The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't someone send one of her posts (it had to be a dissatisfied one toward the end of her viewership) to SA (or maybe MG? - but I think it was SA) and he was basically like she doesn't know what she's talking about? 

I used to love her posts so much. I was sad when she quit watching (beer me your strength, Jennifer Crusie). 

They posted a link to SA's Facebook page of one of Cruises rants(?) On Arrow.

[leopardprint]

Maybe those two are the MG/WM of romance writing then? 

Edited May 21, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Maybe those two are the MG/WM of romance writing then? 

I feel like I can't make fun of WM after 520. Cuz I've watched it like a zillion times and she did write it. 

[leopardprint]

That's ok, @Mellowyellow, I'll carry on in your stead. ?

[thegirlsleuth]

Allison Brennan now writes exclusively in the thriller category--she gave up her romance series a while ago--and writes a couple of series about FBI agents.  I don't know about her reviewing partner.  

Thanks for the reminder about how wonderful Jennifer Crusie was--she wrote a great book about Jane Austin and the few books I read by her were super-enjoyable.  You all reminded me of an article she wrote in 2015 titled There's a New Girl in Town.  It's all great, but even if you don't read the article just look at the memes.  I especially like the

Spoiler

"I hope you die, Oliver."

[Mellowyellow]

Aaaaand I just realised WM wrote 320!!! Dammnit definately can't make fun of her now!

[wonderwall]

21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Aaaaand I just realised WM wrote 320!!! Dammnit definately can't make fun of her now!

She wrote some of the best Olicity episodes:

• 320
• 401
• 409
• 520

[leopardprint]

17 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

She wrote some of the best Olicity episodes:

• 320
• 401
• 409
• 520

I think MG co-wrote 401 ?as well but she also co-wrote 509 ?.

Edited May 21, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

320 and 520 killed me in all the good ways. Definitely will feel too guilty mocking WM from now on (her interviews are terrible though). When they get it right they get it very right.

I almost feel like when they reach a positive Olicity plot they go all out and it's adorable but when they write Olicity on the rocks that's when it goes to the crapper.

[BkWurm1]

22 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

almost feel like when they reach a positive Olicity plot they go all out and it's adorable but when they write Olicity on the rocks that's when it goes to the crapper.

Agreed.   And I'm totally am on board with the solution to this problem.  ;)

Edited May 21, 2017 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

19 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

320 and 520 killed me in all the good ways. Definitely will feel too guilty mocking WM from now on (her interviews are terrible though). When they get it right they get it very right.

 

She wrote some of the best Olicity episodes but she's written some pretty terrible ones too haha The ones that come to mind:

• 214 (I don't particularly agree with this one but a lot of Felicity fans loathed htis episode)
• 307
• 419

[Mellowyellow]

@wonderwall was 214 the infamous "You'll always be my girl" episode?

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

She wrote some of the best Olicity episodes but she's written some pretty terrible ones too haha The ones that come to mind:

• 214 (I don't particularly agree with this one but a lot of Felicity fans loathed htis episode)
• 307
• 419

I loved 2x14. That's the one where Felicity decides to take on The Clock King by herself isn't it?

I liked that episode I think it was one of the first episodes to really deal with  Felicitys feelings and her emotional point of view in terms of both Oliver and her role in the team.

Plus the "you'll always be my girl Felicity" scene ?

3x07 I'm divided on. I did think it was OTT on the triangle and romance and Cupid was a pretty OTT villaness. But there was some good moments within the episode that I loved even if I didn't love the episode as a whole.

[wonderwall]

Just now, LeighAn said:

I loved 2x14. That's the one where Felicity decides to take on The Clock King by herself isn't it?

I liked that episode I think it was one of the first episodes to really deal with  Felicitys feelings and her emotional point of view in terms of both Oliver and her role in the team.

Plus the "you'll always be my girl Felicity" scene ?

It wasn't my favorite but I really liked it too. What human being never doubts themselves? I loved seeing Felicity doubt herself a bit, it added an extra layer of depth to her. 

I also liked the "you'll always be my girl" line. I didn't really find it patronizing, just reassuring. 

But to each their own :

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

It wasn't my favorite but I really liked it too. What human being never doubts themselves? I loved seeing Felicity doubt herself a bit, it added an extra layer of depth to her. 

I also liked the "you'll always be my girl" line. I didn't really find it patronizing, just reassuring. 

But to each their own :

If Felicity and Oliver were written based on everything parts of the fandom want or expect for them I feel like I would probably end up disliking them.

Felicity doubting herself and her place made her human. Human characters infinitely more preferable then infallible ones.

