S07.E15: Last Chance for Romance

[gonecrackers]

2 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Can you elaborate on the bolded a bit more, GONECRACKERS?  I missed that particular episode and I have seen that comment that Dave made about said gym guy being referenced quite a bit.  Was he just an acquaintance of Dave's?  Had Amber had an actual relationship with 'gym guy' or was it a one night stand type of thing?  I could maybe understand Dave being so upset if it had been an actual friend, but just some random  dude acquaintance?  At 36 and 37 both of them are going to have a sexual history.

Good questions; I'd love to know answers as well.

It was on the honeymoon where Amber was upfront about having been with some guy from their gym. Dave realized he knew him, & that he had even heard the guy talking while they were together - presumably about Amber. So I guess it was a 'relationship', or they were together for a bit at least.

So I forget his exact comment but this bothered Dave very much & he said had he known he would've backed out (of the marriage).  I keep going back to that in my head because I believe that has influenced his behavior toward Amber. Of course she picks up on it & it's been all downhill from there.

[LuvMyShows]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Amber's earned her right to be insecure after a string of "Dallas douches".  

Well, there's a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  I can't help but think that applies to Amber when I hear her talk about her repeated bad experiences with Dallas douches.  If all she meant was that she went on one date with a string of guys who all turned out to be not what they had seemed after an initial brief meeting, then I might have sympathy.  But I get the impression that she is referring to actual relationships, so I'm guessing her picker is broken.

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Over the course of my now 60 year old life I've realized that everyone has similar emotions in similar situations it's just that some people are better at hiding it (even from themselves) than others. 

Gotta disagree here.  Sadists enjoy others' suffering, and sociopaths don't care about others' suffering.  They are not experiencing the same emotions that most people would experience in watching other people suffer.  Also, look at the nation's reactions to the OJ Simpson verdict...that was decidedly not a case of everyone experiencing the same emotion but certain races being better at hiding whatever it was that they had identically emotionally experienced.  Nor is everybody experiencing similar reactions to all the sexual harassment stuff going on and it's just that some people are better at hiding it.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Well, there's a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  I can't help but think that applies to Amber when I hear her talk about her repeated bad experiences with Dallas douches.  If all she meant was that she went on one date with a string of guys who all turned out to be not what they had seemed after an initial brief meeting, then I might have sympathy.  But I get the impression that she is referring to actual relationships, so I'm guessing her picker is broken.

I still wouldn't put the blame on her or make guesses as to the accuracy of her "picker".  There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing out there.  She may not have been as serious about settling down when she was younger and now that she is and is 36+ the pool of good prospects has gotten smaller, plus a lot of men in her age bracket are now the ones that are "single for a reason".  So just being able to find a good prospect gets harder as a person gets into their mid 30s and beyond.  I see Dave as the poster child for that "leftover" guy that is single for a reason, and she certainly can't be blamed for picking him!

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Gotta disagree here.  Sadists enjoy others' suffering, and sociopaths don't care about others' suffering.  They are not experiencing the same emotions that most people would experience in watching other people suffer.  Also, look at the nation's reactions to the OJ Simpson verdict...that was decidedly not a case of everyone experiencing the same emotion but certain races being better at hiding whatever it was that they had identically emotionally experienced.  Nor is everybody experiencing similar reactions to all the sexual harassment stuff going on and it's just that some people are better at hiding it.

Oh of course, but I was not referring to people at both ends of the bell curve, just regular everyday average people.  And I really don't know what race has to do with this either.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

And Yeah No, I love your posts.  It's as if you are reading my mind but articulating what I want to say so much better than I ever could. I despise Dave, I truly do. He is a very cold, critical and anal person. No warmth emanating from him at all. Nada, Niente, Zilch!  Amber's insecure nature is only made worse when she is with Dave b/c she correctly intuits that he is just not into her. I wish she'd be brave enough to dump his ass on Decision Day.  Let him crawl back to his wall of bros!  

