The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tarotx]

Batman v Superman v DC's Legends of Tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o

Edited March 18, 2016 by tarotx

[Starfish35]

Haha, I'm not sure I understand what you don't understand?

I guess it sounds like you're saying that shows will tend to cater to whatever faction of fandom is the loudest. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

[dtissagirl]

I guess it sounds like you're saying that shows will tend to cater to whatever faction of fandom is the loudest. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

 

Not the show -- the media that covers the show.

 

But I do think there's some influence to the show itself when the creatives agree with the largest sect of fandom. I don't think it has to do with being "loudest", but in significant statistics of the volume of content produced, which is what the networks are looking for.

Edited March 17, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Starfish35]

Oh!! *lightbulb* Yes, that I agree with, definitely. I just was confused, because the other is basically the "fan pandering" argument, and that wasn't a position I would have expected you to take. :) Hence my deep confusion. Sorry!!

[jay741982]

Batman v Superman v DC's Legends of Tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFieIQ8Eo0

Yay! CL said Batman!!

Where's the Arrow Cast giving their Opinions?

[dtissagirl]

Hee, no problem.

 

As an aside, I probably have less of a problem with the idea of fanservice than most people here, because I totally watch TV based on whether shows are catering to my entertainment. 'Shipping preferences included. If Arrow hadn't gone with O/F, I would have parted ways with the show and not looked back. I just don't see them picking the O/F lane as pandering. I see it as a really great business decision. It just so happened to fit my preferences, so I feel extremely well fanserviced by Arrow.

Edited March 17, 2016 by dtissagirl

[NumberCruncher]

I guess I just roll my eyes so hard whenever anyone in the media tries to make a blanket statement that the show's romance is somehow written only to pander to teenage girls. That kind of generalization both blindly reduces people's interest to only one aspect of the show (which I've yet to see be the case for most people I've interacted with) and ignores that people of all ages have been known to enjoy comic book-based romantic relationships since the inception of the genre. Case in point--only yesterday one of my male coworkers who is a single, 40-something computer geek noticed the Oliver and Felicity Funko figures sitting on a shelf in my office and made a comment about how much he really liked them and the show. The conversation evolved to other comic-based TV shows currently airing of which he is a fan. The guy just really likes comic-based TV/movies and all that comes with them. When he left I couldn't help but conclude that there are probably a lot more out there like him who are comic fans but aren't out there posting on every message board and comic book website about how their comic story is being tainted by icky girl stuff. In Arrow's case, the existence of these types of people goes a long way in explaining why its ratings have been ridiculously consistent for over the last 3 seasons. People can bitch all they want that the show panders to the shipper fangirls but clearly not only has the romance aspect not hurt viewership, but a large portion of these "fangirls" must be sporting some serious facial hair if the demos are to be believed.

Edited March 17, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[statsgirl]

Laura Hurley

‏@lah9891

I love seeing certain Arrow fans referred to as "teenage girls." I could craft a way better argument when I was a teenage girl.

[TwistedandBored]

I love her and she is soo part of this forum. 

[BkWurm1]

Batman v Superman v DC's Legends of Tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFieIQ8Eo0

For some reason I adored Brandon Routh's response. Where is that smolder when I want it on tv?

[tarotx]

Batman v Superman v DC's Legends of Tomorrow

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o

Oops I had thought I posted this in the LOT media thread-I wondered here my post over there went >.<

[tv echo]

No surprise - Bamford tweeted this article link...

 

‘Arrow’ Season 4: Counting Down the 15 Best Moments (So Far)
Matt Lozano 23h ago
https://hiddenremote.com/2016/03/17/arrow-season-4-counting-15-best-moments-far/

 

#15 Captain Lance Works with Darhk
#14 Amanda Waller's Shocking Death
#13 Andy Diggle Lives
#12 Green Arrow Returns
#11 Damien Dahrk's First Appearance
#10 Felicity Stands (and Leaves Oliver)
#9 Oliver Calls Out Darhk
#8 Thea's Immunity
#7 Vixen Destroys Darhk's Totem
#6 Team Arrow Battles Darhk's Ghosts
#5 Darhks Captures Oliver's Son
#4 Ladies and Gentlemen, John Constantine
#3 Felicity's Midseason Fate
#2 Oliver Duels Malcolm (and Severs His Hand)
#1 Thea Fights Andy Diggle

Edited March 18, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

 

#6 Team Arrow Battles Darhk's Ghosts

Which time?

Edited March 18, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

Which time?

 

I was just typing that. *shakes fist*

[looptab]

I was just typing that. *shakes fist*

Bwahahahah :) 

[tarotx]

Maybe when the Ghost were new with summer team arrow from the season premiere.