[leopardprint]

From 214, I remember thinking Oliver and Sara were unusually jerky and WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD did Oliver go to that dinner. 

I wonder if we will get WM word salad for 523. When do the interviews normally start to appear? 

Edited May 21, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

I disliked 214 and 307 for the same reason -- because Oliver was a selfish jerk and Felicity's pain was too much and unnecessary. Oliver knew that Felicity had feelings for him and immediately after telling her she's never going to lose him, he starts with the very obvious PDAs with Sara right in front of her and ignoring Felicity entirely except as a work tool and to tell her to stop training and get back to the little box he has her in.

In 307, it's much the same thing -- he rejects her again and then she has to hear him tell Carrie Cutter  that he's not going to be with anyone.  And then we're supposed to feel sorry for Oliver when he sees Ray kissing her?  Don't manipulate me like that.  And then the episodes ends with Oliver surrounded by friends at Diggle's dinner, while Felicity is alone.  WM did the same thing at the end of 509, everyone goes to support Oliver, including Susan sexing him up, while Felicity cries alone.  Oliver is self-centred and Felicity gets hurt.

So as long as Felicity and Oliver are together in the next episode, I'm willing to give her the leeway.  But if they're at odds, nope, don't want to see WM's episodes. Don't need Oliver to be that kind of jerk and Felicity to be so hurt.

Edited May 21, 2017 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

I recognise why people might dislike those episodes but again I personally feel a lack of flaws, doubts, and authentic human emotion and human actions makes for less interesting two dimensional characters *shrug* So I think while its not my most favourite thing to ever happen to Oliver and Felicity I don't hold anything against the show exploring Felicity having self doubts or Oliver having jealousy because that makes them relatable. 

[statsgirl]

My problem is not that Felicity has self-doubts, it's that Oliver behaves like such an ass towards her that it kills my desire to have them together.

In season 3, from 3x07 to 3x16 inclusive, Ray treated Felicity much better than Oliver did.

[LeighAn]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My problem is not that Felicity has self-doubts, it's that Oliver behaves like such an ass towards her that it kills my desire to have them together.

In season 3, from 3x07 to 3x16 inclusive, Ray treated Felicity much better than Oliver did.

That's your perception. My perception  however is that Ray was super creepy in the sexual harrassment type way in 3x07 given Felicity is his employee and he her boss and he continued his workplace harrassment by coming on to his employee even in times when he knew she was emotionally grieving and vunerable and in 3x16 he was a threatened jerk who couldn't accept the fact that Felicity was smarter at something then he was. 

But I admit I didn't care for Ray never have and therefore I'm comfortable dismissing him as a creepy magoo even if my less petty self can admit the writers probably didn't intend for me to read the character that way that they probably meant me to read Ray as the nice guy and the better on paper guy. Kind of hypocritical of me I guess but Ray isn't on my fave list #sorrynotsorry

I am invested in Felicity and Oliver though so I don't dismiss them as one thing and one thing only but like seeing them fleshed out even if that means seeing their less then perfect sides *shrug*

Thats just my opinion. And anyway I'm just super happy that they are in such a good place both individually and as a couple that what happened three season ago is kind of moot now.

[lemotomato]

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My problem is not that Felicity has self-doubts, it's that Oliver behaves like such an ass towards her that it kills my desire to have them together.

In season 3, from 3x07 to 3x16 inclusive, Ray treated Felicity much better than Oliver did.

How is that a fair comparison, to only count the episodes where he treated her well and ignoring how he mislead her in 301, bought the store she worked at to force her to work for him in 302, pinging her phone to find her in 309, and all the crap he did in 317? Using that argument, Oliver was the perfect boyfriend in 401-407, and nothing he did before or after that should count. 

[statsgirl]

We should probably take this to the Relationship thread.

[tv echo]

On May 18, EK and RG were on Good Day Chicago [go to link to watch video] - it's a short interview; they talked about the DCTV shows bringing attention to lesser known DC superheroes (no spoilers)...
http://www.fox32chicago.com/mornings/255496441-video 

Edited May 21, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 74
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres   05/21/2017
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Tatiana said that she had read before 522 aired that there would be a birthday party and thought that if the entire episode was about the birthday party, Craig would be so mad because of the lack of Prometheus progress, but then the birthday party only lasted "about five minutes." Tatiana asked why you would throw a surprise birthday party "for someone who is a masked vigilante and who frequently has people coming after him." Craig agreed. 