Thanks so much, great minds think alike, right?  I like how you added "anal" to describe him.  Yeah, Dave is so tightly wound, when he goes to the toilet out comes diamonds.  He probably has a "Sheldon Cooper-esque" bathroom schedule, LOL.  Unfortunately I don't think Amber will be brave enough to dump him on decision day (if he doesn't dump her first).  Another part of her is so ready to settle down she would try to "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" in Dave.  She wants marriage and kids so badly that she's willing to put up with a guy that isn't that into her.  That's just so sad.  I wish so much better for her.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I still wouldn't put the blame on her or make guesses as to the accuracy of her "picker".  There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing out there.  She may not have been as serious about settling down when she was younger and now that she is and is 36+ the pool of good prospects has gotten smaller, plus a lot of men in her age bracket are now the ones that are "single for a reason".  So just being able to find a good prospect gets harder as a person gets into their mid 30s and beyond.  I see Dave as the poster child for that "leftover" guy that is single for a reason, and she certainly can't be blamed for picking him! 

I agree! Dave is absolutely the "poster child" for that guy who's "single for a reason"! 

And I know at least a dozen women 30+ who say 'Good men are hard to find' after 35!!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

13 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks so much, great minds think alike, right?  I like how you added "anal" to describe him.  Yeah, Dave is so tightly wound, when he goes to the toilet out comes diamonds.  He probably has a "Sheldon Cooper-esque" bathroom schedule, LOL.  Unfortunately I don't think Amber will be brave enough to dump him on decision day (if he doesn't dump her first). ...She wants marriage and kids so badly that she's willing to put up with a guy that isn't that into her.  That's just so sad.  I wish so much better for her.

Rofl! Good one, about the diamonds.

I also wish Amber could find happiness and the family she wants with a kind, loving, considerate, supportive man. (Unfortunately, she'd have to be rid of Dave first...) 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[crgirl412]

On 10/11/2018 at 7:09 AM, Yeah No said:

I understand your opinion, but I think it borders on blaming Amber for getting stuck with a guy that isn't into her, and that's just not fair because in this case she had absolutely nothing to do with who got matched with her other than to answer some questions about what she was looking for in a guy.   I don't think that's enough to put on her shoulders.  As to self sabotage, I personally don't think anything she would have done differently with Dave would have made one iota of difference.  Just from my own experience as a woman in situations like this, I don't believe she would have started acting like that until she knew it was a foregone conclusion that he was just not going to dig on her whatsoever.  I see her reaction as after the fact.  I also think she knew deep down that SHE wasn't really clicking with HIM either.  So I believe she knew she had nothing to lose at that point by acting in what appears to be a self-sabotaging way.  Besides, in my experience, women usually don't act that insecure around a guy unless there's a really good reason.  I have never personally known any case of this in which that wasn't the case.  I am just sick and tired of the women always getting blamed for this.  It's almost like a "gaslight" situation (we've already seen that term used this season).  Dave comes off looking great while Amber looks like a needy mess when the real situation is much different.  I personally think he's communicating to her in subtle verbal and non-verbal ways that she's just not good enough and that's where her reaction is coming from.  In fact, it's so obvious we can even see some of it on camera.

They both are less then attractive in very different ways.  Dave doesn't come off looking great at all.  Giving someone the  not-good-enough-vibe isn't nice at all.  She is beating a dead horse and most men hate that and shut down when it happens.  I think Dave is acting like he always does with women- which is a reason he isn't married and shutting down. 

Out of the two, Amber's flaw(s) are much less fatal and she still has a good shot at marrying after they divorce.  The woman who wants to be with Dave is a unicorn.  Dave needs to re-assess. 

Therapy for Amber and Dave would do both a world of good, Amber more than Dave as his is far more complicated. 

[Ilovepie]

32 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

The woman who wants to be with Dave is a unicorn.

Or maybe just a woman who isn't an all consuming self-centered ball of need who has her own shit together? I see the anti-Dave contingency has taken over this forum - I had to throw in a pro-Dave comment just to stir the pot a little ;-p

[crgirl412]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Or maybe just a woman who isn't an all consuming self-centered ball of need who has her own shit together? I see the anti-Dave contingency has taken over this forum - I had to throw in a pro-Dave comment just to stir the pot a little ;-p

or her, too........

[Crazy Bird Lady]

The weird thing is, I don't think we're really "Team Dave" and "Team Amber".

There does seem to be a "Team Dave," a group of people who think Dave is just fine the way he is. But the other side is more like "Team That Wants Something Better for Amber". ...I mean, I could be wrong, but I think almost everyone gets that (at times) Amber can quickly assume the worst about others, which is stressful for those around her. 

That "something better" might be re-marriage and/or children. Or it might not. It might simply be some type of real therapy to help Amber finally realize and accept her own strengths while forgiving her weaknesses. It also might be deciding to stay single and independent because that's what she truly wants. 

