The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Season 5 Premiere Recap: “Legacy” — A Return to Form
BY KAYTI BURT     October 5, 2016
http://collider.com/arrow-season-5-premiere-recap-legacy/

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If you don’t keep swimming, you drown. This is an ironic mantra for several character to repeat in the Arrow Season 5 premiere given that the episode (and hopefully the entire season) is a return to the past for this show, rather than a moving away from it. This nostalgic embrace of many of the elements that once made this show so damn good is what makes “Legacy” one of the best episodes of Arrow in recent memory.
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Oliver is at his most likable in a while here. Even though he’s started killing people again, he is listening to his teammates and friends. He is honest with himself about his limitations and he isn’t making decisions for the people in his life, at least for now. (He is shooting fellow vigilantes with arrows though, in a move that reminded me a bit of the wonderful Nikita Season 2 premiere.)
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Oliver needs to be morally ambiguous. Because, as this episode constantly reminds us, this isn’t a show about superheroes; it’s a show about vigilantes, and the Oliver Won’t Kill Anyone felt pretty forced after Season 2. It became boring. We know that Oliver would always choose not to kill and it not only eliminated a lot of complicated moral tension from this world, but also served to undermine the existing realism even further. Because it seems pretty hard not to kill people and still survive yourself in this kind of high-stakes fighting. Especially when you’re the one bringing a bow-and-arrow to a gunfight.
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Rating: ★★★★ Very good
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— Felicity’s new boyfriend is a handsome cop detective who we really don’t get to spend much time with in the first episode. We’ll have to wait and see how this character and relationship develops. Right now, the dude seems too good to be true. Hopefully, he gets some nuance moving forward.
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— From the Olicity perspective, the Felicity and Oliver stuff also feels like a return to series past. It feels natural. These are two people who care about one another and who have a complicated relationship, but that doesn’t mean they can’t work together on a daily basis without things getting complicated. (Though, inevitably, you know they will.) It’s very Season 2.

[tv echo]

Keep an eye out for these interviews...

[tv echo]

New players in Star City and Laurel's secret revealed in the Arrow Season 5 premiere
Trent Moore   Wed, Oct 05, 2016 9:03pm
http://www.blastr.com/2016-10-5/new-players-star-city-and-laurels-secret-revealed-arrow-season-5-premiere

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The fourth season of Arrow ended with a whole lot of narrative threads dangling, and Season 5 felt like a much-needed course correction to bring the story back on track.
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The action was excellent in the premiere, with solid fight choreography and good stunt/effects work — highlighted by a move that would put The Avengers’ Hawkeye to shame. Diving out of a window, firing a grappling hook into the air, and hooking it into an airborne helicopter? Ambitious, and it didn’t look half bad. Oh, and Parachute Arrow FTW.
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Look, after everything Oliver’s been through, it’s no surprise the guy is emotionally damaged at this point. But after seeing how hard he’s worked since Season 1 to stop killing, and the struggles he’s had with that over the past four years, it stung to see him fall back into that habit so quickly. Yes, his reasoning makes sense in the wake of Laurel’s death, but it didn’t feel true to the character as he’s grown.
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Last but not least: Olicity shippers were dealt a blow in the closing minutes, as we see Felicity return home to a comforting back rub from a new mystery boyfriend. UGH.

Edited October 7, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow’s Season Five Premiere Shows that Moving On is Easier Said than Done
OCTOBER 6, 2016 VERENA COTE
http://www.4ye.co.uk/2016/10/arrows-season-five-premiere-shows-that-moving-on-is-easier-said-than-done/

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Ladies and Gentlemen, we are back! Last night everyones favorite superhero show returned with its fifth season premiere “Legacy.” Arrow certainly upped its game, not only visually, but also in the story arcs department. Stephen Amell wasn’t joking when he said we would love season five.
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Arrow is back, and they came back strong. Episode “Legacy” has everything a good premiere needs. Action, stunts and a lot of explosions. We did not only love the astonishing stunt choreography and cinematography, but also the trick arrows. Please more!
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Olicity fans, fret not. Felicity might get her back rubs from a new man this year, but the two are far from over. It is extremely exciting to see Oliver and Felicity back to working as “platonic” partners, or at least as platonic as two people with as intense a chemistry as theirs could possibly be. Patience is a virtue, and we have a feeling that Felicity’s new beau won’t stick around for too long. People have a way of dying very quickly on this show after all.

Edited October 7, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Arrow' Season 5 Premiere Recap: Oliver Gets His Groove and Murder Streak Back 
Wednesday, October 05, 2016  Derek Stauffer
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-season-5-premiere-recap-61539.aspx

