Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[Yours Truly]

Most of the time, Kyle really is in a "dammed if she does, dammed if she doesn't"  situation with Kim. Blow Kim off or ignore her, Kyle is an uncaring asshole, show concern, anger or fear at something Kim has said/done and she is "using Kim". I really don't know what some want Kyle to do when Kim gets out of control, high, drunk or acts like her normal nasty self towards everyone around her but most of all, towards Kyle, I really don't understand it at all.

I totally wouldn't have raked Kyle across the coals had she let Kim leave with Brandi. Why? Now if she would have let Kim leave with Brandi then start crying and talking shit after she left then yeah but if she would let it go then said to the ladies I guess I'll just give her a call tomorrow and get to the bottom of all that then ummmmm where is that something to avoid? As a Kim defender and  Kyle "not liker" I know I can say that nope. Not damned if she does, or doesn't. Had she left it alone I would have given her a loud applause!

[Sincerely Yours]

Just when I thought I couldn't fall any further down the rabbit hole... now it's about California's laws about what constitutes assault and battery? Contractual obligations and who is really in control of the comings and goings of an actual person/persons?

 

Put a fork in me I'm done.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sincerely Yours

[zoeysmom]

The initial debate was actually about Kyle being wrong to put her hands on Brandi. All the rest of this comes out because in order to defend Kyle in that one moment there's this disjointed connection being made with the hijinx throughout the night by Kim and Brandi and Kyle being justified in putting her hands on Brandi. For me, I challenge that thought process. The one where because Kim's an addict and Brandi's "trash" that this automatically makes what Kyle did okay or at the very least justified. I can agree with it being understandable but justified or even provoked? That's a stretch that my integrity won't let me get on board with even though I can see where it would be easy to do so.

 

It's shifting into so many different directions that we are back to who's bad, who's good, who's more this that and the other. 

 

Alls I know is, that little moment between Kim's parting words and Kyle flopping down those stairs was a complete fail on Kyle's part and maybe one minute before Kim was at fault and 2 minutes after Brandi was deplorable but in the moments in the hall it was Kyle that was exhibiting completely heinous behavior. They all acted out at different moments and it all extracted not so nice reactions. 

Again how does it change the discussion if Kyle is in the wrong?  Does it clear Brandi and Kim of their behavior?  I believe the problem is the amped retelling of the filmed event.

 

I did not see anything that rose to "heinous".  Should Kyle keep her hands to herself absolutely and there was nothing to be gained by keeping Kyle from talking to Kim.  Brandi cannot just decide who can talk to Kim and who can't and use her body as a barrier.

 

There was another situation where Brandi gave Kim a huge pass and then Kim tried to blame it on Kyle.  In Amsterdam, Kim caused a pile up in the escalator -and yes it was Kim's fault for not following the rules regarding carts, rolling suitcases on escalators.  It became about Kyle causing the group to be late. 

[Avaleigh]

Plus, the attitude is 'too bad for Kyle that she got into an altercation with a woman who is nearly six feet tall' but that doesn't extend to 'too bad Brandi had her arm pulled down after she used it to deliberately block Kyle from going where she wanted to go'. There is absolutely a double standard at work here. 

 

It also doesn't excuse Brandi repeatedly resorting to engaging in physical contact. It's amazing to me that Kyle is seen as the chief offender that night to the point where it gives Brandi and Kim a clean slate with their atrocious behavior. Kim and Brandi can act like assholes the entire night both before and after the arm grabbing incident but Kyle is raked over the coals after responding to being physically touched by Brandi. If it's wrong to physically touch someone (and it is) then it was wrong when Brandi initiated physical contact with Kyle. 

 

It is conveniently forgotten that Kim didn't even leave when she said she wanted to so desperately. I thought Kim absolutely got off on being the center of attention and having Brandi and Kyle fight over her. 

[Yours Truly]

.

 

I did not see anything that rose to "heinous".  Should Kyle keep her hands to herself absolutely and there was nothing to be gained by keeping Kyle from talking to Kim.  Brandi cannot just decide who can talk to Kim and who can't and use her body as a barrier.

 

 

Nothing to be gain? How about them not fighting? I think that was worth keeping them apart.

 

Brandi didn't decide who can talk to Kim. Kim did by saying she didn't want to talk to Kyle.

 

Kyle's the one imposing her will in that instance.

 

Also not understanding why all of these non related examples continue to be inserted into one particular point that's trying to be made about Kyle and her grabby hands.

 

Kim crashing her cart on an escalator

Brandi this

Kim that

Brandi that

Kim this

 

It's really just mudding the issue. IMO

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Umbelina]

jinjer, on 14 Mar 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

    It's omitted because Brandi is a bad, drunken, obnoxious slut who only does bad things, and everything Brandi does is bad. She's slutty.  She got drunk and showed a tampon string ON PURPOSE!!!! She did it on purpose! She knew it was there and showed it! Because she was drunk! Anything Brandi touches is wrong! Everyone of them drink around Kim including her sister, but if Brandi does, it's bad! Kyle only touched Brandi's arm.  She didn't grab her twice.  She only touched her, softly with angels kisses.  Sweet, innocent Kyle who never menaces anyone with that stubby finger in someone's face. I don't even think she put her hand on Brandi's arm; she merely tapped her on the shoulder and said, "Excuse me madam, would you graciously let me pass so that I might speak with my sister please?"

 

Awesome! This had me in a serious fit of giggles...Loved it!! 

Oh ditto!  Laughing my ass off her, because you are SO RIGHT!  Applause!

 

It was two steps. And Brandi was both retreating and had explicitly told Kyle not to grab her.

Kyle did not fall down the steps and crack her skull open, the chances of that happening were very low. I don't see the relevance in judging Brandi for something that didn't happen, and wasn't remotely likely to happen. Kyle started a scuffle, while she was wearing platform heels, with a much taller woman near some steps. Kyle chose to do that.

Kyle needed her camera moment, she didn't give one damn about Kim in that moment, because if she did?  As a supposedly caring sister, she would have let Kim leave, or left WITH her.  Instead she got physical with Brandi, who had both hands full of food.

Who initiated the aggressive physical contact? Who crossed that legal line? Kyle. I'm not saying Kim and Brandi weren't rude. They were, but this is a Real Housewives show.

Exactly.  Brandi MUST be wrong though, she has to be, because Kyle is a super duper wonderful martyr and Brandi isn't our kind dear.

 

Brandi was partly blocking Kyle, but she also had food in both her hands. At that point, when the three of them were making their way out, it was silent Kim walking to her car to be driven home, Brandi was calmly trying to get that accomplished, and Kyle was frantically trying to reach Kim to have a discussion that at best would've resulted in acrimony and Richards sisters finger pointing. Brandi obstructing Kyle from pestering Kim, by maintaining two feet of separation, after Kim had told Kyle to leave her alone, wasn't a bad thing.

 

Yes.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

Kyle chases down Kim, Brandi blocks her path to Kim without touching Kyle, Kyle initiates the physical altercation rather abruptly, Brandi reacts and defends herself. Kyle finds her dumb ass tripping down some stairs cause the person she's grabbing at and getting physical with isn't liking that this bitch is putting her hands on them. 

 

That moment, those few seconds.. Pretty cut and dry to me. All that other stuff is neither here nor there when it comes down to that one particular detail. IMO.

Thanks.  That is exactly what went down.

 

Of course it was. Kyle's default position as Kim's long suffering sister dictates that she can prolong uncomfortable situations, demand to have talks at the worst possible moments and put even more of a spotlight on her sisters "odd" behavior in front of an audience. Kyle distress usually HAS to be humored no matter how ill timed it is. Ever notice that? At a table full of guests? At a party? In a limo? At poker night? How many times has Kyle found it necessary to call Kim out on something in some of the most public of situations? I mean sure Kim's a mess but hells bells does Kyle never let an opportunity to shine that light on her slip away.

 

During the last season Kim was on Kyle passed the torch and towards the second half of the season the newbies took over the task of bringing shit up over and over and over again in pretty public settings. Uggghhh. It's so contrived. Maybe the incidences aren't contrived but what is contrived is the part when they ignore the natural instinct to either deescalate or be discreet in favor of giving the cameras something good to film. I do believe a lot of stuff happens naturally its just when it gets to the place where you can see where the decision is made to NOT put a pin in something and to prolong a situation. That's what I call bullshit on.

