Everybody Loves Raymond - General Discussion

[ByTor]

23 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

After Ray explains why his and Debra's love is like Cream of Wheat: "Hands off girls, he's mine."

I love how she so casually says it while she's putting honey in her tea.

[WinnieWinkle]

Marie: No one here means to pressure him. But you know something, Robby? You're not getting any younger. And I read, you know, that as men get older, their sperm production...
Ray: Okay!
Robert: Ma, Ma, Ma, Ma!
Ray: Back it up.
Marie: Please, it's science.

I use this all the time - and you have to say it exactly the way Marie did.

[WinnieWinkle]

Just watched the first season episode where Ray replaces the diamond in Debra's ring.  So many plot holes!  But the one that jumps out at me is what kind of jeweler wouldn't have known that was a real diamond and not "glassette"?  I think I may have watched ELR too many times I am starting to nitpick!

[ByTor]

@@WinnieWinkle I know exactly what you mean! I was watching that one where Marie walked in on Amy & Robert having sex in Ray's basement. Robert runs upstairs & talks to Marie for a few minutes. Why, then does Amy come running up with Robert's pants still on? She had plenty of time to put her own clothes back on...which is why that gag doesn't work for me. It also bugs me when Amy says "Marie, it's not what you think!!!" Oh no? Then what was it? 🤪

[WinnieWinkle]

There are two later season ones that I actually really like but both have me going "uh, ok".  The Angry Sex episode where Ray learns that things get hot in the bedroom when Debra is angry at Marie - it took how many years for this to dawn on him?  Ray isn't the brightest penny in the drawer but even Ray must have noticed that Debra gets angry, especially with Marie. a lot!  The other episode is the Blabbermouths one where we learn that when Debra is upset she burps.  Debra has been getting upset about something or another since the first episode of the show and this never came up before 🙂 ??

[WinnieWinkle]

I am just watching the Ray Home Alone episode and so identified with Ray when he is nervous about being alone and gets up and closes his bedroom door "Oh great now I can't hear the murderer" and opens it again.  I am always conflicted like that when I'm alone at night too 😄.

[KLovestoShop]

I swear, if incest were legal, Marie would sleep with Raymond. She has such a sick attachment, like stroking him, and gazing adoringly at him. It’s something that’s always bothered me about her. 

[Snow Apple]

13 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I swear, if incest were legal, Marie would sleep with Raymond. She has such a sick attachment, like stroking him, and gazing adoringly at him. It’s something that’s always bothered me about her. 

I’m sure Debra has the same thought.

Remember the last episode when Marie jumps in bed and Debra make a comment like “I knew this would happen someday.”

[WinnieWinkle]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Debra knew how Marie was before she married Raymond, and yet it was her idea to live right across the street from Marie.  Raymond didn't want to live across the street from his mom, that was Debra's idea. 

In the flashback episodes I think we see that Debra didn't really know what she was letting herself in for!  She saw Marie and Frank as caring and loving people.  I love the episode where Amy finally gets an idea of what Marie is really like and has this horrorstruck look on her face and Debra says. "I remember that look.  That used to be me."

[Guest]

11 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

In the flashback episodes I think we see that Debra didn't really know what she was letting herself in for!  She saw Marie and Frank as caring and loving people.  I love the episode where Amy finally gets an idea of what Marie is really like and has this horrorstruck look on her face and Debra says. "I remember that look.  That used to be me."

You would think that Marie bringing lasagna and a priest to your apartment to try to keep you from having sex would have been a clue, but…..

[WinnieWinkle]

19 minutes ago, deaja said:

You would think that Marie bringing lasagna and a priest to your apartment to try to keep you from having sex would have been a clue, but…..

I actually really dislike that episode so much and that's exactly why.  All kinds of inappropriate (to say the least!!!) and yet they write it in such a way that Debra, at the time, sees that kind of interference as understandable.  No.  Just no.  But I do love the line from Fr Hubley "I was told there would be lasagna."  We use that all the time around my place!

Edited June 27, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[WinnieWinkle]

Sad ELR news - Max Rosenthal died yesterday.  He was Phil Rosenthal's dad but also appeared in several episodes of ELR (along with Ray's dad Albert) as a pal of Frank's from the lodge.  I follow Phil Rosenthal on FB and he talked about his father a lot, he sounded like a lovely man.  And now, officially, all the grandparents connected to ELR have died 😔.

 

[Harry24]

On 6/26/2021 at 9:46 PM, WinnieWinkle said:

I actually really dislike that episode ... But I do love the line from Fr Hubley "I was told there would be lasagna."  

