Clock Tower Theater: Fanfic, Fan Music Videos and Art

[LeighAn]

28 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

I loved Victoria, too! I admit, those woodland wanderings didn't seem as off as  they should have.  Maybe because they were cousins?  I wonder if that is part of the reason that cousin marriage was more frequent.

Well seeing Albert play surgeon to Dash made me forgive a lot haha! As a pet owner that was way more swoon worthy to me then the part where he cuts his shirt open ?

 

Im hoping there is going to be a series 2.

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

I LOVE LOVE LOVE our show Felicity so much I don't feel like any fanfic version of her has lived up to the real thing. But in that vein I am pretty easy going with any random Felicity-ish version of Felicity. Especially in an AU where a completely different set of circumstances will make them behave differently anyway.

Usually I can roll with different versions of Felicity, even if they don't have much in common with the show Felicity, if the story is well written but I can't get past some things..for example there's one author that writes her as clingy and needy and she reminds me of show Laurel so it's a no no, LOL

[statsgirl]

I love AUs because they can be so interesting but one of the things I need is for Oliver, Felicity, Diggle etc to stay in character given what is happening to them in the story.  Otherwise it's just someone taking the names from the show and writing their own characters.  If they're going to have Oliver suffer from five years away for whatever reason (e.g. fighting a war, kidnapped by pirates) the Oliver in that story has to behave the way an Olivwe traumatized in that way would behave.  He can't be all opening and considerate of Felicity as soon as he gets back.

For me, the story also has to be true to the time period it's set in. Otherwise you've just taken modern characters with those names and plunked them in an earlier time period with no difference to the way they would behave today.

17 hours ago, TrueMyth said:

Wait, so I haven't read ASLaS yet (I try to hold off for completion if I don't know/trust the writer), but it's set in the mid 1800's, right?  What exactly is Felicity refusing to wear under her dress?  I mean, it wasn't uncommon for women to be crotchless back then.  And what we think of as underwear or panties didn't show up until the last century.  Now she would have needed to wear something, but there wasn't much besides yards of fabric between a girl and the wide world.  The regency period was even more wild.  This article has some great images from the time, showing, even with the petticoat or chemise the dresses could be quite revealing, even to the eye.  Are they wearing hoop dresses in ASLaS?

Awwww, she's a fan of Georgette Heyer too!

I remember in one of her books the outrage that Lady Caroline Lamb would dampen her dress to show everything.

16 hours ago, TrueMyth said:

I loved Victoria, too! I admit, those woodland wanderings didn't seem as off as  they should have.  Maybe because they were cousins?  I wonder if that is part of the reason that cousin marriage was more frequent.

King Leopold of Belgium* decided that his niece would marry one of a collection of young men he had selected, one of whom was Albert.  Just the two of them wandering off would have been encouraged I suspect.

The rules for royalty were strange. Prince Albert's father married his own niece as his second wife, the daughter of his sister Antoinette. I can't image that would go over today.

* Father of Leopold II who screwed up the Congo and is the reason no Belgian peacekeepers are posted there.

[BkWurm1]

In a lot of those scenes where Victoria and Albert were seemingly wandering around the gardens by themselves, I just assumed the official chaperones were just hanging waaay back out of the camera shot, lol.  

[Morrigan2575]

I read this fic a long time ago (around S2?) and loved it.

Everybody Needs a Friend

I found it again and bookmarked it last year. I just went to reread it and, noticed something that apparently has become a no-go for me...use of Ollie instead of Oliver.  

Apparently last year it didn't even phase me, now it's like WTF?!

Anyway, its a short, cute Olicity and OTA+Roy fic, if you can overlook the use of Ollie.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

Cute fic.

 

That's a lot of Ollie though.

[SmallScreenDiva]

This got recc'd to me recently, a "Serendipity" AU where Oliver & Felicity meet, share about 4 days together without telling each other who they are: "Left to Fate" ... It's a WiP but I'm curious how it's going to handle the "searching" part of the story.

[LeighAn]

On 20/07/2017 at 9:49 PM, SmallScreenDiva said:

This got recc'd to me recently, a "Serendipity" AU where Oliver & Felicity meet, share about 4 days together without telling each other who they are: "Left to Fate" ... It's a WiP but I'm curious how it's going to handle the "searching" part of the story.