 

Or When Team Arrow rescues Ray.

 

Though I guess it could have been the over all team arrow fight that included both Thea&Andy's fight and Thea's Immunity. 

[kismet]

Am I the only person that thinks tq v. Andy was really overrated? It was cool, but it wasn't earth shattering. For me it certainly wasn't top of the list.

[BkWurm1]

Am I the only person that thinks tq v. Andy was really overrated? It was cool, but it wasn't earth shattering. For me it certainly wasn't top of the list.

Only from a filming standpoint since it was a long continuous shot.  But otherwise, it was only pretty good.  There was no emotion behind it. 

[EmilyBettFan]

Am I the only person that thinks tq v. Andy was really overrated? It was cool, but it wasn't earth shattering. For me it certainly wasn't top of the list.

yeah I didn't get what was so special. I mean I understand the use of stunt doubles (especially with what happened to Dylan O'Brien on the set of the third Maze Runner film) but correct me if I'm wrong but we didn't see either of their faces in the fight, did we?

[tv echo]

Video snippet of TMZ guy saying that EBR is "super hot"...

 

TMZ on TV - 'Arrow' and 'Flash' Star Emily Bett Rickards, Total Felicity Smoak Show
http://www.hulu.com/watch/877161

[statsgirl]

I don't think has been posted before:

 

Arrow's John Barrowman Gives a Hands-On Preview of Malcolm's New Look

 

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/73302/arrow-john-barrowman-dc-all-access-video-malcolm-merlyn-hand

[DeadZeus]

The episode 7 fightscene against the ghosts/andy is the only scene this season that comes close to s1-s3 fightscene standards. Was hoping to see more of that following that episode.

 

But the list is pretty lame, as in Vixen destroying the Totem was lame as hell, if thats one of the top moments then.. wow...

[bijoux]

I don't think has been posted before:

 

Arrow's John Barrowman Gives a Hands-On Preview of Malcolm's New Look

 

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/73302/arrow-john-barrowman-dc-all-access-video-malcolm-merlyn-hand

 

So there's the explanation why Malcolm still has a sling.

[tv echo]

Arrow: 12 Greatest Plots Of The Series So Far
Laura Hurley  Mar. 20, 2016
http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-12-greatest-plots-of-the-series-so-far.php

Arrow got off to an unexpected start when it introduced its hero as a man who’s super into killing bad guys whenever convenient for him. Oliver Queen going dead behind the eyes and snapping necks to preserve his secret was a heck of a scary way to sell the good guy, but it was one of the best moves that Arrow has ever made.

By starting Oliver off in the darkness, the show set him on an overall arc that has guided the narrative even when plots du jour go off the rails. Arrow is fundamentally the story of a hero’s journey, and that never would have worked if Oliver hadn’t started out as a killer.
*  *  *
Oliver as a killer was certainly compelling from the beginning, but he was also much too intense for the show to be any fun if every episode was just going to be him living a double life and delivering expository voiceovers. Luckily, Arrow didn’t take too long to figure out that the way to make Oliver more likable was to give him some likable characters to interact with openly.

Diggle joining Oliver’s mission was a relief right off the bat just because Oliver having somebody to talk to meant that he could stop with the terrible voiceovers. Oliver also began to feel more human with Digg as a companion. Felicity coming on board brightened up the lair as well as the brooding boys lurking in it. Once the trio of Team Arrow established, Oliver got to show a funny side in addition to all the gloom and doom. He finally felt like a real person, and he became a character worth rooting for instead of just watching.
*  *  *
Oliver rarely showed genuine shades of pre-island Ollie after coming back from Lian Yu, but the closest he’s come has been with the women he’s bedded. He did a lot of thinking with his downstairs brain even into Season 2 when he was on his upswing, and Oliver tends to get himself into trouble with his downstairs brain. How many viewers exactly wanted to high-five him after his quickie with Isabel Rochev while Diggle was rotting in a Russian gulag? He didn’t even shower afterward.

Oliver has been much more appealing as a character since jumping on the monogamy bandwagon in Season 3. Even when he felt that he couldn’t be with the woman he loved, he didn’t regress to his philandering ways. Romance has been a part of Arrow from the very beginning, and Oliver feels much more like a hero as a one-woman man than when he was swapping Lance sisters and/or sleeping with villainesses. Admittedly, the baby mama melodrama of Season 4 has been a huge misstep, but Felicity has been very good for Oliver. Hopefully, the show will stop regressing Oliver to the point of stupidity and get Olicity back on track in the background.