Any episode with Father Hubley has my vote as a must-see.  

[readster]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:03 PM, icemiser69 said:

The only thing that I can make out of it is that perhaps Debra thought her relationship with Marie would change for the better after Debra married Ray. 

That goes along with the same logic where two people get married, and then after they get married, they expect to be able to change certain aspects of each others personalities.  That doesn't usually work out too well for anyone.

It also leads to the problems of how each is raised. When you are raised in different environments with parents are completely different types and how they treat their families. People get in their heads that's how it should be. I mean Debra was so crushed by her parents divorcing so late in her life and her sister deciding to become a nun. It was crushing to Debra and yet couldn't understand why her parents liked Frank and Marie so much. It was pretty much, they would have BEEN Frank and Marie if they weren't so busy putting on a show for their parents to be "the perfect little family". Sadly, for Frank and Marie, two who shouldn't have been anything than a brief relationship until "opps, here is Robert." Who they then basically blamed their lives being utter hell of a marriage, but "loved him anyhow". Just showed the classic: "Don't do it for the children, be honest."

[VCRTracking]

After seeing this pic of Ray with his real life wife and daughter I will no longer doubt the casting of someone who looks like Patricia Heaton as his wife nor a blonde girl for his daughter on the show again!  It was so spot on!

Edited July 28, 2021 by VCRTracking

[ByTor]

My niece is the best! She had a t-shirt made for me with my most quoted ELR line (from The Angry Family)... 

On 7/27/2021 at 9:28 PM, VCRTracking said:

After seeing this pic of Ray with his real life wife and daughter I will no longer doubt the casting of someone who looks like Patricia Heaton as his wife nor a blonde girl for his daughter on the show again!  It was so spot on!

Oh, and speaking of The Angry Family, Raymond's real-life wife is one of the parents he's standing next to when the kids are reading their stories.

[qtpye]

Some interesting thoughts

[WinnieWinkle]

^ Very interesting @qtpye!!

I know a lot of viewers dismiss Debra as shrewish but I never really bought that.  She is reacting, often angrily, to the impossible people in her life.  Notably Marie and Ray.  If she wasn't angry a lot of the time she wouldn't be normal IMO.   As Debra herself said "It's hard being a single parent."

Edited August 21, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[freeser]

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Ray and Marie weren't hiding who they were, and they shouldn't have had to change who they were just to make Debra happy.  Ray and Marie just aren't that deep.  If Debra wants to be angry, she ought be angry at herself for marrying Ray.

I am mostly on Debra's side in the majority of circumstances.  Ray is a lazy mama's boy who basically got married so he could have sex on a regular basis.  He does not really care about matters concerning his children or Debra.  He wants to watch TV, golf and eat whatever he wants.  

However, I do agree that Debra should have known better than to have married Ray.  The meeting with Father Hubley when Ray was so disinterested that he could not really say why he wanted to marry Debra, claimed that he had no thoughts on whether or not they would have children, etc. should have been one of many clues that he was not the right person for Debra to choose to spend the rest of her life with.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, freeser said:

I am mostly on Debra's side in the majority of circumstances.  Ray is a lazy mama's boy who basically got married so he could have sex on a regular basis.  He does not really care about matters concerning his children or Debra.  He wants to watch TV, golf and eat whatever he wants.  

However, I do agree that Debra should have known better than to have married Ray.  The meeting with Father Hubley when Ray was so disinterested that he could not really say why he wanted to marry Debra, claimed that he had no thoughts on whether or not they would have children, etc. should have been one of many clues that he was not the right person for Debra to choose to spend the rest of her life with.  

One of the things that the video points out is that the shrew wife angle is often used to make a terrible husband more sympathetic.

The wife might be technically saying all the right things but she is so unpleasant that you are automatically on the husband's side.

At first, I had little sympathy for Debra. I wondered why did she marry such an obvious Mama's boy? Then I really lost a lot of sympathy when I found out that it was HER idea to move across from her in-laws.

Her reasoning was sound:

• She was having twins and needed help
• They could get a house for the price of an apartment in the city
• Free babysitting

However, the whole episode plainly states that it is Debra's fault that her life is so miserable. because she chose to live down the street from Frank and Marie.

The blame for the whole ridiculous premise of the show was put on Debra's shoulders.

I also hated that Debra's mother was often painted to be horrible because she had an interesting life going to art galleries/traveling and did not obsess about her grandkids 24/7.

