S06.E19: The Geek Interpreter

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 9/6/2018 at 9:53 AM, Clanstarling said:

Thank you for putting in the actor's name. Didn't know who was being referenced. And oddly, still don't. This episode didn't really hold my attention and while I can recognize Schnetzer (thank you IMDB), I cannot place him in the episode. I must have been doing something while he was on.

He was the insurance guy with the beard who argued that he wouldn't be trying to sell his boat if he had a scheme to make a lot of money.

[Clanstarling]

25 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

He was the insurance guy with the beard who argued that he wouldn't be trying to sell his boat if he had a scheme to make a lot of money.

Ah, thanks. I think for some strange reason I was paying more attention to the sailboat...

[basil]

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Oh well, my brain is no longer what it used to be since I couldn't remember who Athena was. My excuse is that the episode title had me thrown off my game. BBC Sherlock had already used the G(r)eek Interpreter joke (although not as episode title) - I admit it's a good joke but it still baffled me that they would go there too.

Actually, Elementary has referenced The Greek Interpreter as well. Unless I am remembering incorrectly, Sherlock told Joan that Miss Hudson was a Greek interpreter. I'm not surprised that Elementary "would go there", since BBC's Sherlock already had (they are using the same source material, after all). I was a little suprised (although delighted) that Elementary used it twice.

Quote

Thank you for putting in the actor's [Schnetzer] name. Didn't know who was being referenced.

I did, right away. He really hasn't changed much. On Another World, he (Cass Winthrop), Linda Dano (Felicia Gallant), and Brent Collins (Wallingford) had madcap adventures. When Brent Collins, a dwarf, died suddenly from complicatons of Marfan's syndrome, the show had a memorial for his character, which Cass officiated. At the end of the episode (shown at the  6:00 mark here) Schnetzer and Dano stepped out of character to speak of their personal loss of their beloved colleague. Wallingford/Collins Memorial.

[SomeTameGazelle]

6 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Ah, thanks. I think for some strange reason I was paying more attention to the sailboat...

I recognized his voice long before he got around to mentioning the boat, so my only distraction was admiring the beard.

[dargosmydaddy]

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I thought they did a good job of "hanging a lantern on it" by 1) having them be adults close in age, 2) having them both attracted to each other, and, most importantly, 3) having the professor verbally acknowledge that he was waiting until they were no longer in a teacher-student situation to (maybe) make a move. Plus, reruns of Numb3rs just started airing on H&I in which young mathematics professor Charlie Epps and his former grad student eventually live happily ever after. But, as @MISTERGLASS just pointed out, he should've taken a page from Charlie and Amita's play book with:

  QUOTE

 He should have encouraged her to study under a different professor, with an excuse like he had another project and couldn't support her work.

I would have to rewatch the episode to recall the various things that made me raise my eyebrows (and I'm not going to do that), but I did find it inappropriate/ creepy that he was so obvious with his infatuation with this woman that all his other students knew it (hence why the FBI came calling). I mean, sure, it worked out OK because she ended up liking him, too, but what if she hadn't? And the fact that she did end up liking him kind of rubbed me the wrong way, too, as it's normalizing the expectation that behavior like Harlan's will result in a "win" in the end. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it. I have no issue with it age-wise, or with him approaching her after she's no longer his student, but the whole over-the-top pining for her to the point where others perceive it as favoritism, etc. just seemed wrong.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I would have to rewatch the episode to recall the various things that made me raise my eyebrows (and I'm not going to do that), but I did find it inappropriate/ creepy that he was so obvious with his infatuation with this woman that all his other students knew it (hence why the FBI came calling). I mean, sure, it worked out OK because she ended up liking him, too, but what if she hadn't? And the fact that she did end up liking him kind of rubbed me the wrong way, too, as it's normalizing the expectation that behavior like Harlan's will result in a "win" in the end. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it. I have no issue with it age-wise, or with him approaching her after she's no longer his student, but the whole over-the-top pining for her to the point where others perceive it as favoritism, etc. just seemed wrong.

