S04.E07: Something Stupid

[Clanstarling]

32 minutes ago, AEMom said:

I am truly fascinated by how many people are disgusted by the tooth brushing. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I could go the rest of my life without seeing someone vomit onscreen again.

As symbolic of intimacy and shared space and how that intimacy devolves, I think it works well. Some couples have few boundaries in the bathroom. OTOH, flossing is more cringeworthy to me.

Totally agree with the vomit. If they have to have vomit for plot reasons, just hearing it is gross enough.

[Ohwell]

I hate the tooth brushing scenes in general because they are totally unrealistic.  Brush for two seconds, sip a teaspoon of water, spit.  Now I understand why it's not shown how it's usually done because it would look gross, so why bother showing it at all?

At least the vomiting looks real.

[LoneHaranguer]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:11 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that police acting unlawfully is a serious thing.  But, even if we assume the cop crossed a line (I don't really think he did), he barely crossed it, didn't harm anyone and was doing it to try to reduce crime

In what way? Jimmy is giving his customers a false sense of security and getting them to carry tracking devices.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Jimmy is no different than many people who make bad decisions when they are anxious, angry or feel humiliated, etc.  Often times negative emotions get in the way.  When Jimmy keeps his cool, he is still is an asshole and  hurts other people, and yet still can find a way of coming out smelling like a rose.  That is until those rare occasions when he actually feels tremendous guilt  (turning all of those old ladies against the other old lady).  Then he tries to undo as much damage as he can, even though he can't heal the hurt that he has already created for that old lady. 

When Jimmy gets really upset and loses emotional control he does stupid things like breaking into his brother's house.

If Jimmy were to see a mental health professional, that process could help him to deal with his impulsive negative emotions as well as his brother's death.

Of course if Jimmy had dealt with his impulsive negative emotions long ago, his brother probably wouldn't have "offed" himself.

I agree with everything except the last line. 

 

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I still find it hard to believe that Huell would go to prison for El Kabonging (Quick Draw McGraw)  a cop with a bag full of sandwiches.

Huell is African American and has a record. As unfair as it might seem, it's not unrealistic.

[Pike Ludwell]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I still find it hard to believe that Huell would go to prison for El Kabonging (Quick Draw McGraw)  a cop with a bag full of sandwiches.

 

 

It could hurt a lot, if not break a bone - depending on the number of sandwiches, the type of bread, and the material of the bag. Also, a can of soda was in the bag, there was a very significant thump, and it knocked the cop down.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Pat Hoolihan

[PeterPirate]

4 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

It could hurt a lot, if not break a bone - depending on the number of sandwiches, the type of bread, and the material of the bag. It would likely leave a bruise at the very least. I would want someone punished if they did that to me.  These are the sort of issues which would need to be looked into. Now, if it was a soft paper bag filled with nothing but regular hot dogs, that might be ok.

I think a jury might consider that the only reason Huell hit the cop with a bag of sandwiches and not his fist is because he happened to be carrying a bag of sandwiches when he reflexively took a swing at someone arguing with his employer.  Also that being the muscle for a guy selling cell phones to drug dealers is not all that different than being the muscle for a drug dealer, especially considering the location of the assault.   

They might also need to consider if Huell had a pattern of behavior of hitting people with soft fluffy things, or with hard damaging things, or not hitting people at all.  I imagine we're going to get some backstory on Huell given the next episode title.  But we already know that Huell has no problem with hanging people upside down and threatening to hit them with a baseball bat.  

If it had been Man Mountain and not Huell who had hit the cop, I doubt there would be many people arguing that he was being treated unfairly.  

[suomi]

On 9/21/2018 at 2:30 PM, icemiser69 said:

I am about to step in it.  Hell, it is the seventh page of this thread and no one will hardly notice.  That said, Chuck acts like the stereotypical know-it-all first born brother.  The dude just feels like he has to parent his baby brother.  He is stepping in where he feels that his parents fell short.  I have known a lot of #1 sons in a lot of families over the years, and for the most part, they are all very Chuck like.  Most of them don't have a sense of humor, and more often than not they act like they were born with a stick up their butt.   Just my experiences.