 

12.  Oliver Was a Killer
11.  Building Team Arrow
10.  The Undertaking
9.  No-Assembly-Required Canary
8.  The Count Vertigo Trilogy
7.  The Flash Is Born
6.  Oliver Vs. Slade
5.  The I-Love-You Switcheroo
4.  Thea Finds Out
3.  Roy Survives
2.  A Monogamous Hero
1.  Damien Darhk Is Super Evil

Edited March 20, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's fangirlish's speculation (but no actual, confirmed spoilers) - warning: rest of article (not quoted) includes spoilery hints...

 

Why Black Canary Can Certainly Die on ‘Arrow’

March 16, 2016
http://fangirlish.com/why-black-canary-can-certainly-die-on-arrow/

When it comes to Arrow, something that has always been a topic of conversation is the whole comic book of it all when it comes to show canon. There are some people that find it hard to believe that Laurel Lance – aka the Black Canary – can actually die on Arrow. Their defense is: “But she’s the Black Canary. The show certainly can’t kill her. She’s essential to the Green Arrow’s story.”
 

Now, this is something that we’ve heard often throughout the series whenever it came to Laurel’s role on the show from everything to her relationship with Oliver to her becoming the Black Canary to her seemingly safe future on this show. But if you tuned into Arrow in hopes to see a certain comic book version of Green Arrow come to life then you’re watching the wrong show. Arrow is its own entity.
 

But from the beginning Arrow has never tried to appear as something straight out of comic books. It’s always made it clear that Arrow was based on Green Arrow, who didn’t have a history that was as recognizable to the general public, and that this show was the producers own unique version that just so happened to include popular names from those comics, like Green Arrow and Black Canary, but also new names that weren’t even in the comics, like Felicity Smoak and John Diggle.
 

So this whole concept that Arrow isn’t like the comics isn’t a new revelation. It’s something that has been relevant since the show’s first season. With that said, the producers have free reign to make decisions as they see fit. ... (Read more)

Edited March 21, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This guy thinks that what's working this season so far is a better Oliver, Laurel, Thea and Darhk, and that what's not working so far is a worse Felicity (yes, he's another guy who's criticizing her for breaking up with Oliver right after he recorded the goodbye message for his son), flashbacks and Diggle's helmet...

 

CW Progress Report: ‘Arrow’
by Trenton Jocz 18h ago
https://hiddenremote.com/2016/03/22/cw-progress-report-arrow/

It’s been something of a bounceback season for Arrow. Though it hasn’t approached its lofty heights of Season 2, when it was one of the very best shows on all of television, it is, for the most part, back to being a competent show on a week-to-week basis. It’s often been better than its more hyped counterpart, The Flash. It’s been a season of change, as Oliver gained and then lost his secret son, Felicity lost and then regained the ability to walk, Malcolm lost not just a hand, but his whole army. On top of all that, there’s a grave with somebody who is presumably important in it that has yet to be revealed.
*  *  *
The creative team wisely left themselves some wiggle room by not pinning down the identity of whomever’s six feet under in the flashforward teasers. With that said, it would be a bit of a letdown if the victim turned out to be some random, like a friend of Thea’s from the club who’s had two episodes of screen time or something. The death has to both matter and not be cliché, a tricky feat to pull off....

Edited March 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Password]

Did people want her to not break up with him at all or wait until the next day when he isn't as raw?

[lemotomato]

Did people want her to not break up with him at all or wait until the next day when he isn't as raw?

Not break up with him at all. Because apparently Oliver was totally in the right to keep the kid a secret from her, and it wasn't her place to know about the kid. So she had no right to be upset. She would've gotten criticized for anything short of being 100% sympathetic and pulling him in for another boob cuddle as he manfully angsts over sending the kid away.

[kismet]

Did people want her to not break up with him at all or wait until the next day when he isn't as raw?

I have no idea what people wanted. But I do think it was poor writing to have the goodbye video, the break-up & the miraculous recovery all in the last 5 minutes. She might have gotten criticized either way, but I think if the writers were trying to not throw her character under the bus they could have retimed the events a little differently or at least allotted more time for an actual break-up that explained it was more than just FS spitting on his manpain.

 

I'm glad it seems like they are addressing

some of the fallout in this episode. Although again it seems in poor taste to do it in the same episode there is a fake wedding for plot purposes.

 

At the end of the day, I think the ArrowWriters can be a little tone deaf to human emotions and maturity. And they most definitely don't have a good reading on their audiences... so I usually hope for the best and try to prepare for the worst. And for some reason, MG & Co think that the characterization of FS is bulletproof and OQ can be sacrificed at the drop of a hat for plot purposes. So it's always going to a rocky road for those two characters in terms of fan response.