I have kids and take joy in being a mother. However, the truth is that if you raise your kids correctly they will go on to live their own lives. I live 500 miles from my mother and this is the closest I have ever lived to her. I did not want to be so far away but my livelihood just took me far away.

If you have no other identity then being a mother, you might not have a great sense of self in your later years.

[WinnieWinkle]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

One of the things that the video points out is that the shrew wife angle is often used to make a terrible husband more sympathetic.

One of the things I've always disliked about ELR is the way Debra will be angry about something that she has a perfect right to be angry over - example Ray not voting for her in that school election - but they always seem to manage to have Debra do or say something "mean" that somehow makes them even.  I'd never thought of it from the POV of an attempt to make a terrible husband more sympathetic but that's exactly what happens!

Edited August 22, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

One of the things I've always disliked about ELR is the way Debra will be angry about something that she has a perfect right to be angry over - example Ray not voting for her in that school election - but they always seem to manage to have Debra do or say something "mean" that somehow makes them even.  I'd never thought of it from the POV of an attempt to make a terrible husband more sympathetic but that's exactly what happens!

One of the worst episodes ever was the one where Ray tells her that the PTA moms are talking badly about Debra and saying she dresses too provocatively. This is a lie that Ray tells because:

• He does not want to be a part of the PTA
• He feels that Debra dresses too nicely to be with him.

Debra comes down in a very sexy outfit to the next PTA meeting. Everyone is shocked and they even have Frank and Robert come over to drool over her.

Here Ray is totally in the wrong but Debra's reaction assures that she is the one that is hated and humiliated.

The episodes are always written in a way that she comes off much worse than her husband (and totally unlikeable) though her husband is the one who is acting badly.

The video said the "shrew" role upholds the husband while secretly putting the woman "in her place".

It is like the trope was deliberately written for Incels.

Edited August 22, 2021 by qtpye

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Ray shouldn't have had kids if he wasn't interested in getting involved in raising them.

Since he did end up fathering kids, he should have been more involved in the day to day raising of them before they became school age. 

After the kids became school age and were spending full days at school, Debra had a lot more free time on her hands.  So much so, that she attempted to go back to work, and because she was such a jerk, she was fired. 

Ray was holding down a full time job, and yet Debra had minimal things to do at home.   So when Debra starts going off on Ray for not getting more involved in the kids lives during their grade school years, I don't have a lot of sympathy for her.  Debra had a lot of free time to handle those situations.  That doesn't mean Ray shouldn't have been involved at all, what it does mean is that Debra had more free time to deal with raising their kids.

Debra could have gotten off of her ass and helped paint the house.

It is a good thing Ray and Debra married each other.  I think if they had married other individuals, that would have resulted in failed marriage after failed marriage for both of them.

It is true.

Debra is unlikable and I almost hated her sometimes.

One of the things that makes Ray more sympathetic is that he is a great provider, which is the traditional role of the man. On the other hand, Debra is a crappy housekeeper, a terrible cook, and can barely keep control of her children.

I thought Debra was very lucky that she had a husband who made enough money that she could stay home with her 3 beautiful children. Long Island is expensive when compared to the rest of the country.

I have two theories about both Ray and Debra as to why they are so unhappy.

Ray did not have children for himself. He had children to please his mother. He also expected that like his father, he would take almost no part in the child-rearing and household chores. I was shocked in the episode where he would not let Debra give away the baby things because he wanted to live open the possibility of having more kids.  It's like dude, you don't like the three you got.

Debra probably grew up in an upper-middle-class house that at least had a part-time housekeeper. We know her parents are part of the Country Club Set. She is not used to the strain of having to pick up after 3 little kids and a slovenly husband. She looks at herself like a sophisticated career gal, not a housewife.

Again, in order to maintain the premise of the show, they always made Debra the asshole.

Debra goes back to work and loses her job in one day because she is really that stupid and thought Professor Pete-Za was worth fighting for.

Debra gets a reliable young woman to help her out with the kids and fires her because the kids like the girl much more than Debra.

It made you hate Debra more because she never took agency for her own decisions which is what makes her a great example of the shrew trope.

 

[WinnieWinkle]

I never saw Ray and Debra as being unhappy people.  Ray is written as the eternal pessimist and Debra certainly has been frustrated by Ray's lack of concern for the house and the kids and, of course Marie would drive anyone crazy - but even so I don't see unhappiness.  If that were the case I couldn't watch this show!  As others have noted this, to me, is my comfort food show.  I watch ELR to relax and retreat from the troubles of my life and of the world.  I don't see how I could do that if I thought the two main characters were unlikable and written as unhappy.

