S14.E01: Stranger In a Strange Land

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is infuriating but its to be expected from Dabb at this point.

Not only is it infuriating they cut it. IMO, those lines were some of the best acted.  You could feel Michael's disdain for hypocrisy.  Seems to me they left it out for a reason. And I have to give Dabb credit. He apparently wrote that dialogue and it was good. Weird that he would want it cut.  I'm wondering if that was at the network level that insisted?

[gonzosgirrl]

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Not only is it infuriating they cut it. IMO, those lines were some of the best acted.  You could feel Michael's disdain for hypocrisy.  Seems to me they left it out for a reason. And I have to give Dabb credit. He apparently wrote that dialogue and it was good. Weird that he would want it cut.  I'm wondering if that was at the network level that insisted?

Why would they want to waste time establishing the character and motivation for the supposed Big Bad of the season when they can have an extended, overdone, slo-mo bar fight instead?

[Res]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Not only is it infuriating they cut it. IMO, those lines were some of the best acted.  You could feel Michael's disdain for hypocrisy.  Seems to me they left it out for a reason. And I have to give Dabb credit. He apparently wrote that dialogue and it was good. Weird that he would want it cut.  I'm wondering if that was at the network level that insisted?

How sure are we that he wrote those lines really? (yes, I have a highly suspicious nature especially with someone like Dabb as he has shown himself to be) Or it could just be that he decided that he wanted MP to have those lines later after the #SaveLucifer campaign inspired him to think it was all about HIS Luci. *eyes physically cannot roll anymore*

[Lemuria]

The relentless Sam-pimping and Leader Sam-ing in this ep was undoubtedly intended to anoint (if not canonize) Sam (and judging from the squeeing on Tumblr and the like, it worked for a certain segment of Sam fandom) but it backfired for me.  (Awesome, I know that you think they do it intentionally but I think they genuinely have no clue.  They always seem taken aback when some fans find it makes Sam look worse.)

1.  Let's start with what it going on in the Bunker.  What the heck?  What could be more important than finding and stopping Michael?  The Bunker crew are the only ones who know that AU Michael is here and running wild.  They should be concentrating on tracking Michael down.  Leave the ordinary hunts to the regular hunters.  If Sam et al came across something that looked like a genuine hunt, Sam could send out the word, simply say that he and Dean can't take it, could anyone else pick it up?

I've seen some posts defend it by claiming that Sam doesn't know where to start.  Well, that's often the way at the beginning of any investigation.  You start with the little you have and put together what clues and signs you can pick p on.  John discovered a way to track Azazel by looking for patterns.  It may not be easy to follow Michael's path but you'll certainly never have a change to find him if you don't work at it.

And either you look or you don't:  If there's no chance to locate Michael no matter how many are looking, then why are Sam, Cas, Ketch and Mary wasting time at it?  Certainly, reducing the number of people looking is not going to increase their chances of finding him.

AND DOESN'T THE BUNKER HAVE A DEVICE THAT TRACKS FREAKING ANGELS???  Why the heck aren't they using it?

2.  This is only one of the poor and/or outright bad decisions that I thought Sam made.  Why the heck did he bring Maggie and Jack along with them when they went to the bar?  You know it's a demon trap and you know that there will be more than one demon but you have no idea if there could be a small army.  Yet Sam brings two people who are essentially non-combatants (and Sam had no idea that Maggie hadn't been trained on some stuff as yet.  There aren't that many people there that he shouldn't know what their status is.), instead of more experienced fighters.

Part of being a leader is making hard or unpleasant decisions, and learning how to say "No."  As it, "No, you can't come with us.  It wouldn't be safe for you and it would make it more difficult and dangerous for us."  And then put up with it when Maggie and Jack accuse him of putting them at the--oh, I don't know--kiddie table.

Which might actually have given Sam some insight into how Dean has felt.

3.  At least it's good to see that holier-than-thou Sam from the early part of season 11 had disappeared.  Sam's plan appeared to be:  Go in alone and then have your small group come bursting in and--drum roll--blow all of the hosts to smithereens.  If any of them were alive when Sam got there, he certainly made sure they weren't by the time he left.  We saw all their bodies drop bonelessly to the ground when the demons left.  And that's the last we heard of them.  No one seemed to care.

