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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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benteen

benteen

I will give them one thing Laurel's personality has been consistent throughout the the 4 seasons. She's the worst. 

 

Blaming everyone else for her problems is what she's always done. No wonder Oliver took Sara on a month long cruise. I would hate to think about being stuck in a confined space with Laurel for that long. "Why would you take us out during a storm, Oliver. These choppy waves are making my champagne spill everywhere. This is all your fault" 

 

She really is an addict with her refusal to except blame for her stupid decisions.

 

Excellent point about how WTF that moment was when she suddenly pulled out a gun.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

While i HATED the gun moment, Laurel found out that her sister didn't have her soul and wouldn't be returning to her old self like she thought. Of course Oliver didn't tell her that he had a friend who could help until that moment since the writers want their cheap dramatics. But if they were going to do the gun bit, at least write it better and make it more emotional.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here's another pro-Laurel and pro-GA/BC review of 405 (no surprise, I disagree with just about everything)...

‘Arrow’ TV recap: For the show’s next death-defying act, please welcome (back)…Constantine!
By David Betancourt November 5
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2015/11/05/arrow-tv-recap-for-the-shows-next-death-defying-act-please-welcome-back-constantine/

... Laurel will have to answer for her actions, but she doesn’t want any bad vibes from Ollie. Oliver can put on a mask and lie to everyone for years, and no one gets to make him feel bad for it.
 

Oliver can bring Thea back to health with a Lazarus Pit (granted, Thea wasn’t dead, just badly injured), but Laurel does it and its judgment time. Laurel is sick of it all. She makes the same questionable life-or-death calls as Ollie, but when she does, he’s there to reprimand.
 

Laurel gives Oliver a tall glass of hypocrisy to go with his misguided anger, and lets him know that he’s never made her feel like an equal since she put on a mask. It hurts her, and she lets Oliver know it.
 

Oliver perhaps wasn’t prepared for Laurel sounding justified in response to his “Why did you resurrect Sara?” question. This argument is a great scene, and something that has been missing when it comes to Oliver and Laurel appearing together. Since the dawn of Olicity (Oliver’s made-for-TV love with team Arrow tech-wiz Felicity), Laurel and Oliver’s time together has lacked the spark that was there but strongly in the first two seasons of “Arrow.” They’re the Green Arrow and Black Canary, of course — there should be a spark, if not a still burning flame. Olicity be damned.
 

After some sorely missed drama between Oliver and Laurel, it was time for this episode’s major moment. Reclaiming Sara’s soul....

Edited by tv echo
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Guest

Guest

The only reason we even have Olicity is because there wasn't any spark between SA and KC to begin with. I'm so confused at how it was strong in s1 and s2? Whaaaaaat.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Here's one review that appears to be on Laurel's side and also brings up the possibility of a GA/BC romantic pairing...

 

Same Geek Channel: ‘Arrow’ Episode 4.05 “Haunted”

Posted on 6 November, 2015 by Joey L. Mills

http://geekdad.com/2015/11/sgc-arrow-4-05/

 

To have Ollie standing in the hospital where Thea is in bed because of Sara’s attack is more than Laurel can take. She calls BS on Ollie and his lying and secret-keeping and “I’m a hero and you’re not so ha ha” attitude.

*  *  *

Ollie knows that Laurel is right. He hasn’t been the stand-up guy toward the Lance family that Ollie says he wants to be. When the political strategist that Thea hired to oversee Ollie’s mayoral campaign tells Ollie to distance himself from the Lance’s, Ollie is too quick to see the guy’s point, even if it looks like the kid is still working on his Bachelor’s degree. Thea talks some sense into Ollie and that’s when Ollie uses what has to be one of the last of his remaining lifelines to phone a friend.

I wonder if the writer thinks that if he uses "Ollie" often enough he can magically conjure the comic book OQ (and with him, the GA/BC romance) into the show's existence. 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

The thing is, Oliver is not comic book 'Ollie' and Laurel is definitely not comic book 'Dinah' and I really don't know why that is so hard to understand. It's not the comics. You want the comics verbatim, go read them and take your pick. There's lots of different comic canon to chose from. Go wild! 

