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Becoming Elizabeth

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In spirit of The White Queen, The White Princess & The Spanish Princess- Starz has a new historical drama in production. 
 

First Look and Casting News here.

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If Tom Cullen as Thomas Seymour can bring the swarm and the heat this could be very compelling. 

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18 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

In spirit of The White Queen, The White Princess & The Spanish Princess- Starz has a new historical drama in production. 
 

First Look and Casting News here.

That sounds really good. 

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50 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That sounds really good. 

I think it will be. After Elizabeth ascends the throne, and her later years are done to death- but this period was very interesting!

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2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think it will be. After Elizabeth ascends the throne, and her later years are done to death- but this period was very interesting!

Yeah, there was a lot going on during this time period. Catherine Parr finally marries for love and how that turned out. Creepy Thomas. Poor Jane Grey.  Even without Henry there was so much chaos (or because of Henry?).

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2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, there was a lot going on during this time period. Catherine Parr finally marries for love and how that turned out. Creepy Thomas. Poor Jane Grey.  Even without Henry there was so much chaos (or because of Henry?).

I’m assuming “future history” is fair game but just in case

Spoiler

I think Henry dying with a son/heir so young, and then Edward VI dying as young as he was created a power vacuum. If Henry has died with Edward as a grown man (or even a teen almost grown) things would’ve been smoother.

 

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6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m assuming “future history” is fair game but just in case

  Reveal spoiler

I think Henry dying with a son/heir so young, and then Edward VI dying as young as he was created a power vacuum. If Henry has died with Edward as a grown man (or even a teen almost grown) things would’ve been smoother.

 

Oh, I'm sure. They always do anyways. It'll still be fun to see what they come up with. I'm interested in the part where its sounds like Elizabeth is torn between her siblings. I kind of hope they go there. Movies and TV shows always show Elizabeth and Edward close (which they were) but never Mary and Elizabeth. Their always shown as enemies which wasn't the case through most of Elizabeth's childhood. Things changed later. But I've always wanted a show to show that part. 

Spoiler

If Edward had been of age maybe. I don't see ether Seymour brother not still trying to be the power or get as much power as they could. 

 

Edited by andromeda331
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The 1971 BBC version, Elizabeth R, started out right after Henry died, and covered this early period where Elizabeth was constantly in peril.  She was close to Edward, and when he died and Mary became Queen, Elizabeth's refusal to convert to Catholicism was the main issue.  She was constantly under suspicion that Protestant supporters wanted to get rid of Mary and put Elizabeth on the throne, and that she was plotting with them.

Elizabeth R is one of my all-time favorite BBC series, and they were usually pretty good at being historically accurate.  I hope this new version will be up to expectations.

(Since this is all well-known history, do we really need to put it in spoilers?)

Edited by treeofdreams
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20 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

The 1971 BBC version, Elizabeth R, started out right after Henry died, and covered this early period where Elizabeth was constantly in peril.  She was close to Edward, and when he died and Mary became Queen, Elizabeth's refusal to convert to Catholicism was the main issue.  She was constantly under suspicion that Protestant supporters wanted to get rid of Mary and put Elizabeth on the throne, and that she was plotting with them.

Elizabeth R is one of my all-time favorite BBC series, and they were usually pretty good at being historically accurate.  I hope this new version will be up to expectations.

(Since this is all well-known history, do we really need to put it in spoilers?)

Given that the policy has been to have future history in spoiler tags in various other historical dramas (The Crown, The White Queen, The White Princess etc), it wont hurt. Broad strokes are fine, but for those who don't know the details I would think they may enjoy watching it unravel. 

 

I did not know about the 1971 BBC series thank you!

Edited to Add: future history is a spoiler.

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On 6/7/2021 at 11:58 AM, treeofdreams said:

The 1971 BBC version, Elizabeth R, started out right after Henry died, and covered this early period where Elizabeth was constantly in peril.  She was close to Edward, and when he died and Mary became Queen, Elizabeth's refusal to convert to Catholicism was the main issue.  She was constantly under suspicion that Protestant supporters wanted to get rid of Mary and put Elizabeth on the throne, and that she was plotting with them.

Elizabeth R is one of my all-time favorite BBC series, and they were usually pretty good at being historically accurate.  I hope this new version will be up to expectations.