If they're going to shoot at the demons, why weren't they using bullets with the Circle of Solomon on them?  You know, to keep the demons trapped so they could exorcise them?  They don't even appear to have thought of using an exorcism in any way.

4.  IMO, Sam arrogance and ego were on display.  It's easy to hand-wave things and say they don't matter, but in a fictional construct everything the writer puts in there tells us something about the characters.  "Yessir" and "Chief" might seem small potatoes but the fact that Sam doesn't stop that or look resigned (indicating that he'd tried to stop that but they kept doing it anyway) tells me he doesn't have a problem with it.  Would Dean, whom we are constantly told lately is bossy and overbearing (and, oh, yeah, Mr. Dabb, suffocating), let them call him that?  I seriously doubt it.

And then we get to the bar scene.  It isn't just that it was over-the-top pimping, it's that the show let it stand as if we're supposed to buy it.  I would have thought a lot better of Sam (and the writers!) if Sam had rolled his eyes, looked bored and something along the lines of, "Yeah, yeah.  I walk on water, too, didn't you know? And if I didn't know you wanted something from me before, I sure as hell do now."

After that, we have the whole "Hell doesn't get to do anything I don't want it to" business.  The problem for me is that Sam did not even say that with a hint of irony.  It sounded as if he genuinely thought he could tell Hell what it could do and/or that he could stop them.  He seemed to be clueless that he was alive because of a fluke, because Rudyard was a cat in his former life and easily distracted and because the other demons were either too new or too bottom of the barrel to even think of using demonic powers.  They were being held at gunpoint.  Why the heck should guns bother demons?  

5.  Why did Sam not burn Lucifer's vessel?????  Why take the chance?  We don't even get any explanation for what he was thinking.  (I'm also definitely in the camp that Nick, the person, the mind, the memories, the soul, is well and truly gone.  Only his physical form was reconstructed.  Not, of course, that there was any reason to reconstruct Nick, who was falling to pieces trying to contain Lucifer; Luci could have been tied to any vessel.)

 

For me, not an auspicious beginning for Sam the Leader.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Res said:

How sure are we that he wrote those lines really? (yes, I have a highly suspicious nature especially with someone like Dabb as he has shown himself to be) Or it could just be that he decided that he wanted MP to have those lines later after the #SaveLucifer campaign inspired him to think it was all about HIS Luci. *eyes physically cannot roll anymore*

Well, fair enough, that maybe he didn't write those words, but his name is on the script.  But now that you mention it, it sounds a lot more like Steve Yockey dialogue..

[AwesomO4000]

10 hours ago, Lemuria said:

(Awesome, I know that you think they do it intentionally

Mostly yes, I do... It makes more logical sense to me that way. (And I think my discussion over in the "Bitch Vs Jerk" thread explains my reasoning pretty well.)

As for the questionable leadership choices you mentioned... those might have a purpose, too. We'll see later if it comes into play.

Edited October 17, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[Lemuria]

10 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

As for the questionable leadership choices you mentioned... those might have a purpose, too. We'll see later if it comes into play.

Thou hast intrigued me, O Great and Awesome Awesome (OK, that's confusing. :).  What do you think they have in mind, if you don't mind my asking?

[Icarus]

I have been mulling over this episode for a few days. For most of the hiatus I have been “rolling my eyes” at the frantic worry from people on how much and who and what we were going to get in Season 14. However there are times that the writing takes me out of the story totally – I don't mean the bad storyline episodes but like this one when Sam was called “chief” and “boss” I gotto say I was like um.........huh. It's not that I don't want Sam to have a good storyline but way to go OTTP writers IMO of course! Also Mary being all sympatico rubbed me up the wrong way, we get an almost whole episode of her being caring and gooey eyed at Sam and the others, just no that is not how she has been written last season so I still don't like her, guess if she is going to be a major part of the season I might start to feel differently (but I doubt it!). I did see it as being fairly organic for Sam to be leader BUT as I have said it was just written that I felt I was being brained by a sledgehammer. I thought Jensen was great as Michael but I am hoping he will be Dean soon as I missed him, Supernatural just doesn't work well for me without him and the Michael/Vampire storyline is another “what really”!!! Unfortunately I did not enjoy it enough to watch again although I might try and give it a go before watching episode 2.