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After one episode, the answer is a pretty emphatic "yes!" Arrow is back to basics in a huge way with "Legacy." This means that Oliver's emotional story is the center of the show, the action is tremendous (every scene is a wonderful tapestry of violence) and the weight of the show is back. Arrow is once again a show about a guy with a bow and arrow fighting crime with all the ridiculousness and death-defying that implies. Oh, and like season 1, Oliver Queen really, really likes killing people again.
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Oliver is settling into his new job as the mayor of Star City... kind of. Oliver is just spending more of his time fighting crime and putting arrows in criminals as the Green Arrow than actual mayoring. As the mayor, Oliver is tapping back in the charismatic playboy image he had in season 1. Oliver's public image isn't the only thing that the opening of Arrow season 5 is borrowing from season 1. Oliver is on his own again with no one but Felicity to guide him and keep him from being an incredibly handsome but broody vigilante/murderer. 
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Oliver, as the mayor, throws an unveiling ceremony for a new (incredibly ugly looking) statue of Laurel to memorialize her life of bravery as the Black Canary. It's a nice sentiment and all, but the statue is gross-looking....
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As for what Laurel did want, we find out in a flashback that is just kind of thrown into the middle of the episode with very little context. (Katie Cassidy has to make that series regular contract for multiple shows money somehow!) We finally hear what Laurel made Oliver promise her on her death bed. Laurel told Oliver to make sure that she wouldn't be the last Canary so a piece of her would always be with him. This promise doesn't make an extraordinary amount of sense since Laurel didn't really know she was about to die but the Black Canary will live again... at some point, maybe. Oliver isn't that great at keeping promises, you know. 
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Following Oliver's pronouncement, there is a quick series of scenes showing changes that the rest of the episode did not showcase. Such as Felicity has a new detective boyfriend. (Felicity will evidently not date anyone who does not fight crime in some capacity.) There is also a new evil archer on the loose who is killing people and being initially mistaken for the Green Arrow. 

[tv echo]

The Best Moment of Arrow's Return Was Also Its Goofiest
James Whitbrook Yesterday 11:00am
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-best-moment-of-arrows-return-was-also-its-goofiest-1787485749

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PARACHUTE TRICK ARROW. It’s no boxing glove, but it’s pretty damn glorious. This is the exact sort of level of silliness Arrow should have alongside its return to the more rooted world of its earlier seasons. We know there’s still big crossovers with Flash, Supergirl, and Legends to come that could take the show away from that “back to basics” hallmark, but if it can keep at it, while giving us occasionally silly moments like this, season five should be a return to form for the Emerald Archer.
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Felicity has a new boyfriend, and it’s one of the cops in Star City PD! It really wouldn’t be a CW show without some relationship drama, would it?
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While it was nice to see Laurel again in the flashback to her death, they really shouldn’t have kept cutting back to her Black Canary memorial statue in this episode. The face sculpt on that thing was not great! Poor Laurel.

[way2interested]

Wow, @tv echo, you must have liked 501 way more than you expected to be posting reviews again ;).

Thanks for all of the posts and highlights!

[tv echo]

You're welcome.  Yep, I did like 501 more than I expected (but my expectations were low going in)...

Arrow “Legacy” Review (Season 5, Episode 1)
Jessica Breaux  October 6, 2016
http://www.tvequals.com/2016/10/06/arrow-legacy-review-season-5-episode-1/ 

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I also liked the interaction between Oliver and Felicity again. Last season was pretty rough because the writers did such a bad job of making Olicity a thing. Instead of allowing Felicity and Oliver to continue being the interesting, complex characters that they were prior to canonizing their relationship, the show felt the need to regress both characters. Oliver went back to lying and keeping information from Felicity “for her own protection” and Felicity turned into a clingy damsel in distress. It wasn’t good for either character and it was upsetting to me as a viewer that the show couldn’t figure out how to do better than that for these two characters. So I was actually kind of relieved when Oliver and Felicity broke up last season because their relationship had become more tedious than entertaining. So I was worried we would be stuck with the same kind of melodrama between them this season, but it looks like we might be able to doge that bullet. At least I hope so. The way that Oliver and Felicity related to each other in this episode was more along the lines of what made me fall for those two characters in the first place. Felicity saw that Oliver needed someone to push him toward doing what is best for himself, and she did that. She saw that Oliver needed someone to give him a healthy dose of the truth, and she did that. Felicity is being Oliver’s friend again, and it was a beautiful thing.
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 At any rate, I enjoyed this episode for the most part. Although, I will say I literally laughed out loud at the Black Canary statue because it looked completely ridiculous. That was supposed to be a poignant moment, but I just couldn’t take it seriously because that statue just looked so goofy....

[Chaser]

I don't understand that paragraph about Olicity. When was she a damsel in distress?

[tv echo]

This review also critiqued Flash 301, but I focused primarily on Arrow 501 (tbc, I don't agree with everything said by this reviewer - or everything said by other reviewers quoted in this thread)...

Arrow and The Flash Are Both Trying to Course Correct, But Can They Be Saved?
Posted on October 6, 2016 by Kelly Konda
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2016/10/06/arrow-and-the-flash-are-both-trying-to-course-correct-but-can-they-be-saved/

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Are you still mad at the show for killing Laurel? Well, Oliver used his position as mayor to build a city-funded statue in her honor. Beyond that, she was mentioned in just about every other scene. Plus, if you read the trades you already know Katie Cassidy is coming back, following in Wentworth Miller and John Barrowman’s footsteps by signing a unique deal makings her a series regular across the entirety of the Arrowverse.
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Arrow, though, has been frustratingly uneven, sometimes laughably bad (such as the nuclear apocalypse in the season 4 finale), occasionally insultingly so (such as pretty much everything to do with Laurel’s death) for two straight seasons. Really, from the moment Barry Allen walked through the door in the second season the show has been set up to fail because, to paraphrase John Barrowman’s old Torchwood intro, that was when everything changed, and they weren’t ready. Arrow was never meant to become anything more than We’re-Not-Legally-Allowed-to-Call-This-Batman-The-TV-Show-But-Come-On-Who-Are-We-Kidding. Superpowers, magic, time travel, alternate realities – these just don’t go well with Arrow, yet along came The Flash, characters like John Constantine and Damien Darhk, the ongoing clusterfuck that is Legends of Tomorrow and Earth-2 and Supergirl (I’ve lost track of which different numbered Earth it calls home, at least for now).