Edited by Guest
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Guest

Guest

Is it me or do all the pro-Laurel reviews end with the reviewer revealing they are hoping for a GA/BC hook up in the future?

 

Well, I've only seen two pro-Laurel reviews this week but yes. A romance is basically all she's seemingly worth to most comic book fans. Why they can't just be satisfied that she's finally BC, I'll never know. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow "Haunted" Review: Back to the Here and Now
By Noel Kirkpatrick fYesterday
http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/community/post/arrow-season-4-episode-5-haunted-review-144632290578/

Which was basically where we found ourselves again this week, since the show was still grappling with Laurel's reasoning for bringing Sara back from the dead. Again, it just doesn't make any sense that she'd stick Sara in the Lazarus Pit given everything she went through last season and learned about the pit this season. So while it resulted in some tough exchanges between Oliver and Laurel, I just couldn't buy any of it given the context in which all of this was happening. For example, this idea of not seeing Laurel as an equal is a really fascinating one, and one that makes sense given Oliver's treatment of Laurel since Season 3, but how it came up and was then followed up with Laurel calling Oliver out for not thinking about what Laurel had been going through just robs it of any real potency, mainly because the show itself has not really cared about what Laurel's been going through in regards to bringing Sara back to life.
 

The show, as a whole, has struggled to fully care about Laurel, and while it sometimes has done a marvelous job, it isn't doing one right now (she's ready to shoot Sara after all of this?! C'mon, Arrow, nobody was buying that), and it's ruining large chunks of the show.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

Huh?! ...

 

"ARROW" RECAP: CONSTANTINE MAKES HIS CW DEBUT IN "HAUNTED"

Wed, November 4th, 2015 at 11:25pm PST  Lauren Gallaway
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/arrow-recap-constantine-makes-his-cw-debut-in-haunted-2015

... Seeing Thea's life in danger forces Oliver to confront Laurel about her recklessness. Laurel doesn't let Oliver bully her, though -- she fights back. She directly asks Oliver why his sister was allowed to go into the Lazarus Pit, but Laurel's sister, Sara, wasn't. For the first time in a long time Laurel stands up to Oliver, calling out his double standards and mistreatment of her family. Laurel's boldness impacts Oliver, who decides to put in a call to John Constantine, the only man capable of restoring Sara's soul to her body. Oliver and Laurel share some fantastic scenes in this episode, especially when they are in the netherworld rescuing Sara. They also share a great hug at the end of the episode in Oliver's campaign headquarters. The Queens and the Lances will always be family, and Oliver really embraced that truth tonight.
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Here's another pro-Laurel and pro-GA/BC review of 405 (no surprise, I disagree with just about everything)...

‘Arrow’ TV recap: For the show’s next death-defying act, please welcome (back)…Constantine!

By David Betancourt November 5

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2015/11/05/arrow-tv-recap-for-the-shows-next-death-defying-act-please-welcome-back-constantine/

 

After some sorely missed drama between Oliver and Laurel, it was time for this episode’s major moment. Reclaiming Sara’s soul....

No one missed the drama between Oliver and Laurel. Go home, reviewer. You're drunk.

 

The thing is, Oliver is not comic book 'Ollie' and Laurel is definitely not comic book 'Dinah' and I really don't know why that is so hard to understand. It's not the comics. You want the comics verbatim, go read them and take your pick. There's lots of different comic canon to chose from. Go wild! 

Even though I grew up reading comics and still enjoy comics-based movies, I am never ever going to watch another comics-based TV show again. I'm sticking with Arrow because I'm too invested in Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle, but the other currently existing and future spinoffs? Nah. I am sick and tired of every plot point that makes no sense in the show's context being "explained" by "but that's the way it is in the comics." Or the show throwing away elements that developed naturally just so it could twist itself into pretzels to make it more like the comics. 

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tv echo

tv echo

Back to sanity with Jessica Breaux's review of 405...