(Since this is all well-known history, do we really need to put it in spoilers?)

I love Elizabeth R! Bought the entire series on VHS back in the day. 

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3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I love Elizabeth R! Bought the entire series on VHS back in the day.

Of all the actors who have played Elizabeth, Glenda Jackson from Elizabeth R is my favorite.  I measure all the other Elizabeths against her.

My second favorite is Ann-Marie Duff from The Virgin Queen, also a BBC production.

I guess Cate Blanchett is third.

Least favorite : Helen Mirren in Elizabeth.  I never saw her as Elizabeth, simply as Helen Mirren playing Elizabeth.  Never convincing, for me.

And then there is Bette Davis:

 

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The Glenda Jackson series was fantastic. 

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12 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

 .

And then there is Bette Davis:

 

Not surprising! Miss Davis herself said that Queen Elizabeth I was the one person  in history who she wished she had BEEN!

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1 hour ago, Haleth said:

The Glenda Jackson series was fantastic. 

I think the various BBC productions from the 1970s were the best in terms of casting.  More bare bones in terms of settings and costumes, but they nailed the characters, especially in The Six Wives of Henry the Eighth.  Henry himself was perfection, as were all the wives.  In recent productions, they are more focused on giving us pretty people rather than what the characters were really like.  I will be most interested to see how they do with this new version of Elizabeth.

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I'm wondering if this series will consider the possibility

Spoiler

 

that Elizabeth wasn't as docile and loyal to her half-sister Mary as she claimed? I mean throughout her reign, Elizabeth showed she was quite able to be sneaky and politically profit via playing different parties against each other so why wouldn't she have been above any participation whatsoever in plots conducted in her name? Also, the instant  she found out she herself was Queen, she said  that God had made this happen and it pleased her- evidently not attempting to muster a word of sorrow re the older woman's death.  It's important to keep in mind the saying 'history is written by the winners' so I wouldn't put it past Elizabeth to have cleaned up any known references that might have shown her to be not as innocent as she claimed- and she was a dedicated propagandist to her own cult. 

I also would be interested to see if this series will depict Elizabeth as the  sister Edward adored? Inasmuch as when he found out that the Lady Mary had been  having Masses said, while he strongly condemned her and warned her of possible consequences, he did say that she (Mary) was his favorite sister- quite in contrast to many  dramatic depictions that have been done! Of course, it should be noted that, in addition to recognizing him as their father's heir as soon as he was born, Edward's tragic mother Jane Seymour had urged Henry to be kinder and more understanding to her elder stepdaughter (as much as she dared) so no doubt Mary never forgot that and liked him for that reason (whereas she loathed Elizabeth for being the spawn of Anne Boleyn who she believed had insisted on Henry having his marriage to her beloved mother  Catherine of Aragon annulled  and had been openly spiteful to Mary herself- and one can't but wonder if Edward wasn't entirely keen on Elizabeth for being the daughter of the notorious predecessor to his own sainted mother ). 

 

 

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16 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

Of all the actors who have played Elizabeth, Glenda Jackson from Elizabeth R is my favorite.  I measure all the other Elizabeths against her.

My second favorite is Ann-Marie Duff from The Virgin Queen, also a BBC production.

I guess Cate Blanchett is third.

Least favorite : Helen Mirren in Elizabeth.  I never saw her as Elizabeth, simply as Helen Mirren playing Elizabeth.  Never convincing, for me.

And then there is Bette Davis:

 

Glenda is my favorite by a mile. I liked Cate Blanchett alot and she should have won the Oscar! I would have her in a tie with Ann-Marie Duff. I never was that fond of Bette Davis in the role but it has been years since I saw her so I might need a rewatch. Helen Mirren was not suited for the role. 

And no one, NO ONE is Henry quite like Keith Michell. Hands down, the best. Though I did like Charles Laughton. 

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59 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Glenda is my favorite by a mile. I liked Cate Blanchett alot and she should have won the Oscar! I would have her in a tie with Ann-Marie Duff. I never was that fond of Bette Davis in the role but it has been years since I saw her so I might need a rewatch. Helen Mirren was not suited for the role. 