One way or another, Amber needs to fill her personal life with people she can rely on, people able to appreciate and embrace the good in her without provoking her weaknesses/ insecurity. 

[scruffy73]

1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

The weird thing is, I don't think we're really "Team Dave" and "Team Amber".

There does seem to be a "Team Dave," a group of people who think Dave is just fine the way he is. But the other side is more like "Team That Wants Something Better for Amber". ...I mean, I could be wrong, but I think almost everyone gets that (at times) Amber can quickly assume the worst about others, which is stressful for those around her. 

That "something better" might be re-marriage and/or children. Or it might not. It might simply be some type of real therapy to help Amber finally realize and accept her own strengths while forgiving her weaknesses. It also might be deciding to stay single and independent because that's what she truly wants. 

One way or another, Amber needs to fill her personal life with people she can rely on, people able to appreciate and embrace the good in her without provoking her weaknesses/ insecurity. 

I am Team “want something good for Amber”. Look, I feel where she is coming from. I’m 45, single, and child-free in the DFW area. Thankfully I haven’t experienced the Dallas Douches but that’s probably because I don’t leave my house. Lol! I have given up on having my own children (age and other reasons) but at 35-36 like Amber, I was desperate to have kids. Shit, even as recently as 5 years ago I was planning a baby with an Atlanta asshole!!!! Because I wanted a baby sooooo bad. I have PTSD from dealing with him. I’m not even kidding. Every time I see his name pop up on Facebook my heart starts beating fast. But I was willing to deal with that forever for a baby. Thankfully God takes care of babies and fools (me). All that to say, I understand Amber’s desperation and insecurity and neediness and need for reassurance. She has something she wants so bad and wants to be secure in a relationship to get it. I understand. I’m not saying anything bad against Dave. I actually think he likes Amber. I just don’t think he knows how to give her what she needs or just doesn’t feel like he needs to do “all that”. I believe he will stay in it with her and that, once the pressure of decision day is over, they can be a decent couple. 

[gonecrackers]

I am Team 'Amber/Dave may need to realize staying single isn't necessarily a bad thing' - much better than being stuck in a bad marriage.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

21 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I am Team 'Amber/Dave may need to realize staying single isn't necessarily a bad thing' - much better than being stuck in a bad marriage.

For sure. But I also understand how intense a woman's desire for a man and children in her life can be, like the poster below. Scruffy seems to think Dave is OK, just having trouble dealing with Amber's needs --which is probably the most common point of view, if you avoid "playing the blame game". 

Except, she actually seems to think Dave and Amber could work it out and 'make a go of it' together --which I completely disagree with. They're toxic for each other.

41 minutes ago, scruffy73 said:

I am Team “want something good for Amber”. Look, I feel where she is coming from. I’m 45, single, and child-free in the DFW area. Thankfully I haven’t experienced the Dallas Douches but that’s probably because I don’t leave my house. Lol! I have given up on having my own children (age and other reasons) but at 35-36 like Amber, I was desperate to have kids. Shit, even as recently as 5 years ago I was planning a baby with an Atlanta asshole!!!! Because I wanted a baby sooooo bad. ...I understand Amber’s desperation and insecurity and neediness and need for reassurance. She has something she wants so bad and wants to be secure in a relationship to get it. I understand.

I’m not saying anything bad against Dave. I actually think he likes Amber. I just don’t think he knows how to give her what she needs or just doesn’t feel like he needs to do “all that”. I believe he will stay in it with her and that, once the pressure of decision day is over, they can be a decent couple. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[scruffy73]

1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

For sure. But I also understand how intense a woman's desire for a man and children in her life can be, like the poster below. Scruffy seems to think Dave is OK, just having trouble dealing with Amber's needs --which is probably the most common point of view, if you avoid "playing the blame game". 

Except, she actually seems to think Dave and Amber could work it out and 'make a go of it' together --which I completely disagree with. They're toxic for each other.