Ditto.  Bullshit.

 

Kyle was trying to prevent Kim from exercising her right to leave the premises, that's why she was trying to get in front of Kim, to literally stand in her way. Brandi acted defensively to prevent Kyle from blocking herself and Kim from lawfully exiting. The aggressive physical contact was initiated by Kyle. Kim had the right to leave, she wanted to leave and she told Kyle to leave her alone. Kyle ignored that and in trying to detain Kim she got in a scuffle with a 6 foot tall woman. Tough shit for Kyle.

Kyle got off easy, Brandi had bruises.

I totally wouldn't have raked Kyle across the coals had she let Kim leave with Brandi. Why? Now if she would have let Kim leave with Brandi then start crying and talking shit after she left then yeah but if she would let it go then said to the ladies I guess I'll just give her a call tomorrow and get to the bottom of all that then ummmmm where is that something to avoid? As a Kim defender and  Kyle "not liker" I know I can say that nope. Not damned if she does, or doesn't. Had she left it alone I would have given her a loud applause!

I would have stood up and applauded Kyle, if she hadn't done that, if she had simply let Kim leave, and as a lady, said to the others, "Kim isn't well, it's better that she left."  Of course, then Kyle would have had her hysterics and fake tears and made it all about HER HER HER, and demanded everyone console and admire her for the rest of the night.  As she does...

It is conveniently forgotten that Kim didn't even leave when she said she wanted to so desperately. I thought Kim absolutely got off on being the center of attention and having Brandi and Kyle fight over her. 

You know what?  If that were my sister, I would have helped her leave, I'd want her away from the cameras too.  I would have said, "OK honey, say your goodbyes, and then we can go home together and talk." 

 

THAT is how you win over "fans" Kyle, be a fucking human being who cares more about your impaired sister than your own poor-me image, and the scenes of tears coming up (again, some more) for later BRAVO scenes.

 

The time and place to have serious conversations with addicts is NOT when they are stoned out of their minds, and it's not for camera time on a reality TV show.  That's just so gross.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Umbelina

[Satchels of gold]

As for Kyle delighting in dragging Kim in front of the cameras that just isn't true. There have been numerous scenes including Hawaii, Paris, the season two finale and the scene where Kim drops in while Kyle is hopping with her mother in law where Kim was very clearly under the influence and Kyle engaged with her, never once mentioning what most of us knew, that Kim was not in anyway sober.

[Yours Truly]

 If it's wrong to physically touch someone (and it is) then it was wrong when Brandi initiated physical contact with Kyle. 

Well this detail is being debated as well. There's an argument that Brandi never actually touched Kyle.

 

I'll go even further and say that even if some part of her arm or back or hip brushed Kyle so that Brandi could position herself as a shield for Kim that's different that deliberately reaching out and being aggressive. Assigning some stealth, martial arts menace to Brandi's handsfree (hands occupied actually) attempt to get Kim out of there doesn't change how out of line Kyle's actions were.

 

I find it to be completely wonderous how the act of trying to keep an already tense situation from escalating by trying to keep the aggravated parties separate has turned into such a horrible act. When in reality wouldn't most people gravitate towards this path but it's Brandi so whats normally considered a level headed move has now morphed into an aberration. That I don't get.

 

But yeah Brandi threw wine in Eileens face, Kim told Lisa Rinna to eat another piece of bread... All that applies and is relevant to just trying to call out how wrong Kyle behaved in that situation.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Umbelina]

Well, I don't see it that way, right now we are talking about one horrendous scene, but there have been others.

 

Does Kyle do it every single time?  No.  However, that's not really the point.

 

I do think Kyle continues to use Kim though, even though Kim is not on the show.  It gets Kyle (formerly detested as a housewife) a ton of sympathy, so she keeps it up.  She even gets Bethenny and her Aunt in very staged scenes this season to come in and make sure she gets the sympathetic edit and a chance to talk about Kim.  With the other wives, that allows her to pretend to "not want to talk about it" and do her offended talking heads.  When they aren't gossiping about Yo or Brandi that is.  Sooner or later it comes back to Kim, and Kyle brings on the tears, aaannnnnnndddd, SCENE!

 

I just don't buy any of the bullpoop she's selling.  Do I think Kim's problems have been hard for Kyle?  Oh yes, I do.  She's gotten even though, she's wearing the "BEST SISTER!!!  MOMMY'S FAVORITE NOW!" crown, so just let it go.  She's a grown woman, she should be able to handle questions about her sister and gossip about her sister gracefully while cameras are in her face by now.  She's had years of experience on Bravo.  But that doesn't bring home the money, so she continues to play the game.

 

The problem is, on Kim's side, this is no game. If it was, well, hell, she's bleeding to death on the sidelines, do you really need to keep kicking balls through the empty goal to prove you've won? 

 

If Brandi really did want to get physical with Kyle that night, Kyle would have been on her ass with a black eye.  She didn't, and Kyle wasn't.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Umbelina

[kokapetl]

The initial debate was actually about Kyle being wrong to put her hands on Brandi. All the rest of this comes out because in order to defend Kyle in that one moment there's this disjointed connection being made with the hijinx throughout the night by Kim and Brandi and Kyle being justified in putting her hands on Brandi. For me, I challenge that thought process. The one where because Kim's an addict and Brandi's "trash" that this automatically makes what Kyle did okay or at the very least justified. I can agree with it being understandable but justified or even provoked? That's a stretch that my integrity won't let me get on board with even though I can see where it would be easy to do so.

It's shifting into so many different directions that we are back to who's bad, who's good, who's more this that and the other.

Alls I know is, that little moment between Kim's parting words and Kyle flopping down those stairs was a complete fail on Kyle's part and maybe one minute before Kim was at fault and 2 minutes after Brandi was deplorable but in the moments in the hall it was Kyle that was exhibiting completely heinous behavior. They all acted out at different moments and it all extracted not so nice reactions.

I absolutely agree with you.

Kim behaves poorly, it's Kim and Brandi's fault. Lisar and Kyle behave poorly, that's somehow Kim and Brandi's fault as well.

I defend Kim and Brandi because they are human. Reading these forums you'd be led to believe they were pure evil, 100% bad seed, with absolutely no redeeming qualities. Brandi causes all the poor behavior, Brandi caused the poor harvest.

I find the constant internet diagnoses of mental illnesses as evidence of their "bad seed" nature particularly objectionable. The housewives are human. They are ALL flawed, some like Kim and Brandi more so than others.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[zoeysmom]

Just when I thought I couldn't fall any further down the rabbit hole... now it's about California's laws about what constitutes assault and battery? Contractual obligations and who is really in control of the comings and goings of an actual person/persons?

 

Put a fork in me I'm done.

Is this the part where one inserts a Lisa Rinna quote, "Halle fucking lujah!"?

[Yours Truly]

 

The time and place to have serious conversations with addicts is NOT when they are stoned out of their minds, and it's not for camera time on a reality TV show.  That's just so gross.

Hey Umbelina, how the hell are ya!?

 

Agreed!

 

And not in someone else's home with a bunch of on lookers. Kim may not be able to judge how public or not private her stumbling about is but KYLE sure as hell can determine a more appropriate time to get into HER feelings with Kim. Why is it okay that Kyle wants to have all these confrontations with Kim around other people? I get not ignoring it. Okay fine but why is it okay that Kyle has gone from "sweeping stuff under the rug" to blatantly challenging Kim no matter what the circumstances, the time or venue? How the hell is that okay I wonder. Kim's behavior isn't okay. Nobody says that.And nobody allows that anyway. But Kyle's behavior is okay? Kyle's allowed to her feelings and her behavior and her physical reactions because why?

[Avaleigh]

Oh ditto!  Laughing my ass off her, because you are SO RIGHT!  Applause!

 

You know what?  If that were my sister, I would have helped her leave, I'd want her away from the cameras too.  I would have said, "OK honey, say your goodbyes, and then we can go home together and talk." 

 

THAT is how you win over "fans" Kyle, be a fucking human being who cares more about your impaired sister than your own poor-me image, and the scenes of tears coming up (again, some more) for later BRAVO scenes.

 

The time and place to have serious conversations with addicts is NOT when they are stoned out of their minds, and it's not for camera time on a reality TV show.  That's just so gross.