[AwesomO4000]

4 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Thou hast intrigued me, O Great and Awesome Awesome (OK, that's confusing. :).  What do you think they have in mind, if you don't mind my asking?

I'll be taking this over to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread to be safe, because it has to do with writer intent, but maybe even more, it has to do with writer intent vs trying to buck the characters and the show itself - which I don't think works out well.

[ZennyKenny]

On 10/13/2018 at 10:42 AM, BoxManLocke said:

It's interesting to compare this episode to the two previous premieres Dabb wrote, which were both decent IMO. They were slow-paced, intimate episode with a heavy focus on fresh character development : Mary, then Jack.

After having some time to think about it, this is a big issue for me and why this premiere felt so unsatisfying. There was no DEAN character development because Dean wasn't in the episode. And since he's the one at the heart of the conflict, he's the one I wanted to see the most. Tbh having an interaction between Dean and Michael should have been given top priority. And I mean within the first 10 minutes of the episode. It should have been the opening scene with Michael questioning people, then a break to see how everyone at the bunker was handling it, then right back to Jenson so that Dean could react to the situation that he's in. Why did the show think that we wanted to see Cas get beat up for the 14,936th time instead?

[ILoveReading]

29 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

After having some time to think about it, this is a big issue for me and why this premiere felt so unsatisfying. There was no DEAN character development because Dean wasn't in the episode. And since he's the one at the heart of the conflict, he's the one I wanted to see the most. Tbh having an interaction between Dean and Michael should have been given top priority. And I mean within the first 10 minutes of the episode. It should have been the opening scene with Michael questioning people, then a break to see how everyone at the bunker was handling it, then right back to Jenson so that Dean could react to the situation that he's in. Why did the show think that we wanted to see Cas get beat up for the 14,936th time instead?

This is a large problem I had.

There was nothing really there about Dean.  Sure, they said they wanted to find him but no one actually talked about him.  Nobody said why they wanted him back.  No one said one posistive thing about him.  Or actually had a conversation about him. 

Its like they were investigating a case of the week. 

If Sam had time to neatly groom and trim his beard, he had time to shave, so the whole "grief beard" didn't' work for me.

[catrox14]

32 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is a large problem I had.

There was nothing really there about Dean.  Sure, they said they wanted to find him but no one actually talked about him.  Nobody said why they wanted him back.  No one said one posistive thing about him.  Or actually had a conversation about him. 

Its like they were investigating a case of the week. 

If Sam had time to neatly groom and trim his beard, he had time to shave, so the whole "grief beard" didn't' work for me.

This is what baffles me.  They jumped 3 weeks and didn't even have one flashback to Sam being bereft or angry or anything about Dean...I mean I guess that stupid grief beard was supposed to show us something, yet in the end it wasn't even solely about Sam grieving Dean. It was that he just didn't have time to shave because of looking for Dean (which was not shown on screen, terrible choice there IMO) and making sure all of the hunters were running "like a well oiled machine".  Sight.  I mean TPTB can spin it that Sam just threw himself into his work because he was so grief stricken....except that he has no reason to really think Dean is dead at this point...so is grief really the issue?  And if it's not grief....do they even MISS him? No one said it AFAIR...which really, show??? REALLY??

Cas (Misha) came the closest IMO to showing me that he really was all about finding and saving Dean. I thought there was some subtext to his performance, which was quickly wiped out when Sam showed up to yell at the demons and Cas was slack jawed and suddenly Dean's whereabouts seemed much less important that the stupid King of Hell business.  

Honestly, the writing left me thinking that no one in the bunker really gives a shit if Dean is dead or alive.  Or even around. 

[FlickChick]

And speaking of Cas, has Dabb forgotten that he's back to full power? I didn't see any "anti-angel-power" cuffs on him. He was just tied to the chair. He should have been able to "bring wrath" upon all the demons instead of getting beaten up by them. If this is what Dabb is going to do with Cas, then he will be the next one (possibly after Dean) to be slowly written out of the show like Crowley. Fuck you again Dabb.