Now Arrow is the quickly greying papa of three candy-colored creations, and wherease Flash and Supergirl get by on heart and Legends on camp Arrow is taking a stab at grit being its calling card again. This coming after a season which attempted to lighten the tone and focus more on Oliver and Felicity’s domestic drama. Now, it feels like Stephen Amell and company are making one last desperate push to reclaim some of the thunder which Daredevil stole from them, although now even Daredevil has fallen prey to the Iron Man 2 problem of sacrificing story and identity to set up spin-offs.

And as individual episodes go, Flash and Arrow‘s new season premieres were both perfectly fine, even if Flash‘s Flashpoint story was probably oversold in the advertising and Arrow‘s attempt at a helicoptor chase was the cheapest-looking thing the show’s ever done.
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Over in Star City, Oliver had a problem he stubbornly refused to acknowledge, as is his way. Felicity fired off some one-liners. The Green Arrow killed some people, and Thea became the latest in a long line of allies to more or less argue, “Dude, killing people? Not cool!” The flashbacks filled time. And the main villain showed up at the end, looking every bit like a dark mirror of Oliver, i.e., another archer. Along the way, they returned Quentin to his season 1 recovering alcoholic mode, teased the next step for Olicity and made it clear Oliver’s time as mayor will only barely have more impact on storytlines than his tenure Queen Consolidated’s CEO.

We’re several seasons in on both of these shows. We know what to expect by now. At the end of the day, Arrow is still Arrow and The Flash is still The Flash. The key difference between the two is that Grant Gustin’s earnestness (and his lovable supporting cast) lends his show a perpetually endearing quality whereas Stephen Amell’s endless angst (and hit and miss supporting cast who are usually misused) lends his show a progressively more annoying sense of doom and “manpain.” It doesn’t appear as if that’s changing anytime soon.

Edited October 7, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Other Forbes Guy reviewed 501 and loved it - again, I don't agree with everything said...

Wait A Second, Why Was The 'Arrow' Premiere Fantastic?
Paul Tassi   Oct. 6, 2016
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/10/06/wait-a-second-why-was-the-arrow-premiere-fantastic/#7ab3bc9571be

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Needless to say, I had low expectations for the season five premiere, but instead I was greeted with one of the best episodes of Arrow I’ve seen in ages, and one that gives me confidence that maybe, just maybe, the show can get back on track this year.
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Arrow used to be one of the best-choreographed shows on TV, but the last two years, the show has been bogged down with Green Arrow, Speedy, Diggle, Black Canary and other special guests (Nyssa, Malcolm, Roy) fighting endless amounts of generic soldiers or League of Assassin ninjas in really boring fights where everyone is just spinning around and whacking people with bows or swords.
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Last night there were some genuinely great fights again, including the opener with Oliver and Anarky, which was a 1v1 about 30 times better than what we saw with Oliver and Dahrk in the finale last year. Later, as Oliver squares off against Church and hits him with an exploding arrow, sending him flying across the room, I actually yelled out “OH!” genuinely surprised and amazed by a hit for the first time in a long, long while. More of this, less ninjas, please.
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Again, part of the reason the action was good was because it was just Oliver, or at most, Oliver and Speedy fighting. And Felicity is back to doing what she does best, acting as Overwatch and being snarky, with no more romantic relationship with Oliver on the table. It felt like the old days, like season one and two.
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Part of the reason I liked Arrow in the first place back in season one was because Oliver wasn’t the type of hero who would whine about killing bad guys because of some sense of absolutism about the immortality of killing in any circumstance. Then, during season two, that’s exactly what happened, with Oliver having a road to Damascus moment because of Tommy, and sparing the life of even someone like Deathstroke who murdered his own mother in front of him.
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Past the action, past the new villains, the character interactions simply just worked in this premiere. Oliver’s realization that Malcolm was right and he needed to be willing to go further to truly protect the ones he loved was on point. His relationship with Felicity is back on track in a non-annoying way, and she’s now dating someone else, meaning she’s no longer entirely dependent on Oliver as a character. Diggle made a nice cameo, Thea’s rationale for not wanting to don her suit again was logical, and Quentin Lance’s road to recovery was actually pretty touching.

Even the one moment that fans are complaining about, I thought worked. That would be Laurel revealing her “secret” to Oliver, the fact that she didn’t want to be the last Black Canary, as a way to carry on her legacy. I actually thought this was a fitting request from her, and I do not subscribe to the theory that this means that Felicity is going to become the next Black Canary, like fans seem to think. If that does happen, I will be as mad as anyone else, but I just don’t see that being the case. Remember, we’ve already seen Oliver start to assemble a new team, including the young girl who was pretending to be the Canary after Laurel’s death last season. She, not Felicity, seems like the prime candidate. Despite all the show’s issues with Felicity, I just can’t believe they’d ever give her mask, much less that mask.

I really loved this premiere, and I haven’t felt that way about Arrow in a very, very long time. I don’t know if a single solid episode will be representative of a great season, but this is exactly the refresh the show needed coming into this year, and I hope it continues on this track.

Edited October 7, 2016 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

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Oliver went back to lying and keeping information from Felicity “for her own protection” and Felicity turned into a clingy damsel in distress.

When did either of these things ever happen last season????  Or ever????

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I do not subscribe to the theory that this means that Felicity is going to become the next Black Canary, like fans seem to think. If that does happen, I will be as mad as anyone else, but I just don’t see that being the case. Remember, we’ve already seen Oliver start to assemble a new team, including the young girl who was pretending to be the Canary after Laurel’s death last season. She, not Felicity, seems like the prime candidate. Despite all the show’s issues with Felicity, I just can’t believe they’d ever give her mask, much less that mask.