 

Arrow “Haunted” Review (Season 4, Episode 5)
November 5, 2015 Jessica Breaux
http://www.tvequals.com/2015/11/05/arrow-haunted-review-season-4-episode-5/

My primary problem with this episode was Laurel and her inability to accept responsibility for all of the damage she caused. When Oliver confronted her about what she’d done she threw everything that he’d done back in his face as if that somehow excuses the choices she made. Yes. Oliver lied to them. Yes. Oliver kept secrets from them. Yes. Oliver was wrong. However, none of that excuses anything that Laurel has done. Deflecting onto Oliver also isn’t going to change the fact that Laurel got involved with powers that she has zero understanding about, and her lack of understanding has caused a soulless monster to be unleashed on Startling City. It’s interesting Laurel claims her issue with Oliver is hypocrisy given the fact that she’s swimming in that same pool. People are dead because Laurel was too hard-headed to listen when Oliver, Thea, Nyssa, and Malcolm told her not to bring Sara back. Even after it was clear that Sara was off the rails (she’d already killed at least 5 people) Laurel still acted as if Oliver and Captain Lance were the real threats. Part of being a grown up is not blaming other people for the choices you made. Laurel finally got around to admitting she was wrong, but it felt pretty disingenuous.
 

It’s no secret that I’m not a Laurel fan. At least, I’m not anymore. I actually enjoyed Laurel during the first season. She was smart and tough, and she had a history with Oliver that was just ripe for dramatic action. I was looking forward to watching her character evolve, and since I never read any of the Green Arrow comics, I didn’t have any preconceived notions of who Laurel was supposed to be. However, somewhere between season one and season two they decided to turn Laurel into a whiny, self-absorbed damsel in distress. I was disappointed and I’d hoped the powers that be would figure out their error and fix it. Sadly, it seems they’ve doubled down instead. In addition to Laurel playing the blame game, she jumped down Oliver’s throat about things that don’t even make sense. First of all, Laurel’s argument that she and Oliver need to be equals is ridiculous. What does that even mean? How exactly is Oliver not treating her as an equal? Is he supposed to go consult Laurel about things she knows absolutely nothing about? Such as magic and mystical powers? Is Oliver supposed to defer to Laurel on combat strategy due to her vast experience in combat situations? Oh wait. She doesn’t have any. The fact of the matter is, Oliver has been through a crucible that Laurel can never begin to understand. He’s learned things about himself that he probably wishes he didn’t know, and he’s learned things about what’s really out there in the world too. Laurel hasn’t done any of that. It would be one thing if she and Oliver had shared some of those experiences, but they didn’t. Not even close. I’m not trivializing Laurel’s journey. I understand and respect that it hasn’t always been easy for her, but she needs to stop trying to compare herself with Oliver. She may not have called it that, but that’s exactly what it is. That’s why she keeps bringing up Oliver’s refusal to support her becoming Black Canary.
 

As I recall, Oliver tried to dissuade her from becoming a vigilante because she hadn’t been properly trained (two weeks of kickboxing and some self defense classes doesn’t mean you’re prepared) and because she was still grieving. She wasn’t in the right headspace at the time to make that decision and Oliver told her as much. Oliver wouldn’t have been being a good friend if he didn’t try to stop Laurel back then. But what has Oliver said lately about her being Black Canary? Has he tried to stop her from going out on missions? Has he tried to persuade her to hang up her leather suit? No. He’s just treated her like a member of the team. Is he supposed to pat her on the head and tell her ‘good job’ every time she doesn’t get one of the team members hurt or killed?
 

