The Spanish Princess - General Discussion

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

It seems the next series will be about Catherine de Medici.

That's great! That'll be interesting to watch. 

[CountryGirl]

Oh - I can't wait for this one!

I know it was very, very loosely based on history, but I loved the portrayal of Catherine in Reign. Megan Follows just slayed.

 

 

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Oh - I can't wait for this one!

I know it was very, very loosely based on history, but I loved the portrayal of Catherine in Reign. Megan Follows just slayed.

 

 

ME TOO!

There was also a series, Medici (on Netflix) season 2 and 3 followed Catherine's Great Grandfather Lorenzo and season one followed her great great great grandfather Cosmo, it didn't get much traction on here but its on Netflix if anyone is interested. I still havent seen season 3 but its on my list. Lots of hot men in it. Stuart Martin, Richard Madden (Robb from Game of Thrones) and Daniel Sharman bring the eye candy.

[Haleth]

Scarlett, I watched that!  It was really good. Sean Bean is in it too as the mustache twirling bad guy. I read a bio of Catarina Sforza who plays an important role in season 3. She would make a great subject for a mini series too. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Haleth

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

Scarlett, I watched that!  It was really good. Sean Bean is in it too as the mustache twirling bad guy. I read a bio of Catarina Sforza who plays an important role in season 3. She would make a great subject for a mini series too. 

I’m sure I’ll get to it before the pandemic is over. There’s the thread below if someone is interested. 
 

Medici Thread

[libgirl2]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's great! That'll be interesting to watch. 

Yes, I would be interested in that too. I always like when its about a subject matter I don't know to much about. I know Katherine of Aragon like the back of my hand, I have read everything about her and Henry so it is always hard to just go in and not question things. One of the reasons I didn't watch the Tudors as much as I did The White Queen. 

 

[LuvizBlind]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:51 PM, CountryGirl said:

Oh - I can't wait for this one!

I know it was very, very loosely based on history, but I loved the portrayal of Catherine in Reign. Megan Follows just slayed.

 

 

I just binge watched that whole series recently.  I had watched it initially as it aired.  I thoroughly enjoyed it all over again; caught a few things I didn't the first time and had several 'wtf!, I don't remember that!' moments.  Can't wait for this series.

 

[CountryGirl]

One of my favorite moments from Reign is when Henry goes to Catherine for help after he slept with a duchess up against the wall near a window and accidentally schtupped her right out said window where she fell to her death. He knew only Catherine could fix things and they decide to hide the body in a rug from Catherine’s bedroom and smuggle it out of the palace. They are mid-roll when Catherine stops to comment on how sad she is.

About the rug.

It was her favorite. 😝

[tennisgurl]

Oh man, a Catherine de Medici series sounds like it will be a ton of fun. She was absolutely the best part of Reign back in the day, so having her be the main character will be great. 

[Haleth]

21 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

One of my favorite moments from Reign is when Henry goes to Catherine for help after he slept with a duchess up against the wall near a window and accidentally schtupped her right out said window where she fell to her death. He knew only Catherine could fix things and they decide to hide the body in a rug from Catherine’s bedroom and smuggle it out of the palace. They are mid-roll when Catherine stops to comment on how sad she is.

About the rug.

It was her favorite. 😝

Seriously?  That’s pretty crazy. 

[Scarlett45]

I saw this about the new series Becoming Elizabeth on Starz. 

[CountryGirl]

I’m in!

Love that they cast Game of Thrones’ Lyanna Mormont as nine-day-queen Lady Jane Grey. And we get an Edward storyline. 

[Scarlett45]

21 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I’m in!

Love that they cast Game of Thrones’ Lyanna Mormont as nine-day-queen Lady Jane Grey. And we get an Edward storyline. 

Yes me too! I will start a new thread for it- here.

[blackwing]

Late to the party, but I just finished Season 2 on DVD.  Where to begin... yikes.  So many things I hated about this season.  Hack Phillippa Gregory, at it again.

I liked the portrayal of Catherine in the first season.  This season's Catherine - I know they were portraying her as increasingly desperate, but there was just so much about her that seemed so off.  Her riding into battle while pregnant and actually participating in the battle, uh huh.  I know she did ride with the troops to a certain point, but she certainly didn't actually go into the battle and swing her sword.

I thought Catherine and her daughter Mary had a very loving relationship, and yet this show portrays Catherine as cold and uncaring and upset with Mary that Mary was not a boy.  Then we have Catherine being all jealous of Lina and her twin boys.

I hated the suggestion of the Thomas More / Margaret Pole romance.  His wife died young but he almost immediately remarried to give his children a mother.  He was never single and sniffing around Lady Pole.

I know that Lady Pole did have monetary issues after the death of her husband, but I hated how this show had her desperate to obtain Henry's favour and made her the one to snitch to him that Catherine had lain with Arthur (another Phillippa invention that can never be proven).  She had been such a friend to Catherine and sympathetic to her and was at least in this series the apparent governess of Princess Mary.