I just assumed that since we eventually learn that Lily liked Harlan too, that they were both deriving romantic energy from the forbidden aspect of their situation. Harlan tells Sherlock and Joan, "I got a warning from the Dean of Mathematics a couple weeks ago. Apparently, some students and faculty had taken notice and complained"--not that Lily complained.
And there was nothing in the script to indicate that she wanted to complain, rather, Sherlock later states, "It was obvious that your feelings for her were going to be reciprocated when she went to study the work you did for FEMA. She didn't go there because she liked mathematics. She went there because she liked you."
While IRL I wouldn't likely agree with Sherlock's assessment of Lily's feelings for Harlan, in this show, I assume we are supposed to believe it because Sherlock deduced it.
 

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

While IRL I wouldn't likely agree with Sherlock's assessment of Lily's feelings for Harlan, in this show, I assume we are supposed to believe it because Sherlock deduced it.

Figure at least part of the reason we're supposed to believe it is because Harlen confirms it before Sherlock relates his deduction.  Meanwhile the fact that after escaping her kidnapper/would-be murderer Lily went to Harlen first pretty effectively laid the groundwork that yeah, slightly inappropriate relation or not, Lily was into Harlen, too.

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

Meanwhile the fact that after escaping her kidnapper/would-be murderer Lily went to Harlen first pretty effectively laid the groundwork that yeah, slightly inappropriate relation or not, Lily was into Harlen, too.

I thought that Lily went to Harlan first because she thought that he might be kidnapped next. 

When I was in graduate school, professors were hooking up with students, professors were hooking up with professors, and students were hooking up with students. Depending of the subject, the professors had around 3 to 5 grad students typically having different amounts of time before they graduate. Whoever was there the longest was usually the one who got the most attention and was professor's favorite student. I thought Harlan was way more honorable than the professors I knew. That kind of thing happens when you work closely together for 4 to 5 years.

[Ailianna]

12 hours ago, basil said:

Leaving with any  appliance running, much less a fire in the fireplace is careless and foolish, regardless of whether you own or are renting, even if you can afford luxury. It's downright reckless. I have a fireplace in my brownstone - and yes, I will occasionally light a small fire on a cool summer eve, as I do right now - but I would never under any circumstances leave or even go to sleep until I knew it was out, or at least embers with the damper mostly shut and the glass doors closed. 

This is in response to all those unhappy about leaving the fire going, not just you, @basil. I grew up in a home that was heated by a wood stove, and so I didn't really notice that she left the fire going, other than it was obviously flaring high to look better.  We had no choice but to have the fire going (safely and properly banked) all night long, and during the winter, we kept it lit through the day while we were at work and school.  The alternative was a freezing (literally) house.  Thousands of years of humanity have left fires going, of necessity.  We have mostly forgotten these skills (and I haven't lived in a house heated that way since I was 18, and would have to pay attention until I got back into those habits of caring for the fire), but there are still people who rely on fire heat.  SHe probably didn't, but could still be safely running a full-time fireplace.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought that Lily went to Harlan first because she thought that he might be kidnapped next. 

When I was in graduate school, professors were hooking up with students, professors were hooking up with professors, and students were hooking up with students. Depending of the subject, the professors had around 3 to 5 grad students typically having different amounts of time before they graduate. Whoever was there the longest was usually the one who got the most attention and was professor's favorite student. I thought Harlan was way more honorable than the professors I knew. That kind of thing happens when you work closely together for 4 to 5 years.

I remember one of my professors in grad school who had a new favorite each semester and was clearly involved with the women. The fact that he married one of them eventually didn't make him any less a creep. Because he was a creep in pretty much every way and definitely leveraged his position.

