Meredith Quill June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 Episode 9 Synopsis: Jon Snow and the Night's Watch face a big challenge. Here is a chance to speculate about what events may or may not occur in episode 9 only. There will be weekly episode spec threads for individual episodes from now on so please either save your thoughts about ep 10 for next week or post them in another appropriate thread. This is a Book Talk thread, therefore, if you are unspoiled please leave now or risk spoilers. Thank you. Link to comment
Haldebrandt June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 (edited) For the record: I've long been quite apprehensive of this episode for multiple reasons, mainly because it's a misguided attempt to visually upstage Blackwater, but with a smaller audience investment. I maintain that dedicating both an entire hour and the 9th episode to this event is a mistake. BUT I'd love to be wrong, so let's see what happens. Edited June 4, 2014 by Haldebrandt 3 Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 (edited) Not to mention Blackwater had a lot going on besides the battle itself, and multiple viewpoints (Stannis, Davos, Sansa, Cersei, Joff, Tyrion, the Hound etc.) I'm wondering what they will do for The Watchers on the Wall. There can obviously be a heartbreaking scene where Jon finds/runs to a dying Ygritte ("You know nothing Jon Snow.") but other than that can a lot happen other than just fighting? Also there doesn't seem to be as many different main characters, I guess Jon Snow, Ygritte, Sam, Mance and the Lord of Bones? Is that enough? I guess we'll see. I'm not including Stannis and Co. in this list because it seems like he'll be playing the savior role like Tywin and Loras did in Blackwater, we'll only see him at the end of it all in order to keep the suspense up. I'm hoping they bend the rules a bit on the "one locale rule" and we get a little Bran interlude. It'd be nice to catch up with Bran since we haven't seen him since episode 5. Edited June 4, 2014 by Maximum Taco 1 Link to comment
mac123x June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 Yeah, I'm not anticipating this one like I did with Blackwater, or even the Rains of Castamere, mainly because I'm uninterested in most of the characters involved. I really like Sam, but he's not cut out for battle (though shivving a White Walker was great). Jon Snow is meh; Kit Harrington's greatest acting skill is that he looks good with his shirt off, and all we ever see is him in layers of fur. With the set up of a few defenders versus 100,000 attackers, I'm getting a distinct 300 vibe. I wonder who will get these lines: "This is madness!" "THIS! IS! THE! NIGHT'S! WATCH!" [kick someone off the wall instead of down a well] 4 Link to comment
Haldebrandt June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 Yeah, I'm not anticipating this one like I did with Blackwater, or even the Rains of Castamere, mainly because I'm uninterested in most of the characters involved. I really like Sam, but he's not cut out for battle (though shivving a White Walker was great). Jon Snow is meh; Kit Harrington's greatest acting skill is that he looks good with his shirt off, and all we ever see is him in layers of fur. Yeah. I'd be more excited about things if Harrington were a better actor. For example, much I hated the beetles convo, DInklage's face at the end of the monologue still haunts me. Tyrion was rank with fear. If Harrington were of that caliber, we might trust him to sell the shit out of their desperation far better than their endless mentions of a 100K wildlings. I did like their scene in the last episode a lot. I hope Grenn, Pyp and Ed aren't just nameless faces to the Unsullied, but they probably are. Link to comment
mac123x June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 Also, it's repeating a pattern of this season, where something momentous and consquential happens (Tyrion's trial) then we don't get back to it for two weeks. This is worse than Lysa's death because at least the excuse there was "no episode Memorial Weekend". Now it's "Tyrion has been sentenced to death! We'll get back to that later. Meanwhile, in a story you don't really care about..." 4 Link to comment
Hanahope June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 Yeah, I expect that most of the episode will be in the north. We have the Wall fight with various points of view/scenes (Jon, Sam, Ygritte, giants, Thenns, Mance) probably over a couple different scenes with Stannis showing up in the second half of the hour to finish the battle. I also expect we'll see Bran's story completion for the season, with his meeting the the third-eye'd raven. I presume the conclusion to Tyrion's story needs at least 3 scenes. First, Jamie has to get him out of jail through the secret tunnel. Then he has to confront Tywin/Shae and resolve that. Finally, he meets with Varys for the final escape. We may get the first scene in this episode, or at least a set up scene to Jamie helping the escape. Arya needs at least 2 scenes, one with the Hound collapsing and her leaving, and then getting on the ship to Braavos. We may get the first here, leaving the second for the last episode. I think we need something setting up the LSH reveal, either Brienne (most likely) or Arya hearing about or seeing Freys hanged. Link to comment