Thank you for recommending this I just finished reading it. I've been starved for something good to read and I really enjoyed this and the premise it's set up. Hopefully the writer is reliable in terms of completing works.

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

I tend to think though that her pilot episode character is the character met in most every fan fic I've read with her in it.  It's a fairly simplistic characterization so so far, I've never read an OOC Raisa.  

The problem I have here is that Pilot Raisa wasn't a character (IMO) she was a plot device. She was in 2 scenes (IIRC) one was just to show that Oliver was different (reflexes and spoke Russian) and the other was to tell Oliver he always had a kind heart (or something to that effect).

So I have a hard time saying Fanfic Raisa is In Character vs OOC because she was never really A Character IMO.

I have read a lot of Fanfic where Raisa gets elevated to Oliver's 'real mother' while Moira is the evil/cold/social climber. I also tend to see a lot of Fics where you have Loving Maternal Raisa propping up Felicity while Evil Cold Socialite Moira is pushing for Oliver to get back with Laurel.

The basic theme with Raisa (in Fic) is that she's Oliver's loving surrogate mother who understands him and always saw the good sweet boy he was. This is often juxtaposed with Moira being cold/distant or judging of Oliver. Very often in Bratva fics Moira is dead and Raisa is Oliver's adopted mother, member of the Bratva, related to Anatoly, etc.

If anything I'd say Fanfic Raisa is more sanctified version of the pilot character. 

[bijoux]

I agree with Raisa being sanctified in fics, but my reading is way more constrincted than yours because I don't remember having read any of the other things you mention. I haven't really read much (any?) BratvaOliver fics, though.

[Hiveminder]

I haven't read a whole lot of Bratva fics, but I do notice the tendency to make Raisa Oliver's surrogate mother and Moira cold and distant or outright cruel. Sometimes Moira being a bad mother is a major part of the fic. In which case, I understand the need to have a warm motherly figure, and Raisa is very convenient. Other times, the fic is very close to canon except for Moira's attitude toward Oliver. It seems clear to me that Moira and Robert were warm, loving parents even if they were too permissive and taught their children some bad habits. Oliver wouldn't have confided in Moira about Samantha and the baby otherwise. He would have gone to Raisa. 

Very rarely do I see what I picture as a more likely relationship between Raisa and Oliver, which is something similar to the relationship between a child and a favorite babysitter. 

I think the idea of Moira and Robert as cold, unloving parents comes largely from other sources such as teen movies where the wealthy teenaged protagonist has to fight his out of touch, workaholic parents in order to live the life he really wants because there's really nothing in the show to support that view. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yeah..Moira and Oliver were very close..I'd say she was the most important person for him pre island since when it really mattered he went to her.

I think Raisa can work in those fics where there was no island and she is the one to see Oliver is starting to change or he doesn't want the life they planned for him and encourage him while his parents obviously love him but don't expect him to become a less superficial person or don't support his goals if they aren't being CEO of QC. That's because I saw a little of that between Moira and Oliver (and Moira and Thea) in the very first episodes..

[TrueMyth]

I think Raisa is a fan fave because she obviously liked Oliver (as most viewers do), and she's otherwise a blank slate since there is not much to her.  It's smart to tie her in to Bratva storylines because of her Russian language.  I do think that it's a shame the Arrow writers never referenced her in season five flashbacks.  It would be a nice bit of info to explain how quickly/well Oliver can pick up Russian if he had some words and phrases from growing up with Raisa.  Since she's back now, it would have been a nice bit of cohesion.

By the way, as an update to my earlier question regarding Ko-Fi for fic writers, geneeste (writing "Our Version of Events" with MachaSWicket) is letting people know that she recently ran afoul of the AO3 admins for linking to a Ko-Fi account on the site.  It violates the AO3 terms for the reasons speculated upon earlier.  Any writers using or thinking of using it, make sure not to link from AO3, and any readers of a fav writer who does so, give them a heads up!

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, TrueMyth said:

 It would be a nice bit of info to explain how quickly/well Oliver can pick up Russian if he had some words and phrases from growing up with Raisa.  Since she's back now, it would have been a nice bit of cohesion.

It would be nice to harken back to it now that she is back but referring to it in the pilot would have lessened the effect in the pilot epiosde of Oliver, returning from a deserted island, can now suddenly speak Russian.