Then my favorite part was Laurel’s complaint that Oliver never told her he was The Arrow. To be fair, the only people he actually told were Dig and Felicity, and Felicity mostly figured it out on her own because she’s smart. But my question is, why would Oliver have told Laurel he was The Arrow? When he first got back to Starling City, Laurel made it pretty clear that she didn’t want anything to do with him. He tried to respect that and keep his distance. Then Laurel decided that The Arrow was to blame for Tommy’s death and she went on a crusade to get him arrested. Not to mention the fact that the more people who knew Oliver’s secret identity, the more danger it put him (and them) in. The fact of the matter is, Oliver has a right to keep some things to himself just like anyone else. What right does Laurel have to demand that Oliver reveal all his secrets to her? It’s not like they were dating or married. Just because you’re friends with someone doesn’t mean you get to know more than they’re willing to share. But the more you show yourself worthy of the trust your friend is placing in you, they’ll trust you with more and more of themselves. Oliver was a different person when he came back from the island, and Laurel either didn’t see it or willfully ignored it. Whatever the case, she didn’t show Oliver that he could trust her with that information, so he didn’t tell her. And how long ago was that anyway? Get over it already.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow 4×05 Review – Haunted
By: Alisha Bjorklund November 5, 2015
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/11/arrow-4x05-review-haunted/#.VjzR67erTIU

Constantine helping restore Sara’s soul may have been the primary focus, but a strong secondary part of the episode was further exploring Oliver and Laurel’s relationship. As expected, they had a dramatic confrontation, not just about Sara, but also about their history. At the heart of the matter was Laurel asking Oliver to see things from her perspective, to offer her the support she feels he’s never given her because he doesn’t see her as an equal. And I think that’s true, at least a little bit. Oliver accepted her into his team, and even admires the progress she made becoming the Black Canary. But there was probably a part of him that still saw Laurel as being beneath him, so it was easy for him to pass judgment on her for bringing Sara back.

Having said that, I personally think Oliver has every right to judge Laurel for her bad decisions. Her selfish desires got people killed, and she keeps pushing her pain onto others. That’s not okay. Plus, she’s spending a lot of time being judgmental herself. But that conversation allowed these two characters to reconcile a bit, and it came at a good time. Perhaps now they can start building a proper friendship. Oliver is on a roll with the Lances, it seems, so next up: Sara. I have a feeling he’ll have a heartfelt talk with Sara sometime soon about what she’ll do (cough, Legends, cough) now that she’s back to normal (well, normal enough). Because this episode focused so much on Oliver and Laurel’s relationship, it was no surprise that they went into that other realm together to rescue Sara’s soul.
Edited by tv echo
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Oliver actually told four people, Diggle, Felicity, Roy and Thea.

 

Sara knew because he was wearing Shado's hood that he wore on the island, Felicity and Diggle told Barry. Harrison/Thawne knew because he's from the future. Then we had Slade and Ra's tell Laurel and Quentin. 

 

I understood Laurel's complaints, but that was NOT THE RIGHT TIME to bring them up. People are dying by zombie Sara's hands and Thea's in the hospital, whining about your feelings about everything is not important at that place and time. Then we only had Laurel getting air her grievances, Oliver didn't get to say his. How exactly is hearing only one side of an argument working out their many issues? To me it looked Oliver was just done with Laurel's BS and is just trying to keep his happy mood. Which includes just accepting that Laurel is a delusional lunatic that is never going to change.

 

Now it will be

Laurel: "Blah, blah, your fault, blah, what about me?, blah, blah"

Oliver: "Okay, Laurel" 

Edited by Sakura12
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I think he told Helena too and Tommy found out because Oliver/Hood was trying to save Malcolm.  Moira being Moira figured it out on her own...although I'm hoping she pieced it together after she shot the Hood because man that would have been cold.

 

I think it's funny that of all the series regulars Laurel and Lance are the only two that were told the secret by Villains.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

...that scene in the netherworld was anything but 'fantastic', tho. LIke really, a girl drowning in a hot tub was the episode highlight for you?

Maybe it was LL running in & out of frame like a useless Nintendo character...

 

I think it's funny that of all the series regulars Laurel and Lance are the only two that were told the secret by Villains.

It's because of his longstanding relationship with the Lance Family that he was forced to keep it from them. Give the guy a break. He's only trying to do what a Lance would do. :) Lying to a Lance or keeping the truth from them is almost a required act of love in that family.

Edited by kismet
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Menrva

Menrva

Honestly, anyone in Star[ling] City who hasn't figured it out by now is too dumb to live.