Parents experiment and guess with first borns. It's pretty common for primary caregivers to groom and stroke first borns into modeling certain attitudes and behaviors. "You're the oldest ... be responsible, they watch you, be responsible, they do what you do, be responsible, you need to set a good example, you need to help us." First borns can be made to feel responsible for the actions of the youngers. Benefit of the doubt it's done with good intentions but it can set the ball in play for years and years, sometimes forever. I think the age difference between Chuck and Jimmy (10-12 years?) added to that dynamic and Chuck became a combination of older sibling and (flawed) parent. Flawed, because "his" kid didn't turn out right despite all of his efforts. 

[JudyObscure]

I'm just so glad we're about done with this thread because every time I see the title that song starts up in my head again, and inside my particular head it always sounds like a vinyl record played on a slightly too slow speed and just a fraction off key.  I'm this close to madness.

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

It could hurt a lot, if not break a bone - depending on the number of sandwiches, the type of bread, and the material of the bag. Also, a can of soda was in the bag, there was a very significant thump, and it knocked the cop down.

I didn't realize there was a can of soda in the bag.  That would increase the severity a the blow greatly.  The first time I watched it, I didn't realize that the officer fell to the ground as a result of the blow.

The case against him is stronger than I originally thought, though I think it should be regular assault, not assault on a police officer, as Huell had no way of knowing he was a cop.

Ironically, Jimmy trying to tell Huell he was a cop might hurt Huell's case, as it sort of puts the burden on Huell to prove he didn't hear him.  

Of course, it seems like this case will not be decided by the finer points of the law, but by stunts by Kim and Jimmy.

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

In what way? Jimmy is giving his customers a false sense of security and getting them to carry tracking devices.

Burner phones are generally very difficult to trace.  Even if the authorities figure out who the user of one is, by the time they do, it will be about time to move on to a new burner.

[Bryce Lynch]

13 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That doesn't sound like intimidation to me.  To me, it sounds like a threat.  A threat meant to escalate the situation so that Jimmy would do something stupid so the cop can arrest him.  Jimmy did something stupid.  Huell pad the price by reacting to the situation without having all of the facts first.

I still find it hard to believe that Huell would go to prison for El Kabonging (Quick Draw McGraw)  a cop with a bag full of sandwiches.

The cop is the one that has all the power, and IMO crossed the line.  There is no such thing as crossing the line a little.  A person either cross the line or they don't.  Once people cross the line a little, over time they tend to cross it further and further.

Jimmy has low self-esteem.  If he were a confident person, he wouldn't care what other people think of him, and he wouldn't have the constant need to make others look bad in an attempt to build himself up.   A confident person would have ignored what the cop said or tried to deescalate the situation.  Not Jimmy.

It wasn't a threat.  It seemed more like a rhetorical question.  As I said, he might have been planning on making a threat, or simply planning on letting it go, or using totally legal means to fight crime around Jimmy's business, which would negatively impact that business.

I saw it more as overconfidence and lack of self controlon Jimmy's part.  He thought he could intimidate the cop with his fast talking lawyer act.

It is possible to cross the line a little.  Driving 56 MPH in a 55 zone is not the same as driving 110.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I didn't realize there was a can of soda in the bag.  That would increase the severity a the blow greatly.  The first time I watched it, I didn't realize that the officer fell to the ground as a result of the blow.

The case against him is stronger than I originally thought, though I think it should be regular assault, not assault on a police officer, as Huell had no way of knowing he was a cop

I didn't realize there was a soda in the sandwich bag either, nor did I notice that the plainclothes cop went down.

Is there any precedent or rule that makes it not an assault on a police officer if there is no way to know it's a police officer?

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Ironically, Jimmy trying to tell Huell he was a cop might hurt Huell's case, as it sort of puts the burden on Huell to prove he didn't hear him

Maybe not. On countless cop shows I've heard the officer having to swear under oath that he identified himself as an officer of the law. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It wasn't a threat.  It seemed more like a rhetorical question.  As I said, he might have been planning on making a threat, or simply planning on letting it go, or using totally legal means to fight crime around Jimmy's business, which would negatively impact that business.

I saw it more as overconfidence and lack of self controlon Jimmy's part.  He thought he could intimidate the cop with his fast talking lawyer act.