I don't have nearly as rosy a picture of Moira and Robert as you guys do.  I'd say they were loving but both of them were pretty bad at parenting.  Robert was just fine with Oliver going on the boat trip with him even though he's just been kicked out of his fourth college (my parents would have made me do physical labour if I'd done that instead of a great cruise to China) and when he found Sara on the boat, all he said was it wasn't going to turn out well instead of making Oliver face his responsibilities.

Moira could be cold, as she was to Thea when Thea was in trouble, and to Felicity, blaming it all on her and threatening her with her greatest fear.  She was pretty much a snake with Samantha too instead of wanting to connect with her first grandchild. (I don't understand how, if she loved Oliver and Thea so much, she could just pretty much throw away a grandchild.)  Yes, she loved Oliver but she loved him in her own way and it was often distant and sometimes cold.  For all that she loved her children and killed to protect them, she lacked empathy with both, ignoring Thea and then making her mess go away and pushing Oliver to join QC as soon as he got back forcing him to put on that fake drunk act to get out of it. She loved her children but it wasn't unconditional or unselfish and sometimes it was as a reflection of herself.  As Oliver said, Moira (and by extension Robert) needed to have put in more hands-on time with both their children.

3 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

Oliver wouldn't have confided in Moira about Samantha and the baby otherwise. He would have gone to Raisa. 

Raisa couldn't fix things; Moira could. Moira and Robert had been fixing things for Oliver since he started acting out.  And Moira fixed this too, although Oliver didn't know it.  She had a point that it would have been hard on Oliver to have an illegitimate child much less marry Samantha but she didn't do him any favours making the consequences of his actions go away.

Edited July 24, 2017 by statsgirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think they didn't know how to parent their kids but I think they proved their unconditional love when they sacrificed themselves to save their lives..

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 

I don't have nearly as rosy a picture of Moira and Robert as you guys do.  I'd say they were loving but both of them were pretty bad at parenting.  Robert was just fine with Oliver going on the boat trip with him even though he's just been kicked out of his fourth college (my parents would have made me do physical labour if I'd done that instead of a great cruise to China) and when he found Sara on the boat, all he said was it wasn't going to turn out well instead of making Oliver face his responsibilities.

Moira could be cold, as she was to Thea when Thea was in trouble, and to Felicity, blaming it all on her and threatening her with her greatest fear.  She was pretty much a snake with Samantha too instead of wanting to connect with her first grandchild. (I don't understand how, if she loved Oliver and Thea so much, she could just pretty much throw away a grandchild.)  Yes, she loved Oliver but she loved him in her own way and it was often distant and sometimes cold.  For all that she loved her children and killed to protect them, she lacked empathy with both, ignoring Thea and then making her mess go away and pushing Oliver to join QC as soon as he got back forcing him to put on that fake drunk act to get out of it. She loved her children but it wasn't unconditional or unselfish and sometimes it was as a reflection of herself.  As Oliver said, Moira (and by extension Robert) needed to have put in more hands-on time with both their children.

I wouldn't say I have a rosy view of Moira and Robert. As people, they sucked. They absolutely screwed those kids up. They didn't discipline them properly, they made their mistakes go away instead of teaching them to deal with the consequences and not make those mistakes again, and they taught them that lieing to your loved ones is ok. However, they obviously loved their children. They spent time with them, talked to them. Any coldness Moira showed to Thea seemed to be a part of her not handling the stress of what Malcolm very well, not a long standing pattern of behavior. 

I'm not saying they were perfect parents by any means. I'm just saying they didn't treat their kids like dolls only to be brought out to be shown off to their friends and then sent back to the nursery until Moira and Robert remembered they existed again, as is often portrayed in fic. I fully believe that Moira and Robert read the bed time stories and gave good night kisses, not Raisa. 

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

Raisa couldn't fix things; Moira could. Moira and Robert had been fixing things for Oliver since he started acting out.  And Moira fixed this too, although Oliver didn't know it.  She had a point that it would have been hard on Oliver to have an illegitimate child much less marry Samantha but she didn't do him any favours making the consequences of his actions go away.