It's being claimed that Brandi was doing the right thing by trying to get Kim to leave when all she was doing was ushering Kim from one on camera situation to another. 

 

Since they're on the show there was no avoiding the cameras at that point so Kyle thought it was better for Kim to eat and try to get slightly more normal. 

 

The idea that Kim desperately wanted to leave doesn't add up with what we were shown or with what actually happened. She chose to stay. There's also no indication that Kim wanted Kyle to share the car with her so there wasn't anything that Kyle could do about that. 

 

This was all brought up because people were wondering what Kim has done that has hurt people other than herself or her children. Kim watched Brandi manhandle her sister repeatedly and didn't care. That is what is continually being ignored by the people who are defending Kim and Brandi. 

 

Well this detail is being debated as well. There's an argument that Brandi never actually touched Kyle.

 

I'll go even further and say that even if some part of her arm or back or hip brushed Kyle so that Brandi could position herself as a shield for Kim that's different that deliberately reaching out and being aggressive. Assigning some stealth, martial arts menace to Brandi's handsfree (hands occupied actually) attempt to get Kim out of there doesn't change how out of line Kyle's actions were.

 

I find it to be completely wonderous how the act of trying to keep an already tense situation from escalating by trying to keep the aggravated parties separate has turned into such a horrible act. When in reality wouldn't most people gravitate towards this path but it's Brandi so whats normally considered a level headed move has now morphed into an aberration. That I don't get.

 

But yeah Brandi threw wine in Eileens face, Kim told Lisa Rinna to eat another piece of bread... All that applies and is relevant to just trying to call out how wrong Kyle behaved in that situation.

Kyle tried using her words with Brandi and Brandi responded by using her body. Brandi was the one to get physical first. One reason it isn't good to start a physical confrontation is that it has the potential to escalate. Brandi should never have made it a physical confrontation in the first place but that's what she chose to do. 

Brandi has a history of being aggressive and for starting trouble but we're supposed to believe this one time her motives were sincere and that she was protecting Kim? I'm not buying it.

 

Kim behaves poorly, it's Kim and Brandi's fault. Lisar and Kyle behave poorly, that's somehow Kim and Brandi's fault as well.

No one has ever said this. In fact, people repeatedly emphasize that LisaR was wrong for breaking the glass and that Kyle shouldn't have touched Brandi. 

 

It has actually been said in this thread that Kim and Brandi's behavior prior to Kyle grabbing Brandi's arm is irrelevant and I think that's ridiculous. If Brandi hadn't been physical first the entire physical altercation could have been avoided. Meanwhile we have Kyle not putting her hands on Brandi as Brandi is continuing to put her hands on Kyle. This is routinely ignored from the people who want to put it all on Kyle. 

[Yours Truly]

Well, I don't see it that way, right now we are talking about one horrendous scene, but there have been others.

 

Does Kyle do it every single time?  No.  However, that's not really the point.

 

I do think Kyle continues to use Kim though, even though Kim is not on the show.  It gets Kyle (formerly detested as a housewife) a ton of sympathy, so she keeps it up.  She even gets Bethenny and her Aunt in very staged scenes this season to come in and make sure she gets the sympathetic edit and a chance to talk about Kim.  With the other wives, that allows her to pretend to "not want to talk about it" and do her offended talking heads.  When they aren't gossiping about Yo or Brandi that is.  Sooner or later it comes back to Kim, and Kyle brings on the tears, aaannnnnnndddd, SCENE!

 

I just don't buy any of the bullpoop she's selling.  Do I think Kim's problems have been hard for Kyle?  Oh yes, I do.  She's gotten even though, she's wearing the "BEST SISTER!!!  MOMMY'S FAVORITE NOW!" crown, so just let it go.  She's a grown woman, she should be able to handle questions about her sister and gossip about her sister gracefully while cameras are in her face by now.  She's had years of experience on Bravo.  But that doesn't bring home the money, so she continues to play the game.

 

The problem is, on Kim's side, this is no game. If it was, well, hell, she's bleeding to death on the sidelines, do you really need to keep kicking balls through the empty goal to prove you've won? 

 

If Brandi really did want to get physical with Kyle that night, Kyle would have been on her ass with a black eye.  She didn't, and Kyle wasn't.

AWESOME!

 

The bolded especially. Where does all of this perverse pleasure come from..? It's so disturbing to know that the thirst for blood is alive and well in the Bravo Universe 

[sistermagpie]

Why is it okay that Kyle wants to have all these confrontations with Kim around other people?

 

 

Why wouldn't it be? I have no defense for Kyle or anybody doing anything physical, but all these women had just spent an entire night with Kim being obviously high as a kite and out of control. Her state at this point was part of the wallpaper. Kyle running after her at the point where Kim has suddenly done another about face and announced she was pissed off at Kyle doesn't seem an obvious moment for Kyle to realize this is where she needs to go into cover-up mode. She'd been interacting with her like one totally flawed person to another the whole night and this was just more of the same reacting and reacting rather than Kyle suddenly deciding to, like, confront Kim over some past misdeed or some emotion she was burying. I don't know if she even saw it as a confrontation or just another moment where you get Kim to calm down. After all, Kim's emotions from one moment to the next aren't necessarily about some actual issue. The only catalyst that I remember onscreen was Brandi (and even that might not have been solely responsible).

 

Basically, I agree that everybody was pretty much just going after what they wanted/needed in that moment. Kyle could have let Kim leave and she didn't--she preferred to have her there and be in "good sister relationship" place. Kim could have left but she, too, enjoyed the drama of being fought over etc. I agree with "should have let her leave" but I don't think that necessarily turns it into "keeping her on camera so everybody sees how high she is/how much you put up with." 

[kokapetl]

There was never a physical altercation. In California for there to be an assault/battery there must be an intentional attempt to physically injure another or a menacing or threatening act or statement that cause the other person to believe they are about to be attacked. Intentional conduct required. Grabbing someone's arm in an effort to a family member that is mentally incapacitated isn't really an act to physically injure or threaten another.

I don't recall Kyle threatening Brandi with physical violence. Brandi usually makes stupid statements about injuring someone so I imagine she did in this situation as well.

Kim and Brandi are also under contract so they really don't get to dictate their comings and goings and in fact stayed long after Rinna and Kyle left. Last I checked Brandi wasn't a producer who could decide who could and who could not talk to another cast member. Kim was inebriated and I think her sister was concerned, I know I would be concerned if my inebriated sister was leaving with a drunken Brandi.

I think the burning question that has never been answered is why was Kim all of a sudden so afraid to talk to Kyle? I believe it was because Brandi worked her up.

Doesn't the 14th amendment preclude enforced labor? Kim and Brandi can leave a shoot, even if it violates their contract, the other side can justly sue, but they can't be forced to perform labor? No ones life was at risk here.

Brandi was freely following Kim's wishes, and the producers don't own Kim, she is not a slave.

The imagined threat from Brandi is imagined.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[luleetuni]

The initial debate was actually about Kyle being wrong to put her hands on Brandi. All the rest of this comes out because in order to defend Kyle in that one moment there's this disjointed connection being made with the hijinx throughout the night by Kim and Brandi and Kyle being justified in putting her hands on Brandi. For me, I challenge that thought process. The one where because Kim's an addict and Brandi's "trash" that this automatically makes what Kyle did okay or at the very least justified. I can agree with it being understandable but justified or even provoked?

To only take the one moment into consideration, sure Kyle is wrong, but you can't pick and choose moments of right and wrong and ignore the rest of the context of the evening. That night was bad, plain and simple the only winner was Vinny in the garage, otherwise they all lost that night. They all signed up to have their lives documented and if Kim and Brandi made a decision to show up medicated/drunk and behave poorly, that is an issue that shouldn't be ignored. Was kyle not supposed to react to seeing her sister that way? Then when her sister does the quick flip to anger after talking to a very drunk Brandi, of course she wants to figure out what happened and protect her sister as much as she can from looking like a fool. Even if they had left together(Kim and kyle) the cameras were there. I saw Kyle as someone who thought she could protect Kim and to hell with the girl that was drunk and riling her up. Were her subsequent actions wrong? Sure. Was her intention good? Sure. Was it for camera time? Doesn't matter, it is all filmed. There was no winning for Kyle regardless of whatever path she chose. Ironically kyle did help her sister that night, it became more about kyle v Brandi than it did Kim's admitting to a relapse.