Harlan on the other hand, struck me as an awkward guy who wanted to do the right thing, respected Lily, and didn't want to use his "power" - even if he couldn't keep the fact of his feelings for her hidden from other students.  So I wasn't at all squicked out by him.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, basil said:

I did, right away. He really hasn't changed much. On Another World, he (Cass Winthrop), Linda Dano (Felicia Gallant), and Brent Collins (Wallingford) had madcap adventures. When Brent Collins, a dwarf, died suddenly from complicatons of Marfan's syndrome, the show had a memorial for his character, which Cass officiated. At the end of the episode (shown at the  6:00 mark here) Schnetzer and Dano stepped out of character to speak of their personal loss of their beloved colleague. Wallingford/Collins Memorial.

I stopped watching soaps when my toddler got way too excited when she heard the General Hospital theme song. As a new mother, for some reason I decided that was unhealthy, so we began our long relationship with Sesame Street. That was nearly 30 years ago, so the only ones I recognize from that world are getting a bit long in the tooth. ;)

Edited September 8, 2018 by Clanstarling

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought that Lily went to Harlan first because she thought that he might be kidnapped next. 

She did, which is part of my point.  Her first thought/action wasn't to go to the cops or see to her own safety, it was to make sure that Harlen was okay/wouldn't be kidnapped.  So that's a pretty good indicator that she cared about him a lot.

[dargosmydaddy]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just assumed that since we eventually learn that Lily liked Harlan too, that they were both deriving romantic energy from the forbidden aspect of their situation. Harlan tells Sherlock and Joan, "I got a warning from the Dean of Mathematics a couple weeks ago. Apparently, some students and faculty had taken notice and complained"--not that Lily complained.

Oh, I got that Lily herself did not complain, I just found it inappropriate that he was so infatuated with her that everyone else noticed and was made uncomfortable by it.

But I will get off this particular horse now...

Apparently I'm the only one looking forward to the return of Michael? While I'm not a big fan of serial killer plots in general and while the pacing of this season has been very strange due to the added episodes, I did find the earlier Michael episodes intriguing, and I'm interested to see if Sherlock's PCS comes back into play in any way.

[Ailianna]

I'm interested to see the end of the Michael arc too.  And I trust this show to do it in a way that is true to the characters (including Michael) and not something I've already seen a million times, even if it's only in how it affects Sherlock, Watson, Gregson and Bell.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Ailianna

[johntfs]

47 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Apparently I'm the only one looking forward to the return of Michael? While I'm not a big fan of serial killer plots in general and while the pacing of this season has been very strange due to the added episodes, I did find the earlier Michael episodes intriguing, and I'm interested to see if Sherlock's PCS comes back into play in any way.

I rather liked the Michael episodes as well, even if my own pet theory (Michael was a criminal disposing of bodies bringing in Sherlock to help him bring his employers to justice for one of the murders they used him to cover up) didn't pan out.  Throughout much of the series Sherlock has viewed addiction as a kind of "ultimate evil" and felt the best thing he could do for the world (aside from being a detective) was to help fellow addicts maintain their sobriety.  And here comes Michael.  Who Sherlock helped to maintain his sobriety.  And Michael maintains his sobriety by being a serial killer. 

The "best" part of this gut-punch is that Michael likes and admires Sherlock and is clearly grateful to him for helping him find the key to keeping sober.  Said key being murdering young women and getting away with it.

Edited September 8, 2018 by johntfs

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Ailianna said:

This is in response to all those unhappy about leaving the fire going, not just you, @basil. I grew up in a home that was heated by a wood stove, and so I didn't really notice that she left the fire going, other than it was obviously flaring high to look better.  We had no choice but to have the fire going (safely and properly banked) all night long, and during the winter, we kept it lit through the day while we were at work and school.  The alternative was a freezing (literally) house.  Thousands of years of humanity have left fires going, of necessity.  We have mostly forgotten these skills (and I haven't lived in a house heated that way since I was 18, and would have to pay attention until I got back into those habits of caring for the fire), but there are still people who rely on fire heat.  SHe probably didn't, but could still be safely running a full-time fireplace.