That's supposing Oliver went to Moira purely to get her to fix things, and maybe he did a little, subconsciously. But, I think Oliver was mainly seeking comfort and someone to say everything would be alright and tell him what to do. You don't go to a cold, distant mother for that. 

No, Moira didn't do him any favors. I'm not saying she was always a good mother in terms of teaching and guiding her children to be better people. I'm just saying she was a warm and loving mother. 

[BkWurm1]

29 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I'm not saying they were perfect parents by any means. I'm just saying they didn't treat their kids like dolls only to be brought out to be shown off to their friends and then sent back to the nursery until Moira and Robert remembered they existed again, as is often portrayed in fic. I fully believe that Moira and Robert read the bed time stories and gave good night kisses, not Raisa. 

I tend to think Moira and Robert read stories and tucked them in when they were around but I don't doubt that Raisa (or someone, so why not Raisa?) stepped in on a lot of nights when the Queens were out being pillars of society or just too busy.  I don't see Raisa as the "real" parent so much as the day to day caregiver, which is what I'd expect from someone rich that employs a nanny.  Doesn't mean the parents don't parent or get involved but I don't picture Moira being a full-time, stay at home, handle everything mom any more than I imagine Robert a full-time, stay at home, handle everythng dad.  

[statsgirl]

What @BkWurm1 said.  There is room for both Robert and Moira and Raisa in Oliver's and Thea's lives.  Robert would be away a lot, working and traveling, and Moira would have a lot of  charity meetings and social events and at those times they wouldn't be home to tuck their kids in or make sure their homework got done.  Come to think of it, did anyone make sure that homework got done?

Children can differentiate between their parents and their caregivers and love them both.  Oliver may have been close to Raisa but he would have gone to Moira to fix the Samantha situation because Moira had power and Raisa didn't.  Unless he loved Samantha and wanted emotional support to be with her which Moira wouldn't have given him but he didn't.

More than teaching Oliver Russian, did Raise teach him to cook when he was hanging out in the kitchen?  There's a few of those fanfics.

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

 Any coldness Moira showed to Thea seemed to be a part of her not handling the stress of what Malcolm very well, not a long standing pattern of behavior. 

When Oliver first got back, Thea told him that after the Gambit went down, she didn't have anyone.  Her father and brother were gone and her mother locked herself away for months.  That argues that Thea wasn't that close to Raisa. Or she was having teenage histrionics.  Or the writers forgot Raisa existed.

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think they didn't know how to parent their kids but I think they proved their unconditional love when they sacrificed themselves to save their lives..

As did Malcolm.  (Robert also laid a terrible burden on Oliver in exchange.)

Edited July 25, 2017 by statsgirl

[Hiveminder]

Absolutely, there is room for both their parents and Raisa in Oliver and Thea's lives. Just like there is room for both a regular babysitter or a grandparent who watches their grandchildren often and their parents in the average child's life. 

Yes, I'm sure someone else tucked Oliver and Thea in on nights when Robert and Moira were away or at a work function. Just like a babysitter, or grandparent, or close neighbor tucks in the child of regular parents who have to travel for work or just have a regular weekly date night. 

All I'm saying is that fics where Robert and Moira are cold, distant, borderline neglectful parents and Raisa was more of a mother to Oliver and Thea than Moira have no basis in canon. 

Robert and Moira were flawed parents and immensely flawed people, but they showed plenty of affection to their children. 

51 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

More than teaching Oliver Russian, did Raise teach him to cook when he was hanging out in the kitchen?  There's a few of those fanfics.

The impression I got from 4.01 was that Iliver had just recently learned to cook anything substantial. I imagine Raisa doted on Oliver a bit and just did things for him instead of teaching him to do them himself. 

 

54 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

As did Malcolm.  (Robert also laid a terrible burden on Oliver in exchange.)

Robert did place a terrible burden on Oliver, but he still sacrificed his life for him. Malcolm did not know the meaning of unconditional love, because his idea of love was twisted and gross. He was a truly awful parent to both Thea and Tommy, and dying was the best thing he ever did. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

As did Malcolm.  (Robert also laid a terrible burden on Oliver in exchange.)

Malcolm was a psychopath. I don't think he can be compared to people that, despite their flaws, were capable of normal feelings..