Does anyone actually seriously think this????  The only times I've seen the idea was as a joke or a comment on how able EBR probably would be to do it given her fitness routine.  So weird, but this is from the dude that think's Laurel request was fitting so yeah, I probably shouldn't give it another thought. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

You could have told me that Olicity was still dating in this episode and I would have believed it. 

Their interactions were more S4a(minus the touching and kissing) to me than S1/S2. 

Its amazing how just saying they aren't dating fixes all these problems for some reviewers. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

You could have told me that Olicity was still dating in this episode and I would have believed it. 

Oliver was definitely doing the puppy dog eyes of complete and utter adoration while Felicity was halfway between "I'm kinda mad at you but you're being so cute and stubborn and hot and I could jump you right now although I really, really shouldn't." If there had been no boyfriend with tiny hands, and the show just said O&F had been banging all summer, I would have totally believed it. Though I would have been mad for not being able to see it, of course.

Edited October 7, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[BkWurm1]

Their dating is never the issue.  Their romance is never the issue.  TPTB deviating from their natural chemistry by creating a forced drama and then focusing on that conflict while they are in a romance is the problem. 

How many times does the audience have to spell it out?  Let the conflict come from the outside.  No one EVER likes it when team members are on the outs for longer than part of an episode.  (I don't care in what sense of the word team is used, it always applies whether we are talking an ensemble cast, partners, couples, besties, siblings, mother/daughter duos - nobody EVER likes it when the dynamic that made them watch the show is taken away and replaced with angst) Let their natural individual reactions to the outside conflict form the storyline.  It's what worked to make the viewers watch in the first place.  

[looptab]

16 hours ago, Chaser said:

Its amazing how just saying they aren't dating fixes all these problems for some reviewers. 

 

I'm starting to think that the Mayo BF reveal was more for these people than for anything else. Like they are saying 'don't worry, she's with someone else now, relax'.

Of course, I don't believe that they will actually shelve Olicity, but that they want to 'trick' the apparently less TV-savvy audience? Hell yeah.

[tv echo]

Arrow 5×01 Review: Moving Forward
2 DAYS AGO by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x01-review-moving-forward/

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Thea voiced my concern exactly when she told Oliver that putting killing back on the table was a step backward. There it is. My least favorite thing (other than Lauriver): character regression. Come on, Arrow, you’re usually better than this. Leave it to The Flash to do character regression.
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While Oliver and Felicity weren’t romantically involved they might as well have been given the extremely flirty nature on both ends. The reason why Olicity is even a thing is because of the organic chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards. Throughout the years they’ve proven that even in instances with non-romantic implications that their chemistry cannot be matched. And sometimes it’s in those non-romantic moments where their chemistry truly shines. But then again, it’s the subtle nods from Amell and Rickards where they communicate their characters’ feelings in a moment that makes certain scenes stand out.

[tv echo]

Craig Wack and Tatiana Torres are back with their reviews of tv superhero shows this week (I mostly listened to the Arrow segment)...

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 46
Posted on 10/07/2016
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- I did catch the tail end of their Flash review: They both felt uncomfortable with the WestAllen romance because Barry & Iris grew up as siblings and, no matter that the Flashpoint timeline changed that so Iris no longer knew about that relationship, Barry still knew and still had this romantic interest in his "sister." Craig viewed Barry Allen as a villain - someone who's very selfish and who keeps messing with the timeline in order to create his own perfect world.  Tatiana noted that Oliver makes decisions for other people all the time but he does it because he's trying to protect them; however, "there's nothing about the decisions Barry makes - outside of, you know, trying to protect his mom - that is ever for another person. It's always for what he wants and what will make him happy." Craig said that Flash used to be that show you looked forward to, but now it's that show you dread on Tuesday nights.

-- Craig said that Arrow "got off to a much better start" and Tatiana said that "Arrow was fantastic." It reminded Craig of when Agents of SHIELD reset their show.  Craig thought that this was the first episode of Arrow "in a long, long time" that felt like an episode of Arrow.

-- They noted that things that happened and lessons learned by Oliver in the flashbacks are now directly related to what's going on in the present (breaking out of the handcuffs). Tatiana noted that, unlike last season, there's already lots of forward momentum in the flashbacks (meeting his old friend and trying to get initiated into Bratva).

-- Tatiana thought that Diggle's scene was "organic' and also showed that the Oliver/Diggle bond was still there.

-- Tatiana thought that Thea "was still the worst, as usual," but Craig disagreed. Craig thought that Laurel was the worst (see below).

-- Craig thought that Felicity "was in the best Felicity form." She was all banter-y with Oliver and was being "the mother hen that she is."

-- As for the Felicity boyfriend reveal, Tatiana said that she's just going to pretend that that didn't happen: "Nope, no snippet happened at the end." Craig laughed and said that this cop "probably doesn't know a salmon ladder from a sit-up." They joked that this cop (played by Tyler Ritter, who played Ward's brother in Agents of SHIELD) probably has no physical or emotional scars and that he's probably all happy.