Edited August 22, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I never saw Ray and Debra as being unhappy people.  Ray is written as the eternal pessimist and Debra certainly has been frustrated by Ray's lack of concern for the house and the kids and, of course Marie would drive anyone crazy - but even so I don't see unhappiness.  If that were the case I couldn't watch this show!  As others have noted this, to me, is my comfort food show.  I watch ELR to relax and retreat from the troubles of my life and of the world.  I don't see how I could do that if I thought the two main characters were unlikable and written as unhappy.

The funny thing is that I have been married 15 years and I thank God my husband and I never talk to each other like Ray and Debra (or Frank and Marie).

We know many longed married couples and all of them have much more respect for each other than Ray/Debra.

The ones that did have the Barrones' dynamic ended up divorced.

At the end of the day, it is just a funny show with great actors built around a stupid premise/ cliché premise of the feuding couple.

I do think Ray and Debra love each other but I do not think they liked each other very much.

Edited August 22, 2021 by qtpye

[HyeChaps]

I don't know why they had her do poorly at the job.  

Before she had children, she did well and supported herself at a good responsible job.

[WinnieWinkle]

26 minutes ago, HyeChaps said:

I don't know why they had her do poorly at the job.  

 

It was so stupid.  I did sympathize with Debra - been there, done that in terms of going back to work after being home with kids - but there were way better ways to handle that then making Debra so unreasonable on her first freaking day.  I mean obviously they had no intention of having Debra work, although 2 days a week wouldn't have interfered with the show at all -Ray, Robert and Amy all work full-time and manage to be home most of the time!

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, WinnieWinkle said:

It was so stupid.  I did sympathize with Debra - been there, done that in terms of going back to work after being home with kids - but there were way better ways to handle that then making Debra so unreasonable on her first freaking day.  I mean obviously they had no intention of having Debra work, although 2 days a week wouldn't have interfered with the show at all -Ray, Robert and Amy all work full-time and manage to be home most of the time!

 

30 minutes ago, HyeChaps said:

I don't know why they had her do poorly at the job.  

Before she had children, she did well and supported herself at a good responsible job.

She had a very nice life before she met Raymond.

It would have not hurt the show at all for Debra to have a part time job. It could have opened up new storylines with her trying to juggle work and taking care of her family.

Not only is she made to look incompetent by getting fired her first day. She  also lied to Raymond and said her boss freaked out because she tried to fax a permission slip to Ally’s school.

The show loves to make Debra look like the worst when she really is not because she is written to be so unlikable.

Also, why did the house look like a hell hole when Debra had only been at work one day? Don’t tell me Marie would not have been by to clean.

[WinnieWinkle]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Also, why did the house look like a hell hole when Debra had only been at work one day? Don’t tell me Marie would not have been by to clean.

If they ever explained who looked after the kids that day I must have missed it.  And since I have watched most of these shows many many times I really don't think I did!  You are left to assume that it was Ray watching the kids which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!

[Guest]

I think she and Ray were both unreasonable in different ways at different times, so there really was no "good vs bad" set up. One example is when Ally isn't sleeping. She insists Ray take a night, and he wants to have Ally tough it out for the night. Debra disagrees, but it is something suggested by a lot of parenting books. So Debra overrides him and sleeps with Ally.  But then she's tired the next day, so he (sneakily) comes up with something that would have worked for both of them - Marie coming over so both of them could sleep.  Obviously, he knew Debra wouldn't like it so he deceived her which was totally wrong. But she was wrong for telling him to handle it and then insisting he handle it only the way she wanted it handled.

Same when Michael was refusing to go to school.  She unilaterally decided that what she had decided to do was more important than him being able to work (when he was the sole breadwinner) but then wanted him to handle things exactly her way. 

I've seen this in so many real life situations where a parent wants their co-parent to step up but does not want to give up an inch of control and it always leads to fights.  So I thought the show was realistic and neither was always right or always wrong.

[WinnieWinkle]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

So I thought the show was realistic and neither was always right or always wrong.

I liked this as well and in the early years of the show I thought they handled this really well.

One thing that bothered me more in the last few years of the show was the way Ray became such a horndog to the point where he didn't care anymore what impact Marie's meddling would have on Debra or on the kids.  The Angry Sex episode where Marie wants to take the boys to get a haircut comes to mind.  Ray doesn't care at all that Marie is insulting their parenting (well mainly Debra's of course) or that Debra is insulted and hurt.  All he wants is sex.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I liked this as well and in the early years of the show I thought they handled this really well.