Edited March 23, 2016 by kismet

[way2interested]

Not break up with him at all. Because apparently Oliver was totally in the right to keep the kid a secret from her, and it wasn't her place to know about the kid. So she had no right to be upset. She would've gotten criticized for anything short of being 100% sympathetic and pulling him in for another boob cuddle as he manfully angsts over sending the kid away.

It is just something that completely bothers me from some reviews of the break-up that, to me, oversimplify what is actually going on and, even worse, oversimplify it in a massively unflattering light to Felicity almost purposefully. I am not going to give the writers a pass on how the episode or this break-up was structured or executed (since I do believe that the last scene in 415 I think will be one of the more infamous scenes in the entire series), but I am giving them a pass on how, story-wise, Felicity is feeling and reacting.

 

The show went out of its way to show that Felicity wasn't mad that he had a kid (twice explicitly). Even further, 415 was showing that she was warming up to the excuse that Oliver felt cornered and that he had no choice but to keep the secret from her (both in her scene with Samantha and her later scene with Oliver). At the end of the day and the episode, the kid had almost nothing to do with why she left him. The kid was just a catalyst that showed Felicity that Oliver for some reason was actively choosing not to include her fully in his life. That may be interpreted as Felicity trying to insert herself into Oliver's life, but, given that the same episode had Oliver admit his feelings on the matter to both Diggle and Vixen and not his fiancee (not to mention already talking about the matter with Thea in 414 and even to a lesser extent Barry in 408), the show was actively showing the audience that Oliver was emotionally sharing with others, just purposefully not with the one person he's supposed to.

 

Instead, some people are just just taking the story extremely at face value. Oliver is sad and Felicity leaving is making him more sad because she didn't get what she wanted. In a shallow way, that is what happened, but to not go further out of at least respect for Felicity's character to rationalize that Felicity had reasons for acting and feeling the way she did just feel lazy to me.

 

It's a dead horse argument, I know, since people are free to interpret the show in any way that they want so sorry for bringing this up, but feeling the anticipation that more hate might be coming towards Felicity's way for justifiable (and even story supported) reasons is just getting to me now. Lazy rationales for stories that go out of their way to demean characters is a pet peeve of mine, especially when it's with touchy subjects and with characters that I like.     

[apinknightmare]

That may be interpreted as Felicity trying to insert herself into Oliver's life, but, given that the same episode had Oliver admit his feelings on the matter to both Diggle and Vixen and not his fiancee (not to mention already talking about the matter with Thea in 414 and even to a lesser extent Barry in 408), the show was actively showing the audience that Oliver was emotionally sharing with others, just purposefully not with the one person he's supposed to.

 

And it's especially sad since he asks her to share what she's feeling with him all the time - and she does! He just doesn't extend her the same courtesy to let her be the kind of partner to him that he is to her, at least as far as listening and sharing problems goes. I don't blame her at all for calling off the engagement at this point. I just wish they had let the whole thing breathe a little, instead of cramming it all into the last two minutes. Ugh.

Edited March 23, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

The boars refuses to save my like, so @way2interested, I completely agree with you. Well put.

[Morena]

Broken Hearts review

http://telltaletv.com/2016/03/arrow-review-broken-hearts-season-4-episode-16/

[EmeraldArcher]

Broken Hearts review

http://telltaletv.com/2016/03/arrow-review-broken-hearts-season-4-episode-16/

I really enjoyed that article! I can't seem to copy/paste it on my tablet, but I especially love the paragraph that starts with Felicity being right and wrong.

[Morena]

 

 

The worst thing this episode could have done would be to use the Cupid conflict as a way of bring Ollie and Felicity back together and repairing the damage Ollie caused with his lie. That’s not something that can or should be fixed so easily. It felt right that Felicity would choose to leave Team Arrow and create distance between herself and Ollie rather than try to force a working relationship.

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/24/arrow-broken-hearts-review

[Morena]

Review: ‘Arrow’ Gives Olicity Fans ‘Broken Hearts’ All Over Again

http://screencrush.com/arrow-broken-hearts-review/

[thegirlsleuth]

Interesting review over at the A/V club.  Really low grade, but the whole review is really about how Felicity has become such a polarizing character.

 

A/V Club Review of Broken Hearts:  http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-pouts-its-way-through-some-thoughts-love-234252

 

As much as I don't think Felicity is ruined or has ruined things, I do think the fact that this is Oliver's show and the show is constructed in a way that he will always have our sympathies--even when he's being a dope--means she's going to get the short end of the stick.  I thought after the travesty of relationship melodrama that was Season 3 that they were going to back off on relationship melodrama for a season, but we only got seven episodes.  I think people were coming around again, but the baby mama melodrama ended up stirring things up again.  I don't agree with his conclusion, but he raises some interesting points.