I think while Robert was away a lot because of work Moira was mainly at home so she had plenty of time to spend with them..in season 1 she is upset because she and Oliver used to talk all the time and when Oliver has the chance to contact home in S3 and S5 he reaches out to her so I think that shows a close relationship..more than lack of time spent together I think she was indulgent when Oliver would have benefited from tough love. But also nothing on the show supports that Raisa instead disciplined Oliver or Thea.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[tv echo]

https://twitter.com/StevensonJohns1/status/889534276374495236

[SmallScreenDiva]

Cute! The official Arrow account RT'd that. I wish it RT'd something that looks more like the Felicity from Arrow, but hey at least it remembered to RT something since it didn't bother to create a greeting of its own.

[statsgirl]

I'm glad Vigilante Felicity is not going to be forgotten.

Does the official Arrow account tend to acknowledge birthdays?

6 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Malcolm was a psychopath.

Not that surprising.  CEO is #1 on the list of jobs that attract psychopaths.

We know next to nothing about Raisa so there is plenty of room for imagination when fanfic writers are writing her. In a  sense she's a negative figure, filling in the spaces that Moira doesn't fill.

Neither Robert nor Moira was the kind of toxic parent Malcolm was to Tommy but they were both flawed.  Robert killed a man and then covered it up, he had questionable business dealings, was repeatedly unfaithful to his wife, and was selfish in his death.  Moira sacrificed herself for her children but she was harsh to both Samantha and Felicity because they threatened her control of her world, and lacked empathy with Oliver and Thea almost as often as she reached out to them. I honestly don't understand how a woman who is said to love her children that much can get rid of her grandchild like he's an inconvenience money will take care of, that's just cold. The fact that Oliver emotionally reached out to her is a point in her favour but even abused children are attached to their parents (not that Moira was abusive, just that Oliver's connection to her is not a definitive factor).

In the end, a fanfic writer will write how they see the show.  Goodness knows there are a ton of OOC Felicitys in fics.

[bijoux]

The fic in which Felicity finds time travelling Oliver in her bedroom after the encounter with the Clock King has been updated. I didn't finish the chapter, 

Spoiler

it felt kind of wrong for that Oliver and that Felicity to be so close and almost kissing even. Sort of pervy almost. I stopped right after that.

Does it get better? 

[Morrigan2575]

That is a cute drawing

[SmallScreenDiva]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Does the official Arrow account tend to acknowledge birthdays?

It used to, I think. I remember actual greetings for David and John Barrowman (with photos that say "Happy birthday"). 

[lemotomato]

It tweeted Happy Birthday wishes to KC too.

[EmeraldArcher]

13 hours ago, bijoux said:

The fic in which Felicity finds time travelling Oliver in her bedroom after the encounter with the Clock King has been updated. I didn't finish the chapter, 

  Reveal hidden contents

it felt kind of wrong for that Oliver and that Felicity to be so close and almost kissing even. Sort of pervy almost. I stopped right after that.

Does it get better? 

It's a really sweet chapter, but it was just too much for my taste.

Spoiler

He stops short of kissing her because he doesn't want to rob his younger self of the first kiss with Felicity. However, he does hold her and kiss her head a few times. Even though she's the same person, I've had an uneasy feeling throughout the fic that he's cheating on the Felicity from his time with this younger one.  I'm not sure that makes sense, though.

[bijoux]

I feel uneasy about it as well.

Spoiler

Though not so much from a cheating viewpoint, but more like he's a strange old dude taking advantage of this Felicity who doesn't have the experience of them being together for twenty years. Although your complaint certainly makes sense. Will the older Felicity come round to squeeze S2 Oliver's ass? She should get as least that much considering how handsy Oliver has been.

I read the aborted kiss and his explanation of "robbing" his younger self of the experience and I just couldn't go on. The fact that he was cuddling her during this just felt wrong.

It's supposed to be sweet, but I was left feeling uncomfortable.

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

It's supposed to be sweet, but I was left feeling uncomfortable.

I think another sad thing is that I was actually really liking the premise before that, like

Spoiler

the idea of future Oliver coming back to a time before they got together and trying to keep the history of their future relationship a secret from past Felicity but failing slightly because it's Felicity. The 20 years (which threw me off, since idk I was picturing like a s7/s8 Oliver) and actually doing physical stuff (not, say, by accident, which could have been less strange) is just kind of uncomfortable.

