But I can see where, by this point, it could feel a bit tired and could use a new spin on the concept, at the very least. 

One of the many great things about Roz was how she always called Frasier out on his double standard regarding their respective dating lives, and never apologized for her interest in dating around and having flings and whatnot. She was an example of how the tides were turning a bit in the '90s in regards to attitudes on that issue, thankfully so, and I think characters like her helped pave the way for the kinds of women and shows you mention that came later.

Not to say that there aren't still people like Frasier who employ that double standard line of thinking out there, of course, there are, but at least there's more pushback against them now. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Funny you mention "Rules of Engagement", I got into that show late last year :p. 

That's so great!  I'm glad to hear it!  That's another favourite show of mine!  

[ljenkins782]

On 9/7/2022 at 9:26 PM, jird said:

Although that changed by the time Donny came around.

There were a lot of sleepovers in that condo. I have never seen so many people comfortably hanging around in their bathrobes in front of (practically) strangers.

Yes, that's why I find so weird. Like when they each have a guest and everyone is sitting around the breakfast table in their silky robes, that's so foreign to me. If I were staying over at someone's house and there were other people around, I'd put my regular clothes on before leaving the room.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think the show dealt with all of that discomfort first, though.  Remember the Season 1 episode where Martin has a woman over and Frasier loses his mind, and then tells EVERYONE ON THE RADIO ABOUT IT?  It's like he short circuited.  Maybe 7 seasons later they really were just that comfortable.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I’m watching the two part episode where Frasier has three dates over three days and Martin and Sherry are having relationship issues right now, and my GOD! I know Sherry is supposed to be brassy, but she’s so freaking obnoxious here. Verbal diarrhea with every interaction. Wasn’t she supposedly a waitress at some point? How does one work in hospitality without the ability to READ THE FREAKING ROOM?!

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I’m watching the two part episode where Frasier has three dates over three days and Martin and Sherry are having relationship issues right now, and my GOD! I know Sherry is supposed to be brassy, but she’s so freaking obnoxious here. Verbal diarrhea with every interaction. Wasn’t she supposedly a waitress at some point? How does one work in hospitality without the ability to READ THE FREAKING ROOM?!

She's so horrible to Frasier in that episode.

I love that episode how Frasier sets up that same sexy jazzy music for the dates.  LOL.  

I love all of the Sherry episodes because I can't help it, the way Niles and Frasier reacts to her is so funny.  She's awful to Frasier though.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Annber03]

36 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I love that episode how Frasier sets up that same sexy jazzy music for the dates.  LOL.  

I love all of the Sherry episodes because I can't help it, the way Niles and Frasier reacts to her is so funny.  She's awful to Frasier though.

When she says for a hundred bucks she could drown herself in her favorite perfume, and Niles looks at Frasier and says, "I've got sixty..." XD. 

I agree that Sherry's not someone you'd want to trust your secrets to or anything like that - she's horrible with privacy. But I kind of get someone like her working as a waitress - she likes to talk to people and get to know them. Is she often nosy as hell about it? Sure. But I bet she did very well at connecting with customers. I think she worked at a bar at one point, too, wasn't that how she and Martin met? She'd be the perfect sort of bartender, she'd know how to get customers to let down their guard and open up about their troubles. 

So yeah, I totally get that Sherry is often A LOT, but I liked her anyway. She reminds me a bit of some of my relatives, and I liked her relationship with Martin. The episode where they break up is so sad, because it's clear they really do care about and love each other, and yet you totally understand why they each feel the way they do about the prospect of marrying again. It's a really well done breakup scene.

As for Frasier and his jazzy music, I love when he turns it on and opens the door, only to find either Daphne or Sherry or someone else who's not his date standing there :p. And then he's about to do his whole, "To...possibilities" toast to Sherry and is like, "Oh, what the hell am I doing?" XD. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As for Frasier and his jazzy music, I love when he turns it on and opens the door, only to find either Daphne or Sherry or someone else who's not his date standing there :p. And then he's about to do his whole, "To...possibilities" toast to Sherry and is like, "Oh, what the hell am I doing?" XD. 

So damn funny. And I know Niles and Frasier are such snobs, but the dichotomy of them versus Sherry is SO brilliant. My brother and I definitely do those snarky comments and haughty glances at each other when people act ridiculous.  It's so my humour.

I can't find the clip online. I always mix up when Frasier does the sexy music. Is it "Dial M for Murder" (Martin collapses at the end), or "Three Dates and a Breakup" (Sherry ruins three dates), or is it both?

It's also funny how they named her Sherry, Frasier and Niles's favourite drink.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Annber03]

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I can't find the clip online. I always mix up when Frasier does the sexy music. Is it "Dial M for Murder" (Martin collapses at the end), or "Three Dates and a Breakup" (Sherry ruins three dates), or is it both?

It's also funny how they named her Sherry, Frasier and Niles's favourite drink.

That is perhaps the best detail of the whole Sherry storyline - take something they love and attach its name to someone who drives them crazy :p. I love it in the episode after Sherry and Martin have that big fight and Sherry leaves, Niles comes over and Frasier's all, "I'd offer you a sherry, but I'm fresh out!" and he and Niles actually chest bump :p. 

I think the sexy music thing is done in both episodes, if I recall rightly. And "Dial M for Murder" also has that moment at the end when Frasier's date's about to step off the elevator, only to see Martin sprawled on the floor and Frasier yelling at him to quit making a fuss and get up :p. Oh, Frasier...you and your absolutely horrible timing with dates....

[voiceover]

I caught the last 10 minutes of “Ham Radio” tonight, and as I was *shrieking with laughter, I couldn’t help but wish for all of my fellow Frasier-posters here to assemble at some theater and watch this ep together! and a la Rocky Horror Picture Show midnight audiences, we’d chorus along with the actors, and use props (Wing’s hat bell) to underscore the action.

Can we please do this before I die?  Let’s figure out a location that works for everybody.

[Annber03]

I'd be down for that :D. My mom and I were watching that episode and laughing at it, too.

[ljenkins782]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

When she says for a hundred bucks she could drown herself in her favorite perfume, and Niles looks at Frasier and says, "I've got sixty..." XD. 

I agree that Sherry's not someone you'd want to trust your secrets to or anything like that - she's horrible with privacy. But I kind of get someone like her working as a waitress - she likes to talk to people and get to know them. Is she often nosy as hell about it? Sure. But I bet she did very well at connecting with customers. I think she worked at a bar at one point, too, wasn't that how she and Martin met? She'd be the perfect sort of bartender, she'd know how to get customers to let down their guard and open up about their troubles. 

So yeah, I totally get that Sherry is often A LOT, but I liked her anyway. She reminds me a bit of some of my relatives, and I liked her relationship with Martin. The episode where they break up is so sad, because it's clear they really do care about and love each other, and yet you totally understand why they each feel the way they do about the prospect of marrying again. It's a really well done breakup scene.

Agreed about Sherry, I can totally see her as a waitress or bartender because she's so chatty and the thing about a bartender or waitress is that you only have to be around them for an hour or so. A little Sherry goes a long way, but in short bursts, she could probably be fun.

Quote

As for Frasier and his jazzy music, I love when he turns it on and opens the door, only to find either Daphne or Sherry or someone else who's not his date standing there :p. And then he's about to do his whole, "To...possibilities" toast to Sherry and is like, "Oh, what the hell am I doing?" XD. 

The way he carefully arranges his face into that half-smile expression and bobs his head around in a faux-casual kind of dance only to stop short when he realizes it's not his date always cracks me up.