-- Craig thought the episode was only "okay" and that it was a "lot of shuffling of pieces." Tatiana disagreed and thought that it was a "great episode" and that "the shuffling was the perfect kind of shuffling." She liked that we found out Rene didn't abandon his daughter. She also liked that they went "old school" and brought back Malcolm and Nyssa. Craig thought that Talia al Ghul has been "so underdeveloped" that we don't know enough to know what that would mean to Nyssa.

-- Craig said that it looked like Oliver was "finally" growing and learning to trust people, even though it took five years.

-- Craig liked the big Slade Wilson revieal. Tatiana thought that Slade was "for sure going to double cross Oliver... but in a very sexy manner."

-- Craig mentioned that they didn't show Rene or Dinah this week. Tatiana mentioned that they didn't show William either. She also said that the child actor who plays William "seems to be growing like a weed... how long has Adrian Chase had him?"

-- Tatiana thought that Oliver & Felicity are "basically back together" and added: "I'm just waiting for them to make out. They're certainly going to make out in this finale, guys."  Craig wondered why they're suddenly back together just because they "both simultaneously remembered their drunken hook-up" from "like, two months ago... There must be a gas leak in the Arrowcave that you're not able to remember stuff." Tatiana objected and said that they've "had a lot of stuff to deal with" and that it was more like six months ago. She also said that they didn't think about it until they were trapped together. Craig also questioned why Felicity "got so hot and heavy with the cop after said hook-up." Tatiana noted that Felicity said to Oliver after the hook-up that he needed to figure himself out and figure herself out and that she wasn't there yet. She thought it made sense that if Felicity "wanted to stop herself from the temptation of Oliver, she would've pushed herself into this other relationship... at least at first. But then she got so deep so fast with that other guy." Then he was killed. But now that they've been in this "life in jeopardy" situation together where Oliver almost died, "they've realized that life is short and [they] won't waste time with all that nonsense." Craig just thought it was funny that Oliver only remembers things sequentially, for five minutes at a time.

-- At the end when Oliver was flying to Lian Yu and mentioned "Purgatory," Tatiana dreaded that we'd find out that this was Lost and that he's been on the island the whole time and that there was suddenly going to be flash-sideways. Craig liked Nyssa's mention of her father always telling her to visit this island and she did and found Sara there.

-- Craig liked Thea's explaining multiple universes to Quentin and thought it was like when you "have to explain modern technology to old people." Craig didn't know if Black Siren's father was dead and if there was some kind of "weird co-dependency" developing between her and Quentin. Tatiana was exasperated with how much Quentin has suffered and said that they should just let him be happy for once: "Get Felicity's mom back here or something, jeez... He needs something, man. Poor guy."

Edited May 22, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

26 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Craig thought that Talia al Ghul has been "so underdeveloped" that we don't know enough to know what that would mean to Nyssa.

Yes, thank you, Craig! I think this is the only media comment on the terrible waste of Talia I have seen. She's as two dimensional as Tinah. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by leopardprint

[Starfish35]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:29 PM, leopardprint said:

From 214, I remember thinking Oliver and Sara were unusually jerky and WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD did Oliver go to that dinner. 

I agree with that.  Sara's my favorite character and even I thought she did not come off well at all here.  And yes about Oliver.   But my problem with Felicity's portrayal was not that she was doubting herself, but that I felt like it infantilized her.  She came off (to me) as really super young, like a tagalong little sister trying to be grownup enough to play with the big kids.  I loathed it.  Least favorite episode by far of the first two seasons.  *shrug*  But mileage will vary, of course. :)

Edited May 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[shadow2008]

15 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Yes, thank you, Craig! I think this is the only media comment on the terrible waste of Talia I have seen. She's as two dimensional as Tinah. 

Tell me about it. I was so excited for Talia/Lexa to be on this show and her character has turned out to be a total waste of everyone's time. I'm still looking forward to the upcoming Talia/Nyssa confrontation, mind you, but can you imagine how great it could have been if the writers had properly build up to it and developed Talia's character just a little?

Edited May 22, 2017 by shadow2008

[tv echo]

Juliana Harkavy: 25 Things You Don’t Know About Me (an Olsen Twin Taught Me How to Use Toilet Seat Covers)
By Us Weekly Staff  May 22, 2017
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/juliana-harkavy-25-things-you-dont-know-about-me-w483645

Quote

1. I make damn good biscuits and gravy. The key is maple sausage.

2. One of my dream roles would be to play a man.

3. I wanted to be an astronomer until I discovered I'm terrible at math.

4. If you fall in front of me and aren't seriously injured, chances are I'm gonna laugh.

5. I am aroused by the scent of my husband's body odor. Not really funky B.O., just a hint of it. I'm told this is not an uncommon thing.