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

And speaking of Cas, has Dabb forgotten that he's back to full power? I didn't see any "anti-angel-power" cuffs on him. He was just tied to the chair. He should have been able to "bring wrath" upon all the demons instead of getting beaten up by them

I think that Dabb has forgotten the title of the show that he's supposed to be writing for because, IMO, this was one of the most pathetic aspects of the writing of this episode; but frankly, it was just one of many to me.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I think that Dabb has forgotten the title of the show that he's supposed to be writing for because, IMO, this was one of the most pathetic aspects of the writing of this episode; but frankly, it was just one of many to me.

There was that interview at comic when Jensen said he spoke to Dabb, because  after Michael confronted the Holy Man he used his fists to beat him up.  Jensen had to remind him Michael had powers.  So it wouldn't surprise me.

Edited October 18, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

There was that interview at comic when Jensen said he spoke to Dabb, because  after Michael confronted the Holy Man he used his fists to beat him up.  Jensen had to remind him Michael had powers.  So I wouldn't surprise me.

I remember that, too.

[Myrelle]

Are we getting a new episode thread for 14.02?

I think that Catrox usually takes care of us there, and many thanks to her for that.

I have no idea how to do  it. 

[OtterMommy]

8 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Are we getting a new episode thread for 14.02?

I think that Catrox usually takes care of us there, and many thanks to her for that.

I have no idea how to do  it. 

I just started one for you!  

[Myrelle]

Thank you!

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Are we getting a new episode thread for 14.02?

I think that Catrox usually takes care of us there, and many thanks to her for that.

I have no idea how to do  it. 

Sorry! I worked 11 hours today and forgot before I went to work! I'll do better next week!

[AwesomO4000]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

This is what baffles me.  They jumped 3 weeks and didn't even have one flashback to Sam being bereft or angry or anything about Dean...I

They did they same thing in season 8... and season 4. Unfortunately this is not new.

10 hours ago, FlickChick said:

And speaking of Cas, has Dabb forgotten that he's back to full power? I didn't see any "anti-angel-power" cuffs on him. He was just tied to the chair. He should have been able to "bring wrath" upon all the demons instead of getting beaten up by them.

I know they should have more of an explanation, but didn't Naomi close heaven? And heaven only has a few angels in it now anyway, so maybe Castiel is cut off from heaven, and this is affecting him? But yeah, there should be some clarification on exactly what is going on with Castiel in that regard.

[takalotti]

Sam was listening to music and then turned it off, driving in silence. I feel like that means something. Being in silence and then turning on music or the tv usually means someone wants to be distracted from troubled thoughts. So is this the opposite? The music is a distraction, but from what? From having the troubled thoughts (like he wants to have them due to being guilt ridden)? From concentrating on the problem of how to find/save Dean? Or does he just not want to cover up the silence that Dean's absence has left?

 

I feel like the scene between DeanMichael and Jamil were meant to make DM seem more threatening than he’s going to be. Maybe he's just strolling through our world, trying to get to know it, trying to understand the people inhabiting it (good and bad) in order to learn from his mistakes in AW and do things differently with his second chance. He decided that Jamil isn’t one of the good ones, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to smite all the bad people he meets. Just taking inventory of the range of people before he finally makes his big move for Apocalypse 2.0.

 

Not that I have any experience with making bullets, much less bullets that kill supernatural beings, but why not make one bullet with silver, devil's trap, holy oil, dead man's blood. I guess the ingredients are scarce enough that you don’t want to waste 3/4 of the bullet's use when shooting for the 1/4 use? But wouldn’t that be worth the seconds saved from not having to go "Oh! It’s werewolves, not vamps. Gotta change out my bullets!" or "Were the devil's trap bullets in the gun on my hip or the one in my shoulder holster?"

 

I didn’t get any vibe that Sam had given up on finding/saving Dean. I got quite the opposite feeling. He’d been to Atlanta, hadn’t been sleeping (or at least it was implied), and turned down sleeping once back at the bunker. To me, this seems more like Sam is going overboard with NOT giving up (or sitting idle) to make up for playing house with Amelia instead of looking for Dean. The vibe I AM getting is that he finds Mary's platitudes useless and annoying. He can’t just cheer up and not worry while he’s looking for Dean. He’s going to be scared and worried while he does so, and doesn’t want to be told "it’ll all work out." I also didn’t even think about people calling Sam Chief and Boss, but if I had to read anything into it, I’d guess that it’s more that for some reason they’re choosing to look to Sam for leadership and he just accepts the responsibility even though he’s feeling overwhelmed because he doesn’t want to let anyone down.