Kim made her sobriety a storyline, she chose to film her one on one from rehab years ago, and admitted to being an addict so I have never understood why Lisa Rinna calling her an addict was a big deal. Aren't addicts are still addicts when they are in recovery, they are just now recovering addicts? I remember years ago Dr drew saying you can't be in recovery if you deny you're an addict.

[Yours Truly]

It's being claimed that Brandi was doing the right thing by trying to get Kim to leave when all she was doing was ushering Kim from one on camera situation to another. 

 

Wait what other situation was she ushering her off too? The limo? She was keeping her away from Kyle cause Kyle is another situation in and of itself BESIDES the camera, but yeah even there being a camera in the limo is better than having an argument in front of the others plus at the end of the ride Kim would be home.

No matter how you slice it, it was a good idea and better than anything else I could think of.  Sure as hell better than what did transpire. Do we honestly think that Brandi's part is the reason why the sisters went at it. Even if Brandi didn't do anything and waited it out on the side lines do we honestly believe that Kyle and Kim would have had anything less than an embarrassing exchange? Honestly?

[Umbelina]

One other point. 

 

I honestly do not think, in any way, that Kyle should have been responsible for either Kim's behavior, or for getting her out of there.  Yes, it's what I would have done for my sister, pick a more appropriate time and place to try to help her with her issues, but mostly, just to help her avoid more public humiliation.

 

Kyle didn't have to do that though, and it wouldn't have made me dislike her.  It's like Akido fighting, let the opponent hurt themselves, because there is no need to be aggressive, just step aside and let the opponent's own rage or anger sink them.  That's the slightly aggressive, but understandable in it's way, choice of how to deal.  Or Kyle could have simply enjoyed her drink, and let Kim continue to make an idiot of herself.  Kim's behavior is NOT on Kyle, and Kyle doing nothing at all would have been completely fine and understandable to me.  In that "I've had enough" way, in that healthy "Kim's behavior is Kim's" way. 

 

Where I have a problem has been well stated above by many other posters.  Trying to restrain Kim when Kim was leaving, grabbing at Brandi, who in this case, IMO, did exactly the right thing (for her and for Kim) which is stop Kyle from keeping Kim on camera when she was, beyond doubt, incapable of the fight or "scene" Kyle wanted. 

 

Kyle's "tears" later were so predictable, as predictable as her many, many, scenes about Kim this year.  Kim's Kyle's bread and butter as far as anything Bravo considers interesting about Kyle.  Kyle is not some innocent, naive new "housewife" here, she's experienced, hell her whole life has been centered about "show biz" even if, before this show, all the attention was on her other sisters.  She knows the drill.

 

She's ALLOWING this, and she could stop it.  She doesn't, because she WANTS the sympathy, she WANTS the adoration, certainly much more than she wants the hate she got the first few seasons.  She's CHOOSING to continue to use Kim's problems for her story line on Bravo.

 

I find that appalling.  Bravo can't air it if Kyle doesn't give it.  It's her choice. 

 

Kim being "BAD" doesn't make Kyle "GOOD."  They are both trainwrecks and dis-likable people.  One has an illness, and one does not, that's really the main difference I see in their personalities.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Umbelina

[Avaleigh]

I absolutely agree with you.

Kim behaves poorly, it's Kim and Brandi's fault. Lisar and Kyle behave poorly, that's somehow Kim and Brandi's fault as well.

I defend Kim and Brandi because they are human. Reading these forums you'd be led to believe they were pure evil, 100% bad seed, with absolutely no redeeming qualities. Brandi causes all the poor behavior, Brandi caused the poor harvest.

I find the constant internet diagnoses of mental illnesses as evidence of their "bad seed" nature particularly objectionable. The housewives are human. They are ALL flawed, some like Kim and Brandi more so than others.

I disagree with this too. When their behavior is being criticized most of the time it's criticism from what we're seeing on the show. A small fraction of their lives. They've both been criticized for off camera shenanigans as well but for the most part we're discussing what we see on the show. Is it true that we tend to see Kim and Brandi at their worst on the show? Absolutely. Editing can only be blamed so much. I've long agreed with Bethenny's comment that the editors work with what they're given. 

 

It isn't a big mystery why fan opinion of both of these women is low. No one is accusing them of not being human beings although there are times when I've questioned the level of humanity from both women because they've both been so atrocious over the years. The fact that some people think that Kim is mentally ill speaks to how horrible her behavior is as a whole. Brandi's lack of sensitivity is incredible even by housewives standards. 

 

I've never once called Brandi a slut because I've never felt that was fair or relevant. There are plenty of other things to criticize that woman about rather than going for her sexuality. I'm not even going to re-open the can of worms with this pathetic woman when it comes to her comments about rape and sexual abuse. Again, it isn't a big mystery why people are disgusted by the behavior of Brandi and Kim. I don't think that the flack they get is disproportionate to what we've all seen and read. 

 

Is it seriously a mystery as to why Brandi and Kim were the most negative aspects from last season? There's hardly anything positive to draw from with these two and that's how it's been season after season. I don't think anyone is commenting on these women as though they aren't human beings.

 

Do we honestly think that Brandi's part is the reason why the sisters went at it. Even if Brandi didn't do anything and waited it out on the side lines do we honestly believe that Kyle and Kim would have had anything less than an embarrassing exchange? Honestly?

 

 

Kim was hellbent on treating everyone like shit that night save Brandi so I agree that the conversation would have been unlikely to go well given Kim's state of mind. What I disagree with is the idea that Brandi was protecting Kim and being all noble when she was just going to be high in front of a different camera. Brandi's actions didn't help the situation they only escalated it and made it a hundred times worse.

 

Brandi added fuel to the fire in every possible way that she could. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Avaleigh

[zoeysmom]

Doesn't the 14th amendment preclude enforced labor? Kim and Brandi can leave a shoot, even if it violates their contract, the other side can justly sue, but they can't be forced to perform labor? No ones life was at risk here.

Brandi was following Kim's wishes, and the producers don't own Kim, she is not a slave.

The imagined threat from Brandi is imagined.

I was under the impression that everyone knew the women were working and being paid very well via a contract with Evolution Media.  I am not getting the connect to slavery and quite frankly what a fucking insult to people whose ancestors worked as slaves prior to the 14th Amendment to compare these women's working conditions to that of slaves.  The contract does outline when and where the women are suppose to avail themselves to filming.  It is really no different than a scripted show contract except they are not given lines.   It does differ from a documentary.  The shows could never make it to final edit if the principals just walked off whenever they felt like it or told the producers what they could and could not film.   

[Yours Truly]

 but I don't think that necessarily turns it into "keeping her on camera so everybody sees how high she is/how much you put up with." 

I don't think this was the only time Kyle has done this. Also I don't necessarily think it's just for the cameras. I like to highlight that aspect because I don't think it's completely lost on her and I do think that this particular incident was more organic and not so much JUST for the cameras but I maintain my point about Kyle being less inclined to save it for another time like a lot of people usually do when they are at a function or party or dinner table. It seems like that switch is completely gone and her actions are hugely a result of her wanting it to be know by maybe just those around her and not necessarily the cameras. I think she does reach a boiling point where she knows doing it publicly gives the knife that much more of a twist if you get my drift. I sense malice during some of their altercations and I think that's what Brandi picked up on when she was accussing Kyle of wanting Kim to fail. I'll go as far as saying that I don't think Kyle officially scripts it out but I do think that she doesn't beat herself up too much when something like this happens. Her party after poker night where she gets into it with Brandi. That was completely instigated by Kyle. A few seasons back when Kyle had to pretty much rip Kim a new one at the dinner table with all the guests held hostage with the look of deer in headlights. Mauricio actually joined in the action on that one. There were a couple more that didn't sit well with me. No matter how upset I am I am not about to get into the nitty gritty at some public event for all eyes and ears. Especially about something as sensitive as that. There is absolutely no reason for that.