[looptab]

That is an interesting read. Though, it often happens to me with this writer, that he raises valid points and then goes in an entirely different direction than the one I thought he was going, or that he seems to never quite finish the argument he is making, stacking up observations and then just dropping them. Or maybe I just struggle with his writing style, haha. Anyway, I have to disagree with him in the end - on the contrary, to me this episode seemed to be bringing back real human emotions and reactions that were lacking for a long time. 

And honestly I have some issues with reviewers that go from "Why don't they react realistically?" in one review, to "This is not the show for characters to react realistically in" in the next one.

Edited March 24, 2016 by looptab

[tv echo]

My fave part of the above Tell-Tale TV review (content-protected, so I typed this out):

Felicity is right, and she's wrong. She did mean every word she said in that room, the same as Oliver. It's just that right now, she can't believe in his words and worst of all, she can't believe in hers. He broke not only her trust, but her belief in what she was doing, in the team. And there's no easy fix for that. There are no words that can make Felicity trust Oliver again. If he's going to get the love of his life back this time, Oliver Queen is going to have to work for it.

So often we hear that Arrow should be more about the stunts and being faithful to the comics, but the people who say that often miss the real point of entertainment. The weakest part of this episode, of this season, have been the parts that have focused only on the physical aspects and ignored the relationships. We don't care about Superman because he's from Krypton and he can fly, we care because he's Clark, and he wears glasses, acts like a dork and loves Lois. We don't care about Batman because he's got all the cool toys, we care because of his parents, and Alfred, Dick and Barbara. It's the connections that make us care, not the powers or the gadgets.

Superhero stories are not just about the superheroes. Superhero journeys are about the people they chose to surround themselves with. Oliver Queen's story is not just about how he becomes a better man, it's about how he affects the people around him and how those people affect him. It's about the sister he would sacrifice everything for, the friend he views as a role model, the woman that, as he said today, is the best part of his life. This is Oliver's journey, yes, but it's not about just him.
*  *  *
This season has been about our hero learning that he could be both the Green Arrow and Oliver Queen. This episode proves that he gets it. He's there. Now it just happens to be his turn to show the woman that showed him the way that she can also be Felicity Smoak and Overwatch. She doesn't have to choose. They can be more than a group of people standing together, fighting for a common goal. They can be a team. They can be partners.

 

My fave part of the above IGN review:

In terms of the Oliver/Felicity dynamic, though, the romantic drama was fairly effective this week. Both Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards were in top form as they wrestled with the unhappy turn their lives have taken. Rickards was especially impressive as she showed Felicity fighting a losing battle to remain a chipper and friendly despite being torn up inside. The faux-wedding was a clever twist in the sense that it forced the two to confront the happy life that was once right in front of them and accept that things have changed irrevocably.
 

Also, apparently even the media of the Flash/Arrow universe have taken to referring to these two as “Olicity.” As it should be.

Edited March 24, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I don't agree with parts of this article, but fyi, here's Collider's generally negative review of 416 ("subpar episode", rated 2 stars)...

 

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Broken Hearts” – Love Is (Still) Dead
BY DAVE TRUMBORE      9 HOURS AGO
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-broken-hearts/

It’s unfortunate that the Arrow writers seem to have written themselves into a corner and have worn a rut into it by pacing back and forth over the same plot, beat by beat. There’s something tired and predictable about the action lately, and the same can be said for the drama. This show’s at its best when there’s a sense of urgency and stakes in both components; it suffers when neither the action sequences nor dramatic interactions are compelling. Arrow needs to find its edge of the seat again, and it’s struggling to do that in a long, exhausting 23-episode season.
*  *  *
Friends, we’ve been here before. During the fake wedding, Oliver is given the opportunity to tell Felicity how he truly feels about her, or else he risks losing her. For Stephen Amell’s part, he did great and turned in a believable, emotional performance; that’s not something I praise him for all that often. Emily Bett Rickards, however, seemed to almost walk through these scenes as if she was just as tired of the same old routine as the viewers were. Perhaps it was just Felicity’s frustration and exhaustion from dealing with the situation over the last couple of seasons, but it felt more like Rickards didn’t care even as Felicity was supposed to. Even her final speech to Cupid, which supposedly turned the vengeful archer back to loving love itself, rang hollow.
*  *  *
I appreciated the production team’s attempt to freshen things up on Arrow with the wedding-themed sets, the courtroom drama, and even the little bit of fun they were having with the fandom (shipping the couples, etc.), but there are some big anchors holding this show back from being as good as it can be. I’d say it’s due for a shake-up, whether that’s with casting changes or a major story overhaul, as they head into the next season. For now, we’ll just have to grind out the rest of Season 4 and hope that things pick up during April and May.