Haldebrandt June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 It's been known for a while that this episode would be entirely Wall. The recap confirms it. There is not gonna be any Bran scene. It's all Wall. Link to comment
Winnief June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 I respectfully must disagree with all the naysayers about this episode-the pictures up at WIC make this look pretty epic, and as the show in its second half if going to have to increasingly concentrate on the threat from beyond the Wall, I think you can make a good case that a Castle Black episode is needed about now. Plus don't forget "Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!" As for concerns about fitting everything into Episode 10, it has a run time of 66 minutes, (longest episode to date,) so I think we'll be ok. 1 Link to comment
Lady S. June 4, 2014 Share June 4, 2014 (edited) I just wanna see Ghost get free again and go Grey Wind in the battle. Mammoths are in And Ygritte's last words should be in, after getting shot by the littlest archer. Edited June 5, 2014 by Lady S. Link to comment
RapBert June 5, 2014 Share June 5, 2014 Although I don't care much for Jon Snow or the wildlings, I'm really looking forward to the action. I hope the other guys make it out of the fight alive. I know Edd survives, but I don't remember much about the others. And of course, there's Stannis' big damn heroes moment. That is what I want to see the most. Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 5, 2014 Share June 5, 2014 It's been known for a while that this episode would be entirely Wall. The recap confirms it. There is not gonna be any Bran scene. It's all Wall. That's a shame, but it's also deliciously cruel that the writers/producers want to leave the unspoiled twisting in the wind in regards to Tyrion's fate. 1 Link to comment
Lady S. June 5, 2014 Share June 5, 2014 I'm predicting right now that Alliser Thorne gets a heroic death (hopefully the only one for our boys in black), and Jon's only competition for LC come the finale is Lord Blockhead and some glorified extras, since that whole sequence will have to be rushed through anyway. I also think Stannis will probably be seen leading the charge, since they already changed that aspect of Blackwater, and hopefully he gets to kill a Thenn or save one of the recognizable boys in black like Pyp or Sam. A heroic knightly moment for the Onion Knight seems likely too, I'd doubt they'd leave Davos out just because he's not there in the book. I expect the whole thing to be filled with cliches, complete with a heartwarming Sam/Gilly reunion, but hopefully they'll be filmed as well as the cliches in Blackwater. Link to comment
joliefaire June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I remember, too, we saw on a 'making of' or one of those lengthy behind-the-scenes featurettes, the dozens (100s?) of straw men cloaked in black that Jon Snow ordered constructed to line the top of the wall, making it look like there were many more rangers up there than actually exist. A minor point, but a scene I think could provide some sense of the Watch's frantic desperation in the build-up to the attack. 1 Link to comment
PeteMartell June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I agree with those who are dubious of this working for an entire episode, and I also agree that the show really hasn't done enough to make us care about the Night's Watch outside of Sam and Jon. I have to admit I'm kind of happy to get a break from the King's Landing stuff, although I know many would disagree. I have to wonder if they will kill Aemon off here instead of his later death (isn't it after a sea voyage?), to help add some pathos. There are a few things I'm looking forward to: - Stannis' arrival, hopefully with some moments of righteous fury and bad-assness worthy of him - Davos' arrival (I hope he's there) - if Melisandre is shown helping the group (or if she won't be there until the finale) - Ygritte's death - I am going to miss Rose Leslie, who has always been a bright spot as Ygritte, but I am hoping they will get the emotional resonance right (which they haven't several times this season). Dying in Jon's arms SHOULD be a gut-wrenching moment. I think Rose and Kit have always had chemistry (their brutal parting in Mhysa was one of the high points of the episode), and Kit always acts well with her. - Gilly's reunion with Sam Link to comment
dr pepper June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 That's a shame, but it's also deliciously cruel that the writers/producers want to leave the unspoiled twisting in the wind in regards to Tyrion's fate. The writers all belong to House Grrim, emblem: a beard, motto: "We Smash Beetles". 2 Link to comment
ffaristocrat June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 (edited) The Unsullied seem to have really bought the misdirection with Stannis. They all think he's going to attack King's Landing again. I agree Thorne is going to get a heroic death, fighting the giant in the tunnel and telling Jon "The Wall is your's, Lord Snow" before going in. Edited June 6, 2014 by ffaristocrat 2 Link to comment