 

Keeping secrets is different from maintaining privacy and I think Kyle has realized that whenever she decides let loose and rip the mask off of Kim whenever she damn well gets the urge she can now excuse it by constantly reiterating how she's "not keeping secrets anymore". That's her out. But no bitch choosing to loose your shit with Kim publicly cause your fed up isn't the same as going down that "healing path of not keeping secrets" anymore. It's the underhandedness of it all that puts Kyle on my list. Not all of Kim's behavior is with the intent to cause pain or harm. I can't say the same about a lot of Kyle's actions when it comes to Kim.  Not saying she's the devil but she surely ain't some innocent in all of this and I do believe that she makes Kim pay in certain ways and has all along she's just upped the ante with this show. That's for sure.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[sistermagpie]

It seems like that switch is completely gone and her actions are hugely a result of her wanting it to be know by maybe just those around her and not necessarily the cameras.

 

 

I can definitely agree with that--and that actually seems pretty logical to me. I just meant I think it was a decision that Kyle would make in that moment rather than really thinking about how she was finally going to get this on camera etc. I think it's probably more true to her personality that she just would be totally fine performing this in front of other people who already know the score. Really, I think Kyle and Brandi were on similar tracks in that scene. Both of them were fighting over who was the person who took care of Kim, who was trusted by Kim, who should be the one speaking with Kim to get Kim into a better place. This isn't even really something anybody hid. Even that night, iirc, the three of them were openly talking about how Kim was choosing Brandi over Kyle. 

 

And I think Kyle's often conflicted in wanting to have it both ways--she wants to be more removed from Kim as she's probably been taught is better for everyone but in doing that she has to give up being "her sister" who's like her mom or something. I think often when you walk away from a relationship like that, or even step back, you don't think about how somebody else is very likely going to step into that role--and that Kim is of course going to embrace that too. She knows that Kyle cares what Kim thinks about her--if she didn't there'd be no reason to tell her she was mad at her etc.

[kokapetl]

I was under the impression that everyone knew the women were working and being paid very well via a contract with Evolution Media. I am not getting the connect to slavery and quite frankly what a fucking insult to people whose ancestors worked as slaves prior to the 14th Amendment to compare these women's working conditions to that of slaves. The contract does outline when and where the women are suppose to avail themselves to filming. It is really no different than a scripted show contract except they are not given lines. It does differ from a documentary. The shows could never make it to final edit if the principals just walked off whenever they felt like it or told the producers what they could and could not film.

I am not a lawyer, you are. I probably don't have the right amendment, but is there not statute and case law precedent that essentially precludes forced labor? Isn't this how Ke$ha cannot be forced to work?

[Avaleigh]

One other point. 

 

I honestly do not think, in any way, that Kyle should have been responsible for either Kim's behavior, or for getting her out of there.  Yes, it's what I would have done for my sister, pick a more appropriate time and place to try to help her with her issues, but mostly, just to help her avoid more public humiliation.

 

Kyle didn't have to do that though, and it wouldn't have made me dislike her.  It's like Akido fighting, let the opponent hurt themselves, because there is no need to be aggressive, just step aside and let the opponent's own rage or anger sink them.  That's the slightly aggressive, but understandable in it's way, choice of how to deal.  Or Kyle could have simply enjoyed her drink, and let Kim continue to make an idiot of herself.  Kim's behavior is NOT on Kyle, and Kyle doing nothing at all would have been completely fine and understandable to me.  In that "I've had enough" way, in that healthy "Kim's behavior is Kim's" way. 

 

Where I have a problem has been well stated above by many other posters.  Trying to restrain Kim when Kim was leaving, grabbing at Brandi, who in this case, IMO, did exactly the right thing (for her and for Kim) which is stop Kyle from keeping Kim on camera when she was, beyond doubt, incapable of the fight or "scene" Kyle wanted. 

We've already established that Brandi did nothing of the kind. Brandi was not trying to keep Kim from being on camera. That never happened. Brandi was also not doing the right thing by using her body to force Kyle into doing her what she wanted to do. 

[zoeysmom]

I am not a lawyer, you are. I probably don't have the right amendment, but is there not statute and case law precedent that essentially precludes forced labor? Isn't this how Ke$ha cannot be forced to work?

Force labor would be making somebody do something illegal, like human trafficking or working without compensation.  Of course there are laws against forced labor in US.   The Fourteenth  Amendment essentially freed the slaves.  Take a person working at McDonalds-if the supervisor tells them I want you making fries during their shift and they want to work the grill it isn't "forced labor".  They are being paid and it is within their skillset for which they were hired.  

 

I am trying to see a correlation between Ke$ha and this situation and there is nothing I can find to connect the two.  Ke$ha has asked for an injunction that would allow her to record for label other than Sony. Ke$ha is claiming she was drugged and raped by her producer, (horrible thing to have happen) who signed her with an imprint of Sony's.  Sony has offered to allow her to record with another producer while still recording under the Sony label she is under contract to.  Sony also maintains http://fortune.com/2016/02/22/kesha-dr-luke-lawsuit-taylor-swift/     they have spent $11 million promoting her music.  Again I see no correlation as Sony is not trying to force her to work they are just not letting her out from her contract.  Big difference. 

[Sincerely Yours]

We've already established that Brandi did nothing of the kind. Brandi was not trying to keep Kim from being on camera. That never happened. Brandi was also not doing the right thing by using her body to force Kyle into doing her what she wanted to do. 

Wait it has? It seems that really isn't the case at least not for everyone.  I for one still believe she had Kim's best interest at heart and some still maintain that they believe this was a big part of Brandi's intent as well. Guess it isn't as unanimous as all that.

[zoeysmom]

I can definitely agree with that--and that actually seems pretty logical to me. I just meant I think it was a decision that Kyle would make in that moment rather than really thinking about how she was finally going to get this on camera etc. I think it's probably more true to her personality that she just would be totally fine performing this in front of other people who already know the score. Really, I think Kyle and Brandi were on similar tracks in that scene. Both of them were fighting over who was the person who took care of Kim, who was trusted by Kim, who should be the one speaking with Kim to get Kim into a better place. This isn't even really something anybody hid. Even that night, iirc, the three of them were openly talking about how Kim was choosing Brandi over Kyle. 

 

And I think Kyle's often conflicted in wanting to have it both ways--she wants to be more removed from Kim as she's probably been taught is better for everyone but in doing that she has to give up being "her sister" who's like her mom or something. I think often when you walk away from a relationship like that, or even step back, you don't think about how somebody else is very likely going to step into that role--and that Kim is of course going to embrace that too. She knows that Kyle cares what Kim thinks about her--if she didn't there'd be no reason to tell her she was mad at her etc.

Before Poker Night, both Rinna and Eileen had a pretty negative impression of Brandi.  Kyle not so much so.  Once Brandi began the night by insulting Eileen and Vince's home and then she and Kim graduated to insulting the rest of the ladies, it would seem in order to separate Kim from the negative, she would want to separate her from drunk Brandi.   I kind of saw it as trying to throw Kim a lifeline.  Had she hung back with Kyle and Brandi moved on, she might have been able to explain the medication error and all be forgiven.  Unfortunately, it was once the onset of Brandi getting between the sisters.

[SCS]

Just when I thought I couldn't fall any further down the rabbit hole... now it's about California's laws about what constitutes assault and battery? Contractual obligations and who is really in control of the comings and goings of an actual person/persons?

 

Put a fork in me I'm done.

 

Kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it? 

[kokapetl]

Force labor would be making somebody do something illegal, like human trafficking or working without compensation. Of course there are laws against forced labor in US. The Fourteenth Amendment essentially freed the slaves. Take a person working at McDonalds-if the supervisor tells them I want you making fries during their shift and they want to work the grill it isn't "forced labor". They are being paid and it is within their skillset for which they were hired.

I am trying to see a correlation between Ke$ha and this situation and there is nothing I can find to connect the two. Ke$ha has asked for an injunction that would allow her to record for label other than Sony. Ke$ha is claiming she was drugged and raped by her producer, (horrible thing to have happen) who signed her with an imprint of Sony's. Sony has offered to allow her to record with another producer while still recording under the Sony label she is under contract to. Sony also maintains http://fortune.com/2016/02/22/kesha-dr-luke-lawsuit-taylor-swift/ they have spent $11 million promoting her music. Again I see no correlation as Sony is not trying to force her to work they are just not letting her out from her contract. Big difference.