-- Craig then commented on what he considered "a large black stain on what was otherwise a good episode" and noted that he wasn't referring to the Black Canary statue "that looked like it was made of cheese."  (He also noted that poor Thea couldn't find anything to cover her legs and looked like she was freezing out there.) He's referring, of course, to the Laurel flashback scene - how she was "awful beyond the grave." Craig noted that this was supposed to be the impetus for Oliver putting a new team together, but he said that "this was such terrible retconning, it makes me sick." Craig noted that last season, Laurel was fine and recovering right before this flashback scene took place. But now, she's saying, "don't let me be the last Canary," which totally takes away the shock of her death because it makes it seem like she knew she was going to die. He also noted that, while she was dying, "Imitation Canary was roaming around... trying to steal the Canary's shit. It's all just too much." Tatiana wasn't as angry about the retconning, but was just glad that it was done and that she isn't coming back. She also thought that no one deserved such an ugly statue. They're interpreting Laurel's words as paving the way for "Imitation Canary" (Evelyn Sharp) to come back, just like Sara's death paved the way for Laurel to become Black Canary. Craig called it "karma."

-- Craig thought that Oliver "was the right amount of dark" and also said that the show is "stronger when Oliver Queen has to deal with the world, rather than just the Arrow." 

-- Tatiana liked that, in Oliver's interactions with Felicity, although there's relationship drama (because she's dating someone new), "the Ollie/Felicity chemistry was still there." So "it's not like where you also have this thing bringing down the episode where they're not talking and making everything else uncomfortable." They're still talking and confiding in each other, and although there's this part that's still "broken", it's not the main part of the story.

-- Tatiana laughed that Chad Coleman's character was carrying a bat, since he played Tyrese on The Walking Dead.

Edited October 8, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

BACK TO BASICS: ARROW 5X01 REVIEW (LEGACY) 
jbuffyangel  OCTOBER 06, 2016 @ 02:57
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/151418343303/back-to-basics-arrow-5x01-review-legacy

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One of my chief complaints with killing Damien Darhk is that we’ve been there and done that. It didn’t explore any real new ground. As I wrote in my wrap up, Oliver is always going to have a reason to kill the bad guys because they are BAD GUYS. The point is to draw a line in the sand. The point is to find your way through the grey to some kind of moral code. I can’t help but feel that Arrow has set “thou shall not kill” as the pinnacle of The Green Arrow’s evolution and we can’t get to that point until Oliver is The Green Arrow… so here we go. Regression Version 3423.0.
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Essentially, Laurel is 2.0 Tommy. Tommy launched The Arrow and Laurel will launch The Green Arrow. To make the shift more noticeable to our average viewer, Arrow is just getting the regression out of the way right off the bat. They are making his attitude more like Season 1 Oliver, due to Laurel’s death, so when he progresses into the final version of The Green Arrow by the end of the season, or at least pretty damn close to it, it feels like Oliver has grown by leaps and bounds. Thus, the Great L*urel L*nce had a profound impact on him and his legacy.
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The love between Oliver and Felicity is still very much there.  Don’t doubt it for a second. It’s in the looks. It’s in the sexual tension. It’s in the ease in which they know each other. It’s the elephant in the room. And Felicity isn’t happy… she’s covering for some major PTSD. We know that’s coming. The scene with the boyfriend is to make you THINK she’s moved on, just like she’s telling Oliver to. But Felicity isn’t moving on… she’s hiding.

Honestly, I can’t even get worked up over Detective. I can’t even work up the energy to look for a gif for him. After dating Oliver Queen, every other man just feels like a downgrade. Even Superman was a downgrade. 
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When someone dies it’s natural to overlook their faults and almost glorify them in a sense. It can get to the point where you don’t even recognize who they’re talking about. That’s pretty much what happened in “Legacy” with Laurel.
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In fact, now that Laurel is dead, the entire team is focusing on her way more than they ever did when she was alive. The" What Would Laurel Do" refrain was not only repetitive, it was inconsistent. Inconsistency with LL is one of the only consistent things about her, so I’m not that upset. Inconsistency, even in death, feels like a warm blanket. Oh… but we’re gonna talk about it.

When did Laurel become the paragon of moral fortitude and righteousness? When did she ever voice an aversion to killing? If memory serves, Laurel has pumped a few bullets into her fair share. 
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Did she forget about Sara? HER SISTER??? Ya know… The Canary. 
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And why is Laurel acting like she’s the original Canary? SARA is the original Canary. You copied her. Not the other way around. 
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Laurel begging Oliver to have another BC fight alongside of him, so there would always be a piece of HER with him, was so completely narcissistic in nature it was rather fitting for the character come to think of it. If a person decides to become The Green Arrow of their own volition, that’s one thing. It’s quite another for The Green Arrow to say, “Hey make more Green Arrows so I live forever.” It’s the “all about me” approach to legacy. Rather than letting your legacy inspire on its own. Hard pass.
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Not enough Diggle. I miss Diggle. But who didn’t love that Olicity was one of his top concerns? Diggle is us. We are Diggle.  

Edited October 8, 2016 by tv echo

[EmeraldArcher]

Isn't jbuffyangel the same person who was FAWNING over MG at SDCC or another big con this summer?!  She gushed about how talented and magical he is or something.  She does realize his hands were all over the messes she pointed out in 501, right?

[bijoux]

Why would Laurel launch GA? Oliver has been GA for a year now. He was the Hood when Tommy died and that was a logical progression to the Arrow. I don't get the parallel here, really.

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Why would Laurel launch GA? Oliver has been GA for a year now. He was the Hood when Tommy died and that was a logical progression to the Arrow. I don't get the parallel here, really.

No idea, probably some fanwank she's had in her arsenal for years and, is just trying to twist the show to fit her theory.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Looks, this is the same woman who insists Sara is the love of Laurel's life. So don't expect any logic here. 