6. I believed in Santa until I was like, 12.

7. My celebrity crush is Gordon Ramsay. No disrespect to his wife and four children.

8. I am teaching myself how to yodel.

9. My signature scent is Hanae Mori, the Butterfly eau de toilette. I've worn it since I was 15, and now it smells like 100 memories.

10. I was the first baby born in Manhattan in 1985.

11. I have ASMR, which stands for Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. Certain sounds and images cause my head to "tingle” and feel like a lovely brain massage.

12. My biggest beauty secret is the steam room.

13. Besides acting, my favorite job has been as a daycare teacher to a class of 1- and 2-year-olds. I was changing 20 diapers a day and have never felt more fulfilled.

14. I obsess about mortality almost daily.

15. I pride myself in being able to belch very, very loudly.

16. I am extremely passionate about animal rescue. My focused interest is in helping pit bulls and other bully breeds that have been given an unfair stigma.

17. Even though I'm 19 years late, I still plan on being Bat Mitzvah'd.

18. I enjoy the taste of soap. The original Dove bar is my favorite. It all began as a child, watching Mr. Rogers. He once referred to a bar of soap as "a cake of soap" and I've affiliated soap with dessert ever since. Disclaimer: Do not eat soap like me.

19. I can figure out how to play most songs on the piano by ear.

20. If you have an ailment, I am a 24-hour walking apothecary of essential oils.

21. Kevin Costner yelled at me when I was a child for starting a water fight mid-take on the set of Wyatt Earp. My dad was there on business and pretended not to know me.

22. I have had my own YouTube channel for about seven years. My most popular video is called "Surprising Uses for Vicks VapoRub."

23. I have never been arrested. If you knew me in my adolescence, you would understand this is nothing short of a miracle.

24. I once dreamt that I breastfed my dog.

25. I was taught how to properly use a toilet seat cover by an Olsen twin.

Edited May 23, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I enjoy the taste of soap. The original Dove bar is my favorite. It all began as a child, watching Mr. Rogers. He once referred to a bar of soap as "a cake of soap" and I've affiliated soap with dessert ever since. Disclaimer: Do not eat soap like me.

Girl, why. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Girl, why. 

I think the breast feeding dog dream and getting turned on by her husband's BO were way worse. LOL

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

I think the breast feeding dog dream and getting turned on by her husband's BO were way worse. LOL

I mean, admitting it sure. I think we all have our kinks/dreams that you probably wouldn't admit like that but to actively have an affinity for eating soap is just...why

[leopardprint]

32 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Girl, why.

I'm all for unapologetic weirdos but let's keep some mystery, too 

[Midnight Lullaby]

.....probably someone should tell her eating soap isn't good for your health. ?

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

16. I am extremely passionate about animal rescue. My focused interest is in helping pit bulls and other bully breeds that have been given an unfair stigma.

That just won my heart.

I know of some synesthesia but I've never heard of ASMR before.

[strikera0]

Quote

 

5. I am aroused by the scent of my husband's body odor. Not really funky B.O., just a hint of it. I'm told this is not an uncommon thing.

15. I pride myself in being able to belch very, very loudly.

18. I enjoy the taste of soap. The original Dove bar is my favorite. It all began as a child, watching Mr. Rogers. He once referred to a bar of soap as "a cake of soap" and I've affiliated soap with dessert ever since. Disclaimer: Do not eat soap like me.

24. I once dreamt that I breastfed my dog.

 

Too much information, girl. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

5. I am aroused by the scent of my husband's body odor. Not really funky B.O., just a hint of it. I'm told this is not an uncommon thing

To be fair, I have heard this from a number of my friends as well.  

 

4 hours ago, strikera0 said:

e taste of soap. The original Dove bar is my favorite. It all began as a child, watching Mr. Rogers. He once referred to a bar of soap as "a cake of soap" and I've affiliated soap with dessert ever since. Disclaimer: Do not eat soap like me.

I grew up with Dove the soap of choice, so I remember messing around with it and tasting the stuff as a kid.  It's not as bad as an Ivory or any of the deodorant soaps, but not a pleasant thing.  Not bad for blowing bubbles though if you suds upped right over your mouth.  

[shadow2008]

Quote

18. I enjoy the taste of soap. The original Dove bar is my favorite. It all began as a child, watching Mr. Rogers. He once referred to a bar of soap as "a cake of soap" and I've affiliated soap with dessert ever since. Disclaimer: Do not eat soap like me.