My understanding is that the both the McDonald's employee and Kesha can't be forced to perform any labor. They can quit, and be on the hook financially for not delivering their end of the bargain, but preventing them from leaving the workplace would be considered imprisonment. They court wouldn't force them to go back to work, it'd force them to pay money to the other party. Same with Kim.

[SCS]

Kim and Brandi can leave a shoot, even if it violates their contract, the other side can justly sue, but they can't be forced to perform labor? No ones life was at risk here.

Brandi was freely following Kim's wishes, and the producers don't own Kim, she is not a slave.

The imagined threat from Brandi is imagined.

 

 

Correct. These women leave events early all the time -- for fundraisers, for dinner engagements, for non-Bravo parties, Didn't Lisa V announce she had to leave Erika's early to attend a benefit in the most recent episode? Kim and Brandi hardly violated some Bravo rule (other than the fact that they're, you know, Kim and Brandi).

We've already established that Brandi did nothing of the kind. Brandi was not trying to keep Kim from being on camera. That never happened. Brandi was also not doing the right thing by using her body to force Kyle into doing her what she wanted to do. 

 

 

This was established? Wouldn't it be opinion?

[Avaleigh]

I am not a lawyer, you are. I probably don't have the right amendment, but is there not statute and case law precedent that essentially precludes forced labor? Isn't this how Ke$ha cannot be forced to work?

It seems like a ridiculous stretch to me that getting Kim to eat a piece of pizza is being turned into the idea that Kim is being forced to work almost as though she were a slave. We know now that Kim was actually fine with staying at Eileen's and could have gone home long after if she'd wanted to so why is it continually being claimed that Kim was being prevented from doing what she wanted to do that evening?

 

If there's one thing I've learned about Kim Richards from watching this show it's that nobody forces her to do anything that she doesn't want to do even when it's in her own benefit. 

 

Kim being "BAD" doesn't make Kyle "GOOD."  They are both trainwrecks and dis-likable people.  One has an illness, and one does not, that's really the main difference I see in their personalities

 

 

I don't think that Kim being bad makes Kyle good. I see the differences in their personalities for myself and there are issues with Kim that have nothing to do with her illness. I've seen Kyle be a better sister to Kim than Kim is to her. I've seen Kyle be a better friend to the other women. I've seen Kyle be a better aunt than Kim. I've seen that Kyle has a better work ethic than Kim. I've seen that Kyle gets along with people better than Kim does. I've repeatedly seen Kim be mean to people with no provocation whatsoever. I've seen Kim incapable of making apolgies or admitting to wrong doing. I csee Kim lie on a regular basis. All of these things add up and are the reasons that I don't think that Kim and Kyle are even close to being the same. I can point to examples of Kyle being someone who at least attempts to be a good person. I don't see these examples with Kim. Kyle doesn't even have to be in the conversation for it to be obvious that Kim hasn't shown herself to be a nice person over the course of the show. 

 

Wait it has? It seems that really isn't the case at least not for everyone.  I for one still believe she had Kim's best interest at heart and some still maintain that they believe this was a big part of Brandi's intent as well. Guess it isn't as unanimous as all that.

Yes, it has been established that there were cameras in the car that Brandi wanted to bring Kim to. Brandi was not trying to get Kim away from the cameras as people have repeatedly claimed. The cameras aren't lying. So in that sense, yes, it has been established and can't be argued that Brandi was taking Kim from one on camera situation to another. We saw the evidence on the show. It is also a fact that Kim chose to stay at Eileen's so the idea that she desperately wanted to go home and was being prevented by Kyle from doing that doesn't add up with what happened in reality. 

 

Kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it? 

What truly boggles the mind is that some feel the need to clarify that Kim isn't a slave as though anyone here were even remotely under that impression. 

[kokapetl]

I'm not saying Kim was a slave, I'm saying that Kim had the right to go home, and Kyle didn't have any valid reason for attempting to physically prevent that. Because Kim is a free woman, not Kyle or a producer's slave. Kim's legal right to do so is linked to the constitutional amendments that prohibited slavery.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[Avaleigh]

This was established? Wouldn't it be opinion?

Again, I was addressing the assertion that Brandi was trying to get Kim away from the cameras. That never happened and I don't understand how this is an opinion thing when we can see on the show that there were indeed cameras in the car and we saw footage of Brandi and Kim on camera after Brandi supposedly wanted to get Kim away from the cameras. 

 

There's also arguing over the idea that Kim was somehow being prevented from leaving when the evidence shows that Kim chose to stay.

I'm not saying Kim was a slave, I'm saying that Kim had the right to go home, and Kyle didn't have any valid reason for attempting to physically prevent that. Because Kim is a free woman, not Kyle or a producer's slave.

I understand that you weren't calling Kim a slave. My comment came from why you thought that anyone here needed clarification on that point. I don't think that anyone once suggested that Kim is a slave or even implied it. If they did, I missed that.  

[SCS]

What truly boggles the mind is that some feel the need to clarify that Kim isn't a slave as though anyone here were even remotely under that impression.

In my opinion, no one posting on this site believes Kim is a slave.

eta: O. You clarified above.

Edited March 14, 2016 by steelcitysister

[Avaleigh]

In my opinion, no one posting on this site believes Kim is a slave.

I agree. 

[Yours Truly]

 

 

 

Yes, it has been established that there were cameras in the car that Brandi wanted to bring Kim to. Brandi was not trying to get Kim away from the cameras as people have repeatedly claimed. The cameras aren't lying. So in that sense, yes, it has been established and can't be argued that Brandi was taking Kim from one on camera situation to another. We saw the evidence on the show. It is also a fact that Kim chose to stay at Eileen's so the idea that she desperately wanted to go home and was being prevented by Kyle from doing that doesn't add up with what happened in reality. 

 

 

I'll adjust my observation to Brandi taking Kim away from the cameras to pulling her away from having a fight or argument on camera. I also think that's what is meant when it's mentioned that Brandi was trying to get Kim away from the cameras. As in keeping her off camera and away from additional instigating circumstances so that a fight or anything more embarrassing isn't caught on camera. Basically she's trying to minimize the damage. Plain and simple. Her in the limo with Brandi not antagonizing her on camera vs. Kyle's aggravation with Kim around the other ladies and the cameras. One situation is way more volatile than the other hence the good move it was on Brandi's part to try and just get Kim home and not prolong a very tricky situation.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

I'm not saying Kim was a slave, I'm saying that Kim had the right to go home, and Kyle didn't have any valid reason for attempting to physically prevent that. Because Kim is a free woman, not Kyle or a producer's slave.

  Kim is part of an ensemble cast working at the direction of the producers.  For her paycheck and that particular night she was scheduled to work for certain number of hours, as commented on by the others, they ended up cutting the filming short and didn't even get through the  dinner portion of the evening.  Kim was under contract to be there.  Saying she has the right to go home-well I didn't see her call a cab.  So apparently she didn't feel too restrained. She and Brandi went back inside after Kyle and Rinna left.  

Edited March 14, 2016 by zoeysmom

[kokapetl]

Kim is part of an ensemble cast working at the direction of the producers. For her paycheck and that particular night she was scheduled to work for certain number of hours, as commented on by the others, they ended up cutting the filming short and didn't even get through the dinner portion of the evening. Kim was under contract to be there. Saying she has the right to go home-well I didn't see her call a cab. So apparently she didn't feel too restrained. Shed Brandi went back inside after Kyle and Rinna left.

It's not that Kim has the right to not comply with the terms of her contract, it's that she couldn't be forced to perform labor against her will. If Kim wanted to leave the shoot, no one could stop her.

[WireWrap]

I totally wouldn't have raked Kyle across the coals had she let Kim leave with Brandi. Why? Now if she would have let Kim leave with Brandi then start crying and talking shit after she left then yeah but if she would let it go then said to the ladies I guess I'll just give her a call tomorrow and get to the bottom of all that then ummmmm where is that something to avoid? As a Kim defender and  Kyle "not liker" I know I can say that nope. Not damned if she does, or doesn't. Had she left it alone I would have given her a loud applause!

So, in other words, Kyle has to not respond to the fact that her sister is as high as a kite, is pissed off at her big time for nothing, insulted your friends in their own home and left with an out of control drunk but Kyle must remain stoic and not show emotion for some to not bash her. Okay.........but then Kyle would loose her HW job if she shut down her emotions.