[bijoux]

Oh, I actually enjoyed the first two chapters.

Spoiler

I have a problem with the 20 years aside from that. The premise works for the time travel aspect, I think. It gives Felicity the time to develop the technology, but did she also invent technology for Oliver's body to keep rejuvenating? I have a hard time imagining him actively arrowing at 55. Almost 30 years of that can't be easy on his body. 

[bijoux]

This little Mean Girls mash up ends with a bang. ?

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I feel uneasy about it as well.

  Hide contents

Though not so much from a cheating viewpoint, but more like he's a strange old dude taking advantage of this Felicity who doesn't have the experience of them being together for twenty years. Although your complaint certainly makes sense. Will the older Felicity come round to squeeze S2 Oliver's ass? She should get as least that much considering how handsy Oliver has been.

I read the aborted kiss and his explanation of "robbing" his younger self of the experience and I just couldn't go on. The fact that he was cuddling her during this just felt wrong.

It's supposed to be sweet, but I was left feeling uncomfortable.

Spoiler

That's how I feel as well. It's weird. Felicity has some boundaries in place with Oliver in season 2 and old Oliver seems to not understand that. Also it's not the same as their E2 versions but I can't help but think in my mind that they aren't the same people so his behavior weirds me out. Also picturing him as 20 years older than her makes it even weirder.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really liked the first 2 chapters and the possibilities

Spoiler

but yeah this chapter was a bit odd. Felicity's acceptance of Oliver's confession and her ILY came much too quick, I thought. And by the middle of the chapter, she was practically on his lap and they're cuddling. I didn't feel like Oliver was cheating with his Felicity (the easiness with her I can see as coming from 20 years of being together; I think he forgets it's not her her), but it was weird for this Felicity to be so comfortable with this Oliver when at this point in season 2 she has a very different relationship with her Oliver. I wish the author kept that tension just a little bit longer.

I'm still interested enough to wait and see. I'd love to see what happens if older Oliver meets younger Oliver. 

[leopardprint]

5 hours ago, EmeraldArcher said:

It's a really sweet chapter, but it was just too much for my taste.

  Reveal hidden contents

He stops short of kissing her because he doesn't want to rob his younger self of the first kiss with Felicity. However, he does hold her and kiss her head a few times. Even though she's the same person, I've had an uneasy feeling throughout the fic that he's cheating on the Felicity from his time with this younger one.  I'm not sure that makes sense, though.

Spoiler

Even though it's set in S2, I'm not a big fan of fics that portray Felicity hopelessly pining away for Oliver given that she never did that in S2 and then did the exact opposite in S3/S5. She always pushes forward. And frankly it makes it same like Old Man Oliver is taking advantage of her because he's got 20+ years of knowledge on her but also I don't think it's really cheating since presumably Old Lady Felicity would know that he visited her younger self. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

I find the 

Spoiler

physical contact to be iffy, because like @leopardprint wrote, it does seem like he's taking advantage of future knowledge. It didn't bother me as much as some of you guys though.

What REALLY bothers me is that presumably this still happens in show's canon, so how would Felicity react to the LoA and William stuff knowing that things ultimately work out and they're happily married? Seems like there would definitely be a chance of her knowledge screwing something up in Future Oliver's world and he seems completely unconcerned about that. I'm sure it won't be addressed and everything will be fine, but it still annoys me the most, haha.

[SmallScreenDiva]

BTW, The First 48 has been updated. I'm enjoying the pace of this fic. I think knowing it ends in 20 chapters really helps. The plot and Oliver & Felicity's relationship are both progressing well.

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I find the 

  Hide contents

physical contact to be iffy, because like @leopardprint wrote, it does seem like he's taking advantage of future knowledge. It didn't bother me as much as some of you guys though.

What REALLY bothers me is that presumably this still happens in show's canon, so how would Felicity react to the LoA and William stuff knowing that things ultimately work out and they're happily married? Seems like there would definitely be a chance of her knowledge screwing something up in Future Oliver's world and he seems completely unconcerned about that. I'm sure it won't be addressed and everything will be fine, but it still annoys me the most, haha.

Maybe the author uses the 

Spoiler

Men in Black technique. Has there been mention of Oliver playing with a pen and sunglasses? ?