It is possible to cross the line a little.  Driving 56 MPH in a 55 zone is not the same as driving 110.  

I saw it as a threat - or at least a prelude to one. In my own experience, that kind of "rhetorical" question has always lead to confrontation.

Though it's not typically ticketed, driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone is just as illegal as 110. But, I get your point, some things are in a grey zone (which lead to that dreaded slippery slope).

Here's one thing I'm not sure I get - how did the drug guy "get sprung" because he was using a drop phone Jimmy sold him. I just replayed the scene to make sure that was what the cop said, as my memory has faded.

There are a lot of valid reasons I can think of for cops (and the public) to be pissed at drug dealers for having untraceable phones, and for Jimmy selling them. But using a phone in a police station  - where they are, after all, allowed a phone call -  seems weak, and not particularly in line with police procedure.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I saw it as a threat - or at least a prelude to one. In my own experience, that kind of "rhetorical" question has always lead to confrontation.

Though it's not typically ticketed, driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone is just as illegal as 110. But, I get your point, some things are in a grey zone (which lead to that dreaded slippery slope).

Here's one thing I'm not sure I get - how did the drug guy "get sprung" because he was using a drop phone Jimmy sold him. I just replayed the scene to make sure that was what the cop said, as my memory has faded.

There are a lot of valid reasons I can think of for cops (and the public) to be pissed at drug dealers for having untraceable phones, and for Jimmy selling them. But using a phone in a police station  - where they are, after all, allowed a phone call -  seems weak, and not particularly in line with police procedure.

We will never really know what the cop's next words or move would have been, because Jimmy started going at him with the accusations.  

I'm not sure how the drug dealer would have gotten "sprung" either.  I think the officer might have meant that they lacked evidence to make the charges stick, because he used the drop phone.  If he had a regular phone, the cops might have had records of him making calls to drug suppliers or customers, that could have been used to make a better case, or less likely they might have had a wiretap on his old cell phone.   

I doubt it had anything to do with the suspect making a call from the police station.   

[LoneHaranguer]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Burner phones are generally very difficult to trace.  Even if the authorities figure out who the user of one is, by the time they do, it will be about time to move on to a new burner.

Things may not be that bad if Jimmy's clients are getting rid of their old phones the same way as those on BB, but even if all the cops have is a pristine burner, then they're no worse off than before. Jimmy is selling to cautious people.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Things may not be that bad if Jimmy's clients are getting rid of their old phones the same way as those on BB, but even if all the cops have is a pristine burner, then they're no worse off than before. Jimmy is selling to cautious people.

I think the implication of the show is that Jimmy gave many of them the idea of using disposable pay as you go phones to be able to hide their call histories from the police.    He was also aggressively marketing them to criminals.

In the end, even if Jimmy stopped selling them on the streets, I'm sure the criminals would find another source.  The could just buy them in cell phone stores, and if they are camera shy, pay some flunkies to go in and buy them.  Jimmy's business made it more convenient, though.

[PeterPirate]

Gahh, we're just a few hours away from the next episode, and I still cannot come up with a viable (ie, legal, non-race-card-playing) idea about what Kim is going to do with all those office supplies.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by PeterPirate

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

We will never really know what the cop's next words or move would have been, because Jimmy started going at him with the accusations.  

Hmmm. . . maybe that was why Jimmy went on the verbal offensive. Jimmy didn't give the cop a chance to give him a direct command to stop doing business there or to check for the permits and licenses Jimmy claimed he had.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Hmmm. . . maybe that was why Jimmy went on the verbal offensive. Jimmy didn't give the cop a chance to give him a direct command to stop doing business there or to check for the permits and licenses Jimmy claimed he had.

I hadn't considered that Jimmy might have lied about having all his permits and collecting sales tax.  It is possible. 

But, assuming he did have his legal duck in a row, I don't think the cop had that authority to give him a lawful, direct command to stop doing business there.  The way the officer acted, it seemed like he knew he couldn't just order Jimmy to leave.  If he could, I think he would have done that.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

We will never really know what the cop's next words or move would have been, because Jimmy started going at him with the accusations.  