Guess it's okay then for soulless lunatics and Ghosts to be killing Star City residents left and right…

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benteen

benteen

The only reason we even have Olicity is because there wasn't any spark between SA and KC to begin with. I'm so confused at how it was strong in s1 and s2? Whaaaaaat.

 

Exactly.  Oliver and Felicity generated the chemistry that Oliver and Laurel could not.  I only hope the writers respect that in the end but I do fear their slavish devotion to comic book continuity is what they care about in the end.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Exactly.  Oliver and Felicity generated the chemistry that Oliver and Laurel could not.  I only hope the writers respect that in the end but I do fear their slavish devotion to comic book continuity is what they care about in the end.

They really haven't been slavishly devoted, though.  I mean, that's why some comic book people are angry.  They've changed up a LOT of stuff from the general idea of the comics.  About the only thing that springs to mind that they did stick to from the comics just because of the comics was making Dinah Laurel Lance the BC.

 

And it's not just us here who saw no chemistry bw SA and KC, it was the people in charge: the studio, the network, the EPs, plus tons of professional reviewers.  Not to mention SA, who while not an EP does seem to have a decent amount of input.  That's the whole reason they moved away from that pairing. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

I can't even fault SA/KC on chemistry since their storyline was drastically different from what SA/EBR got to do. Having your charecters constantly at each others v throats keeping secrets from one another as opposed to being able to be lighter, add in some jokes, be happy around each other. That would be the only thing interesting me in seeing SA/KC play happy with one another and have their charecters be open with one another.

Not to mention the two people who were pro L/O bts aren't really involved anymore on a day2day basis.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I have no doubt the show is going to try that, but it's 4 animosity-filled seasons too late to try to convince me that Oliver and Laurel could be friends.

We'll find out in coming months, I guess, but I can't see it either.  Unless KC has been doing the constant rage-face thing on purpose, and now she stops? 

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I can't even fault SA/KC on chemistry since their storyline was drastically different from what SA/EBR got to do. Having your charecters constantly at each others v throats keeping secrets from one another as opposed to being able to be lighter, add in some jokes, be happy around each other. That would be the only thing interesting me in seeing SA/KC play happy with one another and have their charecters be open with one another.

 

Except that it's entirely possible for two characters to hate each other and still have amazing chemistry.  That's why enemies-to-lovers and hate sex are such popular tropes. Even when Felicity and Oliver spent almost an entire season at arms length from each other, they didn't stop having chemistry. IMO, the reason SA and KC don't have chemistry has nothing to do with the writing, and everything to do with the fact that they just don't seem to gel with each other in any real way. Most of us remember that awkward interview they gave at SDCC '14. It made me realize they have anti-chemistry IRL too, not just on screen.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

While that is true, those two played them to the extreme. From some things that I've seen of them bts, they seem more casual with one another. But I think would have to be into it and not be reserved, the very very very small times we've their charecters "happy" their chemistry was fine for me.

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EmilyBettFan

EmilyBettFan

Why is it "Oliver's treatment of Laurel?" I'm sorry but nothing he has ever done to her or at her that can ever justify her putting a man hunt on the hood even if she didn't know it was him.

Or all the times she thinks he's the judgmental one when actually it's her with all her uses of that damn word.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

(edited)

It is weird most of the people in the comment sections from every review I read are either talking about Constantine thus ignoring Laurel or talking about how Laurel is still the worst. There are small portion who are defending her but majority are just over her. Wow! I thought this episode was going to be fix her character. 

 

My favorite comment I think was someone who wrote, "Episode was 90% awesome and 10% Laurel". LMAO!

Edited by TwistedandBored
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Guest

Guest

Yeah, I wish they wouldn't say it's gonna be a tear jerker. YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR MY EMOTIONS. 

 

I literally have no clue who it is. I feel like it's gonna be Quentin but this show does dumb things all the time so I wouldn't put it past them to kill off Felicity or Diggle. Laurel will be like the cockroach that's still alive after the apocalypse. Sorry but it's true. 

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