And no one, NO ONE is Henry quite like Keith Michell. Hands down, the best. Though I did like Charles Laughton. 

I agree with all this SO much!  Keith Michell was perfection as Henry.  Contrast that with the serious miscast for "The Tudors" - also badly miscast were Anne of Cleves and Katherine Parr.

I haven't watched Bette Davis's Elizabeth in a long time; about all I remembered was the way she kept twitching - twitching her shoulders, her hands, her arms.  The rest of her acting might have been really good, but I found the twitching so distracting.  I just ordered the DVD, so I will have an opportunity to re-evaluate and see where she fits in my list.

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3 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I agree with all this SO much!  Keith Michell was perfection as Henry.  Contrast that with the serious miscast for "The Tudors" - also badly miscast were Anne of Cleves and Katherine Parr.

I haven't watched Bette Davis's Elizabeth in a long time; about all I remembered was the way she kept twitching - twitching her shoulders, her hands, her arms.  The rest of her acting might have been really good, but I found the twitching so distracting.  I just ordered the DVD, so I will have an opportunity to re-evaluate and see where she fits in my list.

And don't get me started on Eric Bana as Henry VIII! No way! 

There was a version of The Other Boleyn Girl with Jodhi May that I really liked. Jared Harris played Henry. I remember liking him. He is no KM but he was pretty good. I liked that version, hated the Natalie Portman one. Jodhi May didn't quite fit what I think AB looked like, but she was quite good in it and I'm no fan of the book. 

I really enjoyed the music from The Virgin Queen-- Mediæval Bæbes. 

 

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10 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I really enjoyed the music from The Virgin Queen-- Mediæval Bæbes.

Yes - loved it!  Some people complained that it was not historically appropriate, but who cares!?  I think either part of it was recycled for the latest series on Queen Victoria, or at least that music was by the same composer.

I have liked Jodhi May in her other movies, but I agree that she was miscast in The Other Bolyen Girl.  I liked her best in Daniel Deronda.  I don't even remember Eric Bana.

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12 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

Yes - loved it!  Some people complained that it was not historically appropriate, but who cares!?  I think either part of it was recycled for the latest series on Queen Victoria, or at least that music was by the same composer.

I have liked Jodhi May in her other movies, but I agree that she was miscast in The Other Bolyen Girl.  I liked her best in Daniel Deronda.  I don't even remember Eric Bana.

That tells you how good he was. I think my favorite Anne Boleyn is Charlotte Rampling. I can see how Elizabeth would be her daughter! I hope they give this new Elizabeth some fire. I always liked the scene in Elizabeth R when she comes across Leicester who has turned his back on her and she hits him. Fire and temper. 

Yes, their music was used in the Victoria series. 

Edited by libgirl2

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My favorite Anne Boleyn is Geneviève Bujold in Anne of a Thousand Days.  Richard Burton played Henry quite well.

Oops - edited to correct to Anne of the Thousand Days.  My bad!

Edited by treeofdreams
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5 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

My favorite Anne Boleyn is Geneviève Bujold in Anne of a Thousand Days.  Richard Burton played Henry quite well.

Mine too. 

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4 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

My favorite Anne Boleyn is Geneviève Bujold in Anne of a Thousand Days.  Richard Burton played Henry quite well.

Oops - edited to correct to Anne of the Thousand Days.  My bad!

Yes, she was good too. 

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13 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

Keith Michell was perfection as Henry.

Yes!  Anyone know if this series is streaming anywhere?  

13 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

Contrast that with the serious miscast for "The Tudors

Ugh.  I think I watched about 10 minutes and had to turn it off.  Tiny, dark John Rhys Meyers?  Who thought that was a good idea?

13 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

And don't get me started on Eric Bana as Henry VIII!

That whole movie was horrible.  All the actors seemed embarrassed to be there.

 

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19 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Yes!  Anyone know if this series is streaming anywhere?  

Ugh.  I think I watched about 10 minutes and had to turn it off.  Tiny, dark John Rhys Meyers?  Who thought that was a good idea?

That whole movie was horrible.  All the actors seemed embarrassed to be there.

 

Not that I know of but you could see if your local library has it or can get it for you. 

Yes, JRM didn't even make a good young Henry! 