I obviously don't know how often and to what extent Juliana consumes soap, but what she is describing here may be considered behavior associated with PICA disorder, which is considered a craving to eat non-nutritive, non-food items. PICA can be caused by high levels of stress, anemia or nutritional deficiencies such as iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamins C and D. It may be wise to get that checked out just in case. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by shadow2008

[BkWurm1]

She was just following the advice of that friendly neighbor Mr. Rogers.  Doesn't eating soap work as a laxative? (Meaning doesn't it make you sick?)

[shadow2008]

38 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Doesn't eating soap work as a laxative? (Meaning doesn't it make you sick?)

I think sickness may depend on the brand (not every soap is created equal), your own tolerance levels and the amounts of soap you consume (e.g. some people can eat a whole bar in a day and feel great while others throw up after a couple of pieces) , but a possible long-term effect of eating soap is a blockage in or damage to the digestive tract, which may require medical intervention to remove/repair. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by shadow2008

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

She was just following the advice of that friendly neighbor Mr. Rogers.  Doesn't eating soap work as a laxative? (Meaning doesn't it make you sick?)

The one and ONLY time my mother tried to was my mouth out with soap (note, don't curse in front of mom) i got so sick i threw up all over her and the bathroom floor. 

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The one and ONLY time my mother tried to was my mouth out with soap (note, don't curse in front of mom) i got so sick i threw up all over her and the bathroom floor. 

Kids training parents   ;-)

[tv echo]

EW reviewer gave 523 a grade of "A"...

Arrow finale recap: 'Lian Yu’
SARA NETZLEY MAY 24, 2017 
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-finale/

Quote

Before they depart, Oliver gives Curtis comms — “Just in case something goes wrong” — and Felicity satellite images of the island, again “just in case.” Felicity, in turn, leans in and kisses him. When he asks what that was for, she replies, “Just in case.” She regrets many things about their relationship but didn’t want to add not kissing him to the list. They promise to discuss the State of Olicity in greater depth when they’re off the island, and folks, the kiss may have been more chaste than some fans might’ve liked, but the sentiment behind it, and the conversation to come, is not.
*  *  *
A shocked Thea tries to process her father’s sacrifice, mourning the fact that she got a glimpse of the father he could’ve been but now won’t get to be. She asks Felicity if it’s possible to miss someone you hated, and Felicity reminds her that she knows a thing or two about evil dads. (Which, for my money, pretty much confirms that Papa Smoak’s going to turn out to be the evil head of Helix next season.) Curtis’ truly terrible Tattoo impression of “de plane!” interrupts, but before they can decide who’s going to pilot the aircraft, they discover hundreds of networked bombs covering the island. Ruh roh.
*  *  *
And at last, Adrian Chase enters the scene, complete with Prometheus music. Oliver vows that he’ll never give Chase the satisfaction of killing him. “Never say never,” Chase replies, and then the assembled troops unleash the kraken, “the kraken” being one of the best fight scenes of the season. Chase, his lieutenant Black Siren, and the rest of his goons take on Oliver’s crew — where, it must be said, Rene’s civilian plaid shirt looks comically out of place among all the black leather. The camera roams across the battlefield, which is a flurry of precisely choreographed action.
*  *  *
... But thanks to his emotional and psychological growth —  not just this season, but over the last five — Oliver lets Chase go, bellowing, “That’s who I was before. That’s not who I am now.” He tells Chase that he can blame Oliver for the death of his father all he wants, but “I’m done blaming myself for mine.” Oooh, buddy, I hope this character development sticks in season 6. Imagine an Oliver Queen unburdened by mountains of guilt. Gives you chills, doesn’t it?
*  *  *
And okay, let’s take a moment to discuss the weak point in an otherwise outstanding finale: William. Oliver’s son hasn’t been part of the Arrow narrative in any meaningful way, appearing in a smattering of episodes and existing primarily as a wedge between Oliver and Felicity and a tool for Chase. Sure, nobody wants to see a child in danger, and we all understand a character leaping to protect his son, but the writers are relying on these storytelling shortcuts to create unearned stakes in the finale. Stephen Amell acts the hell out of this, but imagine the emotional resonance of Chase placing, say, Thea in this position instead. You’ve still got that familial bond, but it’s imbued with five seasons of audience connection, too.
*  *  *
What a cliffhanger, no? On the one hand, Lian Yu is a big island, and it doesn’t seem like the team had enough time to make it to the other side before the big bang. On the other hand, well, the show’s not going to kill off everyone. So the cliffhanger likely isn’t “OMG, did everybody die?” but “Did any particular characters not make it?” Like, it doesn’t look good for Evelyn, right?
*  *  *
Well, here endeth season 5, which was a bit of a roller coaster. The Russia flashbacks were a marked improvement over the season 4 flashbacks and Josh Segarra played a great villain, but the new team members were a bit of a mixed bag. Rene struggled to get beyond “grating,” while Rory showed great promise before vanishing. And while Dinah’s a welcome addition, let us never speak of reporter Susan again. Looking ahead, I’m hoping for a big bad who can top Adrian Chase, more Dinah, a swift resolution to Rene’s custody battle, the return of Rory, Thea back full time, and a happy, drama-free Olicity in season 6.