Wait. Are you my daughter?

[Ailianna]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. Are you my daughter?

Not unless you are secretly a technophobe hermit in rural Wisconsin.  And if so, where have you been hiding the computer?  And the wifi?

[basil]

Quote

This is in response to all those unhappy about leaving the fire going, not just you, @basil. I grew up in a home that was heated by a wood stove, and so I didn't really notice that she left the fire going, other than it was obviously flaring high to look better.  We had no choice but to have the fire going (safely and properly banked) all night long, and during the winter, we kept it lit through the day while we were at work and school.  The alternative was a freezing (literally) house.  Thousands of years of humanity have left fires going, of necessity.  We have mostly forgotten these skills (and I haven't lived in a house heated that way since I was 18, and would have to pay attention until I got back into those habits of caring for the fire), but there are still people who rely on fire heat.  SHe probably didn't, but could still be safely running a full-time fireplace.

I understand, Ailianna. We grew up in similar ways. I, too, grew up in a house with a woodstove. My own brownstone in Brooklyn was heated by coal until the 90s, when I had it converted to gas. I had/have a coal chute in my courtyard, and I got regular deliveries of coal through it. The fireplace I have now is a modified coal fireplace (one of 8 that existed in my house, the rest I had sealed up), so it is very small. Sure, when people had to rely on a literal fire, one had no choice but  to keep the fire burning, and even when people were careful, places burned down all the time, despite their caution. I stand by my original statememt - no one in their right mind leaves a blazing fire going. 

No one who can afford a place as palatial as Athena's is relying on a fireplace for heat. Given their relationship, surely Athena and Sherlock could have banked the fire and make love in its light prior to going out to dine. This is New York. There's always a restaurant open somewhere. Safety first.

That said, I'm ok with it being literary license.

[MisterGlass]

One other thought - good for Lily in staying calm and managing to escape.  The glow-in-the-dark trunk release handle on my car is giant and hard to miss, but even without a handle it may be possible to actuate the lock by pulling back the trunk lining and finding the regular release wire.  In high traffic areas there's also the kick out the taillight approach.

[possibilities]

I do like that Lily was not a helpless damsel. Props to the show for subverting that BS on a regular basis.

Where I live, many people heat with wood. And invariably, someone's house burns to the ground every winter. Wood heat has its appeal, but is dangerous as hell, and leaving a decorative fire going unattended is just flat stupid.

[Vermicious Knid]

All the comments about walking out and leaving the fire going reminds me of a description in a New York set mystery I read many years ago, which I remember because it was so right. A character is described as having decorated her home and painted the walls with the confidence of a New Yorker who knew no matter how careful she is, she will never get her security deposit back.

Regardless of Lily returning his feelings, it was inappropriate to continue as her dissertation advisor or whatever Harlan was doing. Certainly not in this era of MeToo. Even without the ethical problems, Lily could have a falling out with him later, end the relationship and sue the school for a Title IX violation.

When I was in grad school everyone in the department was convinced one professor was having an affair with his 21 year old, married research assistant. They were practically attached at the hip, and I came home one day and went to the pool at my apartment complex and there they were, in bathing suits. He said his mother lived there and they were just using the pool but come on. I would not have hung out, in a bathing suit, with the professor I was TAing for, by myself, ever. And then: He didn't do his publishing and got denied tenure (publish or perish is real!). His wife kicked him out. He got a new job in another state. His research assistant filed for divorce, quit the program, and got a job in the same state.

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Regardless of Lily returning his feelings, it was inappropriate to continue as her dissertation advisor or whatever Harlan was doing. Certainly not in this era of MeToo. Even without the ethical problems, Lily could have a falling out with him later, end the relationship and sue the school for a Title IX violation.