[apinknightmare]

My fave part of the above Tell-Tale TV review (content-protected, so I typed this out):

 

He broke not only her trust, but her belief in what she was doing, in the team.

 

I could not disagree with this more. Felicity told Oliver last year that when he died they all had to figure out why they were doing what they were doing. She decided that the mission was hers, too, not just Oliver's. Oliver broke her trust personally, but nothing that happened between them should've shaken her belief in what they were doing, because she made it clear last year it's not about him.

[looptab]

Noel Kirkpatrick at Tv.com nails it, IMO:

Of course, love creates blinders. Annoying habits become harmless (or possibly even charming) affectations. Oliver's behavior has never been annoying, however, it has been life- and relationship-threatening. Felicity's generally unwavering faith in a man who nearly allowed all of his friends in the world to die in a dungeon of an assassin cult made her seem like a bit of a sap. A romantic sap, but a sap nonetheless. What "Broken Hearts" made me realize was that Felicity has been willing to excuse pretty much anything that involves Oliver's work as the Green Arrow. She accepts that part of him so completely that even something like allowing his friends to be gassed in a dungeon to stay undercover or Oliver not being by her bedside as she recovered from a massive spinal injury are acceptable facts of who Oliver is and, by extension, will be a part of their relationship. She's that committed to the cause.

What Felicity was not willing to accept, however, was that same sort of approach applied to hers and Oliver's personal lives. Hiding William's existence from her wasn't a matter of doing whatever was necessary to stop someone like Ra's al Ghul from destroying the city; it was just lying. Of course there's plenty of blame to go around on this front thanks to the depiction of Samantha, but Samantha's stipulations also didn't matter to Felicity. They're the equivalent of Oliver's refusal to break character as Al Sah-him last season, but without the heroics to justify it. There's just the hiding of things, the not trusting her to understand. She understands everything else, after all. Why wouldn't she understand this?

[tv echo]

Two mostly positive Examiner reviews of 416...

 

'Arrow' 4x16 'Broken Hearts' Review: Dying for love 
Allison Nichols  March 23, 2016
http://www.examiner.com/review/arrow-4x16-broken-hearts-review-dying-for-love

Usually, Diggle’s support and pep talks to Oliver are one of the best parts of the hour. They have a great friendship, and Diggle typically knows what Oliver needs to hear. That was not the case tonight.
 

Sorry, but thinking that words and "some time" will make Felicity forget how Oliver lied to her and didn’t trust her enough to bring her into the conversation is foolish. This wasn't some small lie that Oliver told, and sure, time might make things better, but we’re talking a lot of time here, not a couple of days. Time won't get the job done by itself.
 

While it was understandable that Thea and Diggle went to Oliver about this, it was sad that no one talked to Felicity. She could use a shoulder to cry on or someone to listen to and understand her point of view. Felicity didn’t get that because apparently everyone is Oliver’s friend and not hers.
 

This was a great Felicity hour. She managed to put aside her pain to get the job done and to get through to Cupid. Felicity didn’t back down from her decision to end her relationship with Oliver. She deserves someone who treats her like a partner in every aspect of their lives, and it’s fantastic that Felicity recognized her own worth and didn’t apologize for it.
 

Oliver’s vows were sweet and heartbreaking at the same time since he was saying them as an attempt to win back the woman he loved. While it was great to hear him put his love for Felicity into words, words aren’t what Felicity needs. She needs to see action. Oliver needs to show her that he’s changed, and that he means what he said to her.

 

'Arrow' recap: Love hurts
Meredith Jacobs  March 23, 2016
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-recap-love-hurts

It's all about consequences for Oliver and Lance in this "Arrow" episode. The former has to face the aftermath of lying to Felicity about William, while the latter must be willing to face possible prison time himself for doing what Darhk wanted under duress. Lance is, because he knows that they need Darhk behind bars, but for Oliver, he's more focused on getting Felicity back, on making promises that she just doesn't see him keeping, of finding a way to move past this too quickly for the hurt that is evident for both parties.
 

It was only a few episodes ago that Oliver was telling Felicity that she didn't have to be funny with him, but now that they're no longer together, she's trying to hide how she feels as she packs up the loft, choosing instead to focus on what need to be done: moving efficiently, cancelling the wedding venue and uninviting guests. "I was a part of the team before we were together," she reminds him when he says he'll see her when he sees her. "You are a part of the team, forever and always," he assures her, words that are more suitable for a relationship than a partnership.
 