Avaleigh June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Okay, so I'm behind on the news and had no idea the entire episode would be at the Wall without even a break for Bran. The fact that even die hard fans are apprehensive about this decision tells me a lot. As far as the speculation that Alliser Thorne will die--isn't he the most likely person they'll end up sending to Hardhome? (Man, I thought it was a missed opportunity to not have one of Craster's wives double as the role of the woman who leads those wildlings to Hardhome.) Having Maester Aemon die at the Wall doesn't really work because why wouldn't Melisandre use his body? Link to comment
mac123x June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 (edited) I hope it's not just a reprise of Blackwater. I'm afraid that has an artistic symmetry that'll be irresistable to the writers. "Last time it was Stannis who had victory snatched from his grasp by the last-minute arrival of an outside force, this time it's Stannis doing the rescuing! Aren't we clever!" Not so much, really. Trite, yes, clever, no. IIRC, in the books the seige took place over several days, and included a fight inside Castle Black and several attempts to breach the gate through the Wall. The threat from the south was already dealt with, and Ygritte and friends were already dead by the time Stannis arrived. Thorne and company had sent Jon out to assassinate Mance during a fake parley when Stannis attacked. That worked in the books, but I get the impression that the writers will want a single protracted battle scene, with Mance's forces trying to break through the gate while simultaneously Ygritte's group is fighting inside Caste Black. Stannis's miraculous arrival will have to be on both sides of the Wall at once. I guess that could work; Stannis attacks Mance north of the Wall while Davos leads reinforcements to Castle Black south of the Wall. (Heh, potential Star Wars nod: Davos pulls off his helm and says "I'm Davos Seaworth. I'm hear to rescue you.") Edited June 6, 2014 by mac123x Link to comment
benteen June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I hope Thorne gets an heroic death. Punchable as he might be, he is still one of the more interesting characters at the Wall and I think it would work the best. Shame we never got the background on how he got to the Wall in the first place. Also, if he does die (and I think this likely) it's too bad we won't get his legitimately badass threat to Jon from ADWD. The "I'm coming back, one way or the other" line. Link to comment
Pete Martell June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Having Maester Aemon die at the Wall doesn't really work because why wouldn't Melisandre use his body? Shireen seems to have that role now, unless it's misdirection. Link to comment
Avaleigh June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Sorry, I meant why bother with Shireen as the sacrifice since that would just anger Stannis if she has a body full of king's blood right in front of her? Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I hope Thorne gets an heroic death. Punchable as he might be, he is still one of the more interesting characters at the Wall and I think it would work the best. Shame we never got the background on how he got to the Wall in the first place. Also, if he does die (and I think this likely) it's too bad we won't get his legitimately badass threat to Jon from ADWD. The "I'm coming back, one way or the other" line. Well in the books he was a Targaryen loyalist who stood against the Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Lord Tywin gave him the choice between death or taking the Black. He reasonably chose the Wall. Link to comment
Meredith Quill June 6, 2014 Author Share June 6, 2014 Kit Harington says the Battle of Castle Black is “as big as TV goes”. Link to WiC.net article. Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Kit Harington says the Battle of Castle Black is “as big as TV goes”. Link to WiC.net article. Wow, they are hyping this pretty hard. I have a feeling a lot of us are gonna be disappointed. Link to comment
Meredith Quill June 6, 2014 Author Share June 6, 2014 I think the biggest issue there will be, is that viewers are 100x more interested in discovering Tyrion's fate, than the wall storyline which means ep9 is gonna get a lot of stick and disappointment over that alone. 1 Link to comment
Avaleigh June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I have a feeling that I might end up being pleasantly surprised since my expectations aren't all that high. My expectations were probably wildly high for the PW and the BoB and both of those episodes, though they are among my favorites in the entire series (BoB probably is my favorite in fact), I had some things that I really wanted to see that didn't make it. With the battle at the Wall, there isn't any one thing that I'm especially excited to see so I don't anticipate much, if any disappointment. Boredom maybe but not disappointment. I'd forgotten that Thorne was a Targaryen loyalist. I imagine his head would just about explode if he ended up learning that Jon is in fact a son of Rhaegar's. Link to comment