You called it, it was as if no one wanted to be doing that movie. 

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17 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

My favorite Anne Boleyn is Geneviève Bujold in Anne of a Thousand Days.  Richard Burton played Henry quite well.

Oops - edited to correct to Anne of the Thousand Days.  My bad!

Yes, I agree that she got Lady Anne's intensity and determination quite correctly.

Spoiler

But I hope you realize that not  only did Henry NOT visit her in the Tower after he got their marriage annulled and had his kangaroo court condemn her but also it's virtually impossible that she would have predicted that 'MY Elizabeth will be Queen' (as cool as it is to imagine her having done so). First of all, there had NEVER been a female undisputed monarch of England up to  that point of time. Secondly, unlike his elder daughter Mary that Henry had previously bastardized, Elizabeth had no powerful relatives on the Continent to champion her cause nor was she considered a martyr for her faith at that point- just an innocent toddler whose own maternal relatives had been willing to help condemn her mother to save their own statuses and had done (and would do ) nothing to help out this child. At best, Lady Anne would have hoped for Henry to make sure their daughter was sufficiently fed and clothed so that she'd survive to adulthood and maybe then Henry would have arranged a marriage to someone in the English aristocracy. Alas, the toddler Elizabeth's very survival and life depended solely on the King's good graces so it's a virtual certainty that THAT was Anne's main MO in praising Henry as 'just and good' king on the execution block rather than her sincerely believing this. 

Still, the final scene of the child Elizabeth haunted by her mother's fate  was most chilling yet provided her a spur to somehow survive and triumph against odds from very early onward (even if Anne almost certainly didn't predict her eventual rule). 

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3 hours ago, Blergh said:

Yes, I agree that she got Lady Anne's intensity and determination quite correctly.

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But I hope you realize that not  only did Henry NOT visit her in the Tower after he got their marriage annulled and had his kangaroo court condemn her but also it's virtually impossible that she would have predicted that 'MY Elizabeth will be Queen' (as cool as it is to imagine her having done so). First of all, there had NEVER been a female undisputed monarch of England up to  that point of time. Secondly, unlike his elder daughter Mary that Henry had previously bastardized, Elizabeth had no powerful relatives on the Continent to champion her cause nor was she considered a martyr for her faith at that point- just an innocent toddler whose own maternal relatives had been willing to help condemn her mother to save their own statuses and had done (and would do ) nothing to help out this child. At best, Lady Anne would have hoped for Henry to make sure their daughter was sufficiently fed and clothed so that she'd survive to adulthood and maybe then Henry would have arranged a marriage to someone in the English aristocracy. Alas, the toddler Elizabeth's very survival and life depended solely on the King's good graces so it's a virtual certainty that THAT was Anne's main MO in praising Henry as 'just and good' king on the execution block rather than her sincerely believing this. 

Still, the final scene of the child Elizabeth haunted by her mother's fate  was most chilling yet provided her a spur to somehow survive and triumph against odds from very early onward (even if Anne almost certainly didn't predict her eventual rule). 

It did make for good drama though. 

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Initially when this was announcedwithout any details I was like I can't be bothered checking out another story about Elizabeth. Moaning myself that it's always the same with TV/Movies and the Tudor period if it's not Anne Boleyn it's Elizabeth I but learning they are looking at the time involving Edward VI and Jane Grey I am in. And they are even including Guildford. And it looks like it will also cover Mary's reign. This could just be the series I've been wanting since The Tudors ended. Something that fills the gap nicely between that series and the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movies.

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On 6/10/2021 at 5:10 PM, treeofdreams said:

I agree with all this SO much!  Keith Michell was perfection as Henry.  Contrast that with the serious miscast for "The Tudors" - also badly miscast were Anne of Cleves and Katherine Parr.

I haven't watched Bette Davis's Elizabeth in a long time; about all I remembered was the way she kept twitching - twitching her shoulders, her hands, her arms.  The rest of her acting might have been really good, but I found the twitching so distracting.  I just ordered the DVD, so I will have an opportunity to re-evaluate and see where she fits in my list.

I didn’t mind Anne of Cleves, but the looks of the actress made Henry’s insistence she was ugly ridiculous.  
 

I think the actress for Parr was far too old, but I liked her. 

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