I'm not sure how the drug dealer would have gotten "sprung" either.  I think the officer might have meant that they lacked evidence to make the charges stick, because he used the drop phone.  If he had a regular phone, the cops might have had records of him making calls to drug suppliers or customers, that could have been used to make a better case, or less likely they might have had a wiretap on his old cell phone.   

I doubt it had anything to do with the suspect making a call from the police station.   

Yes, that would be one of the valid reasons I referred to, I didn't seriously think it had anything to do with the suspect making a call, but that is what the wording implied, Which is why it stuck out as strange for me.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Hmmm. . . maybe that was why Jimmy went on the verbal offensive. Jimmy didn't give the cop a chance to give him a direct command to stop doing business there or to check for the permits and licenses Jimmy claimed he had.

Huh, now that's interesting idea that never occurred to me. On the other hand, Jimmy's had his fair share of run ins with cops from the Slipping Jimmy days, so he probably has a knee jerk reaction in any case (even as Gene, at the mall).

[SunnyBeBe]

On 9/21/2018 at 4:30 PM, icemiser69 said:

I am about to step in it.  Hell, it is the seventh page of this thread and no one will hardly notice.  That said, Chuck acts like the stereotypical know-it-all first born brother.  The dude just feels like he has to parent his baby brother.  He is stepping in where he feels that his parents fell short.  I have known a lot of #1 sons in a lot of families over the years, and for the most part, they are all very Chuck like.  Most of them don't have a sense of humor, and more often than not they act like they were born with a stick up their butt.   Just my experiences.

I was never fond of Chuck, despite Jimmy's antics.  I'm not sure if it was due to him being the first born or not.  I'm a first born, though not male and though, not controlling, I can be quite bossy.  And, have been accused of acting like I was born with a stick up my butt, though, not by my siblings. They love me and I them, but, we respect the other's privacy. lol  Oh, and I like to laugh too.  

14 hours ago, suomi said:

Parents experiment and guess with first borns. It's pretty common for primary caregivers to groom and stroke first borns into modeling certain attitudes and behaviors. "You're the oldest ... be responsible, they watch you, be responsible, they do what you do, be responsible, you need to set a good example, you need to help us." First borns can be made to feel responsible for the actions of the youngers. Benefit of the doubt it's done with good intentions but it can set the ball in play for years and years, sometimes forever. I think the age difference between Chuck and Jimmy (10-12 years?) added to that dynamic and Chuck became a combination of older sibling and (flawed) parent. Flawed, because "his" kid didn't turn out right despite all of his efforts. 

My baby brother is 11 years younger than me and I really did take care of him, when he was younger.  Things change when you go away to college though.  And by the time you are both mature adults, it's a much different dynamic, imo.  

I got the feeling that Jimmy was more like Chuck's caretaker.

[Juliegirlj]

This character backstory is so tragic !! Jimmy will cut off his nose to spite his face. 

Despite the fact that Mike seems to have developed a mutual respect/ friendship with the German foreman- I can’t help but think that when the lab is complete the team will take one last truck ride into infinity. 

Interesting that with the right support and treatment Hector may have regained all his faculties. Not Gus’s plan though. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Interesting that with the right support and treatment Hector may have regained all his faculties. Not Gus’s plan though

But all the high-priced therapy in the world was never going to rehabilitate Hector's heart of stone or thirst for evil.

[Tikichick]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:09 PM, icemiser69 said:

But of all the phobias to have in the world, why would Chuck have that particular one?

I was just assuming that Chuck had some bad experience with electricity.  Similar to how some people have a fear of thunderstorms, because they may have had a bad experience of being left home alone as a child during a really bad storm.   Those children feeling vulnerable, because they have nowhere to go and nowhere to hide, just forced to wait the storm out, alone.  No control over their circumstances. 

Chuck had no control over his irrational fear of electricity/batteries.  It was irrational, Chuck knew it was irrational.  Still, Chuck couldn't permanently get past those psychological uncontrollable demons.

IMO it was the human psyche flailing around, battening down the hatches.  Chuck wasn't rationally figuring out an avoidance technique, it was thrust upon him when his psyche was overwhelmed at whatever it was he couldn't face.