[Mellowyellow]

So agree with you @leopardprint! People like to write pining Felicity and it makes me wonder if they do think that she pines for real or if they just enjoy tweaking the narrative, which I can get behind more. 

I love that she doesn't pine. She tried to make it work with Barry in S2, then acknowledged in the Flash episode that she was into Oliver and then pushed forward with Ray when Oliver was a twit. It's one of my favourite things about her. Backfired a bit in S5 but I like it that she has a backbone. 

[Kymmi]

I imagined the Moira/Samantha situation differently and wouldn't mind reading fic about it.  When Moira paid her off, I always assumed she would stay in her life.  Samantha was young/naive/stupid, and it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine someone like that, living alone with no family, to accept this glamorous grandmother figure into their lives.  Whether Moira would have let William know who she was is questionable, but I ALWAYS imagined she would keep close reign on an Oliver child.

[statsgirl]

I think I remember that when Samantha told Moira that she was going to move to Central City to raise the baby, she said it was because she had family there.

Thea said that she found an uncashed cheque among Moira's papers.  If Moira had been following Samantha and her grandchild, wouldn't have been pictures and copies of report cards in her papers?  Samantha herself knew so little about Oliver and his current life and was still so angry at him, it suggests she didn't have any contact with the Queens after William was born because if she had known Moira, she might have been more willing to let Oliver into William's life and let Thea know she's an aunt.

Edited July 28, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

Wait, if Samantha found an uncashed check among Moira's papers and Samantha had an uncashed check...did we just prove that Samantha didn't after all cash one of the two checks or was it just a RECORD or a copy of an uncashed check which could have been just a copy of the one that Samantha showed off to Oliver?

[statsgirl]

Do I have to rewatch the scene?  Thea told Oliver he did the right thing, and my eyes bled.

I think you're right, Thea found a record of an uncashed cheque.  My bad.  Of course Moira wouldn't have kept the actual cheque out of some notalgia if Samantha didn't want it; she'd have destroyed the evidence.

[BkWurm1]

28 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Do I have to rewatch the scene?  Thea told Oliver he did the right thing, and my eyes bled.

I think you're right, Thea found a record of an uncashed cheque.  My bad.  Of course Moira wouldn't have kept the actual cheque out of some notalgia if Samantha didn't want it; she'd have destroyed the evidence.

2

I would never be so cruel.  ;)

[Morrigan2575]

I thought Thea found a record of a cashed check?

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought Thea found a record of a cashed check?

The Department of Homeland security did a tax audit after the Undertaking and they found record of a check to Samantha Clayton for $1M but it was never cashed. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by apinknightmare

[leopardprint]

31 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The Department of Homeland security did a tax audit after the Undertaking and they found record of a check to Samantha Clayton for $1M but it was never cashed. 

How does an uncashed check show up on tax records? ?

Also why is DHS doing a tax audit? ?

Why am I expecting realistic depictions of government agencies and processes from Arrow? ?

[Morrigan2575]

39 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The Department of Homeland security did a tax audit after the Undertaking and they found record of a check to Samantha Clayton for $1M but it was never cashed. 

Thanks for the explanation. It doesn't sound right to me (not doubting your info), like they used the wrong detail in the script.  Probably because they were only going off of 308 a desperately wanted to cover up Shady Samantha.

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

How does an uncashed check show up on tax records? ?

Also why is DHS doing a tax audit? ?

Why am I expecting realistic depictions of government agencies and processes from Arrow? ?

I don't know why they didn't just have some nameless old Queen family friend/accountant bring one of Moira's old ledgers out to show Thea this uncashed check was out there somewhere and was something she should look into when said family friend/accountant found out Oliver was running for mayor.

Edited July 28, 2017 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Thanks for the explanation. It doesn't sound right to me (not doubting your info), like they used the wrong detail in the script.  Probably because they were only going off of 308 a desperately wanted to cover up Shady Samantha.

It's stupid for many reasons, mostly because they forgot Moira promised a second check once Samantha left, and ignored the fact that Moira wasn't the kind of person who would've let a payoff slide and ALSO seems like the kind of person who would've at the very least secretly kept track of William once she thought Oliver was dead - if not demand that she be involved in his life because he's a piece of her son left behind.

Ugh, the whole storyline is just such garbage.