 

As a Destiel Realist, the Destiel part of me is always going to giggle at lines like "I thought the two of you were joined at the, you know, everything," but the Realist part of me is kind of over other characters saying stuff like this. Save it for lines like "He’s an angry sleeper. Like a bear," writers.

 

Rant disclaimer: I am no Sam-girl by any means. Frankly, most of what Sam does or what happens to Sam just goes in one ear and out the other such that I rarely notice when his character has been wronged or when he's done something great. Similarly, I am not a Mary-hater. She’s just kinda THERE as far as I’m concerned.

 

However...

 

After Mary informed Sam that "He's awake" but before we find out who 'he' is, she answers Sam's question with "I didn’t talk to him. I can barely look at him" and leaves Sam to go 'look at him' and 'talk to him' on his own.

 

Not long after the reveal (I think during Nick's flashback flickers), I paused the show, gripped my head in my hands and just seethed "SHE can’t look at him?! She only had to interact with Lucifer for, what, months?! Sam was TORtured by him for YEARS! Are you fucking kidding me?!!!"

 

She can’t stand to talk to or look at Nick? Fine. She’s allowed to feel that way. But you don’t gripe about it to SAM of all people! And you don’t leave that job to SAM!FFS, Mary! Even Nick gets it and he’s not Sam's family!

 

</rant>

 

Cas wasn’t gagged when Kip called. I have a hard time believing he wouldn’t be shouting "Don’t deal, Sam! I’d rather die than be your bait!"

 

Sam, you wanna let Jack come along? Fine. But you at least say "I’m not gonna decide if you come on this rescue. You’re going to decide that, but only after you weigh how much you can help Cas against how much help you might need that would take away from Cas' rescue."

 

I won’t bother rehashing what everyone else said about the awful fight scene, but I will add that Mary's back was to the bartender when she leapt, and then when it cuts to the bartender landing on Mary, Mary is on her back. Way to go, editing!

Edited October 30, 2018 by takalotti

[BoxManLocke]

Sorry to dig this one up, but I'm unfortunately starting a rewatch of the season. The wife wants to catch up after hearing the most recent casting news for episode 300. I told her it was not worth it, but she insisted, and I can't let her go through this alone.

 

And wow. I didn't even remember it being THAT bad.

 

Most things have already been discussed, like the snore-inducing scenes of MichaelDean, Castiel's uselessness, the Crowley wannabe and the clumsy introduction of SuperSam, the awful bar fight scene... and I agree with all that.

 

But the first time, I wasn't paying enough attention to realize that this episode features some of the most vanilla, uninspired, pre-made, switch-the-character-names-to-fit-your-show pieces of dialogue I've listened to in a very long time. Now I'm actually curious to see if the other episodes are like this too.

 

Take for example Mary's monologue to Sam in the car. She says she has to concentrate on the good otherwise she'll drown in the bad, blah blah blah. Why ? How does Dean's disappearance affect her on a personal level, and how does it relate to her past experiences ? Why can't we have details about her feelings for her son ? And why, oh why do I feel like I could lift the entire monologue off this scene and apply it to literally any other piece of media that has dialogue and features a missing character and it wouldn't even feel out of place ?

Another one is Jack feeling sorry for himself at the end and monologuing to Castiel. Now it's a tiny bit more personal as he says that when he had powers before he could at least do something (which is not exactly mind-blowing writing to begin with and more like stating the goddamn obvious as if we were a bunch of 8 years old). But why is he that depressed ? It never felt to me like he enjoyed having powers. He always seemed to want to get closer to humans. And again, take this monologue and apply it anywhere else and it works, because it never uses the character's specifities to generate some unique dialogue. It's just about extremely shallow drama.

 

Those are just example. There isn't a single piece of dialogue that positively stuck out to me.

 

It's just sad how Dabb is going through the motions in this one, and just in general really. He doesn't care.

 

And thinking about the entire season so far, I'm just going to make a bold claim : The only storyline that feels somewhat genuine is Nick's. Not because it has more potential to be interesting or because it's better acted or whatever. In fact I don't give a rat's ass about this one, as it got past its expiration date somewhere around 2012.