[apinknightmare]

Choo-choo, I guess!

[Chaser]

How does that fit into the fact that he became GA last season and Laurel's death caused him to regress?

[ComicFan777]

I'd say Laurel is Bizarro Tommy rather than V2 Tommy - her death caused the complete opposite of Tommy's death - he went back to killing.

[bijoux]

But did it really cause anything? Yes, he killed Darhk, but that was kill or let at least the city go down. I wouldn't even count that. It actually took six months to pass after Laurel's death for him to start killing again. It's also not the same situation as with Tommy, since Oliver was away from SC after that. Here he's been in the same environment, apparently not really changing his MO in any significant way for half a year. I don't see Laurel inspiring anything here, really.

[ComicFan777]

Didn't Oliver basically attribute him killing again because of Laurel's death (when he talked to Thea)?  
I took it that in Oliver's mind, Laurel's death inspired him to be a killer again because he thought Laurel's death would have been prevented if he was willing to kill all along instead of taking the high road.

[bijoux]

I believe it's what they meant to convey, but what I actually saw was Oliver managing on the streets without killing for 6 months and then pretty arbitrarily killing a bunch of goons low on the totem pole. Frankly, it didn't make much sense to me all around.

[apinknightmare]

I can't remember - do we know for sure that Oliver wasn't killing anyone before? I wasn't super interested in a lot of what was going on, and this is the first year I haven't bought a season pass on iTunes, so I can't rewatch - did Felicity mention the killing, or just Thea? Because Thea hasn't been suiting up all summer - she wouldn't know if he was killing before or not. 

[tangerine95]

Tbh it just seems to me that he's killing again because they wanted the brutal season 1 type of stunts and to recreate the pilot scene and it's more about that than Oliver's character development. I don't think it makes much sense that he goes back to killing and especially killing people who he can take down without having to kill. If it's a villain that can't be stopped any other way than I get it and it's been that way on the show for every big villain except Malcolm but killing random minor bad guys doesn't make sense imo. 

[bijoux]

Nothing was explicitly stated, but he did start off the episode with letting Lonnie Machin, a verified villanous nutso if ever there was one, live, so I took the killing later in the episode as a new development.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Nothing was explicitly stated, but he did start off the episode with letting Lonnie Machin, a verified villanous nutso if ever there was one, live, so I took the killing later in the episode as a new development.

Perhaps seeing Laurel's solid milk chocolate statue got him all murderous. 

[Chaser]

That's a feeling I understand.

10 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Tbh it just seems to me that he's killing again because they wanted the brutal season 1 type of stunts and to recreate the pilot scene and it's more about that than Oliver's character development. I don't think it makes much sense that he goes back to killing and especially killing people who he can take down without having to kill. If it's a villain that can't be stopped any other way than I get it and it's been that way on the show for every big villain except Malcolm but killing random minor bad guys doesn't make sense imo. 

Pretty much. 

[Sunshine]

His first kill was as Oliver not Green Arrow.  "No one can know my secret."

If anyone wants to rewatch I downloaded the CWapp and it works much better than the previous versions.  There were commercials but they were limited compared to watching live.  I don't know if you can fast forward though.  I didn't try..

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Perhaps seeing Laurel's solid milk chocolate statue got him all murderous. 

I don't know, i like the Cheese Statue better

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “Legacy”
Nora Dominick  Oct. 7, 2016
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-legacy/As always, Rickards remains a bright spot in the

Quote

... After last seasons “Olicity” storyline, Felicity is looking to help Team Arrow as much as possible. She’s the driving force behind building Team Arrow 2.0 and it’s great to see her involved once again. Rickards has grown Felicity so much in the last four seasons and she continues to always be a bright spot. Amell and Rickards sexual tension is also off the charts once again. “Olicity” is taking a break when Arrow returns and that’s honestly not the worst thing. The two characters need to grow apart before they can rebuild together.
*  *  *
The only downside to Felicity’s storyline in the premiere comes in the last minutes of the episode. Felicity returns home to her somewhat empty apartment and fans learn that she is now dating new SCPD officer, Detective Malone (Tyler Ritter). Although we knew this storyline was coming going into the season, it’s still disappointing. On our end, we were looking forward to Felicity standing alone and finding her way without Oliver or any man in her life (and no this isn’t just our “Olicity” shipper hearts being crushed). Felicity was originally presented as a strong, independent, female character and now she’s constantly being attached to other, male, storylines. While Detective Malone seems all well and good, we yearn for the days where Felicity could be the brains of Team Arrow without needing to date a man.
*  *  *
The one major downfall to a more violent Oliver emerging is that it almost feels like a step backwards. Season four of Arrow was all about Oliver finding the light within himself. That seems to have been totally erased. We are back to an Oliver that doesn’t care who he hurts on his way to save Star City. While this is a beautiful sight for Arrow fans that loved Oliver in season one, it’s a major step backwards for the man Oliver has become. His reasoning for killing again? Oliver tells Thea (Willa Holland) it’s to honor Laurel (Katie Cassidy) and so no one will die like she did. Thea tells Oliver that she can’t be part of this because it’s a major step backwards. We’re starting to think Thea might be right.
*  *  *
Laurel’s final words to Oliver were also revealed in this episode. She told Oliver that she doesn’t want to be the last Canary. She wants to make sure she’s always out there, fighting, with Oliver. Again, something that makes us a little nervous. It would be better to see another character flourish on their own merits as opposed to simply being pigeonholed in the Canary mantle. Also, why memorialize Laurel as Black Canary if the Canary mantle will continue?