benteen June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 (edited) Well in the books he was a Targaryen loyalist who stood against the Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Lord Tywin gave him the choice between death or taking the Black. He reasonably chose the Wall. Oh, I know his background. I'm just sorry it never went from the books to the screen. I always found it to be an interesting piece of backstory. At least we'll also have Peter Vaughn appearing as Aemon. I love his performance as the character. I wonder if they'll reference that he is actually a relative of Stannis. I did like that Stannis knew who he was in the books. Thorne was a Targaryan loyalist although he was buddies with a Lannister crony in Janos Slynt. Edited June 6, 2014 by benteen Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Oh, I know his background. I'm just sorry it never went from the books to the screen. I always found it to be an interesting piece of backstory. At least we'll also have Peter Vaughn appearing as Aemon. I love his performance as the character. I wonder if they'll reference that he is actually a relative of Stannis. I did like that Stannis knew who he was in the books. Thorne was a Targaryan loyalist although he was buddies with a Lannister crony in Janos Slynt. I think the term loyalist might be misleading. I don't think Ser Alliser was all that loyal, his house was simply from the Crownlands and he owed allegiance to King's Landing, either that or he simply chose the wrong side. And he ended up being unlucky that Tywin (who as Tyrion says is "fond of sticking heads on pikes") was the one who took the city. If Robert had been the one to take King's Landing I think he might have been willing to grant a lot of pardons that Tywin didn't. Link to comment
jjjmoss June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 It's weird how, given that the book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, the main POV for both the Ice and the Fire are played by actors who are so...let's say divisive in their talents, and thought of best for their being gorgeous than anything else. I wouldn't want to see an episode centered around a hypothetical big battle involving Dany and her forces vs. the slavers' forces, because of the lack of investment on my part in the location and Clarke's lack of investment in creating a believable character. And I don't think this will be particularly exciting either. But I'm not an action fan, so it should satisfy people who are at least... Link to comment
Pete Martell June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Sorry, I meant why bother with Shireen as the sacrifice since that would just anger Stannis if she has a body full of king's blood right in front of her? I guess I'm assuming his body will be destroyed before Melisandre has any chance of getting to it. I realize I'm just talking out of my ass, since I've heard nothing about him being killed off. I suppose I was trying to figure out if they're going to write some of the Wall characters out now to simplify future stories. I guess it depends on whether or not they want to still have that relationship between Jon and Melisandre. Link to comment
Maximum Taco June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 I guess I'm assuming his body will be destroyed before Melisandre has any chance of getting to it. I realize I'm just talking out of my ass, since I've heard nothing about him being killed off. I suppose I was trying to figure out if they're going to write some of the Wall characters out now to simplify future stories. I guess it depends on whether or not they want to still have that relationship between Jon and Melisandre. I don't think killing Aemon would simplify things more than sending him away. Jon sends him and Sam away pretty soon after the battle. It really depends on whether or not they pursue the Oldtown storyline. If Sam stays at the Wall I can see them killing Aemon in this battle, if they plan to send him to Oldtown they probably keep Aemon alive and send him with Sam. Link to comment
Pete Martell June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Wow, they are hyping this pretty hard. I have a feeling a lot of us are gonna be disappointed. I think if you take out Kit's comments (which are to be expected, given the importance to Jon's story) the hype isn't too heavy, but they really made a mistake in shelving the wildlings for about 5 episodes. As a result there is little sense of urgency. The pacing this season has confused me. I think the biggest issue there will be, is that viewers are 100x more interested in discovering Tyrion's fate, than the wall storyline which means ep9 is gonna get a lot of stick and disappointment over that alone. They may have been better off saving Oberyn's fight to episode 9 and having the Wall battle as episode 8. In a way this is a test for the show, because they've already had to see whether viewers will still tune in with the Starks having an increasingly minor role. Now they will have to see how viewers will react to less and less of the Lannisters (whose roles have already been whittled down over the course of the season anyway). The critics and watercooler types always tend to pooh-pooh anything that isn't about Tyrion, Dany, or Arya. I guess we'll see how this episode affects the ratings for the finale, or if viewers won't mind it as much. 1 Link to comment