Above all, I hated that Catherine gave up.  She tells Henry that she will grant him his divorce and leave... but she will always be his wife.  I guess this is to make her seem like a powerful woman who took her own destiny into her hands and made her own choice?  WT absolute F.  The reason why there is an Anglican Church today is because the Pope denied Henry's request for a divorce.  So Henry broke from Rome, and then Catherine argued for her marriage, and was banished and never saw her daughter again.  But I guess Philippa wanted to make sure that Catherine was in control?  She was the parrot in the cage and then set herself free in the very last scene?

Terrible.  There's "some events have been altered for dramatic licence" and then there's "the entire thing is made up to suit our storytelling needs".

The "Meg" Tudor storyline seemed kind of shoehorned into the season.  Meg in Season 1 didn't play that big a role, but here in Season 2, she's practically a lead.  And yet her storyline has almost zero interaction with Henry and Catherine so it was always a bit jarring.  I'm assuming she has a big role in the books, so they put her story into the show, but it always seemed so disconnected.  What was the aim here?  To draw parallels?  Catherine is a princess from a powerful family who started out happy and then gradually lost power and became increasingly desperate.  Meg is a princess from a powerful family who was thrust into an unhappy situation, grew to accept it, and gained power, but at the cost of her sanity.  I still don't fully understand her cackling as she rained cannonballs down on her husband... why would they make her look so deranged like that.

I would have loved to have seen more of Mary Queen of France.

On 11/10/2020 at 5:52 PM, Norma Desmond said:

In a way, I kinda wish season 2 never happened, so we could be left with the young, vibrant and in love couple of Henry and Katherine...

Yep.  Fully with you there.

On 11/11/2020 at 1:36 PM, brisbydog said:

Catherine would know and accept that kings have mistresses, she would not act like some modern wife accusing her husband of cheating. This was her king, and he could and would do what he wanted and she would (and the real Catherine did) look away and stay dignified

What I really loathe about Philippa Gregory is the modern nicknames: Maggie, Teddy, Lizzie and now Charlie. It pulls me out of the time period. 

 

Agreed on both counts.  All kings cheated, and yet Catherine acted like it was unheard of and that every instance of cheating was a failure on her part.  I hate the modern day nicknames too.

On 11/15/2020 at 5:46 PM, Norma Desmond said:

It was nice to see Rosa, and that her character got some closure. Henry is still an ass and the costumes are  glorious, as usual.

 I hated Rosa the doe eyed twit in Season 1 and was surprised they brought her back in this season.  I guess it was to show her growth and maturity.  But I thought it was a strange message.  "Lina, you should leave this horrid place like I did, and then you too can be happy and at peace.  Catherine, you should have gotten out when you had the chance, look at what has become of your life."  Odd.

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I liked the portrayal of Catherine in the first season.  This season's Catherine - I know they were portraying her as increasingly desperate, but there was just so much about her that seemed so off.  Her riding into battle while pregnant and actually participating in the battle, uh huh.  I know she did ride with the troops to a certain point, but she certainly didn't actually go into the battle and swing her sword.

 

I know her mother Isabella did and from what I have read she even fought. 

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I thought Catherine and her daughter Mary had a very loving relationship, and yet this show portrays Catherine as cold and uncaring and upset with Mary that Mary was not a boy.  Then we have Catherine being all jealous of Lina and her twin boys.

 

 

 

Catherine adored Mary. 

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

Above all, I hated that Catherine gave up.  She tells Henry that she will grant him his divorce and leave... but she will always be his wife. 

 

 

Catherine NEVER gave up. She would sign things Queen. In her last letter to Henry (signed Queen) she said "Lastly, I make this vow, that mine eyes desire you above all things." She not only felt before the eyes of God she was his wife, in her heart she was his wife and always would be. Divorce did NOT happen. 

She also mentioned she prayed for his soul. Again, him setting aside his wife whom he married in a binding and Godly marriage could send him to hell. 

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

Agreed on both counts.  All kings cheated, and yet Catherine acted like it was unheard of and that every instance of cheating was a failure on her part.  I hate the modern day nicknames too.

 

Catherine's father Ferdinand cheated. The noblemen and kings cheated. Catherine accepted this, it was the norm. It didn't mean she was thrilled with it but it was common. Anne Boleyn did not like the fact that Henry cheated and he told her she had better accept is as "her betters had".  

A man can cheat as much as he wants, but he only has one wife. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by libgirl2

[blackwing]

19 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Catherine NEVER gave up. She would sign things Queen. In her last letter to Henry (signed Queen) she said "Lastly, I make this vow, that mine eyes desire you above all things." She not only felt before the eyes of God she was his wife, in her heart she was his wife and always would be. Divorce did NOT happen. 

Yes.  Her story is well known enough as the queen he cast aside.  She fought for her position and in her eyes she was still the queen until the day she died.  So I'm really puzzled as to why Phillippa and this show chose to end the series with her accepting her fate and being at peace with it.  They even titled the episode "Peace".  I guess they wanted to portray Catherine as a Strong Woman who took control of her own destiny rather than waiting for someone else to throw her out.