One thing that bothered me more in the last few years of the show was the way Ray became such a horndog to the point where he didn't care anymore what impact Marie's meddling would have on Debra or on the kids.  The Angry Sex episode where Marie wants to take the boys to get a haircut comes to mind.  Ray doesn't care at all that Marie is insulting their parenting (well mainly Debra's of course) or that Debra is insulted and hurt.  All he wants is sex.

Yep. They all became so over the top as the show went on. The first seasons, Debra seemed to enjoy Raymond some but by the end, she didn’t. The first season he helped with the kids but was kind of incompetent at it (ie took the wrong twin to the dr). By the end he didn’t. And Marie went from an overbearing mom to an evil plotter. Robert went from being jealous of Ray’s life to lusting after Debra.
 

I still enjoyed the later seasons but think they took things too far.

[qtpye]

54 minutes ago, deaja said:

Yep. They all became so over the top as the show went on. The first seasons, Debra seemed to enjoy Raymond some but by the end, she didn’t. The first season he helped with the kids but was kind of incompetent at it (ie took the wrong twin to the dr). By the end he didn’t. And Marie went from an overbearing mom to an evil plotter. Robert went from being jealous of Ray’s life to lusting after Debra.
 

I still enjoyed the later seasons but think they took things too far.

In an earlier season Debra made a fish for Thanksgiving. Marie put up a fit but in the end, she did compliment Debra's cooking and said that Frank never eats her fish.

Marie would never compliment Debra like that in the later season.

However, it is typical in sitcoms that over-the-top traits get exaggerated until the character is just a caricature of themselves.

[Guest]

And not only a fish but made a whole Thanksgiving dinner from scratch! That's not easy. It went from portraying Debra as a competent but probably normal cook (ie someone who cooked for her family but it wasn't a passion of hers) while Marie was someone who delighted in cooking, had the old family recipes passed down, etc. to Debra not knowing how to make anything but lemon chicken in contrast to Marie.

[ByTor]

On 8/23/2021 at 6:56 PM, WinnieWinkle said:

If they ever explained who looked after the kids that day I must have missed it. 

Debra said that the twins were in preschool 5 days a week & Ally was older, so I guess they were in school & Marie watched them afterward, as she said she would since they became "latchkey children." Which causes that horrible mess to make even LESS sense!

On 8/23/2021 at 6:11 PM, HyeChaps said:

I don't know why they had her do poorly at the job.  

Before she had children, she did well and supported herself at a good responsible job.

I think the show didn't do a great job at this, but I think they were trying to make a point that dealing with Marie caused Debra to become less reasonable in her own life.

On 8/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, qtpye said:

Debra comes down in a very sexy outfit to the next PTA meeting. Everyone is shocked and they even have Frank and Robert come over to drool over her.

That is one thing that annoyed me in later seasons. PH got some surgery, and then every episode had to have some mention of how OMG HAWT Debra was.

[FormerMod-a1]

I never saw Debra as a bad cook, even in later seasons, just not as good as Marie.  I figured she tried to make healthier things, so less butter and oil and creamy sauces in the cooking, and she probably used more convenience foods and ingredients, unlike Marie who would make everything from scratch.  Oh, and she also wasn't a perfectionist about it either, so if her cake wasn't perfectly level she didn't care.  Put all those together and compare to Marie who enjoys cooking, makes everything from scratch, lives for the compliments, and is a perfectionist about it and Debra will pale in comparison.  But compared to other people, she might not look so bad

[Snow Apple]

Debra can follow a recipe. Everyone raves about that dish from a magazine. Because a magazine cannot sabotage her or go into her kitchen to mis-label her spices. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Snow Apple

[ByTor]

5 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Debra can follow a recipe. Everyone raves about that dish from a magazine. Because a magazine cannot sabotage her or go into her kitchen to mis-label her spices. 

Yeah, she got rave reviews for her braciole (except for a certain someone who doesn't need to be named LOL).

[qtpye]

Ray talked about how he makes fun of Debra’s cooking, even when she makes something good, because it makes other people like him better.

[WinnieWinkle]

25 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Ray talked about how he makes fun of Debra’s cooking, even when she makes something good, because it makes other people like him better.

What was really bad though when you think about it was he also told people she drank too much and told the other Barone's she was out of control with the spending.  I'm sure the writers never gave this much thought but it's no wonder Marie had serious concerns about Debra based on what Ray was telling her!!