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

[bethy]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Stephen Amell acts the hell out of this, but imagine the emotional resonance of Chase placing, say, Thea in this position instead.

Seriously. Just thinking about that makes me anxious.  

[tv echo]

A.V. Club reviewer gave 523 a grade of "A"...

Arrow completes Oliver’s 10-year journey from survivor to killer to hero
By Alasdair Wilkins  May 24, 2017  
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-completes-olivers-10-year-journey-survivor-k-255887

Quote

... While it’s possible the show will go back to basics, eliminate everything to do with Team Arrow, and just reset the show around Oliver and William, I can’t believe they just killed off every major non-Oliver regular and recurring character. Hell, I’m not really convinced Malcolm Merlyn is dead, even if John Barrowman has said he won’t be back next season.

What all this does mean though is that it’s hard to judge the finale’s conclusion, as there really isn’t one to speak of. There is at least the fact that Oliver keeps his word and refuses to kill Chase, even when William’s life in danger. Oliver’s improvisation isn’t the most inspired bit of arrow-related business in the show’s history—shooting Chase in the foot is just sort of there, as solutions go, neither inspired enough to feel like Oliver finally outsmarted his adversary nor so dumb that it reads as Chase being hoist with his own petard. I’m getting all this out of the way now because, while this is all worth considering, it all feels secondary to the true purpose of this episode, which is to showcase every conceivable corner of Arrow in 42 action-soaked minutes. The closest comparable I can think of for this episode is Justice League Unlimited’s “Destroyer,” which similarly wraps up a show’s story by turning out one last half-hour of superheroics. That Arrow has to remind us it’s continuing on makes the end frustratingly uncertain, but everything up to then is delightfully on point.
*  *  *
The episode is at its best when it embraces its role as big damn action movie, with plenty of focus on Slade’s swordplay, the dueling Canary cries, and a whole bunch of hand-to-hand combat both in the present and in the past. Manu Bennett once more oozes charisma as Slade Wilson, selling both his would-be betrayals while drawing us back in each time his true allegiances are again revealed. Lexa Doig and Katrina Law prove perfectly matched as daughters of Ra’s al Ghul, with Nyssa showing her own capacity for mercy when she spares Talia. Lance declares Dinah is indeed the Black Canary and offers a timely assist against Black Siren, exorcising some of his grief over Laurel’s death by taking down her evil doppelganger. (Probably not the best therapy, as these things go, but needs must.) And what character moments the show does take time on work well. All of Slade and Oliver’s scenes are a good reminder of why the second season was so compelling, while Thea and Malcolm wrap up their story—with some words of wisdom from Felicity—in a way that acknowledges Merlyn’s complexity without letting him off the hook for his monstrous deeds.
*  *  *
Taken in isolation, “Lian Yu” is a strong but probably not superlative episode. Other episodes have had bigger action beats, better observed character moments, stronger points to make about who Oliver is and what his existence as the Green Arrow means. But this episode climbs into the uppermost echelon of Arrow episodes because it taps directly into everything that has come before it. That sense of culmination makes tonight’s episode something special, bringing what is effectively a decade’s worth of story to an end… only to blow everything up. What happens from here is uncertain, and this finale sure appears to challenge Arrow’s sixth season to carve out something new for the show. But as a final affirmation, even celebration of Arrow’s journey up to this point—an imperfect journey that has mostly been fun, and often good or better, at least when Oliver wasn’t doing whatever he was up to in Hong Kong for that one year—“Lian Yu” is just about perfect. This episode is all that Arrow is… or perhaps, from now on, what it was.