I have hope for everyone except Tristan and Mia. In truth, I know Dave and Amber have a lot of work to do if they want to make it work. Honestly I think Danielle and Bobby do too. Danielle has to work on being the kind of wife that reciprocates whatnot bobby gives to the extent he is truly happy long term.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, scruffy73 said:

I am Team “want something good for Amber”. Look, I feel where she is coming from. I’m 45, single, and child-free in the DFW area. Thankfully I haven’t experienced the Dallas Douches but that’s probably because I don’t leave my house. Lol! I have given up on having my own children (age and other reasons) but at 35-36 like Amber, I was desperate to have kids. Shit, even as recently as 5 years ago I was planning a baby with an Atlanta asshole!!!! Because I wanted a baby sooooo bad. I have PTSD from dealing with him. I’m not even kidding. Every time I see his name pop up on Facebook my heart starts beating fast. But I was willing to deal with that forever for a baby. Thankfully God takes care of babies and fools (me). All that to say, I understand Amber’s desperation and insecurity and neediness and need for reassurance. She has something she wants so bad and wants to be secure in a relationship to get it. I understand. I’m not saying anything bad against Dave. I actually think he likes Amber. I just don’t think he knows how to give her what she needs or just doesn’t feel like he needs to do “all that”. I believe he will stay in it with her and that, once the pressure of decision day is over, they can be a decent couple. 

You may be right, they may stay in it.  It depends on how desperate each of them is to have a family.  We used to call that "settling" or making a trade-off back in the day.  The two of them are being realistic.  How much time do they want to waste hoping for the "perfect match" to come along?  If it hasn't come along yet the chances are it won't so they might as well stay married for other reasons and see how it goes.  I'm sure they're both tired of trying and the clock is ticking for Amber.  I have seen women far more desperate than she is at her age.  One good male friend of mine married his girlfriend because she "accidentally" got pregnant at around age 38.  The oldest trick in the book.

And thanks for sharing your personal story, that can't be easy to do!  It's one I've heard before many times, even lived through to some degree at a much earlier time in my life (I'm 60).   I am married many years but still child free because things didn't work out at the right age.  So maybe that's why I get where Amber is coming from too.

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I am Team 'Amber/Dave may need to realize staying single isn't necessarily a bad thing' - much better than being stuck in a bad marriage.

Truth! I honestly think at their core they are both good people, but I also honestly feel they are horrible for each other. Instead of complimenting each other, they bring out the worst in each other.  This is really a case of two wrongs (marriage and baby) not making a right. 

Marriage to someone you really love is hard (I know bc me and Mr. Ilovepie just celebrated our 20th anniversary this last May!), and kids create so much additional stress I can’t even quantify it (I know bc I have 14yo sp.ed girl and 9yo boy). I can’t imagine how much misery and additional stress would be involved trying to navigate these things with someone you barely get along with......

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

You may be right, they may stay in it.  It depends on how desperate each of them is to have a family.  We used to call that "settling" or making a trade-off back in the day.  The two of them are being realistic.  How much time do they want to waste hoping for the "perfect match" to come along? 

They, especially Amber, would not be unique if they stayed in it because "fuck it, it's our last chance." I've known a lot of women who got married because they were the age they wanted to be (or older) when they were married, and they just wanted to get married. That goes double for wanting kids. It's still more socially acceptable to be divorced than never married, especially for women ("bachelor" vs. "spinster"). 

I don't think they should stay together (I don't think either is a bad person but they're a bad match), but if they do I'll understand, I think.

Bobby and Danielle will stay together, and I think they have a real shot if Danielle can learn to be more demonstrative in her appreciation for Bobby, and to reciprocate that affection. Bobby will eventually get tired of "I love you because you do things for me." The SAHM thing might be a wrinkle, but they'll cross that bridge when they get to it.

[gonecrackers]

Dave isn't as desperate as Amber. Amber has the 'biological clock ticking' thing happening. Dave can move on without feeling that kind of pressure. This is an organic imbalance in the relationship also making a break more difficult for Amber. Dave has the upper hand here unless she decides she's just not happy & it's not worth it.

And it's never worth bringing kids into a bad marriage.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

Dave isn't as desperate as Amber. Amber has the 'biological clock ticking' thing happening. Dave can move on without feeling that kind of pressure. This is an organic imbalance in the relationship also making a break more difficult for Amber. Dave has the upper hand here unless she decides she's just not happy & it's not worth it.

And it's never worth bringing kids into a bad marriage.

I've said from the first second we met Amber that if what Amber wants is children, she would have been better off going to a sperm bank.

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

The weird thing is, I don't think we're really "Team Dave" and "Team Amber".

There does seem to be a "Team Dave," a group of people who think Dave is just fine the way he is. But the other side is more like "Team That Wants Something Better for Amber". ...I mean, I could be wrong, but I think almost everyone gets that (at times) Amber can quickly assume the worst about others, which is stressful for those around her. 