For those who have read the books, is this how it was in the books?  I refuse to read anything by That Hack Phillippa Gregory, but I'm wondering if she took artistic licence in her book and then the showrunners took even more artistic licence on top of her already ridiculous inventions.

[CountryGirl]

The Katherine of Season 2 was nothing like the Katherine we know from history, who gave a very famous speech to the Legatine Court during Henry's Great Matter hearings.

"Sir, I beseech you for all the love that hath been between us, and for the love of God, let me have justice. Take of me some pity and compassion, for I am a poor woman, and a stranger born out of your dominion. I have here no assured friends, and much less impartial counsel…

Alas! Sir, wherein have I offended you, or what occasion of displeasure have I deserved?… I have been to you a true, humble and obedient wife, ever comfortable to your will and pleasure, that never said or did anything to the contrary thereof, being always well pleased and contented with all things wherein you had any delight or dalliance, whether it were in little or much. I never grudged in word or countenance, or showed a visage or spark of discontent. I loved all those whom ye loved, only for your sake, whether I had cause or no, and whether they were my friends or enemies. This twenty years or more I have been your true wife and by me ye have had divers children, although it hath pleased God to call them out of this world, which hath been no default in me…

When ye had me at first, I take God to my judge, I was a true maid, without touch of man. And whether it be true or no, I put it to your conscience. If there be any just cause by the law that ye can allege against me either of dishonesty or any other impediment to banish and put me from you, I am well content to depart to my great shame and dishonour. And if there be none, then here, I most lowly beseech you, let me remain in my former estate… Therefore, I most humbly require you, in the way of charity and for the love of God – who is the just judge – to spare me the extremity of this new court, until I may be advised what way and order my friends in Spain will advise me to take. And if ye will not extend to me so much impartial favour, your pleasure then be fulfilled, and to God I commit my cause!”

And walked right out with her head held high. 

Don't get me started on the inclusion of Anne and her roaming naked with Henry in the gardens for anyone in the garden to see. Come on!

[Cherry Cola]

On 5/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Haleth said:

Man, Maggie is one sad sack.  I'm sick of her "woe is me" face.

And Teddy is still dead.

I agree. That was also her woe is me face in Downton Abbey too. Not too much range there, I don't think. 

[blackwing]

On 9/25/2021 at 12:14 PM, Cherry Cola said:

I agree. That was also her woe is me face in Downton Abbey too. Not too much range there, I don't think. 

Yep.  I think it was a mistake to cast this actress, who is well known for her role as Sad Sack Lady Edith in Downton Abbey, in a Sad Sack role in this show as well.  I couldn't stop seeing Sad Sack Edith with her sad sack face and sad sack voice every single time this character appeared onscreen.

I kept waiting for something good to happen to Lady Pole, and alas, it never did.  I thought they might have at least made her happier and more tolerable.  She even had Thomas More sniffing around her and seemingly wanting to marry her, but it didn't happen.  In this show, there was no Marquess to rescue her from being a perpetual second fiddle.

Then she completely turned on Catherine and snitched on her.  Since this show played so loosely with history, I was half expecting Henry to speed up her historical execution and have it happen on this show.  Then we would have seen Sad Sack Edith face for one last time on this show.

 

Speaking of executions, in all the Tudor movies and TV shows I have seen over the years, I think this might be one of the only ones I recall that actually depicted the beheadings.  And I mean, the actual moment at which axe or sword strikes neck and seeing head separated from body.  In one of the early episodes from the second season, we saw a beheading and stump of neck.  Then we saw the sword actually take off Stafford's head.  It was quite gruesome.

With other shows, I don't think we actually see the beheading?  As a kid I remember reading about these beheadings and being terrified of them.  We would watch film in school on the film projector and when the execution was about to happen perhaps the film would fade to black and you would hear a "thump" of the axe or a swish of the sword (I'm quite certain I recall one about Anne Boleyn).  In more recent movies and shows, I have recollections of Hugh Dancy's Earl of Essex head being held up and displayed (I think that was the Helen Mirren Elizabeth series), Claire Foy's Anne Boleyn head being held up in "Wolf Hall", Natalie Dormer's Anne Boleyn severed head slow motion flying through the air, Mary Queen of Scots head being held up in I think the movie with Saoirse Ronan.  But you would always hear the sound and not the actual severing.

Not sure why this show was different and chose to show us the actual decapitations.  I guess it's because this was a premium channel show, and perhaps with the increase in emphasis on violence and gore on such shows in recent years, they decided they could.

[pasdetrois]

On 9/25/2021 at 1:14 PM, Cherry Cola said:

Not too much range there, I don't think. 

I appreciate this observation. She is a terrible actress. She has the Woe is Me face and then there's the Sly Clever face. Beautiful skin though.

Edited February 22, 2023 by pasdetrois