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

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Arrow Season 5 Episode 23 Review: “Lian Yu”
Chris King  May 24, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-finale-review-lian-yu

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Thank God for these characters and thank God I kept watching because I would have otherwise missed out on this spectacular season of television. Arrow Season 5 culminates tonight with an epic, intense, and emotional finale that not only serves as a powerful final chapter to this year’s stories but also as a perfect way of bringing the show full circle, as it sets all of the action, both in the past and present, on Lian Yu, showing us Oliver’s full rescue from the island and his defeat of Adrian Chase. It’s an hour that signifies just how much Oliver Queen has grown as a person from the time he left Lian Yu five years ago to his return in tonight’s finale, as he transformed from a killer into a hero and a monster into a man.
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That’s why this journey of self-discovery for Oliver in Season 5 has felt so fresh and been so satisfying; this whole season has been, in a way, one big final step, an examination and acceptance of the past in order to create a better future. There are levels of emotion and depth that have been missing in previous stories about Oliver’s identity, and they elevate this somewhat familiar material to the type of spectacular superhero storytelling we’ve seen throughout this fifth season. The Oliver who kills Damien Darhk to get vengeance for Laurel in the Season 4 finale is entirely different than the Oliver who won’t fire an arrow into Chase’s heart in “Lian Yu,” and it’s due to the excellent planning and writing of the Arrow creative team and the fantastic acting of Stephen Amell that there is fulfillment to this year’s main story in the finale.
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... The Oliver we see at the end of Season 5 is also drastically different than the person we see calling his mother on the rescue boat near the end of tonight’s finale; in that moment, Oliver finds hope and love in the sound of Moira’s voice, but he knows and we know that he’s more monster than man when he initially returns home, more of a killer than a hero.

But the Oliver that’s just been rescued doesn’t know that he’s about to meet John Diggle and Felicity Smoak. He doesn’t know that he’s going to inspire a team of heroes to fight alongside him. He doesn’t know that he’s going to become mayor of the city that he vows to protect from evil. He doesn’t know that his strength comes from the people that he loves, and even though Chase believes that he’s taking Oliver’s strength away from him by activating the dead man’s switch, we know better.
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I really enjoyed the small but significant exchange that Oliver and Felicity have before he, Slade, and Nyssa head out to confront Chase. The “Just in case” line strikes the perfect balance between sweet and somber, and it just feels like something Felicity would say to Oliver in that moment. Also, while I understand why many Arrow viewers aren’t fans of Samantha (since she’s partially responsible for the contrived Oliver/Felicity drama that broke the pair up in Season 4), I do love the conversation that she and Felicity have in the finale about William and Oliver. You also have to appreciate the fact that she delivers this piece of romantic advice to Felicity: “I saw that kiss you gave him. Doesn’t seem that complicated to me.”

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

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Is Chris King a bit of a shipper? He strikes me as incredibly shippy in all of his reviews?

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‘Arrow’ Season 5 Finale Recap: “Lian Yu” Is Really Blowing Up Right Now
BY KAYTI BURT      MAY 24, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-season-5-finale-recap-lian-yu/

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For five seasons, Oliver has defined himself by the time he spent on Lian Yu. The show has defined itself — for good and for bad (and, boy, has there been stome bad) — by Oliver’s past. With the Season 5 finale, aptly named “Lian Yu,” that identity crutch, force, whatever you want to call it has come to an end. Chase both literally and thematically destroyed Oliver’s connection to his past when he planted hundreds of bombs on Oliver’s own personal purgatory and blew it up. Presumably, he blew Oliver’s loved ones up along with it. (But not really because there’s such a thing as actor contracts.)
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It was Moira’s cameo that really packed a punch. Susanna Thompson’s Moira Queen was one of the consistent strengths of this show from the pilot episode, at a time when the show didn’t have everything figured out. Moira’s character is not only excellent in her own right, but brings out a different side of Oliver. In a flashback, we see Oliver call home right after being picked up off of Lian Yu. At this point in Oliver’s arc, he is hardened and he is determined and he doesn’t see himself worthy of love. But his mother automatically breaks through all that. Even when Oliver was at his worst, he loved and was loved. This is where his salvation has always lain.
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Oliver’s going to need that love moving forward, given that he is seemingly now the sole parent of a child he doesn’t know with almost no support system. (Except Lyla, I guess?) I know that Arrow didn’t really just kill off most of its cast, but I would love to see a delay in their return (maybe they ended up on a different “deserted” island nearby?) just so we can see Oliver raising his son and angsting a little bit over the hiatus. Is that cruel? Maybe, but it is also a great narrative decision.
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– Did Oliver’s loved ones make it off the island? Of course they did! But how? It seems unlikely they made it to the eastern side of the island in that time. Maybe they hunkered down in Slade’s prison box. Did that thing look bomb-proof/waterproof?
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– One of the reasons why this season finale plot didn’t hit a little harder was because we don’t know William. Furthermore, Oliver doesn’t know William. I would have loved to see some kind of relationship form between these two (or for William to have any kind of character development) before making Oliver choose.
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– “William? Good name. Sort of a sweet kid, actually.” — Chase, giving us as much information about William’s personality we have ever gotten.