 

Well this detail is being debated as well. There's an argument that Brandi never actually touched Kyle.

 

I'll go even further and say that even if some part of her arm or back or hip brushed Kyle so that Brandi could position herself as a shield for Kim that's different that deliberately reaching out and being aggressive. Assigning some stealth, martial arts menace to Brandi's handsfree (hands occupied actually) attempt to get Kim out of there doesn't change how out of line Kyle's actions were.

 

I find it to be completely wonderous how the act of trying to keep an already tense situation from escalating by trying to keep the aggravated parties separate has turned into such a horrible act. When in reality wouldn't most people gravitate towards this path but it's Brandi so whats normally considered a level headed move has now morphed into an aberration. That I don't get.

 

But yeah Brandi threw wine in Eileens face, Kim told Lisa Rinna to eat another piece of bread... All that applies and is relevant to just trying to call out how wrong Kyle behaved in that situation.

Brandi's body and arm blocking was not mere accidental contact, it was an aggressive, physically aggressive, attempt to stop Kyle from talking to her sister, plain and simple.

 

Oh ditto!  Laughing my ass off her, because you are SO RIGHT!  Applause!

 

Kyle needed her camera moment, she didn't give one damn about Kim in that moment, because if she did?  As a supposedly caring sister, she would have let Kim leave, or left WITH her.  Instead she got physical with Brandi, who had both hands full of food.

Exactly.  Brandi MUST be wrong though, she has to be, because Kyle is a super duper wonderful martyr and Brandi isn't our kind dear.

 

 

Yes.

Thanks.  That is exactly what went down.

 

Ditto.  Bullshit.

 

Kyle got off easy, Brandi had bruises.

I would have stood up and applauded Kyle, if she hadn't done that, if she had simply let Kim leave, and as a lady, said to the others, "Kim isn't well, it's better that she left."  Of course, then Kyle would have had her hysterics and fake tears and made it all about HER HER HER, and demanded everyone console and admire her for the rest of the night.  As she does...

You know what?  If that were my sister, I would have helped her leave, I'd want her away from the cameras too.  I would have said, "OK honey, say your goodbyes, and then we can go home together and talk." 

 

THAT is how you win over "fans" Kyle, be a fucking human being who cares more about your impaired sister than your own poor-me image, and the scenes of tears coming up (again, some more) for later BRAVO scenes.

 

The time and place to have serious conversations with addicts is NOT when they are stoned out of their minds, and it's not for camera time on a reality TV show.  That's just so gross.

Right, it is wiser to send your high sister home with a person drunk off their ass, not.

 

Brandi was the one that initiated physical contact, not Kyle.

 

Brandi had a small scratch from Kyle's bracelet, she did not have any bruises. Eileen even made fun of her scratch that night because one would have thought someone tried to amputate her arm the way she was acting. "Put some Neosporin on it" LOL.

 

Oh, and Brandi did not have "food" in both hands as she was body checking Kyle, she had 1 piece of pizza in 1 hand and a glass of wine in the other! I did notice that although she dropped the pizza, she didn't spill a drop of wine. LOL

[zoeysmom]

It's not that Kim has the right to not comply with the terms of her contract, it's that she couldn't be forced to perform labor against her will. If Kim wanted to leave the shoot, no one could stop her.

That is not what transpired.  Kyle wanted to talk to her sister.  Brandi was the one directing who Kim could talk to.  Kim wanted to talk to her sister after she got outside.   What happened, happened.  It is not about the 14th Amendment or labor law.  If Kim wanted to leave,  production does not have to give her a ride, legally, the Van Pattens could have put her on the side of highway and said wait for a cab.  But none of that happened. This business about rights.  Of course you can tell your employer to shove it and do what you want .  You can also be sued for doing the same if you are working under a contract.   Kim also doesn't have the right to order filming to be shut down or tell Kyle or Rinna or anyone else not to speak to her.   

 

To me, and is started inside when Brandi made the cut motion when Kyle went to the bathroom.  They are not Brandi's scenes to block and Kim's to decide whether or not she wants to be filmed.  She doesn't have to act-she could sit there and five cameras could film her.  She signed those rights away.  Brandi and the rest as part of their contracts agree not to impede filming.  In other words if things aren't going their way  they can't jump up and yell cut or make other references filming.  That would make them in breach of their contracts.

[MatildaMoody]

 

Why is it okay that Kyle wants to have all these confrontations with Kim around other people?

 

I don't think Kyle was going for a confrontation though. Her last interaction with Kim had been positive - in her blog she even said that they hugged each other before they left the bathroom. To go from that to the next second having Kim come in angry at her and then storming a way (she wasn't leaving until Brandi started herding out the door) was just plain confusing. I think Kyle just wanted to ask Kim what had happened in the 2 minutes since they last talked that upset her. Remember, Kyle asked Kim if she wanted to go somewhere and talk in private, but Brandi was not having  it at all. I think the situation could have easily been diffused if Brandi had simply let Kyle talk to her sister in the bathroom like had been doing literally minutes before Kim's outburst. 

[Avaleigh]

I don't think Kyle was going for a confrontation though. Her last interaction with Kim had been positive - in her blog she even said that they hugged each other before they left the bathroom. To go from that to the next second having Kim come in angry at her and then storming a way (she wasn't leaving until Brandi started herding out the door) was just plain confusing. I think Kyle just wanted to ask Kim what had happened in the 2 minutes since they last talked that upset her. Remember, Kyle asked Kim if she wanted to go somewhere and talk in private, but Brandi was not having  it at all. I think the situation could have easily been diffused if Brandi had simply let Kyle talk to her sister in the bathroom like had been doing literally minutes before Kim's outburst. 

For all the talk that Kyle is desperate to use her sister to create a scene I saw more of that behavior from Kim than the other way around. Kim was the one who got hostile with Kyle for no reason and created a scene with Kyle in the first place. Kim sought Kyle out in the bathroom but in her twisted mind it was Kyle going after her even though we all saw that this wasn't what happened. She deliberately misrepresented what happened in the bathroom so that she could gain sympathy from anyone who is willing to believe her lies. 

 

Kyle is expected to behave like a robot with no emotions in order to cover for another of her sister's screw ups. It's presented as though Kim had no role to play in why that ugly scene ended up taking place. Kim seemed more than happy to have the focus and attention be on her. 

[kokapetl]

That is not what transpired. Kyle wanted to talk to her sister. Brandi was the one directing who Kim could talk to. Kim wanted to talk to her sister after she got outside. What happened, happened. It is not about the 14th Amendment or labor law. If Kim wanted to leave, production does not have to give her a ride, legally, the Van Pattens could have put her on the side of highway and said wait for a cab. But none of that happened. This business about rights. Of course you can tell your employer to shove it and do what you want . You can also be sued for doing the same if you are working under a contract. Kim also doesn't have the right to order filming to be shut down or tell Kyle or Rinna or anyone else not to speak to her.

To me, and is started inside when Brandi made the cut motion when Kyle went to the bathroom. They are not Brandi's scenes to block and Kim's to decide whether or not she wants to be filmed. She doesn't have to act-she could sit there and five cameras could film her. She signed those rights away. Brandi and the rest as part of their contracts agree not to impede filming. In other words if things aren't going their way they can't jump up and yell cut or make other references filming. That would make them in breach of their contracts.

You're right, no one had to accommodate Kim's wish to leave by doing anything other than let her leave the property. Kyle wasn't doing that, she was trying to block Kim's exit, Brandi was trying to facilitate Kim's wish to leave by keeping Kyle behind Kim. Brandi made no attempt to stop Kyle from talking to Kim, she just wanted to facilitate Kim's egress by separating them, by like 4 feet. Kim could hear Kyle. Brandi didn't lock Kyle in a closet or anything. As far as I can tell, the only attempt at "imprisonment" was by Kyle.

Kim and Brandi did get the sack, and I do think they deserved it. They probably breached their contracts, I doubt they were particularly fair.

[Yours Truly]

Wait a women can't decide that they don't want someone to talk to them. This just gets better and better.