Well, sure that's true.  Then again, if everyone in this show's universe did the rational, ethical thing all the time, we wouldn't have a show, because no one would ever commit crimes for Sherlock and Joan to solve. 

[akg]

On 9/7/2018 at 10:31 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

I would have to rewatch the episode to recall the various things that made me raise my eyebrows (and I'm not going to do that), but I did find it inappropriate/ creepy that he was so obvious with his infatuation with this woman that all his other students knew it (hence why the FBI came calling). I mean, sure, it worked out OK because she ended up liking him, too, but what if she hadn't? And the fact that she did end up liking him kind of rubbed me the wrong way, too, as it's normalizing the expectation that behavior like Harlan's will result in a "win" in the end. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it. I have no issue with it age-wise, or with him approaching her after she's no longer his student, but the whole over-the-top pining for her to the point where others perceive it as favoritism, etc. just seemed wrong

I agree with all of this. Even if the Harlan/Lily love is true and beautiful, it was not being handled well at all. If other students and faculty are registering complaints, something is wrong. And if nothing changes (if anything, I can see Harlan getting worse trying to hide everything), the school is sending out a horrible message. 

I also hated how many times they had to remind us that Lily was no where near as smart as Harlan.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, akg said:

I also hated how many times they had to remind us that Lily was no where near as smart as Harlan.

I thought that was a quirk of Harlan, that he always had to rank/assure himself that he was a better mathematician than the other people in his field. Sherlock agrees or he would have gone to someone else for consulting. I think that Harlan could have been only in love with Lily's mind (the way she thinks/solves math problems) and not had a physical attraction to her and people would still think their relationship was inappropriate and preferential. That is just the way people are.

[possibilities]

Figures a guy who needs to feel superior would have the hots for his student.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, akg said:

I also hated how many times they had to remind us that Lily was no where near as smart as Harlan.

To be fair they only said that Lily was nowhere near as good at math as Harlen, which isn't quite the same thing.  Had Harlen been put in the trunk, there's a decent he'd have ended up in a shallow grave.

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I think that Harlan could have been only in love with Lily's mind (the way she thinks/solves math problems) and not had a physical attraction to her and people would still think their relationship was inappropriate and preferential. That is just the way people are.

Well regardless of what aspect of Lily Harlen was in love with, mind, body, soul or all three, it kind of was inappropriate  and preferential.  Granted the heart wants what the heart wants and I'm glad that Lily and Harlen are getting what their hearts want (each other), but the school wasn't wrong to be concerned.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Well regardless of what aspect of Lily Harlen was in love with, mind, body, soul or all three, it kind of was inappropriate  and preferential.

This is something that I can't understand, how can you choose to mentor someone and not respect/admire the skills they bring to that job, I thought that would be the reason you choose to mentor them in the first place. You and that student will forever be linked together. A great sword maker is linked to the person who taught them the craft and the person who taught them should be proud of the success of their student/apprentice.

[johntfs]

14 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

This is something that I can't understand, how can you choose to mentor someone and not respect/admire the skills they bring to that job, I thought that would be the reason you choose to mentor them in the first place. You and that student will forever be linked together. A great sword maker is linked to the person who taught them the craft and the person who taught them should be proud of the success of their student/apprentice.

He is, though.  Hafrlen was absolutely proud of Lily and what she'd achieved.  I believe he called her a genius.  Harlen stated that he was better at math than Lily was, which is almost certainly true.  Harlen wasn't saying that to put Lily down or even to build himself up.  He was stating what he saw as an objective fact.

Edited September 10, 2018 by johntfs

[paigow]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

To be fair they only said that Lily was nowhere near as good at math as Harlen, which isn't quite the same thing.

This would also help eliminate him as a suspect....no sense in kidnapping someone to solve something you could do faster

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

This would also help eliminate him as a suspect....no sense in kidnapping someone to solve something you could do faster

Well, unless you're a kidnapper with math sadism as the FBI suggested.  I still expect that plot to show up on Criminal Minds eventually.