That "something better" might be re-marriage and/or children. Or it might not. It might simply be some type of real therapy to help Amber finally realize and accept her own strengths while forgiving her weaknesses. It also might be deciding to stay single and independent because that's what she truly wants. 

One way or another, Amber needs to fill her personal life with people she can rely on, people able to appreciate and embrace the good in her without provoking her weaknesses/ insecurity. 

 

15 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

I am Team “want something good for Amber”. Look, I feel where she is coming from. I’m 45, single, and child-free in the DFW area. Thankfully I haven’t experienced the Dallas Douches but that’s probably because I don’t leave my house. Lol! I have given up on having my own children (age and other reasons) but at 35-36 like Amber, I was desperate to have kids. Shit, even as recently as 5 years ago I was planning a baby with an Atlanta asshole!!!! Because I wanted a baby sooooo bad. I have PTSD from dealing with him. I’m not even kidding. Every time I see his name pop up on Facebook my heart starts beating fast. But I was willing to deal with that forever for a baby. Thankfully God takes care of babies and fools (me). All that to say, I understand Amber’s desperation and insecurity and neediness and need for reassurance. She has something she wants so bad and wants to be secure in a relationship to get it. I understand. I’m not saying anything bad against Dave. I actually think he likes Amber. I just don’t think he knows how to give her what she needs or just doesn’t feel like he needs to do “all that”. I believe he will stay in it with her and that, once the pressure of decision day is over, they can be a decent couple. 

 

15 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

For sure. But I also understand how intense a woman's desire for a man and children in her life can be, like the poster below. Scruffy seems to think Dave is OK, just having trouble dealing with Amber's needs --which is probably the most common point of view, if you avoid "playing the blame game". 

Except, she actually seems to think Dave and Amber could work it out and 'make a go of it' together --which I completely disagree with. They're toxic for each other.

 

12 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Truth! I honestly think at their core they are both good people, but I also honestly feel they are horrible for each other. Instead of complimenting each other, they bring out the worst in each other.  This is really a case of two wrongs (marriage and baby) not making a right. 

Marriage to someone you really love is hard (I know bc me and Mr. Ilovepie just celebrated our 20th anniversary this last May!), and kids create so much additional stress I can’t even quantify it (I know bc I have 14yo sp.ed girl and 9yo boy). I can’t imagine how much misery and additional stress would be involved trying to navigate these things with someone you barely get along with......

 

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

They, especially Amber, would not be unique if they stayed in it because "fuck it, it's our last chance." I've known a lot of women who got married because they were the age they wanted to be (or older) when they were married, and they just wanted to get married. That goes double for wanting kids. It's still more socially acceptable to be divorced than never married, especially for women ("bachelor" vs. "spinster"). 

I don't think they should stay together (I don't think either is a bad person but they're a bad match), but if they do I'll understand, I think.

Bobby and Danielle will stay together, and I think they have a real shot if Danielle can learn to be more demonstrative in her appreciation for Bobby, and to reciprocate that affection. Bobby will eventually get tired of "I love you because you do things for me." The SAHM thing might be a wrinkle, but they'll cross that bridge when they get to it.

 

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Dave isn't as desperate as Amber. Amber has the 'biological clock ticking' thing happening. Dave can move on without feeling that kind of pressure. This is an organic imbalance in the relationship also making a break more difficult for Amber. Dave has the upper hand here unless she decides she's just not happy & it's not worth it.

And it's never worth bringing kids into a bad marriage.

 

58 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I've said from the first second we met Amber that if what Amber wants is children, she would have been better off going to a sperm bank.

I agree with so many of the sentiments that have been expressed here. In earlier generations, most women married before age 25. They either stayed home or did the type of jobs that really did not require much in the way of education or training (though there will always be outlier women who did have fantastic careers). Having a family was the main priority and it was really not that big of an issue.

Now, most women usually spend a good part of their life building a career and financial stability for themselves. The hard reality is that we all have that ticking clock if we want to have children, not that everyone does, Its just men have a much larger window. Men are also seen as more attractive or stable the older they get where women are still judged somewhat harshly on no longer being in the first bloom of youth. The hard truth of the matter is that Dave FEELS like he has better options than Amber and Amber FEELS like Dave is her last shot, though neither of these statements is necessarily true.   