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Goes Out with a Melrose Place Bang in “Lian Yu”
Posted on May 24, 2017 by Kelly Konda 
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/05/24/arrow-season-5-goes-out-with-a-melrose-place-bang-in-lian-yu/

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This is the first and probably only ever time I’ll make this comparison, but Arrow just pulled a Melrose Place.
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Well, here we are again. Adrian Chase just stepped into Kimberly Shaw’s shoes and blew up the entire damn island of Lian Yu, leaving everyone’s life hanging in the balance, other than Oliver and William’s, of course, since they watched it all from the safety of a boat off-shore. Now we have to wait until October to find out what Arrow season 6’s cast list is going to look like, although common sense dictates the show won’t suddenly turn into a Mister Mayor domestic drama about Oliver as a single father raising William with zero support from friends and family since they all died in the explosion. No, everyone is probably going to be fine.

Spoiler

 In fact, we already know for a fact that the actors who play Rene and Dinah as well as Katie Cassidy have signed contracts to be series regulars next season,

and there’s no way they’d kill off Felicity or Diggle or Thea. Jury’s out on Quentin, Curtis, Nyssa, Talia, Evelyn, hell, even Boomerang and Malcolm. But it’s the not knowing for sure that will gnaw at you if you let it.
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It’s impressive that amidst all of the action “Lian Yu” found the time to work in multiple character moments, such as Thea and Felicity – future sisters-in-law, potentially – bonding over their complicated relationships with their dangerous, yet loving fathers and Slade and Oliver reaching an uneasy truce and finding common ground. This was partially accomplished by Oliver showing he’d truly learned nothing from Malcolm’s speeches last week and immediately sending his loved ones away the moment he freed them, which effectively set Felicity, Thea, Curtis, Malcolm and Samantha off on their own walkabout in the woods while everyone else got to do the kung fu fighting.

I’m sure from a writing standpoint this felt like the necessary compromise to both create the opportunity for some heart-to-hearts as well as letting the more science-y half of Team Arrow discover the full length of Adrian’s plan, i.e., that he strapped enough explosives on the island to blow it to kingdom come. It’s arguable that the stakes didn’t actually need to be elevated like that. There’s already enough going on in “Lian Yu” as it is. The island didn’t really have to be one big bomb, yet it was also perfectly in keeping with the sometimes-annoying-but-often-effective pattern of Adrian always thinking two steps ahead of Team Arrow. Of course this would all lead up to yet another one of his Joker-in-The–Dark-Knight lose-lose situations, and even in death by his own hand or by Oliver’s Adrian would still have won. That crazy, sociopathic genius.
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It’s a shame then that all of this in “Lian Yu” revolved around William, a character we have no real relationship with and whose jeopardization might seem like a cheap narrative ploy. Still, when Adrian claimed to have already killed William even though you suspected he was lying it was a real gut punch of, “But he’s just a kid, you evil bastard.” And Stephen Amell certainly sold the emotions of Oliver’s paternal devotion. In fact, Amell was in career-best form the entire episode.
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And then Oliver refused to kill Chase and watched the entire island blow up real nice. No real closure. He loses; Adrian wins, even in death. Olicity will have to wait to see if Emily Rickards renewed her contract. As we cynically assume the cliffhanger will amount to no one of importance actually dying we’re forgetting a larger implication of the finale: William might be an actual character on this show next season. He knows Oliver is his dad now, and Arrow might be gearing up to head into a new era with Oliver as an actual father. That…well, that frankly sounds like a terrible idea because the history of genre shows doing this mid-stream is not encouraging *cough* Connor on Angel *cough*. However, it would mean William might turn into a character and not a prop. So…no. Still don’t like it.
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My theory: Malcolm tricked Boomerang into switching places on the land mine, raced to commandeer the ARGUS boat and sailed in just in time to rescue almost everyone. So, sorry Evelyn.

Backup theory: Samantha saves them all. I don’t know, but that scene of her telling Felicity she wouldn’t leave without her son had to be there for a reason. As it is, it had no payoff.

Second backup theory: Slade rushed everyone to his Argus prison, which was really a war bunker where they could all survive the blast but now need help escaping from the rubble.
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2. Season 5 Loose End: Oliver didn’t think to call Rory? Would have been nice to add a meta (or someone with meta-like abilities) to his makeshift Suicide Squad on Lian Yu.
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6. Two episodes in a row in which former big bads – first Malcolm, now Slade – psychoanalyzed Oliver to his face and offered him sage life advice. If even his greatest villains are pointing out his pattern of poor decisions maybe he should change his ways.
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11. Sane Slade Wilson should stick around either on Arrow next season or maybe join Legends of Tomorrow since that show attracts former Arrow big bads.

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

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