Meredith Quill June 6, 2014 Author Share June 6, 2014 This just in: David Benioff and Dan Weiss tease Sunday’s big episode, and detail the challenges of filming the battle. Another WiC.net article. Link to comment
Tippi June 6, 2014 Share June 6, 2014 Jon and Stannis, and their major supporters Sam and Davos, are some of my favorites on the show. I'm looking forward to some meaty scenes for them. I am going to hate it if anything bad happens to Shireen! And go get 'em, Ghost. So long as Ramsay Bolton and the Mountain don't show up at the Wall, I'll be happy. 1 Link to comment
PeteMartell June 7, 2014 Share June 7, 2014 I like all of those characters too (and Melisandre, and Selyse, and Shireen...the whole Dragonstone group, although I'm not expecting to see Mel and Selyse with swords, sadly). I hope we will get a decent amount of them and not just save Stannis and co for the last few minutes. Link to comment
dr pepper June 7, 2014 Share June 7, 2014 One thing that the unsullied are going to miss is what a big deal it is for Stannis to ignore the neutrality of the Watch (which has lasted for at least 3, possibly 4 thousand years, through umpteen changes in rulership, plus one change in racial makeup), and treat them as just another faction to be enrolled under his banner. Link to comment
Haldebrandt June 7, 2014 Share June 7, 2014 (edited) Well in the books he was a Targaryen loyalist who stood against the Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Lord Tywin gave him the choice between death or taking the Black. He reasonably chose the Wall. If I ever knew this, I certainly completely forgot it. This helps explain his visceral hate for Jon. I think if you take out Kit's comments (which are to be expected, given the importance to Jon's story) the hype isn't too heavy, but they really made a mistake in shelving the wildlings for about 5 episodes. As a result there is little sense of urgency. The pacing this season has confused me. It was the same with season 2. Of my many sore points of that season, is that Kl should have increasingly felt like a city witnessing a gathering storm. A growing sense of impeding doom should have prevailed. There should have been more signs of preparing for a siege. Oh there were some scenes, but they just never felt right. Varys and Tyrion discussing Stannis's arrival in broad daylight, looking out to sea, enjoying a gorgeous view? Who the fuck came up with that? Do these people understand "ominous"? And pacing has never been great on this show, both season-wise and episode-wise. Edited June 7, 2014 by Haldebrandt 1 Link to comment
Meredith Quill June 7, 2014 Author Share June 7, 2014 One thing that the unsullied are going to miss is what a big deal it is for Stannis to ignore the neutrality of the Watch (which has lasted for at least 3, possibly 4 thousand years, through umpteen changes in rulership, plus one change in racial makeup), and treat them as just another faction to be enrolled under his banner. I will be surprised if this isn't made apparent to viewers by Jon & co during their after battle talks with Stannis; it would be very strange if it isn't brought into the conversation I think. Link to comment
Pete Martell June 7, 2014 Share June 7, 2014 It was the same with season 2. Of my many sore points of that season, is that Kl should have increasingly felt like a city witnessing a gathering storm. A growing sense of impeding doom should have prevailed. There should have been more signs of preparing for a siege. Oh there were some scenes, but they just never felt right. Varys and Tyrion discussing Stannis's arrival in broad daylight, looking out to sea, enjoying a gorgeous view? Who the fuck came up with that? Do these people understand "ominous"? And pacing has never been great on this show, both season-wise and episode-wise. Definitely. I guess in season 2 I bought it a little more because you had moments like Tyrion finding the blackwater, and they were trying to show the danger in place. This season, I haven't really felt a sense of danger or stakes. I don't think it helps when there's always the fandom joke about how this is all because Jon has a pissed off girlfriend. I know the show hasn't made it about that, but since Ygritte is really the only one of the group we know very well, it sometimes comes across that way. Link to comment
Trisan June 8, 2014 Share June 8, 2014 Like I just said on the preview thread, THIS is the episode I've been awaiting for six years. The Battle at the Wall is the most visual and breathtaking moment of the book, imo. So much happens. So reading all these comments of hatred is difficult for me since this episode has all it takes, if done right, to become my favorite Game of Thrones episode ever. It's gonna be intense and epic. Full of small moments of bravery, sadness, sacrifices, anger, responsability. And anyway... MAMMOOOOOOOTHS ! 1 Link to comment
benteen June 8, 2014 Share June 8, 2014 So I was thinking, there's only going to be about 6 or 7 actors credited in the main cast I would think. Link to comment
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