 

it seems like when it serves XYZ's purpose her being "an inebriated incapable person"  justifies whatever bad decisions made by others regarding her or supposedly in her best interest.  And on the flip side her "inebriated, high state" is no excuse for this that and the other. Also her "inebriated, incapable state" can also be sited when she's being attacked or her wishes are dismissed I mean who owes an addict the right to their own selfish wants like not wanting Kyle to talk to her. I mean basically no matter what the angle usually the fact that Kim is "high, inebriated, an addict, is incapable of making a good decision" will forever trump what's really happening in any situation. No matter what. And this is why I defend Kim so hard because it never seems like anything is ever in her favor. Anything that defends is painted as misplace sympathy and undeserving. Anything that points out her side is undermined by how much damage others have suffered at her hands so whatever Kim's grievances pales in comparison. It's just an endless and merciless gauntlet of dismissiveness that if I were Kim Richards I would probably suck down a hundred bottles of pills by now.

 

People who don't subscribe to that particular method of dealing with an addict aren't all enablers. Maybe we can find a new name like how about relief givers you know the one's that try their best to make an addict still feel like a person? A human being, with rights and all that. Kim making bad decisions and all that doesn't mean that she's supposed to wake up every day stripped of basic human rights. Sometimes I feel as if we talk about her like she is actually supposed to be denied that 24/7 7 days a week. Yeah that will definitely put her on the road to recovery.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Avaleigh]

You're right, no one had to accommodate Kim's wish to leave by doing anything other than let her leave the property. Kyle wasn't doing that, she was trying to block Kim's exit, Brandi was trying to facilitate Kim's wish to leave by keeping Kyle behind Kim. Brandi made no attempt to stop Kyle from talking to Kim, she just wanted to facilitate Kim's egress by separating them, by like 4 feet. Kim could hear Kyle. Brandi didn't lock Kyle in a closet or anything. As far as I can tell, the only attempt at "imprisonment" was by Kyle.

Kim and Brandi did get the sack, and I do think they deserved it. They probably breached their contracts, I doubt they were particularly fair.

When did Kyle try to physically block Kim from leaving? I recall Kyle suggesting to Kim a couple of times that she eat a piece of pizza before she leave. This translates into Kyle blocking Kim's exit? To me she was acting like a person who was totally understanding that Kim wanted to go. She kept indicating that she wanted her to go after quickly eating something. Her big crime here was trying to get Kim to stay and eat. Those are hardly the actions of a bad sister. The cameras were unavoidable and Kim ultimately didn't want to leave at that point anyway because se ended up staying.  

 

What's interesting about this discussion is that it started because someone was questioning what Kim has done to people other than herself or her children. Now this example is being turned around and used to claim that Kyle is the bad sister between the two of them and that Brandi was somehow, miraculously the only one in the situation who was trying to do the so-called right thing. 

[zoeysmom]

You're right, no one had to accommodate Kim's wish to leave by doing anything other than let her leave the property. Kyle wasn't doing that, she was trying to block Kim's exit, Brandi was trying to facilitate Kim's wish to leave by keeping Kyle behind Kim. Brandi made no attempt to stop Kyle from talking to Kim, she just wanted to facilitate Kim's egress by separating them, by like 4 feet. Kim could hear Kyle. Brandi didn't lock Kyle in a closet or anything. As far as I can tell, the only attempt at "imprisonment" was by Kyle.

Kim and Brandi did get the sack, and I do think they deserved it. They probably breached their contracts, I doubt they were particularly fair.

Kyle could not have been trying to block Kim's exit as she was behind Kim and the door.  There was no imprisonment Brandi decided to be some sort of human barricade and it was unnecessary.  Brandi was extremely drunk, all you have to do is watch the film from the ride home.  Brandi decided she didn't want Kim exposed to further filming.  It was interesting once outside Brandi went after Kyle by the garage doors-gone was her goal of protesting Kim.  She also grabbed Kyle again. 

 

Kim got canned because she kept getting arrested and was under the influence.  Brandi got canned because the other woman no longer could fake filming with her.  She decided to go down big at the Reunion and she did.  I do think at times Brandi does not think things through.  She engineered career suicide by her behavior both with RHOBH and her book agent firing her.  Brandi wanted to be the star and the only plan for doing so was to act like an ass and alienate the others.  She forgot it was an ensemble show.

[zoeysmom]

Wait a women can't decide that they don't want someone to talk to them. This just gets better and better.

 

it seems like when it serves XYZ's purpose her being "an inebriated incapable person"  justifies whatever bad decisions made by others regarding her or supposedly in her best interest.  And on the flip side her "inebriated, high state" is no excuse for this that and the other. Also her "inebriated, incapable state" can also be sited when she's being attacked or her wishes are dismissed I mean who owes an addict the right to their own selfish wants like not wanting Kyle to talk to her. I mean basically no matter what the angle usually the fact that Kim is "high, inebriated, an addict, is incapable of making a good decision" will forever trump what's really happening in any situation. No matter what. And this is why I defend Kim so hard because it never seems like anything is ever in her favor. Anything that defends is painted as misplace sympathy and undeserving. Anything that points out her side is undermined by how much damage others have suffered at her hands so whatever Kim's grievances pales in comparison. It's just an endless and merciless gauntlet of dismissiveness that if I were Kim Richards I would probably suck down a hundred bottles of pills by now.

 

People who don't subscribe to that particular method of dealing with an addict aren't all enablers. Maybe we can find a new name like how about relief givers you know the one's that try their best to make an addict still feel like a person? A human being, with rights and all that. Kim making bad decisions and all that doesn't mean that she's supposed to wake up every day stripped of basic human rights. Sometimes I feel as if we talk about her like she is actually supposed to be denied that 24/7 7 days a week. Yeah that will definitely put her on the road to recovery.

If you and Kim don't feel like she is treated by a person that is on you two.  You can be an addict and be correct about perceiving what is going on around you, it just is often times you have to fight a little harder to get people to believe you. (See Faye Resnick comments about her memories of Nicole and how they were tainted because she used cocaine.) You can also be sober and have really skewed and distorted views of reality.  (See Yolanda Foster.)

 

What you can't do, if you are an addict or even if you are not, is rearrange the facts when they are recorded.  If you make bad choices like getting arrested for unlawful behavior perhaps she needs to rethink her choices.  Kim has her human rights in tact.  These claims about rights all seem so very dramatic.  No one is questioning Kim's day to day decisions, her decisions come into play when she puts herself in the news, or appears on a TV show. 

[WireWrap]

I'm not saying Kim was a slave, I'm saying that Kim had the right to go home, and Kyle didn't have any valid reason for attempting to physically prevent that. Because Kim is a free woman, not Kyle or a producer's slave. Kim's legal right to do so is linked to the constitutional amendments that prohibited slavery.

But Kim was not trying to leave, she had that opportunity and chose to stay. Kyle did not try to prevent Kim leaving at all.

 

I'll adjust my observation to Brandi taking Kim away from the cameras to pulling her away from having a fight or argument on camera. I also think that's what is meant when it's mentioned that Brandi was trying to get Kim away from the cameras. As in keeping her off camera and away from additional instigating circumstances so that a fight or anything more embarrassing isn't caught on camera. Basically she's trying to minimize the damage. Plain and simple. Her in the limo with Brandi not antagonizing her on camera vs. Kyle's aggravation with Kim around the other ladies and the cameras. One situation is way more volatile than the other hence the good move it was on Brandi's part to try and just get Kim home and not prolong a very tricky situation.

Brandi was the one amping Kim and Kyle up. She was not trying to calm anyone down, she was not trying to get Kim in a limo to leave and she was not trying to protect Kim in any way shape or form, her intent was to keep the sisters apart for her own twisted reasons.

 

It's not that Kim has the right to not comply with the terms of her contract, it's that she couldn't be forced to perform labor against her will. If Kim wanted to leave the shoot, no one could stop her.

But no one tried to stop her from leaving. Kyle wanted to know why she was mad at her and nothing more than that.

[kokapetl]

Kyle was trying to block Kim from exiting the building. That's why she was pushing to get in front of Brandi and Kim in the hallway. Kyle couldn't block Kim once she was outside, so once they were all outside, Brandi didn't prevent Kyle from talking to her sister. Kyle was kept 4 feet away from Kim for like the 4 whole seconds it took to clear the entrance hallway.

But no one tried to stop her from leaving. Kyle wanted to know why she was mad at her and nothing more than that.

It'd be nice if she got an answer, but Kyle wasn't entitled to an answer.