But as much as she is still a part of the team, it's not as easy as just saying the words. First, someone has to tell the others, and that falls on Felicity. (It seems like the hardest parts are falling on her because telling people is difficult, facing the "why" and "what happened" questions, and Oliver's struggling with accepting that they aren't together anymore, something that comes up throughout the episode.)
*  *  *

Yes, Oliver's hurting, and it's good to see Diggle there for him, but isn't anyone going to be there for Felicity? This is starting to feel like everyone's just waiting for Felicity to get over the lie, and no one has even really talked to her about how she feels, as she put her feelings aside to find William in the immediate aftermath of finding out and here, with Cupid's return, has little say in the role she must play to trap her.
*  *  *
Unfortunately, Oliver and Felicity's relationship can't be fixed so easily. As touching as his vows were and while he meant every word he said, she loves him with everything in her, but what she said doesn't apply to them. She can't be with him, and she can't marry him. It's not a question of his love for her. No one is going to question that Oliver loves Felicity. Instead, it's a question of his actions, of his tendency to default to the man on an island, alone, and he'll once again decide to keep something from her. It's the life, and she was wrong to think that they could have it all, the job and each other.

Edited March 24, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Vulture review of 416...

 

Arrow Recap: Heart Attacked
By Jenny Raftery  March 24, 2016  9:02 am
http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/arrow-recap-season-4-episode-16.html

Breakups are rarely clean. There’s always a last-ditch effort or a heartfelt plea that creates confusion and moments of self-doubt. Is breaking up the right choice? That confusion and doubt is even more compounded when you’re ending a relationship with a co-worker and that co-worker suggests you pretend to get married as part of a vigilante ruse. I mean, we’ve all been there, right?
 

... At the outset, Felicity puts on a brave face. She has a manic energy about her as she makes moving arrangements and discusses her breakup to-do list with Oliver. It’s not cold or heartless but a very realistic way someone as analytical as Felicity would cope. She’s determined to move forward and to keep things professional between her and Oliver. She makes very clear that she expects to stay a part of Team Arrow. “Forever and always,” Oliver says in a way that would make even Malcolm Merlyn’s heart melt. Oh boy, Felicity. Oliver is not going to make this easy for you.
*  *  *
While Team Arrow tries to get a handle on Cupid, Laurel tries to keep Damien Darhk behind bars. I legitimately forgot that Laurel was a DA, and I’m pretty sure she did, too, because she appears at a bail hearing for the most dangerous man in the city without being able to cite any shred of evidence. And to top it off, Thea and Felicity are the ones who point out to Laurel that she should use Team Arrow as witnesses because of that one time Darhk kidnapped them and tried to kill them. That’s right. Former shoplifting truant Thea has a better legal instinct than Laurel.
*  *  *
Emily Bett Rickards’s and Stephen Amell’s performances this episode were nuanced and powerful. Their scenes, for me, are what pushed this from a mediocre episode to one worth watching on a second viewing. Rickards, in particular, really nailed that kind of hazy, gray phase of a breakup. While some might see Felicity’s fluttering between love declarations and reconfirming her breakup as an inconsistency, I see it as realistic portrayal of someone coming to grips with the end of a long-term relationship. A breakup is never simple when you still love the other person. And Felicity makes clear she loves Oliver, but, more important, she loves and values herself outside of that relationship enough to step away.
*  *  *
Loved the shot of Oliver watching Felicity walk into the venue. A great callback to the look he gives her in “The Dodger,” one of my favorite season-one episodes.
*  *  *
“Olicity” gets a shout-out in the news scrawl!

Edited March 24, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Den of Geek's mixed review of 416 (gave it 3 out of 5 stars)...

 

Arrow: Broken Hearts Review
Kayti Burt  3/23/2016 at 9:43PM
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/254001/arrow-broken-hearts-review

You may have heard otherwise, but love actually doesn't mean never having to say you're sorry. In fact, it generally means the opposite; it means constantly having to say you're sorry... and meaning it. It means honest communication, being vulnerable, and admitting you were wrong — unfortunately for our favorite green protagonist, those are three things Oliver Queen has never been particularly good at. 
 

Tonight's Arrow was all about the awkward aftermath of Olicity's breakup and, though Oliver might not have had a particularly good time watching Felicity let go of him, it actually wasn't quite as painful to watch as I thought it would be. Though Oliver didn't once tell Felicity he was sorry for lying to her about the existence of his son, the show (ultimately) didn't forgive him for it, either. Which is good because I haven't let him off the hook for yet as a viewer. Have you?
 