Edited October 9, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Wait... Are those actual criticisms?

Isnt this the reviewer who says every episode is the best one ever?

[tv echo]

Arrow 5x01 Review: "Legacy" (Planting Seeds in a Garden)
Just About Write   Oct. 8, 2016
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2016/10/arrow-5x01-review-legacy-planting-seeds.html

Quote

I may be in the minority here, but I am totally okay with Felicity having a new boyfriend. We all know that eventually, Oliver and Felicity will get back together anyway. Right now, she needs to move forward with her life, just like Oliver does. That means that eventually the relationship between the two will be stronger because they will realize what it took to get back to one another. I believe in angst and all of that, and sometimes I enjoy that in relationships. But this isn't angst. This is rebuilding. It's demolishing everything that soured us (or, well, maybe just me) toward the relationship last year — the lies, the betrayal, the mistrust — and starting over with a new foundation. I have faith, not in the Arrow writers necessarily (because goodness knows there are a million ways they can screw this up), but in the story itself. It's a tale as old as time, and it will continue to be long after Oliver and Felicity are gone from our TV screens. Have faith in the story, and if you cannot, then have faith in your favorite characters.

[tv echo]

No spoilers (if you've watched 501)...

Chad Coleman on KTLA talking about his role on Arrow
Published on Oct 6, 2016, by rana kosec

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Legacy (Season 5 Episode 1)
October 6, 2016  Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://telltaletv.com/2016/10/arrow-review-legacy-season-5-episode-1/

Quote

That’s perfect. That’s commendable. It’s just that they don’t seem to quite understand *what* this show is about, or why we fell in love with it in the first place.

Sure, the action sequences are breathtaking, the flashbacks are finally interesting and Tobias Church seems like a worthy villain. It all has a Season 1 vibe to it.

But this show has never been just about the fights, or about the vigilantes. It’s not about the cops or even the city.

It’s about the relationships. About a man fighting his way out of the darkness and into the light. About the people who showed him the way.

Yes, Diggle is still there. He’s lost himself, but he hasn’t completely abandoned Oliver.

Thea is still around. She doesn’t want to be a vigilante, but that doesn’t mean she’s gone.

Quentin left, but came back. He’s a mess, but he hasn’t completely given up.

And yes, Felicity is still there. She’s in full avoidance mode, having “moved on” with her life not only because that’s the healthy thing (which it is), but because it’s easier than confronting what they both did wrong to ruin their relationship.

But she’s there. They’re all there.
*  *  *
Why then, does it feel like they’re orbiting different planets? Like they don’t really affect each other the way they used to? Like they don’t make each other better?

It’s okay to go back to your roots, Arrow. Just don’t go so far back that you forget what you gained on the way.

These people are meant to be a family. And yes, this a superhero show, but superhero doesn’t mean just action.
*  *  *
The Green Arrow is not as interesting as Oliver Queen. Don’t forget that, Arrow.
*  *  *
Other things to note:
- I get that sets are expensive and all that, but why the loft? Why the loft?
- Does consistency mean nothing to you, Arrow?
- By the way, where exactly is Oliver living these days?
- I also get that Felicity is not the main character, but it seems to me like it’s been forever since we’ve gotten to see her POV of anything. I’m not asking for the show to revolve around her, I just want to understand how she feels about …well, about whatever. Even her choice of wardrobe for the day. Anything would be better than what I’m getting, aka not.a.single.thing.
- The retcon of Laurel Lance’s character is the most absurd thing this show has ever done. If the line had been “Don’t let me be the last Canary,” I would have liked it. Why add that thing at the end about always being with Oliver? You’re not selling me back the romance you killed and buried in Season 2, Arrow writers. Give it up.
- We all agree that the real reason why Quentin was crying was because that statue was the ugliest thing he’d ever seen in his entire life, right?
- Is Laurel Lance going to be our excuse for everything, or just Oliver’s sudden character regression into someone that doesn’t mind dropping bodies?
- Though, to be honest, with a better explanation, I would have bought the Oliver thing. All I needed was a line that made it clear that he knew the cost to his soul, but he was willing to sacrifice that for the greater good. All I needed.
- Why wasn’t Felicity at Laurel’s memorial? I thought they were BFFS off-screen.

Edited October 9, 2016 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

I really agree with that review, I think the reason why I didn't really like the premiere or the finale of season 4 is because they focused so much on the action and the mission part of the show and not very much on the relationships between the characters. It kinda just felt empty to me. And when they do give us character interactions it's mostly about Laurel lately, that seriously has to stop because basing everything on her and her memory is making it all fall flat because the character they're pretending Laurel was never existed on screen.

[statsgirl]

I completely agree with that review but unfortunately I'm not the only fanbase the show has to please.  For some reviewers and fans, they want the complete opposite, a show that is about adventure and fighting bad guys and where girls are icky and have cooties, like the AV Club critic who complained that there was actually 20 seconds spent on Felicity that wasn't about Oliver or homage to Laurel.  (For them, I recommend The Flash.)

I don't envy the writers trying to please both groups.

On 2016-10-06 at 11:01 AM, Ann Mack said:

I usually like Robert Dougherty's (The Movie Network) reviews:

http://www.themovienetwork.com/review/arrow-s5-e1-legacy

I really like his cynicism:

Quote

It didn't start that way in each case, as the first episodes of the last two seasons kicked off with such promise, along with the next several episodes after that. It was about in the seventh/eighth episodes of each season that the wheels really started coming off and never really spun back on. As such, there still has to be caution about whether this third straight promising premiere will actually be the charm.
-------
Going back to the last steps of how the killer Hood was born does remind us of how Season 1 Oliver was a dark, desolate dead weight a lot of the time before Diggle and Felicity came around. An even bigger reminder comes in how Season 5 Oliver drags things down in Legacy the more that no one can get through to him.