The good news for Dave and Amber if they never find the "right one" is that it is longer a given that 99% of all people get married. I have read statistics, though not sure of the accuracy, that almost 50 percent of adults under the age of 35 are single. Remaining single does not doom you to a life of loneliness as all of your friends and relatives get married and you are left in the dust. As you grow older a lot of your friend probably will not get married or have children either and you can develop a great support network. The truth is single people can have pretty good lives in the modern world. Dave and Amber seem content and happy in their normal lives just kind of miserable with each other. Amber might have to make some hard decisions if she really wants to be a mother, but living child-free and financially secure can be awesome with the right attitude.

[Ilovepie]

14 minutes ago, qtpye said:

living child-free and financially secure can be awesome

I love my family, but sometimes I dream of what that would be like; for instance, last night as I helped my 4th grader with grammar (ugh!) and then my husband with health insurance open enrollment (double ugh!). The grass is not always greener, you know? I think Amber has idealized marriage and kids, but they come with challenges too, and I don't think she has really considered how difficult these things are in actuality. Maybe this experience will help her realize that a husband is not an end all be all and she can be just as happy on her own.....

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, Ilovepie said:

I love my family, but sometimes I dream of what that would be like; for instance, last night as I helped my 4th grader with grammar (ugh!) and then my husband with health insurance open enrollment (double ugh!). The grass is not always greener, you know? I think Amber has idealized marriage and kids, but they come with challenges too, and I don't think she has really considered how difficult these things are in actuality. Maybe this experience will help her realize that a husband is not an end all be all and she can be just as happy on her own.....

Preach it, sister!!!!

I have two elementary age kids and a husband that has to travel a lot for his work. My free time consists of doing things for my children and getting to a million little tedious administrative and household tasks that I have no time to do otherwise.

I love my family to pieces but what a lot of women do not realize is that marriage with children is a lot of WORK.  I would love to have Danielle's eyebrow budget or go to the gym every day, but there is simply not enough time in the world to do those things "for me". Many women have bought into what is being sold in romantic comedies and probably do not realize that there is a chance that they might be miserable, particularly if they have lived most of their life as an independent woman.

I have had to reschedule my dental surgery twice just because something came up for my kids. I do not even want to go into playdates, birthday parties, and extracurricular activities.

[Gem 10]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:30 PM, seacliffsal said:

I am totally that person that will get frustrated and start shutting down when asked the same thing over and over again-even after I have stated that I don't want to discuss it anymore and my answer is not changing (and I'm female-not that it matters).  I think Amber thinks she will wear Dave down to the point that he'll say what she wants him to say.  Nope.  Once someone reaches the point when they no longer want to discuss the EXACT SAME THING over and over, it can actually start creating a negative response towards the "talker" that wasn't there before.  I have actually told someone over the phone that I was going to hang up as I gave the exact same response three times and the person refused to accept it.  I am so exhausted by Amber.  I think she is a nice person, but she has to understand that she cannot control someone else's emotions and responses and has to just allow them to develop their own feelings at their own pace.

Amber wants Dave to say certain things and Bobby wants Danielle to say that she loves him.  However, Bobby allows Danielle to proceed at her own pace and does not demand that she says things she is not ready to say.

Sorry, but if you have to practically beg a person to say what you want to hear (Amber & Dave), it’s just not there.  I doubt these two couples will stay together.  There are no sparks.  It’s either there or it isnt.  Dave is using Amber for sex and Danielle is .. I don’t know what the hell.

[Kdawg82]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:27 PM, gonecrackers said:

Good questions; I'd love to know answers as well.

It was on the honeymoon where Amber was upfront about having been with some guy from their gym. Dave realized he knew him, & that he had even heard the guy talking while they were together - presumably about Amber. So I guess it was a 'relationship', or they were together for a bit at least.

So I forget his exact comment but this bothered Dave very much & he said had he known he would've backed out (of the marriage).  I keep going back to that in my head because I believe that has influenced his behavior toward Amber. Of course she picks up on it & it's been all downhill from there.

Dave being the competitive tool he is, he had to have sex with Amber twice a day....(did he mention, it was TWICE a day?!) to one up the gym guy, quite possibly. 

How people judge you is a reflection of how they see themselves. Somewhere in Dave's past, or even present, he has not been good enough for others. That is why no one is good enough for Dave.  AND he's not attractive enough to be this cruel- though I don't condone cruelty by ANYONE- but you know what I'm saying? He's got non-threatening looks like he may be a "nice guy" then nope.

Side note: Amber would drive me nuts as well and she is better left in a solid relationship w/ someone who adores her (NOT Dave) but child-free. I don't see selflessness from her.