[Guest]

I think it's why I like the episodes where Debra and Marie "work together."  It's a nice change. Specifically the one where they get Gianni to take Amy out and Ray is telling Marie how Debra plotted it, and then it turns out Marie was behind it. Or in Favors.

[ByTor]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Everybody Loves Raymond is going to air on IFC.  When it will start airing, I don't know.  I saw a commercial for it yesterday.  All that the commercial said was that ELR is coming to IFC.  My cable guide only extends out for two weeks, and it doesn't list ELR for that cable channel, yet.

I saw it too! I am disappointed to see that you don't know when either 😞

[ByTor]

Thanks @icemiser69! 

[Virtual]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:19 PM, ByTor said:

My niece is the best! She had a t-shirt made for me with my most quoted ELR line (from The Angry Family)...

That is cool. It never fails to make me burst into laughter every time I watch that episode and Ray just randomly launches into that skit during the meeting with the kids' teacher. 😆

Part of me wanted this show to be rebooted during the wave of reboots that started around 2014 or so, but the other part of me remembered Frank's line about not having a good show without he and Marie.

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, Virtual said:

Part of me wanted this show to be rebooted during the wave of reboots that started around 2014 or so, but the other part of me remembered Frank's line about not having a good show without he and Marie.

I've just discovered this show is now on Netflix and what a refreshing change to watch it uncut and without commercials.  The croissant scene you and Bytor talk about always gets cut when that episode airs on network TV (at least on the channels I get anyway) and in almost every show now I am noticing a scene, or a line or two, that never get shown.  Anyway I don't want a reboot but I'd love to have a reunion show where we can catch up on the Barones.  Sadlly though I can't see it happening - they could write the deaths of all the grandparents and still make it work but I can't see them having one of the twins dead.  That would be just too sad and writing it as if he's off working in Paris or something, well, I guess they could try that, but somehow I still think they won't.

[Virtual]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:25 PM, SusannahM said:

The croissant scene you and Bytor talk about always gets cut when that episode airs on network TV (at least on the channels I get anyway) and in almost every show now I am noticing a scene, or a line or two, that never get shown.

And that is something that I wish networks didn't do. When I get the DVD's of shows, overall I can find about 20 scenes in the series' run, depending on how long the show is, that the network channel I first watched the episodes on didn't show for some reason. Some time ago, I watched the Raybert episode (I think on TVLand), and the last scene where the girl comes back to the laundry room to introduce Robert to her father (when she thinks he's Ray and her father, having seen Ray on TV knows it's not him) was cut out.

Overall, I lean more towards not having a reboot, even more so now that you've reminded me that one of the twins is now gone too.

[TVMovieBuff]

They were never going to do a reboot. Patricia Heaton & Doris Roberts said they would never do a reunion show, because Peter Boyle was gone and they wouldn't do it without him. Now, all 6 of the parents are dead irl, and the one twin. It isn't going to happen. 

Christmas episodes! My favorite is Jazz Records. I have the DVD sets, so I know the stations cut an important part out. Ray tells his son that he loves his gift of an electronic dictionary, even though the boys wrecked his prized book dictionary. To counteract Frank's decades-long scorn of Raymond for ruining his jazz records. The message of the episode is lost by the cut.

[SusanM]

22 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Christmas episodes! My favorite is Jazz Records. I have the DVD sets, so I know the stations cut an important part out. Ray tells his son that he loves his gift of an electronic dictionary, even though the boys wrecked his prized book dictionary. To counteract Frank's decades-long scorn of Raymond for ruining his jazz records. The message of the episode is lost by the cut.

They do this as well in the episode where Marie teaches Debra how to make meatballs.  They always leave out the first scene where Ray chooses Marie's meatballs over Debra's lemon chicken.  Sometimes the opening scene has little to nothing to do with the rest of the episode (especially the first year when it was often a sports figure being featured) but in this episode that opening scene sets the story in motion.  So annoying!

[SusanM]

I thought I'd seen all the episodes but today I saw one from season 4 "Someone's Cranky".  I think I may have skipped it in the past because I confuse it with the episode "Bad Moon Rising" where Debra has PMS.  Not a favourite.  Anyway, kind of fun to come across a "new" episode of an old show!

Edited January 9, 2022 by SusannahM

[TVMovieBuff]

Just gotta say. The episode Older Women where Debra's father brings a date to Thanksgiving who is older than her is. 

The story about Claudia the 200 lb cleaning lady who Ray stared at, cracks me up every time. I literally lol.