There were points during this episode when I thought Arrow was going to go another way with its central theme and hold up a version of true love that asks us so little of its participants. In a moment of plot-controlling-character, Diggle told Oliver that Felicity would come around, implying that Oliver shouldn't make any effort to try to understand how Felicity was feeling. (When, really, we know that Diggle would both a) hold Oliver to a higher standard and b) have Felicity's back.)
 

Later, when Oliver and Felicity are fake-getting married in an attempt to draw out Cupid, Oliver uses the opportunity to declare his undying love for the hacker genius. Oliver's vows were beautiful and Stephen Amell nailed their delivery, but the entire set-up felt emotionally manipulative — both for Felicity (because they were in the middle of a mission) and the audience (because of Amell's blue, blue eyes). Once again, though, Oliver was explaining what he needed and wanted rather than listening to what Felicity is worried about. Oliver never once addresses Felicity's concerns that Oliver will continue to keep important things from her in any real way, other than to pinky-swear that he won't — which he has done before. At this point, Oliver, actions speak louder than words.
 

"You really know how to make a girl believe in love again," Cupid tells Felicity after the latter delivers a speech about what loving Oliver has meant to her, but Arrow is going to have to try harder if it's going to convince its viewers. I am still totally on board the Olicity train, but I'm not sure how the show is going to reconcile this very real concern that Felicity has and, after season 3, I'm worried that it won't try to. I'm worried that the show will just wait the requisite amount of time (roughly until season finale season, let's say), then bring Oliver and Felicity back together because true love, with a pinch of life-or-death-stakes thrown in for good measure. But like Felicity, I demand more of my love stories. Time to step up, Arrow.
*  *  *
"I don't want to let you go, but I'm already gone." Team Arrow is screwed without Felicity, right?

Edited March 24, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Fanatic review of 416...

 

Arrow Season 4 Episode 16 Review: Broken Hearts
Carissa Pavlica at March 23, 2016 10:09 pm.  Updated at March 24, 2016 5:39 am
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2016/03/arrow-season-4-episode-16-review-broken-hearts/

That might be nice for a Harlequin Romance (do they even have those books anymore?), but frankly, that's not why I started watching Arrow. Week after week, Arrow is about romance. Will they or won't they. How far and for how long.
*  *  *
First of all, Felicity was asked to step headfirst into harm's way just after she regained the ability to walk. Not cool. Secondly, Oliver used a mission as his opportunity to ask her to marry again. Way to take you head out of the game, Oliver. Third, Oliver had on Kevlar while Felicity had on a strapless gown. Speaks for itself.
 

The timing was completely off for him to be thinking about romancing Felicity, not just for the case, but for the writers to tie that into the case. There needs to be a separation. A time for the superhero action and personal time.
 

From a character perspective, it was also completely unexpected that Oliver would expect Felicity to leave the team. She's been a more consistent part of if than he was. He died twice and left twice, once to be Ra's al Ghul and the other to live with Felicity. Always, she remained with the team.
 

The team functions fine without Oliver. The same cannot be said for Felicity.
 

This breakup is why it's hard to have people together on shows like this. Because showrunners don't like happiness. They want fabricated drama. And let's be honest, Oliver isn't the greatest romantic lead. There were going to be problems.

Edited March 24, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

 

 

That might be nice for a Harlequin Romance (do they even have those books anymore?), but frankly, that's not why I started watching Arrow. Week after week, Arrow is about romance. Will they or won't they. How far and for how long.

*  *  *

I'm always puzzled when I read statements like this, because I wouldn't say that's the case at all. Week after week? The only episodes where there's been actual focus on the relationship were 406, 409, and this one. Maybe 414? Let's add 401 to be generous? But 415 had the kid drama going on, and aside from a few lines here and there, the issues where addressed in a lackluster one-minute scene. The episodes after the hiatus, were not about their relationship. 

 

Has MTV abandoned Arrow, now that Kayti Burt reviews for Den of Geek?

Edited March 24, 2016 by looptab

[EmilyBettFan]

I always laugh at the ones who think this is all Romance. Is it romance when there is action? Is it romance when they are talking about their plans to take down an enemy? Is it romance when there's scenes of a court battle? People are so stupid. Lol

Season 1 had a love triangle for goodness sake and he went out with none other than 2 women plus Laurel. This is the stupidest thing ever. These people just don't like it because it's not with Laurel.

Edited March 24, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[dtissagirl]

It's not even which episodes deal more with the romantic arc than the others that puzzle me -- it's that I think that's a deep lack of understanding that the entire premise of the show needs Oliver to be in love. That romantic love is the main thing that drives his hero's journey, as was established in pilot, and never ever changed.

[NumberCruncher]

But relationships driving story in comics = okay, it just not on TV. Get it right. ;)