But in truth, it is equally similar to how Oliver just expected things to go back to normal with Felicity an episode after their breakup, when he wasn't actually willing to do the real work of truly fixing things, or confronting the impulses that made him lie and conceal to her in the first place. Considering how Arrow did everything possible to stop him from even trying afterwards, all so they could delay the process till later this season or the next year, it reminds us that both Oliver and the writers need to try much harder and go much deeper to change for good this season, since this year may be their last plausible chance to find redemption.
--------
But this appears to be the first season ever that isn't revolving around a killer Thea, or a half-Merlyn Thea, or a Thea being kept in the dark by family lies. If it actually sticks for longer than a few episodes, so much the better, especially if Willa Holland keeps taking advantage like she does in Legacy.
-----
 Hopefully it says something that Felicity's new boyfriend is seen with her right before Prometheus attacks, and that we will be spared him being Prometheus and spared an episode of a jealous Oliver suspecting he is. But if they avoid using that premise in at least one episode, it may well be the most shocking twist of the season.
-----
For this first step, however, Legacy earns a 7 on the TMN.com scale but is really closer to a 7.5. At the least, this season premiere provides more of a bang and of a solid way forward through potential potholes than The Flash premiere does. But as always when it comes to Arrow, the difficult part is actually going forward in the right way for 22 more episodes after that.

Edited October 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent on season 5 premiere of 'Arrow': And we're back!
October 7, 2016
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2016/10/07/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-season-5-episode-1/

Quote

LK: I hadn’t really thought about the negatives of a new team — other than the “trying on for fit” aspects. I do think we need at least one new character and probably two. Laurel’s death definitely leaves a hole that needs to be filled — and I always like it when they add that bit extra.

I do think there will probably be a few painful moments as they (both Oliver in the show and the producers in casting) try to find the right fit. I am hoping we get a few humorous moments and that then they manage to find that right piece. I definitely think we’ll have a new Black Canary by the end of the season (Laurel’s big promise), and there are definite indications that Curtis will become Mr. Terrific. I am not sure whether anybody else will stick. I am hoping that the producers continue to have a good sense of what is working and what isn’t. I’ve always thought that one of the more brilliant things about the show was that they didn’t insist on Laurel and Oliver being together when the chemistry just wasn’t working. I am hoping that the producers continue to have those good instincts. We need a new team member (or two) but they need to be the right ones.
*  *  *
Mayor Queen, after a brief chat with the fallen-off-the-wagon Lance, heads to the waterfront to dedicate a new statue of the Black Canary. (OMG, who designed that thing? Hideous.) ...
*  *  *
LK: I agree that Oliver is best when he’s mostly dark. It’s a careful balance because he definitely needs a strong moral compass. I think that’s part of the problem with Oliver’s partial break from Felicity. She has always been the conscience of the show, and he needs her to balance him. I hope they get back to that balance, whether romantically or not.
*  *  *
AB: They had a flashback of Laurel telling Oliver not to let her be the last Canary. I loved that. I would much prefer the show create one partner for Oliver (a new Canary) than a whole team of people. Truthfully, Curtis is not one of my favorite characters. I WANTED to like him, but he just didn’t do it for me last season, and I don’t like the idea of him being a main character this season. I can’t really put my finger on it … his shirts? Him being too much like Felicity? I don’t know. I’ll try not to judge the others, but I’m hoping that this whole new team is going to be a big failure.
*  *  *
LK: The other big surprise at the end was, of course, discovering that Felicity had a new boyfriend, Detective Malone.

AB: I didn’t see that coming, but I don’t know why it needed to be a big secret and big reveal. Is she keeping it from Oliver? Where did they meet? When? Why reveal it at the end? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? It should be interesting … though necessary? I don’t know. I’ll reserve judgment.

LK: I am definitely not sure why it was a secret. Is she trying to not hurt Oliver? Feels he’s been through enough? I have to admit I am convinced he’s going to be a bad guy, but then I thought that about Thea’s boyfriend last year and nothing ever came of it, so I am just not sure.

Edited October 11, 2016 by tv echo

[EmilyBettFan]

Thank you tv echo!

[Thundercatmary]

Interview with Marc G, this article makes me for sure think that Mayo is for sure an Olicity stall, at least that's how I interpret it. Also some interesting comments on Felicity and Havenrock. 

http://mashable.com/2016/10/12/arrow-season-5-episode-2-recruits-olicity-prometheus/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#bigtcQ7qYaq0

Edited October 13, 2016 by Thundercatmary

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Forefront in his mind is this notion of recruiting this new team, and as the season progresses, eventually it will turn Oliver’s attention towards the specificity of that promise of a new Black Canary, and we’ll have to see what happens.  

Hell no. 

[calliope1975]

It's like TIIC are just going to keep trying to do Black Canary until they get it right. Never mind that they got it right the first time. How many more versions do we need?

[BkWurm1]

I was fine with a new Canary ( I mean, I thought it was stupid to pass on Sara's mantle but whatever) but BLACK Canary?  Are they really going there?  Maybe the storyline will be that there isn't another Black Canary?  Pretty Please?

Edited October 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

Not that I disagree (at all), but I'm wondering if this should go in the Spoiler Discussion thread?