But it still feels right as a Supernatural storyline, because it's something BuckLeming actually want to do. And it shows in the writing.
The other writers who I feel have their own visions are Yockey, but he's stuck making mostly standalones (which he's not very good at as nobody's reigning in his crazy) and Berens, who unfortunately mostly still wants Wayward Sisters.

Dabb though ? He doesn't want to be doing any of this, and as a result he's just fine half-assing everything and catering to this imaginary group of fans, the ones who can't bear to see Dean be somebody else for more than a couple of episodes, who want ALL the characters back and are only concerned about cheap drama and having their fav actors on screen every thursday night.

There's no one at the top or simply in a senior position who cares about the main characters. They're either pushing their own agenda, or stuck on autopilot.

 

The show isn't getting any better until a major shake up happens up top. So probably never.

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[The Companion]

Welp, it was all the stuff I worried about. I hate Deachel. I want to watch Dean and Sam. MP is back, so Lucifer is probably not gone. Sigh.

There was some good for me. I liked exhausted Sam and I kinda liked the AU hunters (though I doubt they would actually hunt). 

I am struggling to get excited for S14 based on this episode, though. 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

Welp, it was all the stuff I worried about. I hate Deachel. I want to watch Dean and Sam. MP is back, so Lucifer is probably not gone. Sigh.

There was some good for me. I liked exhausted Sam and I kinda liked the AU hunters (though I doubt they would actually hunt). 

I am struggling to get excited for S14 based on this episode, though. 

Spoiler alert.

Spoiler

It gets worse. So, so much worse. ETA: although since you enjoy the nougat baby, this season will likely be right up your alley.

Eta: You mean you didn't get all fluttery when Sam yelled a room full of demons back to Hell? The same demons that just beat up a re-powered  angel,  but beat feet when a human raised his voice at them? Was it this episode that Jack expressed how he'd be okay with sacrificing Dean for the greater good? You know, the thing Dean was vilified for suggesting about the spawn of Satan? Cuz that was a joy. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Spoiler alert.

  Hide contents

It gets worse. So, so much worse. ETA: although since you enjoy the nougat baby, this season will likely be right up your alley.

Eta: You mean you didn't get all fluttery when Sam yelled a room full of demons back to Hell? The same demons that just beat up a re-powered  angel,  but beat feet when a human raised his voice at them? Was it this episode that Jack expressed how he'd be okay with sacrificing Dean for the greater good? You know, the thing Dean was vilified for suggesting about the spawn of Satan? Cuz that was a joy. 

*gag* I forgot how much I hated this episode but I think that I blocked it from memory largely because of the moments that you mentioned. Then again I don't remember much of this season since it was an enormous train wreck from start to finish IMO. At least I got to see Jensen all dolled up which is always a treat.

[Myrelle]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Spoiler alert.

  Hide contents

It gets worse. So, so much worse. ETA: although since you enjoy the nougat baby, this season will likely be right up your alley.

Eta: You mean you didn't get all fluttery when Sam yelled a room full of demons back to Hell? The same demons that just beat up a re-powered  angel,  but beat feet when a human raised his voice at them? Was it this episode that Jack expressed how he'd be okay with sacrificing Dean for the greater good? You know, the thing Dean was vilified for suggesting about the spawn of Satan? Cuz that was a joy. 

Yeah, this was the season that explained it all, IMO.

And when I say that I mean why it ended when it did-even though the network would have kept it going for at least two more seasons.

And it started right here with this one and yet more so much unfulfilled potential where a meaty Dean sl was concerned. 

This season epitomized those words AFAIC-unfulfilled potential, that is-and *I* think *someone* just simply had it up to their eyeballs with that particular failure/facet/aspect of the writing for this show. 

And I'll stand by that thought forever, and even more so, as time goes by. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[FlickChick]

This reminds me that I have all the title cards from S1-S15 except THIS 14th SEASON as wallpapers for my computer rotating as screensavers. I was so incensed by this premiere, this travesty and waste of a potentially fabulous character, that I wouldn't put the"Michael's wings" title card as a daily reminder of the asshole